Is it impossible for androgynous people to ever have a dominant

Date a girl if it's such a big deal.

>>8024008
I'm not attracted to girls very much. Usually lean muscular guys.

>>8023966
in a male/male relationship? No. Never.
in a female/female relationship? Yes, dominance is established differently.

>>8023966
Date a fellow androgynous person or sub boy or repressed mtf.

>>8024070
You always hear these stories about these bossy women who have their men whipped though. I just don't get it. I can't get that level of influence over any man that I find attractive.

>>8024103
The bossy women are closeted FtMs. You're a closeted MtF. This is why you can't do it.

>>8024156
How will putting myself in a female body fix my dislike of my small feminine male body?

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oh you sweet cinnamon bun

I'm so 'submissive' I end up being dominant because I instinctively fill whatever role I need to be to be in control. There's power in dominance, and complementary power in submission. Masc/fem dom/sub top/bot are irrelevant to control and NET power in a relationship.

You can be a sub fem bot and have all the control in a relationship.

You can be a dom masc top and have no control.

Issue here isn't that you aren't being dominant/submissive masculine/feminine enough, it's that you either A) Have not been experiencing enough control within a relationship to feel satisfied or B) You're experiencing optimal level of control in your relationship but you're uncomfortable WITH your level is and how it affects how you view yourself. Maybe both. A partner will read EITHER as a call for them to meet you wherever you're at and maybe take on more control than is there optimal level, or more likely they'd be willing the reigns if you wanted it.

So do you REALLY want the reigns? Or do you just want to know you could take the reigns if you DID want? Or do you just not want to feel shame for NOT wanting the reigns in the first place?

I mean just to level with you I'm 95% dom bottom, but I instinctively act more controlling because I struggle with being TRULY vulnerable. Like I can pretend to be your sissy bitch but only when I know at any point control is still within my reach or I can walk away without really needing you. I'm not even all that masculine or aggressive in personality. But I don't feel the need to be, and maybe that's the difference. I attract LODES of sub/fem/bot types. We're opposites, in a way, but the same. You view yourself as flawed because of the control you always give others over you. I'm always in control, but view myself as flawed because I could never risk the vulnerability of letting others have control over me.

You give, but I take. I take from the willing, only what they're willing to give, but I take all the same.

>>8024410
When I started reading your reply I felt like you were being condescending and saying I want to be the bitch, but then I finished reading it and I realize it stings because maybe it's not the craziest analysis.

I can't talk about this stuff in real life. Like I'm embarrassed to take any guy around my mother because I know that she knows what I let them do to her son. I lived with her initially when I went to college and sometimes a boyfriend would come over unannounced or early. She would be a polite host and try to get to know them, sometimes without me even knowing they were there yet. Whenever she would say "He seems like a nice boy" I would just die inside. I moved to a dorm just to separate my social life from my family life.

The dorm didn't solve it. My closest friends, or my colleagues, eventually they would see me with a boyfriend, a person obviously larger and more masculine than me, and I could always tell what they thought. Why wouldn't they think it? They even thought it about the jock I mentioned who bottomed. And the honest truth is that I was never truly satisfied in that relationship either, particularly because it didn't change the outward perception at all regardless of what happened in the bedroom.

I'm able to post this because instead of spending the night with me he only came over for a quickie then said he had to drive home for the weekend. I didn't even cum it was over so quick. How's that for reinforcing stereotypes.

In the moment it's always fine but when I have time to think about it is when I have discontent. I don't know how to feel what I need to feel.

>>8024410
>There's power in dominance, and complementary power in submission. Masc/fem dom/sub top/bot are irrelevant to control and NET power in a relationship.
>You can be a sub fem bot and have all the control in a relationship.
What is the power/control then, separate from those three things? What does it actually mean?

>You view yourself as flawed because of the control you always give others over you. I'm always in control, but view myself as flawed because I could never risk the vulnerability of letting others have control over me.
Does everyone see themselves as flawed in some way like this?

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>>8023966
DYEL?

>>8024713
Any tone is probably projection at the shit I give myself, I try to have a sense of humor about it.

Good news is you're struggling with you and your perceptions of how others see you. You can't fix a world where we're doomed to labels no one ever really fills, but you can fix you. Start small, I'd start with your feelings about submission and femininity. In reality we're all a little sub, a little fem, we just express it differently. I'm sure boy you fucked was self-conscious about how much he loved your dick. Maybe all the ways you let him be masc let him feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable that way.

Totally get you with mum, that'd be my dad for me. Whew lad only advice I can give you is chances are things'd be awkward even if you brought over a springy twink. Her reaction isn't to knowing you're getting fucked, its to you being gay. Not in a bad way. Just 'how do i refer to this lad my boys brought home... same way i would talk about a daughters bf i guess?'

I think where we differ is I tend to associate femininity with dominance, not masculinity. Masculinity to me is something to be tamed, thankfully. I'm short as hell, love doting on a guy several heads higher than me knowing I can do things to him no one else can. That he's made sounds for me no one else will ever get to hear. I don't care if no one else knows. He knows. I know. He knows I know. To me it's better it's our secret. If we break up doesn't matter who he dates. Because they won't be like me and no matter what they do for him, they won't do what I did.

This is the control I need, my weakness. Because the second I feel like I might need him more than he needs me, I feel vulnerable. I push people away because when people DO need me more, I know it's just a matter of time before I hurt them. And instead of letting them have the control of saying "you are worth that risk" /I/ decide for them. Just emphasizing I'm not perfect. -c-

>>8024713
usually not masc/fem in people, it's strength and mutability. I'm not dom or masc in the stereotypical way. I'm warm and humble, generally a pretty soft-hearted person. The antithesis of aggressive. Hard to describe but I'm all honey no vinegar. But I still get what I want. My 'strength' is that I don't need to be strong. When it comes to subs they usually respect me not for whatever kinky shit I do, but how doting I am and how much I respect the gravity of the power they give me. There are different kinds of strength and power. Own yours.

Secondly realize that most of the time, especially with gay relationships, its not 1 masc dude 1 super fem dude as much as it is 'dude masc in some ways femme in other ways' and 'other dude masc and femme in complementary ways'. Straight dudes have their soft points only their gfs see- they cry during sad movies or like it when a girl gets possessive with them. Some of the most 'masc' 'dominant seeming' dudes in the world pay thousands for professional dominant women.

like to me the hottest thing in the fuckin world is when I get the rare dude that doesn't back down when I challenge him and gets off on a power struggle as much as I do. You can BOTH be the man in the relationship. I would recommend doing some CBT with yourself on some of these automatic thoughts EG "I feel insecure because he's spooning with me, intensity of about 70/100." reason yourself down, that you just fucked him, that he's snuggling up on you or holding your hand, that you rolled over this way first and he just HAD to cuddle with you and thats the only reason you ended up that way. You'll still feel insecure but if you can say intensity went down to like 60/100, its progress. Over time that'll go even farther down.

You'll take more risks as you get more confident to affirm yourself, you'll find your partners are receptive and you were the one with the holdups. Make it your goal to be comfortable wanting to be a bitch, and make him your bitch.

>>8024837
passing out soon but in short think of it like poker: you can behave masc/fem dom/sub all you want but at the end of the day your cards are your cards. What is your value as a partner, emotionally, financially, sexually. How bad do you need the other person? How badly do they need you?

If I'm a fem bot sub but I'm the most attractive sub a dom has ever had, I have more control.

I'm an ugly fem dom but my masc sub never meets any other doms, I have more control

I'm a fem top sub but my dom is emotionally and financially dependent on me, i have more control


obviously 'manipulating' this possible and its where I tend to run into most of my trouble and what I focus on most as far as personal growth goes. My issue is that I 'manipulate' for what are in my mind reasons 'for' my partner, but they themselves should have control over something. Or that I withhold myself to both make myself less an emotional burden, but also reduce my vulnerability to them. But it ends I start pushing away when I reach the point I'm no longer comfortable exposing myself.

tired af but hope it works out for you op. There's nothing wrong with you man. You're in a shitty catch 22 where the thing you're insecurity about the thing you're insecure about, makes it MORE likely you'll end up acting or perceiving shit in a ways that makes things worse. Just remember that what you feel about /yyourself/ ISNT what your partner feels about YOU

>>8023966
>All of the guys I'm attracted to see me as a girl.
No offense, man, but if this is what's actually happening and not just insecurity regarding how others see your relationships skewing your perception, something is very wrong with your judgement. The world may be filled with wannabe heterosexuals, but they're far from all there is. Be more discerning and stop settling for men with such a dumbass way of seeing things.

>>8028025
I don't think it's that simple. My favorite body type in a man is lean and muscular, because I expect him to be able to particulate in sports with me or go running a few miles or whatever I do, and usually guys with this appearance are no less than a foot taller than me.

I can't develop large muscles. I can't make myself taller. I have feminine hips. My chest isn't hairy and the hair on my limbs is very fine. I'm not really sure if you can have the kind of man that I'm attracted to who wouldn't look at me in a feminine way. Or if you can then it's the odd one out and I have yet to find them, but usually guys with that mentality are off looking for big jocks to fuck them.

>>8028627
You're focusing on yourself too much here. Or rather, the wrong aspects of yourself. Your standards are what needs to be changed, and they can be. Yes you can't change your build, but that doesn't mean shit. You CAN find a tall lean muscular sporty guy who isn't a dumb wannabe-hetero animal. Stop thinking purely in terms of physical appearance when selecting a man and you'll be able to find one that does the same.

>>8023966
So you're trans or you should be more masculine bodied? I hate you by the way, you have it so nice