I'm trans but too old (30) and look a bit too manly and

>>6858793
>Do you think there are girls out there who'd want to date a girl who looks and presents 100% like a guy?
>looks and presents 100% like a guy?

Ummmm, yeah? Most girls date guys, actually.

>>6858793
So you experience gender dysphoria, but you've decided never to transition because you're 30, tall, and have many masculine features.

Is that right? And you're considering not even coming out, but actually just hoping for a partner who'll accept your feminine interests?

>>6858793
you'll be a lot better off transitioning at 30 when trans visibility is relatively positive than at 45 when the detransitioned transtrenders are ruining everything

>>6858793
I think it's kind of creepy. I don't know your story but this is just how I see it from my point of view. If a guy says he's a girl but he looks like a guy, he dresses like a guy, he acts like a guy, and he's not interesting in anything that occupies daily female life: Then he's a a regular man.

A man that is whiny and bitching isn't that attractive either.

It's the biggest reason I don't date trannies because life is too short to deal with that noise.

>>6863212
Wouldn't the biggest reason rather be that they don't throw themselves at you?

>closeted 18y/o tranny been on hrt for around a year
>can't quite pass but look like a girly twink with boobs
>dating a gay leaning bi girl
>she sees me entirely as a girl
>she constantly pressures me to be out of the closet
>but nah I live in Texas and the visibly trans life ain't for me

It's alright

>>6858793
>I'm trans but too old (30) and look a bit too manly and tall to transition.
Dude you cant fight this, there is no way out other than suicide. If you keep repressing you will only break down and transition when you are 40+ and be a hell of a lot worse off

>>6863120
Yes you summed up my intentions.
I just don't see the point. I don't like what I see in the mirror right now, but I wouldn't be able to cope socially with being obviously trans. And I have the gut feeling that at least right now there's a slight chance I'd be physically attractive to somebody.
I understand that you have sacrificed a lot to make a hard decision, and me making a different decision feels like I'm second guessing yours and putting your "I had no other choice" statement under scrutiny. But everyone's circumstances are different, and transition is just not for me at this point. I'm pretty sure that if you thought you had no other choice, that was the case for you. But I still want a relationship with someone who accepts me from who I have decided to be. I just don't know if I have a chance though.
>>6863162
I'm not going to transition at 45 either, precisely because it's the same but worse.
>>6863212
Yes, that's what I thought, girls would find it creepy.
I just don't see how I'm whiny and bitching, but ok... or are you implying all girls are whiny and bitching?
Calling me just a regular man felt bad though. That's just my appearance and how I was brought up, but that's not how I feel. It's not easy to explain.
And as I said it's not something I really would want to explain to my partner, so I don't understand why you'd have to deal with any noise.

>>6858793
I used to sort of date a guy like that, but he didn't tell me about his trans feelings early on. Dumped his ass because I just didn't see him as a proper man anymore, even if he never planned on presenting female/transitioning.
I'm trans myself btw, so call me a hypocrite.

>>6863295
my point is that there is no '30 is too late so i'll never transition'. you will eventually transition, the question is do you want to be a woman in your 30s or your 50s?

>>6863282
>Dude you cant fight this, there is no way out other than suicide.
If you keep repeating this shit, more kids are going to kill themselves. There's always a way out other than suicide.

>>6863295
You'll have to realize that every trans girl is going to find being with you like looking into a hellish funhouse mirror. They will find out.

And your wall of text indicates that there's no point in trying. You can find plenty of cis women who'll raise the children of a man with feminine interests until you commit suicide.

>>6863345
It's not really a wall of text. It's kind of sad you couldn't digest a few sentences. I don't really understand why I have to kill myself if I can't have my way. That's kind of childish, and you sound bitter.

>>6862447
Until they start criticizing you for thinking and reacting like a girl and want to break up with you.

>>6858793
I feel like I'm in a similar spot in the sense that I couldn't really bear the cost of transitioning and not passing. Don't have any advice to give you but I hope everything works out for you. The other posters are being needlessly antagonistic.

how tall, pham?

>>6863775
191 cm

https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42#.tpwmcly1c

Read this, OP. I still don't know if I'm trans, but this made me feel a bit better about not transitioning and understanding how that'll affect my life.

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>>6865105
Thank you. This has been an incredibly good read and I can relate so much.
It also made me remember when I used twitter a few years ago how terrible it felt when I saw things like "boys are gross" all over the place. But that's another subject.

>>6865105
>>6865637

Fuck's sake, this again. Don't listen to a fucking egg about what it's like to be an out trans woman. You know who knows what it's like to be a trans woman? Fucking trans women, not silly little fucks who are too scared to come out of the closet and lose their male privilege. Grow some fucking balls.

>>6865681
I'm pretty sure she is talking about what it's like to be a closeted trans woman, not an out one. To me it looks like the one without empathy and no clue is you.
I'm not you. I bet I've done a lot of things that you're not "brave" enough to do, and what about it? It's all relative to your circumstances.
If you wanna transition, go ahead. Don't try to force me to.
Also funny how you used the term egg when it's so perfectly spotlighted in the article how toxic it is.

>>6865814
They're talking about why they don't want to come out based on what they THINK it's going to be like as a trans woman. No one in public really gives a fuck if you're trans, it just doesn't matter. I don't give a fuck about a sanctimonious EGG who writes articles furthering dangerous ideas about staying in the closet, whilst shitting on the lgbt community. She doesn't get to keep all of the privileges of being a man whilst getting the privileges of being a woman too. It doesn't work like that.

This shit kills us. In five years, you're going to look far worse than you do now, notice your life is slipping away, and you'll kill yourself cause you were too much of a pussy to just get on hormones and transition. Staying in the closet KILLS people. Just fucking do it and stop finding excuses

Please read this:
http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

It is your future if you try to repress "forever".

>>6869842
>>6869859
Not that person but don't act like transitioning when you can't look even remotely like a woman does not carry a terrible cost. The world is not just. Sometimes there is no good answer.

>>6869937
But there are better answers. I bet she doesn't look bad, what she's describing is (shock) dysphoria induced paranoia

>>6870060
I mean, okay, there are people who can look half-decent but think they can't because they have no faith in themselves and are afraid of the consequences. Cheering them on is good and right. At the same time there are people who got dealt a hand with which there is little to do.

>>6869842
So your point is people die if they don't transition? How retarded is that, when it's clear by this thread that there are alive people out there who didn't transition?
In the end, caring so much about looks is shallow. That is such a minuscule part of life, and you want people to end it all because of it?
Also you sound angry.
>No one in public really gives a fuck if you're trans
Maybe in San Francisco/the USA. Try other countries, Mr. Angolcentric.

>>6870285
>In the end, caring so much about looks is shallow. That is such a minuscule part of life, and you want people to end it all because of it?
I defended you before but you know as well as I that this is not "just" about appearance. Seeing is believing, and to be seen as something you are not hurts.

>>6870315
Precisely, and people won't see me as a woman even if I try to look like one, so it's going to hurt anyway.

>>6870440
You know yourself better than we do but do make sure that you *actually* stand no real chance of passing. A lot of people underestimate themselves in that regard tue to a mixture of fear and insecurity.

>>6870465
This.

Op, I'm swearing a lot, but I just want you to do this. You have to, and you'll be better off if you transition, I know you will. Please, for your sake, please at least go on hormones for ages, see how much better you look, and just take the plunge. I really believe that you can. You can do it :)

>>6858793
Well I'm a passing, quite well off in terms of transition transgirl who is in love with someone who's pre-everything and might never do anything and still see them as a girl, despite them not looking nor sounding like it. (They're screwed due to a medical condition and they live in the bible belt.)

>>6863724
you mean acting like a whiny bitch
most people don't like whiny bitches

>>6870615
>I just want you to do this. You have to
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>6870615
t. born in 2000

Not all trans people transition. Some repress and transition very late in life, some kill themselves, some just live with the depression.
There's no real way to know how many people fall into the latter two groups. There's no way of knowing if the lattermost group is a preferable alternative to a subpar transition.

>>6863275
You're gonna regret this someday, sweetheart.

>>6873506
Regret what?

>>6873439
That's a naive person trying to be helpful and supportive.

>>6870440
Anon, I don't know if someone else has mentioned this, but low-dose hormones definitely can help with dysphoria even in the case of non-transitioners

>>6870060
There are some objective values, like height and build - 6'5" is not exactly what I'd describe as passable, ever, unless you have pretty much every other feminine feature accentuated enough to back it up with.

>>6873696
I actually think height is overrated as a factor. If you look like a huge woman then people might know you are trans but since your body otherwise looks womanly it ought ward off dysphoria. You can be oversized and attractive.

>>6873706
even 5 years earlier is too late to get a womanly body

>>6873706
But a transgender woman's body with HRT starting a non-insignificant time after puberty will always have some visible masculine traits. The thing is that being overly tall is another masculine trait, and an impossible one to hide or de-accentuate at that - you will always stand out like a sore thumb.

>>6873807
Standing out is not the end of the world if you otherwise look close enough.

>>6873825
do you stand out?

>>6873842
I'm the worst person to ask since I'm one of the people who actually have no chance in hell of passing. I'm built like a truck. Enormous, protruding ribcage. Wide shoulders. Narrow hips. An army man stereotype.

Had I a chance I'd take it. Over the time I have spent on this board I've noticed that there are lots and lots of people who could look decent or even great but think that they are in my situation. Some of them are eventually convinced by others to transition and end up doing well. I'd happily trade places with many of them.

I'm not saying you (or whoever made the thread) ought transition regardless of how they look. That would make me an hypocrite. I'm trying to make sure that they accurately assess themselves so that they don't throw away their shot at happiness.

If I could look like a plain oversized woman I'd transition, sure.

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>>6865681
>lose their male privilege

Dis faggot serious?

>>6873855
legit though if you think lots and lots of people overestimate how bad they are, why are you confident that your estimate is correct?

>>6873892
I can't be completely confident in that, you're right. It is just that I'm built like some sort of a platonic ideal of exaggerated cartoon manliness.

Youre just a straight dude with some effeminate and childish interests- theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make you trans.

>>6873986
What are you basing this on? OP has told us practically nothing about themselves.

>>6872514
I don't mean acting like a whiny bitch. They will tell you your general thought patterns remind them of being with another girl, and that sex reminds them of being with another girl instead of a guy. Then, most often, they will tell you that they need a real man to make them feel like a woman.

>>6873986
I'm not a "dude", I don't feel like one. Maybe you don't understand because you are the dude.
Also, I'm not straight, not that it has anything to do with me being trans.

>>6873996
This is exactly what I'm afraid of, I have a hunch this would happen. Straight girls would end up noticing and I don't look physically attractive to lesbian girls.
I've tried with gay guys but they just want sex and it never turns into a real relationship so I end up feeling used. I think it's also because I'm a "top" but not really that dominant or manly and these bottoms don't feel 100% comfortable like that. I really dislike bottom/top dynamics, that is not for me, I just choose top because it feels a bit more comfortable but it's stupid, I want a horizontal relationship (rambling, sorry, but this bit about gay culture throws me off)

>>6863724

Not sure about this, AGPs tend to have more masculine personalities, even the beta ones, compared to the average ciswoman. Although there may be some unusual for a cishet male traits that a woman could pick up on.

>>6858793
>but too old (30)
okay

>>6875514
I'm just going by my experience with girls.

>>6875514
Why do you think the case we're discussing is AGP?

>>6875639

Is age 30 and hasn't transitioned, masc features, likes girls.

>>6875705
You are going to have to explain how those three things have any relationship with being AGP at all.
You're just a piece of shit throwing the term around to look down on people who don't fit your perfect view of how a trans person should be.

>>6875759

People with these traits get lumped into the AGP category. I'm actually pro trans and AGP myself, I just find the two type dichotomy seems to fit alot of MtFs. One could also argue that we're really arguing androphilic vs gynephilic transwomen and leave the AGP moniker out of it.

>>6875820
Just for your information I'm the OP and I have tried crossdressing, as an adult all I could feel was joy and amazement(first time I was literally jumping around my room with the biggest smile I've ever had), I didn't felt aroused at all. In fact I had planned to masturbate because I had seen it was so common in hentai and stuff, but it felt just wrong. All I could see in the mirror was cute, not sexy, and something that reflected me better than my normal image.
I had also crossdressed a few times as a kid but of course I didn't get aroused then either.
That doesn't mean I don't have sexual fantasies where I'm a girl, but don't biological girls have those too? I'm not being aroused by the thought of being a girl, I'm being aroused by the thought of sex.

>>6876001
(PS: Just to clarify, I have nothing against AGP, it's just that I've seen it used to label trans people as fake fetishists)

>>6876001
Sorry OP, your not off the hook yet. AGP has a psychological component and a potential for arousal. So being enthralled by your girlself when crossdressing with no arousal is still AGP. The idea is that your in a relationship with yourself as a woman and your so psyched to bring her to life and spend time with her.

If the sexual fantasies as a girl involve you and your partner, thats totally fine, but if they involve just being a girl in general than thats distinctly AGP.

>>6873706
I agreed with you until my tactless friend decided to say something about my height and I'm only 5'10".

>>6875759
You're the one who's painting AGP in a negative light pham

>John, a 50 year-old genetic male, medical research scientist, married (23 years), father of three children aged 20, 17 and 7, phoned me after experiencing a panic attack severe enough to require emergency attention from paramedics at the airport on his way to give a presentation at a conference. John gave me only his first name and informed me that I was the first to be told what he was about to tell me. He said he was "gender dysphoric" and that he was "desperate." Feelings that were once "controllable through sheer force of will," had increased to where he now was having protracted periods where he would close his office door, lie on the floor and weep quietly while curled up in the fetal position, holding his genitals in pain.

>>6877529
How the fuck do you even keep it repressed that long? I can't even imagine. There's no way in a million years I would have ever made it to my mid 20's if I didn't transition when I did. But this guy was married for longer than the age it took for me to transition.

>>6877959
Yeah and how old are you now?

>>6877993
I'm 26 now, why?

>>6878004
then I would expect someone like you to understand, when you get bombarded with the underageb&s on this board who say stuff like "omg how could you possibly make it through puberty, your not trans if you did!!"
our world (I'm almost 26 now myself) is insanely different than a 16 year olds - I can't imagine the difference between ours and a 50 year old's

>>6873506
Why?

>>6878021
Yeah, you're right. I hope I didn't offend, it wasn't my intention. I was kind of crass in that post.

>>6876432
Fuck off.

>>6878057
nah it's cool. i just get #triggered by all the youngins more than i should

>>6878807
there's nothing wrong with being agp, friendo

>>6878021

You wanna know why the hons could keep it bottled up so long?

In the past transgender advocacy was very weak. The media wasn't pushing it, governments weren't pushing it, internet trans resources were poor. Homophobia/transphobia among friends, family and coworkers was very common and wasn't shamed at all.

>>6879698
And yet people still managed to transition anyway.

>>6879719

Absolutely they did, but only the most feminine severely dysphoric androphilic ones would take a chance on it.

>>6873990
They're a TERF

One of my former best friends was a TERF. She was a good (fairweather) pal, but the closer I got to transition, the more we pulled apart. I trusted her and confided in her about gender things that I didn't tell other people. Eventually she says "you're a crossdressing male. They exist." My take was that if you have to assure me that your presumed identity of me actually exists... but it's impossible for me to be trans (because that doesn't exist?) then after a bit, you're just believing what you want.

She was a bit out there though, I think maybe she wanted to date me.

>>6875820
>One could also argue that we're really arguing androphilic vs gynephilic transwomen and leave the AGP moniker out of it
I see no reason not to do this

AGP to me seems best explained as a symptom of gender dysphoria. I say this as an androphilic mtf who frequently crossdressed WAY before puberty and experienced AGP (prior to transitioning).

>>6878021
Nice to see this empathy expressed. If there is one group who should understand older transitioners, it's fellow transitioners.

Another perspective on this, aside from the lack of exposure to trans issues, is that a contributing factor to repression can be a focus on other types of success. Basically reasoning "I can't be a woman, but if I become a very successful man, I should be happy enough." My repression got me through til like 24, and a big part of what fueled it, aside from not knowing about this stuff much while younger, was a fixation with success and perfecting my male life.

What ultimately got me to transition was thinking about how long I could hold out. I came to realize that I couldn't see a future for myself as a man unless MAYBE I became something like a president or a billionaire... and even then I would need to come out. The thought that I could pass away and nobody would know that I was not that cis male all along was too much for me.

>>6880188
I was a gender-nonconforming kid throughout my childhood, everyone thought I was gay. I am androphilic and always have been. Even I didn't transition until 25. Transitioning is fucking scary, and it's even scarier the earlier your birth year was. Being born in the late 80s kinda sucks as far as being trans goes, because you're so close to the point where trans acceptance began to go mainstream (if you can call it that, but it's certainly a lot better than before), yet still so far away. Now I'm in my upper 20's, pass, have a boyfriend, and all is good.

It's really not the end of the world if it takes you a bit longer to transition. Waiting until middle-age, yeah, that sucks. But if you start at least relatively young-ish, you still have so much of your life ahead of you. Of course, having the resources to pass (good bone structure, money for FFS, etc.) definitely helps. I won't sugarcoat that part.

It took me a while to get over the fact that I lost out on so much of my youth. I look back at it and it fucking kills me that kids get to transition before they fucking start high school these days and it's no problem. But that's just the way it is. I was born too early for that. You can't mourn the past forever.

Oh yeah, and all this "if you don't transition before 20 then you're AGP" nonsense needs to die. I mean, sure, I don't know any other straight trans women like myself who transitioned after their 20's, but whether someone is androphilic or gynophilic, whether they transition at 18 or 25 or whatever is determined by a huge amount of factors that it's not fair for random people on the internet to judge.

>>6880543
I agree with the message of this post. That AGP is this harsh ultimate insult hurts though.

>>6880656
It shouldn't, but you know people use it that way because of that retard Blanchard. In my opinion all his theory is trash and we should find a new term for the arousal part.

>>6882311
I'm with you.

>>6880656
>>6882311
AGP isn't an insult, and it never was. TERFs will throw anything they want until something gets a reaction, and people have been conditioned to react to AGP