Hello /lgbt/ Straight guy has a question. I'm 100% for LGBT

>>7024283
>Find a hole in my logic
It's 2016, politics are fucking retarded and so is everyone who wants special treatment. In other news, the sky is blue, Islam is inherently violent, the US can claim ownership of yet undiscovered extraterrestrial minerals.

>>7024283
You're perfectly right. I hate LGBT politics for their entitlement even though I'm LGBT myself. It should also be ok to fire people for any reason, gay marriage should be reversed and insurance shouldn't be required to cover transitioning.

>>7024283
The problem is in smaller towns people may not have another option and minority populations (like trans people) can be refused business and have a minimal impact on their business, in fact in some areas a store holding a bigoted policy can maybe even improve sales, not Chik-Fil-A in 2012 when it was discovered that they were supporting conversion therapist and anti-LGBT institutions.

On paper the idea sounds nice but all the bill proposes to do is make life harder for LGBT people and doesn't really improve the lives of people who want to be assholes to gay people.

So I feel like the law doesn't have any real merit other than as a fuck you to LGBT people.

>>7024463
It shouldn't be illegal to be an asshole, asshole.

>>7024474
It's less about being an asshole and how systematic/widespread assholery prevents people from participating in society.

>>7024480
I live in the bible belt. When ssm was being decided there were employees at a local grocery store chanting kill they fags, hang the queers. I tried to talk to a manager about it saying that it could make people unconfortable. The manager said " I don't give a damn, you can get out". There are plenty of places in this country that would force any kind of minority out if they could. I have also encountered people in my town saying that this is a christian nation and non christians are guilty of treason.

>>7024497
Why anyone in the queer community would live in one of those places is beyond me.
Get out of there and let those places rot away

>>7024480
>>7024497
Move somewhere else? Christian fundamentalists don't like it in gay districts either. Each to his/her/xir own.

>>7024511
Moving isn't always an option, especially when you can't get a decent job so you can afford to make a move

>>7024283

if a business is going to serve the public, in the public sphere they need to serve everyone in the public.

if you only want to cater to certain people, then do it. but don't advertise in the public sphere, and don't have a publicly accessible store front.

discrimination prevents society from working properly.

>>7024283
I agree with this

When is Rand Paul gonna be President? Is 2020 the year?

>>7024283
Not american but I can see why this could be a problem in america.
Most of your health services are private right? What happens if clinics refuse to service you?
It's not about baking cakes, it's about everything, considering how your country still has a lot of obscurantism in places.
The law is indeed needed to prevent people from refusing business they would grant to other customers based on racial origins or sexual orientation. If a business is to refuse someone they must either have valid reasons (ie, you don't get served if you don't have a shirt) or work by contracting.

>>7024529
That's not how markets work in a free society.
A business does not exist to serve the public, it exists to serve the owner of the business.
The government exists to serve the public with things like roads, fire departments, etc.
A business is privately owned, and if the owner wants to damage his own profits by being a dick, let him.

>>7024544
> What happens if clinics refuse to service you?

a bunch of liberals burn the place down

>>7024544
Yeah, that won't happen.
There isn't a hospital in this country that would deny service to someone based on thinks like race and sexual orientation.

>>7024552
This

>>7024510

it is often not that easy to leave because of financial and family reasons.

i have to care for my elderly mother who is sick with dementia.

i would rather live in a city but i wouldn't be able to care for her and afford to live there at the same time.

>>7024552
>>7024562
there isn't but there could
you have entire states where lgbt are frowned upon a lot more than elsewere.

>>7024525
Deal with it? The law shouldn't be based on "whatever's best for some random person who doesn't want to move's feelings"

>>7024575
And you have states where they're loved and where christians would get frowned upon instead. Don't force your views on everybody. Embrace diversity.

>>7024283
>Straight guy has a question.
>I'm 100% for LGBT rights. The fact that it's taken this long for humans to be treated like humans is fucking awful

No one cares, go back to /b/

>>7024589
If you like that kind of "diversity" so much why are your states still federated?
Seems like they could improve by becoming independant, so one state could ban all christians from medical services while another does the same for gays.
Embracing diversity means, having some laws to defend groups of people. That way there can be gays anywhere in the US, even if they're hated in the area. Doesn't mean, there needs to beeither.

>>7024571
>>7024575
Being openly queer in a crazy christian town is like being openly human in a shark tank
Get the fuck out, if you stay and get eaten, it's your fault

>>7024626
There can be gays anywhere in the US, retard. The issue is whether we have laws pandering to them and oppressing the rights of everyone everywhere.

>>7024645
>making sure every citizen has acess to the bare minimum to live
>pandering to gays and oppressing the rights of everyone
you're embarassing yourself

>>7024657
Repeating yourself doesn't make the entitlements you demand any more necessary for your survival. Get over yourself.

>>7024643
Sharks don't eat humans you dumb cuck. The only reason shark attacks happen is because their vision is shit and they mistake fatasses for seals and dolphins.

>>7024663
A state's function is to ensure basic rights and safety to its citizens.
If a state doesn't have theses as objectives, your citizen status is no more than serfdom.

>>7024689
The state hasn't taken away those rights (yet)
The FADA is the government trying to intervene in the free market
Government and the free market should be completely fucking separate.
Making sure a couple gets a wedding cake is not the fucking government's job.

>>7024645
>pandering
>>7024663
>entitlements

ensuring that everyone has equal access to services is not pandering or entitlements. it is civilization.

treating people like shit because you don't like them is barbaric.

>>7024697
Everyone has equal access to services. That's why we have a free market.
There isn't ONE STORE for everything. There's tons of stores for everything. If you can't get something here, you can get something there.

>>7024283
i think the problem is the fact that it has nothing to do with what the product is. the only difference between a cake for a gay or straight marriage is the topper, which they could have simply left up to them to add. but instead they were refused business, and "just go somewhere else" is so unfair and unjust (and also not always an option).

if it was a pastor that refused to conduct the service? or a church that doesnt want them, or a photographer, or any of the other jobs that would be closely involved with the actual event, then you have every right to decline imo.

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>>7024283
We already decided in the 60s that you couldn't be turned away from a business based on the color of your skin.

This is no different. The lgbt community needs the same civil rights protections as other minorities.

If you want to talk about how we should go back to even before separate but equal, be my guest.

>>7024867
I think in a free society, you should be allowed to discriminate.
I don't agree with discrimination, but you should be free to do as you please. If people are willing to suffer the consequences of being bigots, just fucking let them.

>>7024888
I think it should be legal for people like me to kill people like you.

Can we both have what we want? Because I'd be okay with that. :)

>>7024888
And that's your opinion. And there's some value to it, but I haven't really mewled it over too much yet.

But don't take christian bakers outside of the context of civil rights to this point, there's an immense amount of precedent, and religion has been used as an argument against serving certain groups in the US in the past. This really isn't any different than civil rights of the 60s, and you have to enter this knowing that in a way it is not at all a new issue, it's just been framed differently.

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>>7024904
Look up the Non Aggression Principle

>>7024929
Would it be an attempt to trick me into thinking Nazi Christians shouldn't be skinned? Because I probably wouldn't fall for any trick like that. Just saying.

>>7024943
No one owes anyone anything except their non aggression.
Victim-less crimes aren't crimes

>>7024968
I don't owe any Christian anything, including their life.
Christians brainwashing the world into murdering gays is not a victimless crime.

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>>7024991
Well, muslims are the ones actually MURDERING gays

>>7025028
That's your trump card for convincing me you deserve to live?

>>7025036
I'm not even christian.
I'm Hindu
I just don't want the government forcing anyone to do anything.

>>7025047
You're Christian.
And the government forcing gay people to die is exactly what you want to have happen.

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>>7025053
Honestly can't tell if serious or not

Part of living in an organised society means making sacrifices. You have to pay taxes on what you earn, and you have to serve people you might not approve of, deal with it. Having your own business doesn't make you king of your little scrap of land, it makes you a cog in society's machine and you need to function in a certain way for that to work.
The only reason you can even have a business is because society allows it, and there are certain standards you have to adhere to in order for it to be legal. One of these many standards is that you can't discriminate.

That said, it depends entirely on the service. Eg, I think it's bullshit that eHarmony was forced to cater to gay couples, because the service being provided was a het dating service and accomodating gays changes the service. But selling a cake to a man vs a woman does not change the service.

>>7024888
>but you should be free to do as you please
Not when it infringes on another's vilify to do as they please. People have the right to believe and say whatever they want, but when it comes to acting on those beliefs, it gets way more complicated. This kind of situation especially, since either way, someone has to yield.

>>7025357
you can make the same argument that part of being in society is making children and raising them in a family of both a mom and a dad

if you actually put responsibility in individuals to have a good society, you go down a rabbit hole that basically says that nobody who's in any way weird should live their lives the way they want to

>>7026400

No you can't.
A business requires a society to succeed. Love and reproduction don't. A hermit in the mountains can have a family, but having a business is simply
impossible.

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>>7024283
>Straight guy has a question.
DENIED

>>7024283
it depends
what businesses get exceptions? if none, what if the only hospital in an x mile radius refuses service for some group of people? this is acceptable?
what about grocery stores?

>>7024697
Oppressing people just because they hate us is what's barbaric.

>>7024689
Basic rights like freedom of association. The right to having other people forced to do what I want isn't a basic right. It's slavery. You racist.

>letting your opinions affect your business
>being this much a traitor to capitalism
These bakers shouldn't be sued, the should be burned at the stake for being disgusting marxist scum.

>>7024283
>Once everyone knows that the bakery is owned by bigots, no one will buy from them, and then they will be faced with the choice of closing or being accepting.

Like chick-fil-a? Remember how they disappeared immediately after the homophobia scandal?

>>7027035
this
you can't deny people stuff (be it cake or medical care) based on shitty random reasons (muh christian beliefs for instance)
then again, the US is so fucked up you basically deny people health care based on if they have money or not. so the FADA would probably just be an extension of that

>>7027624
>The right to having other people forced to do what I want isn't a basic right. It's slavery.
Where did you read me imply I want to force people to do what I want?
>You racist.
what?