You've got it backwards. Trutrans can accept that their

>>7778208
true

>>7778208
HSTS, homosexual transsexuals, want to change sex because they're too flamboyant/butch to fit in and because they want straights guys/girls.

A*P have the wrong bodies for their minds.

you want to be a girl

no need to complicate it

>>7778208
you can easily get around the ethical quandries of owning catboys by using an uploaded copy of your own mind

I agree
also body dysphoria is misunderstood

HSTS only have functional "dysphoria" They want to transition because their innate femininity makes it much easier to fit into the female gender role, so they want their bodies to pass of course but they don't feel like they "should have" breasts or a vagina

Whereas AGPs truly have an (increasingly with time) mental body image of themselves as female so it causes them actual discomfort and dysphoria with themselves when they see their male bodies and features, hear their male voice etc. and it doesn't match the way they feel they should be

>>7778246
how do i jack in anon

>>7778293
first, get his permission

>>7778246
i'm agp but my dysphoria is social mainly and only a little physical.

>>7778208
The other big difference between the two is that AGPs transition because of a thought process that they're "a woman trapped in a man's body" and therefore must change their body to fix that, while HSTS's transition in order to improve their social/daily functioning (it's easier to maintain personal hygiene and care about clothes and talk to people and have motivation to do things if you're happy with your appearance)

>>7778485
>if you're happy with your appearance
HSTS's aren't unhappy about their appearances. They're unhappy that because they look like men they aren't allowed to be feminine and into guys.

How are A*Ps not trutrans?
In a genderless society, HSTSs would cease to exist, while A*Ps would still need to transition.

>>7778634
>while A*Ps would still need to transition.
Except transition removes AGP.

>>7778634
True
Yet ironically its the HSTS who also have feminized bodies alongside their fem brains

>>7778655
I think that was their point

>>7778655
I agree, but that's the problem with the naming in that typology.

>>7778664
Is it also the case with FtMs?

>>7778778
Havent looked into it as much but yeah I'd assume so

>>7778208
HSTS are femboys. They won't socially teandirion until they're certain they have their body at 100% and have the bdd under controll
>A*P have the wrong bodies for their minds.
Agp don't feel bdd and they're almost exclusively old hons. That's why they research all proved they're ultrasmanly boddied and shameless

>>7778485
>>7778269
But they're proven AGP are hons, don't feel bdd over being hons and they're overwhelmingly old and very masculine physically.

That's not compatible with dusphoria or being trans. That's compatible with sexual predator tendencies and no Dysphoria or shame over their grotesque hon bodies.

That's why Susan's can walk in bathrooms and terrorize little girls. Anyone trans and not AGP/hon would do the right thing and kill themselves long before

>>7778947
>>7778934
so younger AGPs dont exist? what am I at 24 then? I'm on hormones but I will most likely never socially transition

>>7778947
You're almost certainly AGP yourself which is why you get triggered by the idea that not all AGPs are hons.

>>7778668
But what's the point in transition if you no longer have AGP afterwards?

>>7778673
Why should an AGP etiology person transition if it costs them their sexuality?

>>7778977
Impossible, AGP don't get diseases like anorexia and BDD, there's even research from Blanchard proving that. There's also research probing they have very virile neurology and very masculine and very low 2d:4d ratios none of which are the case here.

Their immunity to those diseases is what lets them transitionand act shamelessly even if they seem like monsters.
>>7778962
They have to meet the ultra virile criteria like masculine neurology, low 2d:4d otherwise it doesn't fit with the models they've published thus far. Those were with fifty year old men who hadn't transitioned but there's probably very masculine younger people too

>>7779000
>Why should an AGP etiology person transition if it costs them their sexuality?
Because they also experience gender dysphoria? And losing AGP is really not a big deal.

>>7778664
>Yet ironically its the HSTS who also have feminized bodies alongside their fem brains
it's not fair ;_;

>>7779006
If you are HSTS then how GNC were you and when did you start transitioning?

>>7779006
I'm underweight, had an eating disorder in high school and have a 2d:4d of over 1 though

>>7779019
>>7779019
>losing AGP is really not a big deal.
Why not?

>>7779071
It mostly just drives you to do dumb (not harmful to anyone but weird) things sexually that you will always regret afterwards

>>7779063
That's impossible according to his theory and all the old AGP people aavick or whatever measured had the exact opposite biomarkers

They're supposed to be phenotypes so this is impossible

>>7779088
Had they all transitioned? Could be that being more masculine also makes you more impulsive and so more likely that you would transition as an AGP

>>7779102
But then they'd indisputably be hons and have football player traits and rock bottom 2d:4d.

>>7779084
All I do is crossdress and want to live as a submissive girl. I don't want it to go away.

>>7779116
Wait what are you even saying
Do you think being especially masculine is a part of the AGP phenotype or not?

>>7778947
No just the ones that got researched in the past. I don't recall Blanchards research ever specifically saying that AGP hons have no dysphoria, are extremely masculine or predatory.

The theory i've heard is that in decades past only highly masculine aggressive alpha types would feel brave enough to transition.

Nowadays there is a wider variety of AGPs transitioning.

>>7778962
Younger AGPs definitely exist, i'm one of them. Most of those old hons have had the condition since early puberty. Sometimes it even shows in childhood.

>>7779197
Mine might have started when I was 6
I read a lesbian sex story with pictures from a magazine and since then its been the only sexuality I've had
I think the difference between me and the older hons is that I found out what I was really early from the internet and can selfmed to pretty much keep it in check

>>7779050
I'd had bdd since early childhood and starved myself to the point of illness all the time because I was afraid of getting 'too big'. Was a whiny crybaby gay kid the whole time until the last couple of years in hs where I ran into people who'd sell drugs, got hooked and sort of became a theif its hazy. The drugs were really nice in a way, they fixed the Ana I had had since first grade, and they might have been bad people but they weren't judgmental so it was actually kinda fun.

It was the Deep South and had a very religious family that didn't acept standing out, they never helped with this and I thought very expensive therapists which is never be able to get were the only way to do this till I realized you could just buy blackmarket when I was 19. If I'd figured this out when I started drugs everything would have been perfect.

I know I can pass whenever I try and nobody ever thinks I'm a grown man BC the baby face and small body, but there are many flaws I can see in the mirror and I'd never socialy transition if I can't fix those things. I don't even like using long hair or wearing anything they could confuse people because that just worsens my bdd. I deliberately put in as many social ques for male as I can with my appearance.

Once I finish scrounging up the money to surgically fix everything that bothers me, then I'll consider moving. Until that playing some unnaturally youthful Andro looking gay boy is fine for me, that's my old role.

>>7779006
This is my first time hearing about the 2d:4d thing. I have ratio of 0.94, is that supposed to be low?

I don't really pay attention to the AGP/HSTS stuff so I fear I'm out of the loop on what all of this neo-craniological palm reading is supposed to mean about me.

Enlighten me please.

>>7779307
There's ethnic and relation considerations. Maybe your group has a lower ratio on average. How do yours compare to your brothers and sisters?

>>7779342
You're peobably measuring at the wrong lines look up a guide on how to do it and it wouldn't mean much unless you knew your parents. Especially if you're from a race that naturally has low

>>7779323
>>7779355
Thanks for trying to educate me, I'll look into it more myself and I'll learn the appropriate lines.

2d:4d=.99
trans poly lesbian.

"""""science"""""

>>7779469
I'm attracted to girls and my index fingers are way longer than my ring fingers, I think the whole "gynephilic = AGP" thing is kinda bullshit. Either that, or it's wrong to assume that AGPs will have more masculine digit ratios, or both.

>>7778208
wrong

>>7778230
>>7778269
right

>>7779491
This means there's probably traits far more certain of AGP status like neurology and masculine biomarkers and sexuality is just a correlation

>>7779491
>>7779469
I have a masculine digit ratio (.95), but constantly said "I WANT TO BE A GIRL!!!!" since I was 5.

>>7779170
this anon was raped as a child by a late transitioner, so she takes her anger out on agp trans women
she is hsts but also cripplingly bdd (in the actual bdd-chan sense, not the sense she uses where it's a synonym for dysphoria) and has not yet socially transitioned because she doesn't believe she can pass

>>7781280
stop

>>7779491
That's because it is bullshit and it's this board's favorite meme.

t. another MtF with girlhands attracted to women

>>7779006
>There's also research probing they have very virile neurology and very masculine
AGP's aren't masculine.

File: image.jpg (83KB, 540x762px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 540x762px

>>7781280
Too much of that is actuate
I can't imagine why you took the time to put everything I said in different unrelated posts together

>>7778230
but don't the first type of people also by definition have the "wrong bodies"?

File: mtf terf on transition.png (82KB, 582x524px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 582x524px

>>7786523
because you pop up constantly in any thread that has anything to do with the typology, agp in general, etc and it's given me the ability to recognize your posts on site
it's no weirder than how i knew so much about cara in the early days of her /tttt/ stardom
>>7778208
more on topic -- there is no 'trutrans' in that there are people in both categories who fit the 'trutrans' stereotype and people who don't
pic demi-related

>>7786562
I'm confused, this person is obviously AGP and has lots of AGP skeletons but keeps acting as if they're not.

>>7786559
No, they have the wrong social expectations.

>>7786562
And speaking about skeletons, I'm lucky I'm semi normal Irl. Worst thing that could happen with blackmail if someone found out by freak luck is getting outed and having all the hateful stuff I say made public.
Lucky I don't go around dropping trails between this place and that.

>>7778208
AGPs are fetishists
Tru-Trans people go as far as they can to change things to fight dysphoria.
What you're describing is repressed spooked trannies of either type

>>7786728
It's a terrible idea to socially transition unless you've got everything at 100%, it's just wrong on some visceral level.

>>7786728
HSTS don't experience dysphoria. They just don't fit in as men.

>>7786562
>I've always said, in contrast to antiquated terminology, it's the AGPs who are closer to "true trans" --- they actually *want* to be women.
They don't really want to be women though or transition wouldn't remove AGP.

>>7791902
>>7778655
It doesn't though. It just dulls it a bit so you can just experience it during sexy time and don't need to fap 10 times a day

>>7791951
That sounds like just a lower sex drive, but some have reported AGP itself going away.

>>7792407
Well saying it goes away for some is way different than saying it goes away for everyone

>>7792529
How do you get to keep it with transition?

Even when taking hormones the hormone values are not the same as in a woman. From estrogen to prolactin, to blood thickness. Estrogen mimeckers dont create the authentic chemistry. Look at halflife charts its a rollercoaster never stable. The chmistry of being a man all those years has shaped the brain neurological pathways. So your brain will never be truely women. Bone density is another one. As an adult bones fuse. Your bones would have fused differently if you were originaly a natural woman. No womb no ovaries no pms and menstrual cramps. Stuff that adds to the female experience and things that relate to real women which you cab never experience. The ability or knowledge that you can procreate and hold life in your womb. Even if you dont want kids. Just knowing this makes part of the female psyche.

>>7792669
>The chmistry of being a man all those years has shaped the brain neurological pathways. So your brain will never be truely women.
Thank God for that!

>>7792597
Uh chance? I never thought anyone actually lost it completely

>>7792744
Some say they do and maybe others will in time. Not worth the risk.

>>7779226
Ok mine was either 10 or 11 when I started reading porno mags. I wanted to be a lesbian because it was so hot. There could of been precursors that I can't remember. That was around 1995 so there was no reddit/4chan trannies on the Internet to convince me to transition. I actually had a huge mental block about transgenderism for a long time and thought I was just a guy who wanted to crossdress. Lucky for me I have enough heterosexuality to "compete" with my AGP.

>>7778230
>>7778269

So what are you if you have both of those?

>>7794271
hsts
i have spent a lot of time trying to explain the typology to /tttt/ and...well, this is progress
of a sort
but 'extreme gender nonconformity in natal sex + crushing sex dysphoria' is the most severe presentation of hsts transsexualism, yes

>>7794280
What's the severe presentation of A*P then?

>>7799218
jacking off to sissy hypno in your girlfriend's ill fitting panties

>>7799218
'extreme attraction to an idealized cross-sex self image + crushing sex dysphoria'
most trans people, hsts or a*p, do not fit the most severe presentation of their condition

>>7799278
Surely the more extreme the AGP the less likely there would be a girlfriend?

>>7799295
What are the moderate and minor presentations of HSTS and AGP?

>>7799300
you can't really name moderate/minor presentations because people can have any given combination within them
for instance, i'm a hsts man with extreme sex and gender dysphoria and the innate nonconformity-in-natal-sex that comes with the hsts presentation. i am much more dysphoric than the average trans person of either type, but i was notably less gnc pre-transition than the stereotypical hsts -- i fit much better into the male gender role in every way than the female, but i still had, for instance, friends who are now gender-conforming straight cis women who were bigger tomboys than me in our childhoods. that makes that aspect of my hsts presentation more mild, but combined with the dysphoria severity it works out pretty average. on the opposite end of the spectrum, blaire white was so gnc as a man that there is no perceptible difference between her pre- and post-transition gender presentations, but much less dysphoric than the average trans person of either type.

>>7799313
I see. It's not really "severe" and "less severe" but "lots of presentations" and "just a few presentations". Right?

Should dysphoria severity be the deciding factor in whether or not to transition then, regardless of how many other presentations there are?

>>7799318
>I see. It's not really "severe" and "less severe" but "lots of presentations" and "just a few presentations". Right?
yeah, that's one way of looking at it
>Should dysphoria severity be the deciding factor in whether or not to transition then, regardless of how many other presentations there are?
since discovering the detransitioner community, i have spent a lot of time going back and forth on how much dysphoria severity matters as a determinant of transition necessity. past a certain point of dysphoria not-transitioning isn't a viable option, but there are social pressures involved that result in people experiencing that degree of dysphoria -- if you're repeatedly told your options are transition or suicide, they will eventually become so. it's also easy for a lot of people to confuse other unwanted mental states of theirs for gender dysphoria (especially if they also experience mild a*p, gender nonconformity, or both) and promptly make a mistake that they only recognize as a mistake a few years down the line.

>>7799333
Nice digits.

What is the right thing to do then if dysphoria gets exaggerated through social influences like the trans community and through misinterpreting other mental issues as dysphoria?

What actually is dysphoria, considering those two problems with identifying it?

>>7786750
define 100%

i can go for 100% physically but if i do my voice it'll basically be socially transitioning anyway