Dear trannies, How do you refute the "failed men"

Anyone?

>>7409880
Cause Femboys are alpha males and in all sorrts of prestigious schools and medschool and stuff.

Taking charge and making reality whatever you want is a sign of success

>>7409988
>making reality whatever you want is a sign of success
No, that's a sign of witchcraft.

doesn't explain why I sodomized myself with a nerf arrow at 9 years old

or why I've never enjoyed masculinity. adrenaline yes, but aggression, violence and domination, that kind of thing never worked for me. I wanted pretty and elegant things

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>>7409996
A couple of Faustian bargains never hurt anyone

>>7410009
this. i never wanted or tried to be a man to begin with

Listen, I know it's a dumb, insulting question, but it's one you're sadly still going to need an answer for. This is not a veiled bully thread, I'm on your side.

>>7410027
right.. I did have a couple girlfriends, but the sex was terrible and I only did it because I felt obligated to after about month of serious relationship. didn't want her to feel bad. I still experience physical pleasure & need intimacy but it didn't work out when I felt compelled to fulfill the masculine role.

I hope it can work out for me as I figure out my transition.

>as in, your dysphoria can be cured by improving your self-esteem?
But repressing my girl side is just giving up what I want for society. That's not self-esteem. My life is my own.

>>7409880
>How do you refute the "failed men" theory
I don't because I know I am one.
I honestly don't care about being a failed man because I think there are more important things to worry about.

I don't really need to, it's a stupid argument from egotistical boys who can't see why not everyone would want to be the buff alpha chad they so desperately long to be and thus project their insecurities on to others, they're the failed male, not the tranny they accuse of their own flaws. Plus when you're born a man it's a lot easier to be a failed woman, like believe me, as an alpha dudebro female supremacist hon who's testosterone isn't even entirely surpressed after a year of 7.5mg of Lupron a month and 50mg of cyproterone daily and had no trouble getting with girls throughout HS without even trying who could never pass regardless of any amount of surgery and already had a receding hairline at sixteen, there's nothing I feel like more of a failure at than being a woman.

I'm actually going to fucking kill myself lol.

>>7409880
>dysphoria can be cured by improving your self-esteem?
My dysphoria was cured the moment I stepped off the operating table and no longer had testosterone coursing through my veins. Genetrix de mysteria. Only in the dark do you see clearly.

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>>7409880
>How do you refute the "failed men" theory?

I wasn't a man in the first place, so your question does not make any sense for me.
Your question would only be valid, if you discarded the idea of inborn transsexuality. But even if this were so, I would still not consider myself a "failed man" and here's why:

I am more successful than most men. Compared to all the young men I went to the european equivalent of a high school with I did best so far desu. And that was despite the fact the dark sides of transition pulled me down for years. No to mention the depression phase etc.

But how should one define "failed men" and "manhood" nowadays anyway? Americanfags know best that the term "subculture" is becoming obsolete because it implies that there is something like a "leading culture". There is a plurality of cultures leading to different visions of manhood, e.g. going to church every sunday, marry and raise children; going to the gym at least four times a week, looking "ripped" and party a lot; being good at vidya or some tabletop game; fighting the old roles of masculinity as a SJW etc. The interesting thing is that these groups more often than not consider members of at least one of the other groups as "failed man". Of course, for a strongly religious man, who married at age 20 and became a father at 21, a promiscuous "alpha jerk" is not very likely the paragon of manhood.
As you see, the question whether I would be a "failed man" in a world, where transsexuality is not inborn but rather acquired, is not as easy to answer from a general standpoint. Personally I would disagree in this case because most - not all, but most - men value a successful career after all.

>>7409880
I just tell them that estrogen makes me happy and keeps me happy and let them try to tell me my happiness doesn't matter.

>>7409880
i dont?

i also dont go out of my way to refuse flat earthers and people who insist we didnt land on the moon

>>7409880
I don't, I am a failed man.

>>7410235
Same tbqh.

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I'm writing a novel, and these subjective experiences are very helpful. I'm at a spot where a deeply insecure (and a little self-inserted tbqh) man goes full /r9k/ on an unpassing trans girl, and I needed something for her to parry him with.

It makes my soul cringe to read and write this kind of shit. It comes from such a harmful place of self loathing. I'm tempted to write the two of them just mercilessly degrading one another until [spoiler]they explode with repressed desire for one another, since they both feel doomed to loneliness[/spoiler], but sadly I think it's much more realistic to have them dwell forever in self-inflicted isolation. It's very hard for some people to accept themselves.

>>7409880
My dad had three chads, I was born and it clear I had a different nature. I would go far as to say he nurtured it since he never really worried me about it.

This was my path idk not really failed male, since no one ever thought I'd be one.

>>7410333
>man goes full /r9k/ on an unpassing trans girl
that sounds unrealistic

neither party possess the capability to talk to other humans sharing the same physical space

You are a failed man. By becoming a female, you have failed as a man.

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>>7410398
It's called changing the rules of the game.

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>>7409880
>>7410398
>tfw too intelligent to be a man

>>7410398
Men are just failed women though. By not attempting transition you're literally giving up with out even attempt. The most pathetic of failed women.

>>7411636
Yep men are just women who had to much testosterone while in the womb and their ovaries and vagina descended into a dick and balls.

The condition known as male is a biological mistake.

>>7411682
Lol their Y chromosomes are basically little dysfunctional X chromosomes, it's so pathetic.

>>7410009
How did you sodomize yourself with a nerf arrow?

>>7411696
Hopefully soon we will have done away with men and send them all to the semen mines on mars where their sperm is extracted while they're forced to write jokes for us since women aren't funny.

>>7411709

Google image search "nerf arrow" and tell me if you don't see some objects that look dildo-like.

Is it possible to start as a straight male, become a failed male, then transition as a result, without without having AGP beforehand? That is the question.

>>7412085
Yes I believe so, most transbians are either agp or failed beta nerd males.

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>>7409880
Before I transitioned I was a tall, muscular, well-built, 8/10 guy with a promising career, respect from peers, and no issues with self-confidence as a man. Honestly, being a guy was always a hell of a lot easier in the self-esteem department; it's like a suit of armor that, even if anyone does insult or disapprove of, you have no reason to give a shit because it isn't really you anyways. You're basically invincible, in that sense.
These days I'm like 3 years into transition; gotten my voice to a place where I want it, hormones have gotten my body (and to a lesser extent my face) to a point to where I can somehow pass without makeup, despite still being 6'2", but I'm still a lanky, 4/10 girl with the curves of an ironing board and face of a mighty ape. That invincible self-esteem has taken a plummet in favor of vulnerability, but it's so much better a feeling because that's just how you are in the end.
Being a guy is way easier; don't need to strain your voice, don't need to dress up or put on makeup or make much of an effort to shape yourself, your mannerisms or your body, don't need to worry about whether you pass or not or slipping up; so many things you don't need to worry about. So many new anxieties get tacked on when you transition that I don't see how it would make sense to assume that it's an escape from it.

I feel like a lot of it was male inadequacy for me

>>7409880
>How do you refute the "failed men" theory?

>Become successful
>Dysphoria is still there

>>7412154
Oh wow yes can agree. Thats why i'm not transitioning, at the end of the day I just don't want it bad enough.

>>7412203
True but this doesn't refute it. Some beta nerd transbians could perhaps be driven to transition due to being a failed male. I've heard a theory that nerds are somewhat feminized to begin with. Identity politics might play a part too.

I was actually a proto transbian beta nerd with AGP, but was born in the mid 80s so transition wasn't an option during my formative years.

>>7409880
Hmm I'm not sure if I'm a "failed man" or not. On one hand I do fit the stereotype of former beta male transbian. But I was never AGP and I've always been feminine as long as I can remember so it's not just something that cropped up after I realized that I couldn't stand being a man.

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>>7410071

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>>7411696
Lolololololo it's so small!

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>>7414244
whoa
you make estrogen sad by not transitioning!

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Its definitely true in some cases but not all.

>>7409880
OP I think you're being EXTREMELY unfair. These are lost, vulnerable, self-destructive people who would be institutionalized and given proper care and drug regimens in a properly compassionate society, and you're asking them to do calm logical SANE things like "refute", when most normal decent sane human beings aren't even good at that, and when you already know you're completely right and they couldn't even if they weren't crazy.

Very mean.

>>7410432
I like how you think stirner chan

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>>7411682
except that's wrong, and you're retarded
>>7411696
women need two x chromosomes, men only need one and a little y chromosome but are somehow infinitely better in every way.
>>7411715
I can "dig" that if the semen is extracted via tentacle robot or furry sex-bots
>>7414433
it's not the size of the boat that matters, it's the motion in the ocean that counts

morale of the story: men are broken, and dysfunctional, but somehow still dragged women kicking and screaming all the way to where society is now, right from the stone age

>>7409880

It is neurological. It starts in the womb. You can try all you like to fight it, but you will likely be unable to hack it and kill yourself. Cross sex HRT is the only treatment. SRS is a lie sold to tgirls and tdudes with low self esteem.

>>7415005
Why not HRT + SRS? Genital dysphoria is a thing.

>>7412303

What you have labeled yourself is telling of your mental illness.

You need some ECT or something to zap the sense back into you. AGP is literally mental illness. It doesn't make you MtF. It makes you a man with a man's brain who thinks like a man, who wishes delusionally that he was a girl. That is not even close to what a MtF is.

>>7415029

All dysphoria is mental illness. You can do it if you want but it is linked to trans suicide rate. Also you can overcome dysphoria without SRS. For instance, therapy for self acceptance. SRS flys in the face of self acceptance, HRT is merely medication to fix a dysfunctional brain chemistry.

The problem is we are saying as a community that this subject is so awkward that should just let people do whatever they want and be fine with it. But then you birth waves of people like AGP scum who subsequently take over your community, make you look like a pack of self loathing men, and therefore discredit the reality of transgenderism because the average Joe now views it as a mental illness not a biological condition. When BDD people mutilate their bodies because they don't feel good about how it looks, we give them psych meds and help them create healthier behaviours. But for some reason we allow trans folk to mutilate themselves because of the exact same delusional rationale. It doesn't help. Post Op suicide rates are fucked. Because just like other BDD folks, you don't help anorexics by letting them starve themselves to death. And you don't help genital dysphorics by letting them mutilate their genitals.

>>7415092
Afaik, those "post-op suicide rates" have never actually been compared to "pre-op suicide rates", I'm not even sure if data exists for the latter group. Trans women are always going to be more likely to kill themselves because being a trans woman sucks, sometimes it doesn't catch up to them until after they've had SRS, but I highly doubt that they killed themselves BECAUSE of the surgery.

Maybe it took until after they had surgery to realize "hey, this doesn't actually fix all of the problems I have with my body/my life", and then they kill themselves. But once again, that's not because of the procedure itself.

>>7415000
>being this butthurto over silly internet jokes

Lol just like a man to be so stupid and emotional as to get so defensive the moment a joke pokes at his pathetic over inflated ego even a little bit.

>>7415037
AGP is strongly connected to being MtF. I agree it's a mental illness, I smoke weed and play vidya to manage it.

Since I live in Canada Trudeau would never allow me ECT, he'd tell me to embrace my inner woman and start HRT. Americans are lucky they got Mike "traps get zapped" Pence.

>>7409880
Society failed by assuming I was masculine. I'm feminine, and always have been. having a dick doesn't make one masculine. It doesn't even help.

>>7410130
Stop trying to be a woman when you aren't one. Accept yourself for how you are. You are a male and a man.

>>7410200
Failed men are all you faggy Europeans that don't know how to lead your women anymore

>>7409880
By having zero respect for men and their "theories."

It was so easy to refute their "theories", I was already refuting their "theories" before I knew they had "theories."

>>7412154
>6'2" manly tranny
>passable
You don't pass at all. People are just humoring you and most likely afraid of you. You sound completely delusional. Its sad.

>>7409880
>anxiety about manhood
the only anxiety i ever had about manhood was how to stop it from happening

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>>7416815
Go away please. A life as a man is not one worth living.

>>7409880
Even when I was confident, muscular, and dating women it still felt empty and sometimes painful, eventually I stopped trying and practically gave up on life. My only mental problem is the body it's attached to and accepting that was the hardest part of it all, though I'm still nervous/anxious of how much HRT will do for me at 21.

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>>7409880
I wouldn't say it's true. There's literally stories of fucking jacked alpha male navy seals becoming trannies - so really the exact opposite of a "failed male" (aka some omega pizzafaced faggot who can't get laid). Pic related.

t. non-tranny

>>7416819
>implying all european countries let refugees in
>being that uninformed
Can you even point europe on a map?

>>7409880
the biggest counterargument against the 'failed male' theory is how many agp (given the trans women who were failed but gender-conforming men are universally agp -- non-agp trans women were extremely feminine faggy gay boys pre-transition) trans women were clearly not failed males but rather extremely masc and alpha
christine mcginn was a fighter pilot
janae kroc was a powerlifter
kristin beck was a navy seal
caitlyn jenner was a fucking decathlete and a whole generation's picture of american masculinity
going masc doesn't kill agp dysphoria, just make it worse down the road

>>7417285
Knowing I have AGP and am trying to find peace with my masculinity and not transition, then seeing that list, scares the shit out of me. Transition is not an option for me now, but how will I feel when i'm 40 and Canada is even more trans friendly than it is now?

>>7416290
Right. Either I fail in society as a tranny or I quietly fail to myself as cishet male. Why is it so wrong I want to be treated like a girl?

>>7409988
Basically this

I'm on HRT and a huge sissy but it's not because being masculine is too difficult, I used to be quite into lifting and played contact sports and constantly competed in school which led me to becoming a computer engineer. I would have been able to make it being masculine if I really wanted, I just embraced my sexual preferences because I'd rather do what pleases me over what my society expects of a male.

>>7409880
>>7409880
>>7409880
>>7409880
I was a god as a man.

I am now a god as a woman.

I was highly successful and still am

>>7414441
Poor estro-chan

>>7409880
How can I be a failed man if I never tried to be one

>>7421733

Yasss Queen!

>>7409880

Most of the trannies I know have big dicks and were handsome as men.
I think their wanting to be a woman stems more from the fact that they see the inherent inferiority in men. Women are objectively superior in so many ways.
You'd have to be stupid to want to be a gross man.

>>7421922
if they thought men were so awful they wouldn't want to fuck them.

>>7409880
The obvious contradiction is that addressing dysphoria, itself, improves self-esteem to the point that supposed "failed men" should naturally start to detransition.

>>7423322
This is interesting.
Tell more.

>>7421922
But thats not true at all, objectively men have so many physical and mental upsides. Just normal men, not some super alpha or genius dudes. Testosterone is not a joke.
Yet I still rather be a woman cause I have feminized brain and I feel unhappy being a man. And Im not even 'true-trans', I didnt have much dysphoria at young age, just hated becoming manly.

Handsome men make unpassable transgils btw, you need to have a small face whith no manly features. Ugly boys with no jaw make better transgils than handsome guys.

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>>7409880
>failed male
>fail male
>f male
>female
Its all so clear now senpai

>>7409880
Psychologically speaking, I have always been a female. I have acted out a persona for a chunk of my life, but that was a male persona. Therefore, on one side of the coin I refute that claim.
However, biologically speaking, I am a failed male. On the moment of conception, it was determined that I would become a man. Therefore, on this side of the coin, I acknowledge that claim.

The reason transsexual people generally don't want to hear such a thing is because of the biological truth of the claim. It is a surefire way to hit them where it hurts. Therefore it can have further repercussions on the mental stability of the transsexual person. It can be one of the triggering factors of those fucked up things trans girls say about themselves. It is a reminder of the cause of the whole mess, so the mess comes up.

This is just patriarchal bullshit, note how there's no "failed woman" theory for FtMs

>>7425362
I'd think that's mostly because there's no publicity for FtMs; no one even knows they exists never mind cares what they do.

>>7425362
Patriarchy is biological reality you retard.

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>>7409880
I refute it by saying that male life can be hard; and female life can be hard; it all depends on your various circumstances outside of your gender-how much you earn, where you live, if you are disabled, what is your lifestyle; etc.

But one thing is harder then male and female life for sure, and that is a tranny life. So if it was true that someone became a tranny cause they couldn't handle being male, it would make no sense for them to transition into even higher difficulty.

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>>7425862
Patriarchy is the result of gendered socialization

>>7425362
probably will be when trans men get more public attention, especially given aap trans men are now a much larger share of the ftm population (they used to be extremely rare because it was almost impossible for a gender-conforming woman to transition)
i know a lot of aap guys and 'failed girl' would be a perfect explanation of every last one if i wanted to be cynical and sell out my friends