Stop saying MTF and FTM are non-binary. that's not what

Can't MTFs and FTMs can be nonbinary in the gender sense if they don't use "he" or "she" pronouns?
And I'm pretty sure trans men and trans women subvert the sex binary (man=penis woman=vagina) whenever they present or identify as a gender not associated with their sex

>>8238161
If they don't use "he" and "she" pronoun they're not MALE to FEMALE or FEMALE to MALE.

>>8238161
They shouldn't ever use "they" as singular pronouns, since "they" is plural, and nobody, no matter how obese, histrionic, hypochondriacal, sanctimonious and overbearing, can be more than one person. Fuck non-binary scum.

>>8238167
I feel bad for you if you get this upset by the singular "they" because that's probably the only nonbinary pronoun you'd think is actually even a real word

>>8238161
binary gender exclusively refers to the premise that gender is a variable with two options.
sex binary doesn't mean anything, binary just means "a variable with two options". At most "sex binary" would be saying that you can only have a penis or a vagina.

>>8238161
I think OP meant more the way some consider MtFs and FtMs a 3rd gender, not "non-binary".

>>8238191
OP could have been reacting to so many different claims, viewpoints and agendas that this whole thread is going to be conjecture

>>8238184
I don't care, nobody is special enough to warrant their own pronouns, and the only people who ever use "singular they" are autistic snowflakes.

>>8238220
I am objecting to calling MTF and FTM non-binary since they are perfectly within the "binary" of men and women.

>>8238223
Singular they has been in use for hundreds of years. Shakespeare used it, Jane Austen used it, the 1611 King James translation of the Bible used it, it's not new.
Also, if you're an English speaker, you probably already use singular they or least hear other people using it, you shouldn't struggle with it.

>>8238225
I still don't feel like I know what you're upset about because you don't seem to think that (for example) an AFAB person on testosterone can be nonbinary if they don't identify as male or use male pronouns
Certainly there is such a thing as binary trans people but not every trans person is binary unless you think that what hormones you take is the only legitimate indicator of a trans person's gender

>>8238223
>I don't care
>But I also really, really don't like it and insult people who do it

>>8238250
>you don't seem to think that (for example) an AFAB person on testosterone can be nonbinary if they don't identify as male or use male pronouns
They can't be FTM. I'm saying FTM and MTF specifically are not nonbinary. not all trans are ftm or mtf. but people tend to try to put mtf and ftm under the nonbinary umbrella.

>>8238267
I would agree that it's possible to undermine male and female trans identities by calling them "nonbinary"

>>8238275
well yeah, since binary trans is an actual real thing

>>8238167
>>8238223
>the only people who ever use "singular they" are autistic snowflakes.
You illiterate redneck retard, kill yourself.

>>8238287
even back then "they" was incredibly formal and implied you were referring to someone of high social importance. You can't expect other people to lend that kinda respect to you just because you want it. It's like identifying as a sama.

>>8238294
No, that's never how it worked.
You might be thinking of the royal we, which is not the same thing. And even if it was, context changes, it no longer carries that formality.

>>8238306
>no that's never how it worked
Yes that's literally fucking how it worked, it's straight up fucking derived from the royal "we"

>>8238311
Sauce?
Royal We is when the person is speaking, I'm having trouble finding anything that supports royalty, etc. being referred to as they as an honorific.
No one refers to a queen or king as they.

File: IMG_0440.jpg (39KB, 300x240px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 300x240px

>>8238294
>>8238311
>it's grammatically incorrect
>because you should only address elites that way

>>8238331
>It's grammatically incorrect
didn't say that, did I?

>>8238323
It's derived from the germanic "de" and that is very very formal and slightly archaic. the same as royal we.

>>8238355
not me senpai

>>8238349
But if the word that it's derived from is itself archaic, how is reasonable to argue that modern users should consider it formal?

>>8238339
>>8238358
You might not be >>8238167 but I definitely get the sense that we're digging down through the layers of cliche objections to singular "they" pronouns

>>8238367
something being archaic generally makes it even more formal. would you consider hertug, baron, or madam less formal today? cause I wouldn't.
And I come from a country where it's still at the very least taught as part of manners, but it's so incredibly formal I have not heard anyone but old people use it, and then only in mock formality. I would consider it incredibly rude if someone demanded to be referred to as "they/de"
>>8238375
okay? I don't even care about alternative pronouns, I'm just saying why I think They is a poor one.

>>8238384
See, maybe it is too formal in your country, but in America? Nah, there's nothing formal about singular they here.
What country are you from anyway?

>>8238399
Of course it's formal in america. It's not even in use.
Denmark.

>>8238418
It's not formal here. Trust me, I actually live in this miserable hillbilly hell of a country.
It's just a weird to ask to be referred to as they, it's not seen as rude or narcissistic or whatever.
The average American wouldn't even know about the Royal We, and we certainly don't know about Germanic languages.

>>8238435
Ah, well, good for you then. But in my cultural context it would definitely be seen as very impolite.

>>8238287
Lol, fuck off.
>>8238294
No, they has never been singular

Why anyone should deserve their own special pronoun is beyond me. If anything, we should just get rid of either 'he' or 'she' and use the remaining as gender neutral. I don't think gender has any place in modern English but I certainly do not think 'they' is the answer.

>>8238473
in 5 years:
"I AM NOT BINARY OR NON-BINARY"
"I WILL NOT USE 'HE/SHE'THEY' PRONOUNS"
"I AM BINATE AND I HAVE RIGHTS"
"YOU -WILL- USE 'US/OUR' WHEN YOU REFER TO ME"

>>8238496
Upset

>>8238167
t. brainlet