You think that if our culture had different views on sexuality

it seems weird to me that trans folk are the ones expected to change or pass, sure they can have control over that now and it's easier than changing the masses views, but isn't that what it's really about? Am I just missing the point big time?

No, I would still go through hormone therapy duh.
This is a dumb assumption because I am not some dumb crossdresser who is satisfied when he can wear women's clothes. What good is there about women clothes on a testosterone-ruined hulkified body?

>What if you were born in a time before surgery and hormone therapy?
Well then I would really have no choice, would I? I would most likely cut off my with a rusty Sioux hatchet and bleed to dead, possibly.

>>7734233
Yes, definitely. Scrap gender roles and just let people act and live and femininely or as masculinely as they like, regardless of sex.

>>7734288
>be woman
>hold self to female beauty standards
>standards that include sex
>hate your sex

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>You think that if our culture had different views on sexuality that trans people would feel less compelled to transition?
No? Even "our culture" has nonbinary and genderqueer people, and guess what? People are just as angry and uncomfortable with that as with trans people that transition medically and try to pass.

>>7734288
>I would most likely cut off my with a rusty Sioux hatchet and bleed to dead, possibly.
maybe there were herbs that could alter hormone levels before you'd have to go do something like that lol
So how much of body dysphoria is about sex organs? I'm guessing it just depends on the person?
Like what if you wanted to be delicious and smooth and effeminate and the goal of looking like that was just viewed like the goal of working out? People encouraged you, you could talk about struggles and triumphs openly, like it wasn't something that was shamed en masse?
I used to believe in the power of technology to liberate us but I don't anymore (coming from IT world) and it made me think about surgery and hormone therapy and how it's really a technology. So if those things didn't even exist then would that stop some people from feeling fulfilled?
Not liking your body sucks, and that's just coming from someone who used to be insecure about their weight, so I can't even imagine the mindfuck around body dysmorphia, which I guess is why I'm asking these weird questions

>>7734340
>People are just as angry and uncomfortable with that
but those are the views I'm talking about, what if that was different? If people didn't even bat an eyelash at nonbinary trans or genderqueer people would that be considered a solution for those people? Is this something that could hypothetically be resolved through a change in society or is there some other way of seeing this problem?

>>7734233
I think that if our culture wasn't split evenly between people who think trans people don't deserve any rights, life, or happiness, and certainly not transition on the one hand, and the people who think trans people only deserve rights, life and happiness if they chops their bits off, then there'd be less transition regret.

The ammount of people I've met that say you have to chop yourself to bits or else they won't respect you at all is staggering. It's a common joke in the media. This is why I don't believe for a second that the world getting more and more moral is a given, on this issue we've actually went backwards from how people lived thousands of years ago. Once upon a time you were more or less allowed to do what you want with your own body in many cultures, now you have to do what other people tell you with scalpels and your body if you care what they think at all.

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>>7734233
There was no time before surgery. As soon as the agricultural revolution, farmers quickly learned the tools and merits for making geldings and such, and thereafter applied the knowledge to people.

>>7734389
>maybe there were herbs that could alter hormone levels
Gee maybe but do you actually believe herbs could put a stop to the behemoth that is male puberty? Sure self-castration (and surviving) isn't that much ideal either considering I would probably grow up super tall and with a frail eunuch figure. I am really grateful to live today and not centuries ago.
>goal of looking like that was just viewed like the goal of working out
Yes, that would be great. And peace on Earth too!
>So how much of body dysphoria is about sex organs
Mine is actually less about the sex organs and more about the body itself tbqh.

>So if those things didn't even exist then would that stop some people from feeling fulfilled?
Kind of a trick question but no because these people wouldn't know what they have been missing and since they don't know they aren't really bothered by it, duh, right? They would find other ways that would help them to feel fulfilled.

>>7734515
castration =/= sexual reassignment

>>7734540
Except that's exactly how it was employed before the advent of horse piss pills. Not always, obviously. But there are records from Mesopotamia, from Rome, of castrated men dressing and living as women.

>>7734486
this, there needs to be more tolerance for gender nonconformity even when that doesn't mean every imaginable transition surgery and treatment. after all, that's just another kind of conformity. be one sex or transition to the other, no other options. no!

>>7734486
that's what I think, the subliminal pressures we're exposed to by our societies are fucking all pervasive in a fucked up way. Want to see a psychological horror film? Go outside and talk about sexuality with people. And we're supposed to be the ones that are mentally ill riiiight

>>7734526
>do you actually believe herbs could put a stop to the behemoth that is male puberty?
that's a good point. Broken leg? Take some tylenol

>>7734515
>>7734572
do we got an anthropologist here? I was kinda wondering about surgery after I asked the question. Do you think the main source of frustration that trans people feel could be resolved by an inclusive culture that doesn't associate nonbinary roles with deviancy and shame?
Is this something that can be solved or is humanity just on some sort of fuckin time loop of consciousness where this shit is never gonna be figured out?

>>7734637
There's no silver bullet. For some, dysphoria is predominantly social, and for others it's predominantly physiological. Just because society at large, in your example, accepts a born-male expressing femininity and living out a female role, that won't necessarily root out all feelings of alienation.