can someone find me historical precedent for transgenderism in

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>>8072067
Only in a religious context, really. But eunuchs were very much incorporated into Byzantine society, performing roles unique to their third gender. They inspired the depictions of angels in later artwork.

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Notice the androgynous appearance of Michael, and his Romanesque attire.

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>>8072067
>roman
Castrati were incredibly common in byzantinum and by the Macedonian dynasty were used as governors, administrators, officials and even the church patirach. And those were all from good families. http://erenow.com/postclassical/byzantium-the-surprising-life-of-a-medieval-empire/16.html neobyzantium.com/the-vital-roles-of-eunuchs-in-byzantium/

Even the angel iconography you saw in all of the byzantine art was based on their castrati

Supposedly, the 3rd centry Emperor Elagabulus would not only dress up as a woman, but promised a fortune to any physician that could make him a real woman.

>>8072113
That's based off the byzantine style that started off the Renaissance
>>8072096
neoplatonism did put them as a third sex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

>>8072115
>castrati

You mean eunuchs. Castrati refers specifically to a type of singing voice most commonly obtained by castrating a male youth before puberty.

>Castrati were incredibly common in byzantinum and by the Macedonian dynasty were used as governors, administrators, officials and even the church patirach

Eunuchs were incredibly common in most of human history across all societies: from the Romans to the Chinese to the Mesoamericans and the Vikings.

Some reading, on Attis:
http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/momma.html
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hymn_to_the_mother_of_the_gods

>>8072130
Castrati sounds better so I'm using it. And the byzantines introduced castrati choirs to europe.

>Romans to the Chinese to the Mesoamericans and the Vikings.
The west romans never made them pope. Neither did the vikings. And the chineese mostly just did it to poor children and used them for the palace.

So using them for religous leadership, and for all sorts of high postitions, and prestigous families being okay with their kids ending up like that is is different.

And at any rate they were considered a third sex.

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>>8072194
>Castrati sounds better so I'm using it.

Sorry to break it to you, but history has nothing to do with your aesthetic preferences. You're wrong in using the term 'castrati', since this is a musical term: the proper term is a 'eunuch'. Stop acting like a little petulant bitch.

>The west romans never made them pope

So? In Roman society, many priests of various pagan cults were eunuchs, and thus, they fulfilled important religious roles before the advent of Christianity.

>Neither did the vikings

Wrong again. Among the Viking cultural group, eunuchs regularly held power in the form of shamans or priests, and they were considered to be close to the gods and spirits.

>And the chineese

Various eunuchs variously held the true power behind the throne during China's many dynasties. They were greatly esteemed, and held offices of high prestige that even the scholar-bureaucrats couldn't ordinarily hope to attain.

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Transwomen go way back. Also native tribes called it being two spirited, and those individuals often held a higher place in the society as they had both a male and female perspective making them have a better sense of judgement.

>>8072263
>various pagan cults
Mystery cults don't have the same level of importance as being the head of the state religion. Especially when it has as much influence as the orthodox church did.

>held the true power behind the throne
Which is very different from being given official positions and official power that are actually important and holding the same office other aristocrats did.

>>8072278
It hurts to look at desu. Why didn't they just castrate like civilized people?

I consider the conception of the male-to-female transsexual to be nothing more than the result of contemporary cultural prescriptions, forcing the breadth of human expression through a funnel of unnecessary psychological analysis and a misapplication of science. Why should I pander to a doctor who is a slave to dualistic thinking, masquerading as his perception of a woman, in order to seek treatment. Why do I have to fit in to one of two boxes, neither of which are appropriate, just because of the homosexual distinction, and the discomfort that causes people. Since animal husbandry, people knew the effects of castration. No, it doesn't make you a woman, but it makes you something other than a man. And if someone doesn't believe that, I implore them to draw a hot knife across their flesh, to look me in the eyes, and say they've not changed. Luckily I found a doctor who understood me. He understood perfectly. I live as a woman because our society has no language to describe me like the ancients did, no place for me, no acknowledgement that I may be perfectly normal as I am. Instead I'm forced to choose the lesser of two evils. There may be many so-called transsexuals who are like me, who would not live as women if they could live as they are. But the goddess' shrines are gone, aren't they. Nothing left but rubble on Vatican Hill. People will take what they can get, whatever outlet works best for them. Ill-fitted as it might be.

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>>8072303
Maybe you're just a femboy?

>>8072303
Ew. Get out of here, he/she

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>>8072295
Are you stupid? I mean, you do realize Roman paganism existed for almost 2000 years, right? From the time of the Roman Kingdom to the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, the Roman state was pagan: only for a tiny fraction of its history did it embrace Christianity, in the 3rd and 4th centuries.

The pagan cults had a huge level of importance: they were the state religion.

>Especially when it has as much influence as the orthodox church did.

Bitch please. The Orthodox Church has had almost no significant contribution to the Western world at large. The Catholic (Latin) Church arguably has, but the Orthodox has only been significant to Eastern Europe and Russia.

God, I can already tell you're some Christfag edgelord who unironically - and proudly - calls himself a reactionary.

>>8072314
The beauty of the third gender is that it preempts the nonsense of attack helicopters, Nurgle and mayonnaise. Ideally, society ought to support the concept as a sort of release valve for malcontents. Maybe then there wouldn't be so many posters here wearing over-sized sweaters in their "boy mode" hiding cone tits from passersby. Part of the deal is that we need our own role, a third set of expectations in terms of coupling and the division of labor. No, but we must put square pegs into round holes.

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>>8072362
Yes, and they had Jupiter and their other gods. But those weren't mystery cults. And they didn't make the head of their state religion a castrated boy. roman mystery cults were tollarated but they weren't an all powerful state religion.
>but the Orthodox
Asides from the fact Byzantium preserved all of europe's knowledge, and that all of the European art starting from the Carolingian to the early Renaissance was borrowed from byzantine iconograpy.

>The Catholic (Latin) Church arguably has
Which was shit poor and spent the middle ages genociding people in the baltics and plundering and attempting to subjugate the wealthier Hellenes.

I'm not even a rightist or religous, this is just basic shit from uni and I happened to like byzantinum.

It's crazy how you came in here talking about everything only being legit if it's tradition, and here you are calling me reactionary.

>>8072067
TRANSGENDERISM CAUSED THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE
Discuss.

>>8072452
Eastern roman empire was rife with transgenderism during it's zenith. When they dominated the mediteranian and central europe and had run their only rivals the Fatimids back into egypt.

I don't know/care about Rome but here's a PBS page about different cultures that have a traditional third gender

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/

>>8072120
>>8072122
Total AGP.

>>8072067
Although not really totally related I just want everyone to remember the best femboy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporus

>>8072067
There was this story about a person who got changed from a man to a woman because the gods wanted to know who got the most pleasure during the act, and they said it was the woman.

Think it was a greek myth, and I don't remember the name.

>>8074208

Tiresias was the name of the guy. I remember reading that story on Wikipedia back in middle school and wishing that would happen to me.

>>8072120
I recall he used to whore himself out
and that's not even the worst thing he did