What determines my gender? If I'm in a male prison and

>>7821282
Give it time
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

>>7821282
If you put a castrated man (chemical or otherwise) in a men's prison they're going to become prey for the booty warrior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9WClv4U5B8

>>7821293
Are you advocating we administer brain tests to people who claim to be transgender? If I claim to be a woman but a scientist says my brain is male am I not allowed to be transgender?

Do you think the cocktail of hormones trannies take has an effect on the brain?

>>7821298
Do you have to be castrated to be transgender? Lots of transgender women keep their balls and/or have plenty of T.

>>7821319
I don't really consider transgender people legitimate unless they're taking medicine to alter their physiology in line with their desired gender, or they're going for the hysterectomy or the orchiectomy. If they're not fast tracking that stuff, then what are they doing really--just talking. Now if they're under 18 it's understandable if they're pressured not to. Parents can be awfully convincing, especially when you're dependent on them. But once you have the right to make the change for yourself, if you're not doing it you're a special kind of fuck up.

>>7821346
At what point do you get to transfer to a female prison or participate in female sports? When are you allowed to go into a female locker room? After taking the medicine for 3 weeks? 3 months? 3 years?

>>7821361
I believe the Olympics requires male-to-females to be on medication for 12 months before allowing them to compete. They'd know better than I do, in terms of muscle wasting and bone density reduction and so on.

>>7821361
Not that anon, but I feel like 6 months is a good timeframe. It's significant, but not overly long.

>>7821372
>>7821376
How strong does the medication have to be? What if you take a light dose?

Do you think men who aren't taking medication shouldn't be able to use women's restrooms?

>>7821382
Personally, I think it should be based on whether or not you pass.
If you pass as a woman, I don't care if the person isn't even on hormones, she can go in the ladies room.
Vice versa, if you don't pass, I don't care if you've been on hormones for years, go in the men's.

>>7821382
Every person in the US should be implanted with a subcutaneous RFID chip. Trans people who have been approved by a panel of licensed psychologists can change the gender marker of their RFID chip. If an unauthorized person is detected in a restroom then a SWAT team will be deployed with orders to shoot to kill.
We'll pay for the tracking system by taxing imports.

>>7821382
Ah, here are the details:
>2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women's competition).
>2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
>2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete's eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.
Has less to do with their dosage of estrogen and more to do with their testosterone levels.

As for the second point, if they're not on treatment they shouldn't be using the women's room. It can be difficult depending on where you live, changing the sex marker on your ID. So I'm not really into ID as a basis for allowing or disallowing people. In my state none of this matters because "gender expression" is protected, whatever the fuck that means. The whole moral panic is on account of virile men preying on women. Well the whole concept of traps is that they're virile men who can pass as women. So passing doesn't work either. You need to have your balls cut the fuck out, and then you're on their level. Cut the feminism for a second and let's all admit that women are significantly weaker. A MtF is in that range after treatment, and if they weren't the Olympics sure as hell wouldn't be letting them compete.

>>7821417
Paranoid Christians wouldn't go for that.

>>7821418
Well, with bathrooms, there's literally no way to enforce any kind of "must be on hormones for a year" deal. You really can't enforce ids either.

>>7821443
Just tell them it'll keep Muslims out of the country

>>7821469
The only thing I can think of that might be useful is some kind of certificate you can get from a doctor signifying that your hormones are at female levels, in the case of any altercations with law enforcement. I certainly wouldn't want a woman to accuse me of being rough and indecent when I can barely open a pasta sauce jar. But personally I've never had any problems. Look like a duck, quack like a duck and people will treat you like a duck.

>>7821513
That's still retarded. A woman can accuse you of lots of things regardless of your hormone level. Not being physically strong enough to overpower another doesn't prevent you from breaking the law.
Besides, there's women with PCOS that have high testosterone levels and by your logic, they would be banned from the women's room.

>>7821308
>Do you think the cocktail of hormones trannies take has an effect on the brain?
Why do you people say ``cocktail of hormones" so often? Why do you love that word so much? It's too common a cliche to be just chance, especially since it's only used by you people who come in here and go on Reddit with an obvious agenda, ``just asking questions". Are you working off some kind of script your handlers gave you or something?

>>7821543
Well the reason I mention it is because that's the crux of the argument against letting transgender women, specifically, into women's rooms. The insinuation is that they'll prey on women, and the assumption or fear is that they're able to do so because of their strength. If they're on treatment, not only is it an even playing field, but with significantly reduced testosterone the famed male libido goes up in a puff of smoke.

>>7821580
And it's a bad argument because it's based on scare tactics and not logic. There's no documented cases of someone pretending to be trans to get access to prey on women. If some pervert wants to go in the lady's bathroom, they're going to do it as is. They're already breaking the law, whether or not they're actually allowed in that bathroom is not a fact.

>>7821557
What do you mean "you people"? I just lurk here sometimes and see all the drugs trannies talk about taking. If it's enough to make you grow boobs and an ass, or lots of muscle, it's enough to affect your brain. Drugs much milder than hormones affect your brain.

>>7821757
Yeah, it affects your brain, but the way "cocktail of hormones" is phrased it makes it sound almost sinister. What happens when you take female hormones is your brain structure changes to be more like a natal females'. Female hormones = female brain, huge fucking surprise, ain't it?
I don't have the studies on hand, but I'm sure someone around here does.

>>7821609
It doesn't matter to them. Stoke fear and offer a solution. They don't care if that 'solution' harms trans people, in fact that's more of a feature than a bug. So there's literally no downside to them.

Someone did a study that showed different arguments work for different political beliefs -- fairness appeals to liberals and patriotism/tradition appeals to conservatives.

>>7821609
Actually, there are documented cases. Not that the argument is really about that. It goes much further than bathrooms. It goes to women's scholarships, sports, segregated colleges, segregated prisons, etc. Look at Chelsea Manning who transitioned to avoid doing hard time in a man's prison (and for sympathy points).

>>7821787
It should be fucking scary. It's heavy duty one-way shit. You don't want to take that stuff casually for funsies.

>>7821361
the protocol is for post-op trans women to be transferred to women's prisons
here's a good article you may want to read (it consistently fucks up the pronouns, but most stuff written by anne lawrence does):
http://booksc.org/book/51171463

>>7821790
Actually it showed morality appeals to liberals and fairness appealed to conservatives. Don't make shit up. Liberals are moralfags.

>>7821795
She's still in men's prison though.
You don't get to say "Oh, I'm a woman now, send me to women's prison" and Manning isn't stupid enough to have thought that would work.
No one is transitioning to get "benefits" because what trans people go through is living hell.

>>7821805
So you need invasive surgery to get transferred? Do you think that SHOULD be the case? What if someone doesn't want SRS?

>>7821815
Why shouldn't Chelsea get transferred to a woman's prison. Do you not think she's a woman?

>>7821823
I think she's a woman, but if it was just say you're a woman and instantly get transferred to women's prison, everyone would do that.

>>7821818
read the article and then we'll discuss this
for what it's worth, it's intuitively clear to me that having trans men be post-op before transfer to a men's prison is the best protocol* and i see no reason to not have this go both ways
*it is worth noting woman-on-woman sexual abuse in prison is more common per capita than the inverse, but that does not make it not a good idea

>>7821810
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/02/the-simple-psychological-trick-to-political-persuasion/515181/
>for liberals that’s “harm and fairness (e.g. benevolence, nurturance, equality, social justice),” and for conservatives, “group loyalty, authority, and purity (e.g., patriotism, traditionalism, strictness, religious sanctity).”

>>7821800
>It should be fucking scary.
Why?
>It's heavy duty one-way shit.
How is it one-way when going off HRT will likely reverse the effects, since the changes are caused by sex hormones?
>You don't want to take that stuff casually for funsies.
Do you really think people do that? And I'd think developing breasts and becoming infertile would be bigger turn-off than brain changes.

>>7821853
Are you speaking from experience? I've taken brain-affecting drugs long term. "Reversal" doesn't really exist, the brain isn't a simple binary system. The best you can hope for is a soft landing.

>>7821874
You have barely an idea what you're talking about yet you keep speaking. Why?

>>7821908
I believe it's on the person who says that structural brain changes can be easily reversed by taking different hormones to prove their point.

>>7821874
I don't think there are studies of that though. There's few enough studies on what cross-sex hormones do to you, and it would be highly unethical to ask trans people to stop treatment because you want to see how their brains change. And then if you only took detransitioners, you'd bias your study in such a way as to be useless.

>>7821282
No you'd need a diagnosis, which isn't easy to get in prison.

Outside of prison you could lie to a therapist and get a diagnosis and if you're really lucky they'll put you in a womens prison. You'll stick out like a sore thumb though so you'll probably get locked in solitary for your own protection. Congrats you just made your stay in prison worse,

>>7821874
From experience, I haven't noticed much mental changes except lessened dysphoria.
But you seem to have some gross misconception about the whole HRT thing. The only thing that's doing the 'brain-affecting' are the sex hormones, which will feminize/masculinize parts of the brain that respond to sex hormones. And considering FTMs and MTFs show opposite changes, I don't see any reason why brain wouldn't return to normal.

>>7821298
I'M A WARRRRIAAAAAA

i fucking love this guy

>>7821958
Taking heroin and not taking heroin show opposite changes, but the result is not the original brain pre-heroin.

Interesting you haven't noticed mental changes. I've never been on HRT, but a lot of people here report mood swings and emotional changes.

>>7822078
>mood swings
>emotional
Almost like HRT makes you mentally like a woman.

>>7821282
That's easy. What's between your legs? A penis? You're a male. A vagina? You're a female. That's how chromosomes work. That's how biology works.

No, the appropriation of the word "gender" in place of "my current disposition at the moment" does not fly, nor should it ever be accepted.

I'm happy to help any more six year olds with their exploration of basic biology.

Also, I sincerely doubt a female prison would be better than a male one. Women are ruthless when they're not doing illegal things, or are currently incarcerated.

>>7821282
>If I'm in a male prison and I wake up and decide I'm female, can I immediately transfer to a female (cushy) prison? Can I play in women's sports?
Easy solution, stop having gendered prisons and sports.

>>7821795
>>>7821609
>Actually, there are documented cases. Not that the argument is really about that. It goes much further than bathrooms. It goes to women's scholarships, sports, segregated colleges, segregated prisons, etc. Look at Chelsea Manning who transitioned to avoid doing hard time in a man's prison (and for sympathy points).
Last time I mentioned Manning someone said she had documented dysphoria even before the leaks. Idk veracity though.

>>7823949
There are photos of her crossdressing before the leaks. So she has a history of gender issues. Not to say she would have transitioned in a different situation.