I'm 24 and have pretty bad dysphoria I'm pretty sure

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This is my face my hair is in a ponytail so you can see my face
I'm 24
About 5'10
Around 160 pounds(need to lose weight)

>>8232496
If you feel you need to transition why do you even ask if you'll pass? Are you transitioning for yourself or someone else?
Go see a therapist

>>8232515
She could be HSTS or interpersonal AGP.

0%

>>8232515
Because I want to know if I should just boymode forever or attempt to try to pass as a girl.

>>8232523
Sounds about right.

>>8232496
>>8232497
I would really appreciate anyone that can tell me if I have a chance or not. I either want to fully commit to transitioning and doing whatever it takes to make myself as female as possible or just accept that it's not meant to be and live as a man until I kill myself.

>>8232496
Age is not nearly as relevant as people make you believe. I transitioned at 24 and I pass 100% of the time despite dressing like a huge dyke, wearing loose t-shirts and jeans every day.

>>8232515
Pretty sure the point of transitioning is so other people will accept the way you want to present yourself.

>>8232763
The point of transitioning is lessening dysphoria. Social perception is only one source of dysphoria and for many this is a secondary issue or (nearly) irrelevant.

>>8232784
If this is ever a secondary issue then it's not dysphoria. Dysphoria would not exist if not for social perceptions of gender.

>>8232796
I have heard a few transitioners say that social perception is a secondary issue for them, or became a secondary issue as they started seeing changes in themselves. I think you are adhering to unfalsifiable dogma here.

>>8232805
Without social constructs, being a man or a woman is having the right set of genitals. Social constructs exist, however, so social perception is important.

Social constructs are what generate the dysphoria. There's no other reason for it to exist otherwise. Right or wrong?

>>8232852
>Without social constructs, being a man or a woman is having the right set of genitals.

There is no way to verify or falsify those statements (therefore the cause of dysphoria is impossible to entirely discern), but I would definitely reject the idea that genitals correspond with gender identity in any way other than expressed in statistical correlation. Some women are perfectly happy and identify with their penises.

>Social constructs exist, however, so social perception is important.

The social construction of gender (and it definitely is at least to some extent constructred, changing definitions of man- and womanhood being proof) does not necessitate that gender dysphoria hinges upon social perception. Rather, the construction of gender defines the ideal body and gender expression one has, but this ideal can be wholly private, or the terms of social dysphoria can be limited to the terms of verbal acknowledgement, e.g., one may be satisfied being viewed as androgynous or not passing at a glance while others respect ones correct pronouns and chosen name. To use an analogy, the idea of a "ghost writer" or an anonymous author is a social construct, but one may feel pride and fulfillment in this profession despite it being distinctly removed from their social experience.

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>>8232496
>>8232497

No chance, Just do like me and repress.
Sometimes I come to this board to check things out but anime and alcohol has helped me greatly to forget dysphoria.

I'm almost 30 and with exception of being a shut-in NEET that tried to an hero a couple of times and got locked in a crazy bin I'm doing great.

>>8232852
This is the dumbest shit I've ever read

>>8232930
>they proved this even with monkeys where male monkeys played with boy toys

So monkeys are sugar daddies by nature?

>>8232497
You're not hopeless friend, in fact I'd say your quite good. I'm 18 and I'm jealous of some of your features.

>>8232912
Thanks anon. I try my hardest.
>>8232893
>but I would definitely reject the idea that genitals correspond with gender identity
I'm not trying to say that genitals set your gender identity. I'm saying that genitals are the most basic component of gender. Social constructs add an additional layer of complexity to what gender i, so it's no longer about genitals but rather how you and others were taught to perceive gender.
>The social construction of gender (...) does not necessitate that gender dysphoria hinges upon social perception.
The ideology I have is that people wouldn't experience the same dissatisfaction with themselves in terms of gender if gender wasn't taught at all. Why would you pursue a sex change if you felt you could already freely pursue your ideal self without the need for a sex change?

>>8232930
That's kind of cool, give me a link

>>8232985
Seconded.
>>8232930
Source.

>>8232912
>social construct are what generates the dysphoria
Wrong. Dysphoria feels like having body parts that aren't yours. To be blunt, in some cases it feels violating in a way that's comparable to sexual abuse or rape.

>>8232930
>tfw no monkey bf

>>8233002
>>social construct are what generates the dysphoria
>Wrong.
[citation needed]

>>8233002
Where does that feeling come from? What generates THAT?

What spurs a person to feel like their genitals aren't theirs? They've had them their entire life, why now? Why are they not OK now?

This is what I'm asking, and the most obvious answer to me is being taught classical gender roles.

>>8232982
>I'm saying that genitals are the most basic component of gender.

That is untrue for a lot of people, therefore the generalization is false. For some it is not a component of gender at all.

>>8232497

Higher than 60%, lower than 80%.

Not feminine, not masculine. With the right haircut you'd do well. Curious to see how weight loss would affect your face + lips and even more curious to see how HRT would re-distribute your facial features by the end of the first year.

Gotta transition anyway, right? Don't kill yourself yet. You stand a good chance at passing even if people think you won't be 10/10 cis girl tier.

>>8232982
>gender abolitionist
>describes genitals as most essential component of gender

lmao wut

>>8233033
>They've had them their entire life
And they felt that way about it their entire life. Personally, my genitals feel like something alien is constantly touching me, stuck on my skin.
Research into this stuff is barely starting to get results, so it's not clear why this happens. Some scientific papers I've read suggest it's a fuck-up in the brain related to body mapping (brain expects to get organs from the opposite gender, identifies the organs of the trans person as alien and intrusive).

>>8232982
>Why would you pursue a sex change if you felt you could already freely pursue your ideal self without the need for a sex change?
My ideal self is someone with the right sexual attributes. Otherwise you can call me miss or mister and I won't care that much.
I see what you mean though, sometimes, now that I fully pass, I see how differently I'm treated, and I understand why social norms alone would motivate some people to make the change. Gender roles are harsh. To be honest I'm not exactly happy with the gender roles I transitioned into, but it's still a whole fucking lot better than living in the wrong body.

>>8233063
>>8233057
Not a gender abolitionist, I'm just testing the idea that if a transgender individual had never been taught traditional gender roles, would that individual had ever felt the need to pursue a transition?

Additionally, it might help if I refer to genitals as 'sex', and the way one presents/perceives oneself/others as 'gender', and that classical gender is based upon sex.

>>8233095
>I'm just testing the idea that if a transgender individual had never been taught traditional gender roles, would that individual had ever felt the need to pursue a transition?

That's impossible to know and pursuing that question is a waste of time.

>Additionally, it might help if I refer to genitals as 'sex', and the way one presents/perceives oneself/others as 'gender', and that classical gender is based upon sex.

That is not helpful in the slightest. My penis is female.

>>8232852
Wrong. You're saying you don't need to transition, you just need to move to a different country with different society.

>>8233028
I did technically ask if I was right or wrong.

>>8233120
Why wouldn't that work? What is your endgame?

>>8233095
I was personally raised by a gender abolitionist family and pretty much sheltered into a radfem upbringing, even though I still encountered more traditional gender roles in society later on.

It makes me relate to you a bit- for me, sex is physiology, gender is psychology, and I'm pretty sure the transgender population would be reduced by a lot if it only took sex dysphoria into account, instead of broadening it to gender dysphoria in general.
Besides, there are examples of transgender individuals who transitioned purely for gender roles related reasons. Ironically, there are also sex-dysphoric individuals who refuse to transition for gender roles related reasons (i.e., they don't want to switch social gender).

>>8233128
How would that make any sense to you?

If you just didn't like the way people treat you then fucking move and start over. A lot less extreme than medical intervention for the rest of your life. While you also don't know if society will change in the meantime making your situation worse after transition or removing the need for it in the first place.

>>8233137
>Ironically, there are also sex-dysphoric individuals who refuse to transition for gender roles related reasons

Eh, I won't say that I disbelieve that in general, but in a lot of cases where I noticed people expressing something like this it came across as though they had restrictive beliefs about gender roles or their attitude to transition was deeply intertwined with the belief that they cannot escape their gender assigned at birth.

>>8233137
What traditional gender roles did you encounter later?

How do you think your upbringing affected your views on gender and gender roles?

Are you trans? Mtf or ftm and orientation?

>>8233137
>I'm pretty sure the transgender population would be reduced by a lot if it only took sex dysphoria into account, instead of broadening it to gender dysphoria in general.
By somewhere between a fifth and a third.

>>8232852
Um not sure I understand you, are you claiming there's no such thing as physical/body dysphoria?
Because my biggest sources of dysphoria is physical (bones, muscles, shoulders, hips, waist, breasts, body hair, baldness etc), secondary for me is the social aspect and third is my genitalia.

>>8233309
Your body dysphoria is informed by the bodies of other women and norms of beauty. Some cis women have very flat chest and this does not cause dysphoria for them. I personally know cis women who have thick chest hair and wear low-cut tops in the summer without shaving or epilating. Some cis women shave their heads bald. Body dysphoria is real, but to claim it is entirely based in biology is hardly a tenable thesis.

>>8233342
Well I guess it could be compared to living without the internet a 100 years ago then.. Easy when it haven't been invented yet/you don't know if it's existence and possibilities, I know now and thus I know what I want/need/can do to achieve it.
Try living without the internet now after you know it exist. (Just a bad example I guess).

>>8233170
My family being involved in radfem / TERF politics, I know of several feminists who were sex dysphoric but didn't want to transition for fear of becoming socially male (which is evil or some shit I guess).
That attitude is influenced and reinforced by stories from "detransitioned females" who talk about how they couldn't stand being seen as a male, as "the enemy" (or as a threat) by other women / feminists.
Radical feminism gets a bit fucked up sometimes.

>>8233342
>Does not cause dysphoria for them
Why the fuck would it? They arent trans.

>>8233380
>My family being involved in radfem / TERF politics

Ew. You haven't disowned them yet?

>>8233373
Also want to point one thing out here
>>8233407
>>8233342
It definitely could case them dysphoria even if they are not trans, and they will pursue BA, or hair removal etc. to fix that.
It just won't cause them gender dysphoria unless they are trans..

>>8233380
>feminists suffering because of their own bigotry
Karmic.

>>8233438
>It definitely could

Yes, but it does not. Which strongly goes against the idea that body dysphoria is entirely caused by a "biological mismatch" or however you want to call it.

>>8233439
>equating TERFs with all feminists

Please go. Feminists are the only ones who actually take a stand against TERF rhetoric.

>>8233462
Yeah it's fucked how so many people here hate feminism. They grew up with these messed up beliefs and they can't let 'em go even now that they're the targets of their own faction's hate screed. It reminds me of fundie women or immigrants who hate newer immigrants.

>>8233456
>Yes, but it does not.
>implying
Just because one is fine with it doesn't mean everyone is...

>>8233487
>Just because one is fine with it doesn't mean everyone is...

That's... the point?

>>8233186
I'm FtM and heterosexual, raised in a family where intellect was more important than anything else. As a kid I liked reading and also fighting with other boys. My mom is a sailor, very masculine, pretty much a butch. My dad's a quiet person who likes being left alone to read. As a kid I was encouraged to do whatever I wanted, especially if it meant breaking gender roles. My parents made a point to buy for me both girly and boyish toys so I could choose freely.

I got aware of gender roles during middle school. Girls my age could tell I didn't follow proper gender roles, and I don't think they liked the way I got along with guys either. Lots of rumors about me being a whore. I was bullied pretty harshly, during middle school, high school, and uni.
I eventually realized that being an attractive woman had many perks. I don't know exactly when I understood that. University, I think. I made a point to dress properly for oral exams, and to act more demure / vulnerable whenever I needed people to go easy on me.

To this day I think gender roles are something to be exploited. Also, since I'm trans, gender roles sometimes serve as a loose guideline on how to seem more masculine.

In the end it's an interesting topic to me cause I thought becoming a dude would make me overprivileged and shit, but actually? No. It's just different. And boy do gender roles go deeper than I thought before transitioning.

>>8233500
Which means body dysphoria is a thing then, just not everybody have it, that includes trans and cis..

>>8233412
I'm broke and they're rich, and being TERF-y is probably the most benign thing they did.

>>8233530
That's... also the point?

>>8233541
I think no one would hold it against you if they got in an "accident" and you got their inheritance.

>>8233557
Then that brings us back too me not being sure what you meant I guess? >>8233309

>>8233616
I don't think anyone has said that body/physical dysphoria does not exist. It has only been debated to what extent it is influenced by social norms. I am also not this >>8232852 anon. Sorry if you got confused.

>>8232949
>>8233062
Well thanks for your opinions. I kind of just left the thread hours ago since it was just an argument about dysphoria.

Doors not wanting body hair and hating your figure count as dysphoria? Add to that wanting lush long hair and getting depressed about the beginning of a receding hairline?

>>8233342
A flat woman's chest is still different from an adult man's chest.

How young do you have to start to pass?

>>8234794
You have to take injections in utero.