What do you consider a 'tasteful' portrayal of LGBT

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>>8038500

>>8038534

Nigger

>>8038500
I really don't care much about representation, but imo the easiest way to avoid tokenism is to write good characters that just so happen to be LGBT. Like, don't bring it up unless it's important. One of my favorite examples is Diana from White Collar. She's a bad ass FBI agent who happens to be a lesbian. Her sexuality is never the focus of her character since it isn't important to the story's plot. That's my two cents anyway. TL;DR: Write LGBT characters like you'd write everyone else.

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>tasteful
Mitch from ParaNorman

>ingenuine opportunistic virtue-signaling
Every single other "gay" character I've ever seen, outside of gay movies made for/by gays(and the majority of them too)... at least every one I can remember.

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People don't know what they want, which is why you frequently get people saying that characters who are mentioned as gay for half a second and never bring it up ever again is good representation

On the other hand, I also hate the characters defined solely by the fact they're gay and don't have any personality outside of it, or those who have been mostly straight throughout a series or franchise but were changed to gay just to pander to the progressive crowd

What people don't realize is that there's a middle ground: a character can act gay for more than 3 seconds and still have a personality
It's extremely fucking rare but I've seen quite a few, and it's honestly fulfilling in a way

Blue is the warmest color in a way.

Boys don't cry did a pretty good job for trans FTM. I don't think a single movie had handled MTF well.

>>8038884
Kinda sad that the only good movie for FtMs is one where the FtM dies. But I guess it IS based on a true story.

>>8038855
give an example

I mean in real life with straight people it's not like they talk about being straight, if a gay character had their sexuality be shown for more than a second then how could that be done without it being overdone?

>>8038890
>tfw I went into that not knowing it was going to whiplash so hard

>>8038500
Mitch & Cam from Modern Family
Will and Jack from Will & Grace
Rupaul

>>8038906
>I mean in real life with straight people it's not like they talk about being straight
They do, you just don't notice because it's normal for them to talk about being straight
They can brag all they want about the hot bitch they totally banged last week and no one will call attention to it because it's normal

>>8038906
I'm repeating myself, but Diana from White Collar is A+. She has a girlfriend who actually plays a part in the show and its not pointed out like it's a big deal. The most "look she's gay!" moment is a joke about her "playing for the other team" in the first episode, but that's only after the main character tries to hit on her.

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>>8038500
I like Wiccan and Hulkling. They're treated like a normal couple and not everything was centered around them. They're also not op. Wiccan's spells doesn't work if he doesn't focus, and hulkling is pretty much just a copy of Beastboy in terms of superpowers.

Satan in South park is also cool. That episode, where he chooses between Chris and Saddam, must be an eye-opener to most people in a relationship.

It seems like DC is also making Harley Quinn bisexual with Poison Ivy, but it's also not out of their character. Mad Love showed how abused Harley Quinn was. It does irk me seeing those two together, but it's understandable.

San Junipero was a surprisingly excellent example of lgbt representation, decent characters with flaws instead of being handled with sjw kid gloves

>>8038908
jesus christ that must have been traumatising

>>8038855
Pretty much this. It is so rare to see it in fiction. It's usually either a gay story about the gayness of gay people with gay problems in gaytown, or the guy who once said he was gay in episode 2 and has never flirted with anyone, dated anyone or even mentioned it ever since.

I guess the most annoying is when they comine the two so we get the gay character who is every gay stereotype combined, constantly talks about being gay but never, ever actually displays any romantic or sexual behaviour.

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>>8038906
Not him, but I really liked Jim Miller in the new Deus Ex game.
He is a complex character and being gay is a part of it but it would have worked just as well with a straight character.

Lahey and Randy

Ray from Archer is actually pretty good. He's competent and also flamboyant, and yet still comes off as a realistic character whose entire identity is not consumed by being gay.

>>8038549

My thoughts exactly.

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>>8038500
Most LGBT characters are very lame characters, generally speaking.

I considered Zevran Arainai from Dragon Age: Origins as an example of a character tastefully representing bisexual men in a fantasy setting, even though including gay romance in an RPG in the first place was almost definitely an opportunistic decision on the part of the game developers. His story and personality were well done, his bisexuality was believable in the context of his life.

>>8038855
this this this.

I absolutely detest the "Im just a character but I also happen to be gay" and its just tacked on to a clearly pre-built archetype for example tracer from overwatch

Obviously a trait cant apply to everyone and Im sure there are people out there who just "happen" to be gay but for the sake of entertainment and purpose within media I'd like to see more quirks around gay guys. Maybe they have more female friends because they are insecure about males because they were bullied.

Maybe they're hyper masculine in an effort to compensate as what they perceive to be feminine idk

>>8039881
>I absolutely detest the "Im just a character but I also happen to be gay" and its just tacked on to a clearly pre-built archetype
I hate this too but sometimes I find it hard to judge what's tokenism and what's relevant to the character. How do you draw that line?

This is especially true of trans characters where their transition has to be more than "I happen to be gay" but I still get a sense of tokenism and that the transition is only included the bare minimum amount it needs to be in order to be reasonable. That's still tokenism to me but drawing the line is tricky.

Also what do you say to the argument that characters should "happen to be LGBT" because all the characters are just created regardless of sexuality and sexuality is added/implied later, and therefore whether cishet or LGBT is just arbitrary and statistically should be LGBT some of the time?

>>8038855
It's not a middle ground like there's a spectrum. It's more like a horseshoe of good characterization. If that makes sense?

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Can I get an example of ingenuine opportunistic virtue-signaling gays? It seems like we all agree that there are good gays in the media.

>>8039948
Every gay sitcom character ever

I think it would be cool to see a show where a character transitioned in secret and you just saw gradual changes in each episode they were in.

>>8038500
Tasteful:
>Arcade Gannon from Fallout New Vegas
>Any of the LGBT people on Black Sails
>Gay characters on The Walking Dead
>Ian on Shameless
>Trevor on Shameless (didn't expect it but wow, surprisingly well handled even with all of the buzzwords)
>Most fighting games where it's basically a factoid in the character info
>Metal Gear Solid franchise where LGBT people exist, have history, and their sexuality has little to no bearing on their badassery
>Skyrim because you can marry whoever and no one gives a shit.
>Dragon Age: Inquisition, I actually liked Krem, and I liked how it even gave assholes the option to be assholes to him so they didn't whine as much about inclusion


Not Tasteful:
>Dragon Age 2, pretty much the entire romance system and the random campy drag queen
>Every reality show centered around trans people currently running (I Am Cait, Drag Race, Transparent, etc.)
>The DCU shows (just stop, Mr. Fantastic has a husband, Sara Lance is bi and sexually active, we get it)

Basically, when it's a thing, it's there, it's not just mentioned and forgotten for social justice points, it's not played as a cheap punchline, and it's not cast as the person's entire identity and character motivation. Basically, when the LGBT people portrayed are people, and not one-dimensional nobodies who could just as easily be replaced with a cardboard cutout of a person that says "GAY" on it.

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Anyone play Transistor? Most characters other than Red are only seen in written profiles but two major antagonists are gay and it's never outright said but their relationship is just visibly there.

There's also a possibly trans woman whose only noticeable trait of being trans is an ambiguous gender marker on their profile. All of their other character traits are more important to who they are and the being (maybe) trans thing is just a side note.

>>8040030
What is transistor? I've seen a lot of ads for it but I have no idea what it is. Isn't it made by the same people who made Bastion?

>>8040045
yes it is made by the same people

>>8039909
Well its sexuality so its always relevant to the character. This of course is hard to represent through a camera where most things are focused on a plot and any focus on LGBT is seen as pandering.

An alright example is Alec from Shadowhunters. When it is focusing on his gay part it isn't entirely "I suck dicks" and it actually weaves in other plot parts related to his homosexuality (He belongs to an organisation that discriminates against gays, so he denies being gay etc)

I also distinctly remember a brief 2 seconds when he is talking to his sister on a completely unrelated topic and a background guy walks past but Alec actually checks out his ass and thats it. His sister doesn't give him a look, he doesn't do anything to emphasize the fact he was checking out a guy, just a brief turn of his head and tilting downwards and the camera changes angle. When I saw it I remember thinking it was the first time I'd seen a piece of media actually acknowledge something I do in day to day life thats completely inconsequential and I thought "Wow thats actually kinda spot on"

>Also what do you say to the argument that characters should "happen to be LGBT" because all the characters are just created regardless of sexuality and sexuality is added/implied later

Like I said, most things in characterization are not just there because they "happen to be" , they are intended to serve purpose.

Katniss Everdeen doesn't just "happen to be picked" she volunteers in place of her sister, showing us that she's a selfless character who values family and when she speaks up shows us her rebellious side as she wont take shit lying down, thus foreshadowing the plot point that she becomes the poster child for the nationwide rebellion

>>8038500
>'tasteful' portrayal of LGBT people
Some examples off the top of my head:
The lesbian doctor in Jane The Virgin
The lesbian friend in New Girl
Max in Happy Endings (even though his character is boring)
Gays get made fun of in Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt but they're likeable and the jokes are good and self-deprecating

>ingenuine opportunistic virtue-signaling
Every British soap
Every comic/superhero-based movie
The girl in Overwatch
Video games in general
LeFou in the new Beauty and the Beast

>>8040026
>Mr. Terrific not Mr. Fantastic
Sorry, too much nerd media for today.

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>>8039996
Modern Family and Vicious were good.

I only watched 2 episodes of Will and Grace, but it's still a funny show. I just think it's for women.

Maybe the other cable tv shows are bad because it's from a cheap cable tv channel. I mean, most of their shows are already bad.

>>8040135
Thanks for that explanation. What you say feels spot on to me. I'm straight leaning bi, so observations like checking out an ass haven't occurred to me on my own and I'd just appreciate straight equivalents to that without noticing the absence of the gay version.

C A R O L
is god tier

>>8040045
Yup, same people who made Bastion and it's a pretty good game overall. Short but really well made in pretty much all respects. Good gameplay, art, and soundtrack. The story is good but maybe hit or miss since it doesn't really handhold the player.

>>8038534
god he's hot

>>8038500
>what do you consider ingenuine opportunistic virtue-signaling?
lgbt people in media

>>8038534
Why does the guy have, what I assume to be, his pokemon team framing him in his profile picture

>>8040683
Friendships last a lifetime

>>8038908

Same, oh my god.

>>8039011

It was.

>>8038534
>>8040683
>weavile
>honchkrow
>luxray
>dusknoir
>pangoro

I can't quite make out the last one. Any ideas?

REAL SEX

I'm not sure if others will agree, but I thought Krem from Dragon Age: Inquisition was pretty good.

>>8040026

>Any of the LGBT people on Black Sails

amen, they were great

>>8038500
>bad tier
Character outright mentions their LGBT status within 5 seconds of meeting you and it never comes up again. Pretty much only exists to virtue signal the writer's ideas rather than actually using LGBT concepts as an interesting basis for a character.
Example: Mizhena, Baldur's Gate.
>ok tier
Random minor character implies their LGBT status 5 seconds of meeting you. Interesting tidbit that would only be noticed by someone who has significant familiarity with LGBT culture and/or the setting. Serves as an interesting nod or piece of humour for those in the know rather than an outright attempt at virtue signaling.
Example: Beauty Nova, Pokemon X and Y.
>good tier
Character's LGBT status is a central part of their storyline. The character was written not because the writer wanted to virtue signal or throw in a subtle joke or nod, but because the writer thought they could make an interesting character based around the struggles unique to LGBT people.
Example: ???
>god tier
The character is multidimensional and the LGBT part of their storyline is just one of many other motivations, struggles, defining traits, etc that make up the character. The writer wanted to make a character based around the issues unique to LGBT people, but also incorporates other relevant characterization points to avoid a flat, one dimensional character, all while adding even more interesting character traits.
Example: ???

>>8043500
Zebstrika maybe? It's a white thing on 4 legs so Absol as well

>>8043677
Neither Absol nor Zebstrika are posed like that in their Sugi art, though. And he used official Sugi art for all the other Pokemon, so I doubt he'd just swap suddenly for the last.

>>8043677
>>8043500
>>8043697
It is actually Zebstrika.

>>8038890
Better than there being NO good movies for MTF people.

>>8043736
Priscilla Queen of the Desert

I love me some bad ass queer action heros

/L/ Root from Person of Interest
/G/ Omar from The Wire
/B/ Shaw from Person of Interest
/T/ Nomi from Sens8

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>>8043806
>queer
>this series

Fuck off, back to tumblr normie.

Some of you have mentioned my favourites already but:
Walking Dead, San Junipero & Boys Don't Cry.

I also liked You Me Her & the sixth episode of Easy because I am polyamorous.

>>8043830
Disgusting

>>8039011
I had to close Netflix and still haven't finished it.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/03/us/marvel-america-chavez-superhero-trnd/
I feel like this is bad.

Mac from IASIP

>>8038500
Milo.

>>8045095
Ew.

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Not exactly tasteful but still the best couple

>>8043830

>poly

Cuck.

Great posts everyone: keep it up.

>>8043766
>Priscilla Queen of the Desert
Haven't seen this but it is about drag queens... Talk about horrible portrayal of transpeople and a general mixup.

>>8045862
new episode means Randy is potentially Ricky's new mom

>>8043641
Bobby Hill from King of the Hill

>>8049426
One of the main characters is explicitly trans, not a drag queen. It's actually a very good movie.

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>>8038500
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372122/

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>>8038500
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0835034/

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>>8038500
>tasteful
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093512/

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>>8038500
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091578

>>8040026
dorian was a great gay character, and yes, i hate sera but sera was not just a token lesbian like suvi from andromeda for example, iron bull and josephine where pretty neat too.

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>>8038500
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0166287

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>>8038500
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3576842

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>>8038500
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0995829

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4901306

>>8051163
Why does the Y resemble a broken X?

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>>8043730
It's actually this Sugi-styled fanart of Mega Houndoom

>>8040026
what's your opinion on how gearbox is gayin up their games and stuff

>>8051205
Because she's mtf?

Not even seen the movie, but
>The story of an intersexual fifteen-year-old. She lives with her parents, who have to cope with the challenges of her medical condition.

Though, calling it "intersexual", instead of "intersex", might just mean the writer has no idea that all XXY are male.