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Have you ever met/known somebody who you're sure is repressed trans or doesn't yet know it themselves? Ever turned out to be right? Ever turned out to be wrong?
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>>7914248
yes lots of times.
i was right all the times except once. =\
Feels a bit odd that i thought i was helping her get over her resistance, but i was really just pushing a cis boy into taking girl pills.
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>>7914880
I wish I had friends help me get over repressing
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>>7914248
If you don't have this skill with near 100% accuracy then you aren't trutrans
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>>7914880
How do you tell? Why did you get that one time wrong?
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>>7914907
yeah i do god's work
>>7914923
im trans too, so if i just like, recognize my younger self in them i know to prey on them. specifically??
>lots of protesting when girly stuff comes up
Want to go ice skating anon?
NO! I'm not gay or anything!
>they blush really hard when you talk about girly stuff with your friends, and look like they're kinda listening and trying to look like they're not
>"I'm not gay, but im not homophobic or anything, i have gay friends" strange hinting about *something*
>plays as girl characters in video games with a prepared excuse instantly delivered when you ask why "oh i just like how they look and staring at a butt while i play"
>either very vocally opposed to trans stuff which is odd
>or silent about it
>they let you paint their nails. if they put up a fight, its a tiny little one thats over after one or two objections.
>and put makeup on them
>then you find out its really easy to go through their objections when its related to feminine stuff
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>>7914923
>why did you get that one time wrong?
he was your stereotypically adorable femboy, and was throwing up these redflags, like asking if he could borrow my sweater when it wasn't that cold (wants to wear girl clothes) and he mentioned a few times that he used to date this lesbian (obv validating), asking me about hormones, *really* interested..
so i do the usual thing and start seeing what their internal self is like. asking him if he wants me to help him do his makeup, oh sorry i just thought you were already wearing makeup you're so pretty, talk him into crossdressing..
anyways, i asked if he wanted to start hormones and we got him hooked up with this doc, and he panicked when he started getting boyboobs, and quit the mones and cut his hair really short and went back to boy name.
right now he's back to being a no-hrt femboy.
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>>7914955
Oh boy. More examples of the protesting about girly stuff?
>strange hinting about *something*
What kind of hinting?
>either very vocally opposed to trans stuff which is odd
That's pretty sad, whether it's self-hate or just a cover. How badly opposed does it get?
>they let you paint their nails.
But for to test it that way you already need to suspect.
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>>7914907
I wish I had friends that helped me repress
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>>7915038
Repressing doesn't help I'm a master of escapism but I still have extreme dysphoria and want to die a lot. I just don't have the courage to just transition and maybe lose all my family/friends and life as I know it.
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>>7915038
How could friends help with repressing?
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>>7914955
I forgot the strongest symptom:
They have long shitty unkempt hair. it really needs to be brushed and conditioned.
>>7915011
>more examples of protesting?
idk. you can just usually tell how emotional they get when you invite them to some mildly feminine activity. that big emotional reaction is same thing that inspires bullies. at least in me. its fun.
>what kind of hinting
that they're queer is some way. or different than other guys. then deny deny deny. but still hint. hoping for someone to find out.
>very vocally opposed
its usually like, they have an axe to grind and pick a topic they think people will agree with, like they'll talk about disliking Caitlyn Jenner. Out of nowhere. Passionately. Which cis guys practically never do. or that trans women aren't women because "what is a woman, maaaaan?".
and
>they dont watch football
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>>7915001
>not reccing bica + ralox
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>>7915107
yeah back then i didn't know about ralox
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>>7915095
>hair well brushed though not conditioned
>have some superficial football knowledge
I think I'm safe from detection!
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>>7915095
>They have long shitty unkempt hair. it really needs to be brushed and conditioned.
Well fuck me
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>tfw no friend to help me socially transition
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>>7917544
>interested in anime, vaporwave, or other subculture associated with insular and depressed behaviour
>has pics of catgirls / anime traps on PC
>goes on r9k but usually too timid to post
>became more obviously depressed / less caring of appearance as puberty went on
>more likely to identify as 'agender' first while not changing presentation at all in an attempt to reject entirely the need to adjust gender presentation through transition 'cause "gender is a s-spook"
>crossdresses for Halloween but seems slightly too into it / alternatively, is on the brink of tears the whole time a la Erin Transon in that one makeup video
>jokes about how cool it would be to have boobs but it isn't entirely for sexual reasons
>the clincher: if you talk about transitioning in hypothetical, their reasons for why they wouldn't are all "it wouldn't work out for me", "it's too much upheaval" etc. and not "I don't want to be / look like a woman"
if you know somebody who has 5 or more from my list and other anon's list combined, they're probably a tran
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>>7917988
>>7914955
A lot of these seem accurate
The big couple I see missing is
> Ostensibly straight. Avoids straight porn because 'looking at the dick is gay'. seems to find lesbian intimacy/porn strangely relatable.
> Has thing for trans girls. (May or may not spend too much time protesting that 'it's not gay!' like all the others.) Doesn't seem actually interested in sex though.
>Multiple trans friends
Also:
>>the clincher: if you talk about transitioning in hypothetical, their reasons for why they wouldn't are all "it wouldn't work out for me", "it's too much upheaval" etc. and not "I don't want to be / look like a woman"
this is accurate but tends to be true but strictly an internet thing and not something that would come up IRL except if they're 90% of the way out of the closet anyway
>>7915095
>They have long shitty unkempt hair. it really needs to be brushed and conditioned.
Alternately. Looks extremely unfeminine not in a deliberate way. Rather like they don't 'get' shaving, have a neckbeard, poor grooming, etc.
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>>7917988
Im almost trans according to your list.
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>>7918439
Damn thats a really hot pic
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>>7914955
I fit all of those except for "I'm not gay" since I am gay.
But I'm not trans anon, I'm just a gay fetishist crossdresser
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>>7918439
Right click, save as.
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>>7918439
>needs arm to cover titties
>they aren't even girl nips
>isn't quite covering feminine penis
She fails the one-finger challenge.
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>>7914955
I'm a physically masc AGP repressor, but very introverted. Think you could spot someone like me?
>>7918435
I'm too masc for a neckbeard I got a real beard going on, also my hair is very short so it doesn't look unkempt.
I definitely could relate to lesbians, especially when younger(thought it'd be hot to be one), but i'd be comfortable penetrating a woman or tranny. Or at least I think I would be, I never actually use my dick other than fapping, i'm a wizard you see.
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>>7918435
surely a repressor would find a beard dysphoric?
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>>7921253
I'm a repressor and sometimes I grow a beard a little not because I want to when I see myself with a beard I always shave but sometimes i'll go days without looking at a mirror since I hate myself and one will just grow a little
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>>7921253
Not if it's used as a mask for deep repression. Not to mention shaving irritates my skin so beard=comfy. Maybe i'm less dysphoric than some trannies though.
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>>7914248
Is that Arin? We all know Arin is MtF, baka.
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>>7921325
That's why she and Jon had a falling out
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>>7921253
It's about not caring enough about your body to bother with shaving or other basic hygiene things
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>>7921352
>this is not a AGP bait right
Let's test it: Who are you attracted to?
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>>7915079
Context-dependent.
They could vocalize negative reactions towards feminine behavior. They could talk about Caitlyn Jenner, how she looks like an alien, and how trannies are just deluded faggots. They could beat the fuck out of each other for showing effeminate aesthetics. They could kiss you deeply and tell you that everything will be alright, then hang themselves.
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>>7921477
dicks.
k seriously, to both sexes, romantically and sexually.
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>>7922110
But none of those things sound like they would really help besides staving it off in the immediate future. Especially the last one, besides the kissing bit.
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>>7914248
can you people stop tricking normal boys into being girls and ruining their reproductive systems etc etc.? thanks. it's like you take sick pleasure in bringing someone down to the depths of depression and suicidal idealization with you.
- someone whose trans friends keep trying to get them to take hormones
p.s. hang out with other people that aren't trans once in awhile? whats wrong? afraid of the world you freaks?
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>>7922250
>someone whose trans friends keep trying to get them to take hormones
why do they kn- think you are trans?
>p.s. hang out with other people that aren't trans once in awhile?
isn't that the problem you're talking about?
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>>7922250
Well I wish I could actually look good in a dress, so why not help others who still have a chance?
Maybe it is you who is evil. You want them to grow up and then realize, all too late, that they missed the train when it was there and now they can no longer get up on it. Is that what you like doing?
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>>7921253
There's 'repressor' and there is doesn't know why yet, but has no enthusiasm for any aesthetic effort.
Think about it, they could:
>Get their man shaving cream and man razor out and do manly shaving. So they look the most like a respectable man in their man's office suit when they show up for their job as a man the next day. Then do this every day.
Or
>Not give a fuck and wallow in filth.
>>7921352
I forgot another obvious sign.
>Thinks AGP is a real and serious thing, because it's the only magic get-out-of-trans card that lets them match the description of trans exactly, but claim they aren't.
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>>7922363
If they even know what AGP is they're confirmed trans.
But anyone who understands it will tell you AGP isn't a get-out-of-trans card.
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>>7921202
>Think you could spot someone like me?
Yes. easily.
you'd present yourself to me sooner or later and it would be unmistakable.
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>>7922394
Until I started reading /lgbt/ I thought AGP was a get out of trans free card.
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>>7921352
yea its real. congratulations youre trutrans.
>>7922250
o okay, since dozens of people have thanked me but an odd handful like you have thrown hate at me i guess i'll give up gods work.
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>>7922686
I'd be impressed if a tranny could see right through me. There is some things off about me that'd probably tip you off(assuming i'm not hiding them). I'm basically a failed male AGP with a masc skull and body trying to live life as a man. So i'd probably have a very different energy from a conventional masculine man.
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>>7922705
Don't listen to that poster, keep up the grand work!
Post stories of people who have thanked you?
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>>7922250
>implying AGPs are normal boys
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>>7922877
there needs to be a task force designed to root out and transition young agps while they're still cute
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>>7922980
Thank you for your suggestion Blanchard anon.
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>>7917988
>>more likely to identify as 'agender' first while not changing presentation at all in an attempt to reject entirely the need to adjust gender presentation through transition 'cause "gender is a s-spook"
Holy fuck, just @ me next time.
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>>7923146
It's scary, I was thinking of doing that too. Glad I learned it was a trope before I outed myself.
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Hey recently hatched egg here. I was friends with two transwomen for the longest time and I just wanted to say their bravery and happiness as they came out and lived their lives really allowed me to find the strength to be open about myself.
Keep up the good work ladies.
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>>7923002
that wasn't me but i endorse it
t. blanchard anon
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>>7923188
what about agps who would cope as boys tho?
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>>7922980
Definitely would help, AGPs are good at hiding their condition. I'd imagine in the modern world AGPs probably exhibit the condition earlier and are less likely to repress.
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>>7923208
Do they merely cope as boys or do they love being one? I can cope with being a man via weed, but it's something i've had to learn to accept. Not to mention I've probably brainwashed myself a bit.
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>>7923260
maybe they could learn to love being one.
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>>7914955
>>7915095
>>7917988
>>7918435
>>7922363
>if you know somebody who has 5 or more from my list and other anon's list combined, they're probably a tran
>tfw at least 11/21 match me perfectly
Probably fucked my total count with some of the multi-line points.
>including the shitty long unkempt hair point and the general apathy towards male body care like shaving
>tfw several points that didn't count are just because the described situation has never come up before and I couldn't say with certainty how I would react
I didn't count the anime signs because while I do have a sizable anime women folder (not catgirls or traps), it's purely for 4chan shitposting/waifuposting/lewdposting purposes and I don't even watch anime. The lewdposting probably is worse though.
I've been thinking that I've been repressing for quite some time now, but I didn't really want to believe it. It's pretty scary that I'm hitting so many of these traits.
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>>7923208
presumably there should be some sort of screening measures to ensure only agps who will be better off as women by either both subjective and objective measures or a sufficiently extreme degree of subjective measures are transitioned
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>>7923362
Definitely but how can we tell? It seems that lots of AGPs develop dysphoria over time, even the successful masculine ones.
I've heard of AGPs regretting transition. But I haven't heard an AGP say they're glad they got to grow into a manly dude because they grew up before the modern trans movement. You'll here terfs say all the time how happy they are that they grew up before the transcult could trans their ass.
Myself I think being a masc dude is cool sometimes, but sometimes I mourn for a woman that never had a chance to live.
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>>7922394
>But anyone who understands it will tell you AGP isn't a get-out-of-trans card.
it isn't because it isn't a real thing.
>>7921202
>I'm too masc for a neckbeard I got a real beard going on, also my hair is very short so it doesn't look unkempt.
>I definitely could relate to lesbians, especially when younger(thought it'd be hot to be one), but i'd be comfortable penetrating a woman or tranny. Or at least I think I would be, I never actually use my dick other than fapping, i'm a wizard you see.
There's no "AHA! I WANT TO FUCK THEM WITH MY *DICK* THEREFORE IT DOESN'T COUNT!" here. I'm not talking about the actual fucking part.
I'm talking about relating to the ambience, setting and maybe before/after of lesbian scenes vs straight scenes. ie,
>being strong man seizing your fragile girlfriend and taking the responsibility to shield her from the world
vs
>being one of two cute girls in each other arms playing with each others hair, intermittently making out and staring at each other and blushing/giggling.
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>>7923470
Not him, but option two is much more appealing. What's the verdict on being the fragile girlfriend shielded from the world by her strong man?
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>>7923490
>gee anon I'm in a thread about closet trans girls explicitly wishing I could be a girl. I don't know what it means! Can you crack this code for me?
Sorry this one's beyond me.
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>>7923470
Oh now I get it. Option two is a lot more appealing, but when I was much younger I couldn't relate to option one at all. Nowadays I can to some degree.
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>>7918435
> Ostensibly straight. Avoids straight porn because 'looking at the dick is gay'. seems to find lesbian intimacy/porn strangely relatable.
yeah that's a very good one
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>>7921253
see
>>7921307
>>7921308
>>7921467
also pic related, I used to be infamous for this very thing and people would flame me for 'not being trutrans' over it
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>>7922250
I've only ever met a handful of mtf people IRL and don't know any who I hang out with regularly, got a couple of ftm friends but that's it
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>>7922694
Help this is me, am I an egg? What do I do if I am, I'm scared.
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so, from the makers of gaydar... there's... trans-mission?
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>be me, 7th grade boy
>did some girly things as a small child, but due to a traumatic experience repressed them all
>come across following video
>it's Kiss From a Rose AMV for Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2NSidvELo
>not this video but mute it and play kiss from a rose, and it will be similar
>because of this AMV I stumbled across, I start watching Kashimashi, first anime
>get hooked on anime for a while b/c of this
>ever since, always wish I get hit by an alien spaceship and become a girl
>it's been 9 years
Funny how signs are there yet it can still be hard to accept oneself
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>>7924248
>did some girly things as a small child, but due to a traumatic experience repressed them all
Explain?
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Stop talking about this at once. You are making me worried. I don't think I fit as much as 5 of the points, but it's getting close. I thought about it when I first learnt about trans to see if I could be as early as possible to avoid ruining my body, but I realized that I've always identified as male and behaved in male ways.
The ways I fit are my long, shitty hair, anime, know many trans people ( but have no friends), and cosplay some female characters. I also play as female characters in video games, but only sometimes, I mix it up so it doesn't count.
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>>7924048
There are certainly enough anons here on a mission looking for potential converts.
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>>7923542
Only growing a beard and actually liking it is non-trutrans
Also there is truth behind this (>>7917988). I identified as agender for quite some time (only internally, I didn't tell people shit like that). Making myself believe to be a genderless person helped to calm down my dysphoria a little bit.
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>>7918439
trap/10
c'mon guys, why would you want to be a tranny when you can be fem and still be cis (male) at the same time
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>>7924984
I'm new here, how do you do this?
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>>7925263
HRT but use binders
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>>7924984
>and still be cis (male) at the same time
why tho?
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>>7922250
lol woooooooow
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>>7924457
>always identified as male
are you sure you're not just lying to yourself?
>behaved in male ways
doesn't mean shit. That describes most AGPs.
>I thought about it when I first learnt about trans to see if I could be as early as possible to avoid ruining my body
damning bit right here. cis people don't do that
transition now. It's never too late, but the older you get the more regrets you will have.
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>>7925528
I'm already in my mid 20s, it's too late
>mfw I just fell for another point
Anyway, I mean, I've always rooted for the boys in boys vs. girls situations, I feel a need to correct people when they misgender me as "she", and saying "I am a girl" just feels really wrong. These are things that makes me say I identify as a boy. The opposite would make me feel like I'm lying.
They should make a neutral sex hormone, that doesn't give any of the effects of the sex hormones, but prevents the bad effects of having none.
I don't know if looking like a girl would be better either. I may dislike the effects of T, but I may not actually like other effects either.
And I might just be tricking myself, maybe I just fulfill these points because I'm ashamed of being cishet in a community that takes pride in having none, and thus picking up trans stereotypes to seem less cishet.
A bit unrelated, when you are misgendered does it mean you pass or do people assume you are a tranny? Have been asked if I were trans and intersex before if that matters.
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>>7925845
>I dislike the effects of T
Damn, all you repressers are the same. The more you talk, the more trans you sound.
>The opposite would make me feel like I'm lying.
Called imposter syndrome anon.
>when you are misgendered does it mean you pass or do people assume you are a tranny?
fuck if I know. I don't know what's going on in people's heads. I'd guess a mix
>I'm already in my mid 20s, it's too late
It's never too late anon. Mid 20s is a hell of a lot better than 40s or 50s. I've talked to a lot of older transitioners, and you know what they all say? The dysphoria just kept getting worse the older the got. Until it got to a point (usually around 40) where the just became too much and they didn't feel like they had any other choice but to transition. Do you really want to wait until you're 40? Cause it's not going to get better if you repress.
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>>7925939
>I've talked to a lot of older transitioners, and you know what they all say? The dysphoria just kept getting worse the older the got. Until it got to a point (usually around 40) where the just became too much and they didn't feel like they had any other choice but to transition.
Don't you see how self-selecting that is? The ones whose dysphoria didn't get worse or maybe even lessened don't end up transitioning, so of course you won't have met them and talked to them about it.
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>>7925315
Just the pills or all the way to Injections?
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>>7914248
I guessed that one of my best friends was repressed FTM years before he came out. He wasn't particularly masc, but he always seemed really uncomfortable as a girl.
I have another friend who I suspect is an MTF egg. I've been strategically bringing up trans and gender issues around him.
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>>7926370
For the FTM, how did he seem uncomfortable as a girl?
For the MTF, why do you suspect?
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>>7925981
Wow, will you look at that. You can find some common sense here on lgbt.
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>>7926370
What is an egg?
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>>7926958
I wondered this yesterday until the thread was about half way to where it is now, then it just struck me!
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>>7926968
OK fagget tell me
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>>7926958
Trans person who hasn't realized/is in denial that they are trans.
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>>7926958
Someone who can be turned trans.
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>>7927209
tfw i had eggs for breakfast
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>>7922877
isn't the point of agp that they are normal boys apart from the agp?
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>>7931579
No. The point of it is that they're aroused by the idea of being female/feminine. They can be anything from exactly like any "normal" trans women, to cis but just with a fetish. They do tend to be more masculine-acting though, even when they're dysphoric.
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>>7925939
Okay, I've been thinking about this all day. You are almost making me believe what you say might be true. Or maybe you're just scaring me with the idea of what I'll regret. I've been thinking that there would be some good sides if I were trans. I wouldn't have to feel ashamed of picking female characters in video games, I could cosplay what I want with the goal of passing, without taking lazy ways to look like I'm not actually trying, and not feeling wrong about being misgendered. So I could see some ways it maybe could be better.
But even if I were trans, transitioning wouldn't happen. My country has strict requirements to get that legally, and I have no reliable income to import illegally. Also, I have no friends to support me in that, and I really am male, like I said I think in male ways so I could still not take part in girl activities.
So even if I were trans, not much would change. I'd still look male, maybe I'd feel a little better about my gender expression, I'd gain some oppression points, I'd still keep it secret, maybe I'd start worrying much more about how I look.
I was actually thinking about the skull shape meme today, if being trans makes me feel bad about that, and you just made me trans, you've ruined my life. And by the way, you are just a guy on 4chan, I shouldn't listen only to you.
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>>7924984
>fem and still be cis (male)
kek
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>>7922833
the threads still alive.
>be me go to psych ward
>i know what you're thinking im going to save one of the patients, right?
>wrong.
>anyways, be me in psych ward
>riding out withdrawals
>nurse administers psych meds every night
>"here you go alli... spironolactone and estradiol...and trazodone... huh." he pauses staring at the meds for like a second and a half with a blank look
>i remember this.
>later on we're talking during this survey about how service is at the hospital, alone in this side room
>mention im thankful i can still get hrt because i was scared to go to hospital
>he pauses "..........whats it like? ....hormones?"
>i knew she'd ask this. still young enough to save. good.
>"it's...the best decision i ever made. Like..it makes me prettier, and happier..."
>he's looking at me really interested
>"...every male should go at least try them"
>later on that night its like 10pm and we're having a smoke break and he's supervising
>he's off in the corner with his clipboard trying to just be a nurse and pretend not to be trans
>walk over to him... "have you ever.. you know, felt anything like we talked about earlier? like...i dont know, like how i felt, that you weren't really supposed to be a guy?"
>talk for 20 minutes or so?
anyways ran into her at the mall like 6 months later and she was obv taking the hrt. ayyyyy
and like two of the girls at the local trans support group are my little sisters.
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>>7932595
>i was actually wasting my time thinking about the skull shape meme
>it made me really sad
>totally not trans tho
omgosh sis just transition.
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>>7934460
>he pauses
>i knew she'd ask this.
>he
>she
kek
>still young enough to save. good.
W-when is too late?
>"...every male should go at least try them"
wew
More stories?
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>>7934540
the best time to transition is always now. but serious answer?
>25 or under: super easy to save
>25-30: easy to save
>30-35: still can save
>35-40: takes some work
>40+: takes lots of work
>more stories?
okay.
>have friend who's an ER doctor
>he regularly goes to conferences/parties of other dr's and nurses. invites me sometimes.
>sometimes there's cool things like experimental medicine, or someone whose really advanced in their field
>but most of the people tend to be similar: They have this 'something to prove' attitude
>like they'll volunteer for a double shift because "fuck its no problem im not a bitch"
>of course they dont need a ride home after working 28 hours they're not a bitch
>bunch of people are clamoring to try this experimental chinese drug thats supposed to boost delta waves... yawn factory.
>suddenly have a good idea for spreading the cultural infection
>talking to friend about some of the neat new research on hormones, totally made up.
>"elevated estradiol levels were correlated with like.... subjects could tell smaller changes in color apart than natal males almost immediately, almost like they could see more colors"
>of course this attracts attention, a few guys begin asking if they can try hrt.
>reverse psychology it
>"Idk i only have a handful of vials left, i'd have to buy some more after this"
>"what if i gave you 20$? Would you shoot me up with estrogen?"
>quite a few healthcare employees are interested in this.
>perfect situation, plausible deniability.
>watch their body language carefully, notice the males who are excited about "fuck yeah i'll do anything hahaha bro check this shit out i dont give a fuck" and the ones who are nervous and trembling and excited
>file away mental notes about who's easier to awaken.
>conference lasts about a week
>manage to get one over repressing, give her some hrt to take home with her
protip: get dr to write double Rx's to give to eggs.
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>>7917988
yeah, this
the beard nitpicking seems to be silly because when people say "if you like it even a little" and like okay lets not be crazy
its a beard some people dont want to chop off their dick a lazy beard is the same thing... its comfortable not to shave, my cis friends do it and i dont think they think "this beard makes me a masculine person" they just have it and it is there this isnt a witch hunt for who is "trutrans" if women grew beards (they do) they usually would do the minimum to reduce its presence desu look at indian or paki women... like we all have bodies chill out if youre repressing a beard is okay it is an easy way to hide the trans signals and it takes zero heavy lifting
>>7932595
>Or maybe you're just scaring me with the idea of what I'll regret.
trans people get scared, period. end of story. its like being on a spectrum of gender dysfunction. if you worry about T or E or any gender shit you have some level of something--- some kind of issue. no cis het normie cares about that stuff until they are over hill and hormones are an old age problem. or if someone has a serious deficiency of a hormone that hurts their life and productivity.
>some good sides if I were trans
only a trans person- of some kind, again, maybe not sever dysphoria- could be able to see the "upside." because there are few and it is difficult to transition.
>and I really am male, like I said I think in male ways so I could still not take part in girl activities.
i dont ascribe to this sort of thinking. how can you think like so many that male = male thinking =/= female thinking. the hormonal differences are so muted and specific that if you gave me two grad papers by different sexes about the same topic, i would not be able to easily tell (barring maybe some socialized, not innate, gender behaviors) the difference on first skim.
>not much would change.
its the external things and the active composure of the person that changes. not saying its all "superficial."
>>
>>7932595
also it wont ruin your life it will probably make you irrationally happy... just sayin status quo is a joke and change is a real thing that ppl have to do in their lives if it isnt one youre obsessed with expect to have changes in your life you didnt want and dont like its part of being alive and growing
>>
>>7934699
>save
>work
What do you mean exactly?
>subjects could tell smaller changes in color apart than natal males almost immediately, almost like they could see more colors
lol. did any of the "i dont give a fuck bro" types take any for this? I don't think the color thing is even true.
>and the ones who are nervous and trembling and excited
How many were there? how easy was it to spot the nervous trembling excitement?
>protip: get dr to write double Rx's to give to eggs.
double Rx's?
>>
>>7934859
>save
>change brain structure while it is still malleable
>avoid hardship of #honlife
>gain as much feminine physically as you can
>work
>surgery
>makeup
>lots of effort
>see more colors
of course its not true.. i could just tell most of them were desperate for an oppurtunity to prove themselves, based on how quickly they were lining up to inject some unknown chinese research chemical, i thought they'd be eager for a chance to show off.
>how many were there
3 or 4? its easy to tell when you compare their behavior to cis guys, and trans girls you've shot before.
>double rx's
just ask doctor to write something ludicrous like "take 1 pill every 3 hours" so you get 180 pills a month, then you suddenly become inhousepharmacy
>>
>>7934916
>change brain structure while it is still malleable
what do hrt brain structure changes mean for the person they're happening to?
>>
>>7918435
>seems to find lesbian intimacy/porn strangely relatable.
FUCK
>>
>>7934962
this im interested
started at 18 for ref btw
>>
>>
>>7935081
but most effective at what? transition of for changing bodies, not brains!
>>
Why is it on this anonymous forum, where anyone can be completely honest and say "I'm closet trans but I have these barriers so I'm not out/on HRT" they instead try to convince people how they are exactly trans but not really because in their case 2 = 1.
>>7934916
>change brain structure
lol no
>>7934699
>the best time to transition is always now. but serious answer?
>>25 or under: super easy to save
>>25-30: easy to save
>>30-35: still can save
>>35-40: takes some work
>>40+: takes lots of work
more like
40+ male -> looking like hot young woman = hard
40+ male -> 40+ female = not so hard.
>>
>>7935654
i'm closet trans but i have barriers so i'm not out or on hrt.
>>
>>7935695
at least you are honest
>>
>tfw all this is my boyfriend
We've talked about it. He says he doesn't experience dysphoria, so there's no reason for him to transition. How long until the inevitable dysphoria train hits? He's 26.
>>
>>7932595
>a 4chan anon made me trans!
sure buddy. That's definitely a thing.No way you were trans before. It's all our fault
>you are just a guy on 4chan
did you just assume my gender? REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>7934699
You're the trans superhero we need.
>>
>>7936417
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, 40 seems to be some kind of weird dysphoria inflection point where repressors can't deny it anymore and will start going a little crazy about it. But it will have been creeping up on them throughout their thirties.
Get your bf on mones and make her your gf asap. Having a supportive significant other is basically every transgirls dream.
>>
>>7935654
I am certainly trans, apparently I am 'fabulous' and a lot of cis people have assumed i was gay(not into men though) I wont transition as I have a very conservative family and I am married(wife wasnt surprised when i came out to her while we were dating) and I have put a lot of effort into making my life as a man work.
>>
>>7936417
>We've talked about it.
How would you even start that conversation? What clued you in?
>>
>>7936812
I'm not going to pressure him to do anything. He knows that I would be very supportive, still love him, and still date him, but at the end of the day, it's his body and his decision.
>>7936828
Well, he's super into yuri, super into transformation doujin where a guy becomes a girl. He absolutely despises men on general principle. He almost always plays as a girl in vidya. He also loved the idea of "being a girl" during sex, but in a very... strange... way.
Anyway, when we first met, he was extremely transphobic. It pissed me off, so we'd argue about it every now and then. One argument, in trying to have him understand how transfolk think, is I said they "feel" female or male inside. He didn't get it, so I asked him, "well, how do you feel that you're male?" Since, that kind of reasoning tends to work for cis people.
He went dead silent for thirty seconds before softly saying, "I DON'T feel male." Needless to say, that shifted the conversation very quickly.
>>
>>7936945
>person with irrational hatred turns out to be thing they hate
what a shock!
sounds like your soon-to-be gf is still dealing with internalized transphobia. Even if she's gotten over obvious hatred of trans people, that shit is toxic and will still be affecting her thought processes. You don't need to pressure her or anything, just help her get over the vestiges of self hatred that are holding her back
>Well, she's super into yuri, super into transformation doujin where a guy becomes a girl. She absolutely despises men on general principle. She almost always plays as a girl in vidya.
trans as fuck. She can deny having dysphoria all she wants, but the person you just described is not someone that will be able to achieve long term happiness as a dude
>She also loved the idea of "being a girl" during sex, but in a very... strange... way.
can't just drop that without giving details
>>
>>7936945
>He absolutely despises men on general principle.
How does he despite men?
>when we first met, he was extremely transphobic.
What sort of transphobia exactly? How has he changed?
>>7936945
>so I asked him, "well, how do you feel that you're male?" Since, that kind of reasoning tends to work for cis people.
>He went dead silent for thirty seconds before softly saying, "I DON'T feel male." Needless to say, that shifted the conversation very quickly.
I bet! How did the conversation go?
>>7936982
>the person you just described is not someone that will be able to achieve long term happiness as a dude
How do you know that for sure?
>>
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Is extreme fear into actual being trans an egg thing? I constantly think about it and only scares me. Im scared that i only enjoy being girl out of being deluded that its nicer cause of chan culture instead of coming from inside of me.
>>
>>7937053
It's a questioning thing. What's appealing about being a girl to you?
>>
>>7937066
I gues its the enjoyment of not being assosiated with masculinity anymore that is being part of ''man''. (Come from an actual pretty manly world of military and construction) The softer threatment that you recieve and feeling more comfortable with myself as kidna of a softy kidna person. Also i love the idea of being a housewife for my boyfriend and a mother as its the perfect situation i can see myself in. My own secure home and enviorment and have kids. Im scared offcourse that this is all just delusion but youknow the alternatives of like being a tough guy whatever whatever the fuck isnt appealing compared to being that ideal whatever i described.
>>
>>7937102
You're not deluded but you need to decide how much you can have a life like that without transition vs how close you can get to the cis girl experience with transition.
>>
>>7937172
My life is actually pretty far like that, got a boyfriend and living with him right now and he supports me 100%. Still do have anxiety of the judgement of my family if i do.
>>
>>7937197
Then perhaps transition won't get you much closer to the dream of being a cis woman than you already have. I hope you get to feel fully like your boyfriend's housewife!
>>
>>7936982
>can't just drop that without giving details
Well, we're kinky. He's my submissive, I'm his dominant. He's into more of the gentle femdom kind of kink, which is fine. So, when he mentioned crossdressing and gender play, I was very interested. I put him in some panties and started calling him shit like, "my good girl, my darling girl, my special girl," stuff like that. He was very, very into it. I referred to his chest as breasts, played with them like actual breasts. He was super into that, too. But it didn't feel like he was turned on because he was doing something "kinky," it felt like. He was into it because it was like, validating him. Afterwards, he had a weird dysphoric episode. I've never done that with him since, although he says he's fine with it now. I'm not so sure.
>>
>>7937546
>I put her in some panties and started calling her shit like, "my good girl, my darling girl, my special girl,"
literally every submissive transbian's fetish right there
>She was into it because it was like, validating her. Afterwards, she had a weird dysphoric episode.
Just as I suspected. She's completely full of shit when she says she doesn't experience dysphoria. That's a repression tactic. "If I pretend being a dude isn't eating me up inside then everything will be fine." And I totally get that. I've been there. The idea of actually transitioning, of taking this thing you've always thought about and wanted but never thought you could have and trying to make it a reality is really scary. When I got to the point where the evidence was piling up and I couldn't deny my transness anymore I spent several nights crying myself to sleep trying to figure out how I was going to deal with this. And looking back, a lot of my fears were overblown. It's been hard sure, but worth it. My only regret is not starting sooner. The signs had been there for years, and I had diligently ignored them.
Don't let the time slip by any longer.
>>
>>7937546
>Afterwards, he had a weird dysphoric episode.
???
>>
>>7915095
>They have long shitty unkempt hair. it really needs to be brushed and conditioned.
get off my back im trying to repress here
>>
>>7937636
I'm the boyfriend of the person you're replying to.
>She's completely full of shit when she says she doesn't experience dysphoria. That's a repression tactic. "If I pretend being a dude isn't eating me up inside then everything will be fine."
That's... pretty far from the truth, honestly.
I fantasized a lot about being a girl in college, but I was fantasizing about a lot of escapes at the time. I was a 23-year-old virgin who had never had a long-term girlfriend; I was profoundly lonely. Since I'm not a masculine guy at all (at least in terms of personality), being a girl would work rather well for me. However, I was also fantasizing about moving to Japan, because that's how much of a weeb I was/am. "Hey, maybe I can get a girl to like me if I move to a place where being white is an exciting novelty!"
I'm quite satisfied with how I look in the mirror, aside from the fact that I'm balding, but no one's happy about balding. I have no other qualms about eventually becoming an old man, and the thought of becoming an old woman is actually very unappealing.
I still occasionally fantasize about being a female character, but I can't remember the last time I've ever had a fantasy that involved being a girl that didn't also include having magical powers, fighting monsters, and lots of other fantasy elements. I don't want to switch to being a girl but continue to live out my current life. Hell, the only times I think about transitioning in any sense are when other people bring it up, and I can honestly say it just doesn't appeal to me. It would be a lot of work, and for what, exactly? Possibly being more attractive, but having to constantly shave my entire body to maintain that? Nah. Being myself is much less work.
>>
>>7938855
It sounds like your satisfied with your life as it is. You can keep roleplaying as a girl in the bedroom too.
Answer the other questions itt for your gf and tell us more about your former dysphoria and how you like being a girl during sex.
Are your sexual fantasies mostly about being male now?
>aside from the fact that I'm balding, but no one's happy about balding.
HRT halts balding.
>>
>>7938932
>Answer the other questions itt for your gf
It's 137 posts long and I'm trying to play Nier. Could you be more specific?
>tell us more about your former dysphoria and how you like being a girl during sex.
I had only ever fantasized about being a cute girl just like in my Japanese animes. When we first tried that roleplay, there was a bit where I looked at myself in the mirror (It was my first time wearing panties, so either I wanted to see how they looked or my girlfriend wanted me to check myself out, I don't remember which). While trying to be in the headspace of being a girl, just like I had fantasized about, and looking in the mirror to see a chubby, hairy, bland guy, I was absolutely disgusted. Here I was, finally being in that fantasy of being a girl, the result was that I was the fucking ugliest girl (by my own standards, at least; my girlfriend loved it) I had ever seen. It was an issue of "Your fantasy, which has always been on the opposite side of an impossible fence, is now real! AND IT'S FUCKING TERRIBLE AND NOTHING LIKE HOW YOU IMAGINED!" I was NOT prepared for that kind of mental clash. It didn't really hit me until a while after I had gone home from my girlfriend, but when it DID hit me, it suuucked. It was like finding out that Santa IS real, but he doesn't give any gifts and instead has been molesting you in your sleep. Eeeuugh.
That 'dysphoria', if that's what it would be called, was very much just a one-time thing, though. We haven't done roleplay with me as a girl many times since then, but I haven't had any issues. I now know what to expect, and to not try to compare it to my old fantasies. You shouldn't really ever expect to look in the mirror and see an anime character, no matter what gender or sex you are.
>Are your sexual fantasies mostly about being male now?
They've always MOSTLY involved me being male. I still have some amount of longing to experience what lesbian sex is like, but it's never been my main focus.
>>
>>7939134
>"looking in the mirror to see a chubby, hairy, bland guy"
>couldn't even be fucked getting rid of body hair.
You really put in the extra effort.
>>
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More like Egg-oraptor, amirite?
>>
>>7925845
>waah waah it's too late for me even though I pass with no effort
Quit whining faggot
>>
TIL that I'm a trans.
>>
>>7934522
It doesn't make me sad thinking about it. And it's not like thinking wastes any time, at least not if what you're doing doesn't require any thinking.
It's not sadness, maybe a bit of a worry. It feels a bit like anxiety, perhaps. Maybe some emptiness over never ever being able to fulfill my dream cosplays. But I feel that about all sorts of dreams, not just skull shape memes.
>>7936761
Okay was a bit unsure about that word.
>>7936761
>>7934818
>>7934798
Okay, I'll offer every argument I have against. I'm doubting myself, but this is what I got.
>dislike effects of T
I have feared the day I'd get beard or change voice since way before puberty. It may simply be a general fear of change that always applied to me, not because of trans but because it is like this. And this is not an argument in favour of trans, because only trutrans experience this at age this early, which we know I'm not due to my naturally male thought patterns and behaviours.
In other words, fear of T is not connected to being trans in me.
>watch anime
Mostly to fit in. I don't watch many of the seasonal fanservice anime, I watch more /a/core stuff. And I started watching anime because of other people, too.
>know trans people
Note, not friends, so already fail the requirement. And I didn't meet them through anything that has to do with trans.
>long, shitty hair
Yes, my hair is long, but honestly it's not that bad. I actually do use some conditioning, the only problem is unevenness and a bit messy.
In a previous thread, there were some other requirements that honestly hit closer to home. Will address those too.
>sit with legs close together
I started doing that because I heard it was gay and wanted to pretend just because. Also more polite on the bus.
>MRA whose biggest concern is clothing
I'm not an MRA, and it's natural to care more about what affects you. I'll probably never have children, while clothes affect me every time I want to wear something "feminine".
To be continued
>>
>>7941765
that bitch look ugly as fuck
>>
Cont. of >>7950317
>>7934798
>>7934818
>>7936761
>think of advantages of being trans
I believe privileges depend on what you want, and that most groups can have privilege in the right situation. I have a lot of practice in trying to think of possible privileges for trans people, because they are such an oppressed group.
I also want to repeat the thing that I may simply want to avoid being cishet to fit better in with my acquaintances, and thus pick up on things that make me look less cishet, even if I am. What you see may be fake.
Also, HRT is not an option. Too poor, and governemt support requires jumping through too many hoops, and you are obligated to do SRS which sounds super scary. In addition to all the other things.
>>7948792
I don't pass. I saw my reflection in a window, and honestly my shoulders look super big and my whole body is manly. I have some good things, like a voice that I think passes, and I am a bit of a manlet, and my face could be way worse, if I cover my forehead down to my eyes and my jawbones I actually look really acceptable, and less hair than I could fear, even if there is there. So some good sides, and in very special situations when all things come together I may pass, but there is no way I'd pass regularly, my shoulders and chest are simply too big.
>>
>>7950403
When people call you she and ma'am that's called passing retard
>>
>>7939134
>looking in the mirror to see a chubby, hairy, bland guy, I was absolutely disgusted. It was like finding out that Santa IS real, but he doesn't give any gifts and instead has been molesting you in your sleep. Eeeuugh
>b-but I'm totally fine with being a guy I swear!
we are reaching new levels of repression
>>
>>7922250
heterosexual sex only exists to please thots
ergo
>mtfs and femboys (who do hrt) are the ultimate brodies
>>
>>7950831
It's not passing if they assume I am a tranny. And it's very rare, anyway. Like once or twice every year. I had one event a few years ago that I'm sure I passed, but there is no regularity to it
>>
I refrained from posting because I'm hung over and I feel like an asshole, but I'm just going to admit it here for the first time.. I'm trans.. I never liked men how society told me to like men. IE friends. I never like women the way society told me to like women. IE companionship. My only girlfriend was a woman I respected who peaked my curiosity on what it meant to be a woman. Last but not least, I'm not here to please anyone but myself. Which is a change for once. I'm still an asshole, I'm still a bitch, I'm an alcoholic that didn't want to deal with h - her problems, but all of that's changing today. Starting now. Thanks to everyone that posted.. I'm going to bed now. I haven't been treating my body well for over a decade. #26andfinallyout
(I truly can't express how much this thread put things into perspective for me) ..Thanks again.
>>
>>7954444
Congratulations!
>>
Well, that's quite hard to ask, first time in /lgbt/ really, I'm normally on /tg/
I did know I was trans form quite a young age, around my teenager years. I coundt do much, both because I have that thought of "it's only a phase, when I grow up all will go well." and because I was in a males only school. Always in anime, some yuri, but all hidden. Also discovered traps existed, tried my hand on it a bit, worked well for a young teenager, and also ended with teacher calling me to corners and giving me messages of "be proud of yourself" or "Dont forget who you are, just cntinue!" .
Years pass by, a lot of friends know beause I opened up or because it was already so obvious they needed to ask why I was so gay, but still... not. Around my 17 I was building courage to tell my quite macho and conservative family, some of then who had scared me out of playing with dolls in my childhood that I was trans. Them suddenly... I got cancer.
First case in the family, yadda yadda. Ended with a female psych that is there to not let the cancer patients go depressive and die. She did see that I had something saddening me, and passed the entire time trying to crack me down and discover what it was. It took time enough to m e to be already at home, months later, when at a consult she just started asking about my body, and if I felt alright in it, and after some more questions I started crying loudly into her table. She asked me to go seek help because I obviously had dysphoria.
But there is the catch, I cant in htr anymore because of my cancer, and I have quite a large frame myself, not fat, actual large shoulders and thick beard, so in a mix of self refusal and fear of my family, I ended never coming back to see her.
Now I am around my 23-24 years old, unhappy, still with my family, I do study, but I dont care anymore. All I do is wait now.
Is there anything I could do now?
>>
>>7936417
>tfw my boyfriend kept asking if I want to be a girl
>tfw I kept saying no
>tfw when a few months later I come to him crying saying that it's too late and I want to die
>he gets me to go to therapy, start HRT just after my 26th birthday
I'm so glad he kept pushing me, I don't know what would've happened otherwise. Would you stay with them if they decided to transition?
>>
hahaha I relate to like all of these
I am never gonna do anything about it
time to paint my toenails and then hang myself :D
>>
I'm >>7950317 >>7950403 and more, and I guess I should do like >>7954444 and thank the thread. I still don't accept it completely, but the thread has been a real eye opener for me. It really got me to think, and now I'm relatively sure there might be some truth here. Anime is a silly thing to use as proof for transgenderism, but it I have to admit that it actually may be a pretty big warning sign when you dislike the gendered parts of your body shape, wish you were a girl, and prever to be female characters. I always assumed it was something very different and stronger than what I experience, but I guess it's easier to be trans than I thought. Maybe my lack of gender identity may also have to be with being trans, I assumed only trans people experienced it because I as a cis person did not, but maybe that's not it.
What I really want now is someone to talk seriously with, and just share my thoughts and hear what they say. Too bad I got no friends, so this won't happen.
>>
>>7956190
I'm afraid so. Get yourself on hormones as soon as you can anon. Your future self will thank you for it.
>>
>>7914248
I knew a guy in highschool that was clearly repressed gay. He had a 100% gay lisp and limp wrist but his sister wouldn't buy it until 3 years later he came out.
>>
>>7924048
Transceiver
>>
>>7939134
>I was absolutely disgusted. Here I was, finally being in that fantasy of being a girl, the result was that I was the fucking ugliest girl (by my own standards, at least
>it suuucked. It was like finding out that Santa IS real, but he doesn't give any gifts and instead has been molesting you in your sleep.
literally me a few years ago. at the time i was curious about crossdressing and the first time i did it i saw all my masculine features in women's clothing and felt absolutely terrible.
wasn't until later that i wanted to be a girl, and even then i tried to repress it because transitioning is harder than staying as a man. but eventually dysphoria got bad and i caved and went on hrt.
a little more feminine and a little happier now but i still haven't crossdressed since then.
>>
>>7914248
You people disgust me. Stop trying to convince gay boys to cut their dicks off, you god damn weirdos.
>>
>>7959029
>gay boys
The het trannies usually figure it out without our advice. /lgbt/ is in the business of convincing AGPs to cut their dicks off. Every new transbian we convert is one less cishet man.
>>
>>7959489
>Every new transbian we convert is one less cishet man.
so how do i find a bf?
>>
What do you do if you're trans and will never pass though ?
>>
>>7959518
If you're worried about a declining population of cishet men I assume you're a het woman.
Ideally you should join the bisexual master race. Then our efforts will have no effect on your dating pool.
Or you could just not give a shit. There are literally billions of cishet dudes out there. Even when /lgbt/ is operating at peak conversion capacity we aren't going to be able to make a noticeable dent in their numbers. Sad but true.
>>
>>7959536
Suck it up and transition anyway. Then move to a liberal city (where you'll get less shit for not passing) as soon as you can.
Not passing isn't ideal, but for a lot of trans people, especially older transitioners, it's just how it is. You can still live your life. You'll still be happier than if you hadn't transitioned.
>>
>>7959549
You're probably right but the thought of looking like a monster is pretty shitty. It seems like a lose lose situation.
>>
>>7959553
i don't think they are right
no matter what you do it's a shitty scenario unless you're delusional enough to think you're a girl when you don't pass and look like a man
some people are just hopeless and will never pass, it's a shame euthanasia isn't legal
>>
>>7959536
You tend to regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did do.
Give it a shot and see how it goes?
>>
AGP is just a fetish right? It's the psychological equivalent of sucking your own dick. You're not suggesting surgical rib removal so dick suckers can pursue their fetish so I dont see why the retort to gender flexability is chop your tackle off and inject mones.
>>
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I remember this kid told me I was "hiding" when I was 18. He said nevermind after and 10 years later I am just waking up from running from myself for all these years. Now I am scarred from drug use in a dead marriage and have become much more irresistibley masculine.
its really all just hitting me now.
Dont let your whole life pass you by like mine did. Now im just going to keep fuckn with H until im gone
>>
>>7960455
Irreversibly*
I thought I was crazy and now i am really crazy..
sucks.
>>
>>7957076
I think I would never pass because I'm like 180 cm, my shoulder circumference is about 50 inches (don't know if that's big or not), I'm 24 yo and my jaw line is quite manly.
>>
>>7960455
>tfw too close to home ;_;
>18, teach gives everyone in class a word to describe them
>get "searching" or some shit
>tells me I'll find myself if I accept myself
>started using drugs as my vice of choice
I dont wanna be you senpai
>>
>>7937636
>Literally every submissive tranabian's fetish right there
GET OUT OF MY HEAD! I DON'T WANT TO BE A TRANSBIAN REEEEEEEE!
>>
>>7960481
Dont..luckily i am surrounded by amazing woman who love me..if not for them well..
I am still moving forward just missed out on a lot. All those nights of depresssion and depersonilization when I could of been laughing with real friends creating real memories not these fake ones I have now.
>>
>>7915001
>fuck off annoying faggot
>>
>>7960406
I'm pretty sure it's more than just a fetish, at least for some.
>>
>>7937053
I had moments of thinking that maybe it's just me being depressed and that I'm just thinking that the grass is greener on the other side before I started HRT. But now that I've been on it for a year I'm so glad that that I chose to do this. I really feel like I've made the right decision, and I feel better and better about myself and more comfortable every day. I only felt that I knew 100% for certain that I was trans when my boobs started to grow and I didn't feel disgusted or turned on (I am bi) but it just felt right.
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>>7960406
Depending on who you ask, it's either just a fetish but it commonly is comorbid with gender dysphoria, or it's a fetish that commonly develops into gender dysphoria. Or it doesn't exist at all, but that's demontrably wrong; when people say that they're almost always referring to Blanchard's typology of transsexualism, rather than just the phenomenon of being turned on by the idea of yourself as a woman. Either way, having AGP does not mean you're not trans (in fact it makes it vastly more likely you are).
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>>7960788
Some fetishes are stronger than others. I just dont think we should be leveraging peoples emotional doubts about their fetishes into committed lie choices. That is the truck of fundie religons and possesive cults.
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>>7960839
AGP I think of as a bit broader. There's a reverse version of it isnt there were CIS Woman inserting into yaoi and shit like that? There's a BI AGP where female and male ideal is needed for people to get off, look at the split in tg porn threads between people who like het and les stuff. The behaviours here are much broader than AGP as subset of transgender tendancies it seems like something on the same spectrum as it is practicised by everyone, it's a basic form of fantasy fufilment. So trannys will have tranny agp ofc, but non-trannys will have agp but you cant say it's the tranny kind imo even though it works in a similar way because we are people you know? Does anyone feel me on thus one?
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>>7960406
AGP is a sexual orientation.
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>>7960406
AGP is the manifestation of gender dysphoria in neurotic introverts
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>>7965486
>neurotic introverts
Like Bruce Jenner?
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>>7965534
I wouldn't be surprised. She struggled with this shit for decades, going on hormones on and off, hiding from family and stuff. She only came out after the paparazzi basically wrung it out of her.
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>>7965486
Then why are they always lesbians or bisexuals? Where are the neurotic introvert straight trannies?
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>>7965634
Hiding away in their rooms like the bis and Lesbians
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>>7934460
>"...every male should go at least try them"
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