How do we make trannies more acceptable in society, lgbt? I know

Figure out a way to undo puberty.

>>6706881
So, HRT?

>>6706852
I think it's mostly a matter of time. What really irks people is when they see a "man in a dress" or a "butch lesbian" pretending to be a dude. If the average transgirls passed people would be so much more accepting. Especially when the operations regarding your genitals become better.

stop having your fag parades, stop pushing this shit on children, stop acting like everyone in every room you walk in NEEDS to know you cut your dick off like ur the queen of an insanity ward, and just plain fuck off and keep your lifestyle to yourself

>>6706918
HRT doesn't undo puberty. It gives you another puberty of the opposite sex, so now you are an adult that survived two puberties and now has characteristics of both sexes. It's up to your genetics after that which ones are more prominent, which I think is the biggest problem people have with trannies.

A cis male never has to prove his masculinity and a cis woman never has to prove her femininity, they are unmistakable. It's the inbetweeners that at least every tranny is at some point and sometimes a tranny never makes it to the finish line that people cringe at when they see them.

>>6706978
>A cis male never has to prove his masculinity and a cis woman never has to prove her femininity, they are unmistakable
i agree w this but there are some here who believe cis fems are clockable

Seeing is believing. As tech advances and trannies look better and better society will be more accepting of them.

>>6707017
All my fiancé had to do to 'get clocked' was know a lot about trans issues.

People in her lectures thought there was no other reason to know it.

>>6706968
Most trans don't do that tho, just the attention whores who make it harder for the rest.

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>>6706852
They're becoming more acceptable through sheer exposure. It's just not quick, or pretty. The process of public acceptance is just gross and fucked up because people are gross and fucked up to one another.

Trans people are in the commodity stage right now, same as how the token gays of yesteryear were portrayed. Progressive, and even conservative people want that trans friend as an accessory. It allows them to participate in trendy conversations about things like this from a position of faux authority.

People are never going to be able to handle ayy lamo if they can't handle gender ambiguity.

I suppose trans is a disorder in that our minds don't align with our bodies, we are far better off on sex hormones of our brain gender. Gender is a spectrum though, just like sexuality, but culture has pushed one track gender roles hard for a very very long time. People are uncomfortable with the unknown.

>>6708842
"brain gender"
"gender is a spectrum"

Trannies are delusional.

>>6708854
Yeah heavens forbid people learn about human variation outside of what their holy scriptures from thousands of years ago tell them.

>>6706968
This is literally the most brain dead shit I've ever heard and it is 100% an opinion formed from sitting on the internet.

Actually go outside, faggot.

>>6706852
Make it illegal to go out in girl clothes in public unless you look like a girl.

>>6706968
>>6708928

This is a valid point, not everyone has exposure to openly or known lgbt people where they are.

Then unfortunately their only exposure to lgbt is what they happen to see in pride parades. Which usually consist of degenerate gay bar/club goers, who have that lifestyle of going out too much to those places where it becomes their life.

Unfortunately, they will never tone it down, because they tie the gay bar/club scene with the orientation. Which isn't entirely fair to the average joe, who is legitimately just a regular person.

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>>6706968
no

>>6708854
Yes, there's a spectrum of gender types your brain can develop as, just like there's a spectrum of almost every other mental trait. Are you still in high school?

>>6706852
>How do we get the normies to stop seeing us as freaks and faggots?
Pass.

>>6708896
The holy scriptures of basic biology.

>>6706926
>If the average transgirls passed people would be so much more accepting
You see this is exactly the reason time is against you. You're going to see more and more ambushes and hons like Bruce jenner and people will associate trannies with them

>>6709524
"Basic" means its an oversimplified version that doesn't represent reality.

>>6706852
I think we need to address it as a disorder. You don't shame people for being ill, and if you do, you're an asshole. We need to spread awareness and fund research on how to make feelings of gender dysphoria go away. If you cut those feelings, (most) people won't go and mutilate their bodies. I think most people don't realize this is a legitimate mental illness; they just think it's a weird fetish or obsession that some people have.

>>6706978
>A cis male never has to prove his masculinity
good fucking joke. the bar for men being taken seriously is much higher than "has a penis"

Exposure + progressive discourse + time

No way around it.

>>6713787
THIS

honestly I hate the new push to "remove" it as a mental illness. it's fucked up. i hate how people put words in my mouth saying shit like "it's not being trans that's the problem! it's society!" fuck that so much

just give me my titty pills or find a way to cure me and leave me alone pls

>>6718056
b-but it is s-society

That's the thing. People don't leave us alone because there's not enough tolerance for trans people, because being trans is deminozed left and right.

That's also why i don't agree with the mental illness thing -that's even more stigma.
We don't need people pitying us. Fuck that.

>>6718122
it's not society, it's the fact that i hate living in a forever male body despite having one, and that no matter what happens there is literally nothing i can do to fix it. the only thing that can be done is dull the pain a little but i will never ever get over it, and to pretend like it's somehow society's fault that i feel this way is nonsensical

>>6718122
mental illness makes it more legitimate and people more willing to tolerate it. and let's be serious it is a mental illness. if nothing else, coping with having cross-sex feelings creates serious mental stress

"It's just how I wanna be so deal with it", while this attitude isn't wrong per se, nobody will feel compelled to cooperate with that. it'd be nice if everyone just let everyone else do what they want but you're living in a dream world if you think that will ever happen

what would be ideal is if somebody could prove that there's a physical aspect to it, like oh trannies just have this thing develop incorrect at this phase of brain growth, then it would be legitimized and accepted almost universally overnight. But it doesn't look like that's going to happen. There's a bunch of theories and studies but none have been accepted to date which doesn't bode well.

>>6718131
I'm not saying it's all society's fault, but transphobia sure doesn't help. For instance, if transphobia was just a marginal thing I think most trans people would decide to come out and transition even if they knew they wouldn't end up passing, because then at least they'd get to be a little bit more like they would ideally like to be. Intolerance limits people's self expression, is what I'm saying.
Also how do you know what will be possible in the future? Technology keeps getting better, who knows what tools will be available to you in 10-15 years.

>>6718140
I really don't think there's any reason to label it a mental illness though. I mean if we do, then we'd have to classify any physical condition that makes your body not like you would want it, and therefore causes you to feel distress- to be a mental illness too. Eg missing a limb, or even being fat or whatever..
Like, why would we call it a mental illness instead of just, idk, wanting to change our bodies and be able to express ourselves however we want?

Also i'm not talking about a dream world, i'm talking about a world where there's tolerance. I think that, just like we went from primitive societies to modern first world cultures, we've still got some way to go in that direction. We haven't figured it all out yet, is what i'm trying to say.

As far as the biological basis thing goes, personally I'm skeptical that we're going to find something like that, but ofc i could be proven wrong. But the thing is that we dont NEED that. We just need tolerance and the right of self determination. Other people shouldn't give a shit about what we decide to do to our bodies. That's really about it

>>6718177
if i make it that long. the reality is i would never feel comfortable living as a pseudowoman hon just because more people would be ok with hugboxing me

>>6718242
Fuck that, anon. You think other people aren't pseudopeople? Do you think other people have some sort of core self identity thing deep down their souls or something?
We're all just struggling to define ourselves- trans people and cis people alike. We all are broken and fragmented and don't make sense. Whatever.
Normalcy doesn't mean shit.
You just do you, anon.

>>6718268
even if I accepted your interpretation, the existence of other pseudopeople wouldn't prevent me from being a pseudowoman myself.

see this is probably the fundamental difference that I will never truly understand about many transpeople. "doing me" isn't some grand statement. being some fake woman hon isn't pleasing to me, and it is completely detached from any kind of society or other people. i truly don't understand how people playing along or not has any relevance

>>6718286
My point is that there's nothing wrong in being 'pseudo'-whatever, since pseudo itself doesn't mean anything when talking about identity. We all can only _act_ as ourselves. That may be a subtle point but so is what we're talking about.
As for the rest, I mean, i dont know you, but I'd say that a good strategy is to change what we can and accept what we can't. I'm not saying that's easy, but on the upside there's probably a lot that you can do

>be normal person who isn't an annoyingly political idiot
>be open about being trans to a reasonable extent
>everyone who gets to know you will start having a more positive outlook towards trans people overall and will partially spread that outlook to some of their friends/family members/acquaintances
>???
>profit

>>6718321
of course there's nothing "wrong" with it, but there's also nothing wrong with not having arms, but that wouldn't make me suddenly ok with not having arms

>>6718335
Are you ever going to start speaking English?

>>6718343
thanks for correcting the record!

>>6718140
That depends entirely on the culture and how mental illness is viewed. In the west, it immediately means you're insane, delusional and a threat to everyone's safety. Most of the vehemently anti trans groups in the west insist that it is a mental illness and therefore illegitimate and unacceptable. They conflate it with shit like pedophillia and schizophrenia and make a mockery of all three conditions in the process. Have you even seen all the assholes saying shit like "trannies don't need 'rights', they need to be institutionalized" or other dehumanizing shit? That is the majority opinion here. Having it solidified as a mental illness won't bring any kind of real social acceptance, just condescension, faux sympathy and people treating us like disposable science projects.

>>6718349
yeah and making those people believe it's a lifestyle choice will make them accept it and say it's a-ok ;^)

>>6718335
Yeah but amputees don't go around calling themselves 'fake people'.
I think the language you use hints at a certain negativity and deep-rooted fatalism you may have towards the whole thing.
Read my post again. Accept what you can't and change what you can.

>>6718349
This

>>6706852
>How do we make trannies more acceptable in society, lgbt?

They're already perfectly acceptable.

I think what you mean to ask is, "how to we make heterosexual people shut up?" And that's easy. Cause they mental anguish. The more pain someone is in, the less likely they are to open their mouth. Getting them fired for being Christian, etc. ought to do the trick.

>>6718361
I don't accept it and never will though. I don't get over negative things of any significance. You're essentially telling a depressed person to "smile more and do things you love :)". My pain is caused by a real medical condition that has caused me to have a fucked up brain, and you're essentially telling me just to stop being sad about it because I can't control it.

>>6718366
No i'm not, I'm telling you to maybe change your outlook on things a little bit and work on yourself.
Depression isn't easy to deal with, but it's possible. Trust me, i know, i suffered from depression for years myself

>>6718360
People already believe it is both a lifestyle choice and a mental illness. The lifestyle being a product of the mental illness, which gives them more reason to justify stigmatizing it and making life more awful for us in an attempt to "morally mandate" us out of existence. You can thank feminists and social conservatives for that.

You're delusional if you don't think that society has largely been cruel and barbaric to people suffering from a presumed mental illness.

>>6718384
Quit responding to yourself you worthless Christian dog shit.

>>6718384
Yeah and by vehemently claiming it isn't a mental illness (because that would be BAD!) we only serve to perpetuate the stigma against mental illnesses, many of which surprise surprise also come with being trans

>>6718394
Those words don't mean anything you worthless. The post has to at least be understandable, at least if you put a whole lot of thought into deciphering it. If no matter how hard someone tries to understand your post they won't because it never meant anything to begin with, then you just look like a mumbling bitch you stupid heterosexual highschool-mindset adult child.

wtf I hate words now !!

I can't even tell who's trolling anymore.

>inb4 (you)

It's not about politics, it's about whether or not being trans fits the criteria for a mental illness.

Personally i don't think it does, in itself. Dysphoria could maybe be classified as such, but not being trans.

I don't know if it works this way in the Muslim world, or the Jewish one, or the Buddhist one, but in the Christian world, when a Christian bitch wants to be a catty bitch, but they're afraid of getting caught, they mumble and don't mean anything. They mumble and mumble and smirk and mumble, and they think they're hot shit, all while stuttering and mumbling. But nobody even understands your mumbling cunt mouth. They just know they don't like you, cause you're a tard.

Straight Christians think people won't figure out they're scared Christians, because they'll hide it behind their mumbling. But guess what? After a few decades of seeing scared stupid mumbling bitches, people realize they don't like scared stupid mumbling bitches. You're not the first mumbling bitch, everyone learned to recognize your kind long before they read your shitposts.

>>6718425
i don't even know what you're talking about but amen anon

>>6706852

its not an issue if you pass

if you don't, its repulsive. just like being an ugly or guy. no amount of social "fixing" is going to change that ALL people are repulsed by unpassable traps

>>6718440
It's kind of like that "hon" thing. People on here want to make that a thing, where trannies will conflate 4chan "hon" with northeast-U.S. "hon", and start hearing "hon" everywhere they go in the real world. But trannies don't come to 4chan, and when they do, they don't listen to troll, because you all are Omega males. Bottom rung bitches. They're not going to remember what you said, or care. But you bitches do this shit in highschool and gradeschool and kindergarten, and think you're hot shit. People learn to recognize tards like you. They don't understand what you're saying because you can't speak English without stuttering, you can't just come out and say anything because you're a bitch, but they just learn to see a bitch and think "that's a Christian." The association is made in their mind.

So when you go on Youtube and mumble like a bitch, thinking nobody will figure out you worship Jesus Christ, everyone knows. They won't remember your words because nobody remembers an Omega males words, but they'll remember that you're an Omega male.

Uhhhhhhhh...
kek, idk, you lost me.

metatroll/10?

>>6718454

I just stumbled here and I'm unironically, honestly concerned about you right now

>>6718470
>>6718467
fucking newfags

>>6718471
>proud to be ab "old-fag"

Ok

>>6718394
Oh fuck off. The majority of people perpetuate it every goddamn day. I don't see them actually doing anything about it. Even when they try to act like its okay it always comes off as disingenuous and you can immediately tell that they consider you a lesser person for it.

I never explicitly said that we shouldn't consider gender dysphoria a mental illness. You're wrong however if you think solidifying being trans as a mental illness will make it an acceptable and legitimate thing to be in our society. As I said before, people already think we're both crazy and immoral so they're always going to tey imposing their morals and pseudo scientific bullshit onto us. Being certifiably mentally ill won't do anything but give them even more reason to hate us and screw with our lives. Have fun trying to change how society feels about mental illness and transgenderism when they already consider everything that comes out of your mouth to be unreliable.

>>6718493
Shut up you worthless Jesus worshiping rapist pedophile.

>>6718493
Oh fuck off. I never explicitly said that being trans as a mental illness will make it an acceptable and legitimate thing to be in our society. Remember that many people say depression is a meme disease, but it's becoming less and less of a stigma. It's just far better to latch onto this movement (plus it's pretty clear that being transgender is a mental illness, and lying about that is going to win no support).

>>6718517
>replying seriously to dogshit - anon

Mistake.

>>6718517
You said it would make it more acceptable and legitimate when that is clearly false. Society needs to get its shit together before that is even possible.

Nearly everyone has experienced depression in some form or another so it's barely even stigmatized to begin with. Removing the stigma for one mental illness doesn't necessarily effect how other ones are viewed. For example, people have all the respect for others with PTSD because its conflated with veterans and first responders, yet those same people have no respect whatsoever for trans people because its conflated with homosexuals, fetishists and sexual predators. Each condition has its unique set of issues and we have sexism and homophobia topped onto the stigma we already get for having a mental condition.

Most of us will deny it because we feel like we'll never be respected or seen as our desired gender because of it. When everyone thinks that all you are is a mentally ill man who pretends to be a woman or a crazy dyke that went too far, you're naturally going to try to disassociate yourself from that.

>>6718606
Or there's a simpler explanation you worthless little Christian tard. Trans people reject the "mental illness" meme, because heterosexuals created that meme without their permission or input, and trans people don't give a shit what heterosexuals decide, especially not heterosexuals who decide things for Christian reasons.

The LGBTQ peoples who stormed the heterosexual psychology enclaves and told them to shut up and quit being lying Christians didn't do that because they "naturally are going to try and disassociate themselves from that." They did it because heterosexuals were being shit, and they only way to stop them...was to stop them.

>>6706978
>A cis male never has to prove his masculinity and a cis woman never has to prove her femininity
That is the biggest fucking joke I've read all week. Like are you serious? Society is all about making people prove themselves. For real, do you live under a rock? I mean I know you're on 4chan, but Jesus man take a look around once in awhile before you say stupid shit.

>>6718629
A cop never arrested a cis woman for entering women's bathroom, not until the witch hunt for trans people in bathrooms started.

The hurt feeling of weak and soft little cis straight men and women does not equate to gender policing. Your childhood was not hell because your father insisted you learn how to throw a baseball straight. That is not the same as the holocaust. Just because it was the worst thing you ever experienced, does not mean it was all that bad.

>>6718606
There's no reason to though. It's just hugboxing yourself

>>6718652
>fear the obscure 4chan buzzword

>>6718655
You're just stigmatizing mental illness yourself, which is pretty shitty

>>6718656
>You must let me scream nigger at you, or YOU'RE the racist!

>>6718660
There is no shame in being mentally ill, retard

>>6718663
>I was wrong, but because I said it again, I'm not wrong anymore!

>>6718668
>I'll just keep spouting memetext that means I'm right!

>>6706881
Someone doesn't know about trapping

>>6706968
>Think of the children!
Your kid was gay without us, hth

>>6718676
>my shitposts are equal to obvious truths that point out what a retarded troll I am! Outside audiences can't decide for themselves that I'm a worthless monkey and the other guy is right for mocking me, we look to be on even footing from their perspective!

>>6709495
>people itt don't know about media
They don't take unpassable hons to make jokes about trannies

>>6706926
Yeah I'm sure that's what media laughs about when they want a tranny joke, see literally any show or film with a trans woman as punchline

>>6718681
>I'll just keep pretending that mentally ill people are BAD and hope nobody notices!

>>6718683
>I'll just repeating a worthless heterosexual meme, then he'll agree with me!

>>6718652
I'd say the overwhelming amount of stigma and outright hatred you get from it is a pretty damn good reason. Hiding from stigma doesn't mean you're perpetuating it. Society's perpetuating it, you're just trying to avoid their bullshit and live with some dignity. Are gays perpetuating stigma because they avoid coming out when it isn't safe for them? Are trans women perpetuating stigma when they use the men's restroom because they don't pass?

>>6718690
stigma stigma stigma perpetuate perpetuate perpetuate stigma stigma perpetuate

I can do that too you trash

Heterosexual dog shit retarded Heterosexual dog shit Christianity Jesus Christ dog shit heterosexuality Heterosexual Jesus Christ dog Christianity shit

>>6718690
It does if you're throwing the stigmatized under the bus for it. A more apt comparison is a gay staying closeted and holding God Hates Fags signs and gaybashing, a passing trans woman signing fuck trannies pledges on her way into the bathroom.

>>6718643
>A cop never arrested a cis woman for entering women's bathroom, not until the witch hunt for trans people in bathrooms started.
That's also true of trans women, tbqh, the witch hunt mostly targeting the larger number of gender variant non trans people was easy to guess when the debates started.

That said all gender variant people get shit, esp in rural shitholes (yes tomboys too if they still are past puberty), trans just get it worse.

>>6718705
Well yes, of course. But simply denying that you're gay or trans and leaving it at that isn't perpetuating stigma. Same as how keeping your depression private or publicly denying that you have a mental illness isn't perpetuating stigma. A trans person proudly declaring that they're mentally ill isn't gonna do anything tangible for trans rights, it'll only confirm transphobes' biases and further enable them to continue systematically screwing us over.

>>6718837
Most of our rights are thanks to trans people standing up, not thanks to cowards hiding.

>>6706852
Mostly through representation, being a really popular and entertaining character stereotype to break the ice (it's kind of sad that this is a step), anti-discrimination laws, and getting more of us to come out would help with public acceptance some. We could also use technologies to improve passing, like genetic therapy, and either pioneering technologies in bodily reconstruction or full-blown replacement. As much as I'd like to just jump in a test tube and come out a teenage girl: that's just wild fantasy right now. The more we can pass and function as the opposite gender the better, but we need public acceptance as well. And, protections against the worst kind of people that populate the extreme anti-LGBTQ crowd. We've needed that since forever and were denied that by TERFs, and there language stems from transphobia and androphobia that dominates the anti-trans crowd for women.

>>6719097
>that's just wild fantasy right now
or forever for that matter

>TERFs
they're a fart in the wind and mainstream feminism at this point is one of our strongest supports (see PP doing HRT). It's also never been about androphobia, the main hatred isn't males, it's that society thinks the feminine is inferior and polices male assigned kids hard for them to not show said inferiority.

>>6706852
>How do we get the normies to stop seeing us as freaks and faggots?
Well, once the majority of us don't look like freaks, that'll probably help.

It kinda hurts us when the only people representing us look like Steven Tyler with half-developed boobs.

>>6719180
Yeah, the GOP gets the worst looking trannies.

>>6719185
Well, it's more that a few things happen all at once
1) they wait until they've reproduced
2) they don't kill themselves because they see nothing wrong with it, or convince themselves there's nothing wrong
3) they go out and yell to the world that they're trans and here to represent other trannies because they think age automatically brings wisdom
4) passing trannies blend in as girls

>>6718837
But complaining that trannies aren't mentally ill is perpetuating the notion that being mentally ill is bad, insulting, and something to be ashamed of, just like the examples I mentioned.

>>6721793
Well you can't blame them when the people who argue that they are mentally ill do the same exact thing you're talking about. Going by their paradigm, all you really are is an insane person pretending to be the opposite sex. You can't be trusted with your own bodily autonomy because you're obviously mentally unstable. You can't be taken seriously or respected at all because you suffer from delusions. You shouldn't have a civil rights movement but instead should be locked away, put on pimozide and forced through conversion therapy. To them it is a shameful thing to have because it's maladaptive and harmful to both you and society, so any maltreatment from others is justifiable because all they're really doing is trying to ensure the survival of the species by culling you.

Do you really want to play into that? Maybe we could get some trans people to stand up and admit to having a mental illness while still openly identifying as their chosen gender and declaring that they're not inherently insane or immoral for having gender dysphoria, but I strongly doubt anyone would take them seriously.