Hey /lgbt/. I've been browsing 4chan for years but have

>>7757439
1) yes. Their is a pretty wide spectrum of political posters here. And definitely notable crossover with /pol/.

2) see 1

3) this is a loaded and senseless question

4) people love to feel oppressed. Self pity is addictive

>>7757439
>1. Are there any LGBT libertarians/conservatives that browse/post here?

yes and theyre either larpers or genuine retards

>2. Are there any LGBT people that get tired of the identity politics and Cultural Marxist crap that spews from the left?
>identity politics being exclusive to the left
>cultural marxism conspiracy
lol

>3. Do you believe people have rights because their individuals or because they belong to some arbitrary group?

loaded question

>4. Why does the LGBT community seem to constantly seek and validation and approval from others even when we have marriage equality?

because LGBT people are still oppressed, demonized and marginalized all over the world, and even if they let their guard down for a second they'll lose it all.

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>>7757503
>yes and theyre either larpers or genuine retards

>>7757439
1.Yes. LGBT is not a monolith.
2. Yes. LGBT is not a monolith.
3. Individual rights not group rights, but the question is loaded.
4. Define "LGBT" community. Once again, not a monolith.

>>7757439
1) I assume that such people exist. As for me, I don't know what the hell I am, but I'm certainly not what you would call a "liberal"

2) As with question number 1, there's at least me.

3) I'm for individual rights. If I may add, I think any person should have the right to do anything as longs as doesn't jeopardize the well-being of others. I, most likely, don't know how the world works, so I implore you not to behead me for this opinion.

4) I assume that this happens because LGBT population is still (mostly) looked down upon. The West seems generally accepting of the LGBT population from my point of view, but I can't say for sure. I'm not exactly from the "West", but I'm not from the country where homosexuality is a criminal act either. You can, however, expect some degree of discrimination and physical violence if you're openly non-heterosexual here. Reporting such things to the police would be akin to social suicide and probably ineffective, since the police might refuse to take appropriate actions, which could, of course, be taken to court where you can potentially experience even more publicity and even more discrimination which goes on like a spiral. I apologize for turning this into a personal rant. So, to make a long story short: I don't want marriage equality, I just want people not to care about my sexual preference and I don't want to constantly fear discrimination because of it, let alone experience it. Are demonstrations of any kind necessary - yes. Are they being carried out in the right manner - I would say "no".

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>>7757439
>mind if I ask a few questions
>said questions are loaded and/or injected with bias

>>7757439
>1. Are there any LGBT libertarians/conservatives that browse/post here?
Yes, lots of edgy fucks like this around on this board, you will find plenty of good company on here and on /pol/

>2. Are there any LGBT people that get tired of the identity politics and Cultural Marxist crap that spews from the left?
Probably, it's usually the same edgy fucks described in question 1. The low-self esteem and desire to seem unique make for excellent motivation in becoming a GSM right-winger.

>3. Do you believe people have rights because their individuals or because they belong to some arbitrary group?
What a dumb loaded question.
I think that SJW are absolutely right in most of the claims they make regarding GSM people.

>4. Why does the LGBT community seem to constantly seek and validation and approval from others even when we have marriage equality?
Marriage equality is just some stupid legal thing on paper and means little to the lived experiences of all of the GSM folks that have to deal with all sorts of social issues, especially the ones that are young, poor and non-white

>>7757439
>Milo Yiannopolous pic
>do right wing Homosassa exist?
>something about le ebil Marxism
>why are you guys so shitty even though I don't know any of you?

2014 wants its threads back.

Yes
Yes
Both, I guess. Like we have rights as Americans others do not have but also rights based on other things.
The same reasons anyone else does cos marriage equality is not an endgame

>>7757831
The fuck is GSM?
And I like how others believing in their lived experience is edge but when you do it you are right?

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>2017
>Not being a gay marxist

>>7757859
>The fuck is GSM?
Gender and sexual minorities.
>And I like how others believing in their lived experience is edge but when you do it you are right?
What did he mean by this?

>>7757859
GSM = gender and sexual minorities I prefer using that term because it's very comprehensive and doesn't require an indefinite extension of letters

As for your other question, it's not really about right or wrong as much as it is about what should be done, and in my view supporting marginalized people is the correct course of action.
The other side you're describing is not really people making claims about their lived experience as much as they are making claims about society in general and the direction they think it should go towards, usually something along the lines of conservative traditional values, anti-democratic, increased hierarchy, subjugation, less accountability disguised as "freedom", believing in conspiracy theories (cultural Marxism), etc.

If they were actually talking about their lives that would be quite a different matter

>>7757887
Because Communism never leads to mass starvation.
Good job!

>>7757899
Actually communism has never happened before. You're thinking of Marxist-Leninist socialist states.

>>7757893
I am hugely anti-SJW because of my lived experiences. I have experienced the things they talk about not working.
>>7757897
I would actually much rather talk about the world than my own life. My own life sucks, for a lot of reasons, and it has lead to me holding certain beliefs, but I would rather explain the rationale behind those beliefs than use a sob story.

I don't think that Cultural Marxism is a conspiracy theory as much as it is a silly and creepy way of saying "Identity Politics."

And I feel far more marginalized as a white male than I do as a "GSM."

>>7757922
Woah there anon, are you actually trying to use logic and common sense?

>>7757940
well, that and dialectical materialism.

>>7757934
By any chance do your lived experiences that've made you 'hugely anti-SJW' primarily involve being told things on the internet?

>>7757922
Yeah and we have never seen "real" Shariah either. Doesn't it bother you at least a little bit that every attempt at your "real Communism" leads to a blood bath? It's almost like it is a horrible path leading to a fake heaven! I personally believe in a mixed economy, libertarian and socialist versions of nearly everything, though I believe there are some things that need to be just one or the other.

I sure as Hell hope you didn't think you had just hit me with something I hadn't heard before.

>>7757922
>communism has never happened before
And never will, because it is not possible. It is

>>7757439
1. I'm centrist and count Libertarians as allies
2. Tired? It's entertaining albeit alienating
3. We have rights because upstanding individuals throught history have fought for them therefore it is because one is born into an arbitrary group. Altruism has given us rights..
4. To my knowledge, this is a relatively new concept. For the most part I think homosexuals in the past were happy enough to not be apart of society.

>>7757899
First off this >>7757922 but also you need to recognize that literally every single attempt at socialist revolution has been thwarted by violent capitalist forces against it. The demands of economic domination via private property and "free" trade have been the main causes of the failures of SA countries. Americans thinks that people don't prefer socialism so much that whenever they do they need to be violently stopped

>>7757934
>I am hugely anti-SJW because of my lived experiences. I have experienced the things they talk about not working.
Oh really? such as what exactly?

>And I feel far more marginalized as a white male than I do as a "GSM."
I think that's pretty silly and would urge you to reconsider your media consumption. As far as I know the only time this sort of thing happens is when white guys spend entirely too much time seeking out content online that is challenging to their status, it doesn't really translate into daily functioning. Also I reckon that at least some of what people describe as marginalization is actually much more the result of class divisions than it is just being your race/sex.
Still I would really love it if you could provide us with just 1-2 examples of times you've genuinely felt marginalized in real life situations such as school/work

>>7757955
No, actually.
As a male who was raped by a female the feminists didn't have my back.
I cut myself from the stress and when my middle school had classes on self injury they made it very clear cutting was a female issue.
When I called authorities about my abuse they said that teenage boys were not a priority.
Male privilege is pure bull shit. Rape culture is pure bull shit. I have experienced literally nothing that they say is true for the majority of LGBT people, and most LGBT people I know have similar stories of these tragedies not coming to pass, but a lot of white males I know have similar stories with similar horrors.

>>7757985
Here ya go.
>>7757986

>>7757986
Well shit anon, that fucking sucks. Sorry to hear about it, I genuinely hope you're getting some help for your cutting. I used to have a problem with it myself. I can't say I ever heard of cutting being a female issue, but I guess I've met better people in my life when it comes to the subject.

You're dead wrong about male privilege and rape culture though. Their existence is not to tell us that because we're white guys none of the shit we've been through matters.

>>7758018
I got over it. I am not exactly healthy, I smoke, vape, hookah, smoke cigars, and really do anything but dip to get chemicals in my body.

I am not saying that it means that my issues don't matter, I am saying that if male privilege and rape culture were real I wouldn't have gone through those things.

And I am not an MRA. I think they are right that we get a raw deal, but I think focusing on what is against me would be deeply unhealthy.I am actively anti-SJW because I fear that if they keep claiming I am privileged what little scraps I can pick here and there will be taken from me in the name of equality.

You can call me paranoid, but from my perspective, is it that crazy?

>>7757986
Okay those are fair examples of pretty terrible situations and I genuinely feel sorry that you experienced that.

I think that it's not really fair to say that those things are a *result* of anything to do with feminism or SJWs more generally, as I'm sure that an honest evaluation of what you've described would only elicit compassion. I know that there's this meme that feminism does nothing for men and in some instances that is the case but there are some of them out there that have made serious attempts at exposing precisely the sorts of stigmatization you've described, trying to remove the idea that guys can't suffer from those things.

The thing is, what you are describing is entirely within the confines of a sexist society. The manifestation of the treatment you received (especially from the authority structure i.e. police) is exactly what you would expect from a culture which thinks that women are weak and men are strong - the same ideas which feminists actively oppose (even if they focus much more on the former than the latter). People assuming that a man is not emotionally vulnerable and a potential target of abuse is NOT due to SJWs doing anything it is entirely because of the sexist ideology embedded within our social institutions.

>>7758049
>I am saying that if male privilege and rape culture were real I wouldn't have gone through those things
But that's not what 'male privilege' is. You are basing your ideas on what is effectively a strawman, the notion that being privileged = being always catered to is patently false. This is not at all what feminists mean when they use the term, which usually refers to various types of things you *don't* have to deal with when you are not a woman, as well as various cultural assumptions which put you into a position of authority more quickly. There is a lot of research on this and I won't bother pointing all of it out but your ideas surrounding what privilege is are quite incorrect

back to /pol/ and take your cucked ideology with you tbrphwyf

>>7758049
Yeah, it is a bit crazy.

You say "I think they are right that we get a raw deal" and the say that male priviledge isn't real, those things are contradictions. Once again, 'male privilege' doesn't mean none of the shit we've been through matters. Male privilege doesn't mean men are privileged in all walks of life, and male privilege certainly doesn't mean men can't raped and men aren't victims of self harm. The same goes for rape culture. In fact, rape culture encompasses the rape of men and how there are thousands of cases of it not being considered or laughed at simply because the victim is male.

>>7757899
Socialism does not imply Communism. And none of the "Communist" states that exist now or have ever existed actually follow the template laid out in the Communist Manifesto. Marx saw Communism as the next state of human existence after industrialization, yet "Communist" countries were all predominantly rural at the time of their respective Communist revolutions.

>>7757957
> Doesn't it bother you at least a little bit that every attempt at your "real Communism" leads to a blood bath?
How many Third World revolutions don't end up being bloody?

>>7758071
>trying to remove the idea that guys can't suffer from those things
Ya see, I have actually been told by feminists to STFU when they asked a room about rape or abuse(I was in a relationship with the person as much as a fourth-eighth grader can be). If I share my experience I am told I am derailing the conversation.

>(especially from the authority structures i.e. police)
Actually it was a social worker. Very liberal bunch, I know my mother was one. I have a friend I would call an SJW who is going to school to be one and he seems to fit in very well when I see him with the other students.

>that you don't have to deal with when you are not a woman
Not a woman, had to deal with an older kid sexually abusing me for four years and even my own mother still liking said girl.

>put you into a position of authority more quickly
I wind up in positions of authority because I am loud, covered in scars, and have obvious PTSD. People are afraid of me and just hand it to me because they assume I am violent. An assumption based more on my scarred up knuckles and shifty eyes than my penis.

>a lot of research
Seen it. Not convinced. It isn't in depth enough for me, it leaves a lot out, and I honestly think it is biased. Are there places men have it better? Oh definitely! Same with women! For example my mother once told me she believes a huge part of the pay gap is that when you are single mother you are too afraid to negotiate your wages because you just desperately want the job! But that is not society doing something to a woman. That is a shit draw. What happened to me was society turning its back on me entirely.

>your ideas surrounding what privilege is are quite incorrect
Maybe you are right and I don't know jack about privilege, but I know history pretty well, so I need a whole lot of convincing to call anybody privileged. When there is a fictional oppressor there is a real catastrophe soon to come.

>>7758088
You know that a raw deal is a bad thing, right? Not calling you stupid, even willing to say maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what you are saying is a contradiction is confusing me.

I said "we aren't so privileged" and "we get a raw deal." Those seem very logically congruent to me.

>>7758163
Sorry, I thought getting a 'raw deal' was a good thing. Please reread my post accordingly

>Hey /lgbt/. I've been browsing 4chan for years but have never visited this board. Mind if I ask a few questions?

No.

>1. Are there any LGBT libertarians/conservatives that browse/post here?

Yes: I am a bisexual palaeolibertarian.

>2. Are there any LGBT people that get tired of the identity politics and Cultural Marxist crap that spews from the left?

I am a neoreactionary so I broadly oppose Leftism; I oppose democracy, egalitarianism, socialism, and universalism. I do not oppose identity politics axiomatically like some 'alt-lite' personalities do; I believe White identity politics is necessary.

>3. Do you believe people have rights because their individuals or because they belong to some arbitrary group?

Both depending on context. In national politics, I typically favor individualism; however, I oppose individualism where it intersects with universalism (open borders advocacy being a prime example of such a mentality).

>4. Why does the LGBT community seem to constantly seek and validation and approval from others even when we have marriage equality?

Cultural Leftism: a desire for self-legitimization through perceived victimization.

>>7757503

>marginalized all over the world

So you admit we should indeed keep Mudslimes out?

>>7757887

ECONOMIC CALCULATION PROBLEM MOTHERFUCKER

>>7757899

Inb4 "Muh not real communism!"

>>7757922

So you're an anarcho-communist who is against all governmental coercion?

>>7758173
Care to just reply again? I just cannot make heads or tails of what you are trying to tell me. Sorry.

>>7758142
>If I share my experience I am told I am derailing the conversation.
If you say that you have been raped/sexually abused you get people telling you you are derailing?
I'm really sorry if that happened, but it is absolutely so remote from anything I've seen in SJW circles that I find it extremely difficult to even imagine the circumstances under which that happens. I've never seen anyone get close to being rejected like that when speaking.

>Actually it was a social worker
That's pretty terrible, I would think that they would have better training for that sort of thing. Obviously everyone that's been abused deserves support and making priorities like that is absurd

>had to deal with an older kid sexually abusing me for four years and even my own mother still liking said girl.
That again sounds like a situation in which sexism is at fault, that sexual contact between you is not seen as a detriment to a teenage boy is absolutely emblematic of sexist thinking

>An assumption based more on my scarred up knuckles and shifty eyes than my penis.
That sounds like the class vs. sex/race distinction I was making earlier, but I really doubt you'd be viewed at all the same way if you were indeed a woman

> a huge part of the pay gap is that when you are single mother you are too afraid to negotiate your wages
Yes the lack of negotiation is a popular argument. It definitely has some merit but there is a lot to be said about how women are not socialized into agency and how they are inherently percieved as less assertive or bitchy if they try too much.

I don't know what kinds of stuff you've read but I've been looking into both MRA and feminist literature for a few years now and I think that mainstream liberal feminism is pretty bad for a variety of reasons, but the core of feminist critiques of society are still totally accurate. I think a shift towards elimination of gender as a whole is necessary rather than the choosing sides bullshit that is going on atm

>>7758225
Sure:

Once again, 'male privilege' doesn't mean none of the shit we've been through matters. Male privilege doesn't mean men are privileged in all walks of life, and male privilege certainly doesn't mean men can't raped and men aren't victims of self harm. The same goes for rape culture. In fact, rape culture encompasses the rape of men and how there are thousands of cases of it not being considered or laughed at simply because the victim is male.

>>7758209
kek little too late there bud

>>7758180
>this entire post

you are basically straight you fucking idiot and hella privileged please fuck off

>traditionalism while saying you favour individualism
what a dolt

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1. You guys have innundated this board. Fuck off back to /pol/ with your politics left or right.

2. Almost as sick of it as i am with the rights vitrol

3. Who doesn't believe in rights as an individual unless they don't believe in rights? What are you even on about?

4. Marriage equality is under attack in the US and still recent plus most of the world still doesn't recognize same sex marriage. LGBT issues arn't just marriage issues either. Trannies are basically still in the dark ages when it cones to the shit they need and no country is free of homophobia.

OP here's a question for you: Why are you such a faggot?

>>7757986
>this is cis white males oppression

lol get a grip, faggot.

1. Are there any LGBT libertarians/conservatives that browse/post here?

Definitely, though I'm ultra-left.

2. Are there any LGBT people that get tired of the identity politics and Cultural Marxist crap that spews from the left?

I can't stand identity politics. It's what's wrong with the modern 'left'.

3. Do you believe people have rights because their individuals or because they belong to some arbitrary group?

I don't believe in rights. I believe we need laws for ethical reasons, but 'rights' are meaningless--anyone strong enough can just... ignore them.

4. Why does the LGBT community seem to constantly seek and validation and approval from others even when we have marriage equality?

I'm sort of doubting you're LGBT, because if you were you wouldn't think marriage equality is even... like, vaguely corrective of the big issues. It was a milestone, yes, but there are a million and one other problems.

>>7758180
Don't cut yourself on that edge buddy.

>>7758237

>you are basically straight you fucking idiot and hella privileged please fuck off

Nice biphobia, bigot.

>>traditionalism while saying you favour individualism
t>what a dolt

Individual liberties are good but universalism is not: a belief in universalized individualism is maximally disastrous. The open borders delusions embraced by some AnCaps is an exemplar of that.

>>7757439
1) Not really conservative, but Nat Soc
2) Yes. The only cultural identity I care about is Northern Europeans and their dispersion.
3) I believe this question wouldn't matter if we stuck with our own kind
4) Because its representatives primary motive is destroying western civilization and white people. The same reason why all leftists act as crazy as they do.

>>7758259

Neoreactionary here. I like Lefties like you who have a modicum of intellectual fiber. You are a dialectical materialist, right? Are you familiar with Nick Land and his post-Marxist work?

>>7758283
If you are obsessed with muh race bullshit then you are most likely just going to be a regular breeder like all the other heteronormative fucks

You probably just seem like you're straight to everyone around you, your mild attraction to men is really not a detriment to your life, you are pretty much just as privileged as any regular straight person

please fuck off

>>7758302
>if they reject identity politics meme then they are kinda intellectual!
lmao this argument is the most tired shit, there's nothing wrong with what people perceive to be idpol

>Nick Land
kys

>>7758227
>I've never seen anyone get close to being rejected like that
I hadn't either when I was an SJW. And this was a friend who did this to me. A lesbian rad fem. Not just some stranger I assumed was an SJW due to the circumstances and language used.

>training for that sort of thing
My mother has told me that it was actually quite by the book with their training. They are taught to take preference with females, those under ten, and minorities when sending help.

>sexist thinking
Yes, sexist thinking, in which they took preference over the girl. She is also a white supremacist who has told me she sexually fantasized about Putin, pretty messed up herself so I don't try to take my anger issues out on her. I mean I have. She tried to walk into my room in Freshman year and I hold a knife to her throat.But shit like that is why I get places of authority. I tend to "deal with my own problems," so to speak.Not something I am proud or ashamed of. Just what I had to become.

>but I really doubt you'd be viewed the same way if you were indeed a woman
Probably not. And sometimes I wish I was. Not trans or dysphoric, but do you know what it feels like to be feared? What it does to your head? Though trust me, women could be feared by acting like me, but appearance and demeanor alone wouldn't be enough.

>Both MRA and feminist literature for a few years now
Me too, but I am spoken down to for saying the MRA's make more sense. Called delusional, sexist, misogynist, etc.

>I think a shift towards elmination of gender as a whole is necessary rather than the choosing sides bullshit that is going on atm
I disagree with this. We don't need to do either. We need to do neither. If gender has physical influences determined by sex we will see it stay. If not we will see it vanish. Either way we need to just watch nature instead of trying to alter it before we fully understand it.

>>7758298

I broadly agree with ethnat ideas but I must ask: why national socialism? Why not national capitalism? And most crucially of all: how does national socialism solve The Economic Calculation Problem?

>>7758232
Male privilege as you define it sounds meaningless and like it is more of a buzzwords than an argument. I hear it needs taken apart, but then I hear way more of what it isn't than what it is. This privilege thing seems to come with no up sides.

>>7758259
identity politics are ultra-left stfu

>>7758309

>If you are obsessed with muh race bullshit then you are most likely just going to be a regular breeder like all the other heteronormative fucks
>You probably just seem like you're straight to everyone around you, your mild attraction to men is really not a detriment to your life, you are pretty much just as privileged as any regular straight person
>please fuck off

[BIPHOPBIA INTENSIFIES]

>lmao this argument is the most tired shit, there's nothing wrong with what people perceive to be idpol

Nigga you just said you can't stand identity politics.

>kys

Nice argument.

>>7758311
>If gender has physical influences determined by sex we will see it stay. If not we will see it vanish. Either way we need to just watch nature instead of trying to alter it before we fully understand it.

You seem pretty reasonable in the other stuff and quite a lot of life experience but honestly this is such a terrible take for so many reasons

I recommend you look into leftist critiques of modernity a la dialectics of enlightenment

>>7758341
I have and I thought it was some BS.

>>7758320
Male privilege is the treatment and disadvantages women have compared to men. Being a rape victim, you've suffered some of that treatment, and that's terrible. But that doesn't make the huge amount of women who get raped and/or live their lives in fear of being raped compared to men disappear. The same also goes for things like magazine depictions, catcalling, govt controlling bodies, rape culture, pay gap, and many other things that either apply only to women or apply to them on a much larger scale than men.

But, I'm tired, so I'm gonna go to bed now. Hope you go easy on the smoking

>>7758341

>I recommend you look into leftist critiques of modernity a la dialectics of enlightenment

Would a neoreactionary Techno-Commercialist like me find it interesting?

>>7758364
I don't really care about the fear thing. That is on them. To the other stuff, I believe about two thirds of it is real, and that even that is not as it is perceived.

I appreciate your good wishes, and return them in full, but honestly here's hoping it kills me.

>>7758344

So what kind of Leftist are you?

>>7758366
Honestly probably not, just because it is diametrically opposed to some of your basic conceptions and principles, I think it's the kind of scenario in which you'll just become more entrenched in your own thinking

Still if you feel like it go read a review and try it out maybe I'm totally wrong

>>7758458
A) That is a very strange question. If somebody said they took issues with something specific in the bible you don't ask, "So what kind of Christian are you?"

B) I don't know. Really don't think I am a right winger. Classical Liberal maybe? The only philosophy I have ever felt was mirrored in how the world has interacted with me was Nihilism.

>>7758341
>your opinion is highly problematic™, you should do some research™ sweetie
Why is this construction, in it's various forms, abused to such extent by the liberals?

>>7758492
because lefty critiques tend to be more nuanced and require all sorts of secondary knowledge they aren't as easily representable in some stupid infographic

>>7757439
libertarianfag here. im ready to die

>>7758492
How do you think I feel? I admitted to being raped just to get spoken down to. And I bet they assume that their initial assumption of me is the majority of people who disagree with the SJW mindset. That they were just internet radicalized like European ISIS members.

Nah, we are salty because we've been fucked and we have an idea of what is to come if we let ourselves get fucked anymore.

Also isn't it neat how people who talk about class so much are so fine with citing things that are behind pay walls? Not including this person, but shit happens a lot, and I find it insulting as a poor.

>>7758521

Palaeo or GTFO.

>>7758519
If it was pure nuance there would be more quoting and citations. Maybe you are just confined by the medium, but the way you present yourself is sickeningly condescending.

>>7758540
it's sickening after I acknowledged that the person is otherwise reasonable?

The fact that I bothered to even recommend a book is proof that I have some sense of respect for their intellect

>>7758328
Identity politics are inherently reactionary, an inverted bizarro-nationalism with former victims claiming the top seats.

The real solution is equality, not revenge. Anyone who doesn't understand that is guilty of a perversion of what the left truly stands for, and more a part of the problem than a part of the solution.

>>7758558
That is what I am talking about! "Otherwise reasonable." No, I am 100% reasonable, as are you, we just disagree! It happens! When you start with assuming that it is my media consumption, as if that is just what your opposition is, that is immensely condescending. I find most ideologies, possibly all now that I think about it, to be completely detrimental, but I go after the idea itself, not the person pushing it, because I know they probably have their reason to back it!

>>7758302
No, actually. I'm critical of Marxism on the bases that 1) it overestimates the important of class and underestimates the importance of nationalism-xenophobia, and 2) makes claims that things will absolutely get better, in such and such way, because of such and such thing, with zero evidence.

I'm not familiar with the particular work you mentioned, however.

>>7758564
Oh thank Kek, I was beginning to think I was the only human being left who felt this way.

Though I would say identity politics kind of transcend right or left to prove horse shoe theory. it is not right or left, it is totalitarian. It sets up the hierarchy for when they decide who supreme leader is.

>>7758581

>No, actually. I'm critical of Marxism on the bases that 1) it overestimates the important of class and underestimates the importance of nationalism-xenophobia

Which is how ethnat criticizes Marxism from inverse political polarity.

>2) makes claims that things will absolutely get better, in such and such way, because of such and such thing, with zero evidence.

So you dispute historical materialism?

>I'm not familiar with the particular work you mentioned, however.

Land was once a Marxist before his reactionary turn (although he still identifies with some of Marx's ideas: http://www.xenosystems.net/right-on-the-money-2/); he posts his doses of darkness at XenoSystems.net. He is a particularly fascinating thinker IMO.

Bisexual FtM here.

1) I'm basically /pol/ack in some regards and...leftist in others? I really don't. I don't call myself "conservative" because I'm NOT - I believe I'm genetically leftist (I think political orientation is largely determined by genes and it's fascinating shit - google the "disgust scale" correlation with politics, for example), as my family is leftist down the line. Especially my mother's side, where everyone is strongly socially leftist back to every generation still alive. But I came to the conclusion a few years ago that the SJW left I was raised with and associating myself with at the time is basically...wrong about almost everything that really matters.

It's not in my nature to value "conservative" things like tradition, authority, purity, or in-group loyalty. (Quite the OPPOSITE, actually, I spent most of my life with a kneejerk hatred of tradition and a deep distrust of authority figures.) I have always been someone who gravitated innately toward concerns about justice, fairness and automatic, unexamined generosity towards others. (REFUGEES WELCOME LOLOLOL.) I have come to think our society has become very unbalanced in those directions without enough stabilizing "pull" towards tradition and people. "My" people (innate leftists) have gained TOO much power, beaten down their opposition TOO well, and no longer answer to meaningful opposition. Too many conservatives in a society means rigidity and stagnation; but more than a large minority of liberals in power means CHAOS. So I have made a conscious choice to find value in conservative ideals and to throw my weight behind them to help unfuck us all. It feels uncomfortable/unnatural - loyalty was the easiest value to learn (I think it's truly, genuinely something I value now), but I still struggle with when the others are reasonable (purity especially, since I naturally experience next-to-no disgust at all.)

Libertarianism is for guys who thought militant atheism wasn't edge enough, though.

>>7759185
[cont]
2. Obviously, see above.

3. This was kind of unclear. Is this kind of a "opposition to special interest groups" kind of question?

I'm unsure at this point if I believe in fundamental "rights" - certainly not when that concept is used as an excuse to justify extorting your natives to help foreigners. I think a healthy and compassionate society extends more aid and protection to its weaker members.

4. Nietzschean slave morality - explains the entirety of the modern left.

>>7757503
>yes and theyre either larpers or genuine retards
>>7757831
>Probably, it's usually the same edgy fucks described in question 1. The low-self esteem and desire to seem unique make for excellent motivation in becoming a GSM right-winger
Your absolute inability or refusal to understand your political opponent is not a moral virtue, fyi.

>>7757922
"Actual" capitalism has never been tried before, either. You can't argue that it doesn't work, because we don't know.

>>7757985
>Also I reckon that at least some of what people describe as marginalization is actually much more the result of class divisions than it is just being your race/sex.
I reckon you're fucking stupid. The attack on whites is constant, insidious, and entrenched into every aspect of our daily lives. Wake the fuck up. Jesus christ.

White privilege does not exist, male privilege does not exist, those concepts were fabricated to cut down people for being successful. Every time whites/men adjust to this vomit from academia, it changes form to keep whites and men from ever achieving the status of non-oppressors. We're up to fucking "microaggressions" now, for fuck's sake.

There's lots of "research" on this shit which does nothing but confirm the bias of "peer review," since almost any "privilege" you look into deeply doesn't stand up to scrutiny unless you OMIT information that provides alternative explanations for a group's success.

Stop being smug at how smart you are for watching Jon Stewart and read more.

>>7757439
>1
I'm anti-authoritarian and far right

>2
Identity politics is a plague, cultural marxism is a meme word but I don't agree with the groups being accused of being cultural marxists.

>3
Individuals.

>4
Because marriage equality is just a drop in the ocean. I don't really fight for lgbt rights (I'm bisexual and have no intention to ever marry) but it's easy to understand why others do, even if I seldom agree with the methods.

>>7758564

I recently saw some minor controversy in France about a sexual education pamphlet which wrote, on the issue of the variety of couples: "You might see together two men, two women, or even a man and a woman". A right wing Catholic organisation took offense and deplored how it was absolutely not fair how LGBT couples took the spotlight and demanded "equal treatment", whatever that means in this context, The fact that you don't see them bitching about equality when nearly every movie, book, theater play, advertisement, etc. centers around heterosexual relationships, I think stands to highlight how equality is perceived by different groups, and how it is not a fixed, well-defined concept. If you have a rich man and a poor man, you'd probably find it ludicrous if for every dollar the government gave the poor man, the rich man demanded to receive one too. Equal treatment under different circumstances isn't equality. And given the messiness of politics, I'd find it reasonable that different people have different understandings of what equality means, depending on what circumstances they take into account.

>>7757899
7 million die of starvation and malnutrition under capitalism every year. Capitalism has managed to kill more in the past decade than socialism managed in 100 years.

>>7757503
>yes and theyre either larpers or genuine retards
aka "they trigger me"

>Do you believe people have rights because their individuals or because they belong to some arbitrary group?
>loaded question
So your answer is clearly the latter.

>>7759196
>I'm anti-authoritarian and far right

Are you people masochists or something? How can someone be that retarded?

>>7759415
Do you expect me to manage a good answer to that post? I have no idea what you're on about.

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>>7759415
You don't understand what Anon means by 'far right' - this is only on the economic scale. In this political compass they would be on the bottom right.

>>7759479
That's a fucking fantastic jpg.

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>>7758319
Because in national socialism, the health of the Volk comes first, not (((capital))).

>>7757439
1) I am a right libertarian but not conservative at all

2) I've been pissed at it forever

3) Because they are individuals

4) Cause their leftist fags

>>7759187
>"Actual" capitalism has never been tried before, either. You can't argue that it doesn't work, because we don't know.
Except it has.
Nice try though.

>>7759792
Where?

I'm right-leaning libertarian. I didn't vote in the election for gay marriage in Ireland, it didn't bother me either way because we had civil marriage anyways.
I think the majority of the reason why gay people have this hivemind in regards to identities, is because growing up (for me anyways) they dont know any other gay peeps, then when they go to univerisity/college BAM. They find others like them and go to protests together, etc. I never really got involved with those individuals, so I like to think that i'm more objective when it comes to politics- but i guess everyone thinks that. *shrugs*

Sure, taxation is theft and economic freedom is necessary for a prosperous society.

Identity politics are irritating and dehumanizing, but it's mostly the left in America that engages in them as a politic strategy so idc.

Of course individuals.

No hate crime laws, no non-descrimination laws, shit like that. Personally I don't care, mostly because there is no evidence anti-LGBT hate crime laws actually stop people from committing hate crimes against LGBT people. It's just a matter of lip service, which I'm not interested in.

>>7759187
>Your absolute inability or refusal to understand your political opponent is not a moral virtue, fyi.

Lmao I never said it was but I'm not refusing anything I've genuinely considered most rightey arguments and read a bunch of their recommended materials I understand them plenty

>The attack on whites is constant, insidious, and entrenched into every aspect of our daily lives. Wake the fuck up. Jesus christ.
LOL yeah but heteronormativity and an image of whites as an ideal is totally not a thing that is entrenched in our social institutions not at all. Think of all the poor oppressed whiteys ;(

>White privilege does not exist, male privilege does not exist, those concepts were fabricated to cut down people for being successful
I can't take your accusations of "not understanding your political opponent" seriously if you say something like this you've actually gone as far as to thinking that there is no merit to those concepts. Yes literally fabricated out of thin air, couldn't possibly be anything genuine out there that makes it obvious to some people that these things exist, I bet it was a bunch of Jew-propaganda too!

>it changes form to keep whites and men from ever achieving the status of non-oppressors
Plenty of white guys that I know are actually aware of their own privilege and sometimes they're even willing to use it for justice. Obviously those ones aren't the problem, and for the most part individuals aren't, but that doesn't mean our social institutions are not still compromised by everyone's implicit thinking.

>We're up to fucking "microaggressions" now
Yeah because the small things don't matter right? it's not like our social reality is shaped by a myriad of interactions that affect our subconscious or anything. If we're equal in the eyes of the law then that means everything is fine!

>and read more.
Yeah I read all the fucking time from both sides and it's clear to me you don't, spend less time on /pol/ please

>>7759890
>but it's mostly the left in America that engages in them
>implying
Left and centrists in Europe adapted the American rhetoric and populist right-wingers used it to gain the support they currently enjoy.

>>7759900
I meant, among Americans, it's mostly used as a political tool by the left.

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>1
Yes but not me. I'm a left-leaning moderate.

>2
Oh my god yes. All this thought police stuff is starting to get a little old.

>3
I believe all humans have a set of fundamental rights, no matter who they are, but sometimes it can seem like someone's getting more than their fair share when they suddenly get a bunch all at once. I certainly don't believe people deserve things by the merits of their birth, but there's some things that do need correcting.

>4
Self-actualization and feeling accepted in society is a literal human need. There's been papers written on this

>>7759890
>Personally I don't care, mostly because there is no evidence anti-LGBT hate crime laws actually stop people from committing hate crimes against LGBT people.

Not yet. Non-discrimination laws are still fairly new, and certain people are taking them a bit too far. I think once we look back on history, though, we'll see a clear trend.

>>7759920
Do you have any numbers to back up that "clear trend"? They're a way for politicians to pay lip service to marginalized groups without actually doing anything helpful for them. Rather than actually address the issues of complex issues of homophobia or transphobia, it's easier to just pass a hate-crime law.

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>>7759899 continued

>>7759187
>There's lots of "research" on this shit which does nothing but confirm the bias of "peer review," since almost any "privilege" you look into deeply doesn't stand up to scrutiny unless you OMIT information that provides alternative explanations for a group's success.
Research on social issues is actually just very difficult to conduct because it's impossible to correct for all the factors and have clear-cut observations regarding the way people are thinking. You can't get access to all the subtle biases people exhibit and experience as they navigate complex social structures because there aren't single measurements to be done, you can only go off second hand accounts and hermeneutics. It's not as braindead as making some measurements of genes and then saying "whites are just biologically smarter and we live in a just meritocratic world", it's absolutely ignorant of decades of research which you dismiss because it's not "objective" or whatever.
You can't explain something like pic related with just biology and history, you need to understand the social forces that shape our behaviour and institutions, something which can't be evaluated at an absolute level.

No one that I know from /pol/ takes any fucking time to read actual leftists authors regarding economics or history that aren't just memes and think that dismissing postmodernism as a starting point is a reasonable way to approach the topic because one of their leaders has told them that it's propaganda.

And before you say any other stupid shit about privilege I'll have you know that I am a white male and I genuinely think that most things SJWs and such say are mostly accurate.

>>7759936

No, because the numbers I'm talking about are measured in decades. Not to mention, the laws are imperfect still.

>>7757934
>I am hugely anti-SJW
So is literally everyone on 4chan. You're not a martyr for having these views. You are so 2012, gosh.
>And I feel far more marginalized as a white male than I do as a "GSM."
Sucks pham. Shit gets better after college though.

>>7759945
What does that even mean? I just want proof of this clear trend you're talking about. Every study I see says hate crime laws have no visible effect on the number of arrests for hate crimes.

>>7759621
>the health of the Volk
you surely mean the health of some abstract definition of a loosely defined collective that is only associated via the arbitrary border lines someone was born within and the upbringing they experienced, as well as the health of whatever body of government currently exists.

Right?

>>7759809
Somalia. And in Chile. Friedman boyeee.

Taxation is good. This thread is shit.

>>7760044
Chile's economy exploded in the 80s tho, they went from shittier than Venezuela in the 70s to the best economy in South America.

The Somalia that hasn't had a stable government since they ousted their socialist dictator who ruled from 1969-1991?

Well
that moment when lgbt threads look like pol 2.0 with less Nazi-Larper
GG, /pol/, GG.

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>>7757439
>1
Yes, I'm a monarchist with semiconservative yet non-religous political views

>2
Obviously

>3
I don't really understand this question. I believe any rights/privileges should be worked for.

>4
I don't know. Trannies and flamers probably.

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>>7757922
God, I forgot people like you existed

>>7760198
People like me exist, too.

The ones who say Marxism-Leninism isn't communism or socialism, it's red fascism.

>>7758585
I don't think it's an issue of hierarchy so much as stupidity. People want there to be simple, discrete groups which are all clearly either goodies or baddies.

When regressive leftists see someone being used as a punching bag, they shove their entire perceived 'group' into the "PRECIOUS INNOCENT ANGEL, PROTECT THEM" slot. This is stupid. Many victims are or would be just as bad as those who victimise them, given the chance.

Because of this, [spoiler]I propose that humans are not qualified to make good political choices, that any semblance of democracy should be dismantled, and I should be installed as a leader truly capable of sound judgement.[/spoiler]

>>7758611
I will have to check it out. I'll let you know, though, that I refuse to align myself with 'the darkness'. I am a literal treehugging vegan type, and my political stances mostly consist of "What would be most compassionate? Okay, let's do that."

>>7760109
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Boys

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>>7757439
1.) yes. stop fucking pigeonholing us you stupid cunts.
2.) yes, it spills from every fucking side though. i don't fucking care what you believe, just leave me the fuck alone.
also cultural marxism is a fucking meme, stop being a retard
3.) i only care about my own rights.
4.) that's your own observations. i can't explain why you see some shit.
now fuck off with your spooky shit, and let me post tfw trannny

>>7759388
>>>7757899
>7 million die of starvation and malnutrition under capitalism every

Good; eugenics is good.

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>>7761195
>the death of the human race and the exploitation of the finite resources of this planet for the benefit of a few rich jews is somehow good

OK.

>>7759621

>Because in national socialism, the health of the Volk comes first

How is such an ethico-political criterion rigorously differentiable from progressive demotism? You are seemingly a progressive who has de-universalized and re-racialized progressive populism.

>not (((capital))).

Why not? Why should The State coercively constrain Capital?

And you did not answer my question: how does national socialism solve The Economic Calculation Problem?

>>7760229

>it's red fascism.

I'm stealing that.

>>7761224
Explain how possessing capital and using up the limited resources this planet has to aid a few solves anything besides appeasement of human greed and the illusion of possibility.

Explain to me how the economy is more important than the well being of the humans that create and support it

>>7761251

>Explain how possessing capital and using up the limited resources this planet has to aid a few solves anything besides appeasement of human greed and the illusion of possibility.

>Explain to me how the economy is more important than the well being of the humans that create and support it

Because I believe humanity should be supplanted or absorbed by Techno-Capital; I reject all anthropocentric economics; see:

>http://www.xenosystems.net/right-on-the-money-2/

http://www.xenosystems.net/great-decoupling/

The ultimate purpose of capitalism is techno-intelligenenic autonomization of capital.

>>7759899
>LOL yeah but heteronormativity and an image of whites as an ideal is totally not a thing that is entrenched in our social institutions not at all.
Heterosexuality is normal and desirable. Why would this basic fact get you buttmad?

White people are naturally going to consider themselves ideal in their own societies. I do not go to Japan and whine that they consider themselves the default, but that is essentially EXACTLY what non-whites do in Western countries. You are so fucking used to whites being apologetic doormats that you actually think something is WRONG if some object.

>I can't take your accusations of "not understanding your political opponent" seriously if you say something like this you've actually gone as far as to thinking that there is no merit to those concepts.
WOW JUST WOW. Yeah, no, I don't really think there is merit to those concepts. Specifically because, as I already explained, virtually any example of "privilege" is better explained BY SOMETHING ELSE.

E.g. the supposed "privilege" whites have in the legal system is absolutely non-existent. Every argument I have EVER seen for this idea is handily countered by data which is always left omitted to support the theory. ("Black people are shot more often by cops," for example, is only comparing those rates to population share and not to crime rates. That's a really basic example.)

>Plenty of white guys that I know are actually aware of their own privilege
Plenty of white guys you know are brainwashed ethnomasochists who have yet to wake up to how badly they've been lied to.

>Yeah because the small things don't matter right?
Small things matter; what is bullshit is gaslighting people into being abusers for the most innocuous shit.

>Yeah I read all the fucking time from both sides and it's clear to me you don't, spend less time on /pol/ please
I was RAISED with your views and minored in race/gender studies and class inequity soc. My student loans are the biggest regret of my life.

>>7761448

>Heterosexuality is normal and desirable. Why would this basic fact get you buttmad?

I would rephrase that in terms of sexual realism; sexuality is biological (not a social construct). Therefore, most people are and shall remain heterosexual and that shall manifest culturally (which is fine).
>White people are naturally going to consider themselves ideal in their own societies. I do not go to Japan and whine that they consider themselves the default, but that is essentially EXACTLY what non-whites do in Western countries. You are so fucking used to whites being apologetic doormats that you actually think something is WRONG if some object.

Agreed completely. If you don't like Whites, then stop living in a White country.

>>7757463
This
>>7757817
This

>>7761220

Do you even Neo-Malthusianism?

>>7757887
Those issues are not because of capitalism. They are caused by corrupt and ill-managed wasteful government.

>>7757439
>1.
yes
>2.
yes
>3.
yes
>4.
Because every single "right" we have we had to beg for.
If you have to beg for a right then they're not rights anymore.

>>7757887
That picture is retarded.
It's communism that failed.
You see the people who died under communism were the people that communism was supposed to protect.
The people who die under capitalism are all considered expendable.

Cruel, but the way the system is intended to work. Unlike communism.

>>7760269
I don't believe that they are intentionally building hierarchies. I think that the natural, stupid desire for simplicity and classes is a left over of our being pack animals.

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>>7761448
>Heterosexuality is normal and desirable. Why would this basic fact get you buttmad?
I didn't say heterosexuality though I meant the entirety of our social institutions which are not accessible or accommodating to GSM people, something that negatively affects me personally

>You are so fucking used to whites being apologetic doormats that you actually think something is WRONG if some object.
Object to what exactly? that PoC tell them that they have some privilege? yes I actually do think there is something wrong in such a case, it means you are an oversensitive whiner and also ignorant of your own society and the lived experiences of PoC. If you actually go as far as to appealing to white supremacy then that is more reason to think wrong of you

>Every argument I have EVER seen for this idea is handily countered by data which is always left omitted to support the theory
And what is left omitted exactly from a previous government official saying this?
>We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

What is missing from republicans pinning for ID laws that they've research would target minorities and democrats the most? it's clearly effective and absolutely deliberate

>who have yet to wake up to how badly they've been lied to.
Ah yes the "everyone is just brainwashed unlike me" trope. And why would anyone do that exactly? why are people trying to convince whites that racism exists? maybe just MAYBE it's because and it actually does and it negatively affects their life? does that seem like such an unlikely claim after everything that happened in the US?

>>7760041
If you don't believe in the reality of race, and the superiority of the Nordic subtype of the white race, then you cannot be reasoned with.

>>7763584
>social institutions not accommodating to acronym
>PoC are right by default because lived experiences
>If you disagree with us YOU are the whiny one!
>using black and white picture times as an argument(yes your quote is about the Nixon administration)
>requiring ID to vote is racist
>vague manipulation of US guilt

Why is EVERY point you make a fucking meme? No for real!

Also,
>And why would anyone do that exactly?
If you don't understand that then you need to stop acting like the smart one here. Showing oneself as the victim is one of the oldest and most effective methods of grabbing power.

>inb4 "You think the conspiracy is that big?"
No, I believe in useful idiots. And the leaders are probably useful idiots. The people who knew what they were doing are mostly dead or retired.

>>7763613
>social institutions not accommodating to acronym
Yeah imagine a GSM person have that concern, like, how fucking ridicolous of me to ask to be accommodated in society. We should all just go back to being closeted like in the 50's that shit is great

>PoC are right by default because lived experiences
They are anecdotal proof of what you claim doesn't happen or isn't an issue (it is)

>If you disagree with us YOU are the whiny one!
Pretty much anyone that whines about anti-racism is actually just a racist themselves, it's a reasonable way to characterize them

>using black and white picture times as an argument
It's almost like most negative effects of racism are generational and will continue to be a problem way into the future

>requiring ID to vote is racist
When it's done with the implicit intention of affecting minorities and skewing results then it is

>vague manipulation of US guilt
Yes your country has a particularly bad problem with racism and swaths of research and information on it

>Why is EVERY point you make a fucking meme? No for real!
Because this is a discussion that has already been hashed out and so you feel that a lack of novelty means that it's ineffective?
All those things I mentioned are still problems, they still exist, they still affect people's lives. Your dismissal of them isn't gonna make every PoC suddenly wake up and realize that actually they haven't experienced any racism and the society they live in treats everyone well (hint: it doesn't)

>Showing oneself as the victim is one of the oldest and most effective methods of grabbing power.
I can say the same exact thing about your whining "whites are really the oppressed ones!"

Yes it's an effective method in a situation where you are already disempowered, because it's one of the few things you CAN actually do, it's absolutely reasonable.

>I believe in useful idiots. And the leaders are probably useful idiots
So who's not an idiot that is directing it then? the Jews?

>>7763698
>More of acronym in passive aggressive use
I am also acronym, and I feel accommodated at least on a Federal level! Not every push against your level of BS is MAGA!

>Anecdotal proof followed by unbelievable arrogance
Are you aware how useless anecdotal EVIDENCE, not proof, learn the difference, is in an academic setting?

>reasonable to call all people not on my team racists
No. Horseshoe Theory. Pendulum effect. "Educate yourself, Google is free," as your kind often would say!

>Passive aggressive way of saying things follow us
Nixon being racist doesn't mean the US is going to be racist forever. And the drug problem caught up with whitey I promise.

>More of requiring ID to vote is racist
You'd have a stunningly good argument if black people weren't allowed ID's.

>Outright attempted manipulation of US guilt
"your country," So you are just talking mad shit about a place that you don't live in AND wanting to talk down to me about the way it works? Fucking neato, ya arrogant basket of cunts!

>Excessively trying to tell me about racism in a country that you do not live in
I don't believe racism doesn't exist. I believe you and your ilk are trying to turn things on its head.

>You are still the one whining!
I don't think I am oppressed as a white person! And no, it doesn't only work when you are disempowered! In fact it works best when you are near equality but have a history of getting screwed!

>UR A NATSI!1!1!
Nice try. As I said, dead or retired, and I would say authors. Vengeful jack asses, the power hungry, the delusional, there is no race or class I blame because I am not a bigot. Though, the Jews probably would NOT benefit from an SJW takeover. I imagine Israel would get quite the make over!

>>7763698
>saying crimes should be stopped is wrong because blacks are more likely to commit crimes
BLM in a nutshell.

>>7763817
Be prepared for passive aggression. I was nicer than you and they implied that they thought I was a Nazi.

>>7763584

Most minorities should not have voting 'rights'.

>>7764556
They are citizens just as much as you

>>7763817

BLM are just thugs who want a licence to nig.

>>7764562

Well, I oppose democracy in general. There should be no mass franchise. I prefer neocameralism: a commercial confederation of competing techno-feudal micro-autocracies.

>>7764621
I know how you think this is smart, but it is not.

>>7764627

Have you read any neoreactionary literature?

>>7764632
Tell me some titles and I'll add them to my Amazon wish list. Not sarcasm, I have it loaded with religious, economic, and philosophy. I use it as a reading list.

But if "a commercial confederation of competing techno-feudal micro-autocracies" means what it sounds like it is all of the worst parts of Anarcho Capitalism and all the worst parts of Communism wrapped up in one. But I assume you think that the dollar of the buyer would act as a vote and you are fine with the class division because you believe you would be on top. You wouldn't be.

>>7764621
Seriously fucking this >>7764627


Just because what you read has lots of hyphenated words and condemnation of "common uneducated plebs" doesn't mean that it's actually worthwhile intellectual material


There's really no reason to believe that people want to orient society based on proprietarian competition of whoever can come up with some stupid fucking gadget. A system like that would strip power and direction away from regular people into the hands of technocrats that are going to be too busy facilitating exploitation to improve the lives of most. It would cause nihilism to be embedded even deeper into society and would bring about the culmination of dehumanization through hyper-rationality. It would be a terrible system to live under for a whole host of reasons.

It's also hella not-feasible since intellectual proprietarianism isn't going to survive with the proliferation of the internet anyways

>>7764690
former/current policy debater detected.

>>7764698
Idiot who lists names of fallacies hoping to guilt people into forfeiting when they are obviously in the right detected.

>>7764698
Is this a bad thing?

I'm not one to think that reform and policy are enough, but they're definitely worthwhile enough to discuss


I've read some of the neo-reactionary stuff and it didn't convince me at all, I really can't imagine life under such a system being worthwhile or desirable

>>7764715
I haven't posted in this thread yet. I just saw "hella not-feasible," "nihlism," and "dehumanization" while scrolling and assumed you did high school/college policy debate in the US.

>>7764727
Maybe I mistook you, nevermind.

>>7764736
I did >>7764698 but I was not >>7764690
I was however his "this."

Point being, sorry I thought you were being a dick and accusing him of something. People call each other weird names here. My bad.

>>7764749
I just like trying to tell who on 4chan is a debater. There are so many, you'd be surprised.

>>7764661

>Tell me some titles and I'll add them to my Amazon wish list. Not sarcasm, I have it loaded with religious, economic, and philosophy. I use it as a reading list.

Cool:

'Democracy: The God That Failed' - Hans-Hermann Hoppe.

'The Dark Enlightenment' - Nick Land.

And everything tagged with 'neocameralism' on Land's XenoSystems.net.

This is also a good neocameralist resource: https://antinomiaimediata.wordpress.com/2016/12/28/neocameralist-scrap-note-1/

>But if "a commercial confederation of competing techno-feudal micro-autocracies" means what it sounds like it is all of the worst parts of Anarcho Capitalism and all the worst parts of Communism wrapped up in one. But I assume you think that the dollar of the buyer would act as a vote and you are fine with the class division because you believe you would be on top. You wouldn't be.

Basically, in neocameralism instead of large states we have city-states owned by sovereign corporations; a don't need a share in that corporation for my satisfaction; I want good governance, period. I guarantee you that if Tucson (where I live) was run by a SovCorp it would be immeasurably better than it is now (although it is better than some decayed prog-ravaged husks I have seen).

>>7764754
I would expect there to be a lot of them. But my highschool didn't have that and I went to a trade school. I can usually keep up here though because I try to be well read and come correct.

>>7764769
Still going to read it so I can either be proven wrong or be better at telling you why this is retarded, but yeah, this sounds hella retarded.

>>7764690
>There's really no reason to believe that people want to orient society based on proprietarian competition of whoever can come up with some stupid fucking gadget. A system like that would strip power and direction away from regular people into the hands of technocrats that are going to be too busy facilitating exploitation to improve the lives of most. It would cause nihilism to be embedded even deeper into society and would bring about the culmination of dehumanization through hyper-rationality.

Sounds good. I said elsewhere that I care fuck all for anthropocentric economics.

This is my position:

>http://www.xenosystems.net/right-on-the-money-2/

>http://www.xenosystems.net/great-decoupling/

>>7764787

>this sounds hella retarded.

Why?

>>7764800
You are proposing a world of Detroits.

>>7764736
Pretty interesting that you would think that, I've actually never done debate

>>7764807

The fuck? Detroit is as ultra-democratic as you get without going full Leninist. I am proposing a world of Hong Kongs and Monacos.

>>7764813
maybe i'm just tired, nevermind.

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>>7764788
>anthropocentric economics

Holy shit the levels of ideology here

I think our conceptions of reality and basic axioms are too different to facilitate any useful discussion so I'm just gonna go ahead and stop posting

>>7764819
Brilliant lack of understanding of a reference.

Though I hope you know that Hong Kong is pretty obsessed with achieving democracy.

I suggest you read anything but this dribble and you'll see why it is extremely counter-intuitive to reality.

And anything akin to rights are hella fucked in a society like that.

>>7764838

>Though I hope you know that Hong Kong is pretty obsessed with achieving democracy.

The Demos are but administration is having none of it (fortunately).

>I suggest you read anything but this dribble and you'll see why it is extremely counter-intuitive to reality.

I don't know about that: Hoppe's work on time-preference seriously calls into question if democracy can ever achieve good governance; a low-IQ democratic society is doomed.

>And anything akin to rights are hella fucked in a society like that.

Then why do anti-democratic Anglo-Chinese micro-states always get top-slot on economic freedom indexes?

>>7764868
If you really think that is what makes those places great you are as bad as the MGTOW who think Trump will reinstate patriarchy. They are great for their freedoms, and we know what Feudalism has looked like in the past. No freedoms.

>low IQ
You seem to have no fucking clue just how telling that statement is, as well as how little IQ can tell about intelligence. I don't mean street smarts/book smarts either. I mean the test is kinda shit.

>>7764868
Because their entire existence is predicated on the demands of "free" trade?
You realize the actual Chinese people that controlled those places did not want any of that stuff there initially, it was imposed on them with violence

>>7764884
People also want to take it away from them with violence. It is pretty fucked up.Also, this guy, not likely to give a fuck about the human suffering thing.

>>7764882

>If you really think that is what makes those places great you are as bad as the MGTOW who think Trump will reinstate patriarchy. They are great for their freedoms, and we know what Feudalism has looked like in the past. No freedoms.

Russia was actually freer under Tsarism than under communism. That said, democracy is deleterious for economic freedom because its high time-preferences and lowest-common-denominator populism incentivizes high-tax and high-regulation policies.

>how little IQ can tell about intelligence.

Bullshit: IQ correlates with everything from life expectancy to national wealth; it is a tremendously useful sociological tool.

>>7764884

>You realize the actual Chinese people that controlled those places did not want any of that stuff there initially, it was imposed on them with violence

Anglo colonialism did nothing wrong. Cecil Rhodes has a based homo, you know.

>>7764978
You're an idiot who spews random shit without understanding what it is you're talking about. I am done, not because I am intimidated, not even because I am lazy, but because I hope you achieve this goal and then realize how shit it is.

>>7764907

>Also, this guy, not likely to give a fuck about the human suffering thing.

Das rite. Is it possible that I am an android sent from a post-human future to terminate The Human Security System?

>>7764993

Not an argument.

>>7765002
Highly unlikely.

>>7765011
No shit. It was me saying I was done. This bull shit is not worth my time.

>>7765030

>No shit. It was me saying I was done. This bull shit is not worth my time.

So I win?

>>7765050
Did you win in the "who's gonna outlast who in a shitty 4chan thread"?
yes you did

Did you actually change anyone's mind or affect the world in any meaningful way?
no not really

so idk the "win" thing is up to you because no one cba to dispute it

>>7765091

Ayy lmao.

>>7765050
This >>7765091

Making me hate your and your ideology I was actually curious about for a second is what you accomplished. So good job. You win.

>>7765151

>Making me hate your

*you

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>>7765050
It's strange. Somehow I knew somebody that comes out with the kind of stuff you do would be concerned with "winning" arguments on the internet

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>>7763584
>I didn't say heterosexuality
Yeah, you said "heteronormativity," which is a bullshit term that means, "how dare we acknowledge that 97% of the planet isn't queer."

>yes I actually do think there is something wrong in such a case, it means you are an oversensitive whiner
The lack of self-awareness is stunning.

Take a good fucking look at pic related. Realize that MOST OF THE PLANET is composed of "oversensitive whiners" who would tell you to go fuck yourself if you tried this shit in THEIR lands.

Whites (especially North/Western Euro) have the lowest clannishness on the planet, and are MOST LIKELY to care about another race's pain...even though that favour is virtually never returned.

>If you actually go as far as to appealing to white supremacy then that is more reason to think wrong of you
Nobody "appealed" to white supremacy; grow the fuck up and engage an argument without slandering or wildly misrepresenting your opponent.

>And what is left omitted exactly from a previous government official saying this?
Oh please, don't make me pull out historic quotes form Jews on manipulating and controlling Gentiles. That'll make this fun if you want to go there.

>What is missing from republicans pinning for ID laws that they've research would target minorities and democrats the most?
Nice try. I happen to live in a part of the world which has voter ID laws. Like MOST CIVILIZED COUNTRIES that take voting seriously.

At this point, America is on the verge of a Second World country LARPing as a First. Nobody is going to take your opportunistic garbage about voter ID laws "marginalizing" people seriously, since we all know that you just use the lack of them to let people illegally vote Democrat.

Get your shit together.

>Ah yes the "everyone is just brainwashed unlike me" trope.
Realizing everything I've ever been told about my people is a vicious lie is, after all, my lived experience.

>>7765300
They backed off of me after about calling me a Nazi, so do please, fucking humiliate them. it is a little personal at this point.

>>7764882
>You seem to have no fucking clue just how telling that statement is, as well as how little IQ can tell about intelligence. I don't mean street smarts/book smarts either. I mean the test is kinda shit.
You have no idea how quickly this kind of statement reveals you to be completely ignorant of the topic. You're so far behind the current literature on human intelligence that your understanding quite literally predates my own birth. Nice job.

>You can't explain something like pic related with just biology and history
You clearly don't know the related biology and history, because of course you can. "Social forces" might help fill in some details; but the bulk of the explanation lies in biology (not to mention that most "social forces" are best-explained by starting with a basic understand of how genetics shape our societies), and you will always be looking at picture on the puzzle box upside down without it.

>And before you say any other stupid shit about privilege I'll have you know that I am a white male and I genuinely think that most things SJWs and such say are mostly accurate.
I'm a white guy who wasted half my life AS an SJW.

As the song says, that don't impress me much.

>>7765342
I'd say they're doing a fine job of embarrassing themselves, tho.

>>7765384
The fuck are you on about? Already said I was done with this discussion with the other guy. Triple done with somebody who wants to come in after that and assume I am an SJW for thinking your autocracies are stupid bull shit.

>>7765384
Also, whoops, the bottom two parts were meant for >>7759944.

>>7757463
fpbp

>>7765397

You said IQ is meaningless (which is bullshit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6KChi90nHs