Hey /lgbt/, tourist here. How do you guys fell about "nonbinary"

I don't believe in it and I think it should not be included under "transgender"

>>7923513
If people want to call themselves nonbinary and they're not obnoxious about it, cool. I don't think it's a valid identity, though.

>>7923513
Not a real thing

Something that cis lesbians call themselves so they can spy on trannies

I can't say much about it. If someone identifies that way, that's fine. Gender is a social concept in the first place. However, everyone I met who identifies that way acted like a girl.

Non binaries are just crying for attention

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>>7923623
>Gender is a social concept

Ah, i knew you were hiding your autists somewhere, /lgbt/.

>>7923630
Gender as a term was made up by a child abuser whose twin victims both suicided from the trauma in adulthood.

>>7923630
Sex is, without a doubt, as much of a physical attribute as any other. But let's take height, for comparison. Tall people are not expected to act any differently except where the physical differences actually matter. Men and women however are expected to lead almost entirely different lives, with the vast majority of the expectations being entirely unrelated to having a vagina or a penis. Again, to compare: we don't center fuckin pronouns on any other physical attribute. If you really don't see gender being a largely societal concept you are just retarded.

>>7923678
You're suggesting gender-oriented behaviour didn't develop naturally in anarchist communes back in tribal days?

When left to their own devices, men and women will exhibit "masculine" and "feminine" behaviours even in isolated communities (yes, those existed before the Internet).

>>7923678
>except where the physical differences actually matter
>Men and women however are expected to lead almost entirely different lives, with the vast majority of the expectations being entirely unrelated to having a vagina or a penis

Are you implying differences in size & strength are completely unrelated to gender? You're retarded if you think sex only determines what genitals you have

>>7923672
huh?

>>7923513
It's a placeholder for trans people who haven't come to terms with their shit, but know that something is up.

>>7923708
Those are related though. Hormone stuff. Physical. The differences that actually matter. I'm not denying those exist. Plenty others don't though.

>>7923724
The only point I'm making is that if you're a dude, feel free to grow out your hair long and dress in pretty dresses. Hell, you might even look good doing it. But no matter how hard you want it to, it won't make your female. Sex is biological fact, and can't be changed with current technology.

>>7923513
Special snowflake made up fairy faggotry to legitimize to daddi y dey r a faggit

>>7923513
They're people who think that there are literal "male" and "female" feelings, and are so dumb as to think that gender roles are inherent so that acting outside of them literally turns you into a girl or a boy.

Nonbinary is a shitty term for it but it's fine because gender doesn't real

>>7923738
And that'd be just fine if gender roles weren't a thing! Heck, I'm sure that without those at least a few trans people would be comfortable with not transitioning. If people wouldn't go out of their way to make me feel uncomfortable and try to make me live my life in a "male" way just cause I'm missing a vagina, I'd be a happier person, really. If people wouldn't care so much about what's in my pants.

>>7923513
I've leant to be okay with people who prefer to not identify with male or female and want the characteristics from both but I don't believe in being gender fluid where it changes day to day. Like the op pic says it just seems to just be a thing girls call themselves when they don't always want to wear a dress.

>>7923916
>If people wouldn't go out of their way to make me feel uncomfortable and try to make me live my life in a "male" way just cause I'm missing a vagina

I'm willing to bet nobody actually cares and you've just got a victim complex

>If people wouldn't care so much about what's in my pants.

Like it or not, what you've got there defines you as a person. Men are different from women. You can pump as many hormones into your body as you want but you cannot change this fact

It's true that gender is a construct. So what can I say? It's their prerogative.

However, it is symptomatic of toxic, fascist identity politics shit that needs to die

>I'm willing to bet nobody actually cares and you've just got a victim complex

You're doing it now. Still say nobody cares?


> Men are different from women.
And I'm a woman. I say so, and that defines me. The penis just dangles there. It's not gonna do much defining.

>>7923992
I already said I don't care if you wear dresses and like to put on makeup. Just know that you're male. You can't be female. You can imitate one as much as you want, you might even be very good at it. But sex is biological fact, and you cannot change it. You're a dude.

>>7924049
sex and gender are literally two different things, look it up

>>7924057
Meh. The differences are vague at best. Besides, I'm talking male and female here, which refer to sex.

I identified as non-binary for awhile while trying to come to terms with other things related to my identity. I never felt "mascu" or "femme", just kind of like a void, and I felt at ease with neutral-pronouns.

However, I think it was because I was unsure of my attraction to women and thought maybe something else was "amiss". Nowadays I present very femininely and feel very happy, I'm also open about my attraction to women.

For all intents and purposes, I supposed I'm a cis-female, but I prefer neutral pronouns. That may solely be because I selfishly want to disassociate with all the bullshit women face, I'll be honest. I'm not sure, it just feels right. Or I just... don't care.

>>7923513
I think it's going to be a phase that'll be over soon.
First of all, if you're a non-binary person, you're not trans, this is quite insulting to trans people when most of them have to pay money for surgeries, hormones etc. Wearing clothes of the opposite gender and not using proper pronouns doesn't make you trans. It makes you a fucking idiot. Nonbinary doesn't exist. There are two genders, a gender for each sex and while sex and gender are different, there's a gender for each sex. There is no 3rd sex, there is no 3rd gender.

>>7924057
Says who faggot.

>>7924114
Look em up

>>7924156
Just because some kikes decided to claim that gender is synonymous with gender identity in some cheap semantic argument doesn't mean anyone else has to follow their redefinition. Next you'll tell me that racism now means power plus whatever just because some weirdos decided for everyone else thats what it means. I love reading scientific journals and seeing sex and gender used interchangeably because it's good to see that not everyone bows down to the freaks. And it makes me giggle when some retard says sex doesn't equal gender and that's a fact. What a joke. If I up and decided to start calling trees flibbyflobbys then that's my right and I could do that. But don't expect anyone el else to jump on board. And yeah words change, but only when the majority decides, not a couple thousand gender studies retards.

>>7923513
>However, sometimes I get off by dressing like a boy.
FTFY OP

>>7923513
Gender doesn't exist.
All that exists is biological sex, and levels of masculinity and femininity.
Biological sex is self explanatory. It is entirely based on the x and y chromosomes. XX = female, XY = male. 99.9% of people fall in these two categories, anyone who doesn't has a mutation in their genes.
Femininity and masculinity are determined by traits generally associated with females and males, respectively. These traits can be behavioral, psychological, or physical.
Femininity/Masculinity are influenced by one's biological sex and the society that they live in. No one knows why some people don't match up with average margins of Femininity/Masculinity in relation to their biological sex, but it happens.
Some people are very masculine, some people are very feminine, and some people are a mix.
If you don't like words that describe these realities, you have hang-ups.

>>7924270
>Deluded trannies boiled "gender is a social construct" down to "gender doesn't exist"

This is like saying language doesn't exist

>>7924270
>Femininity/Masculinity are influenced by one's biological sex and the society that they live in. No one knows why some people don't match up with average margins of Femininity/Masculinity in relation to their biological sex, but it happens.
Physical ones are environmental and phenotypical, behavioral and psychological ones are cultural because those are parts of culture.

>>7924285
>the physical doesn't effect the physiological

I think the whole concept of "gender non-conforming" started out as a noble cause because people are expressing that they're done putting up with social expectations that come with their gender. I agree that social expectations are bullshit and I think it's possible to consider yourself non-conforming without being a Tumblr posting snowflake and just be yourself.

That being said, the nonbianary thing is a meme because there can only be two genders. I don't buy into most social expectations but you will naturally gravitate to one gender or another. It's about the personal identity that you naturally have and it's not a "social construct". You either identify as one gender or the other even if you don't buy into societal expectations.

Think about it. If a third gender existed it would probably be not of this world. I imagine that if there was another gender then it would be made by Martians in an alternate reality or some shit.

>>7924309
Not an argument.

>>7924322
Your post implied that the physical=purely the result of one's envimorent/genetics while the mind=purely the result of one's culture.

In reality, each has an effect on the other.

>>7924340
On a technical level, sure.

>>7923678
Thats because height does t affect your brain, sex does. Men and Women think differently. There is a reason why males commit most crimes. There is a reason women masturbate less.

>>7924278
Not a tranny.
Gender, as we know it currently, is short hand for "I feel like a woman/man", but "woman" and "man" are just simplifications of "mostly feminine" and "mostly masculine".
If you disagree, then explain "gender".
>>7924285
I would argue that one's biological sex effects one's behavior and psychology, because testosterone and estrogen effect the way you think, feel, and act. People who have hormonal problems are more likely to lack these traits, and consider themselves something other than cis.

>>7924360
What behavioral and psychological traits do you think are caused by non-societal factors?

>>7924360
Who is we?

>>7924372
The bell curves on multiple facets of intelligence are very different between males and females. I really don't think society could replicate results like that.
For instance, males tend to be much better at focusing on mentally intensive work. Females are naturally more drawn to care giver roles. Males are quicker to anger, and have stronger sexual urges.
You could argue that these are influenced by society, but I think it's more that society was influenced by nature, and from an evolutionary stand point, the traits I mentioned were clearly adaptions our species made to succeed.

>>7924379
People in general. I've never heard it explained in a different way than "I feel like a man/woman".
It used to be interchangeable with biological sex, but the whole transgendered movement made it take on a different meaning.

>>7924400
Your weirdo friends and snowflake teenagers and some lesbian Jew gender studies professors aren't "people in general"

>>7924433
Thanks.
Can you explain it to me then?
I asked this in the original response, and you ignored it. You're clearly not interested in discussion if all your responses amount to is "no".

>>7924441
Gender=biological sex. Gender=/=Gender identity.

>>7924458
Ah, okay.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with that use of the word, I would prefer it that way, because it's much easier than having to always type "biological sex". It would give the word an actual meaning.
Unfortunately, that's not the way most people use that word anymore, so it's no longer the most widely accepted meaning, and the purpose of a word is to communicate ideas.
Gender now means something based entirely on a feeling, and that's why I argue against it.
For you to somehow not understand that I do think that your use of 'gender' (interchangeable with 'biological sex') is a real thing that trans people can't avoid is beyond me.

>>7924482
>most
No. If that was the case there wouldn't be a constant battle of the freaks telling everyone that sex=/=gender. Most people still use sex and gender interchangeably. Literally look at forms everywhere, on government documents. They ask for gender more than sex. I'm so sick of sjw and their semantic mind games. Gender=sex a whore is not a sex worker she's a whore and racism is discrimination against anyone due to their race.

>>7924498
You're the one arguing semantics.
Look at the substance of what I said, and argue based off of that.
I don't disagree with the idea of the definition of 'gender' that you're putting forth. That's just not the way I tend to see it used. And if I do see it used that way, I'd probably be able to see from context what was meant.
Stop projecting your idea of 'sjw' and the way they think on me.

>>7924537
I'm not arguing semantics because there's nothing to argue over. I'm expressing my distaste for stupid contradictory arguments. Like how gender is somehow not real yet you can somehow be transgender at the same time.
>That's just not the way I tend to see it used
Where do you live Toronto or something. Because I again refer you to the fact that theres a debate over it in the first place. Maybe some organizations like Facebook have capitulated but most people either don't care or refuse to bow to tranny nonsense. I never called you a sjw but the fact of the matter is that most people on lgbt live in bubbles surrounded by their weirdo fag friends, there's a much higher tendency that said weirdo fag friends are liberal sjw types so to you it might seem like that's the most common usage but I promise you it's a vocal minority kind of thing. Maybe it's becoming more common with special snowflake youth and at some point you'll be right but just because youre not exposed to normal people doesn't mean they don't exist.

>>7924622
It's mostly what I see on the internet. Doesn't matter if it's my little 'bubble', I don't agree with it anyways.
I don't really know how I feel about transgender-ness. I think it's undeniable that some people have masculinity/femininity levels that don't match their biological sex, and I don't see a reason to tell them to suppress it, or to not medically alter themselves if it alleviates their struggles with their perceived 'gender identity' (dysphoria).
My biggest issue with the whole situation is that people try to conflate words, and some people don't want real things to have words to define them. I don't mind the new 'made up' words if they define a clear concept.
Really, I don't have a problem with the word 'gender', I have a problem with the way I see it used a lot of the time. It's definition either needs to be restored to the use you're describing, and there needs to be a new word to describe variation in masculinity/femininity in an individual, or it needs to change to describe the concept of varying masculinity/femininity in an individual, in which case, it wouldn't be binary.

>>7924394
>For instance, males tend to be much better at focusing on mentally intensive work.
>Males are quicker to anger, and have stronger sexual urges.
These can certainly be socially influenced and are generalizations, not fundamentally male or female traits.

>Females are naturally more drawn to care giver roles.
This is even more obviously societal and not a facet of intelligence at all.

>>7924888
Do you believe that common behavioral tendencies between members of the same sex are not at all influenced by endocrinology, literally chemicals that have been proven to influence behavior and are present at varying levels based upon sex among other things?

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>>7923620
Underrated post

>>7923513
> I am nonbinary so I am going to use the bathroom of the opposite sex because I feel like causing unnecessary trouble
> because of this they will create bathroom laws which hit real trans people way harder than myself
> thank me later for being a voice for trans people
No thank you

>>7925060
If you had any principles you'd want sex segregation ended.

>>7924986
I'm perfectly willing to believe chemicals can affect mood.

That's not the same as thinking differences between men and women can be reduced to that rather than societal influence.

Also as you said there are plenty of biological influences that aren't anything to do with sex.

>literally chemicals that have been proven
Not disagreeing with you but what this board says is scientifically proven tends to be pretty far from reality.

>>7925106
>That's not the same as thinking differences between men and women can be reduced to that rather than societal influence
Muh society. How do you think cultural mores develop? They don't just arbitrarily happen. I don't necessarily believe that men are x way and women are x way but if you refuse to believe that there are inherent general behavioral tendencies between the sexes with a statistically small percentage of outliers then you're deluded. Separating what is a result of biology and what is a result of culture (which is influenced by biological dimorphism among other things) isn't simple but to outright refuse to believe biology influences behavior is so stupid.
>Not disagreeing with you
Then shut the fuck up.

>>7925140
>Muh society. How do you think cultural mores develop? They don't just arbitrarily happen.
Perhaps you can tell me what biological changed caused pink to change from the boy color to the girl color?

>>7925160
I never said anything about color. Faggot

>>7925140
>>7925175
I don't know why you got so triggered all of a sudden. You seemed to be reasonably discussing this but as soon as I pointed out the unreliability of /lgbt/ 'science' and didn't agree that common behavioral tendencies like colors could possibly be without a biological cause, or even just without a sex-based biological cause, you suddenly became "STFU faggot". Are you even the same poster I was talking to?

>>7925218
No one said anything about colors faggot. I don't l like faggots putting words in my mouth tyvm.

>>7925411
OK, obviously I didn't realize when you were talking about cultural mores and common behavioral tendencies >>7924986 >>7925140 that you were only talking about some of them, not all of them, because you didn't say so and it sounded like you meant all of them.

So which ones do you think are and aren't cultural?

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>>7923513
I used to think I was genderfluid or androgynous but it turns out I was just full-on trans and still hanging onto some denial. I think a lot of non binary people are actually just trans male or trans female and haven't fully accepted it yet. Maybe there are some actual cases, though. If somebody wants to say they're nonbinary, it's really none of my business and I don't give a fuck. Live and let live.

I have male genitalia, I was assigned male at birth, I present as male most of the time, and am fine with he, she, or they pronouns.

I identify as agender, but no one knows it. After all, while genitalia and gender presentation can be seen externally, gender identity can only be known if you decide to tell someone about it.

I know I am agender, which makes me non-binary, because I truly don't feel like a man or a woman. Regardless of how I present, I feel the same. If I was magically changed into the opposite sex, nothing meaningful would change. I am me, an NB.

Of course there is stigma, specially if you are physically male, so I doubt I would ever come out. After all, there's no need.

Whenever I go someone where and they address me as male or female, then apologize and say the other one, I DO say "no, you had it right the first time" to fuck with them though. AFter all, they got it right by going with how they perceived me to begin with.

>>7925456
Yeah, I'm definitely not trans. I am sure that some people use it, like you said, as a stepping stone like some people use bisexual for a gay stepping stone, but like bisexual people, NBs like me still do exist.

>>7925457
>because I truly don't feel like a man or a woman.
In what sense do you feel like neither?

>>7925218
Yeah, I'm >>7924718
>>7924537
>>7924482
>>7924441
>>7924400
>>7924394
>>7924360
>>7924270
I stopped responding, because people weren't reading what I actually was saying.
Other's took over and added their own flare.

>>7925504
It's really difficult to explain. Labels and words should be something you pick to define yourself to, but rather help describe you to others. When I say I don't feel like a man or a woman, I mean I feel like me. I don't want want to sound unclear but...

Imagine, and for the sake of example, say souls are real, and separate from Norman and expectations and trends you might have seen growing up. Imagine if your soul was popped out and placed in a perfect, robotic shell with a holo-emitter.

You could do everything you could do before, but you wouldn't feel certain things, you wouldn't feel naked, you wouldn't feel handsome, you wouldn't feel pretty... but if you felt like changing things externally, either socially or in appearance, you could, while it was all sandboxed away from your soul. You could make yourself sound more soft like a female organic unit to better communicate with girls, and tough around with the boys. You're capable of it, but it is completely sandboxes from your soul OS, and you have inifinte "modules" to use. At have no effect on it.

In essence, I'm like BMO. BMO can be masculine or feminine at times, but they have no gender and either way, that module is separate from what makes BMO truly BMO. It is kinda like being like a robot.

>>7925522
>because people weren't reading what I actually was saying.
I hate that so much! Was I failing to understand what you were saying too?

>>7925563
I think I get it. That's pretty cool. Why do you think you are that way when most people are cis or trans?

I think it's fake, but a good thing.

Maybe it's a stepping stone to admitting your trans or maybe it's just a teen/young adult rebellious thing. Either way it's helping you find yourself so that's a good thing.

>>7925707
It's a stepping stone to abolishing gender.

>>7925637
As contradictory as it sounds... maybe the way I was raised? I was raised in a loving home, and when I was growing up, I never played dress up (like some kids do as fireman, builder, doctor, nurse, princess etc) because I found it boring, but liked blocks, trains and plushes. Soooo many plushes! I even had tea parties with them until 10ish when I stopped playing with toys and kinda grew up. When in first grade we learned about colors and they asked for my favorite and it was violet, I got teased. My mother told me after school that the lord made all the colors for everyone, they aren't for boys or girls, and then told my dad what happened; he took me to buy a new backpack in the coolest shade of violet ever.

When puberty hit, that's also when I learned that I never had urges (I later realized I was asexual, but since gender and orientation are different things, it's irrelevant to this), and I just kinds grew up, not from a child to a pubescent girl or boy... but to a person. I tended to pick up clothes that were just nothing special, and looking back at it, it was pretty androgynous (not that external androgyny has bearing on gender iendtity of course).

I was lucky to always be myself I guess, my true self, always being asked what I liked instead of being told what I had to be, you know? Since I was never "out there", I kinda never had my true self oppressed. Now as an adult and aware of my gender, I kinda sometimes try to hide it, but at the end of the day, I gotta be me.

And yes, I still have mounds of stuffed animals. My dad still gets some for me from time to time.

>>7925728
As for not being trans, I know I am not CIs (hate that term, it's sexist and implies non-binary people don't exist) because I have absolutely no dysphoria or hesitation when wanting to present and be female. I know I'm not trans because regardless of my sandboxed "presentation/language state", I don't long to be something else, I'm complete.

I can't speak for all NB people, or even all agender people, but being agender can at times be like being everything and nothing, and this and that all at the same time. It's liberating as it feels like your mind and your soul are one.

>>7925728
>My mother told me after school that the lord made all the colors for everyone, they aren't for boys or girls, and then told my dad what happened; he took me to buy a new backpack in the coolest shade of violet ever.
Top tier parenting! This attitude would probably be really beneficial for trans children. I thought violet was girly though!

>I later realized I was asexual, but since gender and orientation are different things, it's irrelevant to this
I think it could be. If you're attracted to the opposite sex, that's a major incentive to present and act like your gender role. If you'd been into guys, you might have wanted to be pretty to attract them, and if you were into girls that could have influenced your presentation its own way, maybe dressing butch to put off guys and signal to girls you're into them.

>I was lucky to always be myself I guess, my true self, always being asked what I liked instead of being told what I had to be, you know?
Definitely! I think a lot of harm is done by forcing people into assigned roles.

>>7925749
>It's liberating as it feels like your mind and your soul are one.
I'd love to get that kind of liberation!

>>7925707
I agree that it's fake, but not that it's good.

It's damaging to actual trans people.

Because just like the early 2000s when it was vogue to be "bi" (as in "I'm bi but would never have sex with the same gender") .... and those people grew out of the fad...
Damaged real gay people who came after, as it reinforced the BS that "it's just a phase"...

And so these "nonbinary" asshats are doing the same thing to the real trans people whose identity they are coopting.
Stop being Rachel Dolezahls whitebread heteros... you only hurt the people you are emulating/coopting.

>>7925929
It helps trans people, the same way bisexuals help gay people but even more so.

>>7925822
Thank you for the kind words. I guess you do have a point about there not being a need to please with presentation for attraction.

I am lucky. Just remember, non-binaries exist! Lots of us don't come out due to stigmas and accusations of pretentious or fakeness, specially people like me who are physically male as there is a stigma athatched (more female-born NB people are public about it due to stigmas against males, wether it be from "CIS" people or trans people).

Side note: I really hate the term CIS. :( I am not trans, I am not CIS.

>>7924360
>If you disagree, then explain "gender"

Something wildly misinterpreted by trannies so they can pretend they're something they're not

Gender and biological sex are inseparable. Only difference is, one is used in the context of cultural norms, and one is used in the context of biology.

Your "gender" can't be female white your "sex" is male. You're one or the other.

>>7926261
You forgot to say why not. As it is, you're just saying 'no u'.

>>7926304
What the fuck are you talking about? I explained it pretty well there, you might need your eyes checked.

>>7923513
I identify as non-binary when I'm too insecure about my status as a transwoman... It just hurts way less to say to myself that I'm non-binary because I'll never pass and no one will ever see me as a woman

>>7926488
You are trans tho, and you know it.

>>7926521
I know, but who among us doesn't engage in self-deception to feel okay?

>>7926261
>Gender and biological sex are inseparable.
No they aren't. They culture and biology are completely different. How can you not be aware of this?

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>>7926563
i don't

>>7926575
>i don't
A great example

>>7926563
Agender person here from series of posts above.

Just because I don't go out of my way to show the world I identify as agender does not make me any less agender. Gender identity is all in your head, no one knows it unless you tell them. By lying to yourself, you are only hurting you. Please don't do that.

Lets see if I can make a post of my opinion entirely using other people's posts.

>>7923541
>I don't believe in it and I think it should not be included under "transgender"

>>7923623
>However, everyone I met who identifies that way acted like a girl.

>>7923940
>a thing girls call themselves when they don't always want to wear a dress.
>>7924075
>Or I just... don't care.

>>7924313
>I think the whole concept of "gender non-conforming" started out as a noble cause because people are expressing that they're done putting up with social expectations that come with their gender

>That being said, the nonbianary thing is a meme because there can only be two genders.

>>7926488
>I identify as non-binary when I'm too insecure about my status as a transwoman


OK I think that about sums up my opinion. With the small addition that as long as they aren't dumb about it I will respect their pronouns and shit.

I'm non-binary. I don't expect people to understand it. Sometimes I don't even understand it myself. But basically I don't feel comfortable as either gender and do my best to be somewhere in no-gender land.

>>7927012
I'm special. I don't expect people to understand it. Sometimes I don't even understand it myself. But basically I don't feel comfortable as a normie and do my best to be somewhere in snowflake land.

>>7927012
You are delusional, or you didn't learn to play games properly as a child. You do not get to decide your identity on a whim. It is something negotiated and partially imposed upon you by other people.

I know you want to pretend to be some special person who changes from moment to moment but that is a falsehood. An identity that is that nebulous and flexible is no identity at all. Go see a therapist and get out of whatever bubble you live in.

>>7926488
>>7926997
>I identify as non-binary when I'm too insecure about my status as a transwoman
Is there anything wrong with this? It feels like the right mentality to have for me.

>>7927046
I'm a woman. I don't expect people to understand it. Sometimes I don't even understand it myself. But basically I don't feel comfortable as a man and do my best to be somewhere in female land.

>>7927047
>You do not get to decide your identity on a whim. It is something negotiated and partially imposed upon you by other people.
Couldn't this be said against all trans people?

>>7927055
There is. Essentially it is like saying if you don't pass you should just be non binary. Fuck that noise. It drags everyone on both sides.

Trans by definition means to move from one thing to another.

Non binary basically means checking out of the equation entirely.

I also don't get why AMAB people who are non binary take female hormones and wear basically women's clothes, without shaving/getting hair removal.

They just end up looking like lazy transwomen.

>>7923513
Humans only have two genders. Being nonbinary is no different than being a furry. You're either a man or a woman and you're not a wolf

>>7927170
>if you don't pass you should just be non binary

why don't people just say androgynous?
this non-binary shit is annoying.

>>7927170
I am a transwoman but I'd rather get to be a feminine person than a male-who's-a-woman.

>>7927208
If you reread that you will see that I am actually saying that it is BAD to say that. . .

People who identify as non-binary are usually teenage cis girls. Their parents have imposed strict gender roles on them, but once they become more independent they start enjoying 'masculine' activities. This makes them think that whatever inherent masculinity they have is an indicator of them being men on some level. However, they still like girly things and are content with having a vagina, thus creating an illusion of being outside the gender binary.

Non-binary is a label used by people who mistakenly believe that gender and gender roles are one and same. They are harmless but misguided.

>>7927263
most of the non binaries I know are 30+ and a mixed bag of AMAB with a sprinkling of AFAB

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>>7923715
Look up John Money - He's a sick fuck who got away scot free.

>>7927468
He was right though.

>>7927208
>why don't people just say androgynous?
Holy fuck this

Why do people act like the word androgynous doesn't exist anymore? To me it makes a lot more sense just to call yourself an androgynous male or female instead of this third gender meme. People will take you more seriously and not look at you like some sort of Tumblr degenerate.

>>7924084
>Implying non-binary people don't change their bodies with medications and surgeries too
you're an idiot

>hurr but clothes aren't biology
even dumber

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>>7925723
Unironically this

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>>7926261
This this this

Gender and sex are the same bullshit, it's just a meme gay/trans people came up with so that regular people don't hate them as much

Taking hormones basically makes you intersex anyways, since their effects is the primary cause of all sexual differentiation anyways

>>7928087
But that's wrong, you fucking retard

>>7928142
All of the assumptions people make about gender come from sex (and our physical conditions), all of the assumptions people make about sex are inferred from gender. They are tied by the same homologous relationship, just appearing at different scopes of perception

The reason people develop genitals or brain differentiation or anything else related to our sexual differences is a result of the effects of hormones, something that trans people (non-binary included) actually change. The several different components which are used to construct sex are correspondingly changed as well.

Gender and sex are a manifestation of the same thing, you can't have one without it's analogous coexisting

>>7926570
>culture and biology are completely different.

My point was that "gender" and "sex" are essentially the same thing, just used in different contexts. If your sex is male, your gender is male, and if your gender is female, your sex is female.

I have a feeling trannies are being intentionally obtuse about this just so they can all themselves something they aren't

>>7929031
Your point is incorrect!

I've been out as trans longer than most trans folks on here and an non binary but I align and work with/for trans women of color. Tbh I don't feel the biases and statuses of Western identity align with myself BUT I also critque the identities of the global South built on the very gender binary third genders often spring from.

Basically I don't care what others think but ultimately be out as trans preteens I'm fine just being a tranny at this point and don't crave or seek validation for a womanhood that centers cis woman narratives

>>7929110
tl;dr trans Dolezal

>>7929060
And you're a man

>>7929031
I'm trans myself, and I believe that sex is the exact same thing as gender. That doesn't mean trans ppl aren't the sex they align with, their bodies are just intersexed.

>>7929241
>and I believe
Hallelujah!

Meanwhile, in the real world, we have science instead of faith.

>>7929241
>their bodies are just intersexed
Except "intersex" is an actual physical abnormality whereas transvestism or transgenderism or whatever the fuck you call it is purely a mental one, until you start pumping your body full of unnatural hormones.

That one agender person who posted was fairly interesting, but are agender people truly nonbinary?

>>7929898
Are you the anon who uses plant estrogen because it's "more natural" than chemically identical estrogen that was made artificially?

>>7923513
nonbinary mostly seems like people who don't fit into gender roles and believe that gender roles = gender

there are a few I know who have dysphoria for both sexes so i guess there's like, atrender, and trve agender, but atrenders are far more numerous than transtrenders (in terms of percentage)

I'm not too sure. I think there needs to be more research done.

I don't think that there are 76+ genders though, maybe 2-3.

>>7932370
People actually do that?

No, but wherever they come from, they're being unnaturally introduced into your body.

>>7934668
Are you also against GMO:s? SSRI:s? Vitamin pills?

>>7931733
As a different agender person, I think so. Some NBs are a mix of male and female, but I've met just as many that don't identify with either one.

In my case, I don't have any male identity, and not enough of a female identity to be a trans woman, so agender is the best fit for me. I've thought about becoming a reverse trap, but that would mean transitioning to female first and taking on a different kind of dysphoria, so probably not worth it.

Biologically if some people are trans, it makes sense that some people would be agender or nonbinary though. Brains probably vary a great deal in how 'male' or 'female' they are.

>>7935750
Violet-backpack agender here again.

Question: what do YOU think of the term cis? I know you mentioned possibly considering the trans label, but for those that aren't trans, would you say it invalidates some NB people?

>>7935787
I think it's fine. Cis implies identifying with the gender you were assigned at birth, so a non-binary person is still non-cis even if they aren't trans. Saying someone is either cis or trans is oversimplifying, but I don't have a problem with the word cis as long as it isn't twisted in that way.

>>7935714
You're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say I'm against them? You can do whatever you want with your body, might even make a cute trap in the process. Doesn't mean the hormones are natural.