>Don't want more Muslims in my country >Don't

Start your own political party.

Vote for the right-leaning party, grab your fuckslut and go live in the woods for 4 years?

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>>7983472
The muslims are not the problem, the right wing politics we have had for the last 10+ years has generated the muslim "problem".

>implying right wingers are homophobic

Just because some of them are against gay marriage doesn't make them homophobic. Moreover, most gay people are whores and need no "marriage"

>>7983472
Right wing parties are literally the ones who let them all in

>>7983472

>right wingers might take away your ability to get married
>Muslims might murder or rape you

wow what a difficult and thought provoking choice

>>7983554
R u dumb?
Srsly

"my country"
Oh so you own the place faggot? Your parents most likely came here on a ship so please fuck off, like you own the country.

Of course this shit depends partly on where OP lives, assuming he's not memeing the fuck out of us with Swedish posts.

Accept the general conscensus of climatologists, that the world is already past the point of no return for global warming and we're only accelerating the rate at which we destroy it, the atmosphere will be completely destroyed, solar radiation will kill all humans and and mutate all insects, then finally solar winds will blast the surface of the planet into a hot volcano hell, and the only thing aliens will find buried under the slag is Hot Topic sneakers, bibles, chastity cages and fat-free carb-free protein-free food pellets. And styrofoam, lots and lots of styrofoam.

>>7983548
>>7983555
>>7983603
>>7983620
I'm European and the situation is certainly getting worse and it's not just a right wing meme, I just want to stop the development before it's too late.

>>7983640
>I'm European and the situation is certainly getting worse
As I said it depends on where you live.
The situation in France is different than the one in Poland.

Although I'd rather not live in any of these countries.

>>7983472
Swefag here. If we vote for the biggest nationalist party gays might not be allowed to adopt children, that's it. They don't even hate gays and would probably change their opinion if research revealed that two dads are just as fine as a mom and a dad.

If we vote for any other party then homos will seek asylum here, get put in a ghetto, and then get murdered there instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTVtYvVwUXg

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>>7983472
Your note gonna have any rights when you're shot dead by angry arabs, vote right for your own survival and cry over the brutality of reality

>>7983640
Couldn't agree more senpai. Shame people are so afraid of speaking about that here.

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>>7983548
>Dems and liberals in charge for last decade
>HURRRR EVUL RIGHTIES
Fuck off.

>>7983570
Do they even care anymore? Trump has said nothing about gay marriage and it's only becoming legal in more and more places.

>>7983603
>t. Jon "YOU OWN NOTHING WHITEY" Stewart
Try living in the Middle East and see how tolerant they are.

>>7983708
>They don't even hate gays and would probably change their opinion if research revealed that two dads are just as fine as a mom and a dad.

>righties having fact based opinions

top
k
e
k

>>7983621
P O E T R Y

Tragic, horrifying poetry

>>7983472
Call Anders Behring Breivik for advice

>>7983621
>Hot Topic sneakers, bibles, chastity cages and fat-free carb-free protein-free food pellets. And styrofoam
I wonder what will aliens think what was meant by this.

Considering that the left is more against your rights I would say you just should just bite the bullet

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>>7984014
Sweden doesn't have the same political climate as America. GG embarassing yourself.

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What is this meme that Muslim migrants aren't a problem?

>>7983472
You know only poor stupid people worry about Islamic immigration right?
I suggest you educate yourself, earn more money and move to a more affluent place.
Then you won't be surrounded by desperate refugees.
If you live in one of those poor stupid countries like Hungary, I suggest you move to one of the not so poor and stupid western or Northern European countries.

>>7983472
Do what you think is best

>>7984152
so abandon your countrymen? Can you please stop giving then rest of us a bad name you spineless coward

>>7984159
a smart person would leave their own family for their own benefit, considering countrymen is just retarded

>>7984167
so not only do you lack any sort of loyalty to the people who have fought and died for you, who make your food and protect you from your countrymen whom have been led astray you would sell out you our parents? You are the perfect example of a snake in the grass just waiting for your chance to take advantage of anyone you can

>>7984184
*your parents

>>7984167
This is why the west is doomed

>>7984159
>>7984167
Seriously.
It's 2017.
We live under the new world order.
Nation states are a 19th century hangover.
You'd know that if you weren't from a poor and stupid country.

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>>7984192

>>7984184
Also if you weren't from a poor and stupid country your military would be made up of robots and you'd import most of your food from poorer and stupider countries.
Rich and smart countries don't grow their own food or use men to fight wars.
Lol @ your poverty and stupidity.

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>>7984202
kek I can't believe I fell for your bait you get me desu

>>7984206
I'm being very serious.

>>7983843
White right-wingers don't want LGBTs to have any rights either, they think LGBT acceptance is what is destroying the West.

>>7983886
He's basically done a lot of virtue signalling against trans rights though. And a lot of his entourage have an anti-LGBT record.

>>7983888
Nobody said anything about tolerance, why don't you fuck off back to your containment board?

>>7984054
Not having to live in the same country as Muslims isn't a right.

>>7984138
>daily wail

>>7984283
>White right-wingers don't want LGBTs to have any rights
And that's why you want to import more Mudslims?

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>>7983472
>tfw being American stops all the mujahideen sandnigs from just walking into my country
>tfw Trump is president though

>>7983879
It hasn't been a decade since "muh WMDs" yet, and on top of that almost everything bad about America is because of right wingers.

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ITT: Europeans.

>>7983548
>regurgitating what he heard authority figures say with zero critical thinking involved
Honestly, you're an idiot.

>>7983601
What is wrong about what he said?

>>7983555
Not really, most of the mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East has been the work of leftist parties, and the few "rightists" that did the same are only considered right wing because European politics are so far left.

>>7984014
Leftists are so fucking rabid. Holy shit. Temper that extremism. Are you triggered by the political incorrectness here?

>>7983472
I voted right wing for the first time in my life. I can handle deprivation of a small number of liberties for another 4 years.

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>>7984511
>it's leftists who are rabid
>not American right wingers who voted in a guy based on catchy slogans

>>7984477
He said that meeting the definition of a homophobe doesn't make one homophobic, then told some more homophobic lies.

>>7984511
Right wingers have OPENLY ADMITTED that they would gladly ruin their own lives and those of their families if doing so would "trigger" leftists. They also frequently reject the scientific facts behind global warming and gender identity, instead ignoring the iterative nature of science and clinging to theories long since discredited.

>>7984532
And what are you going to do when that four years is up? The middle east crisis isn't going to "go away", so you'll either have to accept living your whole life as a second-class citizen, or seek an actual solution to the problem.

>>7984536
>implying Clinton did not also try to use catchy slogans
>implying Clinton failed based on the battle of the jingoism
>implying Clinton did not fail because as Secretary of State she sponsored Syrian and Libyan jihadists

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>>7985035
>meeting the definition of a homophobe
Opposing gay marriage is the definition of a homophobe?

So, Clinton and Obama have both been homophobes for the vast majority of their political careers, while Trump has been supporting us for his entire political career? Thank God he won, I always knew he was /our guy/

>>7983548
this

>>7983472
If the right wing parties in your country are still anti-lgbt rights that means you're country is poor, sub-human (read Slavic, Greek or whatever else lives over there) and stupid so truly I doubt any Muslim with an ounce of self-respect would move there.

>tfw people will continue blaming capitalism's problems on "muh liberals" or "muh conservatives"

The left is basically the "kill whitey" side now and is rapidly becoming just as anti-lgbt as the right. I'd say defect to the right and try and bring the right back from the Christcucks and more towards a libertarian bent.

>>7985167
Yes, opposing equal rights for gays DOES make you a homophobe, And choosing not to enforce something at the Federal level doesn't mean you oppose it, as lolbertarians like you love to say when things like anti-discrimination laws or healthcare come up. And Trump may be openly pro-gay, but he also hasn't really done anything to help the LGBT community since becoming president, and during the campaign he did willingly attend events hosted by extremely anti-LGBT religious fundamentalists.

>>7985549
Libertarianism implies open borders though.

>>7985549
Why would the right choose fags over Christians?

>>7985102
>not a Trump supporter
>this obviously makes him a Clinton supporter
>third parties so irrelevant that they're not even considered
You Americans ACTUALLY believe your country is a democracy?

>>7984283
umm yeah transtrenders is a big issue among the west

when you corrupt the ideals of modern society to allow retarded non logic into the market place of ideas you get what we have now faggot

now people with actual mental issues that need help, well they need help in whatever way they can get it that will actually cure them...or if all else fails allow them to function as well as they can in society.

>>7985845
wut

We need our own Israel with our own Law of Return.

LGBT people only.

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>>7984473
Capitalism creates poverty, crime rates in low income areas are higher. Go figure.

Wtf.jpg
Everyone forgets she was lgbt then when she needed that fags she said she liked them
1. Hate faggots
2. Need them
3. Tell them I no hate anymore
4. Profit 2017
5. Fuck my Haiti scam got exposed
6. Fucking faggots everytime

>>7986246
Is this mutilated post talking about Hillary?

>>7986252
Pretty much just didn't want to put that much effort into it

>>7986270
At least make it coherent next time.

>>7983554
There is more to LGBT than just homosexuals.

Trans issues are steadily becoming more important in politics now that gay marriage is settled in most of the world.

>>7986246
>These people want to make public education worse.

>>7986296
> implying not putting effort into something means it will be good
Seriously

>>7985740
Christianity is becoming increasing more and more irrelevant in nearly every western nation and the percentage of Christians in those countries is at an all time low. It won't be long before LGBT people and their supporters outnumber them, if it hasn't already happened.

>>7985390
>they'll continue blaming the migrants instead of the nonstop wars by the MIC driving them out of their countries

laffo

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>>7985926
I'm pretty sure the Nordic countries have proven that nothing beats a mix of capitalism and socialism. Nordic model is best model

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>>7983472
>if muslims attain any sort of power there will be no lgbt rights
>even when conservatives are in power there are still lgbt gains and support
>at this point only the craziest of conservatives care to wager support on hard line lgbt stances
real hard decision.

>>7983472
>right wing extremists don't want gays marrying each other through the church and adopt children
>muslisms LITERALLY HAVE THE DEATH PENALTY FOR BEING GAY, AND THEY WILL CHOP YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF

Mmmmhhhhh, really makes you think

>>7986547
You're a big guy

>>7986457
>socialism is anything the government does
Rely make u think

M8, I have met many muslim people, and literally not one of them has ever mentioned lgbt. The things you see on tv are representative of the governments of a couple of countries. It doesnt apply to all 1.5 billion people. Chill the fuck out.

>>7983708
Or more importantly, that having two dads is better than no dad.

>>7986774
I have never and will never say that

Hate Islam, not muslims. As long as you don't allow their stone age level culture in your country there's no problem.

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>>7984399
t. daily show told me

>>7986784
> never mentioned he was gay
Kek what the fuck m8 did you really expect a reaction ?

>>7986786
Nordic countries aren't socialist at all

>>7984399
the only good things about the obama administration were carry ons from the bush era with the exception of a few facets of the ACA. that idiot fucked things up even worse than bush, the only thing he really did right was inherit an already recovering economy.

>>7986572
I am one in comparison to you.

>>7986246
Meanwhile, on the other side

>hey guys I love fags
>trannies can come piss in whatever bathroom they want at my place
>oh shit i'm president now
>lets see, who should I appoint as my vice president, my cabinet, etc
>i know, how about some of the most anti-lgbt politicians in the country

>>7986793
Muslims aren't real people, their religion forbids them to have independent thoughts. Muslims are Islam. They're like the Borg.

>As long as you don't allow their stone age level culture in your country there's no problem.
That's the problem, they don't accept the concept of separation of church and state. Their doctrine is literally "conquer, convert, subvert, or kill all non-believers" and it always has been. You don't "live and let live" with Islam. When Muslims take the 51% majority in any government position, it's Sharia law from that point, no negotiation, no tolerance, no exceptions. Every Muslim that enters is one step closer to Sharia law.

>>7986935
You are just being racist no Muslim ever has killed a gay person

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>>7986784
The thing is, you're wrong. Those Muslims you met? Why would they personally sperg to their host about how they would love to behead them?
They may not be ones who will throw fags off the roof but they will support the ones who throw fags off the roof over supporting fags. As they say,
>I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the tribe.
And so on all the way down to Muslim against kafir, if you think homosexuals will stand high even among kafir you are beyond deluded.
Your other point is misguided as well, the worst never has to apply to the whole group. It wasn't the majority that gassed the jews, or murdered millions in Cambodia or the USSR, or continue to do so in China. When 15% of the ideology are fervent lunatics and a full 60% think those fervent lunatics are right on the money but just don't personally to do the ugly, heavy lifting, there you are setting yourself up for the fall you deserve by ignoring the reality and saying "Well I've met a couple that were okay." They are the minority if that is even the case.
Islam needs to be destroyed. What the left doesn't get, whilst they simultaneously denigrate all other religions, is that it is not a matter of race but the survival of western ideals and gays with them.

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>>7986935
Pretty much. The Islamic world is one that creates two camps, the Dar Al-Salam/Dar Al-Islam (House of the Peace/Submitted) and the Dar Al-Harb/Dar Al-Kafr (House of War/Heathens)

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>>7986966

Its funny that liberals think the left loves LGBT people and the right hates them.

The left literally cons LGBT and PoC into voting for them and then turn the blind eye when they get elected.

Hilary was literally against gay marriage until 2013.

>>7983472
How can you say the right wing is against LGBT rights? Is gay marriage really more of a 'right' than not having a neighbor who wants to throw you off a roof?

>>7986463
>>7986547
Show me one example of LGBT rights IMPROVING under a conservative dominated government. And no, "we'll only take away SOME of your rights" doesn't count. Some conservative movements are worse than others, honestly, but I have yet to see one that's pro-LGBT in any real meaningful way.

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>>7987550

>>7986966
Fuck off with your concern trolling.

>>7987219
Yeah and the Old Testament says gay sex should be punishable by death. It would be great if we could declare allegiance to such problematic works of literature to be a mental illness, but that simply isn't an option at this point. Instead, we should judge people by what we know of their past and personal beliefs.

>>7987550
Neither Hillary nor Trump seemed particularly likely to repeal gay marriage by 2016. But Trump still involved himself with anti-gay cultists, Hillary did not,

>>7987622
You have a right to not be discriminated against on the basis of your gender. You do not have a right to infringe on the property rights of others.

>>7990379
>Yeah and the Old Testament says gay sex should be punishable by death.

But comparatively few Christians actually believe that gay people should be executed.

>>7983472
From my experiences in the UK, muslims tend to group together in self-imposed ghettos, and virtually all the ones you see outside of those areas are a) not actually muslims, or b) such moderates that they don't give a shit about your sexual orientation.
The terrorist attacks from non-brits also tend to occur due to proximity, rather than border laxity; they'll always find a way to sneak in here, wheter you vote right or left wing.
>Then again, despite the Tories' many fuck ups, they were the ones to legalise gay marriage after the many years of Labour

>>7990351
>Show me one example of LGBT rights IMPROVING under a conservative dominated government.
Less immigration.

>>7990459
>they were the ones to legalise gay marriage
That really makes up for talking hard on borders and terrorism and then happily permitting Islamic homophobia to continue unabated.

Muslim-immigration is not an issue since I come from an upper middle-class family and I will never have to compete for resources with low-caste immigrants from Muslim countries. My college professors and the Daily Show say all working-class whites are Nazi-racist-christians, so Muslims are our allies!

t. your friendly leftist trust-fund babby on /lgbt/

>>7990448
And that's the kind of reasoning you should apply to Muslims. I'm not saying Muslims are pro-LGBT, just that using what their holy book says isn't a good argument.

>>7990461
That isn't a ``right", and even if it was, when have conservatives reduced immigration in a way favorable to the LGBT community, while not also depriving the LGBT of other rights?

>>7990479
Please refer to the first section of >>7990379

>>7990548
>And that's the kind of reasoning you should apply to Muslims. I'm not saying Muslims are pro-LGBT, just that using what their holy book says isn't a good argument.

But they actually do believe in Islamic law, that's the inherent difference, as has been shown in polling in countries like France. That's why there's a distinction.

>>7990548
>Please refer to the first section of >>7990379
Truth hurts, doesn't it?

>>7990548
>And that's the kind of reasoning you should apply to Muslims. I'm not saying Muslims are pro-LGBT, just that using what their holy book says isn't a good argument.

It is when people coming from those countries take the word in the Quran as directly God's word put into paper, and therefore a fact. Also when the laws of those countries are based on said book, and they grow in a cultural background that brings them up to think that it's okay to want to exterminate the LGBT.

>>7983472
sharia law vs christian sharia law
either way us faggots lose

>>7990583
>christian sharia law
What the hell are you talking about?

This lady sounds pretty British to me my friends, and she's there to free the UK from some terrible, terrible stuff. Have a listen.

https://youtu.be/IDjHnGOX8Kg?t=6m

>>7986898
Trump chose Pence because he needed the conservative Christian vote. Similar to Obama choosing Biden as his VP to get the old white man vote.

>>7990614
Also it took just about a minute for everyone to accuse Pence of wanting to go full Emperor Palpatine on fags without a lick of evidence that he ever said the words "electroshock therapy".

>>7985926
>implying poverty exists in Western Europe
>implying Eastern Europe isn't both poor and low crime
kys commie trash

>>7990614
The difference is that, while Biden (and most VPs in American history) do pretty much nothing of importance, Trump has delegated a lot to Pence.

>>7990666
Like what?

>>7990666
Still better than the alternative, Democrat digits.

>>7990694
>>7990696
*links the Advocate and Mother Jones*

Zap that, drumpftards!

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>the only countries that have gay marriage are Christian or historically Christian
>the only countries where homosexuality is punishable by death are Muslim

MUH CHRISTIANITY IS JUST AS BAD AS ISLAM
MUH CAKES AND FAGGOT PARADES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PHYSICALLY SURVIVING

>>7990755
>the only countries that have gay marriage are Christian or historically Christian
The word you're looking for is "secular"

>>7990753
>implying the GOP weren't cucks to pick Trump

>>7990775
No I mean Christian. Non-Christian secular countries don't have gay marriage. Singapore, China, India, Taiwan?

>>7990793
>No I meant Christian, as in Western Europe/North America specifically
You mean the christian countries that are suddenly not christian anymore whenever you have to bash atheism for "mass importing muslims"?

>>7990562
I wouldn't know, since your post doesn't contain any.

>>7990614
If a candidate ``needs" the conservative Christian vote, he's not on our side.

>>7990629
>conversion therapy is okay as long as it doesn't involve EST!

>>7990793
Those aren't Muslim countries though.

>>7990775
China is also a secular country for example, so no. It's secular countries of Christian tradition that allow gay marriage.

>>7990833
>United States
>not Christian

>>7990836
No shit nigger. In muslim countries it's outright illegal / punishable by death.

>>7990775
The UK has bishops as congressmen.

>>7990837
>>7990845
>>7990849
>muh christian countries
I'd take that seriously, if you wouldn't immediately 180 when it comes to immigration.
"hurr christian countries have gay marriage"
"durr these countries are atheists because they're mass importing muslims".

That's fucking retarded and you know it.
Pick a fucking side and stick with it.

Why are gay and transgender liberals so smug?

>>7990884
What the hell are you talking about? Any country can be retarded enough to import muslims.

>>7990884
>strawman of the week

Countries where being gay is punishable by death:

Sudan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Mauritania, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Qatar , United Arab Emirates, Nigeria, Somalia, Syria and Iraq.

>religion_of_peace.jpg

>>7990775
Kuwait is secular and it still has harsh anti lgbt laws

>>7990884
Well I never said that, so you better take that seriously. I'm an atheist, but it's inarguable that the countries that allow it have a majority Christian tradition, even if they're secular. So even in countries that in many cases still are majority Christian, LGBT rights exist. Guess what doesn't exist in majority muslim countries?

>>7990899
You know very well what I'm talking about.
You're just confused because I decided to refute the fucking point before it was made.
>>7990921
>strawman
>even though it's literally /pol/ arguing, like what you are doing

>>7990935
"secular".

>>7990925
Being gay in Syria is punishable by death because of the Christian minority there. When the FSA removes Comrade Assad (get it? he is a Russian puppet, lol!) that law is going bye-bye.

>>7983548
Just stop

>>7990951
>muh paul strawman

>>7990951
No I do not have any idea what you're talking about and "I'm refuting your point before you said it" is a marginally more retarded version of "I'm only pretending to be retarded"

>>7990957
What's wrong about being a Russian puppet

>>7990793
India is overwhelmingly religious even if the government is nominally secular, and many parts of the country are allowed to impose their own religious laws.

Taiwan has the most progressive LGBT rights in East Asia and legalization of same sex marriage has been proposed many times and is probably only a decade at most from actually passing.

Japan is a little bit behind but very close as well, most of the population is pro-LGBT, some parts have anti-discrimination laws, and openly LGBT people have served political offices.

South Korea has nationwide protection from LGBT discrimination.

Singapore and China are both extremely authoritarian countries, and authoritarian countries tend not to be support of any deviation from social norms even if they are mostly secular.

>>7990994
So the most progressive LGBT country in East Asia has gotten to the "proposed" stage, and might be a decade away from recognizing marriage. Point made.

>>7990951
Kuwait has a secular government. Kuwait recognizes seperation of church and state, Kuwait has freedom of religion, Kuwait has no Sharia courts. Family law is based on Sharia, but only applicable to Muslims and was democratically instated. Non-Muslims are instead beholden to secular Family law.

>>7991035
Which is fine by me, Muslims can have Sharia Law if they want it for themselves. Just not for me.

>>7990982
>No I do not have any idea what you're talking about
You have never seen a /pol/ack claiming that Europe is still christian, only to immediately claim it's atheist whenever mentions mass immigration?
Just ask them if Europe is christian, and then ask them why only christianity can save the west.
It's the second most common case of double think there, aside from the whole holocaust thing.

>>7991035
>Family law is based on Sharia, but only applicable to Muslims and was democratically instated.
Yes I'm sure every kid indoctrinated in a Muslim household and every binbag-wearing woman chooses to live under Shariah with no coercion whatsoever.

>>7990994
Thanks for confirming the post you're replying to

>>7991072
No I haven't, probably because I don't go to /pol/ and don't care about what they have boners for.

>>7991023
Sure, but there's a lot more to LGBT rights than just same sex marriage. Take South Africa for instance. Legally they're protected but homophobia and anti-lgbt violence is rampant.
The US has legal same sex marriage, but gay adoption is still a hot button issue and LGBT people generally don't enjoy the same anti-discrimination rights as other groups. There are even still states where it is illegal to change the sex on your birth certificate.

Contrast with South Korea, which has no gay marriage, but does have anti discrimination laws and trans people are allowed to change their documentation.

Deciding that gay marriage = LGBT rights are acceptable is arbitrary and unfounded.

>>7991072
>implying that even if a country isn't officially Christian anymore its values don't stem from its Judeochristian history

This is Anthropology 101 stuff, guys.

>>7991089
You cannot argue a country is christian only when it suits your argument.

>>7991075
The point was that it doesn't matter what kind of government is in power. As long as there's a Muslim majority anti lgbt laws follow

>>7991086
Well, I agree, but South Africa is mostly rampant with crime and a lot of other issues. The stance of a GOVERNMENT concerning recognizing homosexual unions says a lot about its stance. I agree that anti discrimination laws are fundamentally better quality of life than marriage laws, but how the State perceives LGBT folks is a very fundamental point. It's just an issue of what's first, egg or chicken, i.e. what should come first, popular recognition of LGBT rights, or state recognition. Best case scenario it's a mutual agreement on both parts, but I'd still prefer to have marriage in a country full of homophobes, at least I can get married and then get the fuck out of there if I want to.

>>7991103
And I'm not, but it's undeniable that modern Western secular countries still were built on judeochristian cultural principles. Hell, western ideas are based on Judeochristian principles even if you're an atheist. If you deny that, you're denying reality, or show no understanding of how culture works.

>>7991106
Oh then I agree. Something like 50% of UK muslims think being gay should be illegal.

>>7991075
It's really no different than in the West, where parents are still almost completely free to indoctrinate their children with harmful ideas.

>>7991118
The reason I used Kuwait is that it's as close to a western style secular democracy as you'll get in the Middle East. And they exercised their democratic rights to put in place anti lgbt laws

>>7991174
It is because the West doesn't have "christian family law" applied to Christian families. They still are subjects to the same laws as the rest of us, otherwise no Christian family could file for divorce.

>>7991117
That's understating how both western principles as well as these judeochristian principles themselves are a whole collection of other culture's principles, or are otherwise constructed out of them.

>>7991215
In the case of the US, maybe, but European tradition is largely Christian in background, even when it comes to societies like the French, with their early revolutions and their state secularism. The mechanisms and structures of Western States were built on Christian groundwork. What this means is that even when culturally very different, many nations find a common understanding or recognize each other as "relatives". The other cultures added to it, certainly, and made some very important contributions, but at their core there's still a Christian tradition and history. In the same way, that's what happens in Muslim countries. Islam is an Abrahamic religion as much as judaism and christianity, but the culture they built went in a direction that makes it feel like "the other" to the West. At that point you can talk about different cultural traditions. It's not even about religion, despite the name, it's just how that religion permeated aspects of the culture that defined its direction, even if it's now secular. Languages were built thusly, states, even moral perceptions. Stuff we can't escape even if we're atheists (as I am) because they're just subtle enough for us to not notice unless we try. really hard.

>>7991249
>Stuff we can't escape even if we're atheists
We can't escape history.
However I can look at today, and from that perspective I can say that our modern day western values are not christian, simply because they technically no longer are, just as we are no longer our ancestors.
We can't really call lgbt rights a christian thing either now can we.

>>7991249
>What this means is that even when culturally very different, many nations find a common understanding or recognize each other as "relatives".

Yeah, that couldn't be because of shared history, geography, political movements, etc. It must be because of a religion that has almost no importance in 80% of the west.

Isn't it funny that in the 16th century, when Christianity and Christian values were the most important thing in Europe, you had massive wars of religion between Christians? How about in the 19th century, when Christianity was still very important, yet you had European and American Christains claiming that groups like the Irish, Spanish, or Polish were literally subhumans?

Yet now, in the 21st century, when Europe is the least Christian it's been since Constantine, Europe is also the most peaceful it's ever been. Cultural exhange between the west is at an all time high, and someone whose French feels closer to a Dane or Italian than ever before. Why is that?

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>>7983472
>doesn't want more middle east qts around
>gay

Something doesn't add up here.

Yeah I really feel for the lgbt community. The problem is even if you foster a libertarian society who allows your rights, the libertarian society allows in new immigration that aren't willing to assimilate. The only way to fix it would be constitutional additions to cover LGBT rights.

The best way is for a country that only protects it's own citizens. That focuses on libertarianism within it's borders and conservative outwards to the rest of the world. Ironically I feel like Trump might actually be your guy.

Liberal doesn't equal Libertarian. A lot of the left is just as authoritarian as the right.

>>7992033
I like the sound of this. Libertarianism in one state.

>>7990351
Gay Marriage happened with conservatives controlling 2/3rds of the US government. A Reagan appointed justice was the deciding vote.

>>7986286
>Trans issues are steadily becoming more important in politics now
Mostly an invented dilemma. Nobody cared about trans people using bathrooms until politicians made it an issue. Most people still don't.

Hell, President Trump himself has said that Jenner can use any bathroom she wants if she visited Trump Tower.

Personally, I'm more concerned with people that are American-born becoming pro-ISIS and anti-LGBT than becoming more Right Wing.

>>7991796
>Something doesn't add up here.
It's because you're delusional. There are men from the Middle East that want you dead because they see you as an irredeemable abomination that can't be saved.

The ISIS ideology needs to be stamped out.

>>7992150
There are other things. Most states still have no anti-discrimination laws for LGBT. Some states still don't allow you to change the gender on your birth certificate, or they require SRS first.

LGBT equality is far from over in the US just because gays can marry.

>>7992165
I really don't know anything about politics tbph.

I've hooked up with Arab and Persian guys before though. Why do you only focus on the bad ones?

>>7992318
> implying second generation westernized Arabs will give you problems
Kek

>>7992208
>LGBT "equality"
>special laws to privilege just us

>>7992475
Anti discrimination laws exist for just about every other minority in the US. They are not to privilege "just us", unless you think having the right to not be denied housing or employment because of who you are is a privilege. If that's the case then you think almost everyone else is privileged compared to LGBT people. So why would you not want to alleviate that?

>>7992488
>So why would you not want to alleviate that?
But I do?

>>7990379
>Old Testament
Are you really blaming the Jewish people for the existence of homophobia?
>>>/pol/

>>7992488
You would like to forcibly work for a homophobe?

>>7990351
That is in no way related to what i said, and there is no reason why you should be given special rights you fucking entitled snowflake.
It is because of inssuferable faggots like you that so many people think all gays are like that.

>>7993019
There is no ``forcibly work", because we're free to quit our job at any time. But I don't see why discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is something worthy of being defended.

>>7993350
All LGBT people are asking for is equal rights. And no, not meme equal rights like ``but you can have a straight marriage and live as your birth sex like everyone else", but ACTUAL equal rights. When conservatives demonstrate a willingness to fight for those kinds of rights, then they can call themselves pro-LGBT.

>>7991086
>LGBT people generally don't enjoy the same anti-discrimination rights as other groups
When was the last time you were discriminated against?

>Deciding that gay marriage = LGBT rights are acceptable is arbitrary and unfounded.
No, it's actually just about the perfect bellwether for a nation's opinions on homosexuality considering the vast societal importance marriage has in every culture.

8ballAnon says... Make the right choice and vote no sexual harrassment towards goats

>>7993510
what "rights" though? the right to force people to bake you a cake? the right to adopt children? there are completely reasonable arguments against those things, it's not like they're trying to burn your house down and run you out of town like muslims would

>>7993543
>the vast societal importance marriage has in every culture
you're making the argument for resisting change to it

>>7993655
>the right to force people to bake you a cake?
Again, it's not forcing, they're free to leave the cake business at any time. But so long as they sell cakes for profit, they must abide by anti-discrimination laws.

>the right to adopt children?
Why wouldn't this be a right?

>it's not like they're trying to burn your house down and run you out of town like muslims would
Again, that's my problem with the right. If the BEST they can say is "we're not going to kill you", that's not enough to get my vote, when there are other parties who ARE willing to support equal rights.

>>7993670
>it's not forcing, we'll just shut your business down if you don't serve these people who could literally walk across the street and get the same service
okay, it's coercing. That's not far off and is still wrong. Nobody owes you their labor in a free country, stop acting like an entitled brat

>Why wouldn't this be a right?
Why SHOULD it be? We do not know beyond a reasonable doubt that gay couples are equally or more capable than straight couples at raising children, don't act like this is just a given

>Again, that's my problem with the right... there are other parties who are willing to support equal rights
who, as has been said already and is the topic of the thread, are also supporting ideologies that want to see you killed. But yeah I guess getting those asshole Christians to cater your wedding is a lot more important

>If the BEST they can say is "we're not going to kill you"
What more do you expect from the government than to be left alone? It is not the government's job to do anything but secure your life and inherent human rights, it is not their job to take care of you

>>7993709
>okay, it's coercing. That's not far off and is still wrong. Nobody owes you their labor in a free country, stop acting like an entitled brat
They've already agreed to do the labor by entering into the business. There's no coherent argument that the labor somehow retroactively becomes "harder" because they sell it to a gay person. It has nothing to do with labor, they're just being ridiculous and virtue signalling for no reason.

>Why SHOULD it be? We do not know beyond a reasonable doubt that gay couples are equally or more capable than straight couples at raising children, don't act like this is just a given
We assume everyone is a competent parent until proven otherwise. Unless you think every couple must pass a test before being allowed to raise children?

>who, as has been said already and is the topic of the thread, are also supporting ideologies that want to see you killed. But yeah I guess getting those asshole Christians to cater your wedding is a lot more important
The left is not "supporting" the violent homophobia in Islam in any meaningful way. However, Western right wing parties HAVE supported "kill-the-gays" laws in African countries, AND even as recently as 2016 have involved themselves with cults that mock the deaths of the Pulse shooting victims.

>What more do you expect from the government than to be left alone? It is not the government's job to do anything but secure your life and inherent human rights, it is not their job to take care of you
Then what do you think we pay taxes for? There is no inherent, divine law on "what the government's job is", it's a social contract between the government and the people, if the people don't like it they express it by leaving, engaging in non-violent protest, or voting for candidates who support changing the role of the government. And personally, I'm perfectly willing to accept a high tax rate in exchange for a government that actually puts serious effort into taking care of its citizens.

>>7993543
>When was the last time you were discriminated against?

Never, but I am a trans (mtf) person who always goes outside as a guy, so I've never had an opportunity to be. I was bullied a lot for being "gay" as a kid even though I was pretty much just asexual prior to hrt.

Regardless, if you seriously think there's no such thing as LGBT discrimination in the US you're out of your mind. Why do you think there's even arguments about trans bathroom rights or whether anti-discrimination laws should even exist in the states that have them, because some people believe their freedom of religion should trump that despite such reasoning not being valid for discrimination against blacks, women, other religions, etc.

>No, it's actually just about the perfect bellwether for a nation's opinions on homosexuality considering the vast societal importance marriage has in every culture.

You're forgetting the T. Homosexual acceptance doesn't always come with trans acceptance or vice versa. Iran is pretty accepting of trans people (compared to other authoritarian muslim countries) yet rabidly opposes gays, while most other states are more accepting of homosexuality than they are of trans people. In theory, would you say that a country where gay marriage is legal and totally accepted but transition is completely outlawed has good LGBT rights? What about the inverse?


And I don't see why a gay person should feel accepted just because marriage is legal, marriage being something that many gays don't even care for, while they still don't get to experience the same anti-discrimination laws that nearly every other minority group enjoys. Don't forget that gay marriage became legal because of a supreme court ruling, not because of popular vote. It doesn't mean the majority of people actually support it, too.

The fact that the LGBT rights movement has toppled one hurdle of religious and cultural bigotry does not mean other ones have been.

>>7993740
>We assume everyone is a competent parent until proven otherwise.
Adoption should actually work the opposite way (including for straight people)

Just saying... I think gay people deserve a shot at adoption but there must be standards

>>7993758
Should the same be applied to heterosexual couples raising their own children?

>>7993709
So then why does a bakery not have the right to refuse someone service for their gender, religion, race, etc? Why is it okay to refuse service for LGBT but not those groups?

>Why SHOULD it be? We do not know beyond a reasonable doubt that gay couples are equally or more capable than straight couples at raising children, don't act like this is just a given

Are black couples proven to be just as capable at raising children as whites? How about Muslim, Hindu, or atheist couples compared to Christian? No? Then why are they all allowed to adopt children?

>who, as has been said already and is the topic of the thread, are also supporting ideologies that want to see you killed. But yeah I guess getting those asshole Christians to cater your wedding is a lot more important
Yes, because a liberal party getting into power means that within a decade sharia law will reign supreme over the land and all LGBT people should be killed on sight, despite the fact that my country is currently less than 1% Muslim. Quit the fearmongering. My chance of being killed by a muslim would be low even if the muslim population grew to 10x its current size and every single one of them was an extreme radical.

>What more do you expect from the government than to be left alone? It is not the government's job to do anything but secure your life and inherent human rights, it is not their job to take care of you
And is being free from discrimination in areas like employment, housing, or service not a human right when nearly every other group in the country gets them? How about the right to change my sex on my birth certificate or other state IDs?

>>7993767
No... people have a right to raise their own offspring, so long as they don't abuse or neglect the child.

Adopting a child actually requires you to prove you are a responsible person who can provide the necessities and such.

>>7993795
So what's the difference between the two situations? Is there any circumstance/criteria that would disqualify someone from adopting, but wouldn't disqualify someone from raising their own biological children?

>>7993795
Well straight organisms aren't people, so I don't see any conflict there.

>>7993802
>Is there any circumstance/criteria that would disqualify someone from adopting, but wouldn't disqualify someone from raising their own biological children?
Short answer: yes.

Do your own homework on adoption standards if you're interested.

>>7993740
>They've already agreed to do the labor by entering into the business
False, going into business does not mean they've agreed to do any labor you ask of them. They can refuse business for any reason except for the sacred "no-nos" lined out by the government
>There's no coherent argument that the labor somehow retroactively becomes "harder" because they sell it to a gay person. It has nothing to do with labor, they're just being ridiculous and virtue signalling for no reason.
I don't care what you think is "harder", that is not for you to decide. Scoffing at people does not change the fact that they owe you NOTHING.

>We assume everyone is competent until proven otherwise
Wrong again, you must meet minimum requirements for foster care and adoption. If you're talking about making babies through surrogates or going to a sperm bank, the government is not going to stop you for not being married

>The left is not supporting the violent homophobia in any meaningful way
See Europe
>Western right wing parties have supported bad things on the other side of the world
I don't like that. The left is still worse.

>>7993814
>They can refuse business for any reason except for the sacred "no-nos" lined out by the government
The question is, why should racist discrimination be a "no-no" and not homophobic discrimination?

>>7993814
>They can refuse business for any reason except for the sacred "no-nos" lined out by the government
No one is denying that. Of course businesses are currently within their legal right to deny service to LGBT people. The argument is that LGBT should be added to that list of "sacred no-nos" so that it can't happen.

>>7993814
I don't care what you decide is for me to decide or not, you don't get to decide anything and never will.

>>7993740
>Then what do you think we pay taxes for
To protect the lives and rights of our citizens. Plus a myriad of useless and destructive things they shouldn't be paying for.
>There is no inherent, divine law on "what the government's job is", if the people don't like it they express it by blah blah blah, I'm willing to accept the government taking an exorbitant amount of my income so it can be given to other people (plus a bunch of middle men for "administrative" reasons"
You could also do that voluntarily. Why in the world do you think it's okay to force everyone else to accept that same burden? Is it because the majority rules, like when the majority ruled that gay marriage should be illegal.... or when the majority ruled that black people weren't real people? Why not donate to charity? Never mind the moral arguments, we saw what an absolute fucking DISASTER government taking on the role of "taking care of its citizens" was in the 20th century. Why don't you take your own advice and move to Venezuela if you want to live in a socialist paradise.

>>7993786
>Why does a bakery not have the right to refuse for other reasons?
I don't know, why don't they? All of those things are abhorrent on a social level, and they'd go out of business. It's generally a horrible idea to get government involved to solve problems that people can solve themselves

>Are x better than y, etc etc
I am not personally against gays adopting for the reasons you stated -- there is no gold standard. But it's also not as simple as "everyone is equal, hurr durr". Every couple should be considered on an individual level, as they already are, and if the data suggests gays are worse in some areas, points should be taken off. Men and women are far more different than blacks and whites so I don't think that's a fair comparison

>liberals = sharia in 10 years
I don't believe that and never suggested I did, I'm not going to defend a position you assigned to me

>>7993814
>False, going into business does not mean they've agreed to do any labor you ask of them. They can refuse business for any reason except for the sacred "no-nos" lined out by the government
But the labor is already done. By selling something through retail you're making a contract with the public. You can't just say certain members of the public are excluded from the contract, UNLESS you explicitly state so as part of the contract. You're free to terminate the contract at any time, but you must terminate the entire contract, or announce the new terms. You can't just pick and choose who can buy your stuff, when you've already agreed to sell it to the public.

>I don't care what you think is "harder", that is not for you to decide. Scoffing at people does not change the fact that they owe you NOTHING.
It has nothing to do with "owing". I'm just saying the labor argument is ridiculous because they aren't actually DOING ANY EXTRA LABOR. No one's MAKING them do labor, they're willingly doing it, and claiming it's somehow a burden for them to sell the products of their labor to certain people at the agreed-upon price.

>Wrong again, you must meet minimum requirements for foster care and adoption. If you're talking about making babies through surrogates or going to a sperm bank, the government is not going to stop you for not being married
So then being gay or straight should not be part of those minimum requirements. It should be about things that ACTUALLY have to do with your ability to raise children.

>See Europe
Yes, and?

>I don't like that. The left is still worse.
So saying Muslims deserve equal rights is "worse" than actually supporting the murder of gays?

>>7993835
>You could also do that voluntarily. Why in the world do you think it's okay to force everyone else to accept that same burden?
Because it leads to the greater good.

>Why don't you take your own advice and move to Venezuela if you want to live in a socialist paradise.
Because Venezuela is a FAILED example of socialism. Expecting a socialist to like it is like assuming someone who "likes computers" would appreciate having their face bashed in with a laptop.

>>7983472
Make the democrats do their god damn job

>>7993835
>I don't believe that and never suggested I did, I'm not going to defend a position you assigned to me

So then why is voting for a liberal party that is more likely to give me equal rights in the short term bad because of the slight possibility I might have to endure greater inequality in the severe long term? What's stopping me from electing liberals until I have equal rights and then voting for conservatives?

>>7993849
Because unless the conservatives undergo reform in that time (which they very well might, if they see that their outdated platform is costing them votes), they may just try to reverse all the liberals' changes once they are in charge of the government.

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>>7993847
>the greater good
Tau detected

>>7993836
>contracts, blah blah
I'm aware of how government and laws work. I was under the impression that this was a conversation about how things SHOULD BE, not how they are. I'm generally aware of how things already are.

>Nobody is making them do anything
If you want to be autistically technical, yes, nobody is standing behind them and moving their arms in cake-baking motions. It's been made illegal to NOT provide their labor. They are being coerced. That is wrong.

>So then being gay or straight should not be part of those minimum requirements. It should be about things that ACTUALLY have to do with your ability to raise children.
I agree with you, but in the absence of data it is not evil and oppressive for the other side to err on the side of caution and stick to tradition. That is a perfectly reasonable position to take

>Yes, and?
The left is supporting violent homophobia in a meaningful way in Europe

>Saying muslims deserve equal rights
I never disagreed with this and I don't know what you're going on about

>>7993847
>Because it leads to the greater good
See: Soviet Union, Communist China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Nazi Germany, etc

>X was a failed implementation of oppressive ideology Y, it wouldn't have failed if I was in charge!
Said every dictator in history

>>7993849
now is the time
make the switch

>>7993872
>I was under the impression that this was a conversation about how things SHOULD BE, not how they are.
And that's what I'm describing as well.

>It's been made illegal to NOT provide their labor. They are being coerced. That is wrong.
I disagree. They willingly chose, without coercion, to bake the cake. The only "coercion" is with regards to who they sell it to, and the act of sale involves a negligible amount of actual labor. Let me ask you this: if a baker is refusing to sell a cake to gays, would you be okay with gays giving the money to a straight person, to buy the cake, and then give it to them? Because that is just as much circumventing the will of the baker, insofar as the source of the payment and the final consumer.

>The left is supporting violent homophobia in a meaningful way in Europe
You have yet to demonstrate that.

>Said every dictator in history
I'm not in favor of a dictatorship.

>>7993857
Conservatives have made no attempt to repeal gay marriage in the US despite having control of congress and the President.

>>7993902
But I still don't enjoy anti-discrimination laws and I still can't change the sex on my birth certificate in my state. Why should I change just because gays can marry now?

>>7993911
>having control of congress and the President
They've only been in office for three months, and have been busy with other things. All we really know right now is that they don't consider repealing gay marriage a high priority. Furthermore, wouldn't repealing it be more dependent on the supreme court than on congress?

>>7993903
When people cater a wedding they don't necessarily just sell cakes they've already made, but that's beside the point. They don't want to do it because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. How much effort is required of them doesn't matter, they don't owe you anything to begin with

>You have yet to demonstrate that
I don't know if you're playing stupid or if you're genuinely unaware of the mass muslim immigration happening in Europe right now. That's how they're supporting it.

>I'm not in favor of a dictatorship
cool. you're in favor of something that is nearly as bad.

>>7993914
You can't change your sex so I don't know why you should be able to change it on your birth certificate. I'm sorry about reality, but it is what it is

>>7993936
>When people cater a wedding they don't necessarily just sell cakes they've already made, but that's beside the point. They don't want to do it because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. How much effort is required of them doesn't matter, they don't owe you anything to begin with
Well, if it really conflicts with their religious beliefs, is it just that they don't want to do it themselves, would they object to someone else serving as a middleman?

>I don't know if you're playing stupid or if you're genuinely unaware of the mass muslim immigration happening in Europe right now. That's how they're supporting it.
So supporting Muslim immigration is the same as saying it's okay and good when Muslims kill gays?

>>7993920
Technically only the supreme court can *repeal* a supreme court decision, so my wording was off, but congress can pass an amendment making gay marriage illegal which the supreme court cannot overturn.

>>7993940
Birth certificate is about legal reality, not biological reality. If one is in all other ways recognized as a female, why should their birth certificate still have to say male?

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>>7993847
>greater good

>>7993945
>Well, if it really conflicts with their religious beliefs, is it just that they don't want to do it themselves, would they object to someone else serving as a middleman?
I have no idea, you'd have to ask them

>So supporting Muslim immigration is the same as saying it's okay and good when Muslims kill gays?
wut. Of course it's not, you don't have to say it's okay and good to kill gays to support an anti-gay ideology. Why does it have to go that far for this to be against our interests? Disturbingly high portions of muslims in Europe hold inherently anti-western beliefs, particularly regarding women and gays. Jump to page 596 for a quick tidbit. I'm sorry but I don't want this happening to my country. The plight of these people is very sad but unless you can weed out the majority of them that hold these kinds of beliefs, it's not worth the risk.
https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf

>>7993952
>>7993940
Not to mention that changing a birth certificate is needed for getting other ID like your driver's license or social security information changed. Trannies don't just want to change their legal sex for vanity reasons, having your driver's license or social security updated is important for preventing confusion and avoiding discrimination.

>>7993936
>When people cater a wedding they don't necessarily just sell cakes they've already made, but that's beside the point. They don't want to do it because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. How much effort is required of them doesn't matter, they don't owe you anything to begin with

So why aren't they allowed to deny someone service for their race, gender, or religion if it conflicts with their own beliefs? Why only LGBT?

>>7993983
>I have no idea, you'd have to ask them
Well you seem to think it's coercion. Is it also coercion for me, a straight person, to buy something, using a gay person's money, and then give that thing I buy to that gay person? I'm just acting as a middleman, the end result is the same - the homophobic store owner is paid with a gay person's money, and the gay person ends up with their goods. Am I not depriving the store owner of choice by doing this?

>>7993995
>So why aren't they allowed to deny someone service for their race, gender, or religion if it conflicts with their own beliefs? Why only LGBT?
I don't have a problem with that at all. People don't like racists, they'll go somewhere else. If a state wanted to require people to post a sign on their window saying who they'll refuse to serve, that would be a much more ethical solution than compelling them to work

>>7993995
This is why you don't argue with the conservatives. They WANT to exclude any minority race, women, and religions other than Christianity from being able to do anything they want. Pointing out that you can't do that to them just makes the conservatives cry a little more.

>>7994015
you'd be tricking them but I think you're misrepresenting what the whole "cake" issue was about. People don't want to cater the weddings because it's participation in a ceremony they have a religious objection to. It's not about "we hate gays and don't want to do business with them". Selling a gay person a cake doesn't involve having sex with them

I don't care for their reasoning but that's not the point. I don't get to impose my will onto them

>>7994022
Do remember that this stuff applies to a lot more than just bakeries, that's just the most common example. If someone doesn't want to bake you a cake it isn't really a big deal since you can always find someone else. But people refusing to hire or house you because of your sex, gender, religion, or lgbt status can definitely become a big problem.

>>7994049
Well that's ok, because I do. No straight can ever refuse to do what's right just bacause they want to be a worthless little disease. The end.

>>7994022
>I don't have a problem with that
Then you don't know your history. When that kind of discrimination was allowed, it created a lot of problems.

>>7994049
Okay so what if we're not talking about "participation in a ceremony?" I'm talking about if a gay person walks into a bakery and asking to buy something that's already been made.

>>7994054
I agree, for healthcare and groceries, and to a lesser extent housing I believe there is a rationale for anti discrimination laws

>>7994069
What are you referring to? There was a time in history where it was illegal to serve black people in a white establishment and people were fined for doing so, that's what Jim Crow was.

>>7994072
Then I think you'd be far less likely to be discriminated against, but they should still have the right to refuse, and there's plenty of other businesses you can give your money to instead

>>7994094
After the end of enforced segregation but before it became illegal to refuse service to someone based on their racial background, that kind of legal discrimination caused race riots. You can bet bringing it back would do the same.

Gas the Jews

>>7994101
I don't think racism is nearly as bad today as it was back then, "racist" is one of the worst things you can be called these days

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>>7984167
>ayy lmao extreme nationalism from right wingers.
>Just colour me surprised.

>>7993848
underrated comment

>>7993510
You are whinning like the little bitch you are to get special privileges over the rest of the population because you are entitled snowflake. All LGBTs already have equal rights in most parts of the world, well except in the muslim countries that you love so much I guess where they literally throw gays off of buildings.
I hope one day you get your head out of your own ass, see a different reality than your gender's studies or whatever other bullshit college is showing you, and realise how good you really have and how retarded you are.

>>7994655
how good you really have it in your country.
I wish I could send you to live in Saudia Arabia and see how much you would like there to whine and bitch about not having a third bathroom for XIRs in gas stations.

>>7994655
How is asking for the same anti-discrimination rights as almost every other group in the US a "special privilege"? That anon didn't even say anything about muslim countries either.

>>7994667
I guess nobody should try to progress anything ever because it can always be worse than it currently is. What kind of retard logic is that.

>LGBT rights

you mean give you special treatment and punish people who criticize you

If you don't want an special treatment there's literally nothing to be afraid of.

>>7995670
How often do you think you'll have to repeat that for any people with morals to fall for it?

>>7995678
> I want daddy state to punish people who criticize me

have some pride, stop taking the victim role.

>muh lgtb rights

wtf does that even mean? . What is what you want? Special spaces?

>>7995678
>don't support giving me special privileges? you're immoral!

>>7995670
>>7995716
Explain how its a special privilege. Or do you believe it's okay for groups like women, blacks, hispanics, Muslims, Jews, etc to enjoy these "special privileges" but not us? Why?

>>7995739
False dichotomy.

>>7995692
Stop being dog shit, stop making stupid Christian pedo shit up.

>>7995746
No. Explain why it's okay for those minority groups to enjoy the "special privilege' to be able to buy groceries, get a job, or get a house but not our minority group.

>>7995752
you talk like a true tumblrina

>>>/tumblr/

>>7995768
If realizing that every Christian moron that fears hell and is a cuck is a closet pedo autist made me a tumblrina, then I would moderate the whole of the Tumblr website by myself for free.

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>>7995782
I'm not a Christian but I prefer to be around Christians than to be around cultural Marxists.

What about Muslims? I bet you love Muslims like a good tumbrina.

>>7995795
You're a Christian.

>>7993510
>I don't see why discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is something worthy of being defended.
Religious schools have the right to reject employment based on whether you abide by their religion or not
A christian school shouldn't be obliged to hire a gay teacher when it goes against the very purpose of the school

If you have an issue with this, you have an issue with freedom of religion which you're not going to get anywhere with

>>7995959
That's different because such a position literally relies on the religion of the employee. Same reason why places like Hooters are allowed to exclusively hire female servers. The position relies on the sex of the employee.

However, if I'm applying for most jobs, whether it's burger flipper, electrical engineer, or doctor, there's no reason a gay or trans person can't do those jobs just as well as a straight or cis person.

>>7996004
Men who go to Hooters want a female waitress. Why can't cis people want a cis doctor or burger flipper?

You're arbitrarily defending discrimination when it suits you.

>>7995959
Christian schools shouldn't exist. Anyone that dares to try to start a Christian school should have themselves and their entire family skinned alive.

>>7996027
Because the entire purpose of the waitresses at Hooters is to serve as eye candy for the patrons. In the same way the purpose of a teacher at a religious school is to serve as an instructor for its pupils, and as such they must meet the school's standards of piety or whatever.

Burger flippers and doctors are not the same. I can see a slight argument for doctors since someone being comfortable with their GP is pretty important, but not all doctors are GPs anyway. And I'm pretty sure clinics and hospitals don't have the right to refuse to hire a black or Jewish doctor just because some of their patients may not be as comfortable with them.

I can't even think of a single reasonable argument for why the position of burger flipper could rely on the employee's sex, religion, lgbt status, etc.

>>7996043
>If you have an issue with this, you have an issue with freedom of religion which you're not going to get anywhere with

>>7996061
I've beaten the shit out of some Christians. Their freedom of religion didn't protect them from shit.

You're just a disease. There's absolutely no incentive to let you live.

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>>7996084

>>7983548
I don't remember that people who plotted and carried on the “liberation” of the Arab world were mostly right-wing. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, Justin Trudeau, François Hollande, Paolo Gentiloni, Angela Merkel, the military intervention in Libya and Syria, the civil war in Yemen, the Algerian unrest, the breakdown of Egypt, Lybia, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon? The airstrikes? The overthrown leaders and the subsequent waves of Islamic victories in elections, the terrorists attacks, the funding of rebels?

>>7995765
>get a job
Ok, so you want people to hire you just because you suck dicks and not because you are the most fit for the job? Literally asking for special priviliges for being gay.
Why the fuck should you even tell your employer about your sexuality, you degenerate piece of shit.

I am actually considering that the muslims maybe have it right, because we should throw people like you off of buildings.

>>7996679
No, I want someone to hire me for the job because I am the most qualified, not to hire someone else who is less qualified because he doesn't suck dicks.

Anti-discrimination laws are not the same thing as race, gender, sexuality etc quotas. They shouldn't have to hire me just because I'm a tranny, they should give me an equal shot at being hired despite being a tranny.

>>7996713
What if you're inherently less qualified?

>>7996765
Then I'm inherently less qualified. What's your point?

>>7996772
I meant, what if you're less qualified because you're a transsexual?

>>7996679
>>7996765
No one worth talking to will ever respond seriously to you with this kind of obnoxiously low quality bait, tripfags.

>>7996114
This is the kind of posting people are actually interested in.

>>7996790
I am the same person who wrote them. Also, this isn't a “bait” (?) but a serious question. How would you handle a situation where being transsexual directly disqualifies you? Working within a Christian organization? Being in assets management and having to travel to Middle East? Acting as a counsellor with migrants/a less receptive population?

>>7996780
If i'm applying for a job where that may be an issue, like a stripper or something, then fair enough. If I'm applying to make coffee at Starbuck's, why should it matter?

>>7996829
>I am the same person who wrote them
You don't have to point this out, you're a tripfag, everyone can see it...

>Also, this isn't a “bait” (?) but a serious question
Then you're missing the point of workplace discrimination law. It's not about sending transsexuals to counsel Salafist Muslims or white guys to counsel black kids in the Harlem projects, because that doesn't work. It is about hiring people based on merits instead of prejudice. In 99.99% of cases, being LGBT is not relevant to your ability to perform a job.

>>7996829
Why would you actively look for positions in which being trans disqualifies you as a trans person? You'd be instantly be lowering the quality of your work by no fault of your own, and all in all lowering the satisfaction of users of the service.

>>7996870
I've been taking extreme cases, but the point is that it may disturb clients, thus directly affecting your qualification. Provided your transsexualism is an issue to the clientele of Starbuck, you're then less qualified. How is such a bill supposed to handle these cases? Being LGBT is likely to be an issue in any client-facing position.

>>7996884
I don't, but people will eventually. Speaking of an example, a transsexual coworker I had was fired half a year ago, because clients were embarrassed. I speak about regular, White continental clients. What to do? How to balance the wish to integrate LGBT people and the primordial need to conduct business?

>>7996904
If I pass, then how would the clients even know?

>>7996904
>Being LGBT is likely to be an issue in any client-facing position.
wrong

>>7996911
Good for you, but you wouldn't need an anti-discrimination legislation, then. Anyway, then the “hon” shouldn't apply? How would it work?

>>7996917
Elaboration?

>>7996904
>a transsexual coworker I had was fired half a year ago, because clients were embarrassed.

It's up to the business in particular to decide their philosophy. If it keeps them from their clients to hire transsexual people, sadly they're going to hire the people that allow them to do business. If the issue is important to them as a company, they might fight to look for trans-accepting clients, but you'd have to be a very rich business, and one with a very important social compromise. Businesses don't HAVE to integrate LGBT people. All they have to do is make it so that they have the same chance at doing the same job with the same qualifications. Your friend was given that chance, but sadly they didn't work out, sadly through no fault of their own. It's rough, but imho 'tis life. No clients = no business.

>>7996911
>the eternal hon curse
If they pass they wouldn't even have to tell the employer about being trans. Since they are honnie-hons they have a walking "trannie" billboard on their forehead. Like the other guy said, every position in which you have to deal with clients could be problematic, because what if you have clients dislike the person for being trans and you lose them to the competition who hired a qt teenager girl with big eyes and a sparkling smile rather than a deep voice, big hands, and a bulge protruding from those yoga pants. This particular case is unfair, not due to trannie discrimination, but due to the reality of the business not wanting to lose some clients.

>>7996923
>Good for you, but you wouldn't need an anti-discrimination legislation, then. Anyway, then the “hon” shouldn't apply? How would it work?

If I don't have my identification changed, then my employers could still know i'm trans through social security and my ID

>>7996942
What's unfair is you worthless pedophiles talking as if you have a right to instead of offing yourselves. :)

>>7996829
companies should be free to discriminate as they see fit.
t. mtf

>>7983548
Fuck off leftist. Point me to the conservatives shooting up nightclubs and driving trucks into crowds of people

>>7996942
>what if you have clients dislike the person for being trans

business is about business.
you don't make business decisions based on the appearance of the people who work at the business.
if you did, you would quickly go out of business.

>>7997056
That's why they hire those hot girls at car shows, didn't you know? There's a whole guild of supermodel car experts.

Business is about clients buying from those they deem give them the service they want. If people are uncomfortable doing business with a trans person, and stop buying, then there's no business. You can't drag your client by the ear and force them to buy. The client has a total right to discriminate.

>>7997056
>you don't make business decisions based on the appearance of the people who work at the business
Uh? Yes, you do. If you don't, these cute twenties females with blue eyes would need more than half a week to get a job. Take a look at junior staff in any major bank or business services. How many overweight people? How many transsexuals?

>>7997071
Is this the new meme that real people are supposed to fall for?

>>7996923
>Elaboration?
How about all the flamboyant fags doing excellently in sales, dumbass?

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>>7997071
>those hot girls at car shows

Booth Babes Don’t Work
https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/13/booth-babes-dont-convert/

>>7997090
The question is, in selling what…

>>7997096
Did it ever occur to you that techcrunch writer might be dumb as shit?

Everyone knows that sex sells. Don't be an idiot.

>>7997108
New memes?

>>7997108
Everything from cars to water filters, tripfag. Fags tend to have more emotional intelligence to help them pace a customer.

>>7997132
Sources?

>>7997136
Ur mother's cunt?

>>7997136
Is that a joke? Who do you imagine I would source for this?

>>7997141
>>7997144
I take it it's wrong, then. It's easy to come up with statements out of nowhere.

>>7997147
I'm telling you my perspective as a fag who has worked extensively in sales. If you only believe things that are written down on some boring website, why bother coming here? Go read articles instead of talking to Anonymous. No one will miss having one more fucking tripfag if you leave.

>>7997147
Yeah. Similar to how you're pretending it's ok for you to be living dog shit.

>>7997153
Now you justify with an anecdote. Go on, you're almost done with the list of fallacies.

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>>7997118
Yeah, I bought a piece of shit computer because the guy at the register was cute.
No, you buy it because it is the right price point and it meets the specifications that you're looking for.
If you're buying shit with your dick then you're fucked.
Or 14

>>7997096
>booth babes don't work in X industry, therefore, they don't work
>article talks about booth babes as salespeople (which they are not) and not a publicity stunt (which is what they are)

Still doesn't invalidate that if someone doesn't feel comfortable with a trans person, they're less likely to buy from them.

>>7997161
Where's the part where you address the fact it's fallicious for you to post while being dog shit?

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>>7997161
Do memes count as fallacies?

>>7997161
>fallacies
You seem to misunderstand. This is not a formal debate. I never had any intention of citing sources for you, because I'm not doing a school project, you chucklefuck.

>>7997179
Good for you, if it were you would be wrong.

>>7997171
You're not thinking like a marketer. If you can't understand how sex appeal draws in the attention that gets you more potential customers, then you clearly don't sell things.

>>7997178
Fallacies in this context are lies used in formal debates. Memes are lies used in informal conversations. Completely different.

>>7997171
My uncle has a machinery factory. His engineers are the ones to travel worldwide to pitch the product. He has more female engineers than male. Still the females will sell less because clients in many countries don't like doing business with women. In some cases he's had to send some of the actual workers with the female engineer to have a male presence and have him act as an engineer as the woman explains. He literally can't hire more female reps because they hurt his sales in face to face.

Real world's tough and unfair anon, sorry to tell you.

>>7997188
No, trust me, you're wrong. If you had any experience in sales we wouldn't be having this conversation.

>>7997188
In any civilized country letting a retard like you even participate in a formal debate isn't allowed, so you'd be wrong just for existing, lol

>>7997193
>>7997194
If it wasn't clear enough you're both ignorant with no knowledge nor experience on the subject, now it's settled! Truth won.

>>7997203
But I don't believe the lies of dog shit, so I don't believe you, Jesus Christ. :)

>>7997203
kek you are so obviously BTFO qq moar tripfag garbage

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>>7997189
>hurr, i just paste a big cock on the box and then everyone buys it!

Name one product that uses sex to sell it.
And don't say cars in the '60s.
That was 50 years ago and baby boomers were brain-dead and drugged out of their minds.

Show a pic of an ad that uses sex, other than for something where the product IS sex like porn or penis pills.

>>7997224
It's worth the curiosity how your already poor syntax and orthography degrade as your total ignorance is exposed! You're embarrassing yourself. Keep quiet, I'm sure you will win virtual battles tomorrow.

>>7997238
You're the only one who cares about winning, tripfag

That's why you are a stupid tripfag and I am Anonymous, you put your name on this and see it as a formal debate, while I just laugh at you for being so stupid

You should really get off 4chan it doesn't seem like your kind of place, maybe ninegag would be more your speed

>>7997229
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/acp.3095/abstract

>>7997229
Almost every product you can imagine uses sex appeal in marketing. Have you never seen advertisements before?

>>7997229
I know you were born 1998, but have you never seen a suggestive TV ad?

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>>7997238
>orthography
>trying this hard to sound intelligent

that's the dumbest word ever

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>>7997269
>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/acp.3095/abstract

I find it interesting that they used an illustration of a brain to sell that article.
From what you've said they should have used a different body part!

>>7997334
I'm not seeing where they're linking "remembering" the sexual content with actually purchasing the accompanying merchandise.

I remember that Trump exists. It doesn't mean I'm buying any of his stupid bullshit.

>>7997374
Well, because the experiment isn't measuring the purchase, it's measuring the staying power of the ad, and in many cases it's what advertisers want in a campaign if they want to introduce a product or make it stand out from others. It's like say, that disgusting AXE commercial. If you're a smelly 16 year old and don't even know how to use deodorant less so which one to buy, you're probably going to try the one that stuck out to you the most. Also we're hard-wired to respond at a basic level and be more attentive and receptive when there's a suggestive image, marketers want you to be receptive to their pitch. Granted, if you're buying a very specific, technical product, chances are you're going to go by the specs if it's not a negotiation, but in cheap stuff it does have selling power.

>>7997405
(What I mean to say with the part about negotiation, is that the personal interaction in negotiations does matter a lot, that's why they don't send just anyone who knows their product to sell it in important agreements for the most part).

>>7997405
I've read different studies that show that people buy what they're interested in buying to suit their needs and appetites, based on how effective the product will be to that end, and ignore the ads for the products if they don't need them.

Unless the the ads can convincely make the case that their products will get you maaaad pussay, it's not gonna work to put a bunch of beef curtains on the packaging of your product.

Consumers are the dumbest people in existence, with the possible exception of all CEOs.

>>7997492
That's what I mean, but what that's telling you is that if you know what you want to buy, an ad isn't going to sell you something different. Then again, if you're not that kind of person you're not the target of an ad campaign. You're targeting the people who aren't specialized. That, or if it's an affordable product, it'll give the image of higher quality, because it generally will be if the business has disposable money for an ad campaign and aren't selling you the product based on it being the cheapest.

>>7997518
If you're that kind of person* I mean.

>>7997518
And yet none of what you just said applies to what I said in any way. I was telling you what the studies I read said about reality.

If you wish to try to convince me that CEOs believe that sex sells, don't bother, I already know that they're misogynistic brain dead morons who really just want to get in their booth babe's pussies. If on the other hand you want to convince me that having a hot naked 18 year old girl riding a giant tube of Colgate(TM) toothpaste is going to sell more of that toothpaste, don't bother, I've already read studies that show that it will not.

>>7997178
>tfw can't tell which character the artist wants me to side with

>>7998023
Neither actually.

>>7997010
:^)

>>7997056
Are you legitimately telling me that sex doesn't sell and companies don't use attractive people in ads and as salespersons for their prodcuts solely because of the sex appeal?
Either you are clinically retarded, or I landed in a different timeline this morning.

>>7994655
>All LGBTs already have equal rights in most parts of the world,
You're joking, right? The majority of the world is third-world shitholes where gays even having the right to fuck their partners is a pipe dream.

>>7995959
Freedom of religion doesn't mean such a thing as a ``christian school" has any right to exist. It just means that you're allowed to practice your religion freely. If the laws for founding schools are that you can't discriminate against gays when hiring, then your religious freedom isn't being infringed.

>>7997055
You do realize that almost the entirety of Islamic terrorism is conservatives? How many of them do you hear quoting Marx or defending women's rights?

stop being a fucking awful person

>>7983472
>waaah these brown people are scary

fuck off, christians are just as bad, or does westbro baptist church not ring any bells??