A friend of mine is a substitute teacher and was telling me about

>>7751289
In first grade, no, they should only be taking blockers if anything. I doubt they're actually on hormones.

>>7751289

Is your friend sure the kid isn't just taking hormone blockers? But even first grade is early for that. Unless the kid was growing breasts, there is virtually no chance that kid is taking estrogen.

>>7751289
>he told me that kind of bothered me is that this little girl, a first grader, a child, is taking hormones this early on
That's not even remotely happening. They only give kids puberty blockers, not hormones, and certainly not in the first grade.

>>7751289
>is taking hormones this early on

Do you know for a fact that they are taking hormones or are you guessing?

>>7751302
>>7751306
>>7751307
I stand corrected. It must have been blockers then. I apologize. But regardless is first grade too early to be taking anything like that? Before they even hit puberty they're taking this stuff?

>>7751289
you wouldnt take hormones before natural puberty would really start

>>7751317
Not really. Blockers wont do anything except block sex hormones, which is basically what was going to happen in a few years anyway.

I don't see why they'd be giving them blockers at that age since there wont really be an testosterone to avert, but it wont harm them in anyway. If anything I'd assume that if that story was true then the child was only getting blockers because they were severely anxious about when their puberty would start or looked like they might have an early puberty.

>>7751311
I know for a fact she was taking something and i'm pretty sure it involved the word hormones. But this is all 2nd hand coming from my friend who is the substitute teacher not me.

>>7751317
I don't think the kid is even on blockers. It's too early for those to be necessary or even do anything.
All that's happening at this age is the kid dresses like a girl and has a girl's name and people are expected to use she/her pronouns and treat her like a girl, and she's probably seeing a therapist.

>>7751317
no its not, it can make a difference between being a girl and being a girl whose body gets raped and pillaged by testosterone. as an ugly tranny, i might just throw hands if i ever hear some fuck shit like this irl

>>7751374
It's first grade though. Ages 6-7 so very pre-puberty.

>>7751374
oh i'm so sorry. Is what i'm saying offensive? I'm really not trying to sound negative here. Alright so first grade isn't too early to be taking stuff? That's all I was asking. Sorry for angering you.

>>7751317
like another anon said, it could be that she's really anxious

>>7751403
they're being ridiculous, your question is fine
i'd trust the doc's judgement on this one

>>7751403
Nothing you've said is offensive, that anon is just crazy.
I still don't think the kid is on anything at that age, but if she is, she is seeing an endocrinologist, and having her hormone levels monitored on a regular basis.

>>7751403
nah sorry its not offensive, i imagine it might seem unusual or concerning, but ye, that kid is relatively lucky. personally i would sacrifice everything and everyone in my life to have gotten on puberty blockers, and probably not even that early

>>7751289
They are probably not on blockers and they give blockers all the time that age for precocious puberty. There are no

>>7751289
You should only be taking things that so severely effect your body if youre old enough to be capable of making that decision

Id say only 15+ should be able to take hormones and blockers

Im aware that blockers dont really do shit if youve already started puberty, but that doesnt change the fact that in no way is it moral to allow young children to make decisions like that. Its a shitty situation and it sucks but that doesnt change what is right and whats wrong.

>>7751403
Stop apologizing so much
You have a right to your own opinions and emotions

It isnt your job to make everyone else feel good
You dont need to feel responsible for how people feel unless theyre youre family or under your care

Dont let the people here walk all over you

>>7751649
>You should only be taking things that so severely effect your body if youre old enough to be capable of making that decision
So every child should be forcibly put on blockers until 15 so a change as severe as puberty doesn't occur? That sounds kinda excessive.

>>7751649
yeah, we wouldnt want to help them and upset mother nature

>>7751664
Its not about mother nature you dipshit

Its about the fact that mentally children are not capable of making decisions of that magnitude. Kids often can have wrong perceptions and are influenced incredibly easily. and they see important shit with much less severity. Kids tend to not fully understand the heavy consequences of some things.

You wouldnt have an 8 year pick their career for the rest of their life and hold them to it. You wouldnt let an 8 year old marry. You wouldnt let an 8 year make literally any other medical decision, but in this ONE thing since youre biased and regretful youre going to open up kids potentially fucking up in a major way that will stay with them for life?

Im trans, its not like I dont understand the feeling. But you either dont understand kids, or you just dont give a fuck and the only kids you care about are the few transgender ones that recognize what they are effectively

Im trans as well, it isnt like I dont understand the feeling

>>7751655
Puberty isnt a decision

Choosing to stop it is a decision, as is choosing to alter it.

Youre essentially arguing that gender/sex is a choice, and ignoring the fact that 99% of the population will be 100% fine with what they are born as

>>7751693
I see what you're saying. I met a nice lesbian couple who had a baby and I asked the babies name and if they had a son or daughter. One of them scoffed at me and said "They haven't decided their preferred pronoun yet or their gender identity." I just smiled and nodded. That was... weird.

>>7751693
not the person you're replying to but I knew I was mentally a male and physically a female from as far back as 5. I felt trapped in my body. It's like a cage.

>>7751693
>but in this ONE thing since youre biased and regretful youre going to open up kids potentially fucking up in a major way that will stay with them for life?
are you actually retarded
you're telling me that these parents who have no fucking clue what gender dysphoria feels like should be fucking up their kids irreversibly?
in this situation where action and inaction have equal potential to damage, the person who is actually going to feel the damage should decide

>>7751693
Inaction is a decision too.

>Youre essentially arguing that gender/sex is a choice,
Uh, I'm not. I was just pointing out how ridiculous your argument is.
>and ignoring the fact that 99% of the population will be 100% fine with what they are born as
Soooo... what? Maybe 0.001% of them will ever be put on reversible blockers, decide it's not for them and resume their natural puberty. But apparently they're inherently more valuable than the majority of people who get puberty blockers and then lead a happy transitioned life?

>>7751700
yeah that is a little weird and extreme. I'm friends with a girl I went to highschool with who was always very into feminism and everything. And I mean the extremist feminism that give the rest of us feminists a bad name. They got a sperm donor and pregnant. Made facebook posts about hoping for a daughter and what not. Ended up with a son. Feel like that kid might have a messed up childhood before they figure themselves out.

>>7751700
I think thats honestly neglectful

Your kid has a 99% chance of being cis, by raising them to be "neutral" youre almost certainly just castrating them in a mental sense, youre not allowing them to grow in the way that best suits what their gender almost certainly actually is

Trans kids show quite a lot of resistance, you dont need to go full progressive parenting to just let your kid pick whether they want the dino or the barbie

If your kid is trans you will certainly know, dont set them up to potentially wrongfully think they are because to them theyre just kids so nothing is as serious or meaningful as it is to an adult, unless they actually have a severe problem

But then even trans kids will have issues recognizing themselves because there wont be the pressure of feeling wrong when everything is neutral and grey. We'll all just be blobs and unaware of ourselves or what we innately are.

>>7751720
You did and I did, but we live in an age wheres it become much more in the public eye and accepted,kids have a lot more access to the internet. A little boy who is just a normal little boy will hear about trans girls, think to himself he likes barbies so he might be a trans girl (because when young they dont fully understand the implications of gender, especially if they arent trans so theres never been a mental conflict to deal with), and since everyone is so accepting now he'll get blockers and hormones and...You can see where Im going with this. By allowing young children to make decisions like that you just invite more people into the confusion and fuckery.

>>7751724
99%
The parents are not fucking up their kids, Im trans, I didnt get blockers or hormones and Im a happy person.

We dont let kids make any medical decisions, even if theyre the ones who are affected by their illness.

>>7751730
Trans kids with blockers and hormones will still have problems
Cis kids can gain new problems they would have never had

Theres a difference

>>7751824
>Trans kids with blockers and hormones will still have problems
>Cis kids can gain new problems they would have never had
Cis kids would get a lower position in society and gender dysphoria, one of these things is preventable in the trans kid as it is with the cis kid

>>7751877
Except it isnt preventable with the trans kid
Even when everything is as close it can be to what a transperson wants, the reality is we can never fully be what we feel
So even a 100% passing happy trans person will still experience some pain because of it, even if only occasionally

Its only partially fixable

Yet we can avoid any problem at all in the cis kid

Also, we must prioritize the safety and happiness of the majority over the minority if the two are at odds

>>7751824
>We dont let kids make any medical decisions, even if theyre the ones who are affected by their illness.

not really related but still kind of. I remember one of those internet shit storms from a few years ago about that exact thing. A little kid was terminally ill or basically terminal with VERY LITTLE chance of living. The parents let them decide what to do. They said "do you want to keep trying or do you want to go meet jesus?" the kid chose Jesus. People were fucking brutal and it was really messed up. Atheists attacking them, people saying a child doesn't understand death fully, but you know what they do understand? All that fucking pain and suffering they were in. They didn't want to keep fighting a fight they couldn't win. But yeah a kid decided their own medical treatment or lack thereof and people were saying the parents should have.

>>7751387
I'll knock you the fuck out bitch catch me outside

>>7751387
oops i didn't mean to reply to you but this
>>7751649

>>7751904

Choosing to not administer treatment for a terminal illness is a very different situation though

>>7751887
We aren't choosing one; I want power in the hands of the kids the decision will affect instead of the parents who it will not. Following your logic I think it should be legal for parents to force their children to take hormones or blockers against their will. You think there's a difference between action and inaction here when there really isnt any you can explain.

>>7751951
oh yeah i'm not trying to compare it. Just that sentence you said made me think about it. Kids deciding on medical treatment and what not. Whatever not related ignore me.

>>7751951
no tranny has ever killed themselves before right
its not like this is one of the disorders that causes other disorders like a chain reaction

>>7751980
So youre telling me that if a transperson is 15 or even 18 and is immediately allowed to go on hormones/blockers, and even while young were encouraged and accepted by their family, and if society on the whole is neutral to this person instead of inherently against them...They'll still kill themselves because they didnt get to make a lifelong medical choice concerning the permanent state of their body at age 8?

>>7752001
Also Im taking a fucking bath you cunts, fuck this board every time I come here I leave it angry

>>7752011
with bubbles? I like bubble baths. Oh also have you heard of a store called lush? Get a bath bomb from there. They're awesome.

>>7751351
Probably just your friend being a raging Trump supporting bigot.

He made up the story about her taking hormones, because he's so enraged.

>>7751693
>Puberty isnt a decision
>Choosing to stop it is a decision, as is choosing to alter it.
Yeah, and letting somebody die during a surgery or accident isn't a "decision either", actually fully performing the surgery or helping the person in the accident would be a decision...

To not call an ambulance for somebody in a life threatening situation isn't a decision either, it's only a decision if you do call the ambulance.

In reality, if the option exist to do something, you're making a decision.
When puberty can be stopped, it's a decision to not stop it.

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>>7752001
i started hrt at 19, i often want to die because im a testosterone deformed leper of a girl

>>7754296
actually about 18.75, so yeah

>>7754296
You just look like a Jewish girl. Wash your face more often, smile more, you'll be fine.

There are cis girls born with noses like that who also want to die, there are naturally very ugly people who want to die

If the rest of your life is good then id tell ya that this is a fixable problem if you pay for it and if you dont then it doesnt have to be a problem

>>7754296
you are such a miserable asshole that you would feel that way even if you looked like the perfect woman. So many trannies think their life would be magically great if they were the idealized version of whatever gender they want to be.

>>7754296
There are cis girls in your exact position who just get rhinoplasty to fix their noses, you should just get that and a brow shave and you'll be fine.

>>7751693
uncle hon(tom)

>>7751693
>Its about the fact that mentally children are not capable of making decisions of that magnitude

I'm so tired of this. I'm SO. TIRED. OF THIS. I can't believe there's even some trans people that make this argument. What is wrong with you people? Thank god doctors are increasingly not idiots.

Children's development is incredibly variable and individual. Something which is a smart choice for one kid could be an utter disaster for another. A kid who is uncertain about transitioning should absolutely not. A kid who is consistently and intensely vocal about hating their natal sex should AT LEAST be allowed to take blockers until mid-puberty to give them time to decide,

And then, YES, they can decide. YES, before 18. There are/have been many cultures throughout our human history in which teenagers drank, got married, had children, etc. Of course someone in their mid-teens can make a decision as to whether or not they want to transition (preferably with some unpressured counseling).

What part of, "extreme discomfort with your natal sex is NOT NORMAL and there's no good reason to assume said kid is cis" do people not get? We're not just talking about being a "sissy" or a "tomboy" here, I mean a kid who strenuously insists they are the opposite gender. That is NOT normal cis behaviour, and refusing to allow them to transition because "they might really be cis after all and the needs of the majority come first" is fucking insane.

Erring on the side of caution DOES NOT MEAN always deferring transition to adulthood, it means making the best decision for each INDIVIDUAL child based on their level of distress.

>>7751904
I remember that. The conservative area I live in basically defended allowing the kid to choose. That kid was like 11ish, if I remember correctly.

These same people don't think a 15-year-old can pick E or T.

>>7752001
Possibly, yeah. I almost did.

>>7751317
you want to make sure you hit blockers before any puberty happens. this should also be done to all children btw, so they can make an informed decision about what hormones to take when they're old enough

>>7758679
>all children
That's fucking nonsense. I'm all for treating trans kids as early as you can, but there's absolutely no reason for 99% of kids to be on blockers.

>>7758702
no it really isn't. plenty of people miss the boat, and plenty of cis people would be able to choose their preferred hormone cocktail.

Crazy people on the coasts do this kind of shit, you never see this in the middle of the country. You will see however people beating their kids with a belt for the littlest reason. the entire country sucks ass

>>7751289
Yes, I think it's more or less okay.

The biggest fuss gets made about hormone blockers. And those do envelop the most unnatural effects.

That age is too low for blockers, so it would imply taking estrogen without blockers, evading those effects. For the moment.

>>7758631
Too young to have sex, too young to change it. I don't give a fuck how tired you are of it.

>we used to be fine with letting minors get drunk before we impregnated them
Congratz. You and Muhammad can discuss that together. Mid-teens, quite possibly. Fucking 8? Hell no!

>"extreme discomfort with your natal sex is NOT NORMAL and there's no good reason to assume said kid is cis"
You don't assume jack shit. You take them to a fucking psychologist. And then another two to make sure you didn't get a crack pot. It isn't, "Oh, little Timmy wants to be a little Sussie? Get the fucking equipment!"

15~ sure, but -12? Oh fuck no!

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>>7752067
Fuck you asshole, what the fuck gets into you to give you the nerve to have to make everything about being a trump supporting biggot and implying that being a trump supporting biggot is enough to make someone that stupid?

>>7758679
Fuck you.

>>7758748
Well we do live in NJ which is the coast.

>>7758777
>Too young to have sex, too young to change it.
What planet do you live on where 15 is too young to have sex?

>Fucking 8?
Did you even read the fucking thread? No kid gets hormones at eight. It absolutely doesn't happen.

>You don't assume jack shit. You take them to a fucking psychologist.
That's literally the first step, you stupid asswipe.

Tape your mouth shut and your fingers together if you don't know a single goddamn thing about the subject. No one gives a shit about your strong opinions based on zero knowledge.

>>7758758
Hormone blockers are perfectly safe, what are you talking about? They are given to cisgender children to prevent early puberty, and cis kid safely take them for years.

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>>7751289
it was probably just blockers, yeah, and pic related is what happens if you don't start them early enough. you end up like me, a depressed ugly tranny who nobody sees as female, is suicidal constantly, and contributes nothing to society. the effects of blockers are reversible and they cause no damage, so there's every reason kids should be allowed to start them as early as possible.

>>7758799
My sister to the left, me to the right

>>7758799
left is better

>>7759682
FFS needs to be covered by the state.

>>7751289
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFG1NFFoXmM