So today I came aross this. What is everyone's thoughts

Shit. I forgot to set the subject line.

"Transwomen are Not Biologically Male ?"

>>7745762
All this person says is absolute garbage, I can't believe there are people unironically take this him/her seriously.

>>7745776
Sounds like the hon partly line. Makes it more justifiable and natural to be a hon

Do you use this to justify barging into spaces and making little girls cry with your ape body.

it's obviously wrong but it's also necessary to do this shit to push the overton window in the right direction

>>7745776
It isn't about "feeling" like something hon, it's about changing your body and biology.

>>7745762
wtf is this thing even talking

did it have biology classes as a kid?

>>7745826
Uh, you're almost certainly the ban dodging pedophile. I'm coming home up with strong matches in the archive for most of his shit in your spiel there.

Will check more but you're almost certainly not allowed in 4chan. Get ready to kick him out everyone.

>>7745806
I don't follow what you are trying to say here.

I am trans, and I feel ashamed of being "biologically male" That being said. I do some some sense in the argument that if your hormone levels are female, and your brain is female, then to a degree you are "Biologically" female.

However, I also recognize the usefulness as a descriptive term to say that transwomen are women who were born biologically male. (Even if we consider ourselves to now be biologically female, I think denying that the past exists is folly)


I will admit that I am partially stealth and feel guilt about it pretty frequently. There is a friend I made recently who is also bi and amazing. We have a ton in common and is just a great friend.

However they initially said they were looking for women to befriend (I met them through an online dating site. I have a girlfriend and so does she so its just friend stuff) That being said I can't help but wonder if she would think of me differently if I told her I was trans. :/

>>7745826
And it checks for the pedophile. Get the ban dodger out of here everyone.
>>7745852
You'd better have an excuse for you came back to shitpost. As is you deserve no use of 4chan whatsoever.

>>7745762
They aren't, transwomen would be technically intersex.

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>>7745876
>>7745762

Hormones controll most biological processes right down to regulating how long your mitochondria stay alive.

Some sort of artificial intersex isn't inaccurate

>>7745876
>>7745897
I would be happier calling myself intersex than biologically male living as a female.

I also suspect that I actually partially am, given how low my doses are and how effective they have been (I only take 50mg spiro daily for the last 17 months)

She places an over-emphasis on secondary sex characteristics, when in reality, they do not define sex at all. It's the genitalia and chromosomes that make biological sex what it is. And even if you change those, it is worth noting that they are only synthetic, and do not perform the same reproductive roles.

>>7745897
>>7745762
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593138/
Not kidding about estrogen and testosterone making mitochondria radically different right down to growth rates and how they metabolize drugs.

That means even hormone popping femboys will be radically different from normal males on the cellular and sub cellular level.

>>7745916

No, you can't call yourself Intersex. Intersex is where hormones + genitalia = mismatch. Like XX but born with a penis, or having Klinefelter Syndrome.

You are trans. You might not like the terms used to describe you, but that is what terms accepted by the scientific community are. Deal with it.

>>7745922
>>7745762

Chromosomes don't define or even control sex. That's basic bio, and we now know it's autosomal genes getting turned on or off that control sex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):

Primary sex also means producing egg or sperm and someone who medically transitioned will produce neither so neutral on that.

>>7745864
I kinda agree with the usefulness in describing trans women as women who were born male. It sort of kicks the leg out from under assholes that will use that fact to screw with us. If we own up to it and define the language for it ourselves, on our own terms, we'll have a more solid platform to go on.

>>7745943
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):

What terms? Some guy who flunked out of freshman year uni is not the sci community.

>>7745953
Gender is fake so body is all we can work with. That means if you're a man, you're a creepy man no matter what you feel like and should get the fuck out.

Everyone who's legit heavily modifies their body because they can't stand being hons like you.

>>7745953
You realize 20 something states are passing laws restricting ID changes and bathroom acess to biology.

So if you admit you're biologically a man and don't want to change that then you'd better stay out of the women's and get used to having your license say M.

>>7745963
You're that delusional BDD tranny from the therapist thread aren't you? You sound paranoid.

>>7745973
>You realize 20 something states are passing laws restricting ID changes and bathroom acess to biology.

Then move to a better state then. The American south is pretty much a third world country anyway. And bathroom bills are largley unenforceable. Also you better provide a source about the restricting of ID changes or I'm gonna call bullshit.

>So if you admit you're biologically a man and don't want to change that then you'd better stay out of the women's and get used to having your license say M.

I seriously doubt that any trans woman here is comfortable with being biologically male and has no wishes to change it to the fullest extent possible. The problem is that they can't fully change it no matter how many surgeries they get or how much hormones they take. Despite this, there's no reason to not allow mtfs to change their documents to list them as female or allow them into women's restrooms. Keeping them from changing their legal sex marker does more harm than good and as long as they aren't blatantly creeping on anyone or assualting someone, excluding them is little more than a pointless exercise in paranoia and sexist stereotypes.

>>7745762
This is the same fake tranny that put out the video about "if you don't have sex with trans you're discriminating". It's fake.

>>7746072
Kansas is the one that's blocking birth certificate and license changes. Texas already did that for birth certificate and many states already base license on birth certificate. Many more are pushing these laws.

Gender doesn't exist so body is all that matters. If you are biologically a man then you're a man. So it's impossible to be trans unless that's addressed.

>largley unenforceable
Trespassing is the most typical penalty attached to the bills, some make it worse. And given how complacent you are about your body and don't want to fix it, you'll probably slip up and without the protection of an ID, you'll go to jail.

>>7745826
>doctors wrongly prescribing resassignment surgery instead of counseling and medication

I'll never not have my mind blown with people being so fucking presumptuous you think any trans person that's going to have SRS or even go on hormones doesn't already go through therapies and counseling. Nice false equivalence with phantom limbs though you armchair psychologist fuck.

My thought is that Riley is cute as fuck and I wish he wasn't crazy. He'd be a perfect femboy.

>>7746131
Well Kansas is a shithole. Good thing I don't live in Kansas. Also you're full of shit. I live in Texas and I can tell you that id and birth certificate changes are allowed, you just need either SRS, a court order and maybe a good lawyer. My friend got both documents changed and didn't even need to get SRS. Nice source you got there btw.

>Gender doesn't exist so body is all that matters. If you are biologically a man then you're a man. So it's impossible to be trans unless that's addressed.

Well if you wanna go by that then you *are* a man. You'll never be able to fully change your sex no matter what you do. Just calm down, get your documents changed, get whatever surgeries you want to satisfy your dysphoria and BDD, and take your titty skittles. It's the closest you're ever going to get to being a natal female.

Also don't be so presumptuous and assume out of the blue that I'm complacent with how my body is and have no desire to change it. You don't know me and making such baseless personal accusations makes you look like a delusional and bitter moron.

>>7746331
You're complacent and you said you acept being a man and you're happy with being a man, you shouldn't be allowed to socially transition, it's wrong.
>Texas
Guess what other bill they're about to sign into law? We'll see if you're that proud about being a man then.

>>7745762
i'm sorry but anyone with a modicum of medical knowledge would know that sex discrepancies exist beyond the 5 he has mentioned. Sure, a male who has transitioned into a "female" through the use of hormones and surgery might resemble a female, and have SOME similar biology, but their bone density, organs, and several cellular processes will never be that of a biological female.

I don't get why these lunatics argue with science, or why people accommodate it, it's complete idiocy.

Sure, i do feel for these people, i'm very happy with my birth sex and to feel the need to transition into an imitation at best must be hard, but that's life. I wish i was better looking, but i'm not, that's life

I support trans people, and their rights, but when they proclaim these idiotic theories and expect people to agree, i just can't. This guy is honestly one of the most idiotic YouTubers i have ever seen.

As Blaire White put it "i'm a male choosing to live as a female" and that's all you will ever be, a biological male choosing to live as a female

>>7745762
It doesn't matters desu

>>7746349
LMAO you're actually that delusional? I never said any of that. And that idiotic bathroom bill won't affect me anyway cause I've already had my documents changed, pass consistently irl and live in a fairly liberal area on top of all that. Have fun with your BDD tho. Good luck butchering yourself as much as possible to be a """real""" woman.

>>7746409
You know 90% of these types of posts are made by trans girls when they get bored from MTFG.

>>7746239
Aren't they a transwoman? (although doing no work on the voice/passing in general)

hence not 'he' lol

>>7746455
I honestly hope she's just trolling. She sounds legit crazy. Kinda feel bad for her desu.

>>7746398
>But their bone density, and several cellular processes will never be that of a biological female

And it looks like you just proved you have no medical knowledge.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593138/

http://jrci.cgpublisher.com/product/pub.301/prod.4/m.2/fid=1836884/R15_47780_RaceTimesforTransgenderAthletes_FinalOF.pdf?

You're mentally ill honestly, having no higher education and being contradicted by every biomed study but assuming your delusions some how superseded those.

>>7746409
>won't affect me anyway
Like you said, your liberal friends baby you. You don't pass near as well as you think you do.

>>7745864
I just mean that as long as people are so spooked as to assign value and justify treating trans people like shit to these things like "what is the REAL bio sex of trannies" and "are trans women women or men" then it makes sense to push further and further in favor of obviously dumb shit like "trans women are 100% biologically female." making concessions is dumb when there are no concessions coming from the other side

>>7746630
Stop evading a ban, you'll only make it worse when they get back,

>>7746630
> /b/ should be used as examples of common, average people
I don't even need to explain what's wrong with this. You KNOW what's wrong with this.

> Chris-chan should be used as an example of a common, average person
Chris-chan also makes the rest of the Sonic fandom look like Yale alumni by comparison, so maybe don't use him for an example?

>>7746722
Honestly cutting slits in their balls now its a vagina? Literally no trans i know does this shit.

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Get some Blaire White into your life.

>>7747166
no thanks
nothing against her, just not politically engaged

>>7745806
>Scientifically false statements will surely prove that trannies sre biologically female.

No.
Try again.

>>7747179
She discusses trans issues including quite a few episodes dealing with the youtuber in your op.

>>7745826
Even if reassignment surgeries were horrible, believe you me the original treatment was worse. Typical Anti-Psychotics sound nice because of the word typical, but no. They were like chemical lobotomies.

@7747226
>not being able to read will surely result in comprehension

No.
Try again.

>>7745762
What pic is saying is, essentially, that transwomen are freaks, which means they're no longer truly "male".

All i can say to that is that it's not even wrong. That's how bad it is.

>>7746407
>It doesn't matters desu
This.

>>7745806
>it's obviously wrong but it's also necessary to do this shit to push the overton window in the right direction
You don't think lying and presenting trans issues as important for false reasons can backfire?

>>7745762
As a bi guy you are all men. You just look like women. Stop justifying it just ignore people you hate.

>>7745806
this harms questioners.

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And here we see the cry of the wild Hon. In it's fruitless search for a mate, it must rely on increasingly desperate cries such as this one here.
>Transwomen are not biologically male.
Come winter, it will surely die alone without ever breeding.

>>7745762

I was thinking about this the other day. I'm completely ok with trans people, just as long as they identify as trans. Like if you're a MtF you should identify as a trans-woman, not a woman.

>>7745762

Of course trans are not biologically the gender they want to change to, how is this not clear by now?

Trans women should not be allowed on women toilets, it's retarded.

>>7748643
Yes and cis women are cis women, not women.

>>7748659
oh c'mon you get what I mean. They usually use the term women as their gender. they're trans-women.

>>7748658
Just don't be surprised to see manly bearded FTM use women toilet if that's your stance.

>>7748658
This! You can catch cooties from toilet seats!

>>7748673

Those people shouldn't even be allowed to roam the streets freely, imo.

>>7748664
>believing in snowflake genders
No, there are two genders.

>>7748678
So then you're saying they should identify as male?

>>7745762
If I remember correctly, the official science-y definition of male and female is that females are capable of producing the larger gametes for their species (egg cells) while males produce the smaller (sperm cells).
Post-op transsexuals lack the parts to produce either, so technically they wouldn't be considered either sex from a biological standpoint.

>>7748675
I agree! No AFAB person should roam streets without being accompanied by a man, it's such a shame only few countries have such laws.

>>7748682
Male is a sex, so no, nobody should identify as male gendered.

>>7748690
You extremist bigot it's female identifying people who shouldn't roam the streets without being accompanied by male identifying people.

>>7748691
So you're saying they're men with tits and long hair and make-up?

>>7748690

Yep, a bullet to the head will do the job just fine. Finally free from dysphoria, by golly!

>>7748692
We gotta be inclusive, make it both female-born and female-identifying.

>>7748693
>tits and long hair and make-up
Sounds like a woman to me.

Justin Dennis is a faggot hiding behind a disorder and making us all look like retards because he's too much of a pussy to accept that he's just a girly man.

>>7746469

No. Saying you're a trans woman doesn't magically make you a trans woman. Justin Dennis is just a stupid faggot.

>>7747934
>@7747226
wtf kind of newfaggotry is this?

>>7748664

'Trans' is a qualifier, 'transwoman' is not a real word, even if you hyphenate it.
Trans women are a type of woman, same as cis women or asian women or fit women.
Just like a 'trans person' means a person who is also trans, not a whole new type of person distinct from all other types of people.

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>>7745762
I totally agree with her

Riley is pretty great

Sex is a social construct just like gender, they're actually the same thing

>>7745762
Maybe if they put any effort into passing whatsoever, I would care about what they have to say.

>>7748773
t. mentally ill sheeple

>>7748686
There is no official science-y definition for male/female, it's a term that's been contested due to it's inconsistency

>>7748733
You realized she changed her name to Riley right?

>>7748776
>I should only care about people that look good
you're an idiot

>>7748778
t. stupid lazy 4chan poster that thinks their high school education is sufficient to understand complex topics

>>7748784
>You realized she changed her name to Riley right?
>she

You realise I don't give a fuck about Justin's LARPing, right?

>>7745953
>I kinda agree with the usefulness in describing trans women as women who were born male. It sort of kicks the leg out from under assholes that will use that fact to screw with us.


So true. I would/might even start using it for that reason alone.

>>7745762
Don't buy this delusional rubbish.

I consider myself fairly flexible when it comes to accepting peoples more silly ideas when it comes to what "trans" is but fuck this is dumb.

>>7748123
>>7748445
there is no good solution

>>7748746
it's to deny (You)s so as not to alert shitposters/retards to come back, but when you still want to make it clear what post you're replying to

>>7748914
How is that better than the truth?

>>7748914
>it's to deny (You)s so as not to alert shitposters/retards to come back, but when you still want to make it clear what post you're replying to
Fuck off nigger, (You)s are not your leddit upboats.

>>7746482
A tranny calling someone mentally ill

wew lad

How's life being a bio male knowing you'll never be a real female and society will never see you as anything but a bad imitation?

NEXT

>>7748924
because when you start off haggling at a compromise, you're going to get a shit deal. fight fire with fire. if they were reasonable you could be reasonable too.

@7748927
fuck off tard

>>7746915
But lgbt should? Yeah let's listen to a board full of psychopaths. You're sick, get help cunt.

Riley looks great, I don't know what else you guys want her to do to pass better aside from make up and working on her voice.

>>7745762
Lmao, while its true that we can change our Hormones, Genitals and Secondary Sex Characteristics, it doesn't change the fact that this was done artificial.
I need to keep taking my Hormones because my body produces the "wrong" ones by default.
I need to get a surgery to change my genitals (and after that surgery I only end up with an imitation of the real thing).
Only the Secondary Sex Characteristics in the form of breasts are real at my body. But again, I got them by altering my natural hormones.

TL;DR If I don't do anything, I am biologically male. It's the natural state of my body. Fiddling with the natural characteristics doesn't change my biological sex.

>tfw you wrote a multi-paragraph argument in support of Riley and everyone conveniently ignored it

>>7745762
This is an unpopular opinion but after you've been soaking on hrt for any significant amount of time you don't look anything like your birth sex and considering people as such is pretty absurd. I don't think hrt makes you into your identified sex but the truth is somewhere in the middle, being on hrt for any long amount of time makes a person closest to being intersex. You'll have sex characteristics of both genders and your genitals do change, ftm's will get enlargened clits and mtf's get softer and smaller erections and both become impotent.

>>7745762

They're definitely biologically male. Sex and gender are social constructs, yes, "man" and " woman" are both social constructs. They are names to group people together based on 'sex,' which yes, is a combination of different traits (chromosomes, genitals, etc).

There is no reason to redefine 'woman' and 'female' to include people with dicks, because that's what is being asked. No mtf really wants to live in a society that will only consider them women if they get grs. Many are fine with their dicks and want to avoid surgery.

therefore, riley's argument that as long as mtfs change some aspect of their sex they could be considered women is disingenuous. MANY mtfs don't want to change their sex at all - they want to be considered women no matter what they do. This includes not going on HRT too.

they're very annoying men who just want to control what everyone thinks of them.

mtfs are biologically male.

>>7748981
Keep insisting you know more than the science journals cause your GED. That's insanity, not being able to tell hard science from your delusions of grandure.

What's it like knowing we can pass and live a normal life but you're stuck as some wage slave bagboy?

Stick to what you can do, deluded fool

>>7749374
Gamete production is what makes someone male or female, mtfs produce no sperm.

Hormones are responsible for most biological differences right down to the cellular level https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593138/

Biologically from gametes and other secondary traits you can't say they're male, even is they aren't female either
>>7749084
You changed your biological traits though and can't produce sperm. Phenotype is what matters not what it could have potentially been

>>7749382
But I didn't really change it, if you cloned me, the clone would have all male characteristics again. I just suppress or artificially alter some aspects of my male biology but that doesnt mean that I am not biologically male anymore.

>>7749382
>Gamete production is what makes someone male or female, mtfs produce no sperm.

your definition of mtf is predicated on them being on hrt for years.

i'm saying that's disingenuous. they are fundamentally men who say they are women. hrt is not a requirement of their identity. a mtf will consider himself a mtf even without being on hrt. he will consider himself a mtf even if he produces sperm. advocacy for his legal rights have never included "mtfs are defined as not producing sperm" either.

so, you're wrong.

>Gamete production is what makes someone male or female

i disagree, there are many ways sex is defined and that is too narrow of a scope to be truthful.

>>7749400
It's literally how biological sex is defined though. You can't "disagree" with a fact. It's narrow because species vary so much you can't attribute more to it without it becoming useless because it doesn't apply to many of them anymore.

>>7749403

I was specifically referencing other ways we define male and female.

and again, they can produce sperm, and some man-identified men can't, so how is that really an accurate measurement of who is male and who isn't.

>>7749400
Gamete prodution is the only concrete rule of thumb. And anyone who isn't a hon or a liar uses HRT and a lot of body mod.

>>7749403
Your biology is phenotype. That's all that matters. That's why people who are entirely normal males or females genetically can biologically end up as the opposite because some of the autosomal sex determining genes weren't transcribed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/

>>7749395
>if you cloned me

So we're using future technology to prove a point now? At the point when they can clone you, they can just give you a functioning uterus and ovaries, and a lab-grown vagina.

>>7749410
They can't produce sperm after more than a little while on cypro. Even most femboys who aren't on their very specialized medicines can't produce sperm

>>7749574
No, I am using this Intellectual game to prove that at the very core I am still biologically a man.

>>7749591
Genetics are not the end all, be all of biology. That's the whole fucking point of this thread.

>>7749591
>>7749395
>>7749084
Femgen here, I like how you vindicated our ideology and simultaneously proved you're a man userping stuff this doesn't belong with you by virtue of caricaturish gender steryotypes.

If you're a man, then you shouldn't speak for women or impersonate one with your caricaturish behavior and make gender steryotypes even worse.

And to think, you say we're in denial or delusional or insane when you're literally men in dresses.

If we are alike, then this is proof we have the right path and you've just reduced yourself to a caricature.

>>7749630
so sick of male feminists tbqh

>>7749600
Chromosomes are basically our biological blueprints.
Everything we do, like taking hormones or getting surgers, doesn't change the most fundamental part, which determines if we naturally develope into a biological male or female.
I don't believe that us forcefully altering certain criteria changes anything in that regard.

>>7749630
> Femgen here, I like how you vindicated our ideology
Ive never browsed femgen and I am not familiar with your ideology.
> and simultaneously proved you're a man
I am saying that I am a man on a biological level.
> userping stuff
??
>this doesn't belong with you by virtue of caricaturish gender steryotypes.
I am a male with a mental disorder or some sort of twisted brain that causes me to behave more like women by default and that makes me believe that I should have been born a woman in the first place. I don't act like a stereotype but I see where you are coming from when I think about who represents trans people in public.
> And to think, you say we're in denial or delusional or insane
what are you talking about? Is there some mtfg <-> femgen war that I have missed?

>>7749577

This discussion is going in circles. Again, 'mtf' does not mean they're on hrt.

>>7749689
And men like >>7749591 are MRA who shamelessly take over women's spaces and impersonate or try to via ridiculous caricatures that make things worse for gender nonconformers.

You can use medicine to make your body as feminine as you need to live comfortably, but leave the blackface and steryotypes out.

I'm not doing this for women as much as I do it for other feminine makes you hurt.

>>7749752
>via ridiculous caricatures that make things worse for gender nonconformers.

Lol someone's salty

>>7749752

unless you have proof Franzi has mra beliefs AND is invading women's spaces then i think you should leave her alone.

it's usually the mtfs who think they're female that are mras. look up valerie keefe sometime.

>>7749752
>And men like >>7749591 are MRA who shamelessly take over women's spaces and impersonate or try to via ridiculous caricatures that make things worse for gender nonconformers.
TERF detected.

>>7749707
Chromosomes are not the blue prints, they're chunks of protein that hold DNA for Mitotic stuff and don't ever exist otherwise. They aren't genes and genes can't express when packed in them. It's chromatin otherwise.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):

First year bio teaches you chromosomes don't matter for shit. It's genes universal to all humans and how they're expressed that makes people male or female

Take a genetics course before you stick your foot in mouth

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DEUS VULT
...
oh...
I think i'm a bit late to the crusade

>>7749783

>femboys are terfs

'terf' is meaningless bullshit

>>7749723
Altering body is a prerequisite to be mtf, you want us to ignore the only basic trait just so you can have a strong argument

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>>7745762

uh i mean if we're being real here, this shim would be right in a world in which biology was different than it is.
biology is inherently transphobic in that it doesn't really account for transgender people in general.
it assigns genders via sex organs and doesn't take into account intersex individuals or anything.
if trans women are women, it should stand to follow that everything about them would be dictated female.
but again that's not the world we live in. so here in reality this shit makes absolutely no sense. but maybe in the future someday that'll change.
people used to think that blacks had diff kinds of diseases and were inherently weaker than whites because of our understanding (and racism) of biology at that time.
things evolve.

>>7749707
Even if you haven't the rest of you harass us and tell us we're alike.

And here you are admitting you are a man and thing gender steryotypes magically nullify that so long as you practice them.

I can't say how bad this insane caricature idea is for women and fem males.

No it doesn't make you not a man, gender is just steryotypes and body is the only thing that matters so at the end of the day you're still just a man pulling black face.
>>7749782
He goes in public like that and you all terrorize women in restrooms?

You're socially transitioning hon and that in itself is a caricature and won't make you any less of a man. You just do it knowing your a man but think some gender magic nullifies that , even worse than people who alter their body and think they aren't really men.

>>7749783
>>7749782
Femboyism is the only reasonable to apply what you know. It's much better to go ahead a look feminine but not embrace these ridiculous roles like you do hon.

>>7749852

>You're socially transitioning hon

i'm a straight woman. I was born with a vagina. not every mtf is going into women's spaces, and i don't know anything about Franzi so I'm giving her the benefit of doubt.

>>7749846
>if trans women are women, it should stand to follow that everything about them would be dictated female.

that's why some of them say 'penis is female if the person attached to it says they're female'

which is a subjective, individualistic view of a sociobiological construct shared by billions of people, but hey, that won't stop them

>>7746469
He's a perverted straight man who pushes the "you don't need to transition/have dysphoria to be trans" rhetoric, who is only in it for pussy.

So yes, he is a he through and through.

>>7749865
He's using the women's room if he's socially transitioned. Once you cross that line it becomes mockery and drags everyone down.

Does he use the mens, state that he's a man all the time? If not, it's black face and absurd caricatures knowing he's a man. He's probably another Perv like aoife that's taking you all for a ride, you need to stop excusing them.

>>7749792
Ok, chromosomes carry the blueprints. Doesn't make my point less valid. It's hairsplitting.

>>7749852
> Even if you haven't the rest of you harass us and tell us we're alike
Well, we do have things in common so we are alike to a certain degree. I wouldn't call that harassment.
> And here you are admitting you are a man and thing gender steryotypes magically nullify that so long as you practice them.
I am saying that most of my body is biologically male. That doesn't mean that I am a man, because my psyche vastly differes from that of a man.
> I can't say how bad this insane caricature idea is for women and fem males.
Which caricature idea? You use that all the time but I have no idea what you are talking about.
> No it doesn't make you not a man, gender is just steryotypes and body is the only thing that matters so at the end of the day you're still just a man pulling black face.
I don't think that the body is the only thing that matters. But if you want to go down that line of thought, my brain is part of my body, but the brains of trans people seem to be some weird mix of what is typical for either gender. So that part of my body isn't clear-cut.

>>7749897
If he isn't using pills he's gonna get ugly reall fast. Already has a horse face.

>>7749901
They don't carry blue prints. They're protein that sits as spageti 90% the time.

And it's genes common to all men and women that determine sex.

>>7749899

I get your point. i think most gc mtfs are laughable as fuck but honestly the bathroom thing isn't as important to me as a lot of the other stuff. but yeah, you're right.

>>7749901
>but the brains of trans people seem to be some weird mix of what is typical for either gender.

none of you get brain scans to access medical transition. there is no proof your brains are different before hrt affects them

>>7749913
> They don't carry blue prints.

> A chromosome is a packaged and organized structure containing most of the DNA of a living organism.
> Deoxyribonucleic acid is a molecule that carries the genetic instructions used in the growth, development, functioning and reproduction of all known living organisms

>>7749930
http://openmindedhealth.com/2012/01/transsexual-brain-studies/

> Crucially, this effect also does not appear to be due to HRT. First, several of the transsexual women had ceased HRT several years before death and their BSTc volumes were not different from those of the other transsexual women. Second, the subject pool included cissexual men and cissexual women whose adult hormones had changed (e.g., orchidectomy, menopause, adrenal tumors) and their BSTc volumes were in the cissexual male and cissexual female ranges, respectively.

>>7749901
>That doesn't mean that I am a man, because my psyche vastly differes from that of a man.
so you admit you are a man by every objective measurement but your logical feelings and blackface magically stop making it exist

That's the exact same thing perverts and other predators who terrorize others say. The worst, most selfish mentality.

And never mind that it doesn't just hurt women, putting it down to personality hurts feminine males immeasurably.

You're objectively a predatory entitled man, end of story.

>>7749899
>He's using the women's room if he's socially transitioned. Once you cross that line it becomes mockery and drags everyone down.

Going into the men's bathroom looking how I do now would drag everyone down, also I'd get confusing stares, be told that I'm in the wrong bathroom, etc. Using the women's restroom is more a matter of convenience and etiquette than a political statement.

>>7749945
>http://openmindedhealth.com/2012/01/transsexual-brain-studies/

wasn't zhou like 7 subjects? but that's interesting, thank you.

>>7749930
Looks at his
>That doesn't mean that I am a man, because my psyche vastly differes from that of a man.
It's ridiculous harmful and lends it's way to abuser mentality

I hate entitled people like him that think their whims rule over all

>>7749880

we live in a world where societal norms involving genitalia and gender identity have already been cemented down, so
though i think it's a bit delusional to challenge it i can understand where people are coming from on all sides.
i just don't see why people care so much. so what if you're biologically male or whatever other fucking thing. just live your life the way you want already lmao

>>7750000
>so what if you're biologically male or whatever other fucking thing. just live your life the way you want already lmao

Suicide is preferable to being biologically male, trannies understand this on some level, so they use these mental gymnastics so that they can continue living the way they want to.

>>7749955
>so you admit you are a man by every objective measurement but your logical feelings and blackface magically stop making it exist

Dude, I am mentally ill. I think and feel like I am female but obviously my logical sense tells me otherwise.

>>7749962
I just googled that, I didn't really read it desu.

>>7750000

but they're not just "living their life" - they're going into women's spaces and telling us abortion isn't a women's issue, or they're telling lesbians they're not real lesbians unless they like penis.

>>7749959
And I get that too and just cut my hair very short, wear stuff to signal male and use SERMs/reduce estrogen dose. People will then assume you're s young boy.

Instead he says he can be as manly as conceivable and can still invade and do all sorts of shit BC his feelings demand it

>>7750038
Why should I make myself look like an Aiden just to use a worse bathroom with fucking urinals.

>>7750007

>Suicide is preferable to being biologically male, trannies understand this on some level,
>i have a dick so i'm going to kill myself instead of trying to find some joy in my life

is this why ppl think we're all crazy

>>7750036

dude what kind of level 1 trolling is this lol

>>7750012
You "think and feel like a woman" or your caricaturish impersonation of one, but you're nothing more than a shave gorilla in heels

Your feelings and demands don't make you not be a man, and they don't justify hurting a frightening women or the people you hurt with these caricaturish roles. You caricature a woman but you are still a man

>>7750054
You are either a dedicated troll or a simple-minded terf

>>7750042
There's not actually any point in suicide except to maybe relieve pain, I was just saying that being born male makes us subhuman, and this feelgood "you're still a woman even if you look and sound like Riley and keep your dick" shit is just a defense mechanism to avoid facing the crushing reality of the situation.

>>7750058

who tf cares lmao
feeling like a subhuman makes you a subhuman. like literally who cares. idu why ya'll are so sensitive

>>7750042

>dude what kind of level 1 trolling is this lol

this actually happens. i'm not trolling. why are mtfs impossible to talk to

>>7750056
>Terf
I'm someone who made the right choice. I suffer from BDD/GD like you might, I need medicine to get by.

But I took the same premises you did and came to the only just and ethical conclusion. Femboy mode is the only way to cope that doesn't make things worse for others and worsen steryotypes.

Better to expand the definition of maleness and look girly as fuck than your insane and male entitled claims that your feelings and whims rule all.

Gender critical is the only sensible way to process your premisse

>>7750146
No one else is obligated to be as much of a pathetic, self-hating piece of shit as you.

>>7750146
How does identifying as a girl make things worse for anybody? Only hons make things worse, and even then, most cis people don't give a shit.

>>7750146
If anything it's your turbo autism makes things worse for others. Get some help dude.

>>7750180
>>7750191

He said he's a man but "feeling like a woman" and being effeminate makes him a woman.

Feeling like a woman is insulting and reducing yourself and them to caricatures. Saying effeminate males have failed and aren't real men hurts and perpetuates abuse.

You fail everyone with this selfish whims and personality make me a girl argument, it's terrible in its implications

>>7750268
>Feeling like a woman is insulting and reducing yourself and them to caricatures. Saying effeminate males have failed and aren't real men hurts and perpetuates abuse.

That's not what we are saying at all, trans women aren't women just because they're feminine or anything like that. Also, I have nothing against feminine men.

Well, it's not completely wrong.
Would it make you a 100% female? No
Does it technically changes some of your biological characteristics of that of a female? Yes.
Are you technically not a 100% male if you have some female biological characteristics? I guess so.
It's all just a matter of perspective at this point.

>>7750289
The people who are in agony from BDD and go crazy with medicine and surgery and keep at it till they die at least have my sympathy. Maybe you aren't really a man if you take it past some threshold, maybe. And maybe then it doesn't hurt to go in spaces if the justification is your body fits in them, not your personality or feels.

But he's complacent and says he's a man in every way, but says cause he's effeminate and feels like a girl that magically nullifies his body.

"Feeling like a woman" and having a personality like one whatever that is is just bad steryotypes and ideas that hurt everyone, not a justification for being a girl.

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>>7745762
Sex and Gender are the same thing, and it all comes down to the chromosomes (unchangeable, you tranny filth)

>>7750268
>insulting
To whom? If it triggers your personal mental health problems then it is wrong for everyone, right?
If you are idocrinated with the "gender identity and sex are the same, trans are caricatures, they hurt muh feelings" then it's your problem.
Wanting to both be "girly as fuck" and a "manly real man" is kinda indicative of it.

>>7750337
>To whom?
Saying you're a man but can be a girl because you have a "girl personality" is ridiculous and reduces people to some stepford steryotype

Saying being effeminate makes you not be a real man is absurd and that hurts effeminate males and other gender not conforming people.

This feelings argument is the most destructive version of trans ideology you could have latched to.

The damage this causes to others, women and effeminate makes is far more significant than any pain following the right path might cause me

>>7750332
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!)
Sex and gender are the same but sex but sex is not chromosomes you highschool flunk out

>>7750372
this nigga thinks because he can link some journal papers he's proven trannies aren't male

>but sex but sex

looks like someone didn't go to their highschool English classes

>>7750382
There are BDD-chans on this site, idk why they're here but they are.

>>7750325
I just brought the feeling and naturally acting feminine up because you accused me of impersonating
> impersonate one with your caricaturish behavior

> The people who are in agony from BDD and go crazy with medicine and surgery and keep at it till they die at least have my sympathy. Maybe you aren't really a man if you take it past some threshold, maybe. And maybe then it doesn't hurt to go in spaces if the justification is your body fits in them

I never said that I don't take HRT or that I don't get/got any surgeries. In fact I said

> I need to keep taking my Hormones..
> I need to get a surgery ..

I am presenting female, I am on mones for nearly 10 months now, I got ffs, my srs is schduled for early 2018. I pass pretty well and am currently working on my voice with professional help.
So if you are so obsessed about physical characteristics I am not the person to yell at lmao.

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165KB, 1136x640px

>>7750382
The image hash checks out and has a perfect match to files the pedophile posted months ago during his raids.

Sage and report, this is undeniable proof that >>7750382 has the very same computer an infamous child porn spammer had.

Don't let him start raiding again. report so when the mods get back later this week they can burn him and all his posts.

>>7750386
>thinks his feels trump journals and college courses
Proves why high school is as far as you got

>>7750364
It seems more to me like you are the one projecting those stereotypes.
Maybe if the thought of some people wanting to live their lifes as the want to hurts you so much, then maybe problem really is with you.
Whining about how "muh feeling are hurt" with people saying you are not a real man, but at the same time whining about transpeople who just want to live their lives as females, and how that also "hurs your feeling, and causes you "damage"" is a really piece of shit thing one could do.

>>7750424
You say you're a man, and that "naturally acting like a girl" and feeling like a woman and being effeminate make you not a man.

Everyone of those ideas is insulting selfish and highly damaging to women and gender nonconformers

>>7750447
Cis women and GNC people can all off themselves for all I care.

I guess getting to say that is straight privilege.

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531KB, 1300x957px

>>7750424
>on mones for 10 months
>got FFS

>been on mones for 7 years
>FFS probably never

Haha. It's funny because I'm screwed.

>>7750447
Maybe these particular "women and gender nonconformers" neet to take their heads out of their asses and not be "damaged" by the way other people want to live their lifes.

>>7750429
HAHAHAHAHA i honestly can't tell if you're trolling now

You honestly are retarded, literally, the facepalm is undeniably gigantic. You know as much about image hashing as you do about biology, which is absolutely fuck all

>>7750432
I'm postgraduate, if you even went to uni you'd realise a lot of published journals are trash, but you freaks try to push your agenda so hard it obscures any intelligent thought. Much like our friend who links i'm a pedophile, unbelievable.

>>7750447
As I already said, I only took these things as an example because you said I was impersonating the behaviour, which I am not.
Obviously there is more to it but I don't want to talk about gender dysphoria and stuff.

Also, how does connecting femininity with women hurt them?
I am not saying that all women have to be or are feminine. But the majority is. I am sorry if this bothers you, but if it does it really is your problem and not mine.

>>7750470
Save money anonchan

>>7750500
No idea how I would even come close to making enough money, I'm already 22 so it's pretty much over for me.

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144KB, 1136x640px

>>7750481
It proves the exact same file with the same IP belongs to you as it did to someone who's Perma banned for ilegal content

And btw the mods perma ban all the time because the hash proves they have the same material an evader does.

So you're fried and the archive has a long list of proof of your guilt.

Good bye pedophile.

We already have proof so get him out before he posts his disgusting kid shit

>>7750506
I started at 22, it's not too late.

File: download (1).jpg (8KB, 279x181px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 279x181px

>>7750429
I'm actually quite stunned at your perseverance. You're doing god's work, anon. Keep it up

>>7750531
How the hell did you have enough money for FFS at 23? Rich parents? Prostitution?

>>7750481
>I'm postgraduate, if you even
And I just finished summa and was let into a Pharma program. Biomed journals especially prestige ones are reliable, so are basic mechanisms.

And if I recall, you're that medschool wanabee who couldn't hack it, and boasted about doing ilegal things like throwing rocks at people. And you did get banned for posting snuff or something like that.

So yeah, you shouldn't be here, the evidence is pretty damning. I'd report but you could just avoid that by leaving.

>>7750563
>And if I recall, you're that medschool wanabee who couldn't hack it, and boasted about doing ilegal things like throwing rocks at people. And you did get banned for posting snuff or something like that.

Erm....

>>7750562
>>7750538

http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7593211/
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7614131/
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7663315/
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7672093/#7672172
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7688503/#7689006
The hash has been used to ban the pedophile and any acomplices dozens of times.

You won't do any better this time you sick boy fucker

>>7750587
Absolutely deluded.

Have you OD'd on hormones tranny boy?

>>7750558
I always saved almost all my money, I worked for 2 years while living with my parents and had like 12k in my account. I also inherited some money.

>>7750619
Guess how that thread ended for you and the pedophile. Better luck with banns next time nambla shill. http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7688503/#7689006

>>7750646
I won't get banned you retarded cunt

>>7749217

You sound like a fucking child

>>7750623
Oh, 12k? Who did you go with then, Cardenas?

>>7750783
12k savings + the inherited stuff
Went to Bart

>>7750856
Hmmm, would you say that he's a good choice? Honestly FFS is probably far far off for me and I might not even survive that long, but yeah.

>>7750859
I think all known FFS surgeons are good choices.

>>7750646
Lol crazy trannies

>>7745762
Any good tranny youtuber to follow?

This person is a moron. He pretends to be a gay/bi/whatever trans woman but until recently he went by the name "Justin" (not even adding one fucking letter to make it Justine, just going by their boy name) and he claims that he is choosing not to go on hormones because he don't feel like it and don't experience dysphoria over his body. He's a lying sack of shit who thinks saying something he disagrees with is a violent action and that people are bigots if they don't want to date a trans person. He's a fucking charlatan and he makes us look even worse than we already do to everybody who comes across him and thinks those of us who are actually trans are like him. He is just as damaging to actual trannies as those elderly crossdressing fetishists who find Susan's and dupe themselves into thinking they're trans.

>>7750900
Well I'm definitely not going to Spiegel or Zukowski, ideally I would go to Facial Team or Braly but $$$$$

>>7751016

Yorick and Theryn Meyer are pretty good

>>7751227
Thanks!

>>7748805
You realise I don't give a fuck about Justin's LARPing, right?


>>7749068
I mean her voice and overall appearance still look like a guy wearing winged eyeliner...


Brutal!

>>7749907
He doesn't look like he is on HRT/has been on it for long.

>>7750130
Any MTF who claims their partner has no right to a preference in their genitals is one colossal fuck up of a faggot

I a lesbian MTF, but as much as I want to be with cis lesbains I respect that they have the right to a preference in their partners genitals. Pretty typically that includes that the woman they are with has a vagina. For that reason among many others we are often better off seeking out Bi women until we get surgery etc. (Even bi women might not like your equipment though so be prepped for that.)

Also PSA if your going to be having sex with another person be sure to tell them what your working with BEFORE you get to the bedroom...

>>7751227
>Theryn Meyer
Plz no. She is pretty deluded too.

Maya is pretty good. Another decent one is this "A Girl for all seasons" person she is from the UK and races cars and shit.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf0CRezZYOUcvqrdMmozowQ

Princess Joules is kinda bad at times but overall she has a lot of videos and will teach you how to be a straight trans woman (and potentially bimbo :P)

>>7751016
I'm not a tranny but I like to watch Raiden Quinn she's pretty entertaining

>>7745762
If I shave I am not biologically hairless

Transpeople are not biologically their mental sex because they altered themselves

>>7751578
What if you permanently remove all your hair with electrolysis (let's ignore the viability of it)? Can you still call yourself biologically hairy when you literally can't grow any?

>>7749862
>but not embrace these ridiculous roles like you do hon.
???

>>7749899
>He's using the women's room if he's socially transitioned. Once you cross that line it becomes mockery and drags everyone down.
Why does this trigger you so much? Get over it.

>>7751431
>>Theryn Meyer
>Plz no. She is pretty deluded too.
How is he deluded?

>>7751040
i have a question. i've got nothing against trans people but i would never date one, as the thought of it isnt sexually appealing to me. i don't see them as real women either, but i'd never act violent or aggressive towards them for simply existing, i'd respect she/her pronouns but inside i'd know they aren't female

would you call me transphobic? i mean, i'd be quite happy going under the transphobic label if you think sexual preference and disagreement of opinions are constitutes

>>7754286

Different anon, but there's two separate things going on here IMO.
The fact that you wouldn't date a trans woman is not transphobic. But the motivation behind that, the fact that you don't see trans women as women, I might say is transphobic. But pretty benign, fuck thought crimes, as long as you're polite it really shouldn't matter that your gut tells you "that's a man" when looking at a trans woman. Besides, that's usually just instinct, and that sort of thing can change naturally over time if the concept becomes normalised, until accepting them as women becomes the path of least resistance. No need to brow beat anyone over it, it's just a reflection of one's experiences, and whether that gets outrgrown or holds fast is really no one else's fucking business as long as no one's getting hurt.

Anyway, the fact that the latter (arguable transphobia) is the cause of the former (not dating trans people) doesn't mean the former is automatically transphobia, because there are many non-transphobic reasons one might not want to date a trans person.
It's the same way there are many reasons one might not want to give money to homeless people. That reason MIGHT be that one views the homeless as sub-human, but there are plenty of sympathetic reasons that lead to that same result. So to paint it all as being rooted in hatred becomes little but an emotionally blackmailing assumption that the homeless are entitled to our money by default.

No one is entitled to sex, and for people to guilt trip like this as if everyone needs to be open to dating trans people really disgusts me. And as well as being incredibly intrusive and about as personal as an argument can get, it's just plain dumb to come at someone who's supposedly transphobic already, and then force this incredibly intimate mental scenario on them.

It used to be "chill out, homophobes, gays aren't going to rape you, they just want to live their lives." Now it's "FUCK ME OR YOU'RE A BIGOT."

>>7754286
>i don't see them as real women either,

Yes you are transphobic.

>>7754286
> Transphobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward transgender or transsexual people, or toward transsexuality. Transphobia can be emotional disgust, fear, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to society's gender expectations.

I don't think that
> isnt sexually appealing to me
> i don't see them as real women

Makes you transphobic.

>>7745762
>Essentially they claim that transwomen are NOT biologically male.
well, obviously

open up a biology book. When you want to figure out if an animal (or plant) is a male or a female, you look at its anatomy (or dna)

being male/female is biological, you can't change your gender. You're born with it.

>>7754412
Uh... you read OP backwards.

>>7754416
i thought transwomen meant women who are trans (dress like men, take test etc)

this whole thing is crazy

>>7754434
First day on /lgbt/ huh?

>>7754434
No, a "cis" woman is a normal woman and a transwoman is a woman who was born male.

>>7754434

Holy newfag. Not even newfaggotry, that's just living under a rock...

>>7745762

This is wrong, absolutely wrong. This almost reminds me of religions and religious freaks (Islam and Christianity mainly) trying to combine science and religion together.

I know that transwomen want to be seen as "real" women and people should ABSOLUTELY RESPECT that and their life decisions. BUT you are in very thin ice when you start to change science so that it would confirm your opinions/view of the world. Religions have tried that continuously past 2000 years.

>>7754351
but you're not tho?

>>7754342
i like your response, however i feel you're the minority. my personal experience has been "if you don't view us as cis, and you're not willing to have sex with us like you would an actual woman of similar looks, then you're transphobic" which to me, is utter nonsense

if that's what constitutes as transphobic then i guess i am

>>7754286
yes. not for not wanting to fuck them, but for not seeing them as real women.

>>7745943
>Intersex is where hormones + genitalia = mismatch
Wrong.
>“Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male.
http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

>>7755063
but in my opinion, they aren't, so the fact you don't accept my opinion is an intolerance of views opposing yours

bigotry.

>>7749945
Like you said, chromosomes are just condensed chromatin that package Dna for cell division. The dna can't transcribe while it's like that and chromosomes can't exist during interphase when the Dna is being transcribed. So not only aren't they blue prints, they're antethical to blue prints being active.

What's more all the sex determining genes are autosomal, they're things universal to all humans so saying its chromosomes when its DNA all humans have is insanity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!)

>>7755369
you're still male with male dna you dumb faggot

>>7755440
That means women have male DNA too cause they have the same sex development genes right down to the androgen receptor.

That's why you can have xX and so long as fox kicks in you'll be a male