Does early childhood transitioning actually carry any legitimate

the only legitimate health risk:
>infertility

>>7225202
is suicide, drugs, promiscuity, and other shit a health risk?

Medical transitioning is something that should wait until right before puberty.
Social transitioning causes incredible advantages in the mental health of young trans kids.
When kids get to grow up as the gender they identify as, they are much more succesful, mentally well, and happy.

>>7225226
And by medical transitioning I mean doctor monitered hormone therapy. Starting with hormone blockers and then puberty causing hormones when the kid is ready for puberty. ( the puberty that alignes with their gender )

>>7225202
higher self harm and suicide rates

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>>7225221
see: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2016/02/24/peds.2015-3223

>>7225240
Thank you for this!! Science and psychology is on the side of transitioning = better mental health.

>>7225240
children never go out in the real world. make it a study after high school and ill listen

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>>7225221
also: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

>>7225263
This is awesome. Thank you for these screenshots.

>>7225221

That's actually what's avoided by starting early.

>>7225310
Yup. Starting early is all around positive for ones health.

>>7225343
Are you mad that I short circuited your baseless "transitioning makes you 40% more likely to kill yourself" argument?

>>7225343
>the facts prove you wrong
>"m-muh feels, this is nothing like my safe space /pol/ told me to believe ;_;"

>>7225343
Biased opinions verses overwhelming scientific evidence.

>>7225368
No, that's not my argument.
Some people are so insane, that they just want their legs cut off. Should medicine engage in satisfaction of their crazy desires? After all, they can become happy, once the legs are absent.
No, I don't think so. The proper treatment is medication to fix their brains, not their body image.
It is delusional to think that you can reassign your sex. If you were born as a man, you'll die as a man. It doesn't matter whether you mutilated your genitals, or worn woman clothing. Anybody can see that you're still a man (just judging by proportions of your extremities) and they think how crazy and stupid you are. That's so shameful. I pity you so much.

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>>7225411
mike stop shitposting and get back to helping donald make america great again

>>7225411
Guess what
Your ignorant opinion isn't changing anything.
Proof is transgender kids are healthy when you let them be themselves. Proof shows it isn't hurting them or anyone else. It's healthy. It's valid. And I will support trans kids for the rest of my life because they are amazing and they deserve love.

I wanted to be a girl when I was 10 and my dad just beat the fuck out of me. Guess it worked on me.

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>>7225310

>>7225411
>worn
wore*. My bad.
>>7225429
You are wrong about it. What makes you think I support him?
>>7225439
>Proof shows it isn't hurting them or anyone else.
Would making a person sterile by destroying their genitalia not qualify as hurting him? Or would a person with destroyed genitalia be an instance of better health?
Should people with apotemnophilia surgically "corrected"?
And a study with 55 subjects isn't much of a proof.
>It's valid.
What is valid?
>they deserve love.
I think so too. They are so pathetic, that their suicide rates would be very high without our acceptance.

>>7225525
You're... literally not accepting science AND first-hand experience.

I wasn't aware surgery mutilated body parts.

>>7225525
This just in. Surgery for any medical reason is automatically self harm.

>>7225240
>>7225263
brb KMSing

>>7225550
I haven't criticized the claim that their psychological health can be better after sex reassignment.
>I wasn't aware surgery mutilated body parts.
Any surgery disrupts normal physiological function of involved tissue. The sex reassignment is just breaking it into pieces and stuffing it inside. That just plain mutilation.
>>7225575
No, it's self-harm if it's done for a psychological reason, not for correction of pathological processes in the body. And surgery is done when benefits of an operation for physiological health outweigh damages.

>>7225575
Destroying functional organs for no reason....other than aesthetics

Actually, I have mixed feeling about my comments. I hope I hurt the trannies and it made me feel better, but I don't hate them. Rather completely indifferent. Also, those faggots can claim more "heterosexual" fags for themselves. Fuck that.
Well, I'm sorry, I was in the mood when hurting somebody becomes a joy. I'm a vile person, I know.

>>7225775
Loser

>>7225788
Shush. At least, I haven't lost my genitalia.

>>7225830
Neither have I.

>>7225343
>>7225368
>>7225381
>>7225388
This is an excellent example of how "common sense" is so dangerous. People who have no scientific background find that the scientific consensus doesn't make sense to them, and rather than delving deeper to try to understand the actual complexities, they immediately dismiss it as being some sort of political agenda.

>>7225411
>Some people are so insane, that they just want their legs cut off. Should medicine engage in satisfaction of their crazy desires? After all, they can become happy, once the legs are absent.
If that's the best treatment available, then yes.

>No, I don't think so. The proper treatment is medication to fix their brains, not their body image.
Unfortunately our brain science is still very limited at this point. Transgenderism is something that we really don't have the ability to fix by treating the brain at this point. A 40% lifetime suicide attempt rate may sound bad, but it's far preferable to a brain surgery that has a 5% chance of killing you and a 1% chance of actually curing your gender dysphoria.

>If you were born as a man, you'll die as a man.
Literally no one is "born a man". At most, you're born a baby boy. And "dying as a man" is irrelevant, if someone is physically female, and seen socially as such, I'd say that matters far more than some invisible chromosomes.

>>7225525
>Would making a person sterile by destroying their genitalia not qualify as hurting him?
Considering they hate their genitalia too much to ever reproduce in the first place, then no.

>Should people with apotemnophilia surgically "corrected"?
If that's the best treatment option, then yes.

>And a study with 55 subjects isn't much of a proof.
It's more of a proof than no study at all.

>>7225635
>No, it's self-harm if it's done for a psychological reason, not for correction of pathological processes in the body. And surgery is done when benefits of an operation for physiological health outweigh damages.
Psychological vs physiological isn't the issue here, the issue is that while the problem be psychological in origin, there really isn't anything that can be done to eliminate it through psychological means.

>>7225659
It's not for aesthetics, it's to improve mental health. And there really isn't much point in calling them "functional" when the only function they're capable of performing is making you want to kill yourself.

>>7226037
your mental health is the problem though...

>>7226037
Well put.

>>7226065
Transitioning IS the treatment for dysphoria.

>>7226065
Fixing the problem directly isn't really plausible with the technology we have now, so instead the best option is to compensate through gender transition.

>>7226023
>scientific consensus
There is no consensus. It's a controversial and unresearched topic. You just look only for information supporting your point of view and start assuming that there is a consensus. Actually, you should read not only abstracts, but also content with particular attention to authors' apologetics, if you want to find out whether authors think there is a consensus.
>If that's the best treatment available, then yes.
I think that's unreasonable. The best treatment option is to put the person into an asylum for the rest of his life. He can't kill himself and his doctors don't have to harm him.
Though, health includes both well-being and physical health, physical heath must be prioritized.
>physically female
Sex reassignment changes neither primary, nor secondary (because those things aren't actual sex organs) sex characteristics. It's just a mutilated male in the end.
Also, it doesn't change chromosomal sex, as you've noted. But it's not as elusive, as you think. A keen eye can distinguish the male and female phenotypes easily. That's exactly thanks to the contents of the chromosomes. It gets more complex because early hormonal suppression can be used, so some apparent characteristics can disappear.
>you're born a baby boy
Which is a man... Male more properly.
>Considering they hate their genitalia too much to ever reproduce in the first place, then no
How would a physician know they hate them so much? And would it matter at all because the function of the organs is determined by evolution, not by people's whims?
>It's more of a proof than no study at all.
But it's not enough.
>>7226037
It is an issue here, because the physiological norm is somewhat abstract but is still defined and significant its violation is called 'disease'. Inflicting disease upon patients is unethical.
Why should doctors prevent patients' suicide, may I ask? Death is just another irreversible pathological state. Why not grant them "fulfillment"?

Trannies should be all institutionalized

>>7226406
Yeah, instead of letting people take hormones and become happy, functional, productive members of society we should pay to have them locked up in the loony bins

>>7226406
>There is no consensus. It's a controversial and unresearched topic.
Do you mean gender transition of children, or gender transition in general?

>You just look only for information supporting your point of view and start assuming that there is a consensus. Actually, you should read not only abstracts, but also content with particular attention to authors' apologetics, if you want to find out whether authors think there is a consensus.
I've seen studies arguing against gender transition, but pretty much all but one that I've seen has massive flaws.

>I think that's unreasonable. The best treatment option is to put the person into an asylum for the rest of his life.
How exactly is that an improvement? That basically gives a zero percent chance of being a productive member of society, compared to the far better than 50 percent chance they get with gender transition?

>Sex reassignment changes neither primary, nor secondary (because those things aren't actual sex organs) sex characteristics. It's just a mutilated male in the end.
It changes the physical form of the body. Calling them "a mutilated male" is equivalent to calling a wooden table "a mutilated tree".

>Which is a man... Male more properly.
Male, yes, "a man", no.

>How would a physician know they hate them so much?
Based on the patient's responses.

>And would it matter at all because the function of the organs is determined by evolution, not by people's whims?
The same biological process that gave them those genitals is also responsible for making them want to kill themselves rather than reproducing. If genitals are somehow "sacred" because of evolution, so is gender identity. And no, evolution is not a god to be worshipped, as you seem to be doing. People's whims DO determine what they are willing to do with their genitals, it's not like your genitals are going to some day get up and walk away to reproduce without you.

>But it's not enough.
What would be enough?

>>7226406
>It is an issue here, because the physiological norm is somewhat abstract but is still defined and significant its violation is called 'disease'. Inflicting disease upon patients is unethical.
Mental illness is also a disease. If inflicting "disease" does more harm than good, it is the best option.

>Why should doctors prevent patients' suicide, may I ask? Death is just another irreversible pathological state. Why not grant them "fulfillment"?
For one, suicide guarantees you won't become a productive member of society. That is not true of gender transition. And, if a patient was pretty much guaranteed to spend the rest of their life in constant agonizing pain, then I would consider suicide to be the best option in that case.

>>7226465
Why? In what way would that be more beneficial than the current treatment?

>>7226591
>Why? In what way would that be more beneficial than the current treatment?
Wouldn't that preserve their sexual function and reproductive abilities?

>>7226963
Also the rest of us wouldn't have to interact with them.

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>>7225202
>nicoleposting
interesting choice
at any rate, it's a meme that it causes health risks, but there isn't enough research yet on childhood desistance rates (especially given that depending on how you define 'desisting' you get shit varying from 25% to 95%) to approve of EARLY childhood transition unconditionally
late childhood transition, around age 10-13, is the best choice

I would give anything to have been able to transition at 14. Anything.

>>7225411
Pence pls we don't qant you here

>>7226963
What if I look like a girl but keep my peepee

>>7226504
I didn't say that. I believe, it should be the case for a person who wants to cut his leg off.
>>7226577
>gender transition of children
But existence of a consensus is generally hard to determine, unless a reputable medical commission issues a clear statement.
>all but one that I've seen has massive flaws.
I'm not committed to my current position and I'm rather untaught about the subject, so let's say it's true. And let's assume you read enough of research papers. Can you refer me to the statement above?
>a productive member of society,
Oh, yes. There is that ugly part in the definition of mental health.
Then the question about the definition of productivity arises. Reproduction is a kind of productivity of a member of society, for example.
Another point, that I've made already, states that physical heath subsumes other types of health and well-being. (Not unreasonable.)
The improvement is, therefore, that they are physically healthy.
>It changes the physical form of the body.
But the result is far from female genitalia.
>a mutilated tree
No, it's more like I ask you to show a Christmas tree, but you display an oak with each leaf cut by scissors to resemble a needle. You also believe that it's somehow related to a Christmas tree, when it's just a mutilated oak.
>patient's responses.
That's a general problem in psychiatry: You have difficulty differentiating between symptoms and people's opinions.
>same biological process
Let's be more precise and say, likely, there was no selection in this direction.
What biological process, then?
>gender identity
Identities are mental constructs. You are comparing them with actual organs. It's not the question what's "sacred", more like what's "real".
>evolution is not a god
No worshiping. I just define the heath of elements of an organism by their function in the context of evolution.
>what they are willing to do
Question is what's medicine thinks about it.
>What would be enough?
N>300 or longitudinal.

>>7225226

Basically this.

Also, HRT is just replacing your masculine hormonal system by a feminine one through external implementation of testosterone blockers (many of them used for life not only in humans, and besides infertility, pretty inocuous) and estrogens.

doing it when puberty starts means that the body can get used to them from the beginning, without having to make a traumatic shift from tetosterone to the HRT, which in turn means many less complications.

Also, the advantages of NOT BEING A HON are super fucking healthy.

Want to live with chronic depression and regret?

Do you think that the loneliness that arises from being a socially despised hon don't have effets on health?

What about being able to find a job with which to fund a life that allows you to pay your medical bills and have all other needs covered?

Health is a more than just "cells and hormones". Health is a byproduct of your life and your lifestyle. And being passable and stealth is one of the best things you can do if you want a happy, prosperous life.

>>7226097
it is if you get proper consoling, figure out WHY you feel that way, address it, and learn to resist / reject those feelings, and replace them with natural feelings