Why do feminine AMAB people often seem to dislike feminism?

>>7875443
because we don't want to be judged by what """Opressed""" identity we are, rather, who we are.

>>7875443
Why wouldn't they? Feminism is a movement by women for women, and the female privilege doesn't extend to feminine amab folks. Meanwhile they may even get demonized for allegedly having male privilege, despite it being tied to masculinity

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Because some feminists take their shit agenda too far and it turns into feminist supramecy. As a mtf I find it annoying and distance myself from it as much as I can. I don't want to be lumped into a group that doesn't help my best interests.

Not to mention it's divisive as fuck in our current political climate. I'm not against the original concept of feminism (because I am for equality for all) but too many people who identify as feminists can't even tell you why they call themselves feminists. In this regard it seems very similar to the BLM movement. I just want people to be rational and focus on real issues instead of their sense of social superiority.

Also fuck the power to the pussy protesters. Not everyone is lucky enough to be born with lady parts.

have you noticed this on 4chan or do you have any facts to back up your experiences? Because from my experience an overwhelming amount of irl trans women are feminist

>>7875443
Because feminists are opposed to men's liberation from gender roles.

>>7876256
This.

>>7876256
Based anon

>>7875855
>Not everyone is lucky enough to be born with lady parts.
>lucky enough to be born with lady parts
>lucky enough
>lucky

Lol. Love vaginas, but they suck when it comes to maintenance. Dicks are WAY better (Plus I'm automatically exempt from being pregnant. Srsly, Thx for taking one for the team ladies)

t. man with peepee

>>7877231
>Love vaginas, but they suck when it comes to maintenance.
???

>>7875443
You already got your answer when you asked nearly the exact same question with a different Mario game as the pic. We don't need one of these every time the last one dies. Fuck off, I doubt you are even LGBT. Shit, you're probably + or something.

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>>7875860
Wait!? there's a difference between 4chan and RL!?!?!? I thought everyone spoke what was really on their minds and spoke the truth!?

>>7877266
>implying this thread isn't just so the same feminist BTFOing in the last can continue

>>7877274
Um.... I was implying the EXACT opposite. This is the same feminist. Same writing style, same level of retardation, same FUCKING QUESTION, same vidya(different gen of course), honestly I think there are just like 2-3 max feminists on 4Chan and they just never shut up.

>>7875443
you're biased from being on 4chan, and probably other sites/communities with similar people. most males on here (cis, trans, gay, femboy, whatever) are more likely to be misogynist, just because anyone who isn't is usually bothered by those assholes, or at least don't want to get lambasted by a dozen autists for bringing up the fact that they're not anti-feminist.

most trans women and feminine cis males are at least neutral on the subject in real life.

>>7877328
"Most males on here" That's pretty big talk when discussing a site with no real accounts, no statistics taken, and oh yeah, sorry to remind you of this, but not all of 4Chan is /pol/!

>>7877336
are you really going to try and argue that 4chan is not overwhelmingly misogynist? i thought the whole "it's just memes, we're actually all tolerant centrists" facade broke down years ago.

just look at all the people taking it for granted that "female privilege" exists in this thread. even if they don't outright hate women, i would be very, very surprised to learn that more than half of this website's users believed feminism even has some kind of place in society now.

>>7877369
I am not saying it is just memes. I am saying that the loud is not always the majority. And being against feminism is not being against women. I am all for equal rights, but man, FUCK FEMINISM!

>>7877369
>saying female privilege exists (which is objectively true) means you're a misogynist
And then feminists wonder why people hate them.

>>7877369
>just look at all the people taking it for granted that "female privilege" exists in this thread.
You mean like feminists take for granted so-called "male privilege" exists, while denying female privilege?

>>7876256
They're really not though.

>>7877406
>>7877409
If female privilege is real, why isn't there an article about it on Wikipedia?

>>7876256
>implying men don't police their own gender

>>7877453
>smears men's rights activists as a misogynst hate group and shuts down their meetings
>opposes gender neutral rape laws in india and israel
>goes on constantly about violence against women and pretends domestic violence only affects women
>calls men who speak out against the current situation 'whiners', 'manbabies', 'losers', 'neckbeards' and gloats about 'male tears'
>claims to not be against men's liberation from gender roles
Actions speaks louder than words.

>>7875443
The only trans women I've encountered who actively dislike feminism are on this site. But yeah, gay men hate that shit.

>>7877453
>If female privilege is real, why isn't there an article about it on Wikipedia?
Please don't derail this thread into yet another debate about whether 4chan leftists/feminists are real or just trolls.

>>7877482
>>smears men's rights activists as a misogynst hate group and shuts down their meetings
Find a single case of feminists doing that to a "men's rights" group that ISN'T misogynistic.

>>7877493
Not an argument

>>7877516
Feminists call ALL MRA groups Misogynist with little to no evidence, so you're gonna have to shove that modifier up your ass.

>>7875443
Because they know they can't compete with cis women in their pathetic quest for straight cock.

>>7877542
It's called "men's rights activism" when we live in a patriarchal society, of course it's misogynistic.

>>7877516
That would require you to prove they are msogynistic first.
Also I noticed how you didn't address any of my other points, unable to refute them?

>>7877550
Not an argument.

>>7877554
Denying the existance of reality is not an argument.

>>7877550
> when we live in a patriarchal society
We don't.

>>7877550
Therefore your argument was so biased from the start that there was no point in you making it. You just phrased it the way that you did so you didn't have to immediately say that people fighting for men's rights were bad. You shouldn't expect us to be as stupid as you are.

Patriarchy is a lie. You are a useful idiot.

>>7877550
How do you reconcile your belief that we live in a patriarchal society wth the fact that feminism is a major and influential movement while the MRM is a small hated fringe movement?

>>7877586
T H I S
H
I
S

If this is not dealt with there is nothing to talk about. We shall hammer on this point until it is dealt with. ANONS UNITE!

>>7877564
Still not an argument.

>>7877586
muh men rule everything anyway so why would they need a fringe movement.

muh male privilege backfiring is why the MRM is hated, for some reason.

muh feminism has some tiny successes despite patriarchy, like making it normal to know extreme sexism like the MRM is wrong even though mostly the patriarchy continues unabated.

>>7877586
>how do you reconcile the fact that more people believe that fighting for women's rights will improve gender equality, while few people believe that men are oppressed in more than a select handful of specific legal and social areas?

>>7877586
The KKK is also a small hated fringe movement, but it doesn't mean we don't live in a racist society. Furthermore, feminism was originally a political movement that campaigned for the rights of women to vote, hold public office, earn equal pay, etc. So an equivalent movement that campaigned for the rights of men was not necessary, because men already had all those rights. You may argue that feminism is less necessary now that women have earned many of the rights that they originally lacked, but it makes perfect sense that men do not have an equivalent political movement.

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>>7875443
I'm a gay transman, and a feminist.

I think a lot of people say they hate feminism because it is cool to hate feminism. Just basic bitch bandwagoning.

>>7877652
I think that isn't an argument. I hate it because of things like "intersectionality" being a fancy new word for "racist," and their enthusiasm in shutting down disagreement.

>>7877616
Bitch don't you swerve on this! How do you reconcile the fact that feminism has far more reach than the MRM, or almost ANY social movement for that matter, with your perceived existence of a patriarchy?

>>7877652
Of course you are, you're just AAP straight woman.

>>7877671
>intersectionality
It looks like you don't know what this actually refers to.

It's just the idea that a black straight woman would have different experience to a white lesbian woman, or a white trans woman would have a different experience to an Asian disabled man, and so on. It serves to highlight the voices of those we don't get to here from very often. It has an emphasis on listening to people who have different experiences to the mainstream ones that usually get amplified.

The opposite is the bullshit white feminism, filled with TERFs screaming about how black men are planning to rape them all the time, praising Lena Dunham, erasing anyone who isn't wealthy, educated, cis and white.

>>7877671
> I hate it because of things like "intersectionality" being a fancy new word for "racist,"

What the fuck. The point of "intersectionality" is that it implies a less racist or classist form of feminism when compared to second wave.

>>7877652
>I'm a gay transman, and a feminist.
No, if you want in you need to give up female privilege and stop defending it. Otherwise you're just becoming a fifth column on top of being an oppressor.

>>7877652
>afab defends third wave feminism
what a shock
I heard water is wet too

>>7877671
it makes no sense to even argue that point

if i didn't believe women were oppressed at all, why wouldn't i think feminism requires a significant amount of social reach? it's like this anon said >>7877634. yes, today there are some areas where men are treated unfairly because of their gender, but those don't necessitate a movement as broad as feminism. why would a group who already hold a large amount of power in society worldwide need a large movement for the purpose of fighting for their rights?

>>7877686
Does this apply to anti-feminist trans women too?

>>7877711
Well, yeah. When you get treated like a girl for the first part of your life, while knowing you're a boy, it's dead easy to see how much shit women face in comparison.

>>7877716
Yes. They're just AGP straight men, or possibly gay men if they suck MRA cock.

>>7877712
There is no major power in society that aims to help men. Unlike women. Check your privilege and kill yourself, you piece of shit.

There is a severe discrimmination against men in every part of society, including legally and socially. You have no idea how good you have it. I feel the oppression EVERY SINGLE DAY and you dare come here and say that it's nothing. No one does anything to help me, hate speech against me is socially accepted, and I have no where to go to. At least if I were a woman experiencing this oppression I could join a feminist organization and tell men to kill themselves. I have nothing. Only discrimmination.

>>7877754
Why would it be so strange to imagine some trans people are gay? A lot of cis people are. If we've really just got the 'wrong' brain, then a whole lot of us would be gay too. And if being gay isn't genetic and is a result of how we are raised, then us being gay is even more likely.

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>>7877761

>>7877761
You know what you need to do?

You need to fight the patriarchy.

The patriarchy says men can look after themselves. It says men should be strong. Men should be the breadwinners, the providers.

The patriarchy holds women back - but it also rips out any safety net for men.

>>7877270
>implying common people visit 4chan
>specially the wasteland that is /lgbt/

the majority of trans women and feminine AMAB people are feminist and leftiest, face it.

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>>7877768
this, basically AGP and AAP is homophobic garbage.

>>7877761
>At least if I were a woman experiencing this oppression I could join a feminist organization and tell men to kill themselves.

t. future SJW tranny

>>7877761
You know what? I agree with you that men's rights are largely ignored, but you know what else? I don't blame it on women -- I blame it on the patriarchy. Men are taught by men that they don't need help, that they need to take care of themselves, that needing help makes you a woman -- a pussy. Anytime a man is caught crying, everyone just looks at him like he's pathetic. At the same time, whenever a woman is crying, guess who is first to ask them "What's wrong?" A man.

Women get less prison time than men for the same crime. Why? Not because of feminism, but because men believe women are innately innocent and too fragile to serve time. Women don't have to go to war (at least, before they didn't) and didn't have to do demanding work, like construction. Why? Not because of feminism (in fact, feminism is fighting for women's right to do those things), but because men believe women are innately innocent and too fragile to do either of those things. It's not feminism that's debilitating men's rights -- it's men themselves.

>>7877778
>The patriarchy says men can look after themselves. It says men should be strong. Men should be the breadwinners, the providers.
Yeah, it surely isn't that women consider such men undesirable failures.

>>7877754
Why can't AGP straights suck MRA cock?

>>7877814
Feminist women don't. Only tradcons do.

>>7877824
Men fighting gender roles is grand and welcomed.

It always seems, whenever people on here discuss feminism, that they have never actually tried talking to any feminists. They just assume everything they do must be horrible, and base their assumptions on that.

>>7877778
You can't fight something that doesn't exist. And we seem to have established that men fighting gender roles is misogynist due to supposedly living under a patriarchy.

>>7877834
>feminist owmen don't only tradcons do
So the people calling men whiners, losers, neckbeards, manbabies etc. and gloating about male tears were all tradcons and not feminists? I find that hard to believe.

>>7877834
>Feminist women don't.
Most women aren't feminists as you define it. And even then, that disproves what you said about patriarchy forcing men to success, since it's women enforcing it.

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>>7877835
>And we seem to have established that men fighting gender roles is misogynist

What the hell? Nobody believes this, everyone hates gender rolls.

>>7877874
They say they hate gender roles, yet men aren't allowed to have a movement of their own or it's misogynist because we supposedly live in a patriarchy.

>>7877797
Except they don't apply to homosexuals.

>>7877860
When men get angry about stupid shit, they will call them out, for sure. But they won't be the ones bitching at him for not having a high-paid job or for wanting to be a stay at home dad.

>>7877778
>You need to fight the patriarchy.
>>7877809
>I blame it on the patriarchy.
the patriarchy doesn't attack men's right's activists, feminists do.

the patriarchy doesn't shut down men only abuse shelters, feminists do.

the patriarchy doesn't oppose gender neutral rape laws, feminists do.

i could keep going.

>>7877922
>defending gendered slurs
Feminists confirmed for hating equality, and men.

>>7877778
I see zero proof of this patriarchy, but let's ignore that for a second.

If the patriarchy is real and against women and MRA's are misogynist women haters, WHY DOES FEMINISM HAVE MORE POWER IN SOCIETY? How are you so internally inconsistent without shorting a fuse?

>>7877901
What does a counter-feminist movement like men's rights activism actually have to do with fighting gender roles? Most of those guys are all about being macho and reclaiming the breadwinner role for men, like Return of Kings type stuff.

>>7877922
this. believe it or not, most people are capable of normal human empathy, and won't be a dick to someone who is genuinely going through shit or in the right. even feminists.

>>7877937
>the patriarchy doesn't shut down men only abuse shelters, feminists do
That literally didn't happen. MRAs have twisted the government defunding a shelter to be because of feminists. Feminists, in reality, had nothing to do with it.

>>7877940
Actually, no, I'm not defending that. If anyone in the intersectional community said something like 'man up' or 'man tears' or 'man boobs' or anything like that, they'd get torn apart.

> WHY DOES FEMINISM HAVE MORE POWER IN SOCIETY?
It doesn't. It's not mainstream. Any time a politician or business does anything vaguely feminist, it's a cause for celebration, because it's actually pretty damn rare.

>>7877922
>disproportional child custody is "stupid shit"
>men being universally ignored as victims in domestic abuse cases is "stupid shit"
you're fuckin garbage m8

>>7877942
Meant to quote you in

>>7877964

>>7877940
>implying terms like neckbeard and fedora didn't originate on 4chan
>implying calling someone a whiner for having a victim complex and getting upset over nothing is gender-exclusive

>>7877953
Return of Kings hates MRAs for being gender nonconforming and anti gender-roles actually: http://www.returnofkings.com/7877/the-mens-rights-movement-is-no-place-for-men

>>7877953
That's not really what they are about. They just want legal equal footing. I don't agree with everything they say, but most of it. They are pretty chill.

Some retards in the bunch, but feminists shouldn't throw stones as far as some retards in the bunch are concerned.

>>7877964
>Actually, no, I'm not defending that. If anyone in the intersectional community said something like 'man up' or 'man tears' or 'man boobs' or anything like that, they'd get torn apart.

Are you ACTUALLY suffering from Downs right now? Or are you just a feminist who has never met another feminist? Male Tears mugs are all the fucking rage! "White tears" "male tears" "cis tears" are used as actual arguments!

>>7877967
Yeah, see, if you knew the first thing about feminism, you'd know feminists fight the idea that women should automatically be seen as primary caregivers for children (real world example: shared parental leave), and argue against the idea that women are automatically victims while men have agency (see: patriarchy theory).

When men start whining about things like 'why can't *I* come to the feminist meeting and derail everything?' or "NO WAY THOR CAN NEVER BE A WOMAN STUPID FEMINISTS!' is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

>>7877988
> Male Tears mugs are all the fucking rage!
Not in the intersectional community.

Some people seem to have this idea feminists are one huge mass that all thinks the same way. Intersectional feminism is the way to go.

Of course, many prominent anti-fems realized this, and decided to brand intersectionality as something it really isn't - such as racist, because we discuss race - and sadly, it seems to have worked.

>>7877993
>you'd know feminists fight the idea that women should automatically be seen as primary caregivers for children
Like when NOW was against shared child custody?

> and argue against the idea that women are automatically victims while men have agency (see: patriarchy theory).
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're joking right? Patriarchy theory is literally 'women are poor victims being oppressed by evil men!' Not to mention stuff like Teach Men not to Rape, Only Men can stop Rape.

>>7877993
>Yeah, see, if you knew the first thing about feminism
SHUT UP WITH THIS

there are so many forms of feminism jesus christ

there are bad muslims and good muslims and bad christians and good christians and BAD FEMINISTS AND GOOD FEMINISTS holy shit

>feminists fight the idea that women should automatically be seen as primary caregivers for children
fucking who? some cunt? lots of cunts don't make a fucking peep.

How about this bullshit?

"Erin Patria Margaret Pizzey is an English family care activist and a novelist. She became internationally famous for having started the first domestic violence shelter in the modern world, Chiswick Women's Aid, in 1971, the organisation known today as Refuge. Haven House is often cited as the first women's refuge (called women's shelters in Canada and the U.S.), but at the time of their founding they only worked to help the mentally ill transition from committed life in a hospital to life in the outside world. By contrast the refuge started by Erin Pizzey was focused on removing victims of domestic abuse from their abusers, in an attempt to break the cycle.

Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her research into the claim that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally capable of violence as men. Pizzey has said that the threats were from militant feminists."

>open a shelter for abuse victims and literally pioneer the concept
>say most domestic abuse is reciprocal based on your research and personal experience
>FEMINISTS KILL YOUR FUCKING DOG AND SEND YOU DEATH THREATS TO THE POINT YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY

>>7878016
> Like when NOW was against shared child custody?
See >>7878009
We're not one mass. We all have different ideas of how to reach the end goal of equality. Check out intersectionality. In the UK, SPL was fought for very hard by feminists, and was considered a big win. Now, it is all about helping people to use it.

> Patriarchy theory is literally 'women are poor victims being oppressed by evil men!'
Sadly, it looks like you don't know very much about this subject. It's about women being VIEWED as pathetic and in need of help, not that they actually are.

>>7878024
> there are so many forms of feminism jesus christ
I'm literally arguing this point.

>>7878009
>Not in the intersectional community.
no true faggot indeed

>Some people seem to have this idea feminists are one huge mass that all thinks the same way.
Some people seem to have this idea that men are one huge mass that all thinks the same way and are they are all equally responsible for and brainwashed by a mythical "patriarchy" that controls their every thought and action in ways they can't even possible perceive.

>>7877778
And how do you go about fighting this "patriarchy"?
Feminists have been going at it for a hundred years and yet they haven't made an inch of progress. The "patriarchy" remains as strong and omnipresent as ever. What HAS helped has been going against gender roles and discrimmination. This has freed women from many of the old oppressions and helped making society equal and changed people's attitudes.
I do not want to wait another thousand years until the "patriarchy" may or may not be defeated, and all discrimmination against me suddenly disappears over night. I want equality now.
Would you tell the same thing to women? "Shut up about catcalling, you need to fight the patriarchy instead, then it will stop" when just changing people's attitudes can be done in a decade or two and help women NOW, not just possibly a thousand years into the future.
Fighting the patriarchy is useless, you get much better results in much shorter time by promoting gender equality and changing people's attitudes.
Just shut up about the patriarchy, it's just a tactic to stop things that could help men.

>>7878009
Yes, in the intersectional feminist community. The only rad fems who aren't intersectional are TERFs, and everybody knows that. And branding it as racist worked because IT IS. Anti-feminists didn't make me an anti-feminist, FEMINISTS DID.

>>7877964
I return to the Downs question. UN? Canadian government? New Zealand government? Twitter? Facebook? EU? Obama? Occasionally Hillary Clinton when the numbers are good? Bernie Sanders? A metric fuck ton of Hollywood actors? BBC? Is your head up your ass?

And before you say they are just paying lip service, that's most of what feminism is.

>>7878024
There aren't as many forms of feminism as feminists would lead you to believe. Don't believe people talking about the bad part of their group when they think Meninism is real.

>>7878028
>It's about women being VIEWED as pathetic and in need of help, not that they actually are.
But that describes feminism?

>>7878040
>I'm literally arguing this point.
yes.

to distract from the loud, toxic, and vile forms of feminism that rear their ugly head every single day on social media and various alternative news outlets. so that whenever they are criticized for the damage they do, you can go "no true feminist!!!" like a dumb cunt

>>7878024
>"Erin Patria Margaret Pizzey is an English family care activist and a novelist. She became internationally famous for having started the first domestic violence shelter in the modern world, Chiswick Women's Aid, in 1971, the organisation known today as Refuge. Haven House is often cited as the first women's refuge (called women's shelters in Canada and the U.S.), but at the time of their founding they only worked to help the mentally ill transition from committed life in a hospital to life in the outside world. By contrast the refuge started by Erin Pizzey was focused on removing victims of domestic abuse from their abusers, in an attempt to break the cycle.

i can guarantee you that she was not and would not have been an MRA. she might even have been...get this...a feminist herself

>>7878063
so no one can call themselves a feminist if they disagree with anything another feminist says, ever?

>>7878047
The patriarchy isn't about brainwashing. It's about multiple things in society being designed in a way to benefit certain people and fuck others over.

We usually mostly hear about the women being held back from the top. Why? Because, if they are vying for a top spot, they are likely smart, educated, and wealthy.

What we don't tend to hear about so much is the bottom end - men who are poor, uneducated, maybe not smart, who are suffering the opposite edge.

Patriarchy makes it hard for women to succeed, but also hard to properly fail. It makes it easier for men to make a success of themselves, but also offers little protection for them if they don't.

Examples: Old Boy's Networks, Women's Only Shelters, longer prison sentences for men

>>7878052
>Feminists have been going at it for a hundred years and yet they haven't made an inch of progress.
Stopped reading there. Absolute lol. Feminists have made a ton of positive changes.

>>7878065
>i can guarantee you that she was not and would not have been an MRA. she might even have been...get this...a feminist herself
what is your point?

she was a feminist who did an amazing thing for women everywhere and now she is vilified by the movement she initially championed.

she actually joined and writes for *get this* A Voice For Men. What a twist! So yes, she has indeed been redpilled by crazy feminist cunts who made her fear for her life for the AUDACITY of suggesting that Women are also responsible for and capable of domestic violence.

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>>7878053
Nah, it's not racist. And what, exactly, have those people and organisations actually done to help women?

> There aren't as many forms of feminism as feminists would lead you to believe.
There's at least two, and conflating them is stupid.

>>7878084
He's right though, why should men have to turn the other cheek and wait for the patriarchy to fall (which is never since it doesn't exist) before solving their issues?

>>7878069
argument:

>this brand of feminism is toxic and shit, it's also common and I see it literally every day, everywhere
>"YEAH WELL IF YA KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT FEMINSIM"
hey, faggot, how about denouncing that shit and working with me here. It's never, ever the case. It's always "AYCCHKCHUAALLY no TRUE feminist!!"

Jesus Christ is it so hard to say "that shit is vile and wrong and they should be ashamed for that"

WHOA WHAT A CONCEPT

>>7877983
In other words, they are tradcucks who want women on their pedestals, just without quite so much one-sidedness as feminists do.

>>7878102
Their issues are entirely the result of the patriarchy. Ignoring the root of the problem will help nobody.

>>7878084
They have made no progress in defeating the patriarchy. The positive changes accomplished by feminists has been through battles against specific things that are bad for women, not through some mysterious fight against the patriarchy that magically solved the issues.

Feminists fight against sexual harassment -> sexual harassment is reduced
Feminists fight against the patriarchy -> nothing happens

>>7878113
In that case why should feminists focus on catcalling and sexualization when they should be treating the root of the problem by destroying the patriarchy.

>>7878071
So basically it's a system that benefits few rich people the most, then women and screws over majority of men? How is it a patriarchy again?

>>7878119
> Feminists fight against the patriarchy -> nothing happens
Christ, just because it is a little bit abstract doesn't mean it isn't being impacted. Sexual harassment, for example, *is* part of the patriarchy. I think you should read up on what it actually means - it's not just some boogeyman to blame everything on.

>>7878126
Catcalling and sexualization are part of the patriarchy. Keep up.

>>7878127
Things can be classist and sexist! Who knew?

>>7878144
>Things can be classist and sexist! Who knew?
But if what you're saying is true then an average man is underprivileged compared to an average women. How can you reconcile that with feminism?

>>7878119
>They have made no progress in defeating the patriarchy.

>women presidential candidate won the popular vote
>no progress
are you stupid

the glass ceiling was inches from being shattered in the most powerful position IN THE ENTIRE WORLD

congress is full of women, there are women only businesses, women CEOs, the Supreme Court is 1/3 women, countries all around the world have women leaders, there are fucking women as ministers of defense for christ's sakes, which is like the most masculine dominated position OF ALL TIME like what the fuck are you on "no progress"???

Patriarchy is a male dominated power structure. 100 years ago you couldn't even vote and now you nearly shattered the presidential barrier. Shut the fuck up "no progress"

>>7878071
>Benefit certain people and fuck others over
So MRA's should be super mainstream? No. My bad.

>We usually mostly hear about the women being held back from the top.
Links or it didn't happen. Has to be in the West(which no, look into history and culture, does not include Russia) and in a time with high def color images.

>>7878097
Helping women =/= feminism. They are feminist. Though I would argue that everything on that list but Hillary or Obama has done plenty for women, and so do most feminists. Paying lip service and virtue signalling makes you pretty darn feminist. And before you disagree, show me the women's shelters you've built.

>There's at least two, and conflating them is stupid
Don't act like you know what they are! You probably think it is "Intersectional" and "white," you dunce!

Intersectional and Rad Fem are practically interchangeable at this point as not being intersectional would get you crucified.

White feminist is the slur by which they are excommunicated.

TERF's hate trans women.

Political Lesbians are often one of the three real ones mentioned, but believe that the concept of gender being societal means everybody can chose to be lesbian, though they fail to see how many holes in their argument that opens up.

There is one type of feminist I cannot remember the name of who are rad fems but pro-life.

Anarcho Feminists are weird as shit but from what I gather they believe that we have to abandon all governance as it will inherently be sexist. And this itself has LGBT variations.

Black Feminism is a movement that says white women and black men seem privileged enough, or at least more than they are(meaning that they are intersectional and racist, yes)

>>7878153
Nope, that's not true. Most men have more privilege. A few, however, have far less than the average woman. An average man working an average job alongside a woman, for example, will probably earn more, get more promotions, not have to take time out for children, will not have to care for elderly relatives, etc.

Compare both of them to a homeless man, though, and you see a stark gap.

>>7877652
>>7877732
I'm an mtf and I hate feminism.

When you get treated like a boy for the first part of your life, while knowing you're a girl, it's dead easy to see how much shit men face in comparison.

>>7878106
literally no one here is saying the feminist movement doesn't have issues. i'm not saying those assholes aren't feminists, because they are, and they can be awful. i admitted that.

that has shit all to do with the fact that women are still oppressed. sexual harassment might be reduced, but it still exists. and so on. whether you believe in the concept of a patriarchy or not doesn't change that.

>>7878159
>show me the women's shelters you've built.
Yeah you picked a bad fight here sonny. I am part of a group in the UK aimed at helping women and other social minorities in the workplace.

> Intersectional and Rad Fem are practically interchangeable
Yeah you know fuck all.

>>7878154
Woah woah woah! Hold the phone! I mention that HC is feminist and you ask what she has done. Almost shattering the "ultimate glass ceiling" is not doing something for women?

And popular vote, yet you say feminism has no reach, but you view Hillary getting that far as caused by feminism fighting patriarchy?

>>7878170
Homeless MAN. Homeless MAN. How often do you see homeless women? The division is pretty stark.

>>7878154
the person you're arguing against is an MRA.

>>7878176
Except, that's not true and you know it.

You would have faced a lot of shit when trying to be girly, sure, no denying that. But that's a symptom of the fact that society really fucking hates women, and you behaving like one pisses people off.

>>7878193
> Homeless MAN. Homeless MAN. How often do you see homeless women? The division is pretty stark.
That was my point. Can you read?

>>7878201
>But that's a symptom of the fact that society really fucking hates women, and you behaving like one pisses people off.
Does that mean if a woman is discriminated against for behaving like a man, it's actually misandry?

>>7878170
>Most men have more privilege.
Privilege to be the breadwinner least you are considered a failure by the opposite sex?

>>7878188
Mr Repzion, an anti-feminist, did that shit in Africa. Now what? Is he a misogynist or a SUPER feminist who just doesn't know that he is?

>You know fuck all
Note that I said "at this point" because not all Rad Fems were down with intersectionality when it was introduced, which was quite some time ago, but now it is a part of the feminist mainstream, as is being radical. Don't talk down to me when you cannot talk past your Downs.

>>7878201
IT IS TRUE! Men are treated

>>7878212
No, your point was that the average man has more privilege and that isn't changed by factoring in homeless men. But how are we more privileged if we are so much more likely to wind up homeless? So once more, speaking past your Downs seems to be a problem for you.

>>7878227
In what fucking society? Here in America most families have at least two workers to a house hold. Your patriarchy is starting to sound like a problem for the wealthy and upper middle class. Maybe that's why "class" is never one of those intersecionality sections.

>>7878201
It's a symptom that men becoming feminine is encroaching on something sacred. Just look at the whole bathroom ordeal.

>>7878065
>she might even have been...get this...a feminist herself
So what you're saying is, one single feminist turns out not to hate men... and she gets a hate campaign ran against her by the actual feminists!

>>7878201
Could you please not denigrate my experiences? This is what feminists call mansplaining.

>>7878255
why do you call them "actual feminists," and not her? how come you are so convinced that all the assholes are real feminists, while the ones who might be willing to side with you on certain issues are not?

>>7878274
why is it not significant that an "actual feminist" had her life threatened for suggesting that women play a role in domestic abuse, and is now considered an "MRA" by the current "actual feminists"

like...that's fucking crazy

>>7878290
i never said that. you were the first one to use the phrase "actual feminist." for the record, assuming she considers herself one, i would consider both her and the people who attacked her (who are in the wrong) are both feminists.

>>7878274
Why do you call Hitler an "actual nazi" and not the one nice nazi who helped smuggle jews out of germany?

Both men and women are objectified, albeit in different ways. When women are objectified they are seen as a valuable object. When men are objectified they are seen as a disposable object.

>>7878301
>people who are for women's rights are equatable to people for whom traditional family and gender roles are a defining trait of their political stance
>there is literally only one good feminist in the world

I'm a feminine cis male and I hate feminism because why wouldn't I? Feminists want to put cis men in concentration camps.

>>7877586
>>7877598
Not them, but it's because the entirety of most civilizations is nothing but a giant men's rights movement, there's no need for a second one. It's like asking why Straight Pride Parades aren't well recieved.

>>7877705
You don't need to have ``female privilege" to support feminism.

>>7877711
They didn't say anything about third wave feminism though.

>>7877814
That attitude is rooted in patriarchy. There is no reason why that should be a reason to support patriarchy.

>>7877901
We'd be fine with a men's movement, but the MRA movement as it exists today only ENFORCES gender roles. Look at all the redpill/PUA rhetoric they use, any man who isn't the epitome of traditional masculinity is a beta cuck, any man who supports true societal gender equality or thinks women are just as good as men is a whiteknight mangina.

>>7878119
You do realize those "specific things" are parts of the patriarchy? Let me guess, you also think the Normandy invasion counted as "zero progress" towards defeating Germany?

>>7878409
No they don't lol. Strawman memes help nobody.

>>7878932
>exists today only ENFORCES gender roles
Have you ever stopped to ask why that is?

>>7879025
Why should I? I oppose any movement that favors enforcement of any kind of gender roles.

>>7875443
They tend to be very aggressive with correctness and identity politics. Too masculine.

>>7878908
Why are you defending a man mansplaining to a woman?

I assumed it's because feminists always say they help feminine males but they haven't ever done anything to help them in reality.

>>7878932
>the mra movement as it exists only ENFORCES gender roles
[citiation needed]

>Look at all the redpill/PUA rhetoric they use, any man who isn't the epitome of traditional masculinity is a beta cuck
Redpillers and PUAs aren't MRAs, and in fact hate them. See >>7877983

>any man who supports true societal gender equality
>implying feminism supports true equality
AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

>thinks women are just as good as men is a whiteknight mangina
Those aren't anti-feminine male terms. White knight is an insult for a man obessed with protecting women, which is a traditional male gender role, while a mangina is equivalent to Uncle Tom or West Brit in usage (in other words traitor or quisling)

>>7881696
I must posit that protecting women is not wrong no matter who you are.....is it not good to look out for each other?

>>7881698
It's wrong when only women are protected, or when women recieve more protection than men.

>>7881700
Aye aye

....also, is not 'feminism' considered by some to be the propagation of a conspiracy against 'western' families?

>>7881705
>also, is not 'feminism' considered by some to be the propagation of a conspiracy against 'western' families?
By tradcons and some white nationalists, yes, but that has nothing to do with the MRM other than that they share a common foe.

>>7875443
trans woman and feminist reporting in
straight men are the cancer of society

>>7881852
proof?

>>7877814
Wait what the fuck is wrong with a man being a breadwinner or a provider? Nobody is stopping a man or a woman from living these roles.

>>7882113
Nothing is wrong with choosing to fulfull that role as long as they aren't heavily pressured or forced into it like in our current society.

>>7881852
>straight men are the cancer of society
t. "transbian"

>>7881697
>Those aren't anti-feminine male terms. White knight is an insult for a man obessed with protecting women, which is a traditional male gender role, while a mangina is equivalent to Uncle Tom or West Brit in usage (in other words traitor or quisling)
But any man who thinks women deserve equality, or have any redeeming features at all, is considered a traitor by the MRM, and also usually assumed to be doing it in an attempt to get sex (hence white knight).

>>7883122
>considered a traitor by the MRM
Citation needed. You realize that there are women prominent in the MRM, rght? Just go on YT and search HoneyBadgerRadio.

>>7883153
Yes, women can be prominent in the MRM if they accept that the woman's duty is to stay in the kitchen and never question their husband's decisions.

>>7883153
>>7883251
>tfw ywn be a qt sub mrm girl traitor to feminism

>>7883122
>But any man who thinks women deserve equality, or have any redeeming features at all, is considered a traitor by the MRM
Great source you have there.

>>7883251
When will feminists stop repeating this lie that MRAs are tradcons?

>>7883372
>When will feminists stop repeating this lie that MRAs are tradcons?
Never. It's easier to demonize your opponents, especially when your side has political clout, instead of addressing their points

>>7883251
You're an idiot. You build these strawmen and act like you've won an argument by just saying you're right. You seriously think people like Karen Straughan are pro-traditional gender roles?

>>7883372
>>7883425
>>7883433
Notice the lack of response. They know their shit has been called out for what it is.

>>7883433
>You seriously think people like Karen Straughan are pro-traditional gender roles?
Has she ever defended stay-at-home dads and boys wearing dresses? How do you think the MRM would respond if she did?

>>7883372
>Great source you have there.
The source is my personal experience. If you don't want your movement to be seen as scum, you need to take some steps to remove the scum from the movement.

>>7885202
>you need to take some steps to remove the scum from the movement.
Why don't feminists take note?

>>7875443
Because we're told that for the majority of our life we have these imaginary non-existent privileges by being AMAB, despite being relentless hated and bullied and rejected by every even slightly masculine man.

I'll just see you as what you really are: Just another fucking bully.

That's not even getting into fucking TERFs

It's much easier to just try to transition and get accepted as a woman to gain access to all the female privileges they had that they have been utterly blind to and have wasted.
The shame is that I'll still never have the privilege of giving birth.

>>7883110
>post yfw I'm a straight mtf

>>7885813
How do you reconcile your bigotry and your sexuality?

>>7885875
I can't help that I'm attracted to men
Do you really think straight women would be straight if they had a choice?

This bigoted retardation is still going on? The feminist who keeps posting this up needs to die.

>>7885917
>Do you really think straight women would be straight if they had a choice?
Yeah, they probably would.

>>7885917
The number of political lesbians answers that question.

>>7885917
i'm a bi mtf and i choose to date men.

>>7883064
You're clearly over 25 lol
No young person views these as gender specific or forced into that role.

>>7885202
>the source is my personal experience
In other words, you're talking complete shit and can't back it up.

>>7885978
Nah it's fun watching feminists get BTFO.

>>7875855
>Because some feminists take their shit agenda too far and it turns into feminist supramecy.
>some feminists
>some

>>7893304
Women having the right to vote and be financially independent is ``female supremacy"?

>>7895438
>Women having the right to vote and be financially independent is ``female supremacy"?
you achieved this shit 60 years ago

you clearly need to stop

>>7895438
Men wanting male domestic violence and rape victims to be recognised is male supremacy?

>>7895550
>you achieved this shit 60 years ago
There are plenty of countries where those things STILL haven't been achieved, even in the modern day. Granted, most feminists focus on the first world, but still, there are some feminists who still are fighting for those rights where they don't exist yet, and according to >>7893304, they're "female supremacists" for doing so.

>>7895691
Where did I claim it was?

>>7895691
You're claiming all feminism is radical garbage, and your only support is that some feminists believe radical garbage. Do you think all apples are green too?

>>7896632
Every single feminist wants males including trans women to be treated inferior to cis women.

>>7899199
Do you have non anecdotal evidence?

>>7878201
>You would have faced a lot of shit when trying to be girly, sure, no denying that. But that's a symptom of the fact that society really fucking hates women
Then why is it pre-transition males who face this hatred that's supposedly for women?

>>7904010
There is no hatred at feminity in women, I never in my entire ever seen a woman being bullied for being feminine or failing to be masculine enough.

>>7905412
How about the fact women have been oppressed to "preserve" that femininity? Look at other countries where women are barred from getting an education, work, and have no say as to how many human loafs they pinch out. Husband dies cus shitty 3rd world issue problems, and she's left with kids, no education, or skills.
Please educate yourself. I've found since successfully transitioning, I've lost a significant amount of respect. Men don't listen as intently, and don't hold my opinion with as much worth when I presented male. In privelaged countries, those sorts of things are much muted down, but talk to a couple of girls and they can go on for hours about how many opportunities they had to miss because whatever they liked wasn't "feminine enough".
Not hard to listen to others

>>7906050
You are right, but in this case they are being mocked for not being feminine enough, no woman was ever mocked for being too feminine or not being manly enough, I think the laws of physics don't even allow for that

>>7905412
>He doesn't know that women have been getting pushed into the work force for literally decades now

>>7906995
Serves them right for feminism.

>>7877474
This.

>>7876256
>>7877474
I thought feminism was going to save men too?

Women certainly do plenty of gender-role policing against men as well as against themselves. which feminism also denies.

>>7913666
>which feminism also denies.

Uh, no it doesn't?

>>7913732
When's the last time feminists took a stand against women policing women?

>>7878307
this.also there is no patriarchy.there is authority.and authority will flip sides whenever it suits them and support whichever they can be more close to and exploit.for the time being,it's women

>>7913760
There are whole books about it, I remember reading a book all about girl hate. There were a bunch of feminist articles I found just by searching "girl hate". It's a real thing.

>>7913864
>it's real but i literally can't cite anything

>>7913864
In which they blame men instead of accepting responsibility.

>>7881697
>Those aren't anti-feminine male terms. White knight is an insult for a man obessed with protecting women, which is a traditional male gender role, while a mangina is equivalent to Uncle Tom or West Brit in usage (in other words traitor or quisling)
But that's not how people use the words. They've become meaningless terms to dismiss anyone who disagree with them.

>>7913996
Do you really think feminism just blames men? Patriarchy is the established power structure that keeps men in positions of authority.

>>7913864
>A, as in ONE, book about it
>feminist articles
No, that's not a real thing. I could find better evidence than that for Moth Man.

>>7918175
>We hate Patriarchy, not men!
We don't hate gays, we hate Satan for making them that way!
Would you accept that argument from a religious person?

>>7918175
Yes. You did it just then

>>7877231
100% agreement

source: hab virginia

>>7918190
>We don't hate gays, we hate Satan for making them that way!
That's not remotely similar.

>>7918329
>You did it just then
Where?

>>7919101
You blamed a conspiracy theory about men oppressing women for the sake of elevating men. even though men don't care about men for the sake of also being a man.

>>7920692
>You blamed a conspiracy theory
Where?

>>7922267
Patriarchy is a conspiracy theory

>>7922860
Patriarchy is a well-known and accepted fact by everyone except misogynists.

>>7928238
>Patriarchy is a well-known and accepted fact by everyone
Not at all. Only feminists believe in patriarchy. And most people aren't feminists.

>>7928238
lol okay bud tell that to my boss (a woman) or the companys owner (a woman) or the local mp (a woman)...

>>7930242
According to feminists, if a woman doesn't believe everything a feminist tells them they are engaging in wrongthink and have internalized misogyny and thus hate themselves

>>7919097
They are the same argument.

>>7930231
Most people who study gender are feminists. They're the ones with the knowledge and experience to be credible authorities are the topic.

>>7930242
Patriarchy is a pattern, not an absolute rule.

>>7930357
No. Christcucks think that it is impossible to reject Satan and continue to live as a homosexual. They think all homosexuality is inherently Satanistic. Whereas feminists recognize that liberating men from patriarchy does not require them to stop being men. Christcucks see Satan as the sole cause of homosexuality, feminists don't see masculinity as something CAUSED by patriarchy.

>>7932158
>Most people who study gender are feminists.
The first thing you are taught in gender studies is feminist theory. Feminists are the ones who run the department. You'll never be allowed to see anything other than feminist approved literature
>They're the ones with the knowledge and experience to be credible authorities are the topic.
Gender studies is a scam. You won't find a department more intellectually dishonest.

>>7875443
because feminism is by and for AFAB people and they literally don't give a fuck about us unless we're self-flagellating penis-hating shitmongers like they are. fuck AFABs and fuck their goodie goodie tranny drones

>>7933600
>because feminism is by and for AFAB people
what about ftms?

>>7932383
>You'll never be allowed to see anything other than feminist approved literature
Or you could, you know, do your own research, it's not like they have men in black following you around 24/7.

>>7933696
Impertinent as the context was regarding the feminist monopoly on gender studies. All views outside the feminist orthodoxy in regards to gender are considered invalid. The "Myth of Male Power" was written largely using a feminist lens but was derided as garbage by feminists of it's time and in the present because it went against the grain.

Feminists are not hostile to girly boys, not one bit.

>>7932158
I am not a Christian, just like I am not a feminist, and know why? Because I am intellectually inconsistent. You guys back that same, stupid, "hate the sin not the sinner"-esque shit.

>>7933669
An FtM can be a self hating mangina just like a cis guy can.

>>7933794
Yes they are, on account of them being boys.

>>7933912
*I am not intellectually inconsistent

Modern feminism is indistinguishable from religion. Privilege is the analogue for sin, patriarchy is the all encompassing Demiurge/Satan figure, going against the orthodoxy is heresy, has sectarian in fighting ("white" feminism vs intersectional feminism), a clergy class that can absolve others of privilege.

>>7933912
I haven't ever witnessed a feminism saying anything bad about girly boys, please prove me otherwise.

>>7936645
Poison m&m's

>>7936748
???

>>7936645
I haven't witnessed saying anything good. Not to mention that any attempt to liberate men from gender roles is shut down as misogyny.

Another important thing is that feminists reveal their true opinions about male gender roles whenever someone opposes feminism, just look at the insults they use. "Male tears", "manbaby", "whiner", "neckbeard", etc.

>>7938762
>Another important thing is that feminists reveal their true opinions about male gender roles whenever someone opposes feminism, just look at the insults they use. "Male tears", "manbaby", "whiner", "neckbeard", etc.
By that logic the feminists are right when they say the vast majority of men are misogynistic, because men use words like those (and worse) when talking about women.

>>7938847
In the 50's maybe? I have never met a guy who talked to women like that and was viewed well for it.
Honestly, if a dude had a female tears mug he'd get beaten until he bled profusely.
Men hate men who hate women. If you don't believe me, look at the MGTOW interacting with people.
So no, not words like those, and not worse.

>>7936748
This

>>7938951
>In the 50's maybe? I have never met a guy who talked to women like that and was viewed well for it.
It happens all the time, they're not viewed well by WOMEN for it, surprisingly, but when they're just with other guys it's pretty common. Even if those same other guys would condemn him for it if he acted that way around girls. It's not that men don't hate women, it's that they choose to present this image of being respectable human beings when women are around. It's the whole reason why men don't like their wives following them around 24/7, they're unwilling to be their "true self" around women.

>>7938762
Feminists are unconcerned about girly boys, but they aren't hateful of them, making it simple, feminists don't help girly boys boys, but they don't harm them either.

>>7941161
>but they don't harm them either
That's debatable, it would be a lot easier for girly boys if men were were liberated from gender roles as well, but feminists are against that because 'muh patriarchal oppression'.

>>7941181
>but feminists are against that because 'muh patriarchal oppression'.
Do you have non-anecdotal evidence?

>>7941181
Feminists were never against greater gender role freedom for men, they are just unconcerned about that.

>>7943714
They do spend an awful amount of time complaining about unnecesarry gendered products.

Tho, it's mostly just used as an excuse to circlejerk about muh fragile masculinity. Feminist humor is pretty weird.

>>7943714
Why do they go to such efforts to suppress and demonise the men's rights movement then?

>>7944670
Because they seek to maintain their monopoly on any discussion of gender

>>7940202
>It's not that men don't hate women, it's that they choose to present this image of being respectable human beings when women are around.
And women doesn't do the same thing?

>>7875443
I'm a gay male, what benefit does feminism have for me?

>>7947786
Null

>>7947786
>I'm male, what benefit does making society hate males have for me?

>>7947793
>>7947901
It was a rhetorical question.

>>7947604
In ``women's spaces" I haven't heard women say anything worse than ``men suck and are annoying" desu.

>>7947906
>J-joke's on y-you I w-was only p-pretending!!

All I came for was a Super Mario World thread and you faggots are talking about made up words to disguise your mental illnesses.

>>7940202
I assume you are a woman, so how do you know how men talk behind women's backs? Honestly I don't act any differently in front of or behind women. I don't insult women as a whole. I think that they are pretty neat. Just like I think men are pretty neat. You are the one here with the hate baggage.

Stop reflecting it onto all of us.

>>7953484
>I assume you are a woman, so how do you know how men talk behind women's backs?
It's pretty easy to fake being either sex on the internet. I've anonymously participated in both ``men's spaces" and ``women's spaces" online, that's what I'm basing that on.

>Honestly I don't act any differently in front of or behind women. I don't insult women as a whole. I think that they are pretty neat. Just like I think men are pretty neat. You are the one here with the hate baggage
I wasn't intending to claim it was true of all men or all women, I was referring to the overall dynamic of what goes in notionally gender-segregated spaces. People like you, who don't have an antagonistic attitude towards either gender, are much less likely to seek out those sorts of gendered spaces in the first place. It was just as much of a generalization for >>7938951 to claim that men universally condemn misogynistic speech by other men.

>>7954582
What the fuck men's space were you on? MGTOW.com?

I am >>7938951
And I stand by what I said! Men don't like men who hate women. That is the overall. And I don't wanna hear jack shit from you about generalizing people when you claim that men hate women.

>>7954750
>What the fuck men's space were you on? MGTOW.com?
Some ``manosphere" sites, as well as places like /r9k/ (not sure if I'd call that manosphere, that mentality definitely has an influence there but it's not the sole focus). And yeah, I'm pretty sure most if not all of the people there aren't particularly emotionally healthy and shouldn't be taken as representative of men in general - but still, they are men, and we shouldn't pretend people don't exist just because they believe fucked up stuff. The majority of men might be good people, but that doesn't mean that men who aren't good people don't exist.

>And I stand by what I said! Men don't like men who hate women. That is the overall. And I don't wanna hear jack shit from you about generalizing people when you claim that men hate women.
My generalization was mainly in response to the stuff in >>7938762. Sure, there are feminists who talk like that, but feminism as a whole doesn't advocate those sorts of views. If it's correct to say "men oppose misogyny", it's equally true to say "feminists oppose misandry".

>>7954855
Manosphere doesn't represent men at all! We laugh about those guys! So don't say that men do a thing if THAT is your jumping off point!

>feminist oppose misandry
No, they fucking don't. They are the back bone of it. Every feminist theory out there is devised to fuck over men further every day.

>>7955093
>Manosphere doesn't represent men!
>But straw feminists and ignorant kids on Tumblr represent feminism!

>>7954855
>>7957214
When has ANY feminist EVER opposed misandry when the misandry benefits women?

Feminists are no different to white supremacists.

>>7957416
Give me an example of misandry benefiting women, and find an example of a feminist supporting it.

>>7958209
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duluth_model

>>7958209
Feminism has fought tooth and nail to prevent men from ever being considered good caretakers, preferring instead to maintain the current "women is automatically the primary caretaker and therefore should be preferred to keep the kids in a divorce".

>>7954855
>If it's correct to say "men oppose misogyny", it's equally true to say "feminists oppose misandry".
Men are a group of every man. Feminism isn't a group of every woman.

Feminism is a smaller group of people who follow the tenets of the feminist movement, which have evolved as time went on and the movement reached some goals.

Feminists who oppose misandry should not be considered feminists and should really look for a name that better suits their beliefs, as they oppose core feminism.

Feminism is not a race or gender, feminism is an ideology and therefore has rules. You can't just say every [X] is a feminist. To be a feminist you have to fit feminism, not the other way around.

>>7958209
You can't do it! You've literally admitted feminists have zero opposition to misandry!

>>7958209
Title IX. Women aren't interested in athletic programs? Cut male programs and funnel it into female programs. Women are now the majority of college students and graduates? Continue preferential treatment. Students had sex while both were blackout drunk? Expel the man, he should've had more self control. Any man gets accused of rape? Expel him, don't let him defend himself.

>>7958255
"core feminism" literally just means improving the position of women in society. Saying that anyone who fits that category shouldn't be called a feminist, is like saying a green circle shouldn't be called a circle.

>>7958277
How is that an admission of anything?

>>7958228
Please explain how that is ``misandrist". It's literally just a psychological theory that tries to explain why people become abusers.

>>7958604
What? It's a police model that says when a domestic dispute is called in to detain the man, even if he was the one reporting the abuse. That's misandry to a T, and feminists were the ones who created and supported its creation. Seriously, how do you post here with your head so far up your ass?

>>7958619
>What? It's a police model that says when a domestic dispute is called in to detain the man, even if he was the one reporting the abuse.
What the fuck? The article that was linked doesn't even contain the words "police" or "detain". All it says is that gender norms encourage men to want to feel in control of their partners, and that attitude can contribute to abuse. It's a theory that suggests a potential motive for male abusers, it doesn't say "female on male abuse doesn't happen".

>>7958604
It literally says only men can be abusive.

>>7958654
The Duluth Model has been applied to law enforcement procedure around the country. I though this was common knowledge. Anyways, here's more info on it: https://www.crimesolutions.gov/PracticeDetails.aspx?ID=17

>>7957214
Your analogy is completely retarded.
I am not a part of the manosphere. I am speaking for the general quality of men as I know them. The manosphere doesn't represent men because not all men are in it.
Tumblr represents feminists because most of them seem to be on there. I didn't say women. Stop equating women to feminists.

The fact that nobody else caught that saddens me.

>>7958779
It goes further than that. It's not like these tumblr feminists are pulling shit out of their asses. They're learning it from university. The people who are shaping the next generation of feminists are imparting misandry.

>>7958779
Where, exactly?

>>7958779
I never said that all women are feminists, or that you were referring to women in general. I know plenty of feminists who seem like perfectly reasonable people.

>>7958809
It's an extremely distorted and simplified version of what's taught in universities, the same kind of distortion that leads people to think Marxist professors hate America and want to put everyone in gulags. Tumblrinas aren't retards because they quote stuff from legitimate academics, they're retards because they quote that stuff without understanding the actual intended meaning, or background behind those ideas.

>>7961832
>implying universities AREN'T filled with Marxist professors that hate America

>>7958711
I'm aware that the Duluth Model is used by law enforcement, but it's used as a theory about potential motives for the abuser, they don't use it to say "women can't be abusers." I looked over the article you linked (albeit not in detail), and didn't notice anything in there about men being detained when they report being abused by their wife; if I missed anything, could you at least point me to which heading it's under?

And I have heard of cases of male abuse victims being punished by the authorities when they report the abuse, I'm not denying that that has been known to happen - what I am questioning is the notion that that response is in accordance with the Duluth Model. Everything I've read is that the Duluth Model is an attempt to explain the psychology of a typical male-on-female abuser, so it shouldn't even come into play until AFTER you've already concluded that male-on-female abuse is happening.

>>7961842
Most of them don't hate America. They may be critical of certain aspects of America, but honestly you'd have to be delusional to think there is nothing in any country worth criticism. The brand of Marxism that's prevalent in the humanities is really only tangentially related to the Marxist politics of places like the USSR - it's more about the philosophical side of Marxism, which is based on things like how groups naturally tend to form, how our perception is shaped by our upbringing/experience, and how technology and labor culture can lead to us becoming alienated from the meaning of our lives.

>>7961869
I don't agree with the model at all. Yeah, I'm sure talking to a guy about his mythical male privilege will make him a better person. Also, a huge problem with the law enforcement application of the model is that they apply it REGARDLESS of who's being abused. I'd link you a source, but all I'm finding is hundreds of anecdotal stories, and advocates strongly on either side. Can't seem to find a neutral statistic.

>>7961878
You say that, but YouTube is littered with videos of professors calling white people and men evil as part of their curriculum.

>>7961889
Some articles, like the one linked in >>7958711, seem to indicate that the Duluth model has been effective in rehabilitating male abusers, as surprising as it sounds, though granted the sample sizes are awfully small. And honestly, if they try to apply it to cases that don't fit the male-abuser-female-victim pattern, then the police are pretty clearly misusing the model. The model was never intended to cover those sorts of cases, it's like trying to eat soup with a corkscrew.

>>7961896
I don't believe you. Maybe they were saying white men have privilege, or that the actions of white civilization in the past has harmed people of color, but I'm extremely skeptical that they actually go around saying white people and men are evil. I've encountered what most would claim are examples of these "SJW professors", and they don't say anything more ridiculous than "nationalism is stupid" or "male privilege exists".

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MTF's and femboys hate feminism because they realise they will never be female, nor reap the benefits of feminism because of this fact

>>7961832
You compared strawmanning a whole gender to strawmanning a system of beliefs, which are wildly different things, and if you are let to get away with it saying all women are feminists and vice versa is an easy next step.

>>7961832
Tell us a belief you have that differs from the Tumblrinas then, if we are just straw manning you.

>>7962445
Milo/Quinby, Sensei Ishatamasu(probably butchered that), Gazi Kodzo, there are indeed a fuck ton of YouTubers claiming that all whites and men are the problem.

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>>7962445
This is what a Drexel University professor had to say. He later followed up by saying that whites being massacred in the Haiti revolution was a good thing.

>>7964894
>Milo/Quinby, Sensei Ishatamasu(probably butchered that), Gazi Kodzo, there are indeed a fuck ton of YouTubers claiming that all whites and men are the problem.
The original claim was about PROFESSORS, people who are actual authorities in their fields, not random people on Youtube.

>>7964937
And it immediately created a huge amount of drama and even got him fired, didn't it? That alone is evidence that his views are NOT considered normal in the academic establishment.

Because me wanting to get fucked by men is not misogynistic

>>7967890
Who said it is?

"The Patriarchy" is just a dumb term for how ingrained gender roles are in society. Someone earlier in this thread said that women are seen as victims, while men are seen as having agency. That's a blatant false dichotomy. The truth is, where women are seen as victims, men are seen as perpetrators.

It's actually fucking hilarious. MRAs and feminists are both fighting for the exact same thing, but feminists word it in such a way that makes men out to be the cause of the problem. Men have no more agency than women, it is just a *different* agency. Women can show emotion, men can be aggressive.

>>7967821
No. He kept his job.

>>7962483
I think this is true lol