How many of you lost interest in females after starting hormones?

I was a predominately asexual-leaning bicurious boy before and I indeed lost interest in females about 2 months in.

>>7710264
>lost interest in females after starting hormones
H S T S
S
T
S

Femboy on several years of hormones here.

I was bi before and now I'm still bi but leaning heavily towards boys. I don't think I'll ever try getting with a girl again for a few reasons though.

Losing almost all of my previous sex drive made me stop being blind to the bullshit women pull and the games that must be played in dating them. I'm also submissive and pure bottom so I would be unwilling to try using my dick on a girl, and on top of this it's very small and almost never gets fully hard so it wouldn't be very satisfying anyway.

>>7710264
happened to me, but im pretty sure i liked men more in the first place
i was just repusled by gay stuff (and sex in general i might add)
feels much better now liking men as a woman

>>7710347
>Losing almost all of my previous sex drive made me stop being blind to the bullshit women pull and the games that must be played in dating them.
Men are suck cucks Tbh. This is the only reason feminism gets away with it.

I didn't lose interest in women, but gained a lot of interest in men. Seeing my girlfriend and being able to be near her, cuddle with her, joke around with her, etc. Is still the highlight of my day, I'm just now attracted to dudes too and would totally be willing to get pounded by a big dick(and that's still likely to happen at some point seeing as how my girlfriend has said she'd be interested in recording me getting fucked by a guy at some point whenever my self esteem improves)

>>7710398
Having an understanding girlfriend must be so nice. How does she feel about you not being masculine, starting hormones, and being attracted to guys?

>>7710264
Yep, it changed the kind of guy I was into too. Before I was pretty evenly split bi, and I liked guys on the femmier side.
Now I look at masculine men and only think lewd thoughts. I don't even get why I feel this way, but the attraction is magnetic.

It's a shame, women are better as people.

>>7710398
The only reason I ask is girlfriend I love. Even though she's not so understanding I'd never want to leave her or stop being attracted to her.

>>7710456
>It's a shame, women are better as people.
wtf

>>7710503
Yes?

>>7710512
why do you think that!

>>7710523
Men are violent, mean, perverted, cold, and gross. They are beyond confusing too, they have totally different motives for everything they do.

Women are comfy. I might get a gf despite the lack of real physical attraction because it'll be like having a best friend I won't lose to some man.

>>7710537
kek
i feel this way about getting a bf

>>7710434
She's pretty okay with me not being masculine, she's mostly attracted to girls, I don't even know if she'd still want to go out with me if I detransitioned. We only started going out after I started hrt.
>>7710470
Honestly if she's not understanding or super okay with it just go ahead and leave her. Even if you decide not to transition, her just knowing you want to means she's never gonna be as attracted to you as she used to be. The only way you're ever going to have a girlfriend who genuinely sees you as and treats you as a girl is if you start going out with them after starting transition. You and her will both be happier if you move on.

I have a lot more romantic thoughts about both men and women since going on HRT, but my sexual attraction hasn't changed.

>>7710596
It's not that plain and simple. We've both got pretty messed up during our life and we both have our issues. She knows everything and is now okay with everything. She just wasn't at the start, she was afraid and panicking, when all my identity issues started popping out.
Also I don't know if I am girl. If I should see myself as one. Those things are hard.

>>7710596
>The only way you're ever going to have a girlfriend who genuinely sees you as and treats you as a girl is if you start going out with them after starting transition.
bad news for me
t. non-transitioner

>>7710537
What are your motives?

I became attracted to females after starting hormones... but I'm ftm.

>>7710264
It's more like my sexual attraction moved towards guys. I've dated 2 girls before, and I love both of them, and if either was willing to get back together, then I would. However, I would just like to try dating a guy right now.

>>7710264
it's a thing that happens, you can't much control if it does or not
>>7710313
actually, this is by definition agp
it's known as 'meta-attraction' on this board and 'pseudo-androphilia' in blanchard's writings

>>7713318
Losing interest in females isn't meta-attraction.

AGP's stay gynephile whether or not they are androphile too.

>>7713400
that's nice and all, but this is a studied phenomenon
plenty of trans women who are inarguably agp (extremely late transition, were gender-conforming men before, etc) transition into being heterosexual women by self-definition
it's to the point that it causes problems in studies that separate hsts/agp solely by sexual orientation, because a substantial minority of straight trans women have the typical agp path (more than enough to swamp the bisexual hsts signal)

>>7713419
What is the distinction then, if the H is HSTS doesn't mean anything?

>>7713464
approximately everything
if every woman in the world was agp, there would still be a significant difference between two separate types of trans people, it's just that the type which is now a*p would have a different etiology
see the type descriptions in the second question here:
https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/faq-on-the-science/

>>7713485
The type descriptions say that HSTS have dysphoria and AGP may develop it.

>>7713594
yep
that's the reason why the most common euphemism for the types (as used by, for example, wpath) is 'early-onset' and 'late-onset'
there are more autogynephiles and autoandrophiles than there are ones who develop transsexualism secondary to it

>>7713620
What determines whether or not an AGP/AAP develops dysphoria?

Is this secondary dysphoria different from HSTS dysphoria?

Where does erotic target identity inversion as described here >>7710901 fit in?

If you liked girls pre-transition, and like men after transition, does this make you HSTS or AGP?

>>7713648
>What determines whether or not an AGP/AAP develops dysphoria?
nobody knows for sure, though it seems that anatomic a*ps (want a cross-sex body) are more likely to than transvestic a*ps (cross-sex clothing)
>Is this secondary dysphoria different from HSTS dysphoria?
more physical, less social, though it varies
>Where does erotic target identity inversion as described here >>7710901 → fit in?
etle as a term was invented to describe a*p and similar, and a*p is by far the most common etle
>>7713657
agp

>>7713701
>agp
Reasoning?

>>7713704
because, as previously explained, what you described there is a form of attraction only reported in agp trans women
recommended search keyword: pseudo-androphilia

>>7713719
What if I was bi then turned exclusively straight?

>>7713730
still the same deal
shifting from 'attracted to women' to 'less attracted to women' is not uncommon in the transitions of agp women -- or aap men, for that matter

>>7713701
ETLE theory makes AGP/AAP more like a sexual orientation than an identity, like HSTS. Is that right?

HSTS are GNC but what personality traits do AGP/AAPs have that single them out among their natal sex?

>>7713746
How do I have AGP if I'm not attracted to the thought of myself as a woman though.

Like I have boobs, but I never go "wow this is lewd, my boobs turn me on". I do housework as a woman and I'm never like "wow, I suddenly wanna jerk off" its more like "holy shit my roommate's a slob". But the hallmark of AGP is that such mundane things would be a turn on.

>>7713701
>>7713766
ETLEs are a hypothesis, not a theory, since there is zero proof for them being a thing. Blanchard saw a lot of different groups of people who were both attracted to something and wanted to become like that thing and decided ETLEs make for a good explanation. That does not a theory make.

FTM anon you're clever but I'm worried that you're taking these things to be facts just because people wrote of them in papers, ignoring the fact that those papers did not provide concrete evidence for causation.

As a thought experiment, consider the following: attraction to amputees or transsexuals can manifest without the wish to become them, and the wish to become either can manifest without attraction to such individuals. How do you know that attraction-to-the-thing-you-wish-to-be is a result of wanting to be what you're sexually attracted to and not the other way around, a disorder that causes you to be sexually attracted to what you wish to be? The latter even has explanatory power when it comes to cis homosexuality - gay individuals wish to be men and, suffering from this disorder, are consequently attracted to men.

Now, I'm not seriously proposing the above and the reason that I'm not doing so is because I have no data to promote that idea from hypothesis to theory. Neither does Blanchard when it comes to most things he wrote.

>>7713778
He means you're AGP type trans, not HSTS type. Your type stays the same even if you stop experiencing AGP itself.

Particular mundane things don't have to turn you on. AGP can be focused on the body, the clothing, actions, etc.

>>7713871
>How do you know that attraction-to-the-thing-you-wish-to-be is a result of wanting to be what you're sexually attracted to and not the other way around, a disorder that causes you to be sexually attracted to what you wish to be?
The woman an AGP wishes to be is derived from male sexuality and a male idealization of the feminine, unlike for an HSTS who fits better in the female gender role. That has explanatory, because it explains the distinction between the two trans types and their relationship to gender roles and sexualities.

>gay individuals wish to be men and, suffering from this disorder, are consequently attracted to men.
That contradicts the fact that gay men have male sexual attraction but towards men instead of women, which is distinct from how men are seen in het female sexuality and het male sexuality. Gay sexuality is cis male sexuality but towards men. AGP is het male sexuality but turned towards the self.

>>7713923
>The woman an AGP wishes to be is derived from male sexuality and a male idealization of the feminine
How do you know this to be a fact?

>unlike for an HSTS who fits better in the female gender role
Lesbians are significantly more masculine than straight women. How do you know this isn't just the same relationship mirrored with transsexuals?

>That contradicts the fact that gay men have male sexual attraction but towards men instead of women, which is distinct from how men are seen in het female sexuality and het male sexuality
How does it contradict that? Since men with this disorder are men who want to be men and the only kind of men who are also attracted to men then by definition their attraction would be distinct from the other sexualities.

>Gay sexuality is cis male sexuality but towards men
How does this preclude the disorder I suggested?

>AGP is het male sexuality but turned towards the self.
As I've already said in the first post there is no proof for this.

>>7713949
>How do you know this to be a fact?
The form an AGP fantasy takes matches het male fantasies.

>Lesbians are significantly more masculine than straight women. How do you know this isn't just the same relationship mirrored with transsexuals?
There is possibly a spectrum between lesbians and HSTS FTMs, and gay men and HSTS MTFs, where the extreme end fits better in the other gender role.

>How does it contradict that? Since men with this disorder are men who want to be men and the only kind of men who are also attracted to men then by definition their attraction would be distinct from the other sexualities.
In AGP the desire is to fit into the role occupied by the woman in a het male fantasy. The roles have been reversed. For gay men, the roles are not reversed, the person in one has just changed. Why would this difference exist if they are the same thing?

>>7714009
>The form an AGP fantasy takes matches het male fantasies
>In AGP the desire is to fit into the role occupied by the woman in a het male fantasy. The roles have been reversed.
Het males do not fantasize about women doing the dishes or knitting in a circle with other women. Those kinds of fantasies are the kind unique to AGPs. The rest, which are sex-related, are shared by cis women who also fantasize about being beautiful and feminine for their partners. Note that this isn't Moser's line about women experiencing AGP (since they do not experience the sex-unrelated tee hee I'm such a girly waitress fantasies), but that much of what we call AGP is not necessarily exclusive to autogynpehiles.

What IS the cause? I have no fucking clue, and I don't think you know either.

>>7714025
>Het males do not fantasize about women doing the dishes or knitting in a circle with other women. Those kinds of fantasies are the kind unique to AGPs.
That's a good point. It does fit a male stereotype of femininity though.

>The rest, which are sex-related, are shared by cis women who also fantasize about being beautiful and feminine for their partners.
I think there is something male about them that isn't shared with cis women. The kind of images an AGP would look at for this would be closer to those a cishet male would than a cis woman would. In fact erotic pictures of women alone would be part of the AGP's collection. A cis woman might have similar parts to her fantasies, but she wouldn't be looking at the same pictures of hot women as a cis guy. An AGP would though.

So there is a maleness to the fantasizing there even when the actual fantasy itself is shared with cis women.

>What IS the cause? I have no fucking clue, and I don't think you know either.
This is all speculation, but these factors lead me to believe ETLE. It fits.

Even ETLE doesn't explain why it would happen. It's just an explanation for what is happening.

>>7714050
>That's a good point. It does fit a male stereotype of femininity though.
Both men and women stereotype women in this fashion in sexist societies.

>I think there is something male about them that isn't shared with cis women. The kind of images an AGP would look at for this would be closer to those a cishet male would than a cis woman would. In fact erotic pictures of women alone would be part of the AGP's collection. A cis woman might have similar parts to her fantasies, but she wouldn't be looking at the same pictures of hot women as a cis guy. An AGP would though.
"AGP" here. This is not a huge sample size but I've spent months in /agpg/ and most of us read erotica and don't watch porn. We certainly don't watch cis guy porn. I say most because a few newcomers apparently do. Female PoV porn is the most common.

>This is all speculation, but these factors lead me to believe ETLE. It fits.
For the record I'm not one of those people who argue transsexuals are literally women or whatever but ETLEs just don't fit way too many pieces of the puzzle and are, as you say, just unproven speculations.

AGP, as in "some people are aroused by the thought of being feminine and/or acting in a stereotypically feminine fashion" factually exists. "AGP" in the Blanchardian typology sense does not.

>>7714103
>Both men and women stereotype women in this fashion in sexist societies.
I can't pinpoint what, but my hunch is the stereotype fits a certain male fantasy that it doesn't for women. But women can have that kind of 50's household fantasy too.

>most of us read erotica and don't watch porn. We certainly don't watch cis guy porn.
I specifically said images, not porn. Girls in bikinis and lingerie, that kind of thing. That's a male arousal too.

I suspect AGP erotica is written more like erotica for men than for women too.

>ETLEs just don't fit way too many pieces of the puzzle and are, as you say, just unproven speculations.
What do they not fit?

>"AGP" in the Blanchardian typology sense does not.
What about Blanchardian anon's FAQ link >>7713485 ? It makes the case for the two trans types. If that's wrong, what are the genuine groupings of trans people and similar, like cis AGPs?

How many trans people are AGP, in the real sense? The link says the large majority.

>>7714126
>I specifically said images, not porn. Girls in bikinis and lingerie, that kind of thing. That's a male arousal too.
Now that you mention it there is this strange genre of porn captions, where text is superimposed on some pornographic image. I guess those images could be said to be more like the type of porn men consume.

>I suspect AGP erotica is written more like erotica for men than for women too.
This seems like kind of a stretch to me. Normative men, by and large, don't read erotica. Men are visually oriented.

>What do they not fit?
Beyond it being pure conjecture:
A lot of people who went on to become AGP had genderbending fantasies as early as 4, long before they experienced sexual attraction, which is at odds with the idea of sexual attraciton begetting a cross-sex identity.
AGPs are occasionally exclusively androphilic. A lot of them experience meta-attraction to men, yes, but some are just plain attracted to men but not to women.
AGP tends to fade away after one transitions and lives as the other gender for a while. Blanchard attributes this to HRT lowering one's libido yet these individuals are still otherwise sexually active and are evidently able to be attracted to other people. If this is a target location error why would transitioning kill it alone but not all other forms of sexuality?

>Silly Ol Me
She primarily quotes Blanchard, ignoring all of the issues with his methodology.

>If that's wrong, what are the genuine groupings of trans people and similar, like cis AGPs?
You could group trans people by AGP and not AGP, just as you could group them by many other traits. The issue I take is with Blanchard's claims about how his data somehow shows exclusively androphilic MTFs are NEVER AGP and are just extremely feminine gay men who transition in order to fit into society while non-exclusively androphilic MTFs are all ETLE-sufferers, whether they're bi or gay or aesexual.

>>7714126
Part 2.

What his data actually shows is that most MTFs that experience AGP are not exclusively androphilic, that at the time the research was done exclusively androphilic MTFs tended to transition younger than the other group, and that they reported being more gender non-conforming as children. To leap from that to his grandiose claims about two clear-cut types with different etiologies is not fine.

>How many trans people are AGP, in the real sense? The link says the large majority.
I don't know. I suspect a fair amount are, but note that few remain AGPs after two or so years during which they live as women in public.

>>7710264
there is a chance you're just fetishizing everything about women and gender and thats the underlying issue for your transition, and with less sexual force due to HRT, you fear to lose your attraction and you loved fetish
could be.

>>7717410
What if I had episodes in my life when I actively regretted I was not born as a girl? I started this "episode" through fetishes and crossdressing but I'm not sure it's still just a fetish. What the fuck am I?

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>>7710264
Tbqh I used to be more into men, but hrt made me wayy more into femininity and androgyny and disgusted by masculinity.

Literally did the opposite for me.

I'm still attracted to women just as much as I was before HRT, but I'm slightly more attracted to guys now. Just coming to terms with being trans allowed me to also come to terms with being a little bit bi since I no longer had to force myself to act "normal". Starting HRT slightly increased these feelings, I'd say I shifted from being a 5 on the Kinsey scale to a 4, hypothetically maybe even a 3 if feminine, nonthreatening guys were the rule rather than the exception.

>>7710264
Women are still sexually arousing after 9 months HRT. Not sure if my sexuality has changed any. I'm finding myself a lot more attracted to men nowadays, but I've never explored my sexuality prior to transitioning, so it may not be related to hormones.

>>7718045
I was just kidding with the agp-meme but partly it could be true.
In my opinion sexual attraction can't be changed. Maybe your preferences shift, but if you 100% only like women it's most likely going to stay like that. If you're bi, as i said, it may could shift a bit here and there...
Just don't worry about it too much, okay? It's like saying one will lose libido with hrt which doesn't seem so bad when you're a one year in or when you discovered new things in you that you haven't knew before.
just chill out and don't worry about it, whatever is going to happy, you will be okay with it

I'm bi but mainly hetero and I used to like girls 100% until a few months into hrt.

>>7710264
>If I ever go into hormones it would thing I really want to avoid
Bahahaha I was begging for it to change my sexuality, a beta male trying to date women was beyond depressing. It has made me bisexual which I am a bit annoyed about but it's better than nothing. So now I simply ignore my desire for women.

>>7710537
What are you smoking? Men are straightforward (give me sex, I give you love) god knows what women want, and the bitchiness and aloofness, they're simply insufferable

>>7719522
Thanks... Your words are strangely comforting, something that's rare recently.
I could be bi, I haven't tried anything with man but I used to fantasize about sex with man. Though recently, when I tend to see myself as a girl I stopped thinking about man.

>>7710264
Stop worrying about it and just do your stuff before a horde of people including yourself start spewing AGP memes out there.

t. hetero tranny that could care less about people bashing transbians.

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>>7719729
Literally same.

I have a masc boyfriend now so everything is good in the world.

>>7719849
oh, glad to hear that. Good luck and be well.

>>7710264
24 year old here, been on HRT since I was 20. Started attracted to women, but had sexual encounters with guys a few times, am now just entirely attracted to men with no interest in women whatsoever.

>>7710264
Still pretty bi before and after.

>>7714165
>I guess those images could be said to be more like the type of porn men consume.
They are a bit of a mix of male and female porn types. But I think plenty of AGPs like sexual but not pornographic images, which fits male visual oriented arousal.

>Normative men, by and large, don't read erotica. Men are visually oriented.
Some men do and I predict AGP erotica will be more like that generally is than like erotica for women generally is.

>A lot of people who went on to become AGP had genderbending fantasies as early as 4, long before they experienced sexual attraction, which is at odds with the idea of sexual attraciton begetting a cross-sex identity.
Orientation and attraction can express themselves without sexual attraction.

>AGPs are occasionally exclusively androphilic. A lot of them experience meta-attraction to men, yes, but some are just plain attracted to men but not to women.
I'd like to know more about AGPs like this. I've only read the account of one on /lgbt/ and he seemed to be gay with the cross-sex fantasy as a single fantasy.

>If this is a target location error why would transitioning kill it alone but not all other forms of sexuality?
I think this is the biggest point towards AGP being a fetish.

>You could group trans people by AGP and not AGP, just as you could group them by many other traits.
So even ignoring the idea that non-gynephilic MTFs are never AGP, you don't think there are two distinct kinds of trans person, just lots of different traits they could be grouped by?

>>7714168
What do you think is the explanation for why some MTFs don't experience AGP?

>>7710264
tbqh i never had much attraction towards anyone pre hrt but after HRT i really started getting into other trans women

am i AGP?

>>7723635
>They are a bit of a mix of male and female porn types. But I think plenty of AGPs like sexual but not pornographic images, which fits male visual oriented arousal.
I basically never consume anything without text in it, nor know of any sites that produce non-textual AGP-targeted porn, but maybe I'm just ignorant.

>Some men do and I predict AGP erotica will be more like that generally is than like erotica for women generally is.
If I am to be honest I don't know the difference so I can't deny it haha.

>Orientation and attraction can express themselves without sexual attraction.
So you propose that these genderbending fantasies are equivalent to a normal kid fantasizing about having a boyfriend or girlfriend?

>I'd like to know more about AGPs like this. I've only read the account of one on /lgbt/ and he seemed to be gay with the cross-sex fantasy as a single fantasy.
I can't help you much there. I just ran into a few of these over many months on /agpg/ and everyone else in the thread were always surprised.

>I think this is the biggest point towards AGP being a fetish.
The consequent question is, of course: if this is a fetish why do so many repressed MTFs have it, and show signs of having it from such young ages? The idea of ETLEs ties a lot of loose ends neatly, hence its appeal, but it doesn't quite match up with what we know.

>So even ignoring the idea that non-gynephilic MTFs are never AGP, you don't think there are two distinct kinds of trans person, just lots of different traits they could be grouped by?
Mostly. I think non-dysphoric AGPs are distinct from dysphoric transsexuals, AGP or not. See the second part of:
>>7719218

>What do you think is the explanation for why some MTFs don't experience AGP?
I think that's a good question and I don't really have an answer I'm confident in. How are fetishes formed? Why do so many repressed transsexuals share this fetish? Why do some but not others develop it under similar conditions?

>>7723635
>>7724218
Continued.

I think it might come down to mental fortitude. The same reason some soldiers near an explosion become shellshocked while others don't. A natural predisposition.

>>7719522
>In my opinion sexual attraction can't be changed.
AGP is like a sexual orientation and it can go away.

>>7710537

They are also the builders of civilization, our soldiers and our fathers.

>>7710382
T H O T P A T R O L

>>7710264

MTF

Prior HRT
>Attracted to females
>Only would have sex with a woman
>Think only a very small handful of guys were good looking but not attracted to them
>Rest of the male population felt nothing for

After being on HRT
>Watches lesbian porn sometimes
>rarely think about sex with a woman, maybe a one night stand or a threesome.
>Find I am attracted to many more men then prior
>Only see myself in a long term relationship with a guy
>sexually attracted to pretty much guys only.

Prior = lesbian
Now = Heterosexual would experiment with a female but that's it.

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As mtf, dating cisfemales almost all my life has had its toll. I'be lost almost all but little attraction to the one I'm dating now, partially as we started dating pre-transition. She says she's newly pansexual upon meeting me (lesbian before) so that's good, but I can't help but have this overwhelming lust every couple of weeks. Like an urge to have myself filled to pleasure some faceless men over and over. I've dated guys in hs(as gayfag thn) but never really "popped the cherry" so to speak(I've given head before)
I guess my problem is as the much less dominant partner (and living with gf in apartment we both pay for) I haven't the nerve to really assert myself enough to shift my life onto another. Too comfy in other words. The monthly penis-vaginal sex is o-k at best so there's that atleast. fml

Tl;dr wish I had boy-toy or qt BF to pound me weekly, never dating cisfems again

>>7730226
get out biscum reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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>>7730386
Might be joining the dong side soon if I ever find the nerve to dump this cunt. Need that 'D' badddd. Being sub exclusively and bottoming with a partner who's got a vag is like being the only person who's got video games around the Amish.

>>7730498
Hey this is some anon I can kind of agree with!
Im in a 2+ years relationship with my cis GF and yes I would be dating a man if that miniscule chance would pop up. She exclusively tops me (strap-on) so I am very happy now, but she popped my cherry and I love her and we live together too. I mean I will prolly just continue as it is since im generally happy but im so curious, what's it like... To do stuff with a man.. I mean my GF is great and we can have some great sex, and then there's the times I can feel she's not really into doing that stuff to me, just does it out of the goodness in her heart and it's a sad feeling that I can't switch with her even sometimes since she's a switch but im waaaaaay sub and bottom so this is the only way. Sorry for the long post I just needed to vent abit...

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>>7730606
No problem,totally get it! I have been pegged (LOVEIT)but as far as a real man, nothing besides mouth an handees. The two guys I've blown both have been pretty meh(5"max,both bottomsXP) so I'm pretty eager and have that itch more frequently.
I loved having my REAL kinky ex just really get into dominating me. She's the one I can thank for my fetishes for being choked, tied up, bitten, and snowballing. Her favorite thing to do was to tie me doubled over on the bed,pounding my prostate, whilst depending upon mood, would either make me cum onto my own face or give me head just before I'd cum to spit it at me.

That's the only thing that comes close to the feeling of someone cumming deep into the back of my throat that gets me off.

>>7724218
>I basically never consume anything without text in it, nor know of any sites that produce non-textual AGP-targeted porn, but maybe I'm just ignorant.
I think many AGPs use pics of hot girls to project onto.

>If I am to be honest I don't know the difference so I can't deny it haha.
I couldn't define it exactly, but my prediction is that AGPs will like and write erotic literature nearer to cis men than cis women.

>So you propose that these genderbending fantasies are equivalent to a normal kid fantasizing about having a boyfriend or girlfriend?
Potentially, yes.

>if this is a fetish why do so many repressed MTFs have it, and show signs of having it from such young ages? The idea of ETLEs ties a lot of loose ends neatly, hence its appeal, but it doesn't quite match up with what we know.
Fetishes can exhibit at a young age even if they aren't sexual yet. Plenty of anons have talked about seeing something in a cartoon that they then had a fetish for, including TG.

>I think non-dysphoric AGPs are distinct from dysphoric transsexuals, AGP or not.
Do you think there are two kinds of AGP, one for non-dysphoric cis people and one for dysphoric trans people?

>>7724227
Are you suggesting mental fortitude stops trans people developing AGP, stops AGP people feeling dysphoria, or something else?

>>7735455
>Fetishes can exhibit at a young age even if they aren't sexual yet. Plenty of anons have talked about seeing something in a cartoon that they then had a fetish for, including TG.
Right. If we rule out ETLEs due to the issues I've mentioned previously then the question we face is this: why do so many children who have or will go on to develop gender dysphoria already show signs of this paraphilia at such a young age?

>Do you think there are two kinds of AGP, one for non-dysphoric cis people and one for dysphoric trans people?
I think both groups experience the same sort of AGP-as-in-the-paraphilia, but that the dysphoric group is also separately trans and this impacts the way it interacts with the fetish. Suppose you have two individuals, one from each group, who are aroused by cross-dressing. Both are turned on by the process but the dysphoric also gets a sense of self-affirmation and calm from doing so. The same sort that non-AGP dysphorics do. This is why categorization is tricky. You could argue that both groups experience AGP itself in the same way and be right. You could also argue that the dysphoric consistently experiences things the non-dysphoric doesn't as part of enacting those fantasies and thus they're distinct and be right.

One place where the distinction is rather clear-cut and actually matter is treatment. Transitioning is beneficial to the dysphoric because it addresses their gender dysphoria, and will continue to be beneficial even after the process extinguishes AGP. The same isn't true for the other group.

>Are you suggesting mental fortitude stops trans people developing AGP, stops AGP people feeling dysphoria, or something else?
The first.

>>7737976
>If we rule out ETLEs due to the issues I've mentioned previously then the question we face is this: why do so many children who have or will go on to develop gender dysphoria already show signs of this paraphilia at such a young age?
That's the mystery of the connection between AGP and being trans, which is a question regardless of being an ETLE or a fetish.

>One place where the distinction is rather clear-cut and actually matter is treatment. Transitioning is beneficial to the dysphoric because it addresses their gender dysphoria, and will continue to be beneficial even after the process extinguishes AGP. The same isn't true for the other group.
It isn't that clear-cut. Transition isn't automatically the best treatment for someone with dysphoria and might not even help it, if they don't pass for example.

>>mental fortitude stops trans people developing AGP
Why would a lack of mental fortitude lead to AGP for trans people? Why would cis people get it if that's the cause?

Blanchard's typology says straight trans people don't get AGP. Unless you think that's wrong, what's your explanation for AGP being a thing for lesbian and bi trans people?

Why the association of AGP with late transitioners? Young transitioners would still have time to exhibit AGP if the typology is wrong.

>>7723665
>i never had much attraction towards anyone pre hrt
That's interesting. What was your sexuality like?

>but after HRT i really started getting into other trans women
According to Blanchard attraction to cis or trans women would put you in the AGP category, yes.

Did you actually have AGP fantasies?

>>7710264
Used to vigorously spank it like a monkey to naked girls on /r/gonewild.

4 months hormones: Looking at naked girls is as boring as fapping to watching paint dry. Girls are getting more icky by the week.

>>7742025
non existent, I think it was because I was a shut in and rarely ever met anyone. Anyone I knew was from my school and never really liked anyone from there. Porn never really interested me.

yes, sometimes I dream of cuddling with a mtf and having a relationship with one.

>>7742252
An AGP fantasy is one where you imagine yourself as a girl and where that in itself is arousing. Is that what this cuddling fantasy was like?

>Porn never really interested me.
Not uncommon for AGPs and probably not for HSTSs either.

>>7742267
Wasn't really anything like what you are describing.

>>7741677
What is a better alternative for dysphoric AGPs that cannot pass? I've seen /agpgen/ and most of the people there who are dysphoric and haven't transitioned are miserable. There's also a lot of shame and discomfort among AGP trans women that in turn worsens their dysphoria, even among the ones that do pass. A lot of them often feel that their dysphoria and identity is illegitimate despite clearly having dysphoria which leaves them in this weird spot where they feel like both a fake woman and a fake trans woman.

>>7742498
I don't think there is a universal alternative, but definitely not repression and trying to "man up" and escape AGP.

In general, I think the best thing is to look for ways to feel feminine and relieve dysphoria. Crossdressing even if only alone, living a gender neutral life in general, finding ways to express any feminine interests where they aren't shamed.

Starting a conventional relationship with a woman who isn't understanding is bad, because it locks them in to the repression/manning up route. They should explore their sexuality and find someone compatible, maybe a woman who isn't repulsed by crossdressing and effeminacy in men, maybe a man. "Am I gay/bi?" should be unimportant. The important question is "What kind of femininity do I find fulfilling?" and then finding how to have that in their life.

>A lot of them often feel that their dysphoria and identity is illegitimate despite clearly having dysphoria which leaves them in this weird spot where they feel like both a fake woman and a fake trans woman.
It's really sad and an ironic continuation of how all trans women used to be treated. When this attitude is pushed by other trans women, some of whom may be AGP themselves, it's a really damaging part of trans subculture.

>>7741677
>It isn't that clear-cut. Transition isn't automatically the best treatment for someone with dysphoria and might not even help it, if they don't pass for example.
It might not help everyone, you're right, but some people do better even if they don't pass.

>Why would a lack of mental fortitude lead to AGP for trans people?
It might be a defense mechanism. People who can't deal with wanting what they want in their day-to-day lives deny it thoroughly. The desire then "leaks out" in the form of a fetish in less psychologically resilient individuals. As I've said I don't think this is a good answer, just the best guess I have.

>Why would cis people get it if that's the cause?
The same condition can have multiple causes.

>Blanchard's typology says straight trans people don't get AGP. Unless you think that's wrong, what's your explanation for AGP being a thing for lesbian and bi trans people?
I've heard of AGPs who claim to be straight. Mostly transvestites. They generally seem functional and no less happy with their lives than normal people so I don't see a reason to doubt them.

Fetishes frequently focus on exotic and forbidden things. Non-trans individuals might develop it because acting like the other gender is taboo.

>Why the association of AGP with late transitioners? Young transitioners would still have time to exhibit AGP if the typology is wrong.
That's a good question. A popular but definitely wrong answer is that prolonged repression causes people to develop AGP but that can't be right since children show signs of AGP. I think one possible answer is that eroticizing transitioning causes people to mistake themselves for mere fetishists. Shame and feelings of invalidity keeps individuals who suspect that something is up in the closet. AGPs try to repress for longer as a result, until they can't do so anymore.