I’m sick of the way the trans community, the medical profession

I don't give a fuck what society expects of me. A lot of gender stereotypes are breddy dumb famerino. I never thought I'm not a woman because I don't like pink.

If I was the only person alive I'd still want to inject testosterone to look like the biological male I'll never fully be.

Let me ease your troubled mind my dear uninformed TERF: Don't worry fucking no one transitions because of traditional gender roles

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>>6679674
That seems empirically false.

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Just gonna dump some more evidence, because this is pretty significant.

>>6680127
Lol it's a hon this bait is quoting.

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>>6680138
Is that some sort of no true scotsman argument?

MTF have female brains, FTM have male brains.

Transgender = psychologically intersex

>muh gender rolls
Go back to tumblr

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There's really no shortage of these. I don't understand how anyone can claim something like >>6679674 at this point.

>>6680130
My nigga, I'm a transgirl, I sort of pass. I'm siting in my friends house in boxers watching a spy movie smoking weed and eating burgers. Gender roles is your thing.

>>6679544
most trans people experience body dysphoria, gender roles have nothing to do with it.

>>6680150
These are just faggots, not even fembois or transgirls, just flames fag shit.

>>6680144
There is no such thing as a female or a male brain.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/04/male-female-brains-same-but-people-all-different

>>6680152
>>6680154
Note that I'm not claiming every tgirl must have transitioned because of gender stereotypes. I'm fine with e.g. people who say being truly trans is defined by having sex dysphoria (i.e. anguish over one's very anatomy), though then they call you truscum...

>>6680158
Again, No True Scotsman argument. These are people who identify as transgender.

>>6680164
Go back to the kitchen with your feminism bullshit hoe, before I beat you with the newspaper. This is 2016 women aren't princesses. You literally have no point.

>>6679544
>>6679544
I like guns, cars, competitive video games, almost never wear makeup, work out, go camping, etc etc

And I still take estrogen and antiandrogens

Guess why?
Because "gender rules" are a stupid meme and I can still have dysphoria about being born male while still maintaining an individual personality.

>>6680164
>muh (((research)))
Try harder, faggot.

I'm so tired of people coopting this genuine but *very* rare medical condition to use as ammunition for their SJW antics.

Crippling dysphoria? Congratulations, you're trans! Enjoy your imminent suicide.

Genderqueer attack helicopter? Fuck off; stop spending so much time on the internet.

>>6679544
This is really true. I'm way too far down the rabbit hole to turn back now though. I'm stuck living the rest of my life as a fake woman.

During the early years of my transition I felt good about my gains. But now that things have leveled out, and I've been passing for years, I just feel like a huge fake.

I wish the transsexual meme wasn't thrust into the forefront of social justice. We are stifling sience, medicine, and self-acceptance, which ironically are the very things progressives claim to be spearheading. Of course the flip side are retarded religious people who just want to shit on any shade of fag.

>>6680154
>>6680158
>>6680175
If these posts are representative of /lgbt/ in general, that would mean that the trans subcommunity of /lgbt/ consists of people which other parts of the trans(activist) community would deem "truscum", is that right? Does the trans subcommunity of /lgbt/ embrace this?

>>6680179
>>muh (((research)))
>Try harder, faggot.
Um, you're missing the part where you're supposed to explain how the research is wrong. Meanwhile, do you have any research showing what exact part/aspect of the brain determines the presence of dysphoria? I'm open to the idea, but it's not like even that has been proven (let alone a more general "female/male brain" binary).

Also, maybe it's a hell lot more difficult and needs a different approach, but if anorexia or other self-hate conditions can be treated, it may be possible for dysphoria as well. For instance, has there *ever* been an attempt at a therapy that goes over telling the person that they can be e.g. "girly" in their male body? Some sort of "reverse deeply internalized gender stereotypes" therapy?

Or for a different take entirely, I've read about things like autism or a past of child abuse also possibly leading to dysphoria. (In the latter case, dissociating from the body parts that were involved in the abuse.)

>>6680201
>do you have any research...
Academia is fucked six ways from Sunday. Good luck publishing a study that finds against the prevailing social orthodoxy. If you manage to get funding in the first place, and are willing to risk your whole career on this one issue.

>>6680201
Its because dysphoria is not a condition in and of itself but simply the general mood of a medical condition.
Dysphoria is connected with a myriad of conditions, yet transgenderism is the only of these that are encouraged to use plastic surgery and hormone therapy to feel better.

>>6680201
I'm >>6680175 btw
>that would mean that the trans subcommunity of /lgbt/ consists of people which other parts of the trans(activist) community would deem "truscum"
I'd say the majority, yeah. There's a few people here that transition for other reasons but the majority almost definitely experiences dysphoria in some way.

>do you have any research showing what exact part/aspect of the brain determines the presence of dysphoria?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=22094

>has there *ever* been an attempt at a therapy that goes over telling the person that they can be e.g. "girly" in their male body?
No clue, but I doubt it would work very given that transitioning isn't about being "girly" or "manly", it's about being perceived as female or male. I don't think I'm very girly, and I'm fine with being me. Telling me I can be girly without taking hormones and socially transitioning would do absolutely nothing for me, and I seriously doubt I'm alone in feeling this way.

>>6680278
>Telling me I can be girly without taking hormones and socially transitioning would do absolutely nothing for me
Same here.

>>6680164
That article doesn't even try to disprove the gender differences found beforehand. It's just something to make people feel better.

Here are some actual studies (not just a pop article) on trans or sexually dimorphic brains:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/228/4703/1112.short
http://www.tgmeds.org.uk/a-sex-difference-in-the-human-brain-and-its-relation-to-transsexuality.html#.V6TWf_krK70
http://nro.sagepub.com/content/16/5/550.short
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/131/12/3132.short

>>6680361
>>6680164
And here's some more:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/19751389
http://www.journalofpsychiatricresearch.com/article/S0022-3956(10)00158-5/abstract
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0083947

>>6680278
Alright, thanks.
Some of the studies you link are super interesting. (Though some others are old news to me and open to interpretation from what I can tell.)

>>6680361
Um, a uni study with a sample size of 1.4k is not a "pop article".
>Scientists analysed brain scans of more than 1400 men and women and found that while some features are more common in one sex than the other, each person’s brain has a unique “mosaic” of these features, as well as others seen commonly in both.
There was also one with a sample size of >6k, though can't be arsed to find right now.

>>6680361
>>6680386
Well, some of those studies don't actually prove a sexual brain dimorphism from what I can tell, some have very small sample sizes, some of the links seem to be about the same study, etc., but still there's some evidence in there so thanks.

One thing I find very interesting is, in the last link:
>Both MTF and FTM patients were eligible for the study, but only those with homosexual orientation. The rationale for this choice was based on the Blanchard typology [15] which considers two fundamentally different types of transsexualism: homosexual and nonhomosexual. [...]
Trans activists would go utterly nuts if they saw this. Especially the "lesbian" identifying ones who often seem among the most vile...

>>6680513
Then you could've linked the actual study. The study doesn't say that brains aren't sexually dimorphic, it says that there isn't a hard-set male and female brain. It said the most brains weren't completely one way or the other, not that they couldn't tell the gender of the brain. They can usually deduce the gender by seeing whether it's more masculine or more feminine.

It doesn't go against the findings of the previous studies and doesn't seek to disprove them.

It's a body to brain disconnect. Gender "rolls" have nothing to do with and the people preaching this bunk pseudo-science are the same as doctors in the dark ages literally rubbing human feces in wounds to "heal" people.

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>>6680201
>For instance, has there *ever* been an attempt at a therapy that goes over telling the person that they can be e.g. "girly" in their male body? Some sort of "reverse deeply internalized gender stereotypes" therapy?

Yea nah. My therapist is a second wave radfem and she sometimes tries to sneak this into her sessions. It doesn't work. In fact, it's pretty fucking insulting because all it shows is condescension and a complete ignorance for how the real world works.

Telling someone who wants to be percieved as the other sex that it's "okay" to be masculine or feminine as their birth sex will never work as a coping technique. People treat males and females differently. And even in the most progressive of societies today, people still treat each other differently based on perceived biological sex. It's literally an evolutionary trait. You can't just handwave all of that with some bullshit therapy. Even so called "gender abolitionists" treat males and females differently. They themselves all have their own set of roles, stereotypes, prejudices and biases towards each sex. Look at how quick they are to ostracize trans women from social groups because of their biological sex. It's pretty hypocritical to separate people and draw arbitrary social lines based on biological sex when you want to abolish gender, which comes directly from the social segregation and physical dimorphism of the sexes.

>>6680836
>Telling someone who wants to be percieved as the other sex that it's "okay" to be masculine or feminine as their birth sex will never work as a coping technique. People treat males and females differently. And even in the most progressive of societies today, people still treat each other differently based on perceived biological sex.
OK so far.
>It's literally an evolutionary trait.
What exactly is the evolutionary trait, in your claim? People of a certain sex finding you sexually attractive? (That one would be true.) Then how about finding a gay/lesbian community?
>Even so called "gender abolitionists" treat males and females differently.
Sex isn't gender. And I'm not aware of e.g. transwomen desiring to be treated as impregnateable, menstruating people who have been oppressed for millennia... Their idea of being treated as a girl/woman is surely different from that? Whatever it is, is it something that is truly impossible to attain with a male biology?
>They themselves all have their own set of roles, stereotypes, prejudices and biases towards each sex.
No, that's wrong. The only different treatment of females and males you'll see from gender abolitionists would be:
1. sex-based differences
2. differences based on the currently existing sex class hierarchy in which males are on top and females at the bottom, which cannot be salvaged by pretending that everybody's *already* equal in society
>Look at how quick they are to ostracize trans women from social groups because of their biological sex. It's pretty hypocritical to separate people and draw arbitrary social lines based on biological sex when you want to abolish gender, which comes directly from the social segregation and physical dimorphism of the sexes.
This falls under point #2 above, or in some cases point #1 (e.g. a group that is exclusive to people experiencing menstruation, pregnancy, etc.).

>>6680836
To sum up my previous post:
I do understand the point you're making in that telling someone it's OK to be feminine/masculine in a male/female body might not work very well or at all, because the rest of society will still implicitly and explicitly and constantly tell them it's in fact not OK to be masculine/feminine in a female/male body. This argument I have no problem with, though I would suggest that for some people the therapy may still work. (One could try to "fortify" them against the bullshit of society, etc.)

The rest of your post seems based on misconceptions.

>>6680118
>>6680127
>>6680130
>>6680139
>>6680150
>trans women are influenced by female gender roles

wow you don't say

They aren't even saying "I'm a woman because I liked feminine stuff", they're saying "I liked feminine stuff as a kid". Little kids are told what 'boy stuff' and 'girl stuff' is and trans kids are gonna absorb that the same way any cis kid would. The majority of cis women also had feminine interests as a kid.

>>6680201
You don't get it.
I have little interest in "being girly." I wish I were just cis (well obviously I guess) because I would fit in much better as a man. It's just that my manly body makes me want to blow my head off.

>>6681478
Treating people differently based on sex and sex class hierarchal differences is why gender exists in the first place, and is endlessly perpetuated. It's why your movement exists and will continue to exist in its futile attempts to reshape society into a post scarcity, utopian fantasy. You can't have sexual dimorphism exist in a society without gender being an inherent part of it. It goes far deeper than just clothes and toys. Until we evolve and become some asexual blob of a species, our society will always be forced to adapt and shape itself based on our own reproductive biology.

>I'm not trans, but I'm going to tell you that the reason you are is X and not Y like you think it is, because my feelings tell me it's X and X is bad; I don't like X and maybe if you just stopped doing X you wouldn't feel that way anymore

Gender Theorists and Feminism are the literal bane of my existence holy shit

>>6682107
>trans children have such a deep understanding of their "real sex" that they're influenced by social stereotypes regarding that sex
That's an extraordinary claim; it requires extraordinary evidence.

>>6682388
>Treating people differently based on sex and sex class hierarchal differences is why gender exists in the first place, and is endlessly perpetuated.
You don't get it. Just like racism can't be curbed by saying "I don't see color!", sexism can't be curbed by saying "I don't see genitals!".

>>6682407
>>I'm going to tell you that the reason you are is X and not Y like you think it is, because my feelings tell me it's X
Feelings, yeah, sure.

>>6684702
>You don't get it. Just like racism can't be curbed by saying "I don't see color!", sexism can't be curbed by saying "I don't see genitals!".

That's why we'll never abolish gender. Racism and sexism is still a thing in the human psyche despite how much we've been trying to repress it. The same applies to gender. People will always treat each other differently in social situations based on their biological sex. All this talk about "encouraging" trans people to live as the gender they were assigned at birth makes you think you're destroying gender roles, but all you're doing is creating new ones with new sets of labels, slurs, biases and stereotypes.

The only way to truly dismantle gender is to make biological sex meaningless in a social context, which it never will be because, as you say, you can't completely ignore anatomy in social situations. You can't even ignore differences in gender. The concept of "Male privilege" and the entire feminist critique of the male gender is in itself a gender based construct.

>>6684839
TL;DR: you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>6679544
Nobody else makes the mistake except you. If you don't have the sense of mind to know what they're doing you can't quite blame other people. That's why /lgbt/ has so many disillusioned unpassing and angry trannies in the first place.

You can't now just blame everyone else for your mistakes when you took advantage of the situation before.

>>6681501
So people should live a harder life, to support your particular conception of feminism ? That can only be OK if it is a choice - and that's actually how it is right now, nobody is forced to transition, and can instead fortify/repress themselves.

But most likely you want that imposed to everybody seeking to transition.