Is there any way for LGBT people to advocate for our rights without

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>>7240180
If people are too stupid to not get defensive and alienated it's their own fault.

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>>7240180
By continuing to force people to acknowledge our existence, while at the same time not calling everyone whom homosexuality makes uncomfortable, homophobic. Also renouncing trendsexuals and fags.

>>7240521
>By continuing to force people to acknowledge our existence, while at the same time kissing the ass of anyone that tries to deny us rights

Hurrrrr

>>7240551
You know what fuck you, shit like this is why Trump won this election. People are not going to give a rats ass about you if all you do is call them a shit lord and complain.

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>>7240521

>>7240521
STOP STICKING THE FAG FLAG ON OTHER FLAGS YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS REEEEE

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>>7240568
Yes goy. Don't have your own opinions. Let people's feelings should shape your personality, ideas and ideals. Remember that the thoughts of others count more than your own. Bless

>>7240568
Trump won because of voter fraud. He would have still won if he ate ten babies on stage. He would have still won if it was proven he was from outer space. And anyway I will never start respecting straight people just so I can watch them make it a felony to disrespect them. Straighties gonna straight, and as soon as one of them tries to straight to my face, I'll shoot them, simple as that.

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>>7240588
FUCK YOU I'LL DO WHAT I WANT!!!

>>7240180
Yes, just advocate for your rights. Without falling into the shitty trap of identity politics
Seriously it's not that hard, just say things like "gay marriage should be legal" and "discrimination against LGBT individuals is wrong" without saying dumb shit like "KILL ALL MEN" or "but feminism is a good thing!"

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What the fuck happened to this place it used to be so red-pilled, but even now I'm starting to see identity politics corrupt it.

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>>7240703
>WAHHHHHHH words hurt me!!!!!!! Ban them!!!!
Care to explain why you're a weak bitch?

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>>7240732

>>7240180
Hi, my name is Sam and my story's kinda long so I actually already made a video about it. Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvIZQ9sZt_8 [Embed]
Hopeyou enjoy
thx

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>>7240703
>unironically using the term "redpilled"

>>7240180
What lgbt rights are there left to advocate for?

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Can someone once and for all explain to me what 'identity politics' is? Because it seems to me fags voting to favor fags because, surprise surprise, they're not going to vote themselves into conversation therapy camps.

>>7240180
yes.

>advocate a policy that helps LGBT people
>explain that policy, and why it is just and/or beneficial to society.
>if people oppose this policy, ask them to explain why
>when they give an actual explanation, offer a rebuttal, don't just ignore their argument and call them a bigot.

it's really that simple. the reason so many people feel alienated from LGBT politics is because, when they don't support us, our mainstream (not just our radical fringe) can't seem to engage with their arguments without resorting to calling them bigots.

>>7241138
>>7240521

But they ARE a bigot and they ARE homophobic.
Too fucking bad, sweets. I understand I may 'have' to in order to get things done, but it's fucking disgusting that you must lick the boot of your oppressor and make sure you don't make too much a fuss over yourself. It's only your life, after all.

>>7240551
You've got it wrong. Understand that as a homo, the sight of you engaging in PDA is roughly equivalent to the sight of an extremely obese person attacking a sandwich like you would attack a dick. Repulsive though it is to behold, it is not a moral judgment on you as a person nor is it correlated with the desire to deprive you of legal rights.

>>7241137
Identity politics is more or less the pastime of idle liberal arts majors. It revolves around the assumption that people are defined by certain traits like gender, race or sexual orientation and that these things are essentially what makes the person , rather than being secondary characteristics. Every interaction gets analyzed into components along these lines. It's all about stressing "difference" an now these differences structure the way various groups or individuals treat each other.

If you think about it too deeply it inevitably results in tumblr-tier navel gazing. It ends with people compartmentalizing themselves into ever more removed identity categories, such as "Demisexual three-dicked albino quad gendered Sasquatch."

Ditching the BLT would be a start.

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>>7241137

TLDR: what do LGBT issues have to do with the more important, and historic divisions between Dems and Reps?

your right that gays advocate gay issues. but most democrats aren't gay, and most of the democrats who aren't millennials outright opposed gay rights until very recently. But now they support LGBT issues. That's because the democrats are using LGBT identity politics to secure the millennial vote.

Identity politics is when political parties stop focusing on their primary political goals, adopt more specific niche groups, and start advocating that group's goals. Niche goals that don't really have anything to do with the party's primary objectives, or even contradict those objectives.

for example, the republican party wasn't always the more religious party. What does states rights, lower taxes, and a friendly business climate have to do with Christianity? Very religious people used to be pretty split between the two parties, with the democrats having more of them due to welfare being seen as Christ-like charity. Picking up Christians was a just a cynical political strategy by republicans. By catering to niche social issues like abortion, which was traditionally a more evenly split partisan issue.

The democrats do it also. Democrats used to be the party the working class. How does encouraging low skilled illegal immigrants who will work at or below minimum wage help blue collar Americans? It creates a labor surplus and hurts blue collar Americans.

Aside from the religious-right, there's nothing else about the republican base that opposes LGBT issues. Imagine if republicans never tried to get the religious vote. They'd probably be the LGBT party. In line with their libertarian and states-right's position, Republicans would have been the ones opposing President Bill Clinton in 1996, when he signed the Defense of Marriage Act, which bans the federal Government from recognizing the same-sex unions that were legal in some states.

>>7241222
>It revolves around the assumption that people are defined by certain traits like gender, race or sexual orientation and that these things are essentially what makes the person , rather than being secondary characteristics. Every interaction gets analyzed into components along these lines. It's all about stressing "difference" an now these differences structure the way various groups or individuals treat each other.
>more or less the pastime of idle liberal arts majors.
You just described /pol/ though, anon-kun.

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All i have to say is, how do you think some redneck who lives in trailer, lost his job to outsourcing, cant feed his kids, lived paycheck to paycheck, and has a heroin or prescription pill addiction feels when some ivy league educated rich cunt tells him he is privileged and his life matters less than ( insert identity)


He feels like voting for the populist demagogue whose going to make america great again.


While the left has been brainwashed into supporting globalist identity politics, they have cast out the working class, mocked them, told them to accept their death and replacement.

and they looked back and said "no"


these social justice warriors, never talk about ecnomics, never talk about class.
Only talk about emotions, only talk about race or gender or sex, and the rich love this, they love how stupid you fucking liberals are, its so much easier to divide and conquer when the lowerclass isnt unified and fighting over who is the most oppressed


hey, racism is bad, but maybe if you actually ever want to change anything you uhhh, focus on economics and class cause the people who actually run things are rich land owners and business men and not some hayseed living in a trailer living paycheck to paycheck

>>7241389
>While the left has been brainwashed into supporting globalist identity politics, they have cast out the working class, mocked them, told them to accept their death and replacement.
>these social justice warriors, never talk about ecnomics, never talk about class.
Most younger liberals supported Bernie who focused his whole campaign around that sort of thing.
Not our fault if too many people fell for the trickle-down meme and shit themselves at the sound of the word "socialism"

>>7241406
Holy shit you fucking idiot, you liberals have the memories of fish.

People liked bernie, he was different, this election was about being anti establishment,
It was the DNC who fixed the process against bernie to put in their queen Hillary

The working class were screaming for anyone, right or left, that was anti establishment, anti neolioberal, anti status quo, and you democrat motherfuckers fucked up hard

>>7241389
The problem is that the concerns of identity politics are correct, but they're fucking useless without class analysis. The liberals in the democratic party specifically push for a class-blind identity politics so that they can frame themselves as progressives while advancing neoliberal economics despite them being extremely destructive for marginalized people whether they're white, black, gay, straight, cis or trans. As a fucking tranny from a poor family I can tell you all of these shitty neoliberal "queer" icons don't fucking represent me at all, and while the jobless redneck from west virginia might have a ton of retarded and hateful thoughts, I understand his economic plight, and believe that if the Washington elites hadn't spent the last three decades shitting on him he probably would not need to scapegoat minority groups to explain why his life sucks. Basically neoliberal identity politics are a sham because neoliberalism promotes the same fucking bigotry its liberal wing pretends to oppose, its pure divide and conquer shit.

>>7241502
and now is the time to purge the democrats of that stupidity but what i see is a doubling down of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEWHITE MEN ARE EVIL.

So, i look forward to trumps second term.

You know obama, you know how he won, he won because he ran on HOPE AND CHANGE, not being black, yeah, a lot of people voted for him because he was black,but he appealed to the working class. He didnt change anything, and thats why people got angry and voted for MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
And when trump fucks up, the next guy should run on MAKE AMERICA HOPE AND CHANGE AGAIN.

Ididnity politics is poison, ECONOMICS IS MORE IMPORTANT

>>7241593
One of the reasons I find economics so important is BECAUSE i'm trans, not in spite of it. You know why being transgender sucks? Because unless you're born lucky, its often a one way ticket to poverty. Look, the shit about bathrooms is not irrelevant to me, but you know what's much more important to me? An economy that works for the people, an economy where the bosses don't have the power to treat you like disposable trash and where if I'm qualified I can get a job despite being a tranny. My concerns are ultimately the same as the much maligned blue collar worker from the rust belt: Food on my plate and a roof over my head. Neoliberalism isn't going to give that to either of us.

Identity politics identity politics don't stand up for your own rights trust the system suck up to the man identity politics identity politics your rights don't matter roll over and die identity politics

pure conservative philosophy right there, 10/10 brainwashing, it's super effective

Now how best to make a Kool Aid identity politics hybrid meme? Maybe Kool Politiks? Identity Aid?

>>7241619
What do you think of employers avoiding hiring trans employees in order to avoid the drama/bad PR that can come as a result of hiring an oversensitive snowflake trans person dead set on viewing the world through a victim complex?

As someone who's been involved in hiring before, I can tell you that the risk of bad press if there's ever trouble with a "special" case is a much larger concern than the fact that the person is trans, gay, or any of the media's other pet protected classes.

>>7241686
>I only never ever hire minorities because I'm a good person who thinks about others, never ever because I'm a piece of shit animal who sucks Jesus's shithole. Also Bernie 2020, communism for all straight people, we all have the right to work and food!

As if.

>>7241699
And this is precisely why you don't get jobs. Nobody wants to deal with a bitter, hysterical asshole.

>>7241706
Quit lying you worthless dog shit. I don't get jobs from straight people because you're still breathing and not bleeding in the ditch from the neck were Jesus asshole worshipping cucks all belong.

>>7241686
Not all trans people are like that, if they're qualified for the job you hire them, if they prove themselves a bad employee you do what you need to do. Assuming that all trans people are insane and oversensitive is discrimination via stereotyping, its like assuming hiring a black guy means he's gonna steal.

>>7241718
Seriously though, I appreciate you doing such a good job of proving my point. Nobody in their right mind would want to hire a head case like you.

>>7241732
The simple fact is, when heterosexuals swing box cutters at fellow workers, they're just having a spiritual crisis and are given 5 more chances. When a trans person like myself gets a box cutter swung at me by a straight, I get fired for workplace disruption.

You can never fool any sort of minority into thinking your kind fire us for good reasons. We all know what you really are.

>>7241736
idk one of my best friends is a trans woman who works as a receptionist and she's one of the most well-adjusted people I know and apparently is being promoted for being so good at her job.

>>7241742
I'm actually trans myself and I agree with you, I consider employment protections for minorities a really important issue, more so than some of the issues pushed around by neoliberal "progressives" such as bathrooms and marriage.

>>7241736
And if I were in charge of the world I would have cops for you to eat your own family, because you deserve that, and you prove it with every word you type.

But the world will end, thanks to your president dump, and all those thousands of years of you cucking yourself to glorious leaders will have meant nothing, and finally I'll get my wish, and all hetero infections will be dead forever. Enjoy. :)

>>7241754
It's not either or. I was never interested in cucking myself to the straight and giving up these five rights just so I could have this one, or vice versa.

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>>7241466
>It was the DNC who fixed the process against bernie to put in their queen Hillary
That was my main point point, most actual liberals didn't support that shit. While she did have a lot of supporters who drank the McCarthyist and identity politics Kool-Aid, most Democrats don't care about that stuff.
You keep generalizing the left as a bunch of SJWs while whining about how horrible it is for them to make generalizations about you like a fucking hypocrite.
>>7241502
You're implying that the right doesn't do the exact same thing, just with different boogeymen. The wealthy on both sides of the political spectrum promote that shit to ensure the middle and lower class keep the torches and pitchforks pointed at eachother rather than the rich, and you're delusional if you think a billionaire narcissist lobbyist who has sent jobs overseas and avoided taxes will actually help the poor, he's more likely to just take action against the scapegoats he's given them such as immigrants and obamacare.
The only silver lining of this whole shitshow election is that it might end up causing the neoliberals to get booted in favor of New Deal Democrats.

>>7241754
The main point I was trying to make is that the identity politics pushed around by groups like the democratic party are ultimately fruitless and hypocritical, its pandering that doesn't try to address some of the biggest reasons why our lives are miserable, why would I give a shit about being able to get married to another trans woman if neither of us can even have stable employment? And these are the kind of things they don't want to touch because ultimately they are still a party dedicated to neoliberalism and ensuring that business owners have tyrannical power over employees.

>>7241767
I'm not a Trumper, the GOP is just as fucking rotten, maybe even more so, than the democratic party, they play their own brand of identity-based politics, except centered primarily on Evangelical shit, gun owners and now I guess white power.

>>7241781
You're a trumper dumper. Enjoy your apocalypse, atheist flavored apocalypse. ;)

>>7241765
Yeah we ideally speaking should not concede one fight so we can have another, its just that the political party that claims to represent our interests makes sure to only care about the fights where they don't risk their corporate donors, ultimately they just use us as political pawns and I hate it, I want us to have gay marriage and safety and jobs and security but the only group that will even acknowledge us only cares about us insofar as we don't disrupt their shitty economic system. The other party would happily exterminate us if it increased their house seats.

>>7241801
Girl I fucking hate Donald Trump, he's a fascist and his VP is a religious zealot abomination. I just feel that the Dems are never going to really help us.

>>7241819
Nice cuck sucking, trumper dumper. I almost got super duper duped. ;)

>>7241829
I think I'm done trying to have a constructive argument with you, I think you're confusing me with the other Anon, I'm not suicidal enough to support Donald Trump and his son of a bitch VP.

>>7240812
We need more sam hyde shilling on this board

>>7241844
There's nothing constructive about you trying to trick me into sucking up to the Dumper in Chief, shithead. :)

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>>7241801
>>7241829

>>7241854
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Actually you not liking something is the litmus test that proves it's great. :)

>>7241868
>Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad
Incorrect

vote 4 trump or ur a pussyboi

>>7240180
Talk ideas and not identity. Rational people recognize that humans have rights. Blaire white is a good example.

>>7241389
Idgaf what that redneck thinks or feels. I say throw em some bootstraps and tell em to have at it because apparently all those social services that would help them had to be cut to give rich cunts even more tax breaks and subsidies.

>>7241363

Bigot's gonna bigot, whether they're right or left wing.

I would love to see a candidate that supports LGBT rights and doesn't support mass immigration or out of control multiculturalism.

wow sure seems brocialist in here ayy lmao
fuck off berniebros

>>7240180
>our rights

What the fuck are rights exactly?

You're simultaneously weak and arrogant, and for that reason you deserve everything coming to you.

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>>7241502
>he probably would not need to scapegoat minority groups to explain why his life sucks.

He's not scapegoating anyone.

You're just too afraid to admit the truth of nature, that his kind gave birth to you, without him you wouldn't exist, and if anyone is scapegoating it is you.

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>>7242361
Hi
https://berniesanders.com/open-borders-a-gimmick-not-a-solution/

>>7242610
Mass immigration doesn't mean just open borders (which is a libertarian utopia) It also means like taking in tens and hundreds of thousands of people, so no. Bernie isn't good enough for me on this issue.

>>7240180
No.
Our rights are not set in stone and exist solely by the grace of the majority finding us too entertaining to systematically eradicate yet.
Something no single international law in the world condemns.

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>>7240180
>rights

>>7243283
>rights aren't set in stone
No, they are written on an old ass piece of parchment that is more revered than most anything else. Best thing is is that they are inherent and natural, which means no one can take it away from you.

Your mistake is relying on others to protect your rights, when one of the most important rights is the ability to defend yourself (with arms). Trusting others to protect you is foolish, and you have no right to complain when they fuck you over.

>>7243981
Go back to /pol/ and whine about how liberals are stealing your right to rape babies, christcuck.

>>7244012
How does it feel to fear? Such a little bitch that you cry when politics doesn't go your way. They could make it legal to kill gays and I still wouldn't give a fuck to fear them.

Know why? Because I can defend myself, and I have agency over my life. Can you say the same?

>>7243981
Your mistake is thinking that inherent and natural rights somehow mean shit when a single penstroke on that old ass piece of parchment can casually deprive you of every single one of them.

And then what?
what are you gonna do when it's legal to shoot you with no repercussion from the government?
You cannot hope to kill them all.

>>7244047
I don't fear you dog shit. My straighty mother and father were trying to kill me as soon as I got out of diapers. Straighties have swung baseball bats at my head since kindergarten. Only a worthless straighty infection like you, who has been coddled every day of your life, feels fear.

>>7244047
You couldn't defend your eating habits, much less your body or life or agency you lying little shit cuck.

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>>7240180

>>7244105
>socialism: it's only socialism when it does work
Reminds me of Islam.

>>7240180
You realise that fighting for your rights is identity politics to those people right? They only way they're happy is if you meekly accept being a second class citizen.

>>7240180
By seducing politicians. If more gays made a concerted effort to seduce and expose officials and public figures it can only get better.

>>7243207
Jim Webb is one, but he could be a little tougher on immigration.

>>7240180
Talk about class, work, healthcare, education issues when talking with the other side

Vote for the guy that does all that + LGBT

>>7244105
>>7244128

>I've never read a book on socialism and believe everything Milton Friedman says

kys

>>7240180
>without falling into the shitty trap
This is the problem, too many people here fall into traps and then they make threads about it

>>7241269
Jesus Christ this country is a fucking shithole. The whole world is a fucking shithole with no hope for recovery.
I think it's about time for the extinction of the human race.

>>7240180
By definition campaigning for a certain identity is identity politics. Even seeing things through the political lens of identity is identity politics. You have also fallen for the meme.

>>7240180
testing

>>7245062
>y-you can't make a joke about people true Scotsmanning their brand of socialism
how about you kys instead?

>>7240180
what rights would you aliens like?
marriage is religious, this is a semi capitalistic country, if you operations and you got the money you can get em. So what more is needed? The right to force others to pay tons of money for your brain damage? Na you don't got that right, but by all means work for it and pay for it yourself.

>>7245625
>damage control
>it was just satire xD

No no, you kys

>>7245657
>marriage is religious
what about all the non religious married people?

>>7245694
>you damage control now because you offended precious socialism
kindly off yourself with a towel, a screw and a bucket of sand.

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>>7245716
>damage control is when you call people out on their bullshit
>but it's OK because it's just satire bro xD

Stop

>>7245783
>that is bullshit because I say so
ok

>>7245812
>strawman arguments aren't bullshit

ok

>>7245845
>it's a strawman because I say so
ok

>>7245864
>it's not a strawman because I did it

ok

>>7245888
>ok
ok

>>7245888
>didn't actually post anything
ok

>>7244105
>When you try to explain world history to Capitalists but first you have to explain the word "imperialism" to them.

>>7245911
>didn't post anything because I say so
ok

>>7245928
Oh no you got me it was me talking to myself all along.