The struggle for LGBT rights is fundamentally part of the class

I thought intersectionality was a fetish thing

The USSR, Cuba, Yugoslavia, China and basically all communist/socialist countries repressed LGBT people, which they saw as bourgeois degeneracy. I'd rather live in a free society.

>>7511496

so communist Iran is the only country that supports trannies. they force homos to become trannies in order to cure them of their unclean desire for man on man / girl on girl love. after all, a woman with a penis glued on is just as good as any actual man in allah's eyes.

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>>7509936
That statement in your picture doesn't really make sense, you can absolutely have a capitalist society without lynching minorities on the side. In fact it's down right profitable to have a wider consumer base and recruitment pool.

I'm not a socialist because it's a ridiculous philosophy.

>>7509936
Karl Marx? is that you
This dood couldnt be much more of a useful idiot for the Globalist Socialists

>>7509936
>Why aren't you a socialist?

Because I don't live in a fucking bubble and realized that this society is pretty fucking good in spite of all the made up bullshit I've exposed to being part of this community.

I voted for trump.

>>7509936
>class struggle
Nope, it's just about making sure that religion stays out of the government.

No fuck off and take your brainwashing with you.

conservatives are just animals too dim to dream and too retarded to reject propaganda

besides the fact our life is great mostly due to military-ind. Keynesian stimulus for the past 70 yrs, we have market-oriented socialist economy that cannot function without redistribution of wealth.

capitalism is just the cry of degenerate inbred narcissists that don't understand their desire to be dominated & rationalize it as fundamental state of humanity. unfortunately kyriarchy still rules and we must coddle them for a while longer

>>7511496
>>7511557
*state capitalist dictatorships

>>7511897
>we market-oriented socialist economy

What? No we don't. Since I actually consider myself a market socialist I know what it would entail, namely a system of worker-owned and democratically managed enterprises in a market economy. I consider this one of the realistic alternatives to capitalist relations of production, and there are plenty of examples to learn from, such as Yugoslav experiment with workers' self-management.

>>7511990
>Hurr dee duurr ish nut reel socialism!

You people got brain damage.

>>7511658
>you can absolutely have a capitalist society without lynching minorities on the side. In fact it's down right profitable to have a wider consumer base and recruitment pool.

It is profitable to have a wider recruitment pool, which is why we have a migrant crisis in the first place - cheap labour to exploit for a greater profit, compared to people born in the West who are used to somewhat decent working conditions. You are very naive if you don't realize the systematic division of the working class from achieving solidarity, and making them buy into spooks like nationality, religion and ethnicity.

>>7511557
>Communism has been responsible for the deaths of literally hundreds of millions of people

This is a meaningless statement. The establishment of capitalism, like all other fundamental changes in the mode of production, was achieved through violent revolutions, and its profit-seeking motive was responsible for many more millions of deaths, wars and imperialist invasions.

>>7512182
>>7512232
It's only socialism/communism if it works.
Just like it's only islam if it's peaceful.

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>>7512317

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>>7512470
dank memes comrade

>>7509936
Interesting perspective on LGBT consumerism. I see obsession with material things as a way to say to non-LGBT, "Hey, we're normal. We're valuable." Or a distraction from the hole most LGBT have felt in themselves for centuries due to rejection, confusion, self-hatred, frustration, etc.

>>7512153
I know you're probably trans but just because you consider yourself something doesn't necessarily make it true

We have socialism it just benefits the wrong parties. we redistribute wealth and provide tons of jobs for aerospace, defense, agriculture, energy.. etc. we build infrastructure occasionally and do a really shitty job providing services.

Also the money is fake

Basically we have a really fucked up socialist system, though tbf it's fucked preserve the power structures created during more free form actually capitalist 19th century

Thanks for giving everyone here a good example of what a Marxist trying to usurp a movement looks like op.

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>>7515301
>redistribution is socialism
>I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about

>>7509936
>Why aren't you a socialist?
I'm not economically illiterate pawn of global elites

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>>7515576
>pawn of global elites

The global elites are committed to neoliberalism. What the fuck are you even talking about? Right-wing ideologies are completely cucked by "free" market capitalism.

Please read a book.

>>7515620
>Using cuck unironically
>/Pol/ tier infographic
>Unironically being a Communist

Yup you've reached the dogmatic stage, the quintessential useful idiot spouting Marx like a creationist and his Bible verses. Both sharing similar IQs and an obnoxious ignorant self rigeousness

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>>7515545
>>7515620
preach it brother.

>tfw the future of humanity is fully automated gay space communism.

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>>7515686
Nobody mentioned Marx or his "verses" in this thread. I'm afraid your butthurt is showing.

It's very cute how "muh Marx" is the main defense against a movement that's been around for centuries.

>>7515620
You will grow out of it, "cis tier" communist tranny...!
Until then you are allowed to wear your fancy subculture jacket and think of yourself as more sophisticated than the rest of the world.

But before you reach age 30 you'll recognize that socialism is just as retarded, radical and unhuman like its counterparts on the right spectrum.

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>implying I'm not a socialist
>>7515989
Not an argument

>>7516106
Correct. "You'll see" is not an argument. I wasn't arguing with you in the first place. I just said that you'll grow out of it. Think of me as some kind of prophet.
You're young and not blind enough to avoid seeing all the trouble in the world. Socialism might seem as an attractive alternative during that time. But after all socialists turned out to be fanatics, who killed tons of innocent people. Che Guevara killed tons of innocent people and yet it is "fashionable" to wear a t-shirt with his face printed on it. I will never understand.

t. tranny who literally lost half of her anchestors (grandparent's generation) in the gulag

>>7516297
I'm not a tankie. I don't support the majority of socialist states. In fact, I'm against Marxism-Leninism and all forms of authoritarian socialism. I'm categorically against prison labor of any kind, which I consider to be slavery - so that rules gulags out. So none of that really applies to me. I'm gonna need to see a source on Che killing innocent people though.
If you want to look at something closer to what I support, look up Rojava, anarchist Catalonia, and the Ukrainian free territory. Also the Zapatistas.

>>7515545
>can only learn from infographics

>>7512232
Yeah, they aren't real socialism. It's possible to masquerade as something else to further your own goals.

>>7516435
convenient dodge. Anytime the crimes of past socialists are brought up, you'll here "____ was not a real socialist." So I need to ask... who is an example of a socialist leader who got it right and did good for the people?

>Rojava, anarchist Catalonia, and the Ukrainian free territory. Also the Zapatistas
Aren't these all movements of nationalists, who want their own state, but are not acknowledged by international law? I will look that up and come back after that.

Regarding Che: You are saying that you are against prison labor. Che lead the La Cabaña Fortress prison for some time. Prisoners were executed during that time (death penalty). There was a tribunal, but it was highly questionable. Also Che was famous for his summary executions (mass executions). Suspected(!) deserters, traitors etc. were shot without any trial or anything. Some of them were gunned down by Che himself.
I would quote a historian or a biographist, but you could easily discard that by saying that these people are biased. So I just quote from Che's diary:
>"The situation was uncomfortable for the people and for [Eutimio], so I ended the problem giving him a shot with a .32 pistol in the right side of the brain, with exit orifice in the right temporal [lobe]. He gasped for a little while and was dead. Upon proceeding to remove his belongings I couldn't get off the watch tied by a chain to his belt, and then he told me in a steady voice farther away than fear: 'Yank it off, boy, what does it matter.' I did so and his possessions were now mine."
That man may have been a legit traitor, I do not know, it doesn't change the fact that Che was a tyrant, who used the same methods like the system he fought against. He was feared among his own man as a brutal and quick executioner. He also spoke favorable of men being turned into "killing machines" (it was in one of his UN speeches, I guess).
Che literally only got popular in the western world because of that one foto of him.

>>7516297
>personal experience counts as an economic argument
Sure bud.
Also, all of my family has positive experiences of socialism.

>>7516473
Do you really, honestly believe that fundamental social change can come without violent revolutions and terror? Are you completely unaware of basically every socialist/anarchist state being invaded or dismantled by global capitalist powers?
I'm afraid flowers and love aren't going to fix structural economic inequality and deplorable working conditions.

>>7516493
How edgy.
The thing is that I wasn't literally arguing with my family experiences.
It should be evident to every educated person that socialism is responsible for the death of million human beings during the last century.

>>7516512
>unironically supporting violence and terror
1st thing: You are morally wrong. Murdering people is bad, m'kay.
2nd thing: You are naive in believing that violence and terror will actually work against the "global capitalists powers".
3rd thing: You'll never win a democratic process of true change by advocating terror and violence. You'd just be the next oppressor.

>>7516544
Your morality is apparently fine with an economic system that places half of the world's wealth in the hands of a few dozen individuals.
>You'll never win a democratic process of true change by advocating terror and violence. You'd just be the next oppressor.
Capitalism came about by violent revolutions that provoked moral outrage by conservatives.

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>>7516435
OH BOY IT'S THIS MEME AGAIN

>>7516844
I didn't advocate the current or any system for that matter, anon. These are just your own assumptions.
>"Your morality is apparently fine with an economic system that places half of the world's wealth in the hands of a few dozen individuals."
Where did you get this from? Why do you think that I'm fine with the current system just because I strongly disagree with your unironic opinion that VIOLENCE and TERROR would change the world for the better?

>>7517605
Communism has failed only in that it has never been achieved. Karl Marx argued that, in the beginning, a communist revolution would result in a dictatorship of the proletariat, and that this dictatorship would ultimately seek to destroy itself and establish communism. This period in between, in which the new dictatorship establishes communism is socialism. A communist society is ultimately stateless. People make fun of the "not real communism" thing, but those societies literally aren't real communism-- they don't fit necessary conditions to be considered communist. The people don't have the power, the workers do not own the means of production.
There is a crucial and absolutely legitimate criticism of communism that this image brings up, but it isn't that communism has always failed, it is that the great communist philosophers and revolutionaries have yet to establish a legitimate way of achieving communism. Dictators will never relinquish power, even talking about doing so will result in their replacement by even more brutal and totalitarian leaders. The transition from socialism to communism is impossible.

>>7518688
If any attempt to construct communism utterly and irredeemably fails, then either the manual is inherently wrong or the thing you're trying to create is inherently impossible.

Which one is it?

>>7518688
Ownership can't exist without a state. The workers can't own the means of production without those assets being protected. There are an infinitesimal number of ways to do so, but every single one requires violence. And once you have systematic violence, you have a state.

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>>7511990

> ACKTSHUALLY *spits in ur face*
> *sees ur Venezuela*
> OwO whats this...?
> *collapses*
> ACKTSHUALLY *spits in ur face*

always so entertaining

>>7512232
>chinese communism failed
have you been alive the past thirty years

>>7518886

the past thirty years when they meme'd out and started going down the neoliberal route?

"IT'S A SUCCESS except we kinda are not really socialist anymore and kinda sorta are just a capitalist powerhouse that controls its currency really well and kinda just have one party that doesn't really stand for much other than the welfare of the country"

STATELESS COMMUNISM ACHIEVED

>>7518901
"I-it's not real communism!"
Okay

>>7518946

I'm not a Marxist apologist, bb. I'm telling you as someone who hates communism that there's a reason why communists will never hold China up as an example

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>>7518886
dont do this dude

>>7511496
>I'd rather live in a free society
Freedom is a zero-sum game. All societies have an equal amount of freedom, what differs is how that freedom is distributed. If I have a right to not be harmed, that is infringing on the freedom of others. If the people have the right to democratically chose their leaders, they are infringing on their leaders' freedom to rule for life while doing whatever they want. I'd personally prefer to live in a society where the freedom to harm people like me does not exist.

>>7511529
Iran isn't Communist. And while they support mtfs, I'm not aware of any similar policy on ftms.

>>7511557
>And you can't even see the irony in your place as a pawn for the supra-elite mega-rich to take from the people that gave you your basic rights in the first place
Says the person who probably voted for Trump.

>>7512182
>Hurr dee durr Japan lost WWII!

See, I can refute objective truths by memeing about them too.

>>7512317
>and why we are going to travel to other planets and distant galaxies in the near future.
Lolno. We're not going to make it to Mars in a few decades, as we haven't even demonstrated that our equipment is good enough to make a manned return to the Moon. We don't even have the ability to survive the radiation received during a trip to Mars, never mind what we're going to do when we get there. And even when those technological advances happen that allow us to get to Mars, intergalactic travel is still virtually impossible. The nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away, meaning even if we could travel at the speed of light, and we left the planet right now, it would take 12.5 times the total time the human race has existed by now before we got there. If it was a generation ship, the people alive when it arrives probably wouldn't even be recognizably human.

Also, major inventions, like the internet, and the space program, aren't really funded through the market. They rely on government/military funding because no entrepreneur is willing to take on that kind of risk. It's only once the initial development costs have been absorbed that you're able to actually make profit by selling these things in a free market.

And competition does exist in Communism too, there are rewards for worker productivity which encourage ALL workers to produce more. Most implementations of capitalism fail to ensure competition, they fail to stomp out monopolies when it's possible to do so, and they end up growing to the point where any potential competition is simply non-viable.

>>7515337
Marxism IS the movement. The usurpation was when LGBT liberation became a consumerist meme rather than a true civil rights movement.

>>7516544
>It should be evident to every educated person that socialism is responsible for the death of million human beings during the last century.
You really think that the death toll of 20th century capitalism is less than "millions"? By 1900, capitalists were just barely starting to get out of the mentality that it's okay to cause the deaths of your workers if providing safe working conditions would cut into profits.

>>7516544
>1st thing: You are morally wrong. Murdering people is bad, m'kay.
The act of killing is itself immoral, but it's foolish to ignore the big picture - in some cases killing is necessary to prevent greater immoralities from occurring. That's the whole reason why we have militaries and police.

>3rd thing: You'll never win a democratic process of true change by advocating terror and violence. You'd just be the next oppressor.
Violence is the only democratic process that exists under tyranny. A dictator may not be willing to listen to the peoples' votes, but he will have no choice but to listen to the peoples' guns. That's the whole reason WHY gun ownership is a protected right in the USA.

>>7518845
Collective ownership is the "default". When Communists talk about "the workers owning the means of production", they're leveraging the concept of "property is theft" - the existing capitalist economic system, supported by the existing state, is the main barrier to workers owning the means of production.

Furthermore, no state lasts long without systematic violence. Without the threat of violence against the people, it has no real power, it exists as a meaningful entity only as long as the people agree to it, and if the people are in such an agreement, there is no need for a state in the first place.

>>7518886
China's been moving away from Communism in recent decades.

>>7519103
>Freedom is zero-sum
This perspective got me thinking, anon.

>>7519103
>Iran mtfs
The odd moment when hatred means state-sponsored transitioning

>>7519228
>"You really think that the death toll of 20th century capitalism is less than "millions"? By 1900, capitalists were just barely starting to get out of the mentality that it's okay to cause the deaths of your workers if providing safe working conditions would cut into profits."
Again: I'm not advocating a 19th century style capitalism or anything as I said here (>>7517792). Your argument here is literally "muh, but capitalism is shit!" You are acting like socialism was the only alternative to existing capitalist systems.
>"The act of killing is itself immoral, but it's foolish to ignore the big picture - in some cases killing is necessary to prevent greater immoralities from occurring. That's the whole reason why we have militaries and police."
Yes, sometimes it it necessary to kill. But military and police should be used in order to defend. I know that this is not the case, I'm talking about the right principles here, how things -should- be. And you were not only advocating killing people, who are a direct threat to others, but terror. And the victims of terror are always innocent people.
>"Violence is the only democratic process that exists under tyranny. A dictator may not be willing to listen to the peoples' votes, but he will have no choice but to listen to the peoples' guns. That's the whole reason WHY gun ownership is a protected right in the USA."
You are comparing the current "capitalist system" to a dictatorship. But the thing with this system is that there is not a certain person to identify, who causes all the trouble. You can kill a Saddam or a Bin Laden, but you cannot shoot capitalism to death or bomb it out of existence by spreading fear and terror.
True socialism would only mean the dicatorship of the working class. Who is the working class nowadays anyway? Are they the majority? Does the majority of people want a working class dictatorship? You cannot fight a bad system with an outdated and utterly unpractical system.

>>7519103
>Iran isn't Communist. And while they support mtfs, I'm not aware of any similar policy on ftms.

They have the same general policy toward lesbians/FtMs. There is actually at least one short film about an Iranian FtM.

>>7521481
Though as a disclaimer, I believe that lesbians are punished far less severely than gay men, and are therefore less encouraged to transition and more encouraged simply to "get over it", if that makes sense.