Why doesn't Janice Raymond get more hate? Every american

>>7880457
Why would trans women hate a feminist, a woman who stands up against patriarchy for them?

>>7880457
literally who

>>7880524
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Raymond
Her book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transsexual_Empire:_The_Making_of_the_She-Male

>Raymond investigates the role of transsexualism in society – particularly psychological and surgical approaches to it – and argues that transsexualism reinforces traditional gender stereotypes. Raymond also writes about the ways in which the medical-psychiatric complex is medicalizing gender identity and the social and political context that has helped spawn transsexual treatment and surgery as normal and therapeutic medicine.

>Raymond maintains that transsexualism is based on the "patriarchal myths" of "male mothering," and "making of woman according to man's image." She claims this is done in order "to colonize feminist identification, culture, politics and sexuality," adding: "All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."

>>7880537
based

>>7880582
/pol/ or /cislesgen/?

>>7880537
> "All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves
Does the word 'rape' mean absolutely nothing to these people?

>>7880607
Your words are raping me. Please stop raping the female form and check your toxic masculine privilege.

>>7880607
Are you butthurt you're getting called out on your fetishism and desecration of the female body?

>>7880607
>"All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves
I'm sorry, but that is the most METAL reason for hating trannies I've ever heard.

>>7880623
I'm a cis gay dude, so I actually do the literal opposite of fetishize the female body.. but thank you.
I just think it's crazy that someone could call themselves a feminist and be so offensive to actual victims of rape (majority of which are women) by using the word so carelessly

>>7880607
Rape means when an upper class woman doesn't get her way or dislikes something.

>>7880639
How do you know she didn't get the approval of some before using it?

>>7880679
How does she know the trannies "raping women's bodies by appropriating them" didn't get the approval of some?

Hint: We actually know many cis women approve of trans people and no vistims of actual rape who approve of her feminist storybook.

>>7880696
I'm sorry do you have any statement from a rape victim complaining about the use of the word in this situation?

>>7880706
>feminist moving the goalposts
More at 11!

>>7880698
Why do trans women need to get approval from feminists as to whether they can transition or not?

>>7880713
>>7880696 did it first, agp scum

>>7880726
>whataboutism
Ironic since that's feminists' first line of defense of their sexism.

>>7880726
>agp scum
why?

>>7880457
Isn't she dead? I thought that was why, but if she's still alive, then yeah she has probably personally ruined the lives of many trans women, hormones probably would have been readily available in the 80s and 90s if not for her. So she should be more hated than she is.

>>7880537
Hot damn, she's queen of the TERFs.

>>7880457
She's apparently not the most active nowadays and unfortunately she's not the only person with those views. My guess is that there are enough more active trans-exclusionary feminists that she ends up a low priority. Also the movement towards trans-affirming feminism means the exclusionary aren't as well known.

Still, fuck her.

I want all Terfs to get lynched.

>>7881046
terfs are the future of feminism

>>7880607
Was going to post this, fucking insane coming from an avowed feminist desu
>How best to fight inequality and lies?
>I know, I'll dilute the word rape until it doesn't mean a goddamn thing AND I come off as a total lunatic at the same time!

>>7880950
>trans-affirming feminism
You mean "gender isn't real so it's okay to change your sex" feminists? They're not that different from TERFS, all it takes is a little ill will.

fucking christ, i just wanna be rich and buy hormones for everybody

>>7882533
TERFs do think gender isn't real afaik. That just doesn't stop them hating us.

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>>7880537

>>7880457
What the fuck would that thing know about being a woman? It seems to me that, before you police a gender, you should actually be capable of representing it. Jesus H.

>>7888385
That's my point. The only difference between a TERF and a queer feminist is that the latter has positive feelings for transsexuals.

>>7880457
I was taking hormones for 6 months and got fired for being trans/arguing with my manger because of homophobic remarks. Now I can't afford another appointment to get a script and I'm unemployed.

That's on me for not setting up myself better whilst on hormones knowing it was eventually going to happen.. Blaming a single woman won't do anything, people as a whole will have to change over time but the lingering bigoted demographic will always be present in politics.

Transsexual stop appropriating other's genders, please. FUck you all

>>7894159
Feminists don't own femaleness.

>>7894096
>Don't blame a single woman who is responsible for healthcare not being covered by insurance
American transsexuals are like abused children who think their situation is fine. Your situation is not okay, and it is not normal. Hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment is covered by insurance or universal healthcare in most reasonable countries. The fact that it's not in the US is a tragedy.

>>7880457
why do trans people try to fit anymore. were all just fucking weirdos who just want happiness that will never come.

>>7880639
>>7880679
>>7880696
rekt

>>7881159
Actually terfs are the past. They haven't been taken seriously by mainstream feminism in over a decade and their history of working with anti-women groups just to spite trans people has really turned off newer feminists from eve considering their point of view at all

>>7903455
>their history of working with anti-women groups
Feminist star Clinton was bankrolled by a country where the age of consent is "marriage".

>>7903472
>Feminist star Clinton was bankrolled by a country where the age of consent is "marriage".

What did xe mean by this?

>>7903472
>Feminist star Clinton
I don't know a single actual feminist who likes Clinton other than Taylor Swift brand rich white lady feminists

>>7903592
That the only problem the law has with a man fucking a girl is if they aren't married.

>>7880457
>whine and bitch about some literally who TERF because you can't take titty skittles on the taxpayer's dime
kill yourself

>>7880457
Short answer: She's before the time of most trans people, and it isn't like we have a Trans History class or anything.

>>7903653
Janice Raymond is basically the most famous TERF, besides maybe Cathy Brennan. Also hormones are covered by insurance now.

>>7904923
She's still employed by the University of Massachusetts though as a professor, thats pretty fucked up tbqh

>>7904939
Michael Bailey lost his post over his book which was nowhere near as harmful to trans people.

Why was she immune to trans outrage?

>>7904973
Pussy pass

>>7904923
How about a trans history month?

>>7904973
Not sure to be honest, she has said some pretty fucked up stuff, maybe it has something to do with her biological sex, (I'm sure she would most likely projectile vomit out of anger if she read what i'm about to type) or female privilege.

(I don't think females are inherently more privileged then males, its obviously a lot more complicated than that but in certain cases like this one it seems quite obvious being female does allow a certain privilege to say and act in ways that are transphobic.)

>>7905001
Which situations are females privileged in and which are males?

>>7905013
Well for instance in this situation it seems like Janice Raymond is being allowed to publish writings that are inherently transphobic by hiding behind the guise of a disgusting strain of feminism, theres no world in which a man could say and act in such a way while also teaching a gender studies class at a legitimate university, at least in my opinion. So in this rare case it seems like she is using her privilege as an underrepresented class of the population to fuck over an even more underrepresented class, if that makes sense.

>>7905024
I agree with you about this instance but more generally what's the distinction between those two kinds of situation where either sex gets privileged over the other?

>>7905034
It's too complicated for me to say, I think often times race / socio economic background / gender / a whole lot of other things, all of which are often times influenced by each other but aren't necessarily the same across the board when talking about a group of people are important factors to consider when discussing whether or not one group of people are more / less "privileged" than the another. It seems to me often times when we talk about privilege and especially on this board people tend to focus only on one part of the many things that determine what makes someone more or less privileged than another person, which in my opinion doesn't really answer anything. So in other words I don't know.

>>7904973
>>7904976
So much for feminism being on the LGBT side.

>>7880457
explain to me why it's everyone else's job to keep you well? take some fucking responsibility for your own life you fuckstain, people hated LGBT in the past for stupid reasons, but that shit becomes pretty rational when you advertise your amoral political retardation like this

>>7880639
Radical feminists like raymond actually frequently team up with conservative christians against gay porn and depictions of gay relationships because you're actually ALSO raping women with your sex because it appropriates female experience and reinforces the dominance of women as weaker by copying/stealing the sexist relationship dynamic or some crazy shit like that.

>>7880598
There's a fair overlap with gay guys and /pol/ too.
Also both gay and straight guys frequently shitpost in lesgen because they're so easy to bait there.
I once saw a thread where freddie literally posted with his name up and admitted that he was posting the tranny bait in the thread and they STILL kept taking the bait.

>>7880457
She is a legendary feminist who has done more to protect womyn-born-womyn from the predatory incursions of male-to-constructed-female interlopers than any other.

Here is a link to her great magnum opus, The Transsexual Empire.
https://autogynephiliatruth.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/the-transsexual-empire.pdf

"All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."
-Janice Raymond

>>7910686
She is raping victims of actual rape by reducing their experiences to rhetoric for her bigotry.

>>7910686
Can't tell if troll or insane TERF that needs to hero.

>>7910714
>man demands that womyn kill herself for supporting a womyn who defends fellow womyn from predatory men in disguise
sounds about right.

>>7910714
Trannies and gay men are RAPING WOMEN with their perversion that perpetuates sexist gender norms!

>>7910887
Honestly cant tell if troll or insane anyone that says womyn unironically should kill themselves.

>>7880649
Apparently NOW it does. I'm just fascinated by the unending ways people who think they're doing good for the world sit around thinking up reasons why others living their lives as they see fit is an existential threat to their well-being.

>>7880706
Yes hello I was raped and I think she's a disgusting hag

>>7910936
>someone using wrongspeak is a good reason to tell them to kill themselves
Keep working on that 'feminine' compassion.

>>7911407
The ideology that word comes from has the blood of more trans people on its hands than any other.

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>>7911407
Females are compassionate is that a joke i mean this thread is about a bitch that cost trans lives.

Why do i get that shit from TERFs when ever you dont go along with their bullshit they say "typical male" etc? They talk shit about trans then play victim all the time.

>>7881046
9/10 chance that this is a terf trying to slide the thread and get some good screenshots for their femblog.

>>7911534
How did she "cost trans lives"? Do you just mean that some men made the decision to commit suicide because they didn't have easy access to female hormones? That was their decision, it hardly makes sense to blame the self-harming practices of a notoriously unstable and suicidal group of mental illness sufferers on a feminist academic.

>>7911545
>assuming people in relatively high places of power cannot affect the lives of others with their words and actions.

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>>7880537
>argues that transsexualism reinforces traditional gender stereotypes

This is 100% true though. Men who "transition" to a woman transition to their idea of a woman which is seen through the eyes of someone raised as a male.

My theory personally is that MtFs are basically gay men who have a strict internalization of gender norms so they feel uncomfortable acting out their attraction to men while in a male body. So transitioning makes them feel "free" and gives them the illusion that they are now their true self, when in reality they are just conforming.

This is also the reason trannies also seemingly paradoxically hold conservative views, for example Bruce Jenner thinking gay marriage shouldn't be a thing.

>>7911545
>it's not MY fault that they killed themselves because of the things I did!

>>7911555
Your post is all over the place, you jump from AGP to HSTS back to AGP and conflate everyone into one group.

>>7904973
Because she does work with anti-porn and anti-human trafficking groups, which makes her the darling of SCUM manifesto-era second wavers. Most of those old guard feminists don't really care about the heath or welfare of trans people. If righteous feminist rhetoric happens to steamroll over them in the name of their ideological progress... oh well. It's not like they're womyn.

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>>7911562
Homosexual men("straight" trannies) enjoy sex with men because they like the feeling of being dominated, it makes them feel feminine. AGP trannies can sometimes enjoy sex with men for the same reason but are usually lesbians since they are heterosexual men at heart. They are sexually aroused by THEMSELVES and seek to become their ideal woman whilst also seeking their ideal woman as a mate, thus the stereotype of trannies dating clones of themselves(and homosexuals too for the most part.

Both stem from internalized love objects due to neglect which has developed into a corrosive narcissism.

>>7880457
She should be spending the rest of her life in maximum security prison, together with her other high profile TERF friends.

People like that Andrea or whatever, who regretted her actions, could get away with heavy fines, in the millions (basically to help fund the money needed to recover from the damage she made).

>>7910276
It's rather arbitrary to campaign that both paid insurance and federal healthcare systems withhold care just for poverty-stricken trans people and no one else.

At that point it just seems cruel, like you're directly petitioning the government to make a single demographic's lives harder just because you don't like them and want them to either live under your strict political doctrine or die off in order to convenience your political ideology. It's almost like what feminists complain the current male-dominated administration is doing to cis women. But I guess if feminists do it to trans people in the name of feminism it's alright.

>>7911562
Is Blanchard the only acceptable tranny typology?

>>7911580
>thus the stereotype of trannies dating clones of themselves

What the hell, where did this come from?

>due to neglect which has developed into a corrosive narcissism

Neglect? Like from their parents or what are you talking about?

>>7880706
Rape victim here. Like actual rape as in the person physically forced themselves on me. She makes a mockery of rape with this delusional, histrionic bullshit.

How can someone "rape" you by existing?

I mean... WHAT?

>>7911368
>>7911594
I bet you are. Kek.

>>7911545
What's a few thousand poor people corpses to a rich, tenured feminist college professor? They would have killed themselves anyway even if they had healthcare, probably, maybe. It's just a little tranny blood, it'll come right out in the wash with a little bleach, amirite?

What was that about feminine compassion?

>>7911594
See how she defends Raymond's accusation about somehow 'appropriating women's bodies' by being dysphoric, but when it's pointed out how she and Raymond denigrate actual rape, it's suddenly 'did anyone complain?' Such hypocrisy. There's no way you're the only rape victim who would be rightfully offended by that either.

>>7911603
>assuming someone is lying about being raped because it doesn't reinforce your opinion.

Not them but you are disgusting.

>>7911588
This sounds like an extension of when mental health experts used to call homosexual men narcissists who could only date men because they're clones of themselves. This is the same logic that kept homosexuality in the DSM until the 70s. It's unsurprising that people like this are typically also homophobes against gay men as well as transphobes specifically against trans women.

It's basic radical feminist misandry combined with debunked anti-homosexual rhetoric (but just for gay men and not lesbians, who are totally fine and awesome).

>>7911624
>>assuming someone is lying about being raped because it doesn't reinforce your opinion.
Couldn't this be called rape culture?

>>7911603
I was raped when I was five. But please tell me more about how I wasn't just because I don't agree with your twisted as fuck rationalizations.

>>7911624
save me the moral outrage, people here laugh at people who claim rape all the time cause they're not on their team
>>7911636
i don't care what you say bitch, this is 4chan, what you claim is worthless.

>>7911619
They don't care about actual rape victims, or how much this sort of propaganda dilutes the definition of rape until it's some abstract academic concept and not the real, horrifying, and traumatizing physical experience that it actually is. They just like to use the word "rape" as a tool to be edgy and shock the reader into compliance.

>>7911649
>save me the moral outrage
Somebody tell that to the feminists! Speak to a mirror!

>>7911666
>he thinks i'm a feminist
kek

>>7911649
I'm a "bitch" and my experience with rape is "worthless" because I don't think trans women "rape" cis women by existing.

Thanks feminism. You really showed me the true meaning of feminine compassion today.

>>7911669
I guess you were just pretending this whole time, huh?

>>7911671
know your place ;)
>>7911677
don't know what you're talking about tee bee aitch

>>7910276
>Healthcare is amoral
America!

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>>7911555
>My theory personally

TERFs are hilarious.

Every other feminist group hates them.
The political left hates them.
LGBT rights groups hate them.
Their only remaining allies are the religious conservative right, and they happily accept help from these homophobic, anti-feminist motherfuckers, all for the sake of spiting trannies.
They, in reality, have zero principles.

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>>7880457
>mfw I've been shitposting about this fucker for years
>mfw I've been trying to meme "trans genocide" for years
>mfw feminism, due to its Critical Theory genealogy, is fundamentally anti-trans due to its post-gender teleology
>mfw Butler's Gender Theory was literally spliced onto trans/GENDER in the 80s after this Raymond shit
>mfw feminist allies are literally unknowingly propagating beliefs that ultimately invalidate trans people
>mfw feminism ultimately leads back to TERF

TERF are like the Westboro Baptist Church. Everyone hates them, but they're the ones actually following their ideology. This is where the ideology leads.

THOUSANDS of transwomen have died because of this woman. Think of it like this:

>The average lifespan of a transwoman is hard to determine, but something in the 30s

>This doesn't take into account the transwomen who kill themselves without ever being "out" (so the lifespan is possibly lower if we think more trans people suicide rather than turn into a hon)

>Janice Raymond got trans healthcare banned for about 3 decades (compare to lifespan)

>The trans suicide rate without transition is INSANELY high, usually cited around 41% in attempts (no data for success, but the attempts only counts OUT trans people so I'd bet the percentage of attempts is even higher)

Trans people make up about .3-.6% of the population. Let's use .3% for the lowest possible outcome. Let's say the US has a population around 300 million. That means trans people make up almost 1 million (rounding up).

All statistics around trans people are fuzzy as fuck, but with the sky high suicide rates and inability of people to transition and the culture of vile transphobia TERFs like Raymond spout, we can definitely guesstimate that thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of people have died because of TERFs. Legislating to extinguish the existence of people you don't like?

That sounds like fucking genocide to me.

People need to take this to heart and bring it up.

>>7917629
>>mfw feminist allies are literally unknowingly propagating beliefs that ultimately invalidate trans people

Recently the girl I have a crush on mentioned how she wanted to see Germaine Greer talk, cause she was speaking in town, and I just kept my mouth shut. I know she would have been receptive, but I just didn't want to get into it.

>>7917670
I'd go and see her speak even knowing there wouldn't be a single sentence I'd agree with.

>>7917629
>no data for success, but the attempts only counts OUT trans people so I'd bet the percentage of attempts is even higher
Could be lower too, maybe people who never transition and just live as their biological sex just repressed and had a long, unhappy life.

>>7922056
Very possible. I'd think with what we know about how hard dysphoria becomes to manage for people over time, it'd be easy to wager that more kill themselves at some point, mostly pretty young like not yet an adult and still repressed. Just like, I think any trans person who repressed and was never out through to like the end of college must experience fucking hell. Hons are hardcore.

>>7910578
/clg/ is probably the most autistic gen on this board

>>7922672
How so?

>>7898197
women do

>>7922611
>Hons are hardcore.
Good to know at least one person on this board thinks this rather than accuse them of not being trans because "A real transsexual would go ahead no matter how intolerant society is"

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>>7922755
They also seem determined to own status as a mare!

>>7922855
>"A real transsexual would go ahead no matter how intolerant society is"
Yeah, this is bullshit. Some people just hate themselves enough to actually go through with repressing for that long, but are either too scared or too strong-willed to commit suicide.Breaking down at hon age, idk, I can totally understand why a lot of them are weird. You'd be carrying a lot of mental baggage at that point.

I used to be disgusted by hons like a lot of trans people, because they were like looking into a nightmarish future. But now I just see them as people who've gone through a lot, for the most part.

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Aren't there numerous such hateable women?

>>7880623
being a woman is not some ivory tower from which to stone trannies

it isnt sacred- being female or male- at all and the kind of men women like usually treat them like trash anyways so feminists are just dumb. trannies are proof gender is meaningless and stupid and it will only get more obvious the more estrogen taints the water and women start eating roids

probably incapable of breeding and literally trannies are better because at leats they try hard to be something, cis women who are feminazis dont try

they just come up with arguments for why trying isnt real and why they dont have to work hard at anything

literally gender politics version of authoritarian soviet communists: the implied orgies are for women only okay mansogynysts.

being a man or woman isnt real its all words and ideas about genitals and sex which is just facts and they like to pervert those facts into something meaningless so its fucking obvious lets just do the same and voila gender is stupid fuck off kill yourselves

>>7880696
dude every feminist has been "raped" so of course her TERF buddies echo chambered the shit out of this trans hate

it was literally reagan admin that used her writing to remove trans therapies from medicare coverage

literally she wrote the "the learned protocols of the elder hons of xanadu" tract for TERFs and the gubment gave her a welfare check for her expertise on people she didnt understand

>>7910276
you could finance all the healthcare for trannies and all the chinese and japanese in america with tax money and guess what it would be fucking nothing because there's so little that it wouldnt matter at all

>>7923004
>dude every feminist has been "raped"
this is so "true"

and yeah, fucking TERFs and Marxist-Feminists. people just glance over this really nasty shit that's happened and pretend it doesn't exist, or even victim blame, just because no one gives a real shit about trans people but trans people. you tell a cis person about janice raymond and all this bad shit and how it's continuing in the rhetoric of people today, just in different ways, and they'll be sympathetic but it changes nothing. no feminist will ever, ever be swayed. it's just people who already hate feminists who'll even pretend to care.

>>7923004
>trannies are proof gender is meaningless
No it's the complete opposite. They are proof that gender is more than just genitals.

>>7924390
Gender = mind
Sex = body

>>7929618
Thank you for agreeing with me.

>>7929634
I'm not the poster you were replying to, sorry. She's had enough of the debate and vanished.

>>7880537
>The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male
Why do LGBT people think feminists are on their side again?

>>7911605
Typical male entitlement. They always blame society or someone else for life not living up to to their expectations. Tough shit tranny. Men act out in anger and call for the death of other people and say "OH they deserve it because suicide blah blah" like what the fuck. Get some antidepressants, make improvements in your life, go out and find a support group. Don't fucking blame your problems on your single mom, your teachers, the entire female population, like all men seem to do. Fix your fucking self. Get fucking help. Hormones can't save you you dumb shit. You're still a depressed man inside and even on hormones you make other people depressed by your horrific visage.

>>7938787
>Typical FEmale entitlement.
aka feminism