/agpg/ - AGP General

>No replies
Fixing that. The more this hell of a fetish goes on the more dysphoric I feel and I hate it

>>6935799
then take hormones and hate yourself the same but look cuter

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>tfw your suggestion was overturned
I must seize the means of thread production..

Also I still contend that this image is basially AGP.jpg

What's the difference between AGP and AAP?

>>6935923
AGP is cross-gender arousal at the thought of yourself as a woman and/OR as someone engaging in stereotypical feminity.
AAP is cross-gender arousal at the thought of yourself as a man and/OR as someone engaging in stereotypical masculinity.

>>6935953
oh

someone called me AAP and I was like wtf because I don't get arousal from being trans

>>6935960
The terms are commonly used as insults intended to delegitimize transsexuals. Don't take it to heart. The reason they are invoked so often is that there are actually a lot of people who both experience dysphoria and experience this sort of arousal, though most cease to do so after transitioning. Why this is so is not known.

Either way we're pretty much the lepers of the LGBT community because we're equated with cis people who experience the same fetish but no dysphoria. TERFs misinterpret our condition and use it as ammo. The LGBT community often denies we exist. It's nice.

>>6934679
>ywn look like her ever ever
JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP FA᠎M

>>6935854
If I hate myself the same where the hell is the improvement and what is even the point

>>6934679
>>6934679
>>6934679
>>6934679
>When you project your sexual feelings onto a lady and imagine yourself as her in a sexual encounter so you're able to get off on it
Anyone else know this feel?
How about...
>When you're AGP as fuck so you don't realize you're trans, but then you start HRT and you stop being AGP and just like being cute to be cute and attract boys

>>6935799
>>6935988
I think I know which poster you are, but I'll ask anyway: have you tried seeing a therapist? They can potentially help you with this shit. If you experience actual dysphoria and dysphoria has a biological basis as some people suspect you probably won't feel better until you're on the skittles. On the other hand if you're not trans and this is just a highly distressing fetish then therapy is exactly the cure. You win either way.

>>6935977
I mean I get that, but it caught me off guard since I only knew what AGP meant.
The comment was directed at me since I'm a ftm dude that likes dudes.

>>6936014
>I'm a ftm dude that likes dudes.
A A P
A
P

>>6935998
I can't seek therapy because of my family. My mother suffers from heavy anxiety and if she thinks anything is wrong with her son (or god forbid daughter. Fuck typing daughter made me blush a little fuck.) then she'll go into a full blown panic mode. If my father, who manages my insurance, catches wind he'll cut me off.

I just wish this could all go away and I can go back to being my normal not freaking out about gender self.

>>6936014
There's an old, old argument that any transsexual not attracted exclusively to their natal sex is A*P. It was originally only applied to AGPs because the guy who made it didn't believe AAP existed because AFABs don't have fetishes (lol). Jerks are more equal opportunity now though.

>>6936020
Yeah the comment I got looked exactly like this lol
Before I transitioned I wasn't really sexual at all, and after HRT I figured out that I wasn't attracted to femininity and that vaginas also grossed me out. If it were the other way around and I found myself attracted to femininity and grossed out by other dudes dicks I don't think it'd be any different.

>>6936025
I'm sorry. I can't pretend to know what it would take to make things work out for you but please, please try to think of a way to go and see a therapist. The alternative is to do a LOT of research and rely on self-reflection but that can only work if you truly open your mind to every possibility. Sharing your current thoughts with the rest of us (or, and I hate to say this, ideally with a better and more supportive community) could also help.

>>6936045
I mean the argument could also be made that trans people attracted to the opposite gender are just closeted gay/lesbians who would rather live a "straight" lifestyle.

>>6936068
spoiler: that's a bad argument chummer

>>6936068
not a*p but jumping in here anyway
that was actually the other half of the dichotomy bailey and blanchard proposed, that all mtfs are either 'homosexual' or 'autogynephilic' (and that all ftms are 'homosexual')
while the taxonomy is not-completely-terrible if you completely divorce it from the bailey-blanchard-lawrence context and modify the hell out of it, it was not the proudest moment in trans history

>>6936053
I'd probably only share them here because I can be protected with the anonymous label.

Ever since I was 10 I've had AGP fantasies. 90% of my faps were to me as a girl. More my life goes on, the more the AGP tries to take over. I had a breakdown in 2013 that confirmed my parents wouldn't support me becoming a woman, but eventually the issues kinda went away. Now they're back in full force, trying to claim my sexual fantasies as my sexual identity and then my gender identity. Trying to change what I'm sexually attracted to when I know what I like.

I've never had sex which is another concerning factor (although I came close once). I don't know if I'll enjoy having sex with women because of how my fantasies always have me as a girl with men, and I don't want to experiment with men unless I identify as a girl because I'm not into dudes as a guy.

I suppose the sudden increase of free time that comes from graduating school would relate to the sudden increase of masturbation which could influence my mindset more. My fantasies are now less about having sex with men as a woman and more just coming out and transitioning into a woman (which later ends in having sex with men) and my thoughts are literally telling me "come on, come out, there's no need to pretend anymore) and shit like that when it's clearly those fantasies that are pretending to be me and it pisses me off because I was fine all these years I should be fine now

Sorry for the rant. I can go into more detail on things if you'd like.

>>6936075
Okay then they're gay/lesbians who fetishize the idea of being straight.

>>6936081
So what about people who want to transition but don't express any sexual desire one way or the other?

>>6936092
they were also accused of being a*p because apparently they were so fixated on their fantasy that they didn't feel attraction to others
like i said, not exactly the best taxonomy one could make of sex discordant experience

>>6936100
The concept of A*P feels off.
I get that some people fetishize the idea of being the other gender, through cross dressing and whatnot. That makes sense.

But whether you like guys or girls doesn't make a difference.
Example: MTF crossdresser that gets aroused from crossdressing, but is into men.

>>6936025
just say it's for an unrelated and normie disorder. if your therapist tells them what you talk about you can live your days on the lawsuitbux

>>6936128
Any disorder sets her into panic mode, and she just lost her mother and is still grieving over that so I really don't want to make her worry more. She's very unstable and I wish I could help.

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kill libido 2 live happy life

>>6936136
can you lie about where you are going?

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>>6936117
a*p is definitely real and definitely a common comorbidity of sex discordance, but the blanchardian concept of it being the inherent motivator of ANY non-straight trans person is ridiculous
by that logic, pic related is agp
'transkids' (the candice elliot brown term for a group similar to what blanchard calls 'hsts') have about the same skew of sexual orientation as the general population, but lgb people aren't exactly rare

>>6936166
My father handles my insurance.

>>6936172
he would cut you off for having anxiety or something?

>>6936081
>tfw the thread continually refuses my pleas to use some sort of a new, neutral name for AGP

>>6936173
I feel like shit for having to lie about what I would see someone for. I don't want to be a liar and I'm scared. I'm just scared.

>>6936179
AGP is neutral, blame trans elitists for slamming it down

>>6936179
yes pls I am in full support of this

>>6936179
you have the rest of the internet
please stop spamming

>>6936084
>I had a breakdown in 2013 that confirmed my parents wouldn't support me becoming a woman, but eventually the issues kinda went away.
Would you mind elaborating?

>Trying to change what I'm sexually attracted to when I know what I like.
I can't tell whether you're trans or not but it is a possibility. It sounds like you're trying to separate these fantasies from yourself when they've been part of you for years and are the dominant way in which you express your sexuality. Now there is of course a chance that this is just a very intense fetish but if it troubles you as it does, if you feel distressed by your gender even when you're not aroused, these are hints that you might be trans.

Were you tasked with trying to convince someone that you are cis, what would your arguments be? What evidence would you present? How about the opposite case? Forget what you'd like to believe. Take a step back and think in terms of a debate.

>Sorry for the rant.
We're here to listen to you rant, aren't we? No need to apologize.

>>6936183
>I feel like shit for having to lie about what I would see someone for. I don't want to be a liar and I'm scared. I'm just scared.
yes, being scared is normal...
your parents are the offenders here. it's like if they were threatening to kick you out for masturbating, and you had to lie to them about masturbating, are you in the wrong for lying or are they for being ridiculous? it's obvious your mother is suffering from some trauma, and your father is unaccepting (presumably of trans stuff). i think you have every right to lie to them for something like getting a therapist. if you had to go to the doctor to to treat an infection but they didn't want you to, would you still feel like you were wrong to lie to them about going to the doctor?

>>6936183
AGP is not neutral given its connection to the rest of Blanchard's theory. He wasn't even the first person to notice the phenomenon. Just the first to name it and attempt to explain it formally.

>>6936208
Maybe the rest of the internet has a point. I'm not trying to erase AGP, I'm trying to decouple it from the erroneous body of work surrounding it.

>>6936187
Anon please hold my hand and never let go.

>>6936211
>Elaborating
I had a friend come out to me online as MtF and it was such a shocker that someone actually came out as trans rather than just fetishize being a girl that I had a hard time going on and started thinking "well what if I'm actually a girl too?". Like I had known of transgender as a concept but never felt like a girl enough to give it some serious thought. Then I spent a long time thinking about it.

I actually did see a psyche because my mom demanded it but like after I talked to him about my gender issues I felt manlier. Then I realized she was talking to him about my gender issues and thought he violated confidentiality and never saw him again, even after realizing she learned on her own by reading my phone.

>Gender when not aroused
Thinking about my gender is very quickly followed up by arousal, unless it's stuff like here in which I approach it from a logical standpoint. When I feel more feminine I also feel more aroused, as if they were directly related.

>Argue you are cis
I feel as if my male personality is me. It has been the way I have been going about life and I have had no issues socializing as a guy. I can see myself way further into the future as a guy than as a girl, where I can only really see a few years at best. When not in fap mode I see mysef as a guy dating girls.

>Argue being trans
I enjoy the feminine persona I present to those who know about it as well as feminine things, and all of my sexual fantasies are of me as a girl and as of late, the desire to be a girl is growing and growing to the point where I've been analyzing myself in the mirror and wanting to be more feminine. I feel restricted and want to be free to express myself how I want, including as a girl. I don't know how I can see myself having sex with girls as a guy when I fantasize myself as a girl, and have even developed specific tastes in men under these fantasies.

I am running out of characters so thanks again for listening to my rants.

>>6936215
It's always different if it's physical...sure mental is brain chemicals but like they wouldn't understand that

>>6936232
i am saying that their understanding of it is flawed. that you need a mental doctor just as you would need a physical doctor, and their restriction of that is unreasonable. if you need to lie to them in order to get access to a mental doctor, i think you would be perfectly justified in doing so.

>tfw I'm honestly not sure what my sexual orientation is anymore

A year ago I would've told you that I was absolutely a straight guy who just got turned on by the thought of crossdressing that's all. Now even though I don't get aroused by just looking at men about 90% of my sexual fantasies are about being used and degraded by men.

I still get turned on by the thought of women dominating me too and I always have, but not nearly as much as when I think of men. I just want this to go away tbqh.

>>6936169
This.
AGP exists and I think it functions as a psychological coping mechanism for many trannies who are not on HRT yet. It occurs as a fetish in non-transsexual people, too, because crossdressers, transvestites etc. obviously exist.
The link between AGP and sexual orientation is bullshit, though. If you look into theories which promote this bs a little bit deeper you'll recognize that it is actually a - surprise - catholic thing going on against homosexuals in general.

>>6936233
I mean the possibility of being transgender scares me. I don't want to pursue an answer.

The Accelerated Graphics Port (often shortened to AGP) is a high-speed point-to-point channel for attaching a video card to a computer system, primarily to assist in the acceleration of 3D computer graphics. It was originally designed as a successor to PCI-type connections for video cards.

>>6938702
But you have to because this is not going to resolve by itself.

>>6938769
I just don't want to have to confront anybody about it. I'd rather keep it logical like by responding to my post here >>6936229 so I don't get pumped with fear and can discuss with reason how I feel.

>>6936532
you sound like what's known as a beta bitch fuckboi

basically, just a faggot

>>6938795
No one here is a professional Anon. We can try but we're not qualified to help you. Beside, you just said that one option scares you and you do not want to confront it.. does that not make you a bad judge of your own nature in this context? An impartial expert could help.

>>6938797
What was the point of being rude to that person?

>>6938831
If i don't want to confront something, that thing must be bad so the option is to shut it out, right?

It's not like a fear of the dark, it's something potentially permanently body altering and impactful of my relationships in life

>>6938847
>If i don't want to confront something, that thing must be bad so the option is to shut it out, right?
Uh.. no? It is a truth about yourself. Know thyself!

>It's not like a fear of the dark, it's something potentially permanently body altering and impactful of my relationships in life
Which is why you have to face it.

>>6938917
When it comes to something like this, I'd rather embrace a happy lie than a destructive truth. Besides, talking to pros doesn't help because I felt manlier after the one time I did

>>6938933
>I'd rather embrace a happy lie than a destructive truth.
That only works temporarily, and when you are forced to face it it's going to be worse than ever.

>>6938933
>When it comes to something like this, I'd rather embrace a happy lie than a destructive truth
What about this lie is happy if you're here having this discussion with me? Self-denial always ends poorly.

>Besides, talking to pros doesn't help because I felt manlier after the one time I did
You're searching for the truth, not one conclusion or the other. That you felt better is a good thing, not a sign that therapy does not work.

>>6938963
I'm having this discussion because I want to be happy. I probably should stop though because all it's doing is making me want to cry. I'm searching for the best truth, the one that makes me happy.

>>6938989
>I'm searching for the best truth
There is ONE TRUTH, Anon. Face it or live to regret it. What you do about the truth is still ultimately up to you but you must KNOW IT. To not know yourself is immensely dangerous. Closing your eyes won't make the problem go away.

I'm sorry if I've hurt you but you need to hear this. The road to happiness is not always easy but it is worthwhile.

>>6938989
>>6938933
>>6938847
>Denial – The first reaction is denial. In this stage individuals believe the diagnosis is somehow mistaken, and cling to a false, preferable reality. <------------------
>Anger – When the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue, they become frustrated, especially at proximate individuals. Certain psychological responses of a person undergoing this phase would be: "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; '"Who is to blame?"; "Why would this happen?".
>Bargaining – The third stage involves the hope that the individual can avoid a cause of grief. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek compromise.
>Depression – "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die soon, so what's the point?"; "I miss my loved one, why go on?"
During the fourth stage, the individual despairs at the recognition of their mortality. In this state, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time mournful and sullen.
>Acceptance – "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."
In this last stage, individuals embrace mortality or inevitable future, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. People dying may precede the survivors in this state, which typically comes with a calm, retrospective view for the individual, and a stable condition of emotions.

>>6938831
>No one here is a professional Anon. We can try but we're not qualified to help you.

Honestly might have to disagree with you there. People here are very versed in the concept of AGP, but I've never met or heard of a therapist who was.

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What do I do after transitioning and working through all my issues with AGP? I even have a boyfriend and everything now, so there isn't much left except for SRS.

It's like, I'm glad to be able to have finally sorted everything out, but at the same time I've kind of grown attached to everyone here and don't want to leave.

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Bimbofag here. What's the best way to find a rich sadist to make me their shemale barbie doll?

>>6940197
go and live your life

>>6940209
seekingarrangments

>>6940209
"Rape" his traumatized daughter just as she is about to get over her issues

>>6940197
drop by once in a while if you feel like it

>>6939472
How is it false? Have you read my arguments for both here? >>6936229 On top of that, I can't focus on my work or making a name for myself when in girl mode, just sexual things, so it's very likely a fetish. Call it denial if you want, but the fact that I can't think about my work as a girl is a big red flag.

>>6939096
I know what the truth is but I feel like my AGP is trying to cover it in a feminine fog.

>>6936532

lol same. Fuck it man its fun.

I find that it helps to worry less about what you are and more about what you really want to do with yourself.

>>6940839
And that's going to continue to happen as long as you have your current sex drive. Now I'm not going right ahead and saying you're a tranny, but the fact that you are on here right now describing how much trouble agp brings you is making it hard to consider you one of the normal cis het men with a kink.
Can you see yourself successfully having a relationship with a woman or a man in your current state?

>I know what the truth is
Then what is the truth?

>>6940940
I can't see myself in a relationship with a guy or a girl in my current state. I can look at a girl and be attracted to her, and have sexual fantasies with men, but I can't see myself in a relationship with either

The truth is that I'm a guy. I want to be a guy. I don't want to change, I like me the way I am. Every time I get turned on I want to be a girl and I hate it I hate it I hate it. I just want to be me.

>>6940557
Why would that work?

>>6940955
It doesn't sound like you like yourself just the way you are. Do you want to have a relationship with someone? Or is that something you are willing to do without?

What exactly does the AGP tell you, what is the fog?

Say there are buttons 1 and 2. If you push button 1, tomorrow you wake up and you're a normal female, no strings attached, no questions asked. Button 2 is similar but you become a normal male, no agp. Sexuality is randomly selected in both cases. In each of the following scenarios, tell me which button you press, or if you don't press a button at all.
>you have access to both button 1 and button 2
>you have access to only button 1
>you have access to only button 2

>>6941035
I'm okay not being in a relationship.

The AGP tells me to come out and accept myself for who I am, but I know that's not who I am because it only tells me that while masturbating and not any other time.

I would press button 2 in all situations it's available, and button 1 in the situation where it is not. I love these quiz questions.

i'm probably AGP, i dunno
i'm attracted to traps in general, like dick and feminine features and whatnot, sexually and romantically want to be female

>>6940197
NIGHTMARE SLAIN. Find your worth in the waking world. Don't dwell on the past.

>>6940839
>I know what the truth is but I feel like my AGP is trying to cover it in a feminine fog.
You just said that you're afraid of confronting the truth, and that you're searching for the "best truth". Why are you suddenly so sure of the truth?

Either way, if that is the truth, then a therapist is still probably the person to turn to in order to overcome your compulsive thoughts. Running away is even more pointless.

>>6941474
Masturbation is a powerful tool, as is sexual arousal. My emotions are a powerful circle based on sex and arousal. I must have masturbated 7 times in the last 5 hours based on fear alone. My friends are tired of arguing in circles with me

>>6941487
Uh.. okay. Same advice.

>>6941491
to which I redirect to >>6936025

>>6941497
Never said it was going to be easy. Right does not mean easy. Put plainly I don't think you can handle this yourself, especially since you have a vested interest in one outcome over the other. You need to figure out a way to see a therapist.

>>6941505
I take it there's no online therapists that don't work around insurance. I just want to knwo the difference between repressed trans feelings and fetish that has gotten too much validation

>>6941510
For one people with fetishes generally do not endlessly agonize over them, but that's neither here nor there. I've heard of online therapists but I don't know whether they're any good.

>>6941516
>For one people with fetishes generally do not endlessly agonize over them
I question the validity of this statement

>>6941531
You can go to /d/ and ask.

>>6941510
betterhelp.com
talkspace.com
or you can just lie to your dad because in person is much better

>>6931606
>I think for me its more about not wanting to be (physically) male in any intimate situation than wanting to be female, though
I feel the exact same way.

>>6936029
>There's an old, old argument that any transsexual not attracted exclusively to their natal sex is A*P
Hold on. I get aroused at the idea of being a straight girl, not a lesbian.
So is that not AGP?

>>6941968
According to Blanchard's silly ideas no because you're only aroused at the thought of yourself as a straight girl because being attracted to men is feminine and so enhances the fantasy of being feminine.

>>6941975
That is, you're AGP and not actually attracted to men.

>>6941968
it is agp, assuming the focus is on you and not your partner

>>6941985
I'm not sure I understand
>>6941975
Oh. So because a straight girl is "more feminine" than a lesbian girl is, it's AGP to want to be a straight girl?
Because I definitely only feel that. I want/need to write out the dreams I had last night and the night before, but it'll have to wait.

>>6941997
some people mistakenly believe having a sexual fantasy in which you are a girl is agp. it's not. a sexual fantasy whose focus is being a girl is agp.

>>6941997
Keep in mind Blanchard is a fucking hack.

I'm emotionally drained from all my discussion yesterday but no step closer to an answer. I fap a ton and have stressed over gender a ton but no for sure "I'm a guy/I'm a girl"

Any other escorts here? Is it the ultimate expression of AGP?

>>6942915
Stop masturbating all the time.

>>6934679
>No, you can be AGP and trans.

>>6941487
I don't have any advise for you regarding agp/trans stuff, but I would highly recommend you stop doing that. Masurbating that much can really fuck with your body, I just had to take a 2 day break from jerking it since I did it so much the day before it was giving me abdominal pain and making my testicles sensitive enough that wearing underwear was a little painful.

We are voting on how to change the /lgbt/ rules. Here is the poll:
https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/3066275/New-Survey
Here is the thread explaining everything:
>>6945955

>>6948396
Could you write a few more words?
I'm very confused about the terminology about all this. I don't have my penis bud id prefer it wasn't yhere. All my sexual thoughts are about being a girl having sex with guy(s). The idea of using my penis for sex doesn't arouse me.
But I'm not turned on my crossdressing or being treated like a woman.

I dont know. I don't know anything, and I'm confused, and I wish I knew. I wish I had clarity. I wish I didn't feel this way, I wish u felt some way that was possible to express with the body I have.
I wish I wanted to fuck girls so I could take about "tapping that ass" with guys. But I don't. I want to be the girl who gets complimented by the horny guy.

>>6949087
>But I'm not turned on my crossdressing or being treated like a woman.
Congratulations, you're not AGP, but a legitimate trans woman. AGP's are guys, who get hard by dressing up as girls.

>>6949095
Thinking of myself as a girlfriend makes me feel happy, but it doesn't get me off.

>>6949127
Umm… You want to be perceived as who you are, be pretty and have a partner – don't all women want that?

>>6949133
I don't really know what you're asking?
I'm not a woman. I'll never be a woman. I wish I were one. I wish I could be a guy's girlfriend. I wish I could live up to female gender stereotypes. I wish I could take his dick in my vagina. I wish I could choke on his cock.

Or, failing that, I wish I wouldn't get hard writing what I just did. Because it can never happen. It hurts.

>>6949153
Why can't you be a woman? None of what you said you wish you could do is impossible.

>>6949170
>Why can't you be a woman?
Uh, basic biology? I can't have babies or have periods, I can't have reals boobs or a real vagina. I'm 6'3".
I'm not one of those people who think "you're a woman if you say you're one :3".

>None of what you said you wish you could do is impossible.
I could do those things, yes. But the idea of having sex in my body, much less gay sex? It's disgusting. I only want to have sex or be in a relationship if I were a girl, and I can't be a girl.

>>6949153
Well… it seems you have gender dysphoria, it very probably means you are a woman in fact. You should spend some time considering
>how identifying as a GUY makes you feel – do you enjoy being a guy? do you feel awkward being asked to do guy's things? when you're among men – do you feel like one of them?
>how identifying as a GIRL makes you feel – do you see yourself as one? are you a girl in your dreams? would you be comfortable living as one? would you want to get older as a woman?
>what your personality traits are – are you more like a girl or more like a boy? have people been telling you to 'man up' or making fun of you being effeminate?
>when it all started – do you remember having similar thoughts in your childhood? maybe in your elementary or middle school? or it's just popped out recently?

>>6949212
I don't know what "identifying as X" means.
How I feel now is a state of nothingness. No wants or desires. I just live, because dying is permanent and prevents anything from changing.
I don't know what "guy thing are, so I can't answer that. I've mostly had females friends if that answers anything?

Again, I don't know what "identifying as a girl" means. I don't think my life would change, but o could see myself being in a relationship. I feel like I would "deserve" being in one, and that I could be happy in one.
I see myself as a girl(friend) in my dreams, yes. Both the comfy and sexual ones.
I don't know what you mean with personality traits. I feel like if I were a woman I could express myself more. Right now I feel like I have to suppress feelings and never talk about them. Always pretend like I'm fine.

I never thought about sexuality as a kid or teenager. I masturbates and still do on a weekly level. It doesn't feel good to me. It's only in the last year or so I've thought about wanting to be a girl, but I rememrber that the same day I had a fetish dream about being a girl, I also had a nice, non-sexual dream about being a girl.
Most of my "being a girl" dreams aren't sexual anymore.

>>6949211
Being transgender IS a thing, it's confirmed by neuropsychology and shit. It's all more complex than you think – everyone can have both feminine and masculine personality traits, no matter their born sex. Being a trans woman is a mental condition, when someone with XY chromosomes has a brain typical to a female person and they experience gender dysphoria, which you clearly do.

You can have real boobs actually – if you take hormones, your boobs start growing. You can even lactate. Unfortunately you can't have a real vagina (though the surgical one is kind of similar – for example they make labia from scrotum, which are built from the same kind of tissue – each part of female genitals correspond to a part of male genitals and the surgery makes use of that). Being 6'3" doesn't help, but if you're young and your face isn't too masculine – maybe something can be done.

>>6949271
Think of 'identifying' as 'being recognised as'. Do you like when your parents call you 'son' and other people call you 'sir'?
Being depressed doesn't help too, but well… all trans people are depressed, because they can't properly express themselves.
Anyways, you seem to be trans for me, but I don't want to push you into it. You should seek help from a gender therapist.

>>6949212
I appreciate you asking this, by the way.
>>6949274
I feel like attempting to transition would be living a lie. That any guy who would be willing to date me would be better off with a real girl.
That I'd be more of a burden. That I'm so big of a loser as a guy I tried to be a girl, but I'm not a girl. I can't have his children. I don't menstruate. I could never be a real girl.
That I'm a faker.
>>6949293
Why would I feel anything when people call me "he"? I'd obviously want to be seen as a girl if I were one. I really don't understand this question.
>gender therapist
Funny you mention a therapist. I've visited one twice (not a gender one). She says making meticulous plans over what happens after you kill yourself, and calculating how long it takes anyone to find your corpse, is normal.

>>6949359
Well, if a guy already meets you and falls in love with you there may be no way back for him. Some straight guys and literally all bi guys have nothing against dating trans girls. Everyone is unique and everyone has traits and values that can make someone else love them. Your gender and the fact that you're cis or trans do not define you. You're not a faker – you just want to make peace with yourself and make your body represent you better.
>I can't have his children. I don't menstruate. I could never be a real girl.
Umm… what about infertile women? Are they really guys? Also you're not a 'real boy' as well desu – they don't rather happen to have such feelings…
>Funny you mention a therapist. I've visited one twice (not a gender one). She says making meticulous plans over what happens after you kill yourself, and calculating how long it takes anyone to find your corpse, is normal.
Eh, some therapists just suck. Especially if you didn't tell them about your trans feelings – how could they know? A therapist who has any experience with trans people would be way better anyways though.

>>6949274
>Being a trans woman is a mental condition, when someone with XY chromosomes has a brain typical to a female person and they experience gender dysphoria, which you clearly do.
Yes, but I also feel like I would be an unlovable freak if I took hormones. And the idea of having to fight with doctors and psychologists to get said hormones is exhausting to think about.
>>6949412
>everyone has traits and values that can make someone else love them
I don't agree. I don't think I had any positive qualities.
>can make someone else love them
That sounds like trapping someone. Lying to them until they're already invested. I hope im reading your post wrong, because that would make me feel horrible.
>infertile women
Don't do that. That's not a fair comparison. They still have wombs. I will never have that
>therapist
I already feel awful telling her how I feel. The idea of telling her I wish I were a girl would make me feel even more lousy.

I know I'm being really negative.

>>6949444
>unlovable freak
Probably you'd be one to someone dumb, but do you really wanna date a shallow idiot? An intelligent person would see way more than just a 'tranny'. You probably have many positive qualities and your depression makes you blind to them. You should think about that for a while, consider some compliments people give you, your hobbies and stuff you just do well. It all may seem 'insignificant' but what the hell really is significant. Though… love isn't even about qualities – you're a unique individual and that's what would attract someone to you. Do you think only big-titted, big-assed, commonly perceived attractive girls ever find boyfriends? It doesn't work like that…
>That sounds like trapping someone
I didn't mean that. But is 'trapping someone' really that bad though? Trans women ARE women, so well…
>They still have wombs
And you don't. Who cares. You want to be happy.

>>6949486
Thanks you. You're very calming.

>>6949504
np :3

>>6949087
You're not agp and so that conversation really belonged elsewhere. Also see >>6942007

This is not an accurate post >>6949095

>>6949127
That is what being trans is all about imo. Don't particularly like female pronouns (I'm very emotional and always equated it with being a little bitch and therefore negative) but seeing myself as beautiful gives me a calm warm feeling and a mental clarity. Also have epilepsy so I get stress-seizures and cloudy when embarassed or disphoric.

Anyone have AGP fantasies while fapping but get really anxious about acting them out?

I fap to the thought of wearing women's clothing and shoes and being fucked in the vagina but when I try to crossdress I get really anxious right before I put the clothes on. And when I do put the clothes on instead of being turned on I feel like shit because I'm reminded that my body isn't female.

>>6949271
Seems like getting on hrt for a short time at least might help you figure out where you stand. The change is gradual and you won't be ailenating your maleness or virility if you only try it for a little while. You sound more trutrans than I and I'm about to get on hrt myself.

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>>6950669

>>6949274
I've had agp orgasm fetish since middle school, found out what agp was just figured I had a kink. But my lactophilia is one of the things that made me realize my identity. It is my oldest fetish. I remember when I got in 2nd grade, when I found out what nipples are for. It was very basic then but of course now I teally want to lactate. How common is this among trans women? Veeery reclusive person so when I bought a breast pump I felt HORRIBLE but I gotta say stimulating my nipples feels SO good. That and normal feminization turns me on. When I seriously asked myself about being trans it all 'clicked' and I'm like wow those pieces fit a little too well. That, being ambiguously depressed and never looking straight into a mirror. And having back-length blonde hair I refuse to cut.

>>6949612
>that conversation really belonged elsewhere.
Where?
>Also see >>6942007
The focus on my fantasies, both sexual and not, is being a girl in a straight relationship. Is that or is that not AGP? Is that or is that not being trans?
>>6950646
Oh poo. I wouldn't say in emotional but that's mostly because I try not to feel. It's easier to suppress.
>>6950682
I don't live in America, I don't think I can get female hormones, and certainly not tell my doctor I want to stop after three months because "lol I'm not trans anyway teehee~"
If I could get hormones without having to go through multiple doctors and psychologists, sure, I'd love that.
>trutrans
What is that? I've only been in this thread on the board.

I just… I just wish I knew. Knew what my want, how I feel. I wish I felt like I could have sex and be loved with this body. That I didn't constantly avoid feeling

>>6951035
well so is it or isn't it? you say it's main focus is you being a girl, but you say it's the men too, and things like
>Thinking of myself as a girlfriend makes me feel happy, but it doesn't get me off.

regardless, whether you're agp or not is pretty immaterial considering you seem to be asking about being trans, in which case transhelpgen will be helpful

>>6951061
>you say it's main focus is you being a girl, but you say it's the men too
Yes, I dot get aroused to the thought of being a girl or being a girlfriend. It makes me feel comfy, like I can express my feelings.
I don't get off to it. Sure I'd try masterbating if I were a girl but I haven't had a fantasy about doing it.
Being a girl and having sex with a guy is what arouses me.

(I realize I come off as very angry and dismissive. Sorry)

>>6948396
>>6949095
>tfw you can't even muster the fucks to argue with these people yet again
What's the point? A week later someone else will come by and make the same stupid claims.

>>6950750
I really hope not. I didn't even start having AGP fantasies until I was 19.

>>6951081
right so
>I don't get aroused to the thought of being a girl or being a girlfriend.
>Being a girl and having sex with a guy is what arouses me.
so having sex with a guy is what arouses you. not being a girl. so, not agp. check out thg

>>6951096
it doesn't matter, just your average bait....

>>6951136
i'm only saying because
>And when I do put the clothes on instead of being turned on I feel like shit because I'm reminded that my body isn't female.
strikes me as a huge tranny red flag. crossdressers or random fetishists don't give a fuck like that

>>6951212
If someone repeats a lie often enough and it goes unchallenged bystanders who don't know better start believing it. That's how the discourse around AGP got to where it is in the first place. I know this. I just can't fight every goddamn troll anymore. It's exhausting.

>>6951232
yeah that's a good point honestly. i don't have more energy than to put a sarcastic oneliner every so often though

>>6951178
Will do.

>>6940973
It's a movie reference, anon.

>>6935917

Are you applying that picture to Blanchard's claim that bi trans women can't actually love a man and the man is just a tool to feel like a woman?

>>6935990

>When you project your sexual feelings onto a lady and imagine yourself as her in a sexual encounter so you're able to get off on it
>Anyone else know this feel?

Nope. Every time a girl has wanted either sex or a relationship from me, I always feel an anxiety, desire to run far away, and the wish that she would quickly find someone else. Plus, there's the envy that they get to live as women, and some of them even had great figures.

>When you're AGP as fuck so you don't realize you're trans, but then you start HRT and you stop being AGP and just like being cute to be cute and attract boys

Not quite so much to the part before the comma because I had some repressed unconscious knowledge that I was a tranny. I've been on HRT for a year as of a few days, but I don't pass and live in boy mode. My aunt was driving me to a psychologist appointment and her sister, another aunt, gave me quesadillas to eat in the car because we were in a rush. Because they were wrapped in aluminum foil, as I was eating them my lower face was covered from view. I had just gotten out of the shower when we left, so my hair was slicked back kind of into a ponytail. I saw some guys looking at me as we drove by and it felt good. I think it's really my jaw that's holding me back from passing.

Ok friends what do you think about me?

>Fantasied about/dreamed about being a girl as a young child, like 6 y/o.
>Never told anyone about it, felt it shameful/embarrassing
>Once remember thinking "if all my family died I'd have a sex change" (Kid logic right?)

Fast forward to 12 y/o.
>First time I ever masturbated was by accident, while attempting to follow a tucking youtube video
>Had been trying to tuck for a while (I think)
>Kept on masturbating
>Discover Literotica (trans stories) and eventually Fictionmania
>Forced fem ect...
>Always mentally placed myself in the position of being feminized.
>Write it off as a fetish

Fast forward to 15
>Kind of come to the conclusion I'm trans (not exactly sure why)
>tell parents at 16
>get on blockers
>Estrogen once I was 18

I'm still 18 and I still have AGP feelings. I feel Significant dysphoria surrounding my face/body, body hair ect... Some genital dysphoria but less.

I used to be exclusively attracted to girls, but imagined myself in a female position (sexually)

Since starting HRT I feel like attracted to guys more and less so to girls, but some attraction to both.
Some internalized homophobia surrounding imaging myself with a girl I think

Also extremely sexually submissive (can't really see myself topping anyone)

Want SRS eventually, but FFS more

What the fuck am I... anyone got any incite...

>>6954650
Seems pretty clear-cut trans to me.

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How far would you go to have a body like this?

>>6954650
who cares. you already are a young tranny so just roll with it

>>6954678
Lol you have no idea how ugly I am,

>>6954711
i'm sure you and all the other young starters on here are the .01% who can't pass at that age
yeah

>>6954743
now I never said that :P
I know I can pass one day, but it won't be easy and of course passing isn't everything...

>>6954776
>passing isn't everything
the luxury of being a passer

>>6954743

How old are you?

>>6954792
25

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>>6954665
I feel a heroin chic look would be more my style. Though, that body would be very good.

>>6954787
I really don't pass right now, You should see my browbone... But passing isn't the only thing I care about... getting too fixated on it makes you go crazy

>>6954887
It's easy not to get too fixated on passing when at worst you will be leaning male but still well within cis female ranges

I don't think I could say anything to convince you, but what you're saying does not seem at all healthy...

>>6954665
Not very. She must have droopy tits and insane amounts of cellulite.
I'd rather not be a caricature.

>>6954650
>Fictionmania
you poor fool

>>6954650
At this point how can you doubt that you're trans given that you've experienced dysphoria and went through all of this?

Is playing with your boobs AGP? It just feels so good ;~;

>>6956313
It's pretty normal if you do it while masturbating and are not, like, obsessed with it otherwise.

>>6956285
I think it's the whole AGP stigma that exists...Makes me feel like i'm not legitimate,I don't know if I can fully explain it

>>6956277
>tfw found FM in the early 2000s because dumb kid and not much else existed then
>tfw that anon and other kids today have a million other mainstream sites to figure out this shit young

>>6956394
fuck
off

I literally don't know why you're saying this

>>6956394
I get that, but knowing that so many other transwomen used to experience these feelings and went on to lead a good life as their gender ought persuade you that feeling like this does not mean that you are not trans. You felt the same sort of dysphoria, did you not? AGP did not drive you to do what you did, but is simply something that appeared alongside your dysphoria. Is this not the case?

>>6956468
Why are you telling them to fuck off?

Am I a bad person for feeling some kind of anger at my friend who just expressed he jerks off to himself in panties and is jealous that I'm a woman?

I feel bad. How do I fix this? I guess just red pill me on why you guys aren't total pervs so I can give him makeovers like he wants and not want to make his face super gaudy. Not super angry, I guess just put off.

>>6956496
because i don't want to fucking hear about another youngshit complaining about inane bullshit as a thinly veiled excuse at parading its luck in front of my face

>>6956496
I suppose it's kind of like a niggling doubt at the back of my mind... It bothers me a lot to be honest, although typing all this out makes me realise how irrational I sound...

>>6956500
how do you define perv though

you dont really choose to be agp though

you dont need to do anything youre uncomfortable with, and if youre just friends its kinda weird that he involves you in essentially his sex life

>>6956500
>Am I a bad person for feeling some kind of anger at my friend who just expressed he jerks off to himself in panties and is jealous that I'm a woman?
I mean, that's a pretty weird thing to confide to anyone. What's the context?

> I guess just red pill me on why you guys aren't total pervs
Here we go again..
Autogynephilia/Autoandrophilia is the arousal at the thought of yourself as a member of the opposite sex, in body and/or in behavior stereotypical to that gender. It is a paraphilia - a fetish - and so I don't think you can deny it's a perversion of some sort if you're one to use the word pervert at all.

Here is where things get complicated: as with other fetishes having either of these fetishes does not imply that you're gay or straight or cis or trans. There are cis, straight people who are aroused by these thoughts and - brace yourself - there are transsexuals who are similarly aroused by these thoughts. They still experience dysphoria just like transsexuals who do not have the fetish.

The fetish is actually extremely common among transsexuals when compared to the general population. No one knows why this is the case. Anti-trans activists tried to paint these people as deviants who are motivated to transition by their sexual fantasies. Pro-trans writers suggest that this is a coping mechanism. No one really knows. What is known, though, is that the vast majority of transsexuals who go on to transition are no longer aroused by AGP/AAP thoughts.

Questions?

>I feel bad. How do I fix this?
Honestly if it is just a fetishistic thing for them asking your friend to help out with that is really weird. If you somehow misunderstood them then that's a different story. Depends on the context.

>>6956536
I completely understand. When it starts to bother you try and go over the reasons that doubt makes no sense. Be strong.

>>6956598
Thank you stranger, much love <3

>>6956590
>No one really knows. What is known, though, is that the vast majority of transsexuals who go on to transition are no longer aroused by AGP/AAP thoughts.
I still kinda feel them like when masturbating I feel my breasts...idk if anyone else does that and I imagine myself as a girl.

Before transition I would get kinda turned on by panties or other tight restricting girl clothes when I cross dressed but not anymore. I even tried to masturbate with panties on and it was just weird and I couldn't get hard so idk. I would find myself cringing on the fact that I had in the past gotten turned on by any of this.

>>6956622
This brings me to another common misconception: that any sexual fantasy where you are a member of your non-natal sex is necessarily AGP/AAP.

If you fantasize about yourself as a member of your non-natal sex in a sex-related situation and get turned on by that fantasy.. well, cis men/women do the same! Imagining yourself as a man/woman in a sex fantasy is normal if you identify as a man/a woman. The fantasy only becomes AGP/AAP if you're turned on by some non-sex-related aspect connected to being your non-natal sex e.g. cross-dressing or behaving in a stereotypical manner. If you're turned on by the mere image of yourself as a member of your non-natal sex in a sex-unrelated situation then I'd also count that as AAP/AGP as well.

I don't know in what context you're aroused by yourself so I can't really tell whether the first case is AGP but no longer being aroused by cross-dressing is exactly outgrowing AGP after transitioning. If you're the poster who posted about this previously then you're only a year in, right? There was another transitioner in this thread for whom it took longer to completely get over AGP.

>>6956660
>If you're the poster who posted about this previously then you're only a year in, right?
No I've never posted here before, I'm a trip in mtfg though. I've been in transition for at least 6 years and it did go away pretty quickly. I still have a hard time getting off to just thinking of having sex with someone, I have to imagine myself as a woman a lot of the time but in terms of getting hard from women's clothing or seeing myself as a woman I don't at all anymore and I'm happy about it. I feel happier but also I feel fake sometimes because i'll never be a real woman and that makes me feel masculine and gross.

Transition helped but then it didn't. I don't even care about the whole agp thing and if I'm a real transsexual, it doesn't matter at this point.

>>6956682
>a real woman
Just because you're not literally a cis woman does not mean that you're not a woman. You're not a man, right? men don't look like that or pump themselves full of female hormones. You're a transwoman. A subtype.

>a real transsexual
How can you be anything but a real transsexual if you've experienced dysphoria and went on to feel better after transitioning?

>agp
Well, some people don't entirely get over it but from the sound of it you mostly (possibly entirely?) did?

>Transition helped but then it didn't
How did it fall short of your expectations?

>>6956706
>How did it fall short of your expectations?
It's just not enough to calm all of my gender dysphoria. I want to be a natural woman but I can't and cannot accept this fact. Transition to me is like being given a small sample of what it's like to be a natural woman but never the whole thing. I want the whole exp.

I hate being trans.

>>6956778
I'm sorry. I guess we just have to make the most of what we have.

>>6956505
Damn you salty.

>>6940557

How do you know she was just about to get over her issues? It seemed like she was a round square to me.

>women who can't express their identity or sexuality develop fetishes in which they express both their identity and sexuality
>It practically always away once they can express both comfortably
>no one knows why this happens

You guys are a bunch of fucking idiots.

>>6957144
What about those who do not overcome it? Why do only some people who repress develop it while others do not? I think this theory makes more sense but it is not without flaws. There is no concrete proof that it is correct. You're being needlessly antagonistic.

>>6957313

>what about those who don't overcome it
Life and people are nuanced. If you're going to ignore an overwhelmingly obvious conclusion because "we can't prove it concretely!" then you're definitely a fucking idiot.

>>6957466
I'm just trying to be truthful. I mean, we reject Blanchard's work because it is unscientific. Can we really turn around and decide that a likely theory is the absolute truth without backing it with science? I think it makes sense but I feel uncomfortable telling people that's a fact.

>>6934679
if you are a faggot tranny you are more likely to not have issues transitioning

but transitioning straight dudes are usually just misguided and fucked up

>>6957699
Try lurking and educating yourself before posting next time. Thanks.

>>6957667

Luckily for me I'm confident enough to use common sense instead of being some dogma driven wizard of logicke and rationalægh

>>6957715
I don't feel that we should be enemies just because this is something we don't entirely agree on. Don't we ultimately stand for the same things?

>>6957707
implying im wrong in stating that straight mtf should transition because mostly its going to fuck them up

>>6957747
Read
>>6956590
>>6956660

>>6956590
He told me after I went to the bathroom. He said he was jealous that I get to go in female only zones. I knew about his wearing women's clothing before but just kind of ignored it, but since he's like 2/10 on the social grace scale he just went all out and talked about it in a Starbucks.

Thanks for the information.

And what do you mean, "asking your friend to help out with that is really weird?" I wouldn't ask him to help me not be weirded out around him, if that's what you mean.

>>6957144
You guys are idiots, tg e reason why it goes away after transition is because you are taking testosterone blockers an thus reducing your libido which reduces the agp tendecies.

Most agpers are just straight men aka trans lesbians who have a fetish. You aren't lesbian women because you like girls and have masculine hobbies,you are just your typical straight men lol.

>>6957667
No its rejected because of how controversial it is. Any theory that stigmatize's a large group of people isn't goingbto be supported no matter how much evidence you have. It would be like someone saying gays are mentally insane , the backlash from saying something like that would be enormous and any evidence presented would have holes poked through it just like Blanchard theory.

If this theory had be presented back when there were no lgbt community then things would probably have turned out different.

>>6958867
>He told me after I went to the bathroom. He said he was jealous that I get to go in female only zones. I knew about his wearing women's clothing before but just kind of ignored it, but since he's like 2/10 on the social grace scale he just went all out and talked about it in a Starbucks.
That's a really awkward thing for him to do. I'd NOPE right out of there haha.

>And what do you mean, "asking your friend to help out with that is really weird?" I wouldn't ask him to help me not be weirded out around him, if that's what you mean.
Nah it is weird that he asked for your help with something like this when you're just friends.

>>6959110
>You guys are idiots, tg e reason why it goes away after transition is because you are taking testosterone blockers an thus reducing your libido which reduces the agp tendecies.
If the motivation to transition is sexual how come said people report an improvement in their well being and continue the process? Wouldn't that be counter-productive? Why go on when your supposed motivation no longer applies? Wouldn't you start experiencing dysphoria if you were straight and transitioned, especially once your sexual motivation went away?

It is telling that Blanchard's school of thought does not make your argument - it does not add up. The traditional answer is that the lower libido somehow transforms the formerly sexual AGP drive into a romantic, asexual one. Freudian nonsense if you ask me.

>Most agpers are just straight men aka trans lesbians who have a fetish. You aren't lesbian women because you like girls and have masculine hobbies,you are just your typical straight men lol.
And what do you base these claims on?

>>6959171
People like to repeat this but it is just not true. Blanchard's theory was ultimately rejected because it *lacked evidence*. He has shown that 1) later transitioners tend to exhibit autogynephilic attraction and 2) early transitioners tend to be more gender-conforming. He has not shown, in any way, that autogynephilia causes the development of a cross-gender identity as he claims. He has not even shown an actual correlation between sexual attraction and autogynephilia because he dismissed research subjects who did not fit his theory as liers. That is pretty much hand-picking evidence and does not make for good science.

>It would be like someone saying gays are mentally insane
For the record Blanchard also said homosexuals are mentally ill, and transsexuality is a mental illness as an extension of extreme homosexuality in the case of HSTSs

>If this theory had be presented back when there were no lgbt community then things would probably have turned out different
That's more or less what happened. His theory enjoyed some popularity for years because it was politically convenient.

>>6959201
>straight
*cis

>>6959110
Your libido doesn't go away entirelyin many cases. Some people report an increase, even.

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So I just downloaded Men Trapped in Men's Bodies as an ebook. The rush I get from reading literal thoughtcrime is strong, not to mention it's a good read so far. It's a little dry for a full-length book, but it's easy to understand and I just might learn something about myself from it. I feel like Winston Smith (or Julia) cracking open Goldstein's book for the first time.

>>6959936
lol
yeah i bet it would be a lot less interesting if it weren't personally relevant. i read maybe half of it at one point while I still cared about "what I am"

>>6956660
Not the anon you replied to but I get turned on fantasizing about being a girl and wearing girly things, often in a sex related situation, but don't get turned on from just wearing panties or tight girl clothes. Are you saying I'm a tranny and not AGP?

>>6960325
that might be still agp as long as the focus is on YOU being girl
i.e.
>having sex and you happen to be a girl fantasy
not agp
>fantasy where you're a girl and oh shit look you're a girl and having sex fuck
agp

>>6960610
I can't really tell thinking about my fantasies desu. The focus is more on being submissive to a guy or girl but having a female face and body is a part of them too. Occasionally I'll have fantasies about fucking a girl with my penis too.

>>6960663
if it's that difficult to tell why does it even matter

>>6960060
What I'm mostly getting out of it is that AGP is the "perfected" form of my sexuality. Reading the phrase "I wanted to BE her" over and over again in the book has made me realize that my particular strain of attraction to femininity has never been the "normal" kind. By default it has been wanting to feel what a girl feels, ideally (in my case) by wearing her clothes. Sexually-driven envy of femininity is not reconcilable with "normal" heterosexuality.

In other words if you want to reach any kind of self-actualization in this area of your life you'd best accept it and ride it wherever it takes you.

>>6959936
That's Lawrence's book, right? Note that she makes the same logical leap regarding motivations and correlation/causation as Blanchard did. I read some of her articles when I first started researching the subject but at this point I find them mostly not worth the time for the reason I mentioned previously.

>>6960325
>Are you saying I'm a tranny and not AGP?
First thing first, if you're asking this then you've completely ignored my first post.
>>6956590
You can be neither, either or both. One does not negate the other.

Either way I agree with the other poster that it depends on the focus of the fantasy. There's nothing unusual with imagining yourself as part of a fantasy or with thinking about your own behavior during it but if your partner and the sex itself is secondary to thinking of your own feminity then that might make the fantasy AGP. I'd note, though, that you'd have to focus on it quite heavily in exclusion of much else for it to qualify. That cross-dressing/acting in a stereotypically feminine fashion in sex-unrelated situations does nothing for you tells me that it is probably not AGP.

>>6940209
A noose, preferably

>>6962140
Are you that transbian agp poster who always tries to discredit Blanchard yet use the term he coined to describe yourself while also trying to make people think it's not a fetish that relates to transwomen only when in fact it is?

For such a Blanchard hater you sure spout his work a lot.

>>6959254
>>6962387
this butthurt poster too with all the hater aide.

>>6959201
>If the motivation to transition is sexual how come said people report an improvement in their well being and continue the process?
Because they're relieved of the problems agp causes in everyday life so they keep taking the "miracle" drug that helped them. Little do they know it's really the testosterone that helped them not the estrogen. Most agp'ers can simply take T to reduce the agp symptoms, I've talked to many agp people who have done this successfully. The only real risk is becoming sterile but if you want this suppressed that's a risk you'll be willing to take.

>Wouldn't you start experiencing dysphoria if you were straight and transitioned, especially once your sexual motivation went away?
No this is a silly myth in the trans community, the myth being that if you are cis and not real trans and you take hormones of the opposite sex you'll become gender dysphoric. I know for a fact this is bs as I've talked to many drag queens, crossdressers, and transvestites who swore up and down they were fine being born male but wanted to take hormones anyway for their own purposes. I have no reason to doubt them. The only case people bring up is that Alan turing guy who was convicted of sex crimes for being gay back in the day and got put on hormones to chemically castrate him. He killed himself later on but nobody really knows the real reason why, it's all just speculation. I personally think it's simply that he wasn't allowed to be a gay man.

>It is telling that Blanchard's school of thought does not make your argument - it does not add up
It really does add up you just aren't accepting the truth because of how it paints a picture of you any others like this. Acceptance is the first step to recovery for any problem.

>>6962387
how exactly would you suggest someone discuss blanchard's typology without talking about autogynephilia?

>>6959201
>and what do you base these claims on?
My decades of personal exp around other agp mtf's like myself. Not to mention all the testimonies and research done by Blanchard himself although I'm sure you'll dismiss that as proof. The vast majority of agp mtf's are lesbian and bisexual. A very small portion were reported to be straight, blnachard dubbed them "pseudo homosexual transsexuals" because they were mimicking straight mtf's, they were basically agp mtf's who were confused and thought because they got aroused by imagining having sex with a man as a woman in their fantasies then they're straight women but what's really happening here and it's documented by Blanchard is that these people are actually getting off to themselves as women and nothing else, not the man's body, just their own and upon experimenting with men irl did they find out it's not as good in irl as in their heads and go back to being trans lesbians. This also explains why there as so many transwomen claiming to be bisexual.


>>6959254
>Blanchard's theory was ultimately rejected because it *lacked evidence
This is false and truly the weakest argument one can use against him. The theory of autogynephila was in the DSM and they don't put any theories in there without theme being proven. What you mean to say is that the DSM committee thought it needed more evidence to connect trans people and removed it. The evidence was there but not presented in a way that was more convincing to others. Blanchard peer's all agreed with him and his work was featured in several peer reviewed scientific journals of the time in the US and EU. He was a respected man and someone like you who is just repeating the same old anti-agp gibberish to make yourself feel better does not deserve to slander his name.

>>6962387
>Are you that transbian agp poster
I haven't transitioned and have no plans to.

> who always tries to discredit Blanchard yet use the term he coined to describe yourself
I've suggested that we use other terms multiple times. People didn't comply so I use the terms they know. If I started dropping FEFs or one of the older terms no one would know what the fuck I'm saying.

I'm not "trying" to discredit Blanchard - I am pointing out why he is discredited. If you think his research is not in fact scientifically flawed you're welcome to point out why.

>while also trying to make people think it's not a fetish that relates to transwomen only when in fact it is?
Why do you believe that there are no cis individuals who have this fetish? Cis individuals just don't experience everything else that comes with being transgender e.g. dysphoria. Generally speaking they don't spend a great deal of time wondering whether they're trans.

>For such a Blanchard hater you sure spout his work a lot.
Mostly to point out the ways in which it is flawed. Ought you not be familiar with what you argue against? I don't understand your anger.

>>6962432
>Little do they know it's really the testosterone that helped them not the estrogen. Most agp'ers can simply take T to reduce the agp symptoms, I've talked to many agp people who have done this successfully. The only real risk is becoming sterile but if you want this suppressed that's a risk you'll be willing to take.
I was about to respond but thanks for saving me the time by opening with the ridiculous claims with zero backing from the medical community.

>>6959254
>He has not even shown an actual correlation between sexual attraction and autogynephilia because he dismissed research subjects who did not fit his theory as liers
In his book he does prove that with a series of tests that showed most of the applicants that were agp were also lesbian or bisexual and also came up with a special instrument to measure sexual arouse in subjects.

>For the record Blanchard also said homosexuals are mentally ill, and transsexuality is a mental illness as an extension of extreme homosexuality in the case of HSTSs
Incorrect again, all he said was that straight transsexual or homosexual transsexual were gay men before transition which in most cases is true. He doesn't say they're just extreme homosexuals at all. The only person who suggested this was Baily who continued on with blanchards work. He's nowhere near as creditable as him though and most people think he was just attempting to ride blanchards coattails.

>That's more or less what happened. His theory enjoyed some popularity for years because it was politically convenient
So you're agreeing then that even with proper evidence a theory like blanchards would be dismissed in our day and age?

Good to know we're on the same page. :)

>>6962488
>My decades of personal exp around other agp mtf's like myself
Anecdotes do not make data.

>Not to mention all the testimonies and research done by Blanchard himself although I'm sure you'll dismiss that as proof.
I'm dismissing it because it does not actually prove what you claim it proves. Correlation does not imply causation. He took solid data that showed exactly what I said it did and went on to extrapolate beyond reason. He relied on self-reporting to gather some of the data then went on to dismiss those self reports that did not fit his hypothesis as fabricated. How is that scientific?

>The theory of autogynephila was in the DSM and they don't put any theories in there without theme being proven. What you mean to say is that the DSM committee thought it needed more evidence to connect trans people and removed it. The evidence was there but not presented in a way that was more convincing to others. Blanchard peer's all agreed with him and his work was featured in several peer reviewed scientific journals of the time in the US and EU. He was a respected man and someone like you who is just repeating the same old anti-agp gibberish to make yourself feel better does not deserve to slander his name.
The very same scientific community you hold in high esteem went on to dismiss his claims as lacking proof.

>>6962491
>If you think his research is not in fact scientifically flawed you're welcome to point out why.
I'm still waiting for you to point out a valid reason why it is. :^)

>>6962513
>In his book he does prove that with a series of tests that showed most of the applicants that were agp were also lesbian or bisexual and also came up with a special instrument to measure sexual arouse in subjects.
The phallometric tests showed that most, but not all, of the subjects fit those parts of the hypothesis focused on sexual orientation. Blanchard's claim that ALL transwomen fall into the dichotomy is quite different.

>Incorrect again, all he said was that straight transsexual or homosexual transsexual were gay men before transition which in most cases is true. He doesn't say they're just extreme homosexuals at all. The only person who suggested this was Baily who continued on with blanchards work. He's nowhere near as creditable as him though and most people think he was just attempting to ride blanchards coattails.
Didn't Blanchard make the claim that HSTSs are extremely feminine gay men who transition because they're so feminine that they funciton better as women and it helps them get men? I could've sworn he said it before his mini-me did.

>So you're agreeing then that even with proper evidence a theory like blanchards would be dismissed in our day and age?
I know you're trying to score points but actually I do think that. Nowadays it feels like people pick and choose what research to believe based on the results instead of examining the methods. I think Blanchard's research is flawed but e.g. Moser's attempt to prove cis women experience AGP is equally laughable. I blame political groups advancing dogma.

>>6962491
>Why do you believe that there are no cis individuals who have this fetish?
Because their aren't. A cis woman does not get off to imaging herself as the opposite gender. There have been case where a cis woman would get off by feeling sexy but that's not the same thing.

What it comes down to is if this was a real thing that cis women experienced too then why aren't there a lot of cis women claiming to have this? Surely there would be a lot of claims anon over the internet yet I see barely any.

>I was about to respond but thanks for saving me the time by opening with the ridiculous claims with zero backing from the medical community.
Why would something like this have medical backing when most people now a days don't support it or even know about it?

No medical professional is gonna risk their career and open back up this Pandora's box just to prove that or that Blanchard was right. I think they learned their lesson, never go against popular opinion and the LGBT community unless you want to be burned at the stake.

Don't you just love how politics work?

>>6962544
>Blanchard's claim that ALL transwomen fall into the dichotomy is quite different
If you say so, you'd be wrong though. :p

>Didn't Blanchard make the claim that HSTSs are extremely feminine gay men who transition because they're so feminine that they funciton better as women and it helps them get men? I could've sworn he said it before his mini-me did.
No, again that's Michael Bailey you're thinking of who made such claims in his book "The man that would be queen".

>Nowadays it feels like people pick and choose what research to believe based on the results instead of examining the methods
You mean how you and many other anti Blanchard haters cherry pick examples of blanchards work in an attempt to discredit him?

>Moser's attempt to prove cis women experience AGP is equally laughable
At least we agree on something.

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Can we stop arguing about the medical significance of some old guy's research and just appreciate the simple things. Like boobs, boobs are wonderful, I wish I had moar boob.

>>6962526
I've already done so multiple times.
1) The data shows that older transitioners tend to experience autogynephilia and exhibit less feminine behavior as children. From this he extrapolates that autogynephilia causes said transitioners to develop a cross-gender identity and desire to transition. This is a clear non-sequitur as he produces no proof that this is the case. It is just a guess.
2) He relied on self-reporting to determine whether his patients experienced autogynephilia in the past. He then went on to discard reports contrary to his theory that all NHTSs experience autogynephilia, assuming that those individuals were lying. This is not how you do science.
3) He dismissed the existence of AAP based on the idea that women very rarely experience paraphilias. The existence of AAP FTMs at above-paraphilia rates in AFABs does not disprove but does severely challenge the idea that AGP is a paraphilia that causes the development of a cross-gender identity rather than it being a side-effect of having a repressed cross-gender identity.

>>6962523
>Anecdotes do not make data
Data is built on evidence whether it's empirical or anecdotal. You can't simply dismiss evidence because you don't like the source it came from. Science doesn't work that way.

>I'm dismissing it because it does not actually prove what you claim it proves
It does you're just to stupid to understand the evidence. You have no idea what you're talking about and are just repeating the same Julia Serano response to agp theory.

>The very same scientific community you hold in high esteem went on to dismiss his claims as lacking proof
Not the scientific community as whole, just certain parts of it that were pro LGBT and supported the growing trans movement. It's ironic that a lesbian trans woman was one of the DSM committee members who weighed in on that decision.

I've heard the same tired responses from angry transbian agp trans women like yourself for years. It's truly a weak argument.

>>6962545
>Because their aren't. A cis woman does not get off to imaging herself as the opposite gender. There have been case where a cis woman would get off by feeling sexy but that's not the same thing.
Ah. You misunderstand. I did not imply that cis women also experienced AGP; I implied that cis men who are not trans sometimes also experience AGP. I also pointed out that not every fantasy in which you're a member of the other gender is necessarily AGP/AAP in nature.

>No medical professional is gonna risk their career and open back up this Pandora's box just to prove that or that Blanchard was right. I think they learned their lesson, never go against popular opinion and the LGBT community unless you want to be burned at the stake.
Anon there are a lot of research papers being released all the time in support of such positions. Just check Zucker's paper.

>>6962569
>The data shows that older transitioners tend to experience autogynephilia and exhibit less feminine behavior as children
See you're doing it again, you're misinterupting his work to fit your argument. If you had actually read his book and read his works then you'd know that not just old but younger transitioners are agp too.

> He relied on self-reporting to determine whether his patients experienced autogynephilia in the past
If you mean questionaires and interviewing patients then yes but those are perfectly valid.

>He then went on to discard reports contrary to his theory that all NHTSs experience autogynephilia, assuming that those individuals were lying.
This is a baseless rumor and nothing more, I challenge you to present any evidence proving this. I'm not holding my breath though, all you've done here with this post is present "your" theories and opinions on the subject and haven't backed up any of it.

>He dismissed the existence of AAP based on the idea that women very rarely experience paraphilias
This is true though.....

>The existence of AAP FTMs at above-paraphilia rates in AFABs does not disprove but does severely challenge the idea that AGP is a paraphilia that causes the development of a cross-gender identity rather than it being a side-effect of having a repressed cross-gender identity.
Lol no it doesn't you moron, one has nothing to do with the other. Besides agp is his main focus not aap. He was correct though that cis women rarely exp paraphilias. That is proven science by others. If he said something else about aap and made a mistake I'm not holding that against his work with agp. Like I said one does not have anything to do with the other.

>>6962555
>If you say so
He literally capitalizes ALL in his review paper on his previous research Anon.

>You mean how you and many other anti Blanchard haters cherry pick examples of blanchards work in an attempt to discredit him?
Don't make claims you can't back up.

>>6962572
>Data is built on evidence whether it's empirical or anecdotal. You can't simply dismiss evidence because you don't like the source it came from. Science doesn't work that way.
I don't even know how to respond to this. You don't seem to understand the scientific method.

>It does you're just to stupid to understand the evidence.
You should learn how to type before you call other people stupid. Make an actual argument for why the criticism of Blanchard's work is invalid or be quiet.

>You have no idea what you're talking about and are just repeating the same Julia Serano response to agp theory.
Thankfully I don't need to because there are many, many individuals who criticized Blanchard's work over the years.

>Not the scientific community as whole
Every major top-level establishment sided against him.

>I've heard the same tired responses from angry transbian agp trans women like yourself for years. It's truly a weak argument.
You could stop being wrong. Then people wouldn't have to correct you.

>>6962575
>Anon there are a lot of research papers being released all the time in support of such positions. Just check Zucker's paper
One or two papers that nobody reads about or has even heard of is hardly papers being releases all the time though. You can deny that most professional in the scientific community stay away from the trans subject. It's very controversial even today.

>>6962595
>He literally capitalizes ALL in his review paper on his previous research Anon
Ok if you say so anon, you can prove it to us instead of stalling though.

>Don't make claims you can't back up.
I'd say the same to you anon. :p

>>6962593
I'm done giving you (you)s until you respond to the fact that he made untenable extrapolations.

>>6962609
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/20483368_The_classification_and_labeling_of_nonhomosexual_gender_dysphorias

322-323

"Gender identity disturbance in males is always accompanied by one of two erotic anomalies. All gender dysphoric males who are not sexually oriented toward men are instead sexually oriented toward the thought or image of themselves as women."

No all caps in this one though, so you got me there.

>>6962595
>You don't seem to understand the scientific method.
Neither do you by the looks of it. lol

>You should learn how to type before you call other people stupid
Someone mad they got roasted. Also way to keep proving your point there bucko.

> Make an actual argument for why the criticism of Blanchard's work is invalid or be quiet.
Ok, 90% of the criticism against blanchards work comes from old trans lesbians who are obviously bias against it and also have no scientific background to be making such claims. It's just the opinion of some angry transbians, all theories have people who disagree. That doesn't make them invalid.

>Thankfully I don't need to because there are many, many individuals who criticized Blanchard's work over the years.

Again those many many people you're referring to are bias trans people with a bone to pick. Not creditable.

>Every major top-level establishment sided against him
>more claims without proof
This is becoming a habit of yours anon. tsk tsk

>You could stop being wrong
>you're wrong because I don't like you and I say so
Lol yeah you sure showed me alright.

>>6962619
>"Gender identity disturbance in males is always accompanied by one of two erotic anomalies. All gender dysphoric males who are not sexually oriented toward men are instead sexually oriented toward the thought or image of themselves as women."
Yes this is true though. lol what is even your argument here?

>>6962627
You haven't followed the conversation.

>>6962621
Lmao don't bother it's the same butthurt ugly transbian from last agp thread. They think they're smart because they copy and paste some other butthurt transbains critic of his theory. They can't prove any of their claims though.

>>6962629
It is true though regardless.

>>6962619
Congrats you were right about an insufficant part of all the claims here today. lol

>>6962558
No because these people are doing actual harm to those who don't know better.

>>6962641
Had you read the papers you'd know that I'm correct about the rest too.

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>>6962642
Always a shame when two people just derail a whole thread to have a pissing contest. Although to be fair idk if this thread was ever really on rails, most of it was just "am I trans?" "idk, probably".

>>6962642
not really

>>6962673
What else is there to do? Let these humanoids harm vulnerable people as much as they like? Look at the level of discourse around AGP here and on /lgbt/ as a whole. There are better resources out there, sure, but anons are not exactly inclined to seek them. Those who can only get help here.. how do you think they would do if the only voices they heard were those trying to actively undermine them?

>Blanchard is now retweeting Jungians
lol

I just wanna be over all this shit
i don't think i can actually be a woman but i do have dysphoria. i don't think i can actually really be a man either
the hormones help with the agp but...i'm still a terribly depressed NEET so what does it really matter

>>6978835
Well, you found one thing that helps. Perhaps there are other things that can help you with your other problems?

>>6954665
If I could still keep my twig and berries I'd do anything to have that body

>>6979080
idk
i don't have high hopes

>>6984768
Having low hopes is already better than having no hopes so you're on the right track. Just pick up your hopes and place them somewhere higher. Like, the top of a bookshelf.

>>6962513
>all he said was that straight transsexual or homosexual transsexual were gay men before transition which in most cases is true
What if you want to have sex with guys but only if you were a girl? Gay sex isn't hot.

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How many of you AGPers feel more aligned with a androgynous gender or are non-binary? I only get aroused by being feminine and I hate everything masculine about myself but I don't feel like a girl. #failedmale

>>6986785
>Failed
ascended

>>6986785
>feel more aligned with a androgynous gender or are non-binary
yes I think this might be me but I don't know if it's just like me being confused or internal transphobia or whatever... idk everything is so confusing :(

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>>6986867
I thought I may be trans since I don't feel like a man but I don't feel like a woman either. I read up on some non-binary stuff and really connected to it.

I'm not sure if I'm AGP or what.
Thought I was asexual for a while, before having these feelings, but I've been aroused at the thought of having a vagina and breasts before (as well as someone having sex with me as a girl), though most of the time, I want them so that I can feel more female. I don't want a penis and I don't wanna be a guy at all. I frequently have feelings of dysphoria concerning my penis, body hair, and masculine features. But I've only been feeling this way for a few months (though I have had thoughts related to this in the past).

>>6962488
just their own and upon experimenting with men irl did they find out it's not as good in irl as in their heads and go back to being trans lesbians.

Well 2 things about that. There are tons of men clueless about women's bodies, in my experience it's a coinflip on whether a guy will be any good in bed.
Secondly trans people don't often get to experience sex with a man *as* a woman, they are forced into having sex as a """trans"""" woman, which is an important distinction. No properly working bag and dealing with chasers who view you as a man and as a result try to have sex with you..as a man.

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I have felt like transitioning for the last two years now. I just recently turned 19 and went off to college and I want to transition, but my parents aren't going to accept it. Is there some way I can secretly transition during college, while still presenting in cis mode when I visit my parents? I'm afraid to wait until after college to transition, and I don't want to suffer from these feels anymore. What can I do about this?

>>6986974
>not sure if AGP
>aroused at thought of vagina and breasts, and being fucked as a woman
That's AGP senpai

>want them so you can feel more female
>Don't want to be a guy, dysphoria over dick and secondary sex characteristics
>thoughts not just recently, recurring from the past
That's gender dysphoria. You're trans. They are not mutually exclusive.

>>6987891
>felt like transitioning for two years, haven't, don't want to wait until college is over, just turned 19
Don't wait then.

>parents aren't going to accept
>secret transition
Have they said anything about it? Are you sure you couldn't approach them? You can't secretly transition for long, certainly not 3 more years. You could gradually change your presentation but hormones will do their own thing. Is there a campus health center and do they do informed consent? Is there a nearby lgbt clinic that does? Do you work part time? Do you have health insurance?

>>6987957
My mom knows I'm trans, and she is unhappy about it, but she accepts it nevertheless. My dad doesn't know, but I know he won't accept it. He has openly said stuff that is homophobic and transphobic. My family is Muslim by the way, though I personally am an atheist. My mother keeps telling me to wait until I'm done with University to transition, and she claims that I will still pass because I look similar to her genetically, but I'm not so sure I will look passable. I probably won't finish uni until I'm about 25, because I plan on going to law school. That is a long time to wait before I start transition.

As for health insurance, I'm on my parent's health insurance plan, and I know that I will get totally disowned after my dad finds out I'm trans. As for health services, I don't think my university does hrt. My university has a specific counselor who specializes in Gender Identity related problems, so I could speak to him to get referred for hrt. I also know the location of a nearby endocrinologist who does trans hrt.

I don't currently have a part time job, though I could find one if necessary.

As a side note, I met this one girl who really likes me, and I told her I'm trans and she accepts it. She has helped me with my makeup a few times, and has offered to help me when shopping for clothing.

>>6988036
>counselor
>trans-friendly endo
>Accepting female friend/possible gf
All good stuff. Pick up the job, get the referral, start hormones, have your friend help you out. Much better to transition before/during college than after. Good luck.

>>6986878
Nobody actually "feels like" anything. It's about what you want to be or like being.

>>6987957
Thanks for the input. :)

>>6988341
Thanks, but my only problem is still my family. My University tuition is about 26k a year, and my family is paying it for me. When I transition, my family will no doubt cut me off, and I will be left with students debts to pay off, whereas if I waited until after university to transition, I won't have to worry about debt. Is it really worth it to transition now? I'm just really scared, because I feel like if I transition too early it could mess with my future, but if I wait too long, I will look like a man in a dress and be haunted by these feelings forever. It's a hard dilemma.

>>6988395

Have you looked into whether your university will reissue your degree in your female name if you transition after graduation? Mine doesn't, so I've held off on taking classes until my name change. It's just not worth it if my degree's in a man's name, tbqh.

>>6988430
No, I haven't checked if the university does it. I'm still not entirely sure I can go through a momentous decision like transition yet considering all of the consequences.

>>6988368
Just because someone "wants" to be something doesn't mean they will or should be. If someone with serious asthma wants to be a firefighter then their shit out of luck they can't be nothing is going to change that. Similarly when a perverted man who gets sexual pleasure from being a woman and femininity wants to be a woman he shouldn't and can't be.

>>6989829

You can let him if that man is a young boy at the time.

>>6989997
A young boy isn't a perverted man

>>6990046

But perverted men don't grow off of trees. They start as perverted young boys sneaking around in their mothers' lingerie.

>>6990071
No those are boys whose curious fascination of the fairer sex took unhealthy turns during essential periods that would later influence the desires of the boy

>>6990085

What do they become if not perverted men then?

>>6990094
They were trutrans and they become ugly women

>>6990109

Ugly women if they started after puberty and/or have terrible genes. And how do perverted men spend their childhoods?

>>6990124
Isolated from others. They spend time in groups but are always on the edge of them

>>6990162

So they have no behavior towards female or feminine things before reaching adulthood? When does their perversion start? Should young boys who grow up to be perverted men be given assistance and guidance to transition?

>>6990192
They express the behaviors through their curiosity. It starts when their sexual urges get mixed with their curiosity. I don't care if they transition but just because they want to be women doesn't mean they will be

>>6990233

So are the trutrans women?

>>6990267
They are more women than AGP people are, but if they didn't transition young they won't really be women

>>6990294

So what makes trutrans women if their fascination with the opposite sex was twisted into a desire to imitate?

>>6990326
As long as it wasn't sexual its cool.

>>6990364

So are you AGP or a cis woman?

>>6990419
Trash

>>6989829
Why do you think someone trans can't also be AGP?

>>6990562
I didn't say they can't be just that they shouldn't transition

>>6990572
Why shouldn't they transition if they're trans? Gender dysphoria is still very real for them. Transitioning helps alleviate it. Heck, most people stop experiencing AGP fantasies after transitoning.

>>6990580
Thats because they're too far down the rabbit hole and have to accept their new life

>>6990585
I don't mean to offend you but that sounds nonsensical to me. If there is something you can do to improve your condition then why shouldn't you do it?

>>6990580
anyone who thinks a*p trans people shouldn't transition has never actually read the theories they espouse
most transitioners are a*p by the strict blanchardian definition and have excellent outcomes
it's really disgusting that blanchardians use those theories to try and stop the bulk of people who can have far better lives as their neurological sexes from transitioning
t. 'hsts'/'transkid'/'trutrans' ftm who has more blanchardian beliefs than anyone else he's ever met outside of /lgbt/ but isn't actually a supporter

Does anyone here know if it is possible to have some form of SRS that would result in having a penis and vagina, whereas I am MAAB?

>>6990597
no, that's only possible on the ftm side

>>6990594
What's especially funny is that Blanchard is very much opposed to people transitioning before they're adults so the whole "if you didn't transition as a kid you shouldn't ever transition" line is directly opposed to what he thinks to be ethical.

>>6990597

The scrotum can be turned into a hole. I saw some person like that in some kind of porn photo.

>>6988395
You have a threshold to reach before it becomes obvious that you're transitioning. At the very least, start antiandrogens only, though that will likely make you depressed, and delaying oestrogen will reduce the amount of feminisation you will ultimately have; still vastly better than doing nothing.

Student debt is better than not passing. Your body is permanent and affects every aspect of your life. It's not as simple as that, but it's worth thinking about.

>>6986878
What's that from?

>Oh good I'm not trans
>freak out about hair on hands while at work
>"Oh god no my body is becoming more masculine"
>shave hands
>fap
>feel weird that my hands now don't have any hair on them at all
>Don't feel trans at all

I fucking hate this fetish

>>6995278
Anon, fetishes don't make you freak out like that.

>>6995859
I get this response all the time but I just don't feel like a girl.

I was biting my hair off while I couldn't shave it sure, but I don't feel like a girl and I feel hormones would be a mistake.

>>6995879
Maybe it would be a mistake, but something is clearly going on and you can't attribute this to you just having a fetish.

>>6995879
Omg r u me? I do anything to get ride of hair, I once burnt most of my leg hair away because I hate it

>>6995892
and what makes you so certain?

>>6995901
real funny

>>6995907
Because there are many, many other fetishes and none of them work like this.

>>6995879
>don't feel like a girl.
the "feeling like a girl" is a meme
all that matters is dysphoria and desire

>>6995931
Okay so enlighten me oh enlightened one.

>>6995935
I don't feel like my male body is "wrong" and i don't have a constant desire to be female.

>>6995935
I mean, what does it even mean to feel like a woman? Is there anything to it beside desiring a certain body? All else is stereotypes.

>>6995939
>Okay so enlighten me oh enlightened one.
I don't know much more than yourself. I can't give you an answer because I don't have one. I just know enough to know what the answer isn't. It could be that you're not trans but something is definitely wrong with you above and beyond having a fetish because generally speaking fetishes don't cause you to feel that way.

>>6995951
well I thought "ew this is gross my body's getting more masculine" but that's strange because I don't have a problem with my body, and now my arm hair is gone and after I fapped I was like "why'd I do that"

I dunno what I want but I hate my sex drive and all the time I waste constantly coming back to this general

>>6995972
Disclaimer: I don't know if what you're experiencing is similar to what I'm experiencing. I'm not saying this is definitely dysphoria.

In my experience dysphoria comes and goes. I can be completely fine for weeks (usually when I'm focused on work or somesuch), get hit by The Feels, then spend weeks obsessing over them to the point where I can't do much else. Eventually I feel better and the cycle begins anew. Masturbating to AGP fantasies tends to fill me with so much disgust that I go back to denying anything's up and briefly hold on to the fantasy that if I just don't think about these things the feelings will go away. They always come back, stronger.

Now your issue could be something else and only appear similar superficially but you should seek therapy either way because it is not going to resolve by itself.

>>6996001
Could you define what "The Feels" are for you?

I just obsess over them by constantly talking about my gender issues online at places like this one, and masturbate a lot (although I've been trying to fap less it didn't work). Lately I've been pretty good about fapping but before I'd lay on the couch in contemplation. I've never been in disgust with AGP, but I hate having thoughts like "hey your trans" and "start your transition already" in my faps, like my AGP self is trying to convince my non-aroused self that I'm trans. I hate it.

>>6986785
>How many of you AGPers feel more aligned with a androgynous gender

Thats me famalam.

>I only get aroused by being feminine

This is more or less how I feel. I want to be feminine but not necessarily female. I fantasize about being a femboy in a gay relationship with another femboy way more than I fantasize about being a woman. Not counting those fantasies where I'm a transgirl because I see all transgirls as fundamentally between genders.

Admittedly, I did experience more obvious AGP fantasies early on, but they've lessened over time and with acceptance of the fact that I'm just not attractive enough to transition happily.

>but I don't feel like a girl

Neither do I. Sometimes I want to be one, but its less that I want to be female and more that I want to be unmale.

I've actually grown to like being an androgynous weirdo. To be honest, I think all I've ever wanted was to be a cute transgirl or an uke-esque yaoi looking dude.

>#failedmale

More like improved male

>>6996018
Intense episodes of sadness about not being a woman and/or feeling the way that I do. I, too, am compelled to try and talk things through with other people because if I don't I just spend all of my time trapped in my own head contemplating how hopeless my situation is. I oscillate endlessly between "I can't be trans because of REASONS fuck why do I feel like this?" and "Fuck I'm trans and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it why me?".

I may be reading too much into what you wrote but it honestly sounds like you're trying to masturbate these feelings away because you're more comfortable with the idea of being AGP than being trans. Not saying you're trans, but that at the very least you're scared of being trans and try to mask that fear.

>>6996166
/lgbt/ needs to be split into /gay/ and /trans/

Then the number of generals would be more acceptable

>>6995935
>dysphoria
I still have issue understanding this word, especially in the context of gender. Could someone kindly explain?

>>6999021
>feelings of detachment, pain, anger, similar, with your sex
>desire to be the other sex
probably more i guess

>>6952913
what movie?

>>7000295

La piel que habito/The skin I live in.

If 4chan, inshallah, dies like some people say it will I'd like you to know that some of you are pretty cool people.

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Do specific things trigger your AGP? For me it's certain women that I'd like to look like and certain clothing.

I just wish my AGP would disappear or at least get a little better. I'm tired of having these thoughts in my head.

>>6986785
i can relate to this, i like the idea of there being more legit and care free very androgynous or even feminine males but have no interest in being a actual girl or them being trans/a girl

I'm very femboy master-race desu.

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>>7002102
>I just wish my AGP would disappear or at least get a little better. I'm tired of having these thoughts in my head.

I've started having these incredibly detailed and vivid dreams and day dreams about being a girl (nothing new here) and explaining to my dream-boyfriend all the ways I want him to fuck me, going over each part step-by-step...
but my cock-blocking, blue-balling brain stops before we actually get to the part were we have sex.
Look, brain, you had to be a collosal twat and give me a fetish I can never ever experience... could you at least let me have my fantasies in peace and not end them prematurely?

(Yeah brain, the fantasies were so hot, but this bullshit has to end.)

>>6996140
I have not had a single episode of sadness over not being a girl. Funny enough my sadness comes from the times where I want to be a girl not because I'm not a girl, but because those desires conflict with who I am as a person.

I mean you're right of me being scared of being trans because being trans isn't who I am.

>>6996140
>there's absolutely nothing I can do about it why me?
Don't remind me… this shit isn't fair.

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>>7003065
>Look, brain, you had to be a collosal twat and give me a fetish I can never ever experience
but anon....

>>7003065

>13 months into HRT
>had dreams of my mom becoming supportive and other transition related stuff
>still not one dream of me as a girl with a boyfriend

I don't know if it's because I have this giant teddy bear I cuddle with and pretend is my boyfriend so my brain has been fooled into thinking, "I've got my relationship needs met so no need to dream about it" or what.

>>7005348
They don't make me a girl, Anon. I'll never be in a straight relationship as the girl.
This is bullshit and not fair.
>>7005820
But do you dream of having a girlfriend instead, then?
Most of the time my being-a-girl dreams aren't sexual, and now they're about DESCRIBING how I want to have sex instead of experiencing it. If that makes sense.
Like I'm cockblocking myself in my dreams……

>>7006865

You know, now that I think about it, I do have dreams where I'm attracted to certain women, but no real girlfriend dreams. I remember in one dream there was a girl I liked a lot, but I decided not to date her unless I had the approval of a boyfriend I had in the dream but that I hadn't been shown and only if she would love him too. Must be because I'm biscum.