hey anons, this might seem out of place but I wasn't way

>>7128458
What?

TERFs are feminists.
You can't read up on feminism and suddenly be able to exclude TERFs from feminism.

TERFism is really the biggest part of feminism, feminism had never been as popular and as influential as it was during the TERF era.

>>7128458
don't bother refuting them they'll just turn nasty and call you a man

>>7128458
TERFs and SWEFs (like me!!!) are huge in feminism. You can't 'refute' us. It's like saying "I need to read the Bible so I can refute Christianity." They're synonymous.

You are a male-bodied individual. You are not female-bodied. You were raised as a male. You are not, and never will be, a woman. You can be a male ally, though.

>>7128479
TERFs are excluded by almost all mainstream feminism now.

>>7128523
By liberal feminism and corporate feminism, sure.

So TERFS hate trans people? So they consider a trans mtf to just be a very feminine male trying to pass as a female? not op btw

>>7128528
even other radical feminists fucking despise terfs. i'm a commie and a feminist and all commie feminists i know (including myself) sincerely hope they'd all fall off the face of the planet.
to OP, i'd recommend here: http://theterfs.com/resources/deconstructing-terf-tropes/ (and the rest of this website in general, but especially this page). and while it isn't explicitly talking about TERFs, "the whipping girl", by Serano talks about transphobia and its connection to sexism.

>>7128545
TERFs don't hate trans people. Google "terf survey" for TERF attitudes towards trans people. You can see plainly that the majority of self-labelled TERFs are anti-harrasment.

Yes, a TERF would regard an MtF as a very feminine man, not a "woman in a man's body".

TERFs aren't feminists, they just want women to follow their rules instead of patriarchy's.

>>7128558
>even other radical feminists fucking despise terfs.

uh-huh. That's why TERF communities are growing online. It's not politically acceptable to disagree with the transtrenders, but more and more people are reaching "Peak Trans" and can't stand it anymore.

> i'm a commie and a feminist and all commie feminists i know (including myself) sincerely hope they'd all fall off the face of the planet.
LOL You're a fake communist and a fake feminist. You hipster trash think you're in control because you're all cry-bullies, but sooo many of your liberal friends come sneaking into TERF communities on their alts.

The more hysterical people get about TERFs, the harder I laugh. Everyone hates women who value women.

File: NothingCool.jpg (66KB, 980x490px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 980x490px

>>7128528
My cis feminist friends moan and complain about "TERFs" way more than I do, and they are all anti-capitalist and use "liberal" as an insult. This is the IRL landscape now. One guy in our friend group was really into DGR, and came out as having TERF views. He literally lost his cis girlfriend over it, and was ghosted by most of the people who used to think he was cool. There's nothing cool about being a TERF my friend, if you start going off on how transbians are invading female spaces, everyone will just look at you like you're crazy.

And honestly, I've never met a cis feminist in person, at least not a cis woman feminist, who was actually a TERF. They seem to be mostly relegated to the Internet, just like the really bad SJWs. Maybe because they were ghosted and excluded by their IRL communities.

None of this says that TERFism isn't valid, but it's certainly not mainstream or popular anymore.

>>7128528
Untrue. Im a commie feminist and Terfs are considered reactionary, similar to liberal feminism.

>>7128689
>commie feminist

You and your kind should die and stop polluting the trans community with filth

You gotta thank TERFs really, they found a way to make transphobia unpopular

>>7128706
>FTM
love how you'd attack a trans girl before you'd ever attack a TERF

>>7128718
Just because someones a tranny doesn't mean I'm not going to criticize them
TERFs are retarded but I dont give a fuck because they're barely relevant. Trannies give these dykes way too much attention.

>>7128706
Im dissapointed in you cal, i kinda liked you.

>>7128744
You didnt really criticize me at all though, you just pointed out your opinion of me. If you had a well thought out and researched position on the philosophical underpinnings of Marxism Leninism, now that would be criticism, and i would be interested to read that article.

>>7128517
this is why you don't bother, TERF's are mental ill. That is why they are hated by some many people.

>>7128479
>>7128517
This tbqh.
TERF is the real feminism, in the sense of the original and coherent ideology. What's popular in the media and among regular people is a watered down feminism obviously, but it's always been like that, back in the day you didn't see a lot of women citing Shulamith Firestone or Carol Hanisch either, just a lot of I HAVE A RIGHT TO BETTER SHIT and YEAH, WE RULE.

Both of which happened to be true, but you see the problem: there wasn't any full understanding of theory. It's okay for the oppressed to demand what they're owed and for the downtrodden to gain sudden confidence, in fact it's great, but it's nothing like a comprehensive assault on the whole system. Instead such events acted to ultimately preserve the system by relieving the pressure of discontent on it.

>>7128935
>Sex essentialism
>Coherent understanding of anything

:^)

>>7128910
>TERF's are mental ill
>But trannies are not mentally ill
This kind of self-justifying contortion is exactly the sort of thing that drives people TO TERF, I hope you realize that. You seem to think mental illness is nothing but a slur, devoid of any real conceptual content. This is obviously not rigorous, and it's also disrespectful of people suffering mental unhealth, as well as frivolously dismissive -- none of which is impressive.

You're far better represented by those trannies who at least are willing to admit it's a mental health issue. People can respect that, because it doesn't hide from an uncomfortable reality.

>>7128910
What was mentally ill about that post?

>feminism has infected the community on this board.
The poll was right, /lgbt/ has to go.

I'm not him.

There are some mental illnesses that should not be treated, but worked with. E.G. I haven't shared but I discovered a way to remold bones, someday I hope to share it whether for free or not so others can remold their skulls to whatever they like (i just need to make it safe for anyone to use) and I have changed my own skull and it looks much much much better. I'm on here reading about lgbt stuff and realize it could help someone who wants to be more fem or masc looking, or more beautiful in general.

If I didn't have diagnosed AUTISM, social anxiety, depression / suicidal thoughts and psychosis... I probably would've never researched it.

But enough bragging, trans people (or feminine men / masculine females according to TERFS) don't need to change their minds, they need to change the world around them including their bodies.

>>7128870
>liking me in the first place
Mistake

>>7128458
Why not just ditch feminism altogether?

>>7128988
"Trans is a mental health issue" does not necessarily imply "MtFs are not real women". There are valid criticisms of transgender identity, the problem is that you guys take it way too far. If you go on gendercritical, it really does seem like the people there are "redpilled" to the point of living in their own delusional reality where no trans woman can ever truly pass, early transitioners and FtMs do not exist, all cis women are socialized the exact same way, performing femininity means that you are upholding the patriarchy (no wonder so many of them are SWERFs), and the transbians are out to rape their women.

>>7128689
>>7128870
>>7128879
>opinion of a tripfag
>relevant
Kill yourself, sir.

>>7129086
It does actually imply that.

A man with a mental disorder, making him deludedly think he's a woman, isn't a woman.

Transsexualism is a neurological issue, which means it's not a mental health issue.

>>7128458
Feminism spreads a lot of lies, including rape rates (they claim 1 in 5 women get raped; it's much lower than that) and the wage gap (women choose different jobs and take more time off than men; the difference is not due to sexism, and it's already been illegal to pay women less for over 50 years). I would recommend YouTubers TL;DR and Vernaculis--both of them absolute tear into feminist points. TL;DR uses scientific scrutiny while Vernaculis primarily relies on logic.

If you look deeper into the feminist worldview, it all starts to break down. The "patriarchy" has no evidence for it, and in fact most western cultures lean towards gynocentrism. Feminism continues despite having no tangible goals. Feminists continue to claim that women are the disadvantaged gender, when women have more legal rights than men and consistently have a higher quality of life and lower suicide rates.

The problem with TERFs is that they think gender and gender roles are the same thing, which they aren't. Explain Gender Dysphoria to them, and the biological basis for gender identity (I can get you loads of info on that, if you want). If they still refuse to understand, then give up on them because they're too retarded to understand any reason.

>>7129086
Understandable misunderstanding, but I'm (>>7128988) not a TERF, just a lesbian. I'm just trying to warn you that that kind of angry shitloss makes them look good by comparison. And I see it more and more often on the tranny flank.

>>7129101
>Transsexualism is a neurological issue, which means it's not a mental health issue.
This is wrong. Schizophrenia and body dysmorphia are also neurological, but very much mental health issues. You can find dozens of examples of the same kind.

You also seem to believe that something being a neurological issue precludes it from being a delusion, which if you consider paranoid schizophrenia you can easily see is totally false.

File: smaug.jpg (9KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 225x225px

>>7128689
>commie funfem
Yeah, I bet you are exclusively into women and fuck them with your "girlstick."

File: 51VtUF7Yc8L._SX372_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg (54KB, 374x499px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 374x499px

>>7128458
>recommendations for feminist text

>>7129121
But trans isn't a delusion. The only people who think that are not-too-bright right wingers who don't understand mental health issues.

Gender Dysphoria is basically like depression, mixed with BIID. Trans people are not deluded into thinking anything (unless you count phantom limbs you know aren't real as a delusion).

And all of this ignores trans people who don't have dysphoria. They are completely neurotypical.

>>7129101
I agree with you, in fact I would actually go one step further and imply that it might be more of a congenital birth defect, but you're right that it's not actually a "mental health" issue. I was just trying to argue from that point of view.

>>7129112
Ah okay. I agree that it's not exactly responsible to simply dismiss TERFs and label them as mentally ill.

>>7129125
Mistaken assumption that you have no basis for making.

>>7129111
>the biological basis for gender identity (I can get you loads of info on that, if you want)
I'd be interested in this

File: image.jpg (141KB, 1080x1080px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 1080x1080px

soooo noone has actual recommendations or has read any feminist literature or critical theory? I'm disapointed tbqh /lgbt/

Ignore TERFs.
Ignore modern first world feminists in general.

File: crying.jpg (117KB, 540x307px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 540x307px

>>7129261
They're trying to spare you from reading garbage. It's a service to you.

>>7129240
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564--"Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus"

http://www.tgmeds.org.uk/a-sex-difference-in-the-human-brain-and-its-relation-to-transsexuality.html--"A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation toTranssexuality"

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/19751389--"Neuroimaging differences in spatial cognition between men and male-to-female transsexuals before and during hormone therapy."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022395610001585--"White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study"

And these are just a few. A quick Google search returns more articles, but these are some actual studies straight from the sources. Others can feel free to add on if they want to.

>>7128458
All feminist theory can be summed up like this.
1. Women and men are two classes
2. Women as a class are oppressed by men as a class
3. This is demonstrable in socioeconomic analysis
4. To combat this women as a class have to be liberated from men as a class

For recommendations the one thing that comes to mind is Beauvoirs Second Sex

File: back to sleep.jpg (90KB, 540x521px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 540x521px

>>7129334
thanks anon, I'll check out the Beauvoirs book, everything you said rings true with the little I know, I just want a more indepth understanding.

>>7129347
I mean I personally think all of those points are fallacious at best, but knock yourself out.

>>7128458
You don't need to justify them with your attention. Just ignore them.

If they press the issue, carry a can of mace.

>>7128879
Adding Leninism to Marxism just makes it edgier, at least be a leftcom ffs, their ideology has a tiny bit of merit.

>>7128585
TERF communities are growing online the same way White Nationalist communities are growing online. Which should tell you something.

>>7129334
>This is demonstrable in socioeconomic analysis
No it's not. There is no evidence for this that can't be refuted easily.

>>7129375
It doesnt, leftcomms exist only on the internet. And they usually dont really know their marxism, with the handful of exceptions that are Bordigist nutcases.

>>7128517
It's more like reading the bible so you can refute the Westboro Babtists.

Though, in either case, probably not going to do much good. They already made up their mind; they don't want to have a discussion.

Originally feminism was about giving women the opportunity to work and earn a livable wage so that they could, if they needed to, live independently from a man long enough to not starve to death. This was during an age when women had no rights, and were essentially property of their father and then later their husband. If their husband was an abusive jerkoff they had no recourse because they depended on him completely for survival. Women won the privilege to work, for mostly equal wages, so that they could support themselves temporarily when needed. They also won the right to vote so that they could protect themselves from ever losing the other right.
The goals of feminism were completed 100 years ago and anything calling itself feminism now is something way different.
It's female supremacy. Read The Manipulated Male to be redpilled on it. Feminism now is about co-opting male privilege, while also maintaining and strengthening female privilege, while also dodging any of the shit parts about masculinity such as the draft etc. Feminists have weaponized femininity to enchant and enslave males, so TERFs are exclusionary because anything born with a penis is a farm animal to them, a resource to be exploited completely while they live like free-wheeling queens. You wouldn't want your donkeys getting out of the field and gaining access to your guns right, you want them to be ugly and stupid and keep plowing the crops hoping for a reward from their glorious beautiful human masters.
Once you realize the true dark agenda of modern feminism, you can't argue with it. There's no point.

>>7131370
>The goals of feminism were completed 100 years ago
Outside of this bit, this is pretty spot on.

It's completely laughable whenever a feminist claims they're purely for equal rights or for solving male issues. Anytime there's a discussion about male issues they feel they need to completely dominate the dialogue then make it about women; but if they're denied that they go ballistic and try to shut down the topic.

>>7129588
I never said I agree with it, I don't. But that is feminist theory in a nutshell.

>>7131523
ahh ok.

File: 1472683338038.jpg (69KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 600x600px

>>7131370
this. the problem as well is that women for some reason really like to have men do stuff for them and protect them, but that was part of why men also had more control previously. having men do stuff for women but giving them very little control of anything is unnatural. but this is the goal of current feminism.

>>7133347
>women for some reason really like to have men do stuff for them and protect them
Females are drawn to a mate that is able to provide and protect both her and her offspring.