http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle /875569 Early transitio

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>>7727780


shall we go bitch slap /b/ and /pol/ now?

>>7727780
>Early transitioning kids and teens become more mentally stable after early social transitioning.

Compared to what? Other trans kids who didn't transition or other trans that transition later. Those (((studies))) twist the data in order to obtain a politically correct conclusion.

>>7727780
Why didn't mom and dad early transition me?

Gay men even more mentally stable, and with less literal prostitution. Deal with it loser.

>>7727825

To comparable minors not allowed to transition. Those get the 41% suicide rate.
http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext

>>7727997
What about compared to less GNC minors who would grow up AGP? Would early transition benefit them?

>>7727825

Did you bother reading the study? It was quite specific.

For some reason I can't make an account on their shitty site, is there a link from somewhere else?

>>7728014
Those were gnc and trans in the old studies that didn't transition, that entire cohort did much worse

>>7728056
>that entire cohort did much worse
Shit. But what if they had early transitioned?

>>7727780
I once had a study published on cancer caused by bananas. Doesn't mean shit you retard.

You linked to a page that requires an account to view. What a retard you are.

Very scientific study there kiddo. Im sure the science is just as sound as the liberals new scientific standards currently in practice in regards gender.

What a fool.
You didnt blow anyone out.
You are simply trying to confirm your own biases.

>>7727825
No, they don't. What kind of idiot believes this? If a study on an antidepressant finds that it works better than no treatment at all, do you think it's (((politically correct))) to conclude it's a worthwhile treatment even if the people on the drug are still less healthy than the general population?

But then again:

>Results: In both samples we found high levels of satisfaction in all the areas explored (including sexual life after surgery), and levels of psychological and social well-being comparable to those of the general population.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274833229_Psychosocial_outcome_and_quality_of_sexual_life_after_sex_reassignment_surgery_An_Italian_multicentric_study

>Conclusion: These findings suggest that the psychological status of GID clients is more similar to non-GID individuals as treatment and RLE progress.
http://www.osaka-med.ac.jp/deps/b-omc/articles/601/601hori.pdf

>Results: Compared with reference populations, transsexual women scored good on physical and mental level (SF-36).
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/19040622

I'm sure there's more, but you get the point: some studies DO find post-transition trans people to score as well as the general population on assessments of mental/emotional functioning.

Fuck off.

>>7728155
>No, they don't. What kind of idiot believes this?
Not an argument. See >>7728133

>>7728155
Some conservative scientist have shown in studies that climate change is a hoax by the fhinese government and that evolution is false.

Some studies suggest the earth is onoy 6 or so thousands years old.

Oh, but everyone knows these studies by agenda driven people are absurd and we shrug them off. Because after all, the overwhelming majority understand that man made climate change is truly a thing but the severity of the situation is not so certain.

You see. That is what you and other rational people do with fringe studies thst disprove climate change. We can safely assume some big oil company funded eaid study.

So when the right pulls such blatant bullshit, you will he the first faggot to shrug off the findings.

But now we have this fringe study that says mentally ill children with who think they are female are happier if allowed to transition in their early years.

You see, to be rational means to take no sides and let the traffic pass left or right. Something a faggot like yourself sinply cannot do.

This study is garbage. Everyone knows the dangers in allowing children to mutilate their bodies with surgery or irreversible hormones.

Not only is their countless horror stories from these kids once they age, its also ludicrous ethically to allow a child whos brain has not even begun to develop, to greenlight mutilating his body because of a feeling he had at age 11, 12,13.

>>7728228
There's a reason ever reputable medical organization believes that transition is the best available treatment for transsexualism. And unless society gives up on the idea of inalienable human rights, I seriously doubt that's going to change.

>>7728133
This kind of.

This article is posted on a website where any idiot can post their study for a small fee. It literally means nothing, there's something highly unscientific that the researchers did that couldn't get them published in a real science journal.

However, just because this article is bunk doesn't make the 100s of other articles actually published in reputable science journals bunk as well.

You could have easily picked a better article to stick it to trans deniers

How early is genuinely appropriate, though?

I get really worried at the number of trans kids I see in the news who are taking hormones while still prepubescent. Part of that seems like a major issue, because so much of gender identity is linked to maturity. Should we not at least promote (albeit with very open listening to the kid) going through puberty as their birth sex to see if their dysphoria continues?

I mean, people like Jazz Jennings or Corey Maison never had a chance. What happens if they come of age and regret these decisions? Especially with the consequences.

It's not as heavy for older people who transition but these kids have already made themselves permanently sterile, they've decimated the ability for their own birth-sex hormones to form... It really is a one-time shot.

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>>7728274
>Should we not at least promote (albeit with very open listening to the kid) going through puberty as their birth sex to see if their dysphoria continues?
That's unethical as fuck. Imagine if it were a cis girl instead of a trans girl:

"Yeah, we are just going to inject her with a bunch of testosterone to see if she likes it, you never know, lol. And anyways, who cares if she consents, kids are stupid"

People would be fucking outraged, and rightfully so.

>>7728133
>>7728266
It's Peer reviewed and from a good journal http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext

It's not our fault that crazy trailer trash like >>7728133 think they know better than all the doctors.

Best solution to that is using capitalism to relegate them to irrelevance and menial bag boy work they won't fuck up.

>>7728274
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

Blockers don't cause sterility and they give the best outcome but it's been proven that pushing them though puberty wrecks outcomes and bumps the sucicde rate to more than 41%

>>7728285
Uhh, it kinda seems ike Anon was suggestign the opposite of that...

>>7728305
He thinks we should let trans women go through male puberty. It shows that he inherently views trans women as lesser, because you'd never force a cis girl to go through such misery.

>>7728285
I'm not saying that somebody *has* to wait until they're 18 or some shit, nor do I think this is in any way applicable to somebody who doesn't have gender dysphoria.

All I'm saying is that this isn't a light decision, and I think hormonal therapy requires a bit of exploration if the person seeking it isn't even pubescent.

Let them live as their identifying gender, by all means. Support them, be open, be loving. But I think we have a duty to ensure that we don't accidentally bring something upon these kids that they will later regret.

When I (24 cis female) was 12 I started feeling like I was really a man. I knew about gender dysphoria, I knew about transgenderism. I really believed this.

Once I got I to puberty, around 15, I lost the notion completely. It wasn't forced out of me, I just grew comfortable in who I was growing to be - an adult cis woman.

I can't claim my experience is the same, so don't think I am. But I can only imagine what might've happened if I told my family about this, a very loving and supportive progressive family. What would've happened if I'd gone to therapy, been put on blockers and T, and gone through male puberty.

I obviously can't know what would've happened, but the concept frightens me.

>>7728163
My god, seriously? Of course those two sentences alone are not an argument - I was asking how anyone believes WHAT I WAS REPLYING TO is an argument. Which I explained further in the next sentence, by showing how his argument does not make sense in a similar context.

But sure, pretend the rest of the paragraph doesn't exist! Neck yourself, nog.

>>7728228
>But now we have this fringe study that says mentally ill children with who think they are female are happier if allowed to transition in their early years.

It needs replication; but it follows from virtually every study done on trans people for the past several decades.

>Everyone knows the dangers in allowing children to mutilate their bodies with surgery or irreversible hormones.
"Everyone knows" absolutely nothing about the process. Nothing is irreversible until the mid-teens, and surgery does not occur before adulthood.

>Not only is their countless horror stories from these kids once they age
No, there isn't.

>its also ludicrous ethically to allow a child whos brain has not even begun to develop, to greenlight mutilating his body because of a feeling he had at age 11, 12,13.
It's more ethical to pretend children are unformed balls of mush until the magical age of
18, and leave them deeply miserable until then?

I believe in erring on the side of caution. For any children who are uncertain or vacillating at all, this means waiting. For children who are adamant and suicidal without transition, this means transitioning.


What's really laughable about this shit is that it generally comes from people who are claiming to be biological essentialists. Yet somehow, they simultaneously believe that a 13 year old does not have a set gender identity.

My dysphoria ain't got NOTHING on that level of cognitive dissonance.

>>7727780

Link to a site that doesn't require a membership with the same information?

>>7728296
I was not aware of this, but I'm glad to be wrong about it!

It isn't my intention to cause pain, or to force people to *complete* puberty.

>>7728326
I personally think FtMs should have to wait till 18, because of the potential for testosterone to fuck everything up for life.
But I'm man hating as it gets (I think no one should have to go through male puberty) so idk what the socially acceptable solution to this would be.

>But I can only imagine what might've happened if I told my family about this, a very loving and supportive progressive family
If it makes you feel any better, even progressive families are often hostile to trans people, it's unlikely you would have been able to transition that early.

>>7728350
Well it doesn't matter people die at high numbers or need euthanisia now

>>7728274
>What happens if they come of age and regret these decisions? Especially with the consequences.
You'd better be against circumcision.

>>7728285
>People would be fucking outraged, and rightfully so.
People are fine with cutting bits off the genitals of boys, so why would they care about this?

>>7727780

What a time to be alive. Too bad I wasn't born yesterday instead of 32 years ago.

>>7728350
>>7728326
People have terrible outcomes from not getting blockers and treatment. That's what all these studies prove.

Mass sucicde and euthanisia is the only way to fix the mess you've caused

>>7728274
Nobody "takes hormones" before puberty. Puberty BLOCKERS are not cross-sex hormones. They are exactly what it sounds like - puberty BLOCKERS.

They have been used in cis kids to prevent early puberty for ages. Taking them is safe and reversible.

>Part of that seems like a major issue, because so much of gender identity is linked to maturity.
Do cis people really believe this? Am I from Mars, the planet where people have a gender before 7th grade?

>Should we not at least promote (albeit with very open listening to the kid) going through puberty as their birth sex to see if their dysphoria continues?
Let's also waterboard them. Why the hell not?

God, I hate this. I hate having to convince people who have no idea what this disorder is like and never will to stop treating it like a game and pretending they're being the serious, reasonable ones.

>>7728366

FTMs waiting. That's actually not that bad. The effects of etrogen are nothing compared to what testosterone does to you. If they go on T early and have a regret, there's no turning back.

>>7728346
You have literally no argument except "muh peer reviewed"

>>7728371
I am.

>>7728404
So now you're going to pretend you were replying to a completely different point than the part you quoted? Jesus christ.

>>7727794
It's better to just let /pol/ be autistic by itself without disturbing it.

>>7728404
It's medical trials that keep finding the same result. I trust the doctors and good journals over delusional fools who couldn't finish school.

>>7728429
Peers mean doctors and pediatricians. They actually went through school and practice medicine and get reviewed by doctors.

You on the other hand are delusional trailer trash, you've flunked out of school but think you know better than doctors.

You're deluded, dangerous trash and should stick to your wage slave job rather than doing something like med you have no capacity for.

>>7728429
>blah blah blah delusional blah blah blah men in dresses blah blah blah echo chamber blah blah blah chromosomes can't change biology

Have you ever had an original idea about anything?

It's an astronomical impossibility that thousands of you people have all had the exact same idea at the exact same time and argue the exact same way.

>>7728489
Not an argument.

>>7728502
The mentally ill saying he's smarter than doctors isn't an argument, it's a need for institutionalization.

>>7728346
Its actually a scientific facts on children, mental capacity, and growth. We know what a child is cognitively capable of and what he is not.

And aside from the science, we all have the experience of being a young 11, 12 year old and we KNOW the difference is night and day whenbit comes to maturity as well as the lack mental capacity to grasp complex issues at such a age since we have all been there.

And you're wrong. Parents can and have signed off on genetial mutilation at ages as young as we are discussing.

And taking whatever hormones you faggots get on at the start of puberty is absolutely 1000% irreversible so stop telling blatant lies.

The ethetical pitfalls here are glaring and i know you see them but choose to pretend they do not exist.

A child, incapable of complex rational thinking. Incapable of weighing pros and cons for long term decisions

Said change ld should be allowed to DECIDE that he wants to undergo irreversible medication that will wreck his physiology for life.

We understand that the real issue here is mental health. These children are severely mentally ill and need treatment to cope with their illness.

The treatment is most definitely NOT genital mutilation or hormones.

If a bipolar schizophrenic CHILD suffering from depression and paranoia told you that they wish to gouge their eyeballs out because it would help them feel better, the solution would NOT be, to gouge their eyeballs out.

I'll await your reply

>>7728510
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry#Germany_(1933–1945)

>>7728326
You realize they wouldn't have ever given anything more than blockers till around 18? Only permanent effect

And even things like femboys that don't identify as female want blockers and stuff as early as possible, so even GNC have a right to body autonomy.

>>7728416
Are you also fully against teens and twelve year olds being given OTC contraceptions and abortions with no oversight?

You do realize contraceptives are deadly bc embolysims and one in 2000 develop a deadly complication that results in death or disability.

Loosing all your fingers cause the pill caused distributive shock or dying is far more permanent than ending up taller.

If you're serious about oposing body autonomy and have any ethics, you'll want to ban minors from birth control.

This is why I'm overjoyed Trump won, he and his groupies will give planned parrenthood and all the hypocritical body autonomy opposing liberals a blow from which they will never recover from.

I'm happy... for the first time in history we will have equality.

>>7728511
Every study says you're wrong, but you claim you're smarter than doctors, you're severely mentally ill. And factually wrong about GnRH.

You're proof of how humans come in greater and lesser versions, stick to what you can do.

>>7728446
Wrong.

Again, i've had a peer reviewed study published on the dangers of bananas causing cancer in humans.

Total bullshit, i assure you it was.


And you are wrong AGAIN. Peer review doesnt mean its reviewed by practitioners or doctors you fucking idiot. It means its been reviewed by a panel of your peers who have a high degree of knowledge of the subject at hand.

When the subject is faggotry and transgenderism, i assure you, those peers doing the reviewing arent biologist kek.

No, those reviewers are feminist and other retards l who have a degree in gender studies.

You though a panel of highly esteemed biologist sat down and read oger this garbage study.

Now thats funny.

>>7728557
I love how leftists hate experts except when they browbeat them into agreeing with their agenda.

>>7728537
I want to see an oc conspiracy theory please, I don't think Trump would want to turn the US into a trans nation so you'll have to think really hard on why your president is trying to get hormones in the water.

>>7728557
Ok. You say im wrong as i lay out my detailed 4 paragraph counter argument.

Your only reply is

>Every study says you're wrong

Good. Im wrong. Now tell me where im wrong. Point out all the incorrect statements. Highlight them, tell me the facts that you know. Then cite ALL these studies you claim to have thst prove i am wrong.

>Your wrong everyone says so

Not an argument. Why even post? You make yourselr look foolish. Anyone who comes across my post and then sees your reply, they are going to have a giggle and shake their head in pity for you.

You dont even have to show the studies you know of kiddo. Just make a compelling argument that and tell me "all the studies agree" at the end. Go for it. Can you even do that?

Or are you completely full of shit?

Need to rub this in Blaire the faggotron white but then again she will most likely ignore it and continue to make Ad hominems and strawman like she does with anyone that disagrees with her on this.

>>7728572
You pushed it in a predatory journal, good to prestigious journals are sound on all their stuff

>>7728599
Why is it left vs right?

Don't you think it's retarded you subscribe 110% to the right narrative? Do you really not agree with anything the left says? Don't you think it's weird that moderates are rarer than the extremists? Realistically you would see more moderates than extremists.

What the real question is, why do you believe that the left is being brainwashed and that you aren't?

>>7728631
>dat dogmatic faith

>>7728429
>The general consensus is that children should not be transitioning as it worsens mental health further.
No, that most certainly is NOT the general consensus.

>You cant change biology
It would be nice if you were actually capable of grasping this point.

>Your gender studies are not applicable
This is not liberal arts.

>This peer reviewed study is hot garbage.
Because REASONS.

>>7728511
"a scientific facts"

Oh boy. Can't wait to be schooled here on a scientific facts.

>And aside from the science, we all have the experience of being a young 11, 12 year old and we KNOW the difference is night and day whenbit comes to maturity as well as the lack mental capacity to grasp complex issues at such a age since we have all been there.

I have indeed been there. I knew what gender I was. Most people did.

>And you're wrong. Parents can and have signed off on genetial mutilation at ages as young as we are discussing.
Circumcision is not relevant to this discussion, kiddo.

>And taking whatever hormones you faggots get on at the start of puberty is absolutely 1000% irreversible so stop telling blatant lies.
Puberty BLOCKERS are FULLY REVERSIBLE. The entire POINT of puberty blockers is to BE reversible, since they were originally developed to prevent precocious puberty in cis children, and they HAD to be reversible so that cis children could enter normal puberty at the correct age when they stopped taking them.

You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.

>A child, incapable of complex rational thinking. Incapable of weighing pros and cons for long term decisions
I'm sorry, but there is no decision being made here that ISN'T reversible until the mid-teens, and we trust people in their mid-teens to make many other long-term decisions.

>These children are severely mentally ill and need treatment to cope with their illness.
The word "treatment" is not interchangeable with "give them talk therapy until the icky people go away." That's not how this works.

>>7728653
My views are a hodgepodge of several viewpoints, including the left, so who are you implying is brainwashing me?

>>7728572
Are you the wanabe doctor who'd used to give inane rants about trannies and insist he was going to be a doctor.


The same one who used to boast about throwing rocks at people and got banned for posting naked kids and dead bodies? Your stuff is pretty infamous and all in the archives.

You're also not allowed in 4chan

>>7728781
Except the AMA and AAP and others all say it's the best way.

Good bye pedophile, you're already made clear who you are.

Sage and report en mass before he lead another snuff raid

>>7728672
>>And you're wrong. Parents can and have signed off on genetial mutilation at ages as young as we are discussing.
>Circumcision is not relevant to this discussion, kiddo.
Why is that then?

Perhaps because anything you approve of is fine and unrelated to anything you don't?

Maybe you think it's wrong for a child to choose something themselves and have their body made to suit the gender they identify with, but right for other people to involuntarily remove parts of their genitals so they are less like their assigned sex?

>>7728830
Don't bother talkin to him, we already have proof it's that same criminal the mods have been trying to purge. You'll just embolden him and he'll come out of hiding to spam again. Report him and burn him off, he's long used all of his chances up.

>>7728809
>Except the AMA and AAP and others all say it's the best way.
The AAP being the same organization that supported FGM?

>>7728849
More conspiracy theories from the pedophile?

>>7728851
I'm not him and you're very ignorant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Academy_of_Pediatrics#Female_genital_cutting

>>7728133
I'm 57, I run a company, and you sir are a stupid person. And lazy, too.

>>7728228
>This study is garbage. Everyone knows the dangers in allowing children to mutilate their bodies with surgery or irreversible hormones.

The study said socially transition. Not SRS. Read much?

Science beats politics unless you're a buffoon. Are you a buffoon sir?

>>7728274

Socially transition.

Puberty blockers.

Not hormones.

>>7728372

Learn to read yet son?

>>7728511

Puberty blockers and social transition only. You can't read well. Pity.

>>7728781
>>Puberty BLOCKERS are FULLY REVERSIBLE...
I never once mentioned puberty blockers. I mentioned taking female hormones at the start of puberty you stupid fucking autist.

I'm OP.

I'm not gay.

The study said socially transition. Go away troll.