Why are guys so accepting towards FTMs, while women usually reject

>>6644611
Women don't want their special status being encroached upon by lowly, disgusting, filthy males.

>>6644611
*is it because of the way that

Men without a penis are not seen as a threat. Women with a penis are. People are scared of penises.

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21KB, 399x295px

>>6644611
Women are considered inherently valuable because of their biology whereas men are always considered expendable and threatening to women until they prove their worth both to the females and society. The idea of what a man is is more abstract and socially constructed whereas a woman is nothing more than her body and biology. Feminism reinforces this by demonizing the male as an inherent threat and oppressor of the female while pushing for society to give women the social status and upward mobility of successful males while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge or give up the advantages that come with the special status that patriarchal society gives them. Female socialization also teaches women to be passive yet apprehensive of biological males so they're more prone to rejecting trans women. It's also why feminists and social conservatives are panicking over trans women using the women's restroom. Both groups consider women to be inherently valuable and in need of extra accommodations for their comfort and safety.

>>6644720
>It's also why feminists and social conservatives are panicking over trans women using the women's restroom. Both groups consider women to be inherently valuable and in need of extra accommodations for their comfort and safety.
i normally hate political lgbt shit, but i just love this. finally women are getting their comeuppance for feminism.

>>6644740
>camming
>implying i wouldn't be a full on prostitute if i were cis

>>6644611
>women usually reject MTFs in totality?
How has this assumption not been challenged this entire thread? Where did you get this idea? It's so far out of touch with reality.

>>6644762
maybe it's more that men don't have a TERF equivalent. there's a least a sizeable female population opposed to MTFs while there is no male-centered group opposed to FTMs

>>6644762
I was gonna ask that but I ended up not posting in this thread. I actually haven't met a cis woman that is anti-trans or intentionally discriminatory towards transpeople.

I honestly think most people just don't care.

>>6644775
The TERFs are just bitter cunts that want to preach egalitarianism but actually have figured out they are more interested in matriarchy and absolutely don't want to let any toxic "males" in their group!

>>6644775
That could be due to the lack of visibility of trans men in both the media and irl since most of them are stealth passing after taking T for a while without needing any expensive surgeries or anything

>>6644762
Irl women have been much more accepting of me than men, so I don't really know how well this holds up, though online TERFs appear to be the prominent source of trans hate these days and TERFs are mostly women.

>>6644620
unironically and literally this

>>6644775
>sizeable female population opposed to MTFs
You could certainly "size" their population, but that's the only way you could consider TERFs sizable. They're a miniscule and terribly disliked branch of feminism at odds with women's rights more often than not in their clumsy attempts to hide a hate group as a feminist ideology. Their vocal Internet presence is basically "alt right for girls", complete with signal boosting and funding organizations dead set on hurting all women, simply because doing so will at least hurt trans women.

>while there is no male-centered group opposed to FTMs
This is because no man has found a way to spin MRA philosophy into a career attacking trans men - no one knows trans men exist, and no one respects MRAs.

If no one can make a living off it, it won't catch on.

>>6644809
Women are passive or passive-aggressive at the most due to their socialization. In their social groups they have a unique capacity for cruelty that you don't find in male groups. It's likely you've interacted with many who outright despise you but won't tell it to your face because they consider you a male and therefore a credible threat to their safety. If you wanna know how much they hate trans women, just look at how quickly they'll sic their men on you if they feel threatened by your presence.

>>6644832
Eat shit.
t. MTF MRA

>>6644842
LOL. Sounds like you just hang out with really shitty people desu senpai.

>>6644720
Fully agree with all of this. Couldn't have said it better myself.

>>6644611
Men know a FtM's neovagina cannot fertilize a womb, women are afraid MtF will hog all of the baby making batter.

>>6644853
>she doesn't even know about 4chan wordfilters

>>6644862
or I don't care about the filters tbhon

thx senpai

>>6644847
No one respects your ideology enough for you to make a career out of disguising a hate group as a branch of your Internet slap-fight-protests against women's rights (and near-universal failure to promote men's rights) club.

>>6644853
I live in the the southern U.S. so it's possible.

>>6644883
I live every day offline dealing with real men and women in a variety of environments. Maybe it's a Canadian thing, but I am not shunned, despised, or feared by women in any number sufficient to even give me pause in saying OP is scaremongering.

Why do so many transtrender women feel like they're entitled to use male pronouns/male """aesthetics""" and to be treated as male, without any effort to pass? Do they really think of the male form as so worthless as to try to appropriate without paying any heed to what it is to really be a guy?

>>6644879
>No one respects your ideology
I get called a freak every day. I am aware.

>>6644909
>women
>ever paying heed to what is appropriate
>not just expecting everything to be given to them

>>6644853
It's true. Women may not say it to your face but they do not consider you a woman. If conservatives put your discrimination protections on the ballot and said that trannies were gonna invade women's bathrooms if it passed, they would vote against you every time because women are more prone to not question the paternalistic conservatives who tell them their safety is compromised. Look at what happened in Houston if you don't believe me they used a woman for their radio ads claiming that the equal rights ordinance would allow men into women's bathrooms. They made TV ads showing a man following a little girl into a women's restroom and paraded their support from anti trans feminist groups to show that women were concerned. Guess what: it worked.

They'll only tolerate you as a woman as long as they don't feel threatened by you. As soon as they do, your rights will be set back by at least a decade.

>>6644939
Those advertisements were principally made by, and promoted to, men. So long as they can protect their property from even imaginary harm, they're motivated to do it. Even Cathy fucking Brennan tried to warn that this bathroom business was bad juju.

Because in addition to stirring up anger in men about trans women: it's made it dangerous for any woman to be gender non-conforming in public. After all, any angry young man is not just within his rights, but morally impelled to accost any woman who does not look quite womanly enough - she might be a sneaky man trying to damage his property!

For real, the bathroom thing is WAY bigger than trans people, and it's being carried by the most conservative men you can find for a very good reason.

>>6644611
Because to make a complete stranger's problems one's own personal problem is something women do. Men don't think of someone else's transition as something that affects them personally. At most they'll just think it's weird.

sauce: chatting w/coworkers as stealth ftm

>>6644977
>people hate mtfs
>this is a problem for cis women!

>>6645018
No, it's a problem for ALL women, and an avenue for attack against ALL women, and a serious threat to the safety and freedom of ALL women, because some very loud and powerful men have forwarded less about trans women being a threat to cis women to all their bigoted friends, with the full knowledge that these policies will hurt, kill, and weaken trans women, while allowing them to exert unprecedented social control and scrutiny against ALL women.

So yeah, it IS a problem for cis women, and it's time you get your head out of your ass long enough to recognize that we're ALL under attack, just with trans women as the official target since we're more easily dehumanized.

>>6645050
I'd happily be worse off myself if it makes things better for men and worse for women.

>>6644977
>it's being carried by the most conservative men you can find for a very good reason.

It's also being carried by more moderate conservatives, aging academics and some liberals. The overlap is there because the idea that women are more valuable than men and need extra protection and accommodation is something that's still commonly held among the majority of people.

Just because a cis woman may be mistaken for a trans woman and face violence because of it doesn't mean the perpetuators of that stigma and violence intended it to apply to cis women. For example, a man followed a butch dyke into a women's restroom because he thought she was a man but when she told him and confirmed she was a woman, he backed down immediately. Cis women are still free to express their gender as long as people perceive them as female. You have some good points but I think you overestimate how devious conservatives really are.

>>6644611
In my experience
Men reject all transgender people,, as friends or partners
and women are accepting of both mtfs and to an extent ftms

as an ftm i've had issues being friends with both men and women,
since men look down on me and outcast me and i can't relate to women

>>6644720
>The idea of what a man is is more abstract and socially constructed whereas a woman is nothing more than her body and biology

thisthisthishthisthis
an ftm can 'work towards' being a man
but an mtf can never achieve being a biological woman

>>6644847
>t. non passing shutin

>>6645077
Granted, I hang out with more men, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I've had more men say to my face that they don't want to call me by my chosen name. Idk what it is because it's not like these people were assholes before, and I haven't changed that much as a person except really in how I present.

>>6645073
Women are not valued at all.
Wombs are. And most women are keenly aware of it.

It's why the only time the right speaks of womens' welfare is when they're protecting them from having reproductive rights, protecting them from being exposed to people who might impregnate them (especially marginalized, racialized populaces), and protecting them from avoiding caretaking responsibilities.

>>6644842
True
Its why so many women are liberals
Appearing to be open and accepting of all people, makes them look good and raises their social status,
but wait until shes out with chad and he harasses a transperson, most women will be happy to laugh along with him.
But men,
they'll challenge your identity, openly mock you, argue with you for a few days,
then ulitmately decide they don't give a fuck as long as you're a cool person and forget about it

>>6645098
>this level of feminist delusion

>>6645091
You can't understand why someone who looks like a woman would oppose feminism?

>>6645077
>as an ftm i've had issues being friends with both men and women,
sounds like you need a trap/femboy gf

>>6645098
I mean, you have a point but a womb is a part of a woman's body. So women's bodies and therefore women themselves are considered intrinsically valuable. Even in liberal circles that claim to support women's rights, a woman's safety and comfort take priority over a man's. Go to a women's shelter, a lesbian bar, or even a feminist controlled LGBT meeting and see how quickly they'll kick out a trans woman if a cis woman feels upset by her presence.

Women are very much valued and they're considered even more valuable in liberal circles thanks to feminism.

>>6645146
>So women's bodies and therefore women themselves are considered intrinsically valuable.
Being valued as a womb is not the same as being valued as a person you petulant moron.

>>6645146
>women's shelter
Been there

>lesbian bar
multiple times with friends

>feminist controlled LGBT meeting
Cis friends invited me in

Terfs get kicked out. Bug Brennan is blacklisted from most gay and lesbian bars.

>>6645297

This.

Also it's not like trans women don't get the "you're just a womb" bullshit, most trans women who aren't total shutins get it, up to and including retarded gps dismissing health issues as "maybe you're pregnant"

Do passing trans women not notice how frequently trans women are sexually needy and hard to get rid of if you end up alone with them? Do they only do this to cis women?

I'm not even a TERF. I'm openly anti-TERF. I'm just saying, if you start to hang around trans women in good faith, it's a bit of a shock. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but cis women only rarely do this to other cis women.

>>6645338
I have a lot of cis female friends who are pretty needy.

>cis women only rarely do this to other cis women.
Cis women are more likely to be open about experimenting in pretty much every survey about sexuality

>>6645312
>>6645327
Have you considered the possibility that you pass and therefore gain some of the advantages cis women have?

>>6645366
Admitting that your ideas are fueled by bitterness does nothing for your argument. MRAs aren't going to tolerate effeminate boys any more than they'll take women seriously.

>>6645077
Just go stealth, no one I know really cares

Maybe because trans men aren't constantly invading gay male spaces, screaming at gay men for being transphobic, and demanding sex? Just a theory

>>6644611
Are cis men even accepting of trans men? Men are still very often casually homophobic, but they don't similarly mistreat men who have vaginas?

>>6645297
I never explicitly said it was the same. If you wanna go by the feminist and majority mindset that all a woman is is her body and the experiences gained from it then what I said is very much accurate. Go say what you said to the society that places women on a sacred pedestal because of their bodies. A woman's value as a potential child bearer still affords her special privileges and accommodations from society, even from liberals and feminists. Even infertile women gain these privileges because though they cannot bear children, they can still raise them.

>>6645450
this whole thread is a tranny getting mad because cis lesbians won't fuck him. ignore it

>>6644775
TERFs hate on ftms too, see baedells and dirt from dirt

>>6645388
That's quite a lot of disingenuous presumptions and ad hominem you got there senpai. You still didn't answer my question. Do you pass or don't you?

>>6645388
>MRAs aren't going to tolerate effeminate boys any more than they'll take women seriously.

MRAs are almost all terrified that they are effeminate boys, and thus could be treated like women.

>>6645450
In current non-woke male culture, a creature who is not a hetero male is an other, and of low status. They're ignored and objectified like straight women, but since they have little to offer men they're not tolerated as much.

>>6644978
This.

>>6645459
This. It's just instead of seeing them as threats, they see them as masculine women that were pressured to surgically alter their body by the patriarchy.

>>6645454
It's an elephant in the room we should talk about though, no?

FtMs almost always pass. Everyone does hate on the tumblrcore genderqueers and butch women who don't transition and thus don't pass. I have yet to see a multiple years on T FtM who would be read as androgynous, they all come across as male to a normie. It's hard to get up in arms over someone that is basically invisible to you.

And, anecdotally, the trans women that pass tend to be treated fine. It's just that so many absolutely don't, and get read as "men in dresses" so people freak out.

>>6645498
It's not, though. It's hyperbole aimed at fomenting hostility and strife within an already marginalized and much-maligned group on 4chan.

And it's transparent.

>>6644611
I was on a train once and a pair of girls started chatting about their FtM fellow student. They openly laughed a few times, and came to the conclusion it's harder to be an FtM than an MtF. It seems the MtF visual in their mind is a flaming homosexual man in drag, something of comedy, and not to be taken seriously. Society hasn't systematically made jokes about FtM transition so when someone says tranny as a slur they mean MtF exclusively.

Some FtM feel that this is an MtF privilege and that they are forgotten, that it's a bad thing they're not singled out for ridicule.

Some feminists believe that an FtM will always be a woman and shares female experience which an MtF cannot possibly share.

>>6645498
not getting laid is oppression at its worst :(((((((( cotton ceiling!

Because most FtMs are legitimate trannies, while most MtFs are guys with a fetish who are creepy as fuck and women dont want to be around.

I don't care about this subject at all, but my Jewish roommate is talking to his also Jewish friend about this exact subject pretty much. I'm pretty sure he isn't trans because he fucks a lot of women, but he talks about this shit a lot. Just an observation.

>>6644611
Cis men don't usually feel threatened by someone afab. Cis women do when it comes to amab. Give it time, I guess.

>>6645511
If that were the case, I'm sure many men would join in and claim they were also being pressured by trans women. Somehow they didn't think of that yet, depsite the huge proportion of MRA's ITT. I'm not so sure it's just "fomenting hostility" or trolling. The problem is pretty specific.

>>6644611
Is every cis woman you know a TERF or do you live life through the lenses of the internet?

>>6645116
All feminists are ugly cunts, so by default all MRA's are greasy shut-in's

>>6645551
>I'm sure many men would join in and claim they were also being pressured by trans women
They do though, don't they? That's where the whole paranoia from straight men that they're going to get "tricked" by an MtF comes from, that's where "trap" as a term came from.

>>6645559
That sounds like literal homophobia, which actually kills; but I haven't seen a developed political movement emerge to validate and support "gay panic".

>>6645146
>Go to a women's shelter, a lesbian bar, or even a feminist controlled LGBT meeting
>lesbian bar
Okay anon, I get what this is really about.

>>6645526
Serious question: As much as I have come across multiple pushy trans women IRL, do any trans women actually support the notion of the "cotton ceiling" aside from those it's directly attributed to? The cotton ceiling seems truly a fringe idea trans women rarely associate themselves with.

>>6645634
"The cotton ceiling" was a seven person workshop in Toronto focused on exploring the way transfeminine bodies are regarded in popular and queer culture, and helping participants to develop strategies to overcome their own body image issues and advocate respect for their partners' sexuality in face of the challenges too often leveled against their partners of not being "real" lesbians.

>>6645444
>>6645454
>>6645511
>>6645498
>>6645551
>>6645634
Serious question has anyone actually argued with someone for 5 hours and then given up and let them have sex? Have sex when they don't want to have sex because of some argument? Does this actually happen?

I have a hard time believing this ever happens.

>>6644736
>finally women are getting their comeuppance for feminism.
Mainly trans women reap the negative results of this mentality whether they're feminist or not. To everyone else this is a fashion statement pro skub/anti-skub fad. It doesn't affect their lives in any major way, or even minor way really most of the time. It's just something to be mad about, and for memesters to exploit for lack of creativity. To trans women it's a major part of their lives and safety.

>>6645634
I think you can't expect someone to sleep or not sleep with someone for any reason. It is not transphobic to not sleep with a transwoman for the same reason it is not racist to not sleep with a white man. People like what they like. Things only get problematic when you extrapolate from personal preference to statements like "no straight men or gay women ought sleep with transwomen".

>>6644842
This. It's like a hidden warzone of cunty backhanded compliments and gossip queens. Trust no one. Here be dragons.

because a stereotyped guy is a lot less annoying than a stereotyped girl. and we all know trans people get their ideas about the opposite gender from hollywood and the like
>I'm a girl now, I must be prissy, wear dresses and bitch about everything
>I'm a guy now, I better learn to man up and solve my own problems
which do you think people will hate more? Its not just the women who can't stand MTFs

>>6645444
Are you finished, because I don't think you crammed enough alarmist rhetoric into that post yet.

>>6645752
It's basically a strawman made up by terfs who think all lesbians who sleep with trans women are forced or tricked into it for the most part

>>6645824
its easier to believe lesbians don't truly exist

>>6645467
By real life standards, apparently yes.

The thing is I doubt your likely insistence on being non-passing is by anything but the standards of the board, which are literally insane.

>>6645828
It's not really the responsibility of trans women to validate each and every cis lesbian's sexual identity whether they interact with them or not. I've had cis lesbians freak the fuck out and get violent because they made a pass, got shot down, and later found out I was trans. One butch cis lesbian grabbed my ass in a hookah bar while I was on my way out, followed me catcalling, then tried to fight me on the side walk when she realized I'm trans because I "tricked" her and I was apparently trying to rape her by "letting" myself get molested. Her friends almost jumped me but luckily I wasn't alone and they backed down. At another place one older, "I need to see a manager" type cis woman tried to get a bouncer, this burly middle-aged biker with a cut and everything, to beat the living shit out of me for using the single-occupancy ladies room. She screamed at the top of her lungs that I'm was a sick and evil fetishist out to prey upon her and made quite the scene. I hadn't even spoken to her, or looked in her direction. But oh the rage. The dude was cool luckily. I had a conversation with him earlier that night and asked him if he wanted a beer. He told her to fuck off and she stormed out. The whole place hadn't noticed me, but at that point everyone couldn't stop looking.

It's a double standard, it's fucked up, and it's unfair. But life is unfair. Thankfully I pass now. Those early days were a fucking warzone of everyone's personal hangups, sexual hangups, and drama, friends, strangers, family, it's ridiculous.

>>6645877
its not my responsibility to care

>>6645888
Fantastic! So don't. But don't be a hypocrite and "not care" until you wanna make a scene and start drama for no reason.

>>6645877
Some butches are really fun and chill, but a lot of butches basically act in the worst, most entitled boyish way possible and they seriously need to be sat down and told to cut that dumb shit out.

>>6645888
It should be if you're a cis lesbian.

>>6645877
It's a no win situation if you're trans. Even abstaining from contact people will attack you?

>>6645909
I'm sick of cis women demanding, oftentimes violently, that I apologize for passing and being attractive to them, or that I should wear a sign on my forehead or a pink triangle on my clothes to signify trans as if it's my fault they're shallow. It's as if they think my existence is conditional based on my ability to facilitate their perusal of potential hookups. But remember kids, objectification is baaaad.

>>6645939
When I didn't pass, I didn't have to say a word. All I had to do was walk into the room, or down the street, or try to take a piss. People would scream at me, should random things at me, approach me with their personal baggage like it's my responsibility to suss their fear, arousal, or confusion out for them. There is no such thing as personal space because everyone thinks you're the main attraction at the petting zoo, rubbing your hair, pinching your ass, poking your face, grabbing your boobs, etc.

It's a sad state of affairs.

>>6645964
The thing is some of these butch lesbians do the self-entitle pig shit to cis lesbians too. It just got worse because you're trans but I mean in a general fashion they need to get slapped.

>>6645634
I've seen random people on the internet say that lesbians should sleep with non op trans women, and that any lesbian can totally make herself sexually attracted to a penis if it's attached to the right person. :^) They've said that it's transphobic to not want to sleep with a non/pre op MtF. DAE sexuality is fluid, etc

I've yet to see it happen IRL though, thank god.

>>6645077
Men don' understand not going stealth, in my experience. Women usually don't understand not telling everyone and their dog that you're ~*special* ~.

>>6645992
>I've seen random people on the internet say that lesbians should sleep with non op trans women, and that any lesbian can totally make herself sexually attracted to a penis if it's attached to the right person. :^)
No you haven't

>>6644611
>cater to women

Nail on the head op. You can explain everything about transsexuals by just remembering that mtfs are really guys and ftms are really girls

>>6646000
Is it really hard for you to believe that people say this shit on Tumblr? I can go looking for sources if you want.

>>6645507
It's confusing. It's unexpected.
The confusing and unexpected are main sources of humour as well as fear- thus people react with awkward laughter and by being afraid. They're confused and what is happening is breaking their expectations. It's not even malice, it's just people dealing with not knowing what the fuck is going on.
Even when you've read about trans people and know that they exist, it's a very different experience to meet a trans person for the first time irl, and it's mostly not at all like you expect through TV or online interactions. I'm trans myself and I reacted with the classic awkward laughter/paniced glance reaction when I met another tranny for the first time.

>>6645992
>I've seen random people on the internet say that lesbians should sleep with non op trans women, and that any lesbian can totally make herself sexually attracted to a penis if it's attached to the right person.
Yeah interesting how that almost always seems to be a gripe from an anonymous person. Surely no one would ever lie on the internet.

>>6646005
Sounds like you're taking things out of context. There's a difference between someone must sleep with someone else because they're trans, or being trans shouldn't be the reason to hate someone.

>>6646032
Okay, fine. Here's what five minutes of googling found me. These aren't the exact same posts I've just happened to stumble upon but the content is similar:

http://theroguefeminist.tumblr.com/post/80337070713/is-it-considered-transphobic-to-not-want-to-date-a
>you don’t have to date trans women with a penis, and you don’t have to be attracted to penises, but you SHOULD reconsider and rethink why it’s such a hang up for you and consider the trans misogyny tied to those preferences

http://thorsockrock.tumblr.com/post/84103456277/transphobia-transmisogyny-and-lesbophobia
>We are talking about when people want to avoid a whole group of people due to their genitalia. They’re gonna define their orientation as “attracted to x gender/s” and then completely dismiss a whole group of people who are that gender because of genitalia, which does not define their gender, they may or may not have. That is transphobic.

http://queerfeminism.com/2012/03/27/the-cotton-ceiling-is-real-and-its-time-for-all-queer-and-trans-people-to-fight-back/
> I care that you don’t bother to interrogate the origins of your phallus-based distaste for trans women, and think about whether it’s actually a dislike of the organ that’s happening here or whether transphobia and a refusal to view trans women as women is involved.

https://stavvers.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/shit-i-cannot-believe-needs-to-be-said-i-dont-dwell-on-your-genitals/#comment-17515
>. The other is during sex, and even then it really doesn’t matter exactly which way they point. People say “oh, but I just don’t like penises/vulvas”, but that, too, is rooted in cissexism and general poor sex education.

If these people are lying to make MtFs look bad, they're certainly playing the long con.

>>6646044
First one literally says the opposite of what you said.

Second is about gender regardless of genitalia, doesn't say you should love cock.

Third is just to question someone if it's the penis they hate or trans at all.

The fourth is the only one that barely comes close to what you originally said. But that too argues about abstraction of gender based attraction.

You're a dipshit.

File: shame.jpg (8KB, 240x240px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 240x240px

>>6646069
>bud ids an ebidebic!

>>6646069
u wot m8

>you don’t have to date trans women with a penis, and you don’t have to be attracted to penises, but you SHOULD reconsider and rethink why it’s such a hang up for you and consider the trans misogyny tied to those preferences
You should think long and hard about whether or not you're actually attracted to dick or not if it's on an MtF, because odds are not being attracted to it is rooted in your transphobia.

>We are talking about when people want to avoid a whole group of people due to their genitalia. They’re gonna define their orientation as “attracted to x gender/s” and then completely dismiss a whole group of people who are that gender because of genitalia, which does not define their gender, they may or may not have. That is transphobic.
Dismissing somebody of the gender you're attracted to because of their genitalia is transphobic.

> I care that you don’t bother to interrogate the origins of your phallus-based distaste for trans women, and think about whether it’s actually a dislike of the organ that’s happening here or whether transphobia and a refusal to view trans women as women is involved.
Odds are if you don't like dick it's because you're transmysoginistic.

>. The other is during sex, and even then it really doesn’t matter exactly which way they point. People say “oh, but I just don’t like penises/vulvas”, but that, too, is rooted in cissexism and general poor sex education.
Not sleeping with people because of genitals is transphobic.

I don't know how to argue this beyond the direct quotes and me restating the direct quotes, looks pretty fucking clear to me.

>>6646043
see >>6646044

It is the internet. There are people earnestly arguing for all kinds of retarded shit on the internet. I don't think the majority of MtFs are going "if lesbians don't want MtF dick they're totally transphobic TERFs". Like I said, I've yet to come across this behavior IRL. I think it's a tiny minority, but that minority is absolutely out there and they're vocal enough that I've accidentally stumbled on them multiple times.If you have your head up the ass of post modernism, all of this idiocy and more is completely plausible.

>>6646085
That's because there is no argument, none of them said what you said. They haven't advocated any of that bullshit you said.

Talking about misogyny directed to trans women at all has very little to do with them telling you to fuck their dick.

>>6646100
>nuh uh

Okay, you've convinced me.

>>6646089
None of them said that, you confirmed my suspicions.

>>6646089
see:
>>6646069

It's a fake crisis intended to maintain the veneer of queer cis womens' universal victimhood.

>>6646100
>>6646108
Do you guys not see every single one of them saying "reconsider penises if it's on an Mtf, your strong distate is probably rooted in transphobia"? Literally everything I quoted says that, I don't understand what you guys aren't seeing.

>>6646111
see >>6646085

>>6646115
No they're talking about the way you treat trans women, not about fucking trans women. How is this remotely hard to understand?

>>6644611
Women are seen as being superior to men, therefore a man being feminine is seen as equivalent to a peasant pretending to be nobility.

>>6646119
See:
>>6646100
>>6646121

I can do this all day. It's easy because you're lying over and over in the hopes your lies will become more truthful with repetition, similar to how this propaganda started in the first place.

>>6646044
>>6646085
>>6646089
>>6646115
You're an idiot that needs to learn how to read. To say someone's dislike of a penis doesn't make a trans any less of a woman is different than saying you should love penis because it's feminine. Most trans girls hate their junk but can't do anything about it cost wise. How moronic can you be to contrive such a false panic?

>>6646121
>>6646129
These lines are all clearly referring to sexual attraction to penises and fucking, not how you treat trans women platonically.

>you don’t have to be attracted to penises, but you SHOULD reconsider and rethink why it’s such a hang up for you

> They’re gonna define their orientation as “attracted to x gender/s” and then completely dismiss a whole group of people who are that gender because of genitalia [...] That is transphobic.
(dismiss is said here in line with orientation, it's in a sexual context)

>think about whether it’s actually a dislike of the organ that’s happening here or whether transphobia

>People say “oh, but I just don’t like penises/vulvas”, but that, too, is rooted in cissexism and general poor sex education.

>>6646132
But literally none of those quotes are talking about considering a trans woman a man because of her dick. They are all suggesting that repulsion to dick on an MtF woman is rooted in cissexism and transphobia and considering her male deep inside.

>>6646135
>>6646137
Example: I love all men, I hate black people.

Totally not a racist logic. :^)

>>6646151
Example doesn't relate. Those quotes aren't referring to cis lesbians who blanket refuse to date all MtFs on principle. They are referring to lesbians who say that they aren't attracted to pensises, and would not want to be sexually involved with someone who has one regardless of gender. Each one suggests that if she truly considered trans women women, she could probably be fine with dick in a sexual context, since it's attached to an MtF woman. And if she feels otherwise, she should deeply examine her feelings because she's probably transphobic somehow deep down.

>>6646168
No it's the former, it's blanket refusal and it's not limited to lesbians. Anyone that blanket refuses trans women """because they're men""" worded one way or another is definitely being transphobic. There are also gradations like being a vocal racist or a private racist. Often these people are vocally transphobic and that's treated as normal to publicly piss on and humiliate trans people. You're a dumb sack of bricks. I wouldn't date you regardless of your gender or what equipment you had because I hate stupid people.

>>6646181
I totally agree with you, someone who says that they won't date MtFs on principle is being transphobic.

But that's not what the quotes I provided are talking about. They're talking about sexually avoiding people with penises, specifically, regardless of gender. I will requote them again for your convenience, since you apparently haven't read them yet.

>you don’t have to be attracted to penises, but you SHOULD reconsider and rethink why it’s such a hang up for you

> They’re gonna define their orientation as “attracted to x gender/s” and then completely dismiss a whole group of people who are that gender because of genitalia [...] That is transphobic.
(dismiss is said here in line with orientation, it's in a sexual context)

>think about whether it’s actually a dislike of the organ that’s happening here or whether transphobia

>People say “oh, but I just don’t like penises/vulvas”, but that, too, is rooted in cissexism and general poor sex education.

>>6646187
Go read them again and try harder.

>>6646135
>you don’t have to be attracted to penises, but you SHOULD reconsider and rethink why it’s such a hang up for you
>They’re gonna define their orientation as “attracted to x gender/s” and then completely dismiss a whole group of people who are that gender because of genitalia [...] That is transphobic.
In context, this was in reference to someone saying "I'm not attracted to trans people" as if you can absolutely always tell which genitalia someone has in their underwear by looking at them, automatically tell that they have a penis, and automatically deem them unattractive for having a penis... even if they don't have one which accounts for many trans women. Just because a person discovers that the individual they were originally attracted to is trans, it doesn't mean that they weren't attracted to them in the first place. It just means they're sexually incompatible after the knowledge of their genitalia enters the equation. This retcon of a person's original attraction, the lie that it never happened, is what is being interrogated and analyzed. It's not trying to force lesbians to date or have sex with trans people. It's trying to break down the elements of stigma and bias in a statement that denotes gross and unfair overgeneralization about a select subset of a group.

>think about whether it’s actually a dislike of the organ that’s happening here or whether transphobia
>People say “oh, but I just don’t like penises/vulvas”, but that, too, is rooted in cissexism and general poor sex education.
Same concept as above. There is nothing about genitalia that would make an observer find you unattractive if they don't know about it, just because you're sexually incompatible when they do. I find plenty of people of a certain gender attractive that I'm not sexually compatible with. It doesn't make them retroactively not attractive, and it doesn't make them not that gender if I'm not sexually compatible with them.

>>6644611
>Why are guys so accepting towards FTMs
They are? I think they're fucking weird, why would anyone willingly be a guy?
Unless they're a buttugly girl.
>MtF are hated
From what little I know, apparently /lgbt/ claims they ALL demand lesbians fuck them.

>>6646225
Just fanning the flames at this point huh?

>>6644826
But why tho

>>6645468
>MRAs are almost all terrified that they are effeminate boys, and thus could be treated like women.
i'm not. i love being effeminate and wish i was cis female.

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>>6644611
It's all about cuteness.

If you're cute as a mtf, men and woman will accept you.

When will you finally understand, that cuteness is key?!

It's not a fucking social construct thing or anything. Cispeople don't care, whether you have agp or not! They don't even know, what that is!

It's all about your looks, your behaviour, your voice and the overall feeling they have being around you.
That's all.

Waiting for a wild hon to appear.

>>6646569
>tfw agp but not cute

Because FTM don't want to trick them into being gay/getting AIDS.

>>6646575
must be hard getting off your own cuteness, if it is not present. I feel for you.

>>6646603
i've pretty much entirely disassociated myself mentally from my body. i look at pic of cute girls and imagine i'm them and looking in the mirror doesn't even make me dysphoric because i barely see myself. i couldn't describe my face.

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>>6646610
Nice form of escapism.

But maybe you have prosopagnosia (not being able to recognize faces of familiar people), too?

pic unrelated

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>>6644977

>MUH RESOURCES

>>6646619
i can recognize people i just can't describe them.

Women hate anything remotely challenging, men will rise to one.

Strangely enough I always thought cis women would hate trannies and so far every cis women i have told has been nothing but accommodating to me. Its breddy cash getting a random female family member to eagerly do my makeup

>>6646719
I'm so proud of all the progress you've made, Kayla.

I'm glad you're putting yourself out there, and getting the positive responses you needed.

>>6646744
um... thanks

>>6646764
>>6646744
Are you both hons

>>6646569
I think this sums it up, looks make up most of it.

>>6646774
I'm not, I only dress in guy clothes

>>6646719
But you won't know if they gossip behind your back no?

>>6646774
of course lol. how new are you?

>>6646795
Extremely. Does anyone have a compilation of all the hon tripfags on this board?

>>6645809
>saying men don't complain constantly too
>on 4chan

>>6646795
Kayla's not really a hon, just overly dramatic and kind of crazy. She could probably pass pretty well if she put enough effort into it.

>>6647485
read: if she stopped dressing like her grandmother

>>6646793
This. They talk about everyone else, why would we be an exception.

>>6644611
>while women usually reject MTFs in totality
Most women don't reject mtfs though, it's only the autistic lesbo terfs.

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lolz because men and women are different god don't they teach this generation anything in school ?