Transgenders are just confusing people because they are monopolizing

>>8026285
You know I wish I had a parent like that it would be sooooooooooo much easier to come out

>>8026285
This is hilarious because it's the first time I've seen a passing trans woman next to an FtM hon.

>>8026373
But imagine how awkward it would be...

>>8026285
Are we sure the mom didnt just realise she's a dyke?

>>8026391
Oh it would be awkward as hell but you know you could definitely come out to a trans parent.

>>8026416
Not if dad is a turbodyke TERF who decides daughter is a fetishistic misogynist.

>>8026285
Wow like 0.7% of the population and just a coincidence that there are two trannies in one family?
If this isn't proof it's environmental I don't know what is, poor kid

>>8026391
My younger brother is trans (FtM), and yeah it's pretty awkward. Thankfully he moved away.

>>8026434
FYI the daughter transitioned before the mom, who is probably just AAP

>>8026434
>two people of blood relation have the same disorder
>"proof it's environmental"
wat

>>8026456
But HSTS and A*P don't appear in the same families.

>>8026473
The gender identity claim is that it's caused by hormones, not that it's genetic. That's why more older brothers make it more likely a younger sibling is trans, because their mother's body functions differently after already being pregnant with a boy.

>>8026373
>>8026416
>>8026421

In some cases it might be easier to come out to a trans parent, but not if you're both MtF and your father has decided to keep you in the closet so that he can avoid breaking down and keep himself in the closet.

>>8026445
he's ftm and you're mtf? wew!

>>8026434
Well I'm trans, my parent has a cousin who is trans and my grandfather has a cousin who is trans. All came out rather young so like idk maybe epigenetics and genetics has something to do with it.

>>8026521
the medical literature shows that, while they run in different families, it is possible albeit rare for *different variants* to run in the same family -- in this case, mtf hsts and ftm aap
there is a case report of a crossdressing man with an ftm son
this is possible because natal male and natal female homosexuality do not run in the same families
t. blanchardian anon

>>8026615
to make my point a little clearer (because i am really bad at being either clear or concise), you can't assume that if you know there are two trans siblings *of opposite genders* and one is hsts then the other will be too, although it is more likely than the general population, because those don't appear to be directly comparable genetically

>>8026615
>>8026619
also, because i am *definitely* not going to pull off concise here:
the one (1) case report of a mixed hsts/a*p family is from a high double or low triple digit numer of total case reports of transsexualism in families catalogued in the medical literature
so this kind of mix is rare
i am also not certain how much i can endorse the difference between siblings even though i just went and said it
whoops

>>8026411
Mom identifies as a 2000s teen heart throb, k?

File: cambyyeahnah.gif (981KB, 410x300px) Image search: [Google]

981KB, 410x300px

>>8026285
shit is fucked

>>8026615
>>8026619
>>8026625
I think I understand.

Does this prove that both HSTS and A*P are genetic, since they are heritable and can be passed down over multiple generations?

But shouldn't it be possible for opposite variants to be in the same gender in the same family? For example if two natal female trans brothers have FtM HSTS and AAP in their family history, one from their mother and one from their paternal grandmother, wouldn't it be possible that they each inherit a different variant?

>you can't assume that if you know there are two trans siblings *of opposite genders* and one is hsts then the other will be too, although it is more likely than the general population,
Why would it be more likely?

What's the explanation for the one mixed HSTS/A*P family?

>>8026668
>Does this prove that both HSTS and A*P are genetic, since they are heritable and can be passed down over multiple generations?
they have a strong genetic component, yes
interestingly, there's evidence to suggest both transsexualism types are more heritable than cissexual homosexuality, at least in individualist countries (collectivist countries rarely have enough cisgays)
the concordance rate of transsexualism in identical twins is consistently about 1 in 3 and does not appear type-dependent, while with the exception of one of bailey's studies that found 50%, the concordance of homosexuality is within a few points of 10%
>But shouldn't it be possible for opposite variants to be in the same gender in the same family? For example if two natal female trans brothers have FtM HSTS and AAP in their family history, one from their mother and one from their paternal grandmother, wouldn't it be possible that they each inherit a different variant?
it's at least theoretically possible, but it's never been observed
>Why would it be more likely?
because the presence of one hsts sibling implies strong genetic loading in that family for homosexual transsexualism, putting the odds higher than the 20/80 seen in the unselected trans population
>What's the explanation for the one mixed HSTS/A*P family?
that's where the 'different lines of the family' thing come in. technically i guess it's two now, given the family discussed here appears to be a split aap/hsts one. both reported cases are parent/child rather than siblings, which raises some interesting questions as to why this would not occur in siblings. possibly they have something to do with environmental factors, though i've become a genetic determinist lately so epigenetics or random drift might provide a better explanation.

>>8026703
>they have a strong genetic component, yes
What are the likely non-genetic factors that are involved?

>interestingly, there's evidence to suggest both transsexualism types are more heritable than cissexual homosexuality,
But shouldn't HSTS and cissexual homosexuality have the same heritability because of their connection?

Does this mean the spectrum between those two is also genetic and not totally due to environmental factors like society and social class? Is the same true for the spectrum of A*P from less to more severe and dysphoric?

>and does not appear type-dependent,
How can that be?

>it's at least theoretically possible, but it's never been observed
Statistically shouldn't it have been, given the quantity of both types?

>because the presence of one hsts sibling implies strong genetic loading in that family for homosexual transsexualism,
But aren't FtM and MtF HSTS separate? Is there a similar connection between AAP and AGP?

>technically i guess it's two now, given the family discussed here appears to be a split aap/hsts one.
Couldn't the daughter be AGP too now that early transition for AGPs happens?

Both being parent/child is odd but two families is a very small sample size. Link to the other case?

Do you have any guesses about what environmental factors might stop it occurring in siblings, if it does turn out to be environmental?

>though i've become a genetic determinist lately
Why?

>>8026757
>What are the likely non-genetic factors that are involved?
[shrug emoji]
>Does this mean the spectrum between those two is also genetic and not totally due to environmental factors like society and social class?
note my reference to newfound genetic determinism -- noting the racial gaps in hsts transition (which ultimately boil down to 'everyone but white westerners'), i'm starting to wonder if the individualism/collectivism difference is that some ethnic groups have higher hsts genetic loading than others, and for whatever other reason are also more collectivist than others (culture, like everything else in the world, ultimately boils down to genetics). this could in part explain the higher rates of hsts transition in developed countries as being because developed countries are less white than they used to be -- i wonder if there's any data on how much of the increase is proportionate to each racial group? (all the high-profile early transitioners i can think of off the top of my head are white, including ashkenazi jews (e.g. jazz jennings) as white, but they also skew pretty wealthy)
>How can that be?
[shrug emoji]
>Statistically shouldn't it have been, given the quantity of both types?
consider that transsexualism is not a common disorder
>But aren't FtM and MtF HSTS separate? Is there a similar connection between AAP and AGP?
they're separate, but it's (maybe?) dimensional rather than taxonomic
this is getting way, way out of anything that anyone's bothered to study -- we're still in the 'case studies' stage for non-twin siblings, and the 'figure out basic concordance' stage for twins
(if you think *you* want to fix that, imagine how *i* feel...)
>Couldn't the daughter be AGP too now that early transition for AGPs happens?
that kid looks prepubescent to me. even eli erlick was, going by the ages given and the lack of mention of her ever taking puberty blockers, a pubertal transitioner.
[continued]

>>8026757
>>8026767
>Link to the other case?
case 5 in Family Cooccurrence of “Gender Dysphoria”: Ten Sibling or Parent–Child Pairs, Green, R. Arch Sex Behav (2000)
http://booksc.org/book/10887534
note 1: all the language and pronouns used there are based around natal sex, not transitioned, even for post-transition people
note 2: there is a cross-gender hsts sibling pair in there
note 3: the ftm half of the cross-gender hsts sibling pair chose not to transition, and i've felt for a while that this is a major complicating factor in ftm transsexualism research -- the other cross-gender hsts sibling pair i can think of off the top of my head from a separate study had a similar situation, and it also pops up in ftm twin studies, to the point i can think of one case where a twin pair was labelled discordant for transsexualism because while both experienced dysphoria and were on t one identified as male and the other as lesbian
also, i think i recall reading about a third case at some point (a blog from a cis woman whose spouse came out as mtf shortly after their child did)
>Do you have any guesses about what environmental factors might stop it occurring in siblings, if it does turn out to be environmental?
[shrug emoji]
>Why?
i looked more into the topic of behavioural genetics and concluded that genetic explanations were consistently better than environmental ones for almost all aspects of the human psyche

>>8026769
>i looked more into the topic of behavioural genetics and concluded that genetic explanations were consistently better than environmental ones for almost all aspects of the human psyche

Stop, just stop, this is embarrassing.

>>8026767
>>8026769
update on 'maye the kid is agp' -- i looked up the name because it seemed familiar. yep, corey maison is definitely hsts.

>>8026767
>i wonder if there's any data on how much of the increase is proportionate to each racial group? (
You don't need that data. You can just compare the rate of change in HSTS transition to the rate of racial change in the same country.

>all the high-profile early transitioners i can think of off the top of my head are white, including ashkenazi jews (e.g. jazz jennings) as white, but they also skew pretty wealthy
Being high-profile will skew that massively. For data like that high-profile cases will never be representative.

>consider that transsexualism is not a common disorder
My hunch is there are enough people and enough reported trans cases that we could expect to have heard of it. But that's without running the numbers.

>they're separate, but it's (maybe?) dimensional rather than taxonomic
I don't understand?

>if you think *you* want to fix that, imagine how *i* feel...
Why you more than I?

>going by the ages given and the lack of mention of her ever taking puberty blockers, a pubertal transitioner.
One case is anecdotal. Is there a reason AGPs (and AAPs?) aren't and won't start transitioning prepuberty?

>to the point i can think of one case where a twin pair was labelled discordant for transsexualism because while both experienced dysphoria and were on t one identified as male and the other as lesbian
Wow. In trans studies, FtM and MtF, not just family ones, are there lots of cases of non-transitioning trans people?

>i looked more into the topic of behavioural genetics
What did you read specifically?

>>8026285
It's only gonna be bad for T, no one can blame LGB for that. Our whole thing is that "we're the same as you, but we like the same/both sexes." Trans people can't pull that and only look crazy when they do.

>>8026285
and to think you guys wonder why people think your crazy....

>>8026873
???

>>8026831
Yes we can, thanks to perfectly normal early transitioners like Jazz Jennings and Nicole Mai

https://my.mixtape.moe/torkvn.webm

Uh, scratch that last one

>>8026984
Besides the hair how is she not normal in that clip?