what is /lgbt/ opinion about the theory who says gay men hav

>>8244730
reported

>>8244760
why be like that to her

>>8244730
DO IT NOW!

maybe the results are not in the same leven that erlick or other "transkids" but the second best moment to beging with HRT is NOW!

>>8244730
also, don't say you real age in 4chan.

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>>8244730
what are your stats like ?

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friendly reminder that cis lesbians brain are masculinized and thanks to that they are better leaders, workers, athletes, bussine people, farmers, etc. than straight girls.

>>8247180
Lesbians should be legally treated as men for things like voting rights.

>>8247180
The same is true of AGPs and HSTS trans guys. But as an AGP with a femme pseudo-bisexual brain, I recognize that I can't be trusted to think for myself, and should defer to true lesbians and straight trans men.

>>8247290
>femme pseudo-bisexual brain
PsBi brains are still AGP male.

>>8247290
I haven't been here in a while, whats HSTS?

>>8247321
Yes, but their less androgenized than cis lesbian and HSTS trans male brains, they're more similar to cis bisexual AGP brains. As such, our IQs are probably lower.

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BFF in highschool acted very feminine but knowing him dearly it was more of a social thing, mannerisms more like a women then most trannys can pull off, but he was still interested in more dude stuff.

I think people read too much into brain-types and bullshit like that because psychologists making the point that full on homosexual males is a birthed condition is the only thing that got conservatives to BTFO out civil liberty debates. the /lgbt/ movement as a whole is using it too much as a crutch rather then realizing theirs alot of different types of faggots and its fine.

>>8247369
I can see this, i'm PsBi AGP with a masculine body but I've always been a shy nerdy numale.

>>8244293
This is really interesting but can you please speak English?

>>8247481
Just like there are a lot of different types of women..

female/male and andro/gen brain structure is retarded 70s-centric science ascribing traits to something that's way, way too broad.

the problem w femininity vs masculinity is that its definition is subjective anyways, so trying to sit and act like this is a hardcore science is just dumb. get ur heads out of ur asses

>>8249498
>femininity/masculinity is subjective
Not entirely
There are cultures that have different values for different things, but there are also aspects of gender that are more-often-than-not hardwired

>>8249520
is the hardwiring understood to be hormonal or corely based in brain developmental shit? i'm not saying that there isn't hardwiring in the whole gendered brain formula, but so often any approach that's come to this just strikes me as super, super bio-centric rather than looking at social-based things. it's also gendering a lot of behaviors/cognition

i just find it really off-putting to say that "androphilic trans men are usually feminine", "cis lesbians are more masculine than straight girls" etc. where is the actual data for this? can we really say the sample pools are accurate?

basically there may be a neurological basis to all this, but i don't really trust any study or discussion that's making these broad, sweeping statements. and there isn't really a nice way to sit and make it more accurate. in sum the fem/masc brain thing may be connected to sexuality, but i don't think it's /as/ connected to sexuality as a lot of people try to claim.

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>>8249542
This.

It may appear that there are more masculine women among lebians. As a matter of fact, there is a high percentage of lesbians, who wear short hair, for example. But they do not do it because they want to "imitate boys" or are inherently "more masculine", but rather for quite practical reasons. A rather femme looking woman with long hair would would not be recognized as a lesbian as quickly because of the short haired, tomboyish stereotype of a lesbian.
"What?! You do not look like a lesbian at all!"
That is a sentence many femme lesbians hear almost every time they are outing themselves.

tl;dr: The fact that many lesbians appear as more masculine than straight women stems from the cultural circumstance that many lesbians want to be recognized more easily as who they are and thus adhere to stereotypical looks, which are considered as masculine according to female standards.

>>8249587
Gonna further build off this bc you articulated the point better than I did (ty for that).

The thing with "feminine" versus "masculine" traits in individuals that aren't straight is that like... one of the ways that we as a micro-culture /already/ identify/express ourselves/hint to other queer people is by blatantly expressing ourselves in a way that isn't rlly typical for a gender. It's become a sorta "sub-culture" to have expressions that aren't "common" for our gender in order to better identify/distinguish one another.

If someone wants to "act" one gendered way or another that's fine and a-okay, sure, that's a thing, but to go and claim that it's got a neurological basis? It's just ridiculous. It's technically possible and I acknowledge that, but to ACTUALLY be able to truly sit down and identify WHAT'S neurological based on tired old (again) shitty 70s-centric neuroscience/standards is stupid as shit.

>>8244293
So you disagree that there's a biological gender but you go hunting for biological markers for gender? Fuck me.

Trans people's sexualities are all over the place and so are gay people's gender expressions. The idea that most trans people are attracted to their natal sex and that most gay people are gender nonconforming is a skewed perspective since GNC gay people will be the most easily noticed, GNC straight people will often be presumed to be gay, and GC gay people will often be presumed to be straight.

But even if femininity correlated with androphilia in a vacuum, and wasn't highly influenced by cultural niches as well as the need to flag your gayness in any arbitrary way to potential mates, then the reason would be less likely 'gay men have the same brains as straight women' and more likely 'gay men and straight women both act in a way that attracts men.'

>>8249754
>GNC straight people
Are there many?

>>8249775

Many in gay friendly urban areas where it's a perfectly acceptable way for a man to act.
But boardly, straight people are culturally discouraged from faggotry the same way gays are predisposed to it. So there's a gap in prevalence, but there exist straight people who seem as gay as they come, and gay people who seem totally straight.

And at the end of the day, there's no definitive 'gay behaviour' (other than sexual stuff). Beefy gay bears are just as gay as prissy twinks, even though one of these is considered very masculine and the other very feminine. There's just behaviours that we associate mostly with gay people, and behaviours we don't associate with gay people which are considered straight by default.

>>8249849
Even "beefy gay bears" always have something off about them, gay lisp, or gay face/eyes

>>8244293
You seem to have things mixed up and confused yourself to the point you no longer make sense. You should start again from scratch trying to put together your theory.

>>8249542
>>8249587
>>8249627
What the fuck are either of you talking about
>femininity/masculinity is subjective
This is objectively false. You can say what you want about 'oh but I know a gay guy who acts like a girl' or whatever, but among every society there exists a series of common traits that are defined as both masculine and feminine. Masculinity is almost always strength, winning bread, etc. Femininity is almost always softness, kindness, etc. For every single society - from the first world all the way down to Congolese tribes - to almost always perscribe to these particular set of traits of -inity definition, they must be ingrained into us as a species

>yeah but people try to correlate unusual -inities with homosexuality
Yeah okay, who cares. People already know that this prescribes mostly to the western first world. Romans and the Samurai fucked each other in the ass for centuries and were heaps manly about it

>>8250249
You need to go to school before you try to authoritatively talk about this. The same goes for the people you're trying to argue with.

None of what any of you are saying is scientifically correct or academically legitimate.

>>8250300
Are you seriously implying that the Romans and Samurai weren't gay as shit?

>>8244293
Think it's b/s. I'm gay and pretty manly, boxed for a while, train mma now etc.

You aren't born gay or straight (it's not a choice either). Sexuality changes a lot from growing up and stuff. I mean, look at the single fatherhood figures on homosexuality, it's definitely a cause.

>>8250512
>You aren't born gay or straight (it's not a choice either).
But if it's influenced by things then you can change it gradually, at the very least to become bi it not to switch between gay and straight.

>>8249542
>>8249587
>where is the actual data for this?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-brain.html

Note that cross-sex features are *shifts in the direction of* rather than *identical to* the other sex.

It is not that androphilic men are feminine and gynephilic women are masculine in the traditional gender role sense, which just goes to show that gender roles are bullshit, but they are feminine/masculine in the way actual men and women are naturally more feminine or masculine. The full implications of this are unclear and depend on how different you think men and women actually are from one another when it comes to thought patterns. I think the difference is far smaller than sexists seem to believe, but exists in a subtle fashion.

Looking at trans people is interesting in that context. Though pre-HRT trans people identify with their non-natal sex their overall brain structure is largely the same as that of a member of their natal sex who is attracted to the genders they're attracted to. This tells us things as core as gender identity aren't actually determined by these structures. Exposure to hormones also causes a significant shift toward features typical to a certain sex.

>>8250512
What studies? Nothing has ever shown even a correlation between household and sexual orientation.

It sounds to me like someone made up a study that fit their narrative and then showed it to you to try to convince you that fags are doomed to hell and that being gay is a sign of moral decay.

>>8244293
I think all brains are the same but male and female brains are slightly different due to hormones and chromosomes.
Shit poll.

>>8251695
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-brain.html
That's barely a source. The person who wrote that should be shot because the sources that they gave only linked to colleges instead of the source material inside the colleges.
There's no data in it, they just gave a quote from some guy who apparently emailed them without even showing the email.

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>>8244293
what the fuck am I reading

>>8253001
Anon no offense but you need to learn how to follow up on information. They named the researcher and where she worked.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453705/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492513/

Also another interesting thing I forgot to write in my previous post is that *gynephilic* pre-HRT transsexuals responded to "pheromones" in (almost) the same way cis androphilic women and cis gay men did, which is interesting to say the least. It shows that they're different from cis straight men despite having a very similar overall brain structure.

Femininity and masculinity are learned, the whole concept is retarded. There are no "guy" and "girl" things

>>8255634
Read >>8170856

>>8255634
There are dimorphic brain structures. We know testosterone influences things like aggression. While gender roles are mostly bullshit there ARE mental differences between men and women, as well as people of various orientations, though they are subtle.

>>8255641
there are biological differences, however most behavioral differences are learned, like you said, subtle. This is specially true now days since were more "civilized" we have better control over our thoughts, emotions, etc

>>8255664
Then we agree! I just don't think you can dismiss those differences as outright non-existent though.

>>8249542
plz kys
>>8249587
agp kys

>>8255664
A simple look at society shows that these differences are not small or subtle.

>>8255749
That might be down to culturally-enforced gender roles. After all in the past we thought the differences were much, much larger than we think they are now. Ada Lovelace's math tutor worried that learning too much math would make her mentally ill because she is a woman and women can't into math. Now this idea seems ludicrous. See where I'm going?

>>8255763
People were wrong once =/= people are wrong now.

>>8249587
So your trying to tell me that masculine lesbians only dress and act masculine to broadcast to people they're gay?

I honestly doubt someone is gonna go that far out of their way just to make a statement. That's ridiculous, if they weren't really masculine then they would be pretty uncomfortable pretending to be just to attract other gays. If attracting other gay persons is that big of a problem fi r you then wear a rainbow lgbt braclet or something lol.

From the femme gays I've met they've said they acted that ws t since early childhood so you can't really claim its all social construct makingbthem feminine when society does the opposite to boys and dicourages femininity.

>>8255798
The real answer is probably that people learn to behave in a masculine fashion the same way they learn attraction to women and vice versa for femme gays.

>>8255769
Do you honestly think we've got everything figured out now? Why? Culture is very clearly still a massive factor, as exemplified by the difference between how women in the first world act versus how women in the third world act.

>>8255837
I never said everything.

>>8249892

No. They don't.
Have you really never met a single gay person who's normal? Or straight theatre geek who's faggy as fuck?

>>8256099
no.