Does /lgbt/ support Jordan B. Peterson's fight to stop

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>>7314199
Why does he think he's so important?

No, I'm not an edgelord

>>7314207
He sees it as a dangerous precedent because it goes beyond merely preventing people from saying certain words (which already interferes with free speech) and actually forces words into people's mouths. The university he works for has through their actions indicated that they and their legal experts do believe that even by saying he won't observe these laws he may already be breaking the law.

The proponents of the legislation argue that it's not a big deal because they will fine you rather than send you to prison. However if you dn't pay the fine, they eventually will send men with guns after you to throw you into prison.

Also keep in mind he is a university professor with a large number of students, he can't possibly keep track of all the pronouns if a number of his students decide to use them. Yet he will be legally obligated to so under the law as written.

He has no bias against gay or trans people so far as I can tell, and no problem calling a trans woman she or a trans man he. He just doesn't believe it should be encoded into the law that you can punish someone for not using words made up by ideologues. He has studied all forms of totalitarianism for many years and knows that they all try to enforce new uses of words to control people, so this is what he's concerned about.

>>7314199
Interesting discussion between Jordan Peterson and Theryn Meyer (who is trans, if you didn't know).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_V9_j4dVuY

mtf here. He's a twat, I've rolled my eyes quite a few times at his whining about "having to keep track of SO many pronouns :(" BUT I Totally support him. Free speech should be protected and not legislated.

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>>7314263
Not my question though. Why do you feel the need to participate in kiss ass shit and celeb worship around him? It's not like he has a unique opinion.

A debate with him on TVO, Theryn Meyer appears in this one too, which I think is how they met. Some of his opponents are clearly unhinged, one literally claims sex (not gender, but actual biological sex) doesn't exist. Conveniently, he (?) 'doesn't have time' to back that claim up with evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kasiov0ytEc

>>7314283
Huh? I'm not worshiping him or kissing his ass. He is taking a stand for his beliefs when it would be much more comfortable for him to keep quiet about the subject. He is exposing himself to some legal and professional risk.

>>7314283
>It's not like he has a unique opinion.
He is the only one bringing public attention to the disturbing implications of this legislation.

>>7314275
There are 58 gender options on Facebook. 56 more than actually exist. How is that not ridiculous? Do you not realize that these Tumblrkin faux-queer genderfluids are giving LGBT a bad name? Many trans people have written him letters of support.

>>7314199
dubs checked.
jordan b. peterson is a true hero of our times.

>>7314367
No there aren't you retard have you tried using Facebook? There is male, female and custom where you can write whatever

>>7314531
No, I don't use it. At least for a time they had a dropdown list. I guess they figured that was too constricting and there are now infinite gendets.

>>7314604
*genders

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-rokos-basilisk-2014-8
http://blog.talkingphilosophy.com/?p=7263

>>7314367
If you forget someone's pronouns literally just ask them I've done it 1000s of times with my friends.

Coincidentally my gender studies professor had a class of just under 60 people and she remembered everyone's name and pronouns, no quesiton.

>>7314889
You think people should face legal threats for using the language norms instead of xir/xie/hir/etc.? It's not just about whether you think he should but whether you think we should all be forced to. Why do you get to force your words into my mouth?

>>7314903
Should I be allowed to call black people the N-slur without facing repercussions?

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>>7314199
>>7314273
>>7314284

Why do you keep making this thread? Are you autistic?

>>7315047
This is the first time I've ever made a thread about this. I did notice seeing another thread about it someone else made before. I guess other people care about issues of personal freedom here too, shocker.

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>>7316021
Don't lie, fag. I've seen this like three times all with variations of the same header.

>>7315040
The difference is between preventing people from saying words and actually forcing words into other people's mouths. Not to mention that calling someone a word so historically associated with disrespect as 'nigger' is nothing like calling people he or she based on reasonable assumptions from how they present themselves instead of learning made-up nonsense words.

Also it should not be illegal to say nigger, although people should be free to fire you or call you a racist for saying it. This legislation would make it illegal to not use people's personal pronouns.

There is no good sensible reason for anyone to even use these words in the first place. They should be free to do so if they choose but where do they get off forcing me to do so? 'Gender fluid', 'non-binary', 'genderqueer', these are not real genders, it's ridiculous. You are either a male or a female (trans men included in male and trans women included in females). And there are intersex people but they are a minute percentage of the population with a birth defect and the majority of them identify with one of the two genders. There is absolutely no reason to accept all these new genders and pronouns, it just needlessly complicates things and makes new hoops for people to jump through with no societal benefit. Just to stroke the ego of a few people and reinforce that they are special snowflakes.

>>7316061
Then you should be able to point me towards these threads with almost identical headers in the archives. But they won't actually be that similar because they were made by different people.

>>7316070
LGBT are a minuscule percentage of the population, why should they be given any protections?

>>7316070

>the majority of [intersex] identify with one of the two genders

fucking lol
I'm guessing you've never met an intersex person irl

>>7316117
How does that follow? I'm not saying that we shouldn't give intersex people protections because they're a miniscule percentage of the population.

Look at it this way, there are people born without hands, but we don't stop the general social convention of handshakes based on that fact. If we do encounter someone without a hand we won't attempt to shake their hand, and if we do encounter one of the extremely rare intersex people who don't identify with one of the two genders and don't clearly present as one or the other we would probably avoid using pronouns to refer to them or qask their preference. The point is these are rare exceptions which we accommodate when they occur, we don't base our entire society around these exceptions, it would be a massive waste of time and effort to do so. Especially since the vast majority of people not identifying as 'he' or 'she' are NOT intersex and are just trying to make other people's lives difficult so they can earn medals in the oppression Olympics and feel like unique little gems.

>>7316154
No I haven't which isn't surprising since the condition is so rare.

Wikipedia:
>Like all individuals, some intersex individuals may be raised as a certain sex (male or female) but then identify with another later in life, while most do not.

I interpret this as saying most intersex people do identify as the gender they are raised as. I assume most would be raised as one gender or the other since their social life would be very difficult otherwise.

But even if you are right and most intersex people do not identify as one or the other sex, it is still irrational to make such a massive change to society as to not automatically assume peoples gender and pronouns based on visual cues. You can't expect professors to go through the whole class and ask people their gender and preferred pronouns and then memorize those. And if anything this might actually be more intrusive and upsetting to people who don't wish to discuss it.

>>7314199
He's being hyperbolic, they're just adding "gender expression" to a pre-existing law about not spreading hateful content and the like. No one is going to be jailed for not calling someone whatever weird thing they want to be called.

>>7316210

Believe me, I'm not arguing your point. I agree with you. I'm intersex and it just drives me crazy when people use us without knowing wtf they're talking about is all. We aren't actually that rare, we occur as often as redheads. I am very active in the intersex community and I would say most of them ID as nonbinary.

>>7316212
It's ridiculous that such a law even exists in the first place to be added to. The university's own actions and requests to Peterson indicate that they do think his even saying he will refuse to use these pronouns may be violating the law. They have a legal team who they consult with on these matters. And they apparently decided that it wasn't so ridiculous a concern and advised Peterson to stop saying these things so he, and they, wouldn't run afoul of the law.

That's one of the problems with laws, if you write them without much specificity and in an open-ended manner they can be used to justify abuses that the law's authors may never have intended.

>>7316158
>and are just trying to make other people's lives difficult so they can earn medals in the oppression Olympics and feel like unique little gems.

I bet you have never met any of these people, have you? Why are you so sure of their motives?

>>7316227
Okay, sorry for the errors. But it occurs to me that intersex people who do want to fit in as one or the other gender would by default not want to participate in the 'intersex community' and would instead just want to blend in and pass as what they were raised as. That being the case the intersex community would inherently be unbalanced to have more of those who don't identify as male or female. But that wouldn't necessarily represent the majority of actual intersex people out there living their lives. Just a thought.

>>7316259

A good point to make. However, I would also say that being intersex is something that is constantly happening to you. You are always going to the doctor and being poked and proded at and treated as an abomination. It's really hard NOT to seek out community of people who understand what it's like. I agree there might be some confirmation bias but I wouldn't discount them as being the minority either. What's your opinion on intersex who ID as nonbinary?

>>7316237
That's the thing though, i was always a dumb law,yet people are only worrying about it now that"gender expression is involved. It was vaguely worded and potentially easy to abuse from the start.

>>7314263
>Also keep in mind he is a university professor with a large number of students, he can't possibly keep track of all the pronouns if a number of his students decide to use them

That's bullshit though. He was asked why not just use "they/them" pronouns, which of course already exist in the English language and most people are ok with and he couldn't give a straight answer.

I mean, it's ok if he doesn't want to use those pronouns, but he shouldn't pretend he's fighting for a greater cause as an excuse.

>>7316290
I'm okay with that and see it as completely different from other people who identify as nonbinary, since it has a biological basis. Gender and sex are not independent of one another in the majority of cases, generally one's gender will be identical to his or her sex. Trans people are a rare exception to that. But if you have an indeterminate sex then it makes sense that your gender identity might not fit neatly into either category. I doubt Peterson would have a problem with that either in that very specific instance.

>>7316298
I agree. Actually there have always been people who disagreed with the law. But adding new categories to it just makes it worse and increases the potential areas of abuse.