/pol/ here. So why are liberals so keen to sweep the idea of

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>>7987364
Hi, faggot. I do not even know what it is HSTS/AGP.

Really /pol/ is extremely gay nowadays...

holy shit stop spamming this you fucking autist

>>7987364
...Cara?

>>7987401
no.....?

>>7987370
Finally, a /polgbt/ drawing I like.

>>7987416
WHY?

>>7987364
>so why are you so hostile to the right wing's approach when it's closer to your truth?
Because they are cowards and would rather beat you with a lie than defend an uncomfortable truth.

Telling them being trans is a problem hurts, so instead of coming to terms with it, they deny it and claim it's 'natural' so that any argument that they shouldn't transition is null.

>>7987364
If i was rich I'd legit fund Blanchman

>>7987364
The queen is back holy shit.

>>7987677
>The queen
???

>>7987466
/lgbt/ isn't a stupid bottom femboy faggot with shitty ass clothes on his knees begging /pol/ to rape him.

>>7987686
>/lgbt/ isn't a stupid bottom femboy faggot
making him an almost tranny is the best compromise for lgbt's demographics

>>7987364
In my opinion the problem is that the HSTS/AGP theory focuses too much on sexual orientation.
Regardless of who a trans person wants to have sex with, being in a body that one is comfortable with can be very enabling when it comes to sexual satisfaction, so it's only natural to have so-called "AGP" fantasies even if you wouldn't want to have sex with women, simply because it matches your biological urge of wanting to get fucked better even as a HSTS.
Honestly the so-called "AGP" just has nothing to do with sexual orientation (rather, it is a fetish that some people have to liberate a repressed gender identity) yet Blanchard pretends it does have to do with orientation because he's obsessed with categorizing gay and straight men.
Another problem is that the term "homosexual transsexual" is ambiguous; homosexual with regard to their birth sex or their gender identity?
It also nags me since I'm bisexual so I feel left out since I don't fit in either category even though he presented it like a dichitomy.

>>7987364
Because it literally does not matter. At all.

>>7987748
If that were true, why are trans women who have AGP more likely not less to be comfortable having sex as men?

Fuck off. HSTS/AGP are not a thing. Peddle your psuedo science else where. Sage.

>>7987764
I don't consider anyone who wants to have sex as a man to be a trans woman. I think only people with gender dysphoria are real trans women.
Also, what AGPs that want to have sex as men are you talking about? Isn't the whole point of being AGP that they want to have sex as women so that they can drool over their own femininity?
That's why I think Blanchard's theory is so destructive... Aren't you just mixing up AGPs and dominant transbians?

>>7987781
>I don't consider anyone who wants to have sex as a man to be a trans woman. I think only people with gender dysphoria are real trans women.
I think you're very closed-minded in your definition of dysphoria.

>>7987763
Isn't it extremely important to understand why you want to be a girl?

>>7987364
HSTS/AGP model is entirely incompatible with newer waves of research on trans identification being related to key differences in neurology that relate to corporeality. It also doesn't seem to have a way to reconcile newer developments in culture such as non-binary people and others who can not easily be mapped onto a dichotomy such as for example the bisexual femboys that use hormones

>>7988006
According to Blanchardian anon, all that research is bullshit and AGPs actually have male brains, more masculine brains than faggots even.

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>>7988006
>HSTS/AGP model is entirely incompatible with newer waves of research on trans identifications.

Can you link some studies / articles please.

>t. mtf that feels great internalized shame /disgust for fitting the agp category.

I don't necessarily believe in Blanchard's typology the way he describes it, but I can't imagine anyone who's been around a lot of young and old trans people can disagree that there is a huuuuge difference between the two groups.

>>7988023
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being agp
Stop being so spooked

>>7988074
There are a lot of young AGPs tho. I would say that I fit the AGP typology in the sense that I'm gynephilic and do think there are some sexually gratifying aspects of being attractive "as a woman", whatever that means. And I'm actually more attractive than my young HSTS friend, since I was more obsessed with passing due to my more intense body dysphoria, although she's obviously way more lucky with the guys than I am with the girls.

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>>7988082
You wouldn't understand.

>>7988074
>but I can't imagine anyone who's been around a lot of young and old trans people can disagree that there is a huuuuge difference between the two groups.
I could be wrong here, but I think its largely a result of the situation those people were in. There was very little awareness of transgender people outside of the LGBT community until recently, and the ones who are attracted to guys were more likely to be involved with that sort of thing and thus found out about it sooner, as well as the fact that going from gay male->straight woman is a much easier decision than straight male->lesbian woman in terms of social acceptance. The average age of transition for gay and straight trannies is quickly evening out as more people realize that transitioning is even an option.

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>>7988023
Here is some:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21467211
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/?tool=pmcentrez
https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/25/10/3527/387406/Structural-Connectivity-Networks-of-Transgender
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0083947
http://espe2014abstracts.eurospe.org/hrp/0082/hrp0082FC14.1.htm

Basically, there is something specific in trans brains that isn't directly mediated by male/female differentiation that causes the dysphoria for people that transition. Trans women before they go on HRT have a fairly wide distribution in masc/fem brains that isn't directly correlated with orientation, according to surveys some 1/3 are bisexual. There are also some non-binary people that still want to change their body with hormones that don't really fit across a straight masc/fem division as well. There is also a fair amount of literature that explores trans narratives as being about embodiment and perception such as https://www.amazon.ca/Second-Skins-Body-Narratives-Transsexuality/dp/0231109350. I reckon that something like a dichotomous model of sexual orientation OR gender is not enough to explain trans/dysphoria.

>>7988022
Blanchard is wrong and past his time, trans is gonna get changed again in the next DSM revision, and it'll continue getting revised in whatever other institutions tries to standardize it

>>7988308
HSTS is a mental disorder so of course it shows up in the brain.

AGP is a sexual orientation that means you are trans.

>>7988147
I'm agp myself

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>>7988382
Okay sorry, you understand.

How do you reconcile romantic attraction / relationships with being AGP?

>>7988308
Also thank you for the links.

>>7988426
I'm not really sure what you mean

>>7988082
I'd rather cut my neck if I turned out to be AGP. Decent people would.

>>7988382
You make me self hate a little more

>>7988675
AGP just means you're attracted to girls as a trans woman, are you attracted to girls?

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>>7988606
.....
>>7988675
Welcome to my world rvchan.

>>7988686
No but I can't feel any attraction with a cypro only regimen and was underweight and sick before so it never really worked normal. I don't know.

>>7988686
That's pretty horrible, anyone like that is instantly damned.

>>7988691
It's ok to want someone to just make you feel like a girl and to like them and want to be in a relationship with them for it

>>7988712
can't tell if this is sarcasm or just ignorance

>>7988743
Lament

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>>7988606
>>7988740

What I'm trying to say is how do you reconcile the fact that being agp= your sexuality essentially revolves around yourself being a woman / man in a sexual context, how do you rationalize being in LTRs if ultimately your partner is just a conduit to your own sexual fantasy of being a woman / man?

It's disgusting and narcissistic.

>>7988746
why would you feel that way? elaborate?

>>7988753
By accepting that all relationships are about taking and giving things and you just like being given something different than most people
And it doesn't mean you can't have an emotional connection with your partner
in essence just be yourself

>>7987748
blanchard put all bisexuals in the AGP category. HSTS was defined as EXCLUSIVELY attracted to the same sex/opposite gender.

>>7988759
If the theory is right, there's all sorts of seemingly little things like that that can condemn someone who otherwise was ok to worthlessness

>>7988768
That's what worries me
>>7988765
And that's disgusting, please don't start to defend such abusive things

>>7988769
>If the theory is right, there's all sorts of seemingly little things like that that can condemn someone

what

>who otherwise was ok to worthlessness

what


i've only skimmed through the thread so far, so i'm not following any certain post chains here. i do however, identify as mtf and my dating pool is towards cisgender females. i don't understand how or why you would feel that this situation is "instantly damned" [damning]

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You idiots stop arguing with rvchan it's literally as productive as arguing with cara about why people should be allowed to transition past x age.

>>7988784
>>7988759

>>7988784
The studies and anecdotes and criminal activities say a lot about how AGP are essentially violent depraved men. Maybe you aren't one idk, but the people characterized were horrible and they're constantly committing all those crimes in the news.

>>7988753
This is why I hate retarded agp theory. I'd be classed as agp because I'm bi, had a late onset of dysphoria (18, hormones at 20) and had a creepy fapping-in-panties fetish. But the idea that I transitioned because it was arousing, or that others exist to make me feel like a woman in bed, is laughable. I transitioned because of physical and social dysphoria.

I feel attraction, affection, sexual desire, and empathetic gratification for my partners. Male or female. I like feeling desired and making them feel desired. I'm not a fucking walking fetish.

>>7988753
have you ever felt very strong feelings toward another person? had a crush on someone? could you love someone, even platonically? if so, then you're capable of being in a romantic relationship.

you're never going to find a person who looks and acts exactly like your idealized self. and that's a good thing, because you can like them for their personality, find them attractive and feel a strong emotional connection with them regardless of the exact neurological pathway your brain takes during sex.

[spoiler]at least that's what i tell myself since i'm in a similar position[/spoiler]

>>7988809
Well said. I'm basically in the same boat, although my dysphoria set on at a younger age. Even so I still fapped in panties a few times when I was 15 as an outlet since I had no way of getting hormones until I was almost 18. And I care very much about my partner as well.

>>7988813
>tfw agp since childhood and haven't

>>7988800
and so what, you're concerned that male to female transgender identifying individuals are committing these crimes?
>>7988746
sounds more like lament ignorance to me than sarcasm. i can understand the news scaring you, it scares all of the people who hear about a shooting or any other crime. Does that mean that you should discriminate though? of course not. imagine people discriminating against you because of who you are. society would be a much worse place if we all were like that. also i don't know which country you're from, or what kind of crime is common around where you live. where i live most people who truly identify as a different gender that they were assigned at birth are not going around committing crimes because they are depraved or violent.

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>>7988809
Well I hate to break it to you but blanchard / lawrence would argue you are essentially full of shit and delusional / in denial about your true nature, I'm not yet at a point where I can definitively say I accept / reject the typology but agp can be hard to identify because it doesn't necessarily always manifest in a super obvious way.

>>7988813
> [spoiler]at least that's what i tell myself since i'm in a similar position[/spoiler]

How are you in a similar position?

>>7988858
Does my reality seriously break agp theory so hard that all you can do is say "you're in denial"?? Blanchardian anon, can you weigh in here?

Seriously. I just like having sex. People are cute. Bonus if I feel emotional connection to them.

I feel more comfortable having sex after HRT because my biology responds differently to it and my dysphoria is less crippling. Perhaps that's what you mean by being a fetishist? Seems like normal trans stuff to me. I don't think 'oh fuck yeah im a girl i have tits this makes eating pussy hot' i think 'this girls pussy is fucking hot i wanna eat it'

Anyway, glad to know reality breaks your dumbass theory

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>>7988883
You idiot I'm not the one saying this quit getting all buttblasted at the messenger. Also, no your situation sounds very familiar to mine and I consider myself agp.

Why are 4channers more interested in bunk pseudoscience rather than the actual scientific consensus? Is this part of this website's community's need to feel they hold some secret knowledge the normies don't have access to? Blanchard shit is tranny phrenology you retards.

>>7988910
>Why are 4channers more interested in bunk pseudoscience rather than the actual scientific consensus?
We are interested in the typology.

>>7988858
>>7988883
Honestly this is why Blanchard's theory is bullshit after all. In most of the research related to it all the data is selectively interpreted to fit the theory, and if something didn't match it they just came up with stuff like you said like "they're just in denial". Why should people take the theory seriously if they can't even take us seriously?
It reminds me of when I was at the gender clinic and talked to my main psychologist and then to another psychologist for the second opinion in the same week and they both asked me what my sexual orientation was and when I said I was bisexual with no preference they didn't seem satisfied and kept asking.
One seemed to conclude I was only really attracted to women and not men, whereas the other concluded I was only really attracted to men and not women. It must have been fun for them when they exchanged their findings.

>>7988897
You responded as if you were the person accusing me of being narcissistic when having sex. That is why agp theory is retarded, it creates huge misonceptions like that.

Why would you consider yourself agp? So many of its concepts, like meta attraction, do not strike a chord with me. The whole theory just strikes me as wrong and illfitting and its loaded with convoluted rationalizations for stuff that doesnt fit

>>7988858
>How are you in a similar position?
just that after learning a little more about it it seems pretty obvious that i fit the typical criteria for a*p, and hearing how it's apparently an entirely different sexuality and how all my attraction is just a projection of my ideal self on another person also makes me feel disgusting.

i didn't even realize it until i think i was having a discussion with someone on here (probably cara), and however they explained things made perfect sense.

but i think it's a lot more complicated than that. i don't see why it's not possible to experience aap/agp as a coping method pre/early transition, and also experience normal attraction in some way. otherwise, how would any self-proclaimed agps and transbians have any kind of functional relationships? every single one of them can't be that deep in denial.

>>7988923
>otherwise, how would any self-proclaimed agps and transbians have any kind of functional relationships?
Why couldn't they have AGP and a functional relationship?

>>7988944
i'm saying maybe they can have agp but not *only* experience attraction through autoerotic fantasies.

it's pointless to argue against the fact that most trans people can be separated into two approximate categories, but it seems odd to me that out of all the trans people in the world, very few a*ps would not have noticed that they can't be attracted to the same sex in any other way except as a projection of themselves.

>>7988922
No I was that anon, essentially what I meant but in more eloquent terms is "that is not necessarily my opinion, stop getting defensive / mad at me for telling you what blanchard / others who support the typology would say (but probably in a nicer / less obnoxious way.) Also, again people like anne lawrence (a self identified agp psychologist) would argue that AGP is far more complex than simply an erotic love of oneself as a woman, see

http://www.annelawrence.com/becoming_what_we_love.pdf

Also sorry for being kind of a jerk.

>>7987364
dude fuck off your post doesn't feel right

>>7988972
>feels before reals

>>7987364
i thought people here were saying that the blanchard study is biased pseudoscience.
/mtfg/ constantly says that it's just a meme.
we have neurological, physiological & genetic studies backing us up.
go to youtube & look up a youtuber by the name of "yorick"

>>7989023
>facts and stats and science are wrong
>listen to this youtuber i found

>>7988971
The whole "you fall in love with yourself as a woman" thing is bullshit too. I'm just not as dysphoric anymore. Sex itself is just better with estrogenic biology. This isn't some affectionate marriage to a fetish. Lawrence is a hack.

>>7989023
リイイイイイイイイイイイイイイイ!!!
(,,#ﾟДﾟ):∴;'･,;`:ｺﾞﾙｧ!!

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>>7989038
he cites peer-reviewed studies.
i guess you didn't understand what i was saying, so i'll as forthcoming as i can be.
there are neurological, physiological, & genetic factors in being transgender.
there are actual peer-reviewed studies confirming this.

the blanchard study IN PARTICULAR is believed to be outdated & afactual

>>7988971
>This insight plausibly explains the reports by some nonhomosexual MtF transsexuals that they no longer experience sexual arousal to the idea or reality of being female but still feel a comforting “nonsexual” (i.e., nonerotic) affectional bond to the idea or reality of being female and living as women.

literally saying they feel more comfortable and better about the idea of being a woman is somehow exactly the same as romantic affection for another person

psychology is a dumpster fire of an academic field

>>7989064
>there are neurological, physiological, & genetic factors in being transgender.
>there are actual peer-reviewed studies confirming this.
No there aren't. There is pseudoscience spread my ideologues who deliberately misinterpret research or deny it.

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>>7987364
>So why are liberals so keen to sweed the idea of HSTS/AGP under the rug
They aren't, the psychological community dismissed them because blanchards finding are unfounded and lack empirical evidence. HSTS is a new one that Ive only seen you morons talking about in the last week or two so Im assuming its completely unfounded with not even Blanchard supporting it.

>by the very admittance of the transpeople here and the majority of transpeople extraneous of this board, that's the main basis of transitioning ?
No it isn't, its just some misguided and deluded baby trannies, don't fool yourself.

>It seems that you all agree for the most part that transgenderism isn't based in medical fact
Why does that even matter? Legit who cares? Some guys wanna be girls, some girls wanna be guys, we have the cosmetic surgeries to make it a reality: Fuck off and leave them alone and let them use the bathroom, it doesn't effect you.

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>>7989041
Well honestly I'm just like almost any other mtf / ftm that fits into this typology, I hate it. It fills me with a deep sense of disgust / shame and is only convoluted by the fact that the more I learn about it the harder it is to objectively judge whether or not I find it to be true because of how internally biased I am against it. Hopefully with enough effort / reading I'll feel like I accurately understand the typology to the point that I can reject it or at least incorporate it in my life in a way that doesn't make me feel illegitimate / disgusted with myself.

Who knows where I'll end up landing on the issue but ignoring it only makes things worse.

>>7989070
>psychology is a dumpster fire of an academic field
Yet its the field that believes trans is a thing, unlike science.

>>7989102
Biology was the dumpster of science until the theory of evolution, the only reason Psychology lacks respect is because its a young science and has barely existed for a century.

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>>7989084
>HSTS is a new one that Ive only seen you morons talking about in the last week or two so Im assuming its completely unfounded with not even Blanchard supporting it.

>>7989084
You obviously don't know the first thing about it.

>>7989109
>the only reason Psychology lacks respect is because
it's used to trash truths like Blanchardism.

>>7988910
It makes few very loud people, like cara, blanchard anon, and rv-chan, feel better about themselves.

>>7989109
>the only reason Psychology lacks respect

Is because it was founded by Freud as a way to justify Abrahamic religions, and unlike all of the other sciences that were founded for the same purpose, it never got away from it's roots. Whereas the sexual revolution, humanism, and various other philosophies have come to glorify sexuality, physology still treats it as a disease to be cured.

Sciences and philosophies that rely on evidence liberate people. Psychology doesn't have any such hangups.

>>7988753
And it's spooks all the way down

>>7987364
HSTS/AGP shit is literally just a /tttt/ meme. Only the most retarded people actually believe it. What you're asking is the equivalent of going on /his/ and asking why academia is so bent on hiding the existence of the Finno-Korean hyperwar.

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>>7987364

Basically, narcissistic and extremely misogynist men have this creepy fantasy of being Really Literally Truly Women, because they have this fantasy of women as fuck toys and they have a fetish of seeing themselves as fuck toys, and you know, pointing out that it's a creepy fetish makes them go into a narcissistic rage so they deny it. HSTS are comparatively meek people (there's scientific proof that being gay is related to having an effeminate personality) so they let themselves be silenced by the creepy AGP trannies.

Basically there's a lot in common between AGP trannies and white/male supremacists like you, and just like you (usually) deny being a Nazi, they (usually) deny having AGP.

>>7989680
Why do you believe it's just a meme for retards?

>>7989710
No peer reviewed study has ever proven it. Blanchard's study is near universally cited as lacking empirical evidence by experts on transgender people. And the original ""research"" of some anonymous trannies on 4chan means nothing. There is no reason to believe in this shit unless there's an actual, properly run study published on it.

>>7989697
>there's scientific proof that being gay is related to having an effeminate personality
You're drunk /pol/, go home.

>>7989730
>it's wrong because it's not proven yet
So you'd have denied Einstein and Galileo too.

>>7989742
Uh, it's literally true. I didn't want to believe it at first either, as it leads the way to the idea that women too are genetically predisposed to feminine personalities (which is an idea that I otherwise oppose) but science is science.

A new study was in the news recently, with a sample size of 4k something. Will post if I find it.

All of this doesn't mean that straight people can't be effeminate, that women can't be masculine, that society doesn't impose exaggerated femininity on women to oppress them, etc. etc. etc. At most, it hints that gay men (and by conjecture perhaps straight women) are statistically more likely to have a somewhat more effeminate personality, that's all.

>>7989759
Yes, that's literally how science works. When it's proven, it can be accepted as fact. But it hasn't been proven.

>being proven by science has nothing to do with whether it's real or not

Do you believe in chiropracty, ghosts, and hollow earth too?

>>7989779
I'll believe Einstein, Galileo and Blanchard over anti-trans dogma, thanks.

>>7988883
>Blanchardian anon
i'm trying really hard to ignore /tttt/ because i fucking failed
but i've encountered a lot of people outside here who don't seem to think i've failed
someday the truth will win. always.

>>7989823
But you have converted some people.

>>7989834
i have, but mostly they've just applied their own twist on the topic and turned it into some crazy thing that doesn't match reality and made it look much worse than it is
though i know there are at least a few people who didn't do that -- it's just that, well, they tend to hang around places that aren't /tttt/

>>7989865
You only notice the ones who twist it.

>>7988971
>Lawrence
Is a full blown rapist. There's a good reason he lost his job. Are we actually taking his manifesto seriously?

>>7990053
>she
>her
FTFY

>>7990063
He wasn't just an old man who went AGP hon but used his job to sbuse his patients. He shouldn't have been humored, he should be in prison.

>>7990078
As a transphobe you probably want her in a men's prison. Can't allow her to get off with merely the punishment female criminals get!

>>7990094
Men who rape are men, he even used his power to get away with a slap on the wrist.

Yes, he deserves to suffer amongst his own kind. That's the only thing you can do with those who prey on the weak. Idk why this is so common with AGP hons.

>>7990115
>Men who rape are men,
And women who rape are women. She would be a rapist woman if the rape part wasn't a lie you are spreading.

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>>7990129
He was striped of his ability to practice medicine for a reason. And physically hypermasc (agp) men who put on a wig and violate others aren't women or MTFs. You can't seriously stick up for this man can you? You insult everyone by equating him to mtf

>>7990094
>>7990129
>arguing with rapee-chan.

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>>7989865
>>7989823
There's something I'm trying to figure out. The classic Blanchard theory says that even being slightly bi like >>7988768 said, is smoking gun proof of AGP and makes you just as bad as the people he studied.

I don't know if this was part of the stuff he modeled wrong, after all his journal claimed that bi didn't exist. And lots of 'early' transitioners like Pejic are bi and resemble hsts more, even Jennings and others are bi. So I don't know if that breaks that part of the theory or means they're just masked AGP.

Pejic might be becoming a Twinkhon and now hangs out with Jenner so maybe that means any sort of bi is AGP, everyone is fucked then.

>>7990155
I'm not sticking up for any man.

>>7990186
i diverge from blanchard on bisexual trans women who are primarily androphilic
'bisexual, primarily androphilic' appears to be default female sexuality, so seeing it in a certain subset of hstses is not impossible
i also think you're hypersensitive to potential agp traits -- nobody in the general population is going to think andreja is atypical next to cis women in the way jenner is

>>7990220
>'bisexual, primarily androphilic' appears to be default female sexuality,
Isn't the same true for males too? I wonder if we could expect gay HSTS in the same proportion as the gay population of cis people of their transitioned sex.

>>7990237
no, men are far less bisexual than women
the brain sex research is starting to show (this remains complex and no real statements can be made, please note i'm going out on a limb here) that a lot of neurological -- and thus psychological -- sex differences come from sexual orientation specifically, so the cluster of people attracted to men will behave in a more feminine matter and the cluster of people attracted to women in a more masculine one, ruling out for once and for all the possibility of gay-in-transitioned-sex hstses

>>7990220
>hypersensitive
If you scrutinize yourself and others, you get good at looking for any sign of sickness

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>>7989178
?

>>7988753
When a pseudoscience runs contrary to your experience, it's inane not to immediately stop believing it.

>>7990273
Are you aap? I was trying to find something else but ran. Into http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7777152/ if it is you, then doesn't this mean you have a weird fettish for ugly crossdressing men?

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>>7990474
>runs contrary to your experience

It does in some ways sure, but that doesn't mean that in other instances I can't identify with parts of the typology. And again Just because the typology makes me deeply uncomfortable / sick to my stomach, it still doesn't change the fact that their are many anons on this board that fit the a*p profile that find great solace and comfort in being able to identify / (assuming blanchard is correct) better understand their nature. It's just as wrong for me to erase their understanding of themselves as it is for blanchard to assume to understand mine.

Also, as I said in a different post above it's extremely hard to be objective with myself when it comes to the typology because of my own personal biases against it, that's why I can't just confidently outright reject it yet if that makes sense.

>>7990511
>many anons on this board that fit the a*p profile that find great solace and comfort in being able to identify / (assuming blanchard is correct) better understand their nature.
That's disgusting, I don't understand how they could be so shameless. It makes me mad.

>>7990273
>no, men are far less bisexual than women
Is that biological though or just cultural thanks to male homophobia?

If what you say about neurology is correct then does that mean bisexuals falls into the heterosexual cluster, to fit what you said about HSTS bisexuality?

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>>7990526
rvchan do you think all a*p mtfs / ftms are disgusting or only the ones that transition past a certain age / are unable to assimilate into society as the gender they identify as?

>>7990526
Remove spook

>>7990547
I don't know, I'm not any better than them, and there's always the risk that I could be one of them and that health issues and suppressing medication simply masked that, like I said, Andrej could be a potential AGP so then I wouldn't be any better. Short term episodes without cypro don't prove anything, since being without T + the estrogen I've somehow taken it might have just altered my neurology and drives to mask it. I'd have to spend a couple years with high t to test it, but obviously I wouldn't ever be able to try that.

What I honestly believe is that people without shame, like those mentioned in that post are bad. People who feel shame are trying to do the right thing.

Shame is the only thing that keeps us from mutating into something horrible. Once you lose it, you don't care about hurting others or becoming something horrible. There are lines I would sooner die than cross.

>>7990547
>are unable to assimilate into society as the gender they identify as?
it would probably be kinder to die once you were certain that was the outcome

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>>7990570
Hm it seems like you are somwhat like me (but fit better into the hsts typology) in the sense that the disgust of being a*p / blanchards typology has convoluted your sense of self to the point that you can't even somewhat objectively asses your reasons for transitioning.

>like those mentioned in that post are bad

Not all of them transition you know? many of them choose to repress for various reasons, I think the typology helps them in the sense gives them further clarity on their situation / a possible explanation as to why they are that way.


It seems like your biggest problem with agp mtfs are the late transitioning ones that have no problem "invading" / attempting to "invade" female spaces despite not passing as the gender they identify as / doing very little to socially transition. This is also an area I feel a great deal of internalized transphobia around and even agree with you to a certain extent but too a much less extreme, it's something that feels confusing to navigate.

>>7990623
in the sense that it*

>>7990570
But never mind this, I'm not even sure if I'm trans. It could just be a compulsion to maintain a child like body, to try and make it exactly like it was earlier. I don't even know why I'm talking this stuff.

>>7990636
lol you are trans It's obvious even to me.

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>>7990638
not really. the more obvious your trans attributes are, the less likely you are to be legitimately trans.

>>7990656
So you accept that you are trans on some level even if it isn't legitimate?

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I'm a transgender woman attracted to women, but I don't have AGP or anything related to it.
I mean you can push this shit as hard as you want but my existence alone seems to fuck it up pretty bad t b q h family

>>7990623
>socially transition
I think of myself as a male desu and I liked Femboy mode. I wouldn't call myself a girl and my ideals for passing involve people thinking you're female when you have male clothing, no makeup, short hair and no visible breasts or curves. I don't see why I shouldn't do it that way when I could live live that well into my teens. People just think I'm an underage/effeminate boy now when I do that though, so obviously there's things I need to fix and I wouldn't socially transition until I can do that.

There's a good chance that if I gained weight or used fem clothes or hair or makeup it could work for what people here call passing. I don't want to touch any of those though, what people here call effort is really nothing more than using tricks to cover up failure. I think surgery is the only way to stay true to my ideals.
>>7990638
I was fine with Femboy mode even last year and could function well, I'm going crazy by now and even that isn't working anymore. It's as if you had a drug that worked great at holding cancer or HIV at bay and suddenly the disease mutates and drugs can't keep it from growing out of control.

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>>7990690
Nobody has ever been able to offer up proof that I'm trans, idiot.

>>7990737
It doesn't matter if you're trans or not. You need to take antiandrogens or soon enough be fucked beyond repair.

Just have a little common sense.

>>7990745
Wait why doesn't it matter if she's trans or not

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>>7990749
Gnc would probably find it a nightmare to have a grown man body too.

>>7990761
am man on estrogen, can confirm
although
>cara
>gnc

>>7990781
Better safe than sorry. They really should make antiandrogens/blockers as easy and otc to take as contraception.

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>>7990737
Cara would you like me to list the many reasons why I'm fairly positive you are trans?

>>7990730
>involve people thinking you're female when you have male clothing, no makeup, short hair and no visible breasts or curves.

Interesting, we seem to share a similar ideal aesthetic in regards to passing but I'm sure most if not all mtfs envy the privilege of being able to dress / act in an extremely gnc way of their transitioned sex and still be gendered correctly / "pass."

Sometimes I think I'll never socially transition out of fear / inability to pass to my standards and simply live as a femboy forever but that doesn't seem sustainable as you seem to be finding.


>There's a good chance that if I gained weight or used fem clothes or hair or makeup it could work for what people here call passing. I don't want to touch any of those though, what people here call effort is really nothing more than using tricks to cover up failure.

No offense but your measurements for what constitutes as "passing" / "failure" seem a little skewed. There are plenty of cis females that could never pass as female if they were to do what you describe, and I don't just mean the super masculine looking ones. Although I know that I have no desire to wear makeup / wear extremely feminine clothing to "pass", I also recognize that if I want to pass / assimilate into society and be gendered correctly I will have to compromise in some places.

I wish I could just be on estrogen my whole life and indulge my AGP in private while living as a (gnc) man without it being weird and awkward

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>>7987686
>>7987690

omg... NOOOOO

>>7989797
>putting einstein and galileo in the same category as blanchard
delusional trannies, everybody

>>7990186
you're literally seeing how the typology fails at categorizing people and still insist on it being, somehow, true

you're fucking retarded

>>7987364
>all agree for the most part that transgenderism isn't based in medical fact
lurk more you fag

>>7990730
>I don't want to touch any of those though, what people here call effort is really nothing more than using tricks to cover up failure
hey me

>>7990576
>tfw im unable to assimilate because my agp/male/autistic energy is too strong and girls dont see me as one of them half the time
Believe me, I wish euthanasia were more accessible.

>>7992462
>girls dont see me as one of them half the time
Girls see you as one of them the other half of the time? You're a very lucky agp.

>>7992471
This one girl talked about selling eggs and asked if I knew about it (nice girl, dont think she was scoping for a clock)
I've had women talk about periods or nomanallowed club stuff.
On the other hand I'm uncanny and clockable to anyone who's seen a young unpassing tranny in their life
People also can treat me weird
If this is 'lucky' then luck is fucked.
Im too shy, depressed and stuck in boring miserable adult life to socialize all that much anyway
t. Ghost of transbian future

>>7992500
>If this is 'lucky' then luck is fucked.
Indeed.

What other clocked/unclocked encounters have you had?

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>>7992462
>tfw always assumed male since cutting hair short.

Count your blessings anon, hon-twink mode may be easier, but holy shit is it draining.

>>7992559
Clocked: Creepy fat mexican asks me what my real name is when I was cashiering
Unclocked: Butch dyke in buttonup hands me a slip with her number on it on the bus home the same day

Clocked: Girl at work who goes to drag shows and knows tgirls talks to me about a local show
Unclocked(?): Self-admittedly homophobic Bulgarian-Tennesseean coworker man hits on me. Hard.

Clocked: "Are you a man or a woman." From a negroid at a bus stop
Unclocked: Nice young hispanic guy at a bus stop offers me a hoodie when I'm cold

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>>7992500
I don't understand why people are so paranoid about getting "clocked"?

I mean, clearly Cait is not your average woman.
Anyone can see that.
But why is that so horrible?
Why can't people be different from the norm?

I'm a cis gay guy and I have been called fag a lot, I'm not really sure why.

I've just gotten used to it and now it seems kind of like they are pointing out the obvious.

Like, wow, aren't you perceptive!
You have gaydar!
Congratulations!

It's like they want a medal or something.

I always just ignore them or if they are in my face I say "Yep, I love the cock. Thanks for pointing out the obvious." and usually they just walk away.

>>7992632
Because being a tranny causes many of us a draining misery about our physical bodies or the way people relate to us with regards to gender. Its gender dysphoria.

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>>7992632
Because many people unconsciously / consciously do not consider non passing trans women to be real women and therefor subject them to both implicit and explicit forms of transphobia / delegitimize their identity / make them feel "othered" / etc on a daily basis.


I can go into greater detail if you would like but I'm feeling kind of lazy right now so hopefully this will suffice.

Also, not to play the oppression olympics but social stigma faced for being / acting "gay" =/= social stigma faced for being a non passing mtf.

>>7990623
>biggest problem
Yes, I think a lot of what I feel is similar to you. I should try and be more like you, stop the spite and hate for everything.
>>7990873
>There are plenty of cis females that could never pass as female if they were to do what you describe
I could do that well into my teens, I should be able to do that. It's the way my body is supposed to be.

I have to be optimistic, a lot of the faliure is borderline faliure, people sometimes still might make mistakes. If I bought FFS, it might be enough to make things like they were.

The problem is that unless I'm exceptionaly lucky, FFS would make femboy mode nonviable. I said I like it, but I need to let go of it if I'm to move forward, I hope I don't regret that later.

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>>7994377
>Femboy/Twinkhon
That honestly hurts my self esteem tbqh

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>>7994551
S-sorry I deleted that post cause it made me feel disgusting about myself. Never mind it.

>>7994577
Is cute boy mode really the same thing as that?

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>>7987364
>Trying to take the moral highground and labeling self as truthful when we are all just a simulation anyway

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>>7996850
Personally I view the term twinkhon as a mtf that wishes they could pass / go fulltime but are unable to due to various reasons and so present as cute / androgynous gnc guys.

Femboy is someone that is more or less comfortable with some form of a male identity but presents as an androgynous / gnc / cute guy in the same / similar way a twinkhon does.


Maybe this is more an example of the limitations of human language / different interpretations of somewhat abstract terminology.

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>>7997176
>we are all just a simulation anyway

mfw

>>7997416
*present as a cute / androgynous gnc guy.*

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>>7987364

Join the OFFICIAL /polgb/ Discord:

https://discord.gg/nR4hJZ4

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>>7997416
That makes them sound identical. I don't like that, it really undermines something that had made me happy. People thinking I was cute was something that gave me a boost. This other thing is something I find horrible.

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>>8000735

.......

Okay fine fair enough, define in your view the differences between a twinkhon / femboy then to clear this issue up.

>>8000761
I don't know what to say now

>>8000761
I guess I thought it was neoteny and childlike traits on a male that completely distinguished them from regular men. And androgynous traits that could corrupt 'straight' men. And I probably have AAP so it was fun.
Twinkhon sounds like something horrifying from http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7777152/ I'd rather die than be like that. Femgen doesn't like them or think they're femboys either. But then again Pejic's looks somehow translated to Twinkhon.This completely takes the good out of something that had given me comfort.

I hope I'm not one my body is small, so that's a definite advantage. And I don't take estrogen and everything I wear ques male so I'm deliberately doing stuff to not "pass" and I probaby could if I ever tried. I hope so. Pejic worries me and this all just makes me feel worse about myself.

>>8011810
that thread stuck in your mind, huh?

>>8011969
I found it by accident and got sick

...Sorry, I'm getting insane again

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>>8011810
>And androgynous traits that could corrupt 'straight' men.

That makes sense, okay fair enough.

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>>8012435
But then look at how terribly Pejic turned out. I have no faith in this anymore.

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>>8012516
Stop pushing the Pejic = twinkhon meme, she looks alright in most pictures.

>>8012547
With makep and good lighting. Or maybe she just got fillers recently or something.

>>8012547
I mean, she's still clockable even in this picture, so... ?

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>>8012575
....Whatever.
>>8012584
Yes but have you ever considered the fact that part of the reason it's so easy to clock Pejic is due to the fact that she is to a certain extent famous for being transgender? If you didn't know anything about her history, do you really think it would be so easy to clock her?

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>>8012584
And I think my facial structure is sorta similar and I have low body weight and not as much baby fat which I think masked those problems for Pejic when younger.

I think that's another mark in the slash my neck column

>>8012584
not really, actually. to the average person on the street, she passes with flying colors. The only reason you can clock her is because you look at any masculine feature and judge her as not passing because you already know better.

jealous hon is jealous

>>8012601
> it's so easy to clock Pejic
Like I said I have similar features so I'm aware of the flaws and could tell even if I didn't know. False positives don't matter if I catch them.

>>8012612
Who are you directing that too?

>>8012601
>>8012612
No, I would clock her if she had that picture up on Facebook for example.

She looks good here though >>8012610

>>8012628
That's because babyfat

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>>8012610
>and not as much baby fat

Yeah true, that might be part of it. To be honest it's easy as fuck for me to clock Pejic as well but I'm pretty sure thats mostly due to the context that I know her from and the the fact that I've spent too much time looking at sexually dimorphic traits in the human face.

>I think that's another mark in the slash my neck column

...Don't talk like that please, jesus.

also >>8012612 isn't me.

>>8012648
I wouldn't die unless I was sure I'd failed. I'm on course to meeting my goals so that talk is premature, it's just a plan B.

Seriously though, if you look at all the suicide methods you'll see that everything except arterial exsanguination and maybe drug OD is horrible. I'd never be able to touch the others.

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>>8012684
>except arterial exsanguination

No thanks, I hate blood. Doesn't killing yourself seem kind of pointless though when you've already suffered through so much? Thats how I rationalize it at least for myself.

>>8012707
I have to do bad things to little mice and stuff for my job all the time. Invivo is visceral and horrible. Slashing my neck would be no worse.

I'm not planing to die, but my reason for living is knowing that things will be good and I'll get to be happy. I didn't enjoy pain and if I were sure that were what I was destined for, then I'd have little reason to hang around. This is insurance that will always endure I will never be helpless.

>>8012684
>I wouldn't die unless I was sure I'd failed. I'm on course to meeting my goals so that talk is premature, it's just a plan B.
Why is it so important to you that dying is the alternative?

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>>8012978
To be fair, I can understand why suicide would be considered an option if all else failed in transitioning, that doesn't mean I endorse it though.

>>8013069
>>8012978
I'm not even sure I'm trans though. I just want to live with no pain.