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I propose a 3rd category of MtF transitioners, an expansion on blanchard's AGP/HSTS dichotomy. I present to you: the "failed male" theory, which doesn't fit exactly into either AGP or HSTS.
A failed male is a male that is unable to fulfill the expectations for a man to get respect and women.
Often the problem is physical: Short height, small stature, lack of muscle, narrow shoulders, feminine facial structure, low testosterone, high voice. When these tiny beta manlets try to look like men, they end up looking like ugly nerds and get ridicule/bullying from men, and social rejection from women. Many of them are strictly cis men in their minds, not trans girls, so they refuse to transition and sound grossed out if you suggest it to them. These grow up to be frustrated creepy men, or go out like Elliot Rodger. Others are fully aware that they would make cute/pretty girls... a small runt of male who takes on the appearance of a female is disarming. Men are more likely to leave them alone, since they're too cute/pretty to bully. And women accept them as friends, since they're too cute to be creepy. But it's still likely for them to be attracted to girls, which means they're still forever alone since girls aren't attracted to males who look like girls.
They have some characteristics of both AGP and HSTS but never fall cleanly into one or the other, so they deserve to be a separate category. They are HSTS in their motivations for transition (easier to fit in socially as a girl), ease of passing, lack of fetishism in transition, young age of transition. But AGP in that they often are attracted to girls, never showed signs of being trans or feminine behavior as a child.
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>>8222957
What. Lots of people, including women, are very attracted to androgynous people.
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>>8222957
t. trent
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>>8222957
For most failed males, transition isn't an attractive option. The ones for whom it is are the ones who are AGP anyway.
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>>8222957
>They have some characteristics of both AGP and HSTS but never fall cleanly into one or the other
but I'm lanky as fuck and only like men...
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>>8222957
>t. Pajeetposter
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>>8223192
can confirm
'omega male' is simply an agp cluster
i have four named agp clusters ('feminine outlier', 'omega male', 'heinlein protagonist', and 'masc repressor') and a fifth that's probably the most common but doesn't seem to have a name -- i usually call it the 'normie morph' because it's a more normie version of the third cluster
however there is extensive overlap between the five
in particular, the first seems to only come alongside another cluster (e.g. the archetypal 'feminine outlier' agp i know is in a community where 1 in 10 members are part of the third cluster, and not by coincidence), but it's so extremely rare to be hard to make calls for
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>>8225297
>'heinlein protagonist'
Boy do I want to hear about this one.
>however there is extensive overlap between the five
Naturally. These are clusters, not taxa.
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>>8225297
haha look at this intricate yet poorly understood dogma--take it to /x/ you goofball
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>>8222957
Are you that sociopathic neckbeard again?
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>>8225323
>Boy do I want to hear about this one.
pic related provides a decent summary of those traits
it's the type you see in a lot of those highly successful agps (wachowski sisters, martine rothblatt, lynn conway, etc), and when combined with autism it's the type you see in smart internet agps (e.g. rationalists)
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>>8225410
I see, the trans programmer group. Interesting that that person characterizes them as not conventionally left-wing or outright right-ring, rather than just politically active in general. Where do the left-wingers fit?
Can you describe the other clusters too, and any other broad trends that don't form entire clusters?
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>>8225448
i think the heinlein protagonists aren't entirely synonymous with the programmers -- they're usually programmers or similar, but most trans girls who program or generally do computer shit (e.g. eli erlick) are normie morph. the heinlein protagonists are absurdly intelligent, break-the-scale intelligent, especially in performance (numerical, logic, etc) -- a survey of the aforementioned '1 in 10 members are heinlein cluster agps' community found a claimed average iq of 145, which is the top 0.3% of the population, and anywhere else i wouldn't believe that but for them it's almost realistic (note that community selects for intelligence in other ways too). they're also consistently bizarre. here's a description of some common traits of members of that cluster:
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2017/02/23/plasticbrains/
the 'normie morphs' are the more generic programmer trans girls. they're often smart, but not crazy genius smart, usually around a standard deviation above the norm. they generally have milder versions of the heinlein cluster traits, and most of them are sjws just because there's a lot of selection pressure for that. eli erlick is a classic example of this cluster, putting aside how astoundingly early onset she is.
omega males are the ones like pajeet (op) who were useless as guys, but can kind of coast as girls because standards are lower. they're reasonably common on 4chan and have similar demographics to other 'failed males' who keep living as dudes (e.g. average to low iq, high rate of mental disorders)
feminine outliers are the weird cluster who have a lot more in common with hstses than the modal agp does. they're still obviously agp to anyone with typology knowledge, but you sometimes need to pry pretty deep to figure it out. in agp-heavy communities they're considered just as strong outliers as hstses are for their gender-conforming-after-transition behaviour. like hstses, they're disproportionately nonwhite.
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>>8225502
>plasticbrains
They aren't specifically trans though?
What's the distinction between omega males and normie morphs?
What trans/AGP traits do the clusters correlate with? Lesbian vs pseudobi, kind of AGP, kind of dysphoria, ability to fit in as women (self-explanatory for outliers, but for the rest?), transition age, likelihood to transition, likelihood to value passing, likelihood to forgo social transition or medical transition, likelihood to opt for SRS, etc?
>like hstses, they're disproportionately nonwhite.
This is the big mystery here. I guess they are AGPs of any cluster who happen to be more feminine, just as a non-AGP het guy might be, and get the same treatment for GNC natal males as HSTS MTFs do.
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Trent you realize that if you have to invent a million different subgroups and other classifications because absolutely none of them are helpful in describing real people your theory is propably bunk right?
like this is getting a bit silly
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>>8225568
>absolutely none of them are helpful in describing real people
[citation needed]
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>>8225297
>>8225502
Oh fascinating. Trent I feel like I'm a masc repressor, omega male and a bit of feminine outlier all rolled into one. I'm large and masc physically so I don't get viewed as omega like pajeet. However i'm shy, a loner, unconfident, awkward, introverted, no gf very little sex, possibly mild autism.
Thing is I have some things about me that are wrong for a masc repressor. I don't like sports, don't drink beer, try to avoid violence(scared of negative consequences)don't bbq, not that interested in cars/trucks, hate having to act "masc", like girly pop music, would let a woman penetrate me and sometimes feel like I want to cry when I'm sad(haven't cried in over 15 years). So basically a numale, I just try to avoid letting people perceive me as one. What I'm trying to figure out is if numale traits count as "feminine outlier"?
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>>8225297
>Heinlein Protagonist
*Moon catapults Trent*
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>>8225596
Burden of proof motherfucker.
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>>8225548
>They aren't specifically trans though?
yeah, i was giving it as more an example of a specific neuroatypicality common in that demographic
note that the plasticbrains article *also* talks about weird political views (my image of the modal heinlein cluster trans girl is a twentysomething ancap trying to make her livelihood out of an unimaginably obscure program language)
>What's the distinction between omega males and normie morphs?
normie morphs aren't really normies, which is why i want a better term for them. as guys they're weird and nerdy, but in a notably different way to the omega cluster. normie morph agps are smart and eccentric, while omega clusters tend to just get assumed to be crazy or losers.
i'm still working on finding what traits the clusters correlate with. heinlein protag clusters seem to have a bimodal distribution in transition age, with the first peak around late teens/early twenties and the second in midlife. anyone who has the feminine outlier traits alongside their own cluster is, much like hstses, a lot more likely to transition in her twenties or younger than >30. masc repressors seem to be the latest transitioners.
the normie morph cluster seem to be most often non-op and generally weird in their transitions, but i think that's a failure on my part to control for how many of them are sjws, rather than an actual innate tendency. it's common but not as common in the heinlein cluster -- if it were a genuine tendency, it'd expect them to have it slightly more often.
>>8226092
numale traits are omega, not feminine
agps who are feminine outlier alongside something else are genuinely rare, and will routinely be assumed to be gaybois before transition and have the same issues repressing their femininity as hstses
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>>8225297
>>8225502
>>8226151
>https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2017/02/23/plasticbrains/
>Plasticbrains people often come up with clear and consistent rules for situations that don’t have them and then loudly insist that these rules are objectively correct. For instance, plasticbrains people often adhere to a specific philosophical school of ethics (egoism, utilitarianism, deontology, virtue ethics) instead of relying on intuitive morality.
Reminds you of anyone?
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>>8226156
kek
to a greater or lesser degree it's also discussing autists, and the comments (i'm in the comments on that post) talk about that
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>>8226159
For real though sorry for hounding you but you're clever and kind and it hurts to see you get sucked into LARPing a researcher with no standards.
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>>8226151
More thoughts on the clusters?
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>>8222957
>hey like, I had this AMAZING idea and I totally FEEL that it just MUST be right!
>this is how keyboard commando /pol/tards think science works
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>>8230125
That's how blanchardians work too. E.g. they take completely unproven concepts of ETLE causing A*P causing transness as a fact.
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>>8231495
The difference is ETLEs make perfect sense.
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>>8234868
And have as much proof for them as the OP's post does.
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>>8234868
God creating the universe makes perfect sense, else how could something appear from nothing.
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>>8234919
>Evolution and ETLEs tell us how things happened.
You might not understand the amount of work that has been put into showing evolution is true, not to mention that ETLEs do nothing to address the source of gender identities in cis individuals.
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>>8234947
At which point between 1857 and today do you consider evolution to have been shown to be true?
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>>8234961
My dude look at what you're asking and then look at the sum of work that has been done on ETLEs and think whether that's a legitimate question. I don't know the history of evolution as a concept but I know the modern arguments for it and all of them are fairly lengthy and rooted in a great deal of evidence.
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>>8234961
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_On_the_Origin_of_Species
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought#1859.E2.80.931930s:_Darwin_and_his_legacy
Start reading there, there are plenty citations if you don't trust wikipedia.
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>>8235048
You're an idiot.
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