So Bill Nye's got a new show and in one of the episodes

>>8159532
Fuck no. You know he's going to include non binary people in this shit. Say some shit like "gender is a spectrum and some trans people are in the middle" I'm going to fucking kill myself this shit is going to be played in middle school.

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>>8159539
Funny you say that.

>>8159552
Time to go Allahu akbar in this bitch.

>>8159552
Is the episode the "sexual spectrum" ONE? Cause I'm about to give myself cancer and/or pop a serious blood vessel by watching it. New levels of self harm.

>>8159552
>>>/tv/81947493
>filename matches up
Hmmm...

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>>8159552

>>8159552
I can't even address the image itself because some retard decided to put his "clever" image macro text on top of it. That shit died out here years ago when Reddit started doing it. Or perhaps this image was created on Reddit...?

>>8159552
How does he justify this? There's literally no scientific evidence supporting "nonbinary" genders being a real thing.

>>8159633
Other than the fact that real people say that's what they are, and those worthless things like you don't have any say in the matter whatsoever?

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>>8159552
DELET THIS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8159633
Why don't you watch the episode yourself? It's free.

>>8159638
>Christians
>paying attention to science

LOOOOOOOOOOL

Oh great, now I guess a bunch of people are going to respond to that single post so they can make an epic screencap for /r/4chan.

>>8159641
What single post? Which meme was so dank that it's gonna get made into an epic macro that really matters?

>>8159635
>real people say that's what they are

Real people also say they're wolfkin and fictionkin, doesn't make it legit.

There's evidence that transsexuals are a real thing, there's no evidence that nonbinaries are a real thing and a lot of the scientific research I've read has pointed this fact out.

>>8159653
>Real people also say they're wolfkin and fictionkin, doesn't make it legit.

I've never met or heard of any real people say that, just more diseased pedophile 4chan memes like, thinking that if you dank it and disease it hard enough, your religion will matter more than reality.

As I just said, you don't have any say in anything at all. As soon as people learn to finally see all of you for what you are, they'll stop letting you do or be anything at all. It's just a matter of time before people realize you can't be anything but completely worthless.

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>>8159635
We have real people saying they're hot shit even though they're not, we have real fatties saying they're fit, we have real social misfits saying they inhibit animal souls, we have real kids saying they're Batman, we have real lunatics saying the Bible is legit, we have real addicts saying they're not.
People have shit judgement, never listen to them.

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>>8159635
The point is that he acts as a scientist. The majority of people believe most of the shit that comes out of his mouth as cold hard SCIENCE. But there is no science or studies or evidence (other than "feelings") to prove that there are more than two gender. But in the pic, he says we used to think there were only male and female. But there is no proof that it has changed at all. He is giving out false science to people who believe his word to be factual science.

>>8159666
I don't. However, just becuase I don't read, listen to or otherwise risk memorizing their stupid bullshit doesn't mean I won't talk down to them. Just because you refuse to have a dialogue with or compromise with someone doesn't mean you have to stop painting them in a bad light. Just because you refuse to feed and cloth some worthless trip doesn't mean you have stop shooting it.

>>8159679
There is reality. LGBT is reality. There are other aspects of human sexuality not included in LGBT that are reality.

And then there's you and your stupid lies, bullshit, whining, crying, bitching, moaning, cowardice, and autistic screeching.

A scientist doesn't need to know every single fact in the whole universe about a subject in order to talk about it, any more than they have to obey some worthless lying pedophile like you when you scream at them to stop making Jesus cry.

>>8159658
>I've never met or heard of any real people say that

You obviously don't live in a very liberal area, some of the other people at my college's trans group argued with me and told me I was a bigot for not referring to a wolfkin they were talking about with "it" pronouns

>>8159666
>we have real kids saying they're Batman
Subtle insult of Donald Trump, I like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff9vcmPrhRU

>>8159689
But I'm not falling for you obvious lie any more than the last 1000000 obvious lies you told.

>>8159687
But they need to know the majority about the topic to teach others about it????? He is teaching something to impressionable minds that is not proven. He might as well be teaching them the world is flat, Hitler is alive, or lizards run our country. If he wants to teach these things as a SCIENTIST he is obligated to give evidence of his teachings or show go on with a study to prove his hypothesis. He has done none of that. He has only referenced people thoughts and feelings. But a lot of people have tons of thoughts and feelings on the world being flat?

>>8159700
You're still not convincing me that you're allowed to have an opinion on the topic, much less that he isn't. He's a human, you're just dog shit.

>>8159697
I really wish I were lying, anon.

I've also met at least a dozen girls who identified as nonbinary and said they figured out they were "trans" because they like wearing pants. It's ridiculous.

>>8159705
tl;dr lying dog shit

Stop falling for Conservative and fascist bullshit, guys.

https://www.boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-textbook/gender-and-sexuality-15/gender-414/gender-as-a-spectrum-and-transgender-identities-298-12833/

>>8159703
This isn't about opinions. He is talking about it like it's a fact. It is not a fact because it is not proven. I don't care his opinion or anyone else's opinion on it. But I am sick of people shoving their opinions down people's throat as if their opinions are facts.

Personally, I think Non binary identities may be true. But I don't have an opinion because I am fully trans and feel no connection to nonbinary. However, if there was evidence like there is with transgenders, I would believe it.

>>8159705
Where do you meet all these people?

>>8159713
Being transgender has NOTHING to do with masculinity and femininity.

Plenty of transmen are feminine. Plenty of trans women are masculine.

Being transgender is having GID. Or having distress over wanting to have the body of the opposite gender.

Non binary is an identity. Nothing more at this point.

>>8159715
tl;dr anti-fact religious lying pedo

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>>8159743
>tl;dr

>>8159743
Leave 4chan, please

>>8159755
If everybody in the world responded to you like that your entire life, the world would be a better place.

>>8159756
No, disease.

>>8159743
Aren't you on the side that always gets mad at people for speaking for a group of people that they aren't apart of? Well, bill nye sure as hell isn't trans, and I can tell you that the majority of trans people don't want to be grouped in with nonbinary identities. They have their nonbinary, leave us to our binary genders and work on getting your pronouns recognized while we fight our right to not want to mutilate our bodies.

>>8159727
My university's trans "support group" (AKA social club for tumblr girls with dyed hair who "aren't like the other girls" to talk about makeup and Steven Universe).

They fucking dominate that shit, and have driven most of the real trans people out.

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>>8159763

>>8159778
>>8159779
This was a retarded addendum to your post.

>>8159778
Yup. Where do binary trans people belong under this "trans umbrella"? Usually dead or pushed out to go through the struggles on their own.

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>>8159783
Okay, was just trying to really drive home the type of girl I'm talking about here.

Imagine a group of about a dozen girls like this, that's the average university trans group these days.

>>8159792
>this is important
I don't get it, who added that part?

>>8159798
I'm not sure, just found it in a google image search and was too lazy to edit that out before posting.

>>8159679
Genders and sexes are different, a gender is something you identify socially, while a sex is what you are biologically. Biologically, you can only be male, female or intersex, but your gender can be whatever you want. A gender exists as long as you believe it exists. That's the scientific explanation.

>>8159832
Then what point does any science of trans women's brains being more similar to real women than to real men? Transgenderism is a mental thing. Identities are desperate from this because there is proof a biological man can develop a female brain. And vice versa. Nonbinary is an identity because it is not biologically proven.

BILL NYE
THE SCIENCE GOY

>>8159851
Goy isn't pronounced like guy you retard.

>>8159844
That's a completely different issue. Being transgender only comes down to taking pills, there's no way everyone is doing that for the same reason. Autism, depression, childhood trauma, mental illness and certain personality traits can definitely cause people to become transgender. The cause of a problem doesn't invalidate the problem, however. If being closer to a woman's appearance and being accepted as one in society is the best solution, we should just do that. There's barely any science when it comes to trannies, just opinions

>>8159700

I feel like he's not obligated to do anything except you know, whatever's outlined in his netflix contract. He's an mechie engineer and started his entertainment career doing sketch comedy. He's providing entertainment, it just happens to be the type if entertainment people love because it's lightly educational. I've never seen the show but can assume it takes on the same air; science, facts or not theres a market for millenials and we're buying.

>>8159936
Why do so many people spell it millenials? It's millennials. I know it's not always a typo because I see this misspelling so frequently.

>>8159939

it's a typo

>>8159966
Not always, because I've also seen people spell it that way multiple times in the same post. So it's on purpose.

>>8159854
>triggered aspie
Kys yourself you worthless non-Jewish piece of shit.

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>>8159552
>tumblr's autism abacus

>>8159552
Can you post the image WITHOUT the faggot text?

>>8159713
Psychology and sociology are notorious for being iffy with facts. This is because research in these fields cannot follow the scientific method by their nature. They are also heavily subject to sampling issues, and are often non-reproducible. There is biological and medical evidence for the existence of transgendered individuals, there is none for non-binary attention seeking identities.

>>8159982

alright you caught me, I'm just some guy at a media group that's contracted by Raytheon and probably some alphabet agencies. I receive a manilla folder on my desk every morning which details my work (shilling as it's come to be called here). what you're experiencing right now is a "false flagging" attempt at instilling a subconscious affirmation of the 'Mandella effect' on this imageboard. Now it isn't real but is still used to sew the seeds of discord among the more radical and unstable population; why? Fuck if I know, just posting on 4chan while following the guidelines sure as hell beats my previous jobs.

>>8159532
Is this the kike who pretends to be a scientist despite being just a shitty engineer?

>>8160068
Thank you, this makes much more sense.

>>8160069
You sound EXACTLY like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory when you say this.

>>8160092
>watching jewish "comedy"
No thanks.

>>8160098
Shouldn't you be more worried that you inadvertently made yourself sound like a Jewish comedian? I think you might be catching the Jew.

Stopped watching after 2nd episode on alternative medicine. Dude is a little too optimistic about how capitalism propels western medicine and makes me think he's just a shill

>>8159653
Not to say that it isn't faggotry, but what would scientific evidence supporting nonbinaries even look like?

>>8160354
I never watched that faggot show so I have no clue what those characters are saying. Nor do I give a fuck.

>>8159552
none of this is scientific. Billy Nye the tumblr guy.

>nonbinary genders aren't scientific

I don't think that really matters. It's a cultural thing. Many cultures have a third gender. "But ours doesn't"--cultures change over time. You're watching a change happen now.

Being "trans" is the state of having gender dysphoria. Having gender dysphoria is described currently as a feeling of wanting to be the opposite sex, but it seems pretty reasonable to imagine that a big driving factor in dysphoria is feeling strongly against your own physical sex, and that there is only one other option to try to be--the opposite sex.

However, there are alot of cis people who don't feel strongly identified with being male or female. Why can't there be trans people--which, again, is just people with dysphoria--who also don't feel strongly identified with either male or female, but who experience a sensation that makes them uncomfortable with their physical sex?

If the solution for helping those people feel better and function happily in society is to let them wear what clothes they want, change their name if they want to, and call them "they" then the cure is pretty damn simple and doesn't hurt anyone. If they feel that they need to take hormones or get surgery, then they're not really getting anything that hasn't already been established as reasonable and (in the process of becoming) socially acceptable treatment for transpeople. They are a type of transperson.

People who feel this way are always going to exist whether there is a word for it or not and whether there is a role in society for them or not. I don't care about the science portion really. But it seems to me that we're watching our culture make a name and place for them and because other cultures around the world have had it at various times, it's really not even that radical of an idea and not a new thing at all and is not going to really do anything big aside from make life more comfortable for a segment of people.

>>8160912
Let's start World War III and put Nonbinaries on the front line.

>>8160912
I like this post

Bill Nye is a hack who has never done real research, has no clue what science is like, and actively misleads people into uncritical acceptance of scientific findings ("scientism").

>>8159532
>>8159539
>tfw you were never educated about trans issues in middle school
>tfw you would've transitioned early if you were

>>8161448
Another AGP failed by the education system.

>>8160912
>I don't think that really matters

It does because they claim to be the same thing as transsexuals (who have a legitimate medical condition) which confuses the normies and makes them take real trans people less seriously because they start associating them with Tumblr fakebois

>>8159532
kys

link to the segment?

>>8159539
do it faggot. the world will be better off without spooked idiots like you

>>8159633
He's been refusing to promote the anti-gmo tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff lately so he has to balance it out with the gender queer nonsense in order to keep his show going.

>>8160453
But the fact that you made yourself sound like them without even having seen it means that you are a Jewish caricature.

My point is, you sound stupid.

>>8160453
Yeah, idiot.

>>8159679
But he's not a scientist and has never claimed to be. If people see him as one that's their own problem, not his.

>>8164325
No you and he are both being intellectually dishonest. He gets on TV and talks about science in his lab coat with a certain smugness/ authoritaian voice as if he is qualified to know what hes talking about. Sure WE know hes not qualified but the hes taking advantage of the fact the average normie assumes he is because hes the most famous science person on the planet.

>>8159552
>>8159532
I don't like it maaaan.
And I don't like how they separate gender and sex, they're really synonymous, only that their usage are different (like less, and fewer, are used in different context, bit are synonymous).

>>8164325
But he is a scientist person...
He has the education and diplomas, and has work experience.

>>8164756
Two words that don't even sound the same shouldn't be considered synonymous.

>>8164797
No synonymous words sound like one another.

>>8164757
False. All of his PhDs are honorary. The only degree he's actually earned is a bachelor's. He is entirely unqualified.

>>8159792
wait a minute none of these girls are like the others?

>>8159738
this

>>8164830
WHAT IF I SAY I'M NOT LIKE THE OTHERS

Why do people shit talk Nye for being a mechanical engineer, as if that's not a respectable position? Better than anything you could do, I'm sure.

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>>8165185
>engineer
>respectable

>>8159832
ALMOST.

In order to identify as a gender, you need to satisfy 2 conditions:

1. identify
2. be identified

I can say "I'm a girl" all I want but if you don't identify me as a girl, I'm not one.

Gay/faggot is a gender (Gender is defined with ADJECTIVES, there is no such thing as "men gender" or "boy gender." Male and Female are used for biological sex, masculine and feminine are used for gender). Think about it for a little bit. They don't identify as masculine gender, but not as feminine gender either. They feel comfortable being male and don't want to be treated as though they are female, but instead as some distinct third gender, an effeminate male BUT NOT REALLY because they follow social rules that would be inappropriate for women to follow, and really "effeminate" just means in this case "not masculine" but we don't really have a word for that besides "flaming" or "homo" or "queer" which don't really describe it either.

Otherwise, yes, this is in the right direction.

Gender falls under social science, like communications or linguistics, and should be studied by sociologists and anthropologists. I question how Bill Nye, who mainly talks about physics, is supposed to have any credibility in this field. Not all science is the same, and someone who knows a lot about one thing isn't going to know a lot about another thing even in the same field! I wouldn't ask Stephen Hawking any complicated questions about computer circuitry, even though that's science and he's a scientist.

>>8165255
Yeah because I'm sure the idiot who posted a fucking Yugioh card has some top-notch job.
Face it, you work at McDonald's and you're mad he's better than you.

>>8165185
They talked like him and his kind were the best thing in the world, until he came out in favor of accepting the reality about LGBT people, now they're pulling their typical Christ disease thing.

They thought because his skin is THAT pale he must be a piece of shit like them.

can I watch this without netflix somewhere

I cant fucking find it and I feel retarded

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>>8159552
>implying the sexual spectrum isn't an 8-dimensional cube

how many levels of science is this guy on

>>8159658
Not him but I've met those kind of people, so yeah.

>>8159552
Wait, what's the problem with this? It seems like he's basically got it down, "gender =/= sex =/= sexuality =/= expression" and vice versa. And the stuff in the middle is intersex, bisexuality and all the other notches on the Kinsey scale, more androgynous forms of expression, and yeah maybe some bigender nonsense. But it's basically okay.

anyone have a link to watch this? what kind of damage did he do?

>>8165627
>>8159552

Yeah, I think Tumblr's kind of poisoned this whole topic to where any reasonable discussion just triggers everyone and brings to mind the worst of the worst of snowflakedom.

In reality, discussion of the difference between gender, sex, sexuality and expression is still very useful, especially to utter normies.

Literally any time the concept of trans women being attracted to women comes up outside of lgbt it's met with a sea of confused "so... straight men?" "well then why get a sex change in the first place?"
Even basic shit like being bisexual, a lot of people still don't get.

As much as Tumblr takes shit way too far and mades every slight variation out to be some huge ass thing in and of itself, the bare basics of this sort of thing are still useful to distinguish.
Hell, Tumblrshits above all people could use a rehash in the fact that having nonconforming gender expression doesn't make you a whole new fucking gender since those are two completely different things.

>>8165842
gender nonconforming is the term for when you are a whole other gender outside of the binary, but tumblr seems to think that "doesn't like flowers" and "doesn't want to have children" are proof of nonconformity.

>>8165842
gender is complicated stuff and we should really try to avoid talking about it in politics except where it's medically relevant. gender dysphoria should be considered a mental illness, treatable with hrt and srs, and the rest of it should just not matter. bathrooms are sex segregated for no good reason anyway, i use women's bathrooms all the time if it's an enclosed room (not the one with stalls, the one with a locking door) and the men's room is in use.

>>8165865
>tfw I was waiting in line for the women's restroom and a girl passed me to go into the empty men's room
>tfw this finally gives me the courage to go in the men's restroom after she comes out

>>8159779
>They fucking dominate that shit, and have driven most of the real trans people out.
I don't think I've heard of a single LGBT support group kind of thing where this hasn't happened. We need to figure out some secret code to find each other while keeping the tumblrcunts out already, it's ridiculous.
Maybe just uniting under some banner that'd repel them without actually pissing them off, the anti-Steven Universe. Like a Brendan Maclean fanclub or something.

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>>8159851

BOLL NOY
THO SCOONC GOY

>>8159633
gender ideology is pretty similar to a religious belief.
you believe it or you dont believe it. theres no proof, or basis in reality or anything.

>>8159633
https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf

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>>8164806
>Spend decades being a science teacher and studying science and engineering post-college
>He's not a REAL scientist!!!

Jesus christ with the character assassination. It's like reading my grandmother's facebook. You don't have to agree with everything he says or like him, but he knows more about general science than 99% of the people reading this.

>>8167435
>apa
That's the same APA that called homosexuality a mental disorder?

>>8167472
Yes

Did you know science evolves and changes over time as new information comes out? I guess not, or you wouldn't ask such a stupid fucking question.

>>8167509
>as new information comes out
Funny way of spelling "according to whatever's politically acceptable at the time".

>>8167515
nice meme. We can justify any retarded belief with this reasoning.

>>8160062
trotting out yet another tired old false meme.

>>8160406
So why does a Epipen cost hundreds of dollars?

capitalism has taken over western medicine. We used to spend government money looking for real cures to diseases. The opponents of that said industry is the best way to find the cures. Now medicine only provides symptom relief. It's much more profitable to have somebody hooked on your drug for life than to fix the real problem in a few days or weeks.

>>8167525
Maybe you're being deliberately obtuse but on the off chance you're just very historically ignorant, no, actually it too concerted demands by the LGBT community to get homosexuality removed as a mental disorder. There was no discovery of magical scientific evidence that homosexuality was ok after all the the APA quacks were simply mistaken and honestly I have no ideas what kind of scientific evidence you are imagining there was.

>>8162855
>He's been refusing to promote the anti-gmo tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff lately
Good for him. There is no evidence that adding the Roundup gene to soybeans has caused problems in humans. All the problems people have reported are related to soy it's self, regardless of it's having the roundup gene or not. Similar for wheat.

>>8165627
The way people are reacting I thought Bill was talking about Otherkin trans-racials or something else cringy.

Holy shit, I take back any cautiously optimistic good faith defence of this show, this is the worst thing I've ever seen, what the actual fuck are they doing?
https://twitter.com/CounterMoonbat/status/856493667590316032

This is what happens when we dismiss Tumblr's bitching about 'muh representation' with 'fuck off, just go make that shit yourself.'
They make this.

>>8167456

>You don't have to agree with everything he says or like him
Right. Because he's just a science teacher with an engineering degree who works as an entertainer.
If he WAS a highly educated expert on the specific things he was saying, they'd merit more examination.

>>8168331
Yeah I retract everything. Yeesh

>>8168331
i dont even.

>>8168378
Good one, buuuuurn! Jesus would be proud. XD

>>8159532
Gender still isn't a spectrum.

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>>8159539
Hahahaha

>>8169224
Just like sex, and orientation, gender is a spectrum.

>>8169224
>>8169477
gender = presentation + personality

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46h-LfNWPn8

Holy shit. A bunch of gay and bi ice creams molest a straight one until he likes it. Is this actually a pro-homophobia video in disguise? Seriously end yourself, Bill Nye, you cunt stain.

>>8169486
ugh, stop being such an ignorant bigot.
gender is whatever you believe it is.

>>8169510
I'd rather not reinforce the retarded beliefs of people who keep insisting that gender is the same thing as sex.

This shit's on a spectrum the same way foot sizes are on a spectrum. People who wear a size six don't all have perfectly identical feet and no one expects them to, they just fall well enough within a certain range that they'll all generally be able to fit comfortably in the same shoe. Significant variation to where one's comfort would be significantly impeded in that same sized shoe renders the need to classify a different size. But sub-categorising for every irrelevant fraction of a millimetre of variation in any direction just for the sake of acknowledging it is pointless and inefficient.

>>8169527
>that gender is the same thing as sex.
but it is. all youre doing is changing definitions to whatever supports your beliefs.

>>8169563
>changing definitions to whatever supports your beliefs
t. person redefining 'gender' to something it never meant

>>8169508

This is so fucking cringey. Every single thing about this is just the worst. The analogy, the tone deaf appropriation of feels over reals, the insinuation that vanilla is boring and stupid while being 'two things at once' is inherently awesome, the stupid fucking 'LOLGEDDIT?!' facial expressions, the horrible voices, strawberry being a stupid asshole, bothering to strawman fucking religious conversion therapy as if anyone who watches this show needs to know it's a bad thing, making light of something that still seriously impacts many people, minimising and caricaturing the reasons people can be uncomfortable with each others sexualities and the ways that can manifest, the puns, mint choc outright denying that vanilla is vanilla in response to him denying everyone else their identities, everyone fucking sexually harassing him over it.

THEY FUCKING CONVERTED VANILLA FOR MAKING A POINT ABOUT HOW HE SHOULDN'T TRY TO CONVERT EVERYONE ELSE.
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THIS HORSE SHIT?

>>8169508
I'm actually thoroughly convinced a lot of media now is pro-homophobia in disguise of being 'progressive' (whatever that means to media entities these days). They just can't be THAT fucking out of touch and retarded. Or the videos that end up making a lot of arguments that can be misappropriated as homophobic. It's all just too fucking messy to be some lil mistake.

>>8169592
you are confusing "gender" with "gender roles".

>>8169642
Explain yourself.

>>8169656
gender roles = presentation + personality + any other attributes associated with that gender for your culture.

>>8169486
Gender is what role your mind wants to play in reproduction.

>>8169684
Okay...?

>>8169563
this >>8169698

What bothers me about the show (aside from Bill Nye's condescension) is that it does that same thing all the liberals seem to be so fond of these days where they bring a bunch of celebrities out and you're expected to trust their words because come on, they're celebrities. You'd think they'd know better than to use such an obvious logical fallacy in a show that's supposedly about science.

>>8169656
He's an idiot. Gender never meant sex.

>>8169752
Yeah, I know.

>>8165842

While I stand by what I said here to some extent, I'd like to formally apologise and retract any association I presumed it to have with this horrible, HORRIBLE show in light of new information
>>8168331
>>8169508

This show is some of the worst cancer I've ever seen with a budget, and I'm legitimately fucking angry that it exists. Fuck Bill Nye, fuck Netflix, fuck everyone involved in making this cancer.

Why does it feel like people are TRYING to get people to hate them these days? Is it some backwards plot to turn everyone against queers again? Is it a secret ploy to get queers and anti-queers all getting along in mutual hatred of this fucking cancer? Is it just soulless marketing to SJWs who have become a large market with enough disposable income and free time to be worth pandering to?
Is it US? Are we somehow making them money with our projective vomit?

Why does Amy Schumer have a career? Why does Francesca Ramsey have a Comedy Central pilot? Why is there a video on twitter of two white guys rapping about cultural appropriation with all the cringe of a Christian side-hug? What is going on that's allowing things to be so fucking terrible with funding behind them?

>>8169805
It's really frustrating because I don't want to take the side of the bigots who are saying some very stupid things thanks to this show, but this show really picked one of the worst ways possible to go about it. It's like, way to make my side look like a bunch of idiots, Bill. I want people to understand me, but this is NOT the way to go about it. Not like this.

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>>8169843

What it comes down to is cishets virtue singling about queers for the pleasure of cishets.
They're just a bunch of fucking morons jerking off to how 'woke' they are, and not giving a single fuck about who they piss off or the actual lgbt people who have to live with the backlash and misinformation they're putting out into the world.
It's truly a piece of shit thing to do, and I'm so sick and tired of it.

And at the end of the day, these fucking people VASTLY outnumber us, not to mention thinning our own numbers with their emotionally blackmailing indoctrination. If they want to steamroll us for their own pleasure, they have more than enough power to do so, and to crush us for wrongthink if resist.

But it's not like it's even a huge shift. I was lucky enough to grow up in a time where beating up queers in the street is looked down upon (which a lot of these pampered chucklefucks seem to forget was not always the case, and still isn't in many places). But queers in media were still for nothing but feeding cishet saviour complexes. Mourning how unavoidably horrible it is to be queer, how terrible your life is going to be, how you're doomed to be killed or kill yourself if you don't die of AIDS first.
And these were also 'progressive' messages, such sympathetic! They gave absolutely ZERO fucks about the actual queer people seeing this and being told that this is what they can expect out of life, zero fucks about the effect that fearmongering will have on them.

Now, that kind of bigotry is just treated like a fucking JOKE. And the support networks intended to temper it have been usurped by demigirls and greygenders, ostracising actual queers for not being queer enough.

So they make this fucking cancer, it predictably brings out a lot of prejudiced feelings in the people it was designed to piss off. And now queer kids get to grow up reading what those people think of them, thanks to these piece of shit's misrepresentation.

I'm just so fucking tired of it.

>>8170092
>>8169843
>misrepresentation
what are the misrepresentations you see in the show? I don't have netflix so I haven't seen the show yet. I'd like to see it.

The abacus seams like a reasonably good way to present the different axis of sex, gender, orientation, and expression. It isn't perfect because it leaves out the agenders, asexuals, and those that don't have an expression need. I'm assuming expression is how one wants to present to the world as in the crossdressers.

>>8169805
I think people just actually watch Amy Schumer's show because they think it's funny, she's not an SJW or anything.

>>8169743
That's all bill nye is now, he hasn't done engineering in like 20+ years.

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>>8170317

Not her recent special, it got ripped to shreds and she blamed it on alt-right trolls. She's been going down the shitter for a good while now as far as public opinion goes, but the media just keeps pretending she's great.

>>8170358
but there was an actual campaign by the alt-right to mass 1* her special. like, i don't actually give a shit about her and as far as i've heard she's awful, but she wasn't lying about that

>>8170454
Funny thing is Netflix changed the ratings system not long after that so their campaign didn't actually affect anything. My TV still shows star ratings and it's back up to four stars, while my computer gives it an "88% match."

>>8170454

That doesn't mean everyone didn't hate it anyway.

>>8170317
When Amy Schumer was a kid and said she wanted to be a comedienne, people laughed. Well, they're not laughing now.

>>8170507
i know, but the alt-right gave her an easy excuse that is somewhat legitimate
i pay her no attention and would never even have heard of her if it wasnt for people spamming her

>>8170624
Don't you realize? They're all paid off by Schumer herself.

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>>8159629
>made on imgur watermark

This is what happens when non sjw real trans keep to themselves, we have no voice so the most crazy non trans loudmouth freaks picked up the loudspeaker and think they speak for all of us because we remain silent. But i want to remain silent and unknown because who wants to be outted on a huge level.

Bill Nye's skin is so good for his age

>>8171013
Don't even try to deny that Imgur is where Reddit hosts all their images.

>>8169563
>Gender is the same thing as sex

Then why have two different words?

Also you're wrong.
https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf

>>8168372
Everything he says is FROM scientists. He's citing psychologists and psychiatrists. They're the ones who first said sex and gender are distinct, not him.

>>8171362
>He's citing psychologists and psychiatrists.
So are half the people you'll ever ague with on 4chan, that doesn't mean they're interpreting shit correctly. I'm not saying that everything out of his mouth is bullshit, but to give him the amount of trust you'd give the actual people who studied this shit first hand just because he too has access to google is retarded.

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>>8160912

>give in to societal attitudes about what a person of a certain gender should be like
>call yourself the same thing as someone who suffers different problems
>conform
>reinforce traditional attitudes
>don't realise that cis people don't "strongly identify"

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>>8168331
If you told me this was a clip from an upcoming Brave New World movie, I would believe you.

How do we get into the mainstream and undo this kind of damage?

This board can't seem to agree on gender in any way, but maybe we could convince people that there's no consensus and to stop telling people there is one.

>>8169805
>Why does Amy Schumer have a career? Why does Francesca Ramsey have a Comedy Central pilot? Why is there a video on twitter of two white guys rapping about cultural appropriation with all the cringe of a Christian side-hug? What is going on that's allowing things to be so fucking terrible with funding behind them?
I was promised SJWism would be confined to tumblr. Turns out it can be monetized, so it was. Now, it's ruining the left's brand and alienating more people than ever. Almost like some want to artificially polarize people even more than they already were.

"Politics is downstream from culture". Disregard the fact that Andrew Breitbart said this, it's true. The only reason why this shit isn't annihilating the left completely is because the right is still culturally-retarded, and Milo no less cringeworthy to people than neo-Comedy Central.

They're freaking trying to humiliate trans people. The left is on our side legally, but honestly the cultural will be BAD.

All the cringe stuff you describe is what happened, low-key and much less cringeworthy, in Europe, and guess what? Not even left-wing parties explicitly mention "LGBT" in their party platforms, they just put it all under "Family" or whatever. And during campaigns, they never even talk about LGBT rights, because people either don't give a fuck, or feel threatened by it. France was in some ways more socially left-wing in the past than it is now.

It's crucially important to have GOOD representation of the trans community, not so trans people can feel better, but so average people can come to see trans people as normal people and not freaks. And these narcissistic SJWs are failing miserably at this, and humiliating all of us.

Fuck this shit.

>>8171835
>honestly the cultural will be BAD
cultural *backlash*
I wish there were IQ pills damn

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>>8171835
>Almost like some want to artificially polarize people even more than they already were.

It is called Divide and Conquer and yes, it is a thing. You're too busy fighting over inconsequential things that you don't notice the government coup and loss of civil liberties.

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>>8171887
>tfw Ron Paul could have saved us
God damn it I loved him.

Just to expand on what I meant in >>8171835:
French textbooks were changed to start talking about heteronormativity, saying that "you can choose your sexuality!" (lolno; and yes, it did say "sexuality" and not "gender"), that people are straight because they are "taught straight scenarios".

The instructions meant for teachers explicitly talked about not just teaching about transgenderism, homosexuality etc (which is fine) but questioning heterosexuality as a cultural construct (lolno again, you can't choose to be straight) and teaching kids about "heterosexual privilege" and feminine penises.

>>8171835

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PygvtSQVfVs

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>tfw you just want to be a girl but you get lumped in with this because people want to be so "progressive"

>>8169477
Then why are there only two?

>>8173110
Agender and non-binary gender...

>>8173137

...are not real.

>>8173242
are accepted by the APA.

>>8173276

Does not make them real

>>8173306
show you have no argument and are just trolling.

>>8173485

It can't be trolling if I genuinely believe it.

>>8173276
>APA
I bet the first word stands for "American", which kinda renders it SJW bullshit.

>>8171835
They ARE trying to destroy the left.
Redistribution of money from top to bottom is not in their interest.
It's all been replaced by identity politics now to distract from the fact that the middle and lower classes is getting poorer and poorer.

>>8173604
Agreed. Not sure what to think since I'm pro-business and anti-trans.

>>8173604
>to distract from the fact that the middle and lower classes is getting poorer and poorer.
and the press is owned by the rich...

>>8173625
>anti-trans
fuck I meant anti-SJW

>>8159552
>sex is a spectrum
What the fuck, why are liberals pushing this shit?

>>8159653
Nonbinary means falling outside of the man-woman spectrum of gender, yeah? Gender roles are arbitrary, so this means that people falling in between or outside of this spectrum also have arbitrary identities. If nonbinary means that they are neither man nor woman, then how can you say that nonbinary isn't a real thing?

Could you link some research papers that discuss this?

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>>8173604
>>8171887
>>8171835
I'm sorry this happened. Some of us are still trying to save the Left from this. Not because we don't care about queer people, but because we care a lot and don't want to just exploit you for political brownie points.

Just please remember, these guys are leftists. They're the neoliberal agenda dressed up in pseudo-leftist gibberish, in order to sow conflict and prevent an alliance between the middle and lower classes.

>>8167456

Anyone who claims that engineers are scientists is an idiot. Engineering is applied science, you do not call a baker a chemist, or a doctor a biologist. Undoubtedly, those professions are influenced by science but to claim that they do hard science is just wrong. Bill Nye does not do double blind trials for research, in fact he's not involved with research at all except for fundraising. Nye was an engineer that built planes for boeing before becoming a scientific educator/pop culture icon.

He is not a real scientist, unlike NDT, who actually has published papers about star luminosity.

Bill Nye has good intentions, but his new show is liberal propaganda (and I am a liberal myself, mind you). All he had to do was stick to the same Bill Nye the science guy formula and this shit would have been amazing.

>>8173849

>>8173763
Because liberals care about honesty and reality. Try it some time, conservative.

>>8173875
Sex is not a fucking spectrum. You're biologically male or female (barring weird .000000001% birth defects).

>>8173919
They'e actually a lot more common that that. More like 1/1000 across all different intersex conditions.

It's not a spectrum because they are all discrete sets of attributes. You can't be partway between 2 intersex conditions.

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>>8173137
Male or female. Those are what your chromosomes can be.

>>8173919
It is a spectrum. That's that lying and delusion I was just talking about you conservatives all having.

>>8174038
I have both XX and XY cell lines in my body. What sex am I? I'll give you a hint, I was born with both ovarian and testicular tissues.

>>8174054
Biological sex is not a spectrum.

>>8174056
What side got more developed? I'm sorry you're one of the rare one-in-a-million with a birth defect.

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>>8159532
Never forget the facts made by the almighty god of truth, Science, and his messenger Bill Nye.

>>8174064
Yeah, that's that lying and delusion I wasjust talking about you doing.

>>8174090
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-determination_system Prove this wrong.

I'm not even a fucking conservative, get the /pol/boogeyman out of you head.

>>8174098
Why would I try to prove you wrong when you're nobody and you're lying on purpose, conservative?

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>>8174171
Great argument retard.

>>8174078
My conditions are less rare than that. They used to think chimerism was extremely rare, but people with multiple distinct cell lines are turning up all over. I'm my own twin. Also people with both ovarian and testicular tissues are showing up in increasing numbers as doctors begin to know what to look for.

You said chromosomes can tell. I have roughly 70% XX cells and 30%XY cells.

>>8174178
It is. Conservatives can never be right because they try to be wrong. This is a fact.

>>8174226
Instead of whining about conservatives like a retard why don't you try actually refuting the argument?

>>8174226
this.
conservashits denied gays, then trans now the ultimate pill has them so buttrustled we had to wait for cuckada to push through bill c.16.
prep your anus redpill it's going in raw.

>>8174232
But that's tl;dr lies you disease.

>>8174251
I'm sorry for not wanting to celebrate the normalization of a mental illness where 50% of them end of killing themselves.

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>>8174183
It's almost like a conceptual paradigm shift in science leads to scientists asking different questions and therefore arriving at different answers. Almost like the underlying, more abstract philosophical questions of science where as important to it's process as the mechinical day-to-day grind. Really makes you etc etc

Pic not related.

>>8174260
You're not wrong about anything you've done, including how you've chosen to be a worthless disease every single day of your life.

>>8174400
You're not *sorry about anything you've done.

>>8174392
Once they discovered that the sex determination system in humans is controlled by many more than one gene, and can change it's target sex part way through gestation, it opened the flood gates. This ability for the target sex to change most likely accounts for intersexuals with mixed genitalia, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, non-sexuals, transgenders, non-binaries, and agenders. It all depends on when and how often the target sex changes during gestation and the first 4 to 6 months after birth. Males seam to need to have a testosterone surge just after birth. Females don't need an estrogen surge.

>>8159532
So if you neither man nor lady, what defines you? What are acceptable pronouns to use and how can I tell when to use the appropriate ones.

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>>8174475
>So if you neither man nor lady, what defines you?

Basically the amount of time you spend shitposting on twitter, and your collection of smug pepes and animu reaction images.

From this day foward depending on your online smugness and amount of daily shitposting we will define your sexuality.

Daily reminder that Bill Nye's show promotes self-genocide, also known as suicide-by-incel.
https://twitter.com/CR_Morgan/status/857023707558105089

>>8174056
Then your a special case. Do you have a dick or a pussy?

>>8174475
I would normally say "they" unless they specify which pronoun to use. Nobody gets offended by "they" because you also use it when you don't actually know the gender of the person and don't want to assume.

>>8165185

>he's a mechanical engineer

No he isn't. He has a degree that he does not use. He's a T.V. show host. Always has been.

>>8175046
I have an English degree that I don't use but that doesn't make me any less of an English pro.

>>8169843
Yeah, this comes across as a media circus. I'm seeing all sorts of people cracking jokes and just doubling down on their own bigotry because of this; it doesn't foster a dialogue, it just uses the idea of educating people on gender as a prop for a shitty music number.

>>8170092
So speak up. You may think Milo is a sack of shit, but he's out there, converting these prejudiced people to accept gays, and being demonized for it, despite being 100x more effective than this Bill Nye shit I just saw.

These fucking tumblr SJW fuckhead ASSHOLES need to be put in their fucking place, but it's not going to happen if gay people stay on the plantation and don't fucking SPEAK UP. And if gays don't speak up, they will be seen as tacitly approving of this shit.

t. straight alt-right cishet who is just fucking FINE with gays and marched with them for gay marriage 10 years ago

>>8175583
This. I don't even like (((Milo))) but he singlehandedly made conservatives into more accepting of gays while this degenerate tranny feminist shit on TV just repulses everyone, including me.

>>8175586
He did not make conservatives more accepting of gay people, they just liked how he bashed gay people.

>>8175627
Wrong.

>>8175641
Prove it.

>>8175627
He bashes everyone, he's a comedian. Just look at /pol/'s shift in attitude towards gays pre and post Milo. You may not like his methods but they are effective.

>>8159635
I'm a giraffe.

Christ why am I on a containment board?

>>8175627
Being self-deprecating is not the same as bashing. He got the fucking Brietbart comment section to defend his sexuality.

>>8175799
This is utter bullshit. Much of /pol/ still does not give an actual shit about us or Milo and think he's a degenerate Jew shill race-mixing faggot cuck who only serves well to lure blue pilled normie cucks into conservatism at most, and nothing else, especially after the whole pedophilia thing with him.

>>8175829
> t. someone unfamiliar with /pol/ board culture

There's been surveys on /pol/ and attitudes have changed. The majority of /pol/ might still be against gay marriage but they mostly want gays left alone instead of gassed.

>>8166349
It's nothing like religion, actually. A belief in a god cannot be rooted in the abstract, but in the physical, like a testimony of a person seeing X. The gender spectrum is an abstract theory, thus it's not a belief but pure speculation.

>>8175841
>mostly don't want us gassed
Wow what allies

>>8175853
Get over yourself. I'm not your fucking ally if your goal is the downfall of Western Civ. Keep up the bitterness and maybe we'll change our minds back.

>>8175829
>a degenerate Jew shill race-mixing faggot cuck who only serves well to lure blue pilled normie cucks into conservatism at most
This post has to be satire. There's no way someone can type this with a straight face.

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>>8175888
But why does it matter if you change your minds?

>>8175944
Trump is LGBT friendly. No, he's not a cultural marxist forcing gender-neutral bathrooms, but he's not trying to pass laws making your life more difficult.

Some of you chucklefucks aren't even old enough to remember in the 2000s when W. was trying to pass a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage nationwide.

>>8175968
Nothing I said was anti-Trump, what I said was anti-/pol/. I'm not going to suddenly pretend like you matter just because Trump waved a flag on a stage.

I remember Republicans laughing about AIDs just as well as I remember Democrats pushing DOMA. Don't give me any of that shit, I'm not going to be fooled into equating one person with the entire party, and Trump is hardly a typical Republican.

>>8175983
Trump is reshaping the Republican party in his image. If you can't see that, you're being willfully blind.

And it's fine to be anti-/pol/, where did I say supporting pol was required? My point is gay conservatives do far more for tolerance than gay liberals. Much of the fear of LGBT is you want to turn our entire culture upside down, and videos like the one in Bill Nye do nothing to allay those concerns.

>>8175992
Why are you damage controlling /pol/ so hard? Are you really that assblasted over the board being comprised of a large amount of bigoted people?

>>8175968
I wish he would learn to talk so that his responses aren't so rambling and incoherent.

>>8176002
This has to be bait. I take the time to explain /pol/ to you and you go off on how assblasted I must be. I'm only assblasted for responding to a moron or bait.

>>8176005
Obama was just as bad when he went off script. Honestly there aren't many good orators in American politics.

>>8174251
>lives in Cuckada

>>8176045
Then maybe he should follow a script instead of walking into every public appearance like the kid who didn't do his homework. Anything to make him sound even remotely intelligent.

>>8175935
I was paraphrasing /pol/tards.

>>8175888
Why are you on the /lgbt/ board if you think our goal is the downfall of Western Civilisation?

>watching this episode with my mom
>only two weeks after admitting to myself that I'm trans so pre-everything
>say "I wonder what that would be like" implying I have no idea what being trans is like
>pretty sure she bought it

>>8176090
/lgbt/ is not LGBT. If you were, you wouldn't be here, you'd be on some safe space forum. Some (most?) of you guys are alright.

>>8176136
She is going to blame Bill Nye when you come out.

>>8176171

>/lgbt/ is not LGBT.

I guess we have very different definitions of an acronym.

>>8176171
>/lgbt/ is not LGBT.
Uhhh, yes it is, bar a few bored lurkers every know and then and the chasers on the tranny generals. I'm wondering why you're here, trying to talk with us, if you've already determined that our goal is the downfall of your culture.

>you wouldn't be here, you'd be on some safe space forum.
Well then there are certainly more gays and trannies on 4chan than you think

>>8176209
Ok, let me spell it out for you.
/lgbt/ isn't /r/lgbt just like /pol/ isn't /r/politics

>>8176225
Sorry for not being clear. I meant /lgbt/ culture is not the larger culture I see across reddit/tumblr/etc. I can actually have a dialogue here whereas elsewhere anything that goes against the LGBT™ agenda is an instaban.

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>>8176257
heyheyhey Warbring3r.

>>8174038

Apparently this screen cap is fake, fyi

>>8176238
>>8176257
You should at least understand that these places are self-proclaimed "safe spaces" which have silly rules and moderators and are not places for uncensored albeit respectful discussion.

But it's just I'm not really sure what you're expecting when you come onto a board full of trannies and gays and try to tell them that they actually have a goal to subvert your culture. It just doesn't seem like very productive or valuable discussion at all so you'll usually be shown the door.

>>8176347
I never said /lgbt/ was trying to subvert. That's the whole point.

Have you folks seen this? Even a mod chimed in on the discussion. Not on the site itself, of course, that would make too much sense.

http://observer.com/2017/04/why-4chan-isnt-buying-what-bill-nye-and-political-entertainers-are-selling/

>>8176891
Shit site, won't allow me without disabling adblock.

That mod needs to lose his mod status if he thinks 4chan has a single opinion.

It's an anonymous image board, not a political alignment.

>>8176891

heh. 69.

>>8176942
>That mod needs to lose his mod status if he thinks 4chan has a single opinion.
Well, it's funny you say that, because the article specifically begins
>One of the major misconceptions about the irreverent, influential website 4chan is an error corporate media has perpetuated for years. Time and again, 4chan is portrayed as a cohesive hive mind with users collaborating across boards to troll their way to a mutually desired endgame for politics, culture and the world.

>Nothing could be further from the truth. There are over 25 million monthly users on the 69 boards that reside on the 4chan website. And their opinions and world views vary as much as you would expect in any community of millions.

So the title is basically clickbaity as fuck and the logic is inconsistent because he still suggests that 4chan is now a hivemind pushing back against the left.

Anyway, here's an archive link for your benefit:
http://archive.is/K8hxL

>>8176891
>Not on the site itself, of course, that would make too much sense.
How would that make sense? We're already here, we can see what's happening. That's like taking a bombed Syrian child and informing him that Syrian children are being bombed.

>>8177005
The mods are notoriously uncommunicative about just about anything happening on the site yet they have time to write an opinion piece for some Jewish-owned site to make a quick buck.

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>>8175968
>LGBT friendly
>Mike Pence
>Republican
>Religious doctrine
>States rights
>Revoking Executive Order 13673
>Revoking trans students from using what bathrooms they like
>Pro LGBT

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

>>8175992
>My point is gay conservatives do far more for tolerance than gay liberals.

How far up your own ass are you? You actually believe the bible belt and conservative america is more tolerant of gays than liberal areas? How fucking naive can you be? Have you once stepped outside?

Uncle Toms like yourself are actual cancer. All because some college kids are obnoxious, you want to jump in bed with religious extremists.

>>8177052
>States rights
Wow a political opinion unconnected to LGBT is now anti-LGBT! I'm sure you're not a leftard at all!

>>8177067
Oh you're gonna pretend states right hasn't always been connected to minority and women's rights? It's never been a traditionalist war cry yelled when they want to subjugate?

Ok buddy. I'd tell you a history book is in order, but I doubt you can read.

Tell me though, why be pro-states rights on LGBT rights and not federal LGBT rights? What's the downside? Let me hear your bullshit excuse. I need another good laugh.

Are you being paid or are you naturally a self-hating calyton bigsby-eske dipshit? Literal stockholm syndrome.


Which side is pro conversion therapy? Pro life? Anti hate crime laws? Anti EO 1126? Wants to unite church and state?

Take a wild guess. Do you think it's conservatives or liberals?

>>8177052
Pence doesn't actually seem too bothered by gays. That ECT thing is apparently just a big hoax spread by leftists.

>>8177092
>Pence doesn't actually seem too bothered by gays.

"societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family."

"Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage."

"Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexuals as a "discreet and insular minority" entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities."

"Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."

"We ought not to use the American military as a backdrop for social experimentation or debating domestic policy issues."

"The federal government has not business getting involved in issues of this nature,"

Yeah man, he sounds tolerant af...

>>8177127
When did he say any of this?

>>8177174
Why don't you google any of them and see for yourself?

4chan thinks links are spam.

>>8177127
Most of those are right.

>>8177193
If you're anti LGBT, sure.

Most of them can't be justified without religious subjugation.

Specifically
>Societal collapse
>Recognize heterosexual marriage but not homosexual
>Resources should be assigned instead to conversion therapy

>>8177127
>"societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family."
This isn't untrue. Gay people also aren't barred from being involved in marriage and family (that's one of the big talking points, actually). And even if they were, 10% of the population who was born a certain way that bars them from marriage and family is no more a threat to the rest of society's values than people born with mental retardation or some shit.

>"Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage."
Name 10 politicians who've never spoken against gay marriage.

>"Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexuals as a "discreet and insular minority" entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities."
I'm not really sure what he's saying here. What does the notion of being a discreet, insular minority have to do with entitlement to protection? Women aren't exactly a discreet, insular minority.

>"Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."
This is misguided, but not entirely worthless. People who practice unsafe sex SHOULD be given assistance in changing that behaviour. Pence just makes the mistake of thinking being gay is a lifestyle choice and inherently more risky than heterosexuality.

>"We ought not to use the American military as a backdrop for social experimentation or debating domestic policy issues."
>"The federal government has not business getting involved in issues of this nature,"
Well that's just, like, his opinion, man.

>>8177198
I'm LGBT myself and the conversion therapy one is the only one I'm against.

>>8177220
>Women aren't exactly a discreet, insular minority.
Special entitlements such as quotas are given to favored groups, regardless of discreteness, insularity and being a minority. That's why with all major politicians captive to leftist interests it's women and ethnic minorities that get them. Pence is independent-minded enough to think it shouldn't extend to LGBT people without being outside the left-wing consensus to think the special entitlements shouldn't exist at all.

>This isn't untrue
So you're destroying America? Why not kill yourself?

>Name 10 politicians who've never spoken against gay marriage.
Sanders, Lautenberg, Menendez, Merkley, Inouye, Durbin, Blumenthal.

All liberals. All democrats.

>Gay people also aren't barred from being involved in marriage and family (that's one of the big talking points, actually).
He's verbatim arguing in favor of this.

>This is misguided, but not entirely worthless
You're being intellectually dishonest with this statement. You're being irrationally charitable to political issues you agree with. Stop the bullshit, or stop wasting my time.


>People who practice unsafe sex SHOULD be given assistance in changing that behavior.
"Assistance" being conversion therapy.
You don't get to be charitable and cry it's just a misunderstanding, which seems to be the goto Trump defense.

>>8177262
>Special entitlements such as quotas

What quotas? For what?

>>8177262
I'm gonna take off, but I'm going to assume you're talking about affirmative action.

As a international business student who studies this, executive order 11246 signed by Lydon Johnson that enacted AA explicitly forbids quotas.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=3b71cb5b215c393fe910604d33c9fed1&rgn=div5&view=text&node=41:1.2.3.1.2&idno=41

>(1) Placement goals may not be rigid and inflexible quotas, which must be met, nor are they to be considered as either a ceiling or a floor for the employment of particular groups. Quotas are expressly forbidden.

>(3) Placement goals do not create set-asides for specific groups, nor are they intended to achieve proportional representation or equal results.

Any conservatives reading this will disregard it so idk why I bother. Feels over reals. I see this lie repeated by the right constantly, yet it's so easily debunked.

>>8177297
>As a international business student who studies this
>Feels over reals.

Nice try, but wrong.

>the Reagan administration was opposed to the affirmative action requirements of this Executive Order and contemplated modifying it to prohibit employers from using "quotas, goals, or other numerical objectives, or any scheme[,] device, or technique that discriminates against, or grants any preference to, any person on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin." The contemplated change was never issued

A proposal to ban quotas was never issued.

The executive order only applied to the fed anyway, not state, municipal and private (most employment, all good colleges) institutions.

>I'm gonna take off,
Spout lies then flee because you know they'll be called out.

Typical left-winger.

>>8177311
No, it's because they actually have work, unlike you unemployed right wingers who stalk Shia Labeouf because you don't have jobs.

>>8177316
>get exposed for lies
>y-you don't have a job!
Classy.

>>8177332
So you don't, huh? The alt-right, everyone...

>>8177342
See >>8177332

>>8177348
>I got BTFO so I'll just repeat myself.

>>8177342
>anyone who isn't control-left is alt-right

>>8177352
Replied to the wrong post >>8177342

>>8177367
Idiot.

>>8177376
>this butthurt over being called out over lies and evasion

>>8177267
>So you're destroying America? Why not kill yourself?

Individuals =/= entirity of society.
Society would also collapse if everyone was a man, that doesn't mean men should all die.

>Sanders, Lautenberg, Menendez, Merkley, Inouye, Durbin, Blumenthal.
That's 7.

>He's verbatim arguing in favor of this.
I realise that, my point is that the statement itself isn't automatically homophobic or untrue.
If I cut out fat in pursuit of a healthy diet and am informed that fat is actually a vital component of a healthy diet, that doesn't mean I was wrong to want a healthy diet, just that I had some misconceptions leading me astray in striving for it.
Assuming Pence is open to reason (and no, there's no reason to assume any human being with an opinion is open to reason), he could quite easily hold his core values of family and marriage dear while also opening himself up to lgbt equality with no contradiction.

>You're being intellectually dishonest with this statement. You're being irrationally charitable to political issues you agree with. Stop the bullshit, or stop wasting my time.
If you don't want your time wasted, I suggest getting off 4chan.

>You don't get to be charitable and cry it's just a misunderstanding
I think you'll find I do. Free speech, nigga.
And I wasn't claiming it was a misunderstanding, I was again saying that the core value he's demonstrating is fine, but his perception of the problem is misguided.

I'm not arguing that he's actually in favour of protecting marriage equality and protections because those would lead to society placing more value on marriage and fewer homosexuals taking place in risky sexual activity. I'm just saying that if he'd open his mind for a minute, he'd realise gay rights are the way to go for the values he claims to be fighting for.

>>8177382
Nobody falls for your alt-right shitposting on /lgbt/.

>>8177332
This guy
>>8177316
you're responding to is a different poster

Biz student here. I cannot make it anymore clear.

"The regulations at 41 CFR 60-2.12(e), 60-2.30 and 60-2.15, specifically prohibit quota and preferential hiring and promotions under the guise of affirmative action numerical goals. In other words, discrimination in the selection decision is prohibited.”
-Oregon DOT, 2007

I can cite this by a hundred thousand counties, cities, and state ordinances.

>"Affirmative action program goals are not to be used as quotas which must be achieved through race-based and gender-based preferences."
-U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, 1995

>"...however, race- or gender-based hiring and promotion are not required, and quotas are prohibited."
-The Office Of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (Dol),

Want me to keep going?

>but muh reagan
I don't know it's entire history, and neither do you. But what I'm giving you is the present day law. It says, verbatim "Quotas are expressly forbidden".

>>8177297

So what IS affirmative action then? Different anon here and just curious. But that link has a whole lot of words, and you've debunked the quota myth to my satisfaction in the span of a post, so do me a solid?

Is this thread good?

>>8177400
>Individuals =/= entirity of society.
Individuals make up the entirety of society.

>Society would also collapse if everyone was a man, that doesn't mean men should all die.
Broken analogy. If all men damaged society, then yes, all men should die.

>I realise that, my point is that the statement itself isn't automatically homophobic or untrue.
And my point is you're being irrational and are therefor worthless to this conversation. You've proven yourself unable to be objective. Nothing I say, and no evidence I show, will affect you. I gave at least five instances of Pence being outright hostile to LGBT rights. You brushed them aside with "well...that's not really what he probably meant".

>If you don't want your time wasted, I suggest getting off 4chan.
You can rephrase this to "yes I'm retarded, if you don't like it, you can leave!" and have it mean the same thing.

Saying gender is a social construct is basically admitting its all bullshit, and that really their interpretation is no more valid than the the idea of there being only two genders.

There is nothing scientific or objective about it, there is no falsifiability, there is no essence, anything can mean man or women since nothing is essential to being one. You can just say you're some xir shit and it can't be disproven since the definition is arbitrary.

>>8175583
At the cost of throwing lesbians and transpeople under the bus.

Blair White is helping to undo some of that but ffs.

>>8177404
>you're responding to is a different poster
I wouldn't out up with someone defending my position with lies and ad homs.

>Biz student here. I cannot make it anymore clear.
You have been thoroughly debunked >>8177311

Interesting that you ignore that post pointing out multiple ways you are wrong.

I don't give a shit what you study or who you are.

>>8177408
His claim is that it's only preferential hiring, not mandatory hiring. For example, counting being black as meaning somebody should be hired/admitted over an equally or better qualified white, but not setting aside a certain percentage of places/jobs for blacks.

Texas does a trick where it requires the top students from each area get college places. Since some areas are majority minority, this is effectively a quota but technically isn't.

>>8177430
>you have been thoroughly debunked

I forgot that posting verbatim law as it stands in 2017 is superseded by a wikipedia post that cites a political written in 1998. A book I can't even find any information on because the writer has one 1-star review and zero internet presence and has never been referenced.

My bad

>>8177427
Saying something is a social construct doesn't mean that it's not real, or important.
Time, money, the internet, those are all social constructs.

>>8177450
cites a political book*

>>8177408
biz student again

Investopedia has pretty good definitions
What is 'Affirmative Action'
Affirmative action is a policy in which an individual's color, race, sex, religion or national origin are taken into account by a business or the government in order to increase the opportunities provided to an underrepresented part of society. Affirmative action is designed to increase the number of people from certain groups within businesses, institutions and other areas of society in which they have historically had low representation. It is often considered a means of countering historical discrimination against a particular group.


BREAKING DOWN 'Affirmative Action'
In the United States, affirmative action came to prominence in the 1960s as a way to promote equal opportunity across the various groups within society. It was developed as a way to enforce the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which sought to eliminate discrimination.

>>8177450
The president knew you were wrong.

States know you are wrong.

Private institutions know you are wrong.

The only thing on your side is the magic phrase "biz student".

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's rain.

>>8177482
>an individual's color, race, sex, religion or national origin are taken into account by a business or the government in order to increase the opportunities
this contradicts
>promote equal opportunity
>sought to eliminate discrimination
this

>>8177482
>Investopedia has pretty good definitions
I hope you aren't Mr "a wikipedia post that cites a political written in 1998"

>>8177425
>Broken analogy. If all men damaged society, then yes, all men should die.
Well that's a pretty extreme stance.
And that's not analogous with what Pence was saying either, since he wasn't saying gays are damaging and should die, just that destruction of marriage/family is damaging.
He does seem to think gays play a part in the cause of that destruction, which I'd argue is completely backwards, but that doesn't mean his placing value on marriage/family is wrong.

>And my point is you're being irrational and are therefor worthless to this conversation. You've proven yourself unable to be objective. Nothing I say, and no evidence I show, will affect you. I gave at least five instances of Pence being outright hostile to LGBT rights. You brushed them aside with "well...that's not really what he probably meant".
I'm merely playing devil's advocate, m'lady.

>You can rephrase this to "yes I'm retarded, if you don't like it, you can leave!" and have it mean the same thing.
...No, it really wouldn't. I could add that to my statements, or replace one of my actual arguments with it. But of everything I've said, the one thing I think you really should be able to agree with is that being here is a complete waste of time. Fuck, you said it yourself twice. It's basically the 'water is wet' amongst what admittedly is mostly just shitposting for giggles.

Christ, what a pseudo-intellectual little bitch.

>>8177494
You're right my man. You have a book written from 1998 by a author no one knows that doesn't even tackle my main point. All I have is directly linked law from 2017.

How can I compete?

Edit: I even found the ruling that made forbade quotas. Not that you care about facts.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/438/265/case.html

>>8177500
It doesn't.

Look more closely at the wording used. Increased opportunity. It's not giving minorities anything but opportunities that they wouldn't normally have.

>>8177528
>This guy knows things, I'll call him a pseudo-intellectual

Fuck. I just got wrecked. I thought I'd use citations and links and shit, boy was I a dumbass.

>>8177537
>hurr acting condescending is the same as saying facts, right?
Go home, Bill, you're drunk.

>>8177532
>Not that you care about facts.
That's rich considering all the uncomfortable truths you're ignoring.

>I even found the ruling that made forbade quotas.
Quote the passage about state institutions.

Quote the passage about private institutions.

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>>8159532
Only a few more posts and this shitty thread will auto-sage.
Praise Jesus!

>>8177532
Here's the ruling taken from PBS

"The Court held that the medical school racially discriminated against whites because it excluded them from 16 out of 100 spots solely by virtue of their race. The fact that blacks have historically had been discriminated against more than whites was irrelevant to this case, because racial quota systems, whether applied against whites or blacks, are always "odious to a free people whose institutions are founded upon the doctrine of equality."

>>8177548
stay mad my man. Feelies over realies :^)

>>8177549
>Quote the passage about state institutions.
Above :^)

>Quote the passage about private institutions.
Uh, how do I disprove something that doesn't exist? Affirmative action as taken by EO 11246 is by and for federal employers and their contractors. As far as I know, private businesses aren't beholden to it if they're not selling to the gov.

"When a private company sells more than $50,000 in products or services to the federal government and employs at least 50 workers, it must develop a written affirmative action plan, or AAP."

"A common misconception is that hiring quotas are required by affirmative action. Under E.O. 11246, quotas are unlawful and are therefore unacceptable by government standards."

I haven't seen the new bill show and im not going to apart from a cringe clip of someone singing badly about their vaginas.

But I love it, the rightists online and their media are getting so triggered by the show. It's amazing.

>>8177574
>stay mad my man. Feelies over realies :^)

Can't be mad when shitposting, friend. Stay deluded. <@:-)

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>>8177573
How do you feel about this man?

>>8177579
They can tack it on as another thing they'll boycott. Such as Nestle, Kellog, Apple, Nordstrom, Macy's, HBO, Univision, Nabisco, and Starbucks.

>>8177574
>it excluded them from 16 out of 100 spots
...I'm not normally one to dismiss racism against whites, but they're really going to cry about 16/100 spots?

>>8177574
>Above :^)
Doesn't mention the state.

>As far as I know, private businesses aren't beholden to it if they're not selling to the gov.
So after all your protestations, you admit I was right from the start.

>>8177579
>taking pleasure in people who could be a threat to you being angered by a misrepresentation of what you are and why you deserve rights

>>8177609
No because you said "affirmative action discriminates."

I said "no it doesn't", and provided facts.

You then said "well show me where it doesn't force private businesses to discriminate. You only showed that it doesn't for the public sector and their contractors."

So I said "Private businesses aren't beholden to affirmative action." I.e. I can't prove something that doesn't exist. You'd have to prove that private businesses not only discriminate, but do so at the behest of the federal government. Something that would get you famous if you did.

And now you're saying "TOLD YOU"?

>>8177627
I also want to add that I really don't want to be a dick. If you'll admit that maybe affirmative action isn't the quota creation machine that's giving niggers all the white people's jobs then I'd be happy and pretty impressed.

That's honestly all I want. Because you're passionate about something, and you study it, and then you see people being blatantly wrong about it. It's kinda irritating. It's like being a marine biologist and hearing people tell you that goldfish, aren't fish.

>>8177532
>It's not giving minorities anything but opportunities that they wouldn't normally have.
What could that possibly mean if not unequal, discriminatory treatment in their favor?

>inb4 a non-answer

>>8177598
How would you feel if you were denied a job or education opportunity because of your race or sex?

>>8177652

It doesn't really sound like people were explicitly denied, just that their opportunity was slightly reduced.
I don't really see much difference between applying for one out of 100 available spots at a school, vs applying for one out of 84 spots.
But I'm pretty easy going.

>>8177645
Literally it means fed branches of the gov (like your local social security office or DMV) had to write up a pledge that they won't discriminate based on race, sex, gender, etc.

It's why you see the = symbol and "we're an equal opportunity employer" or "we offer equal opportunity housing".

Private businesses don't have to, but will generally utilize federal guidelines that the fed imposes on themselves.

I'm mincing it pretty hard, but I think anyone who wants to talk about biz law should at least take a biz law class first. That'd be nice

If you read into AA, it's a far cry from the "The gov created anti-white secret police and routinely sends them to white neighborhoods, who then fines them for not hiring non-qualified negros!

>>8177639
I never said AA was necessarily quotas. I'm willing to believe federal AA doesn't involve quotas as such.

State AA and private AA (yes, yes, when they aren't at the behest of the fed)? Not so much.

The fed can still perform de facto quotas, like Texas and California forced colleges to do, without breaking that technical prohibition.

>>8176266
Mods leaving up a doxx post on /LGBT/. Hmmmm

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I have ADD, please be considerate and write short posts.

>>8177761
Where are all these state and private AA cases?

How is Texas and California forcing colleges to enroll X amount of Y race?

Cite that shit.

>>8176030
>I take the time to damage control /pol/ to you
Fixed. You realize /pol/ isn't some secret club or anything, right? We can just click on the board and see all the stupid bigoted views you guys have, and saying HEY MOST OF US DONT WANT TO GAS GAYS doesnt really make me give a shit about your community.

Deflecting onto the changes made in the Republican party is pathetic and has nothing to do with your garbage board. Eat shit and don't come back.

>>8177697
>equal opportunity
>give preference to minorities
>equal
no

>>8178297
>"Affirmative action program goals are not to be used as quotas which must be achieved through race-based and gender-based preferences"

You need to learn to read.

>>8178353
>Look more closely at the wording used. Increased opportunity. It's not giving minorities anything but opportunities that they wouldn't normally have.
> Increased opportunity.
thats not equal

>>8178388
Ok then. You convinced me.

>X is true because this, this and this
>No it's not

Fuck. Who is this Harvard master bator over here? These debate tactics, I've never seen anything like it.

>>8177573
Oh good for you! Too bad there's two more threads about this same exact thing and there will be more after that! You dipshit.