What's your favorite ancient weapon, /k/? Mine is the Kanabō.

>>35148943
I have a preference for early poleaxes (hammer and axe only, dane axe-like.). I know late ones are better, but I find them aesthetic.

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>>35148943
We all know the real reason you like the kanabo, OP.

>>35148943
Halberd will forever be the patrician answer.

>>35148943
falx

>>35148943

I am partial to the kanabo myself, as well as the naginata and wakizashi combo. Good choice OP.

I want an odachi /Nodachi. (Very long bladed katana)

Apparently, an odachi is larger, so that would be the one i want. I'll make one if i have to.

K A T Z B A L G E R

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>>35148943
Trebuchet

>>35152085
werent trebuchets invented in china?

>>35152139
Yes, the Chinese navy were the first to use traction based trebuchet which used other people with ropes as the counterweight.

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The Scottish Claymore. My Scottish highland blood won't let me pick anything else.

One of the best and well balanced two-handed swords ever made. Long enough to cut a man down from a horse, short enough to still be an effective battlefield weapon.

Anyone got manuals for the Kanabo

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>>35148943
Naginata is fun! so FUN!

>>35152326
"claymore" used to mean the one handed basket hilted sword though, claymore as a two hander is a victorian definition. Sword and targe or even smallsword are much more scottish than a two hander btw.

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>>35152478

Woah, another naginatafag. That's pretty rare! RARE!

I also like o-katana and the Indian tulwar.

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The francisca throwing axe. Good in battle, and around camp.

>>35152432
Or even manuals for glaives

>>35152516
At least I get to practice it to know how it feels and actually it feels great.

Also, who says "o-katana" exactly?

>>35152590
>>35152432
There's not much manuals for japanese weapons considering how their traditions were passed from one to the other, and there's no styles that have kanabo techniques anyway.

For glaives, some early HEMA treatises will have you use spears and such in a similar fashion. As much as it hurts me, I know that George Silver talks about using the glaive and other short polearms.

>>35152611
If spears work in a similar fashion to glaives I'll take a look. Thanks

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Lakonian Short Sword - a Spartan's favorite weapon. Not a spear, not a sword, but a 2 1/2ft serrated blade. Meant for up-close, eye-to-eye combat - which Spartans excelled at.

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A spear or halberd for most things. A knife and hand ax/tomahawk for backup and general camp tasks.

>>35152622
"Some" people used spears and glaive similarly, not all. You might want to look at this if you haven't:
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Pole_Weapons

>>35152432
>manual

It's a fucking stick, not a VCR. Why do you need a manual?

Imagine something more complicated than a stick. Something like a rock.

Rocks and sticks.
High tech shit...

>>35152635
>serrated
Source?

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them proportions

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>>35152993
Oh, and here's the most aesthetic sword ever made.

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>>35148943
>ancient
That'd have to be the Macedonian sarissa.

>>35152952
There were tons of manuals for using sticks, staves, canes and the likes.
Everybody can hit stuff with a stick, but it's another thing to be able to fight with it efficiently.
And frankly, a VCR doesn't need a manual for you to make it work, it's quite easy enough.

>>35152952
I figured there was more to swinging an unbalanced weapon than what is apparent.
If it were me I would discard it after the initial attack and use a spear or a more practical weapon. My thinking was that after 1000 years of fighting a country would come up with more than, "swing really hard and fast, but don't die" when using a weapon that is inherently unbalanced and so difficult to recover with. If there is no such thing as a manual for this weapon then that is also fine.

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>>35152326
I hate to break it to you but in the context that you're using claymore it's essentially just a sword toward the large end of longswords often with specific hilt hardware.

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>>35153317
There certainly seems to be more to fighting than just "swing at the other guy". Distance, timing, body mechanics, and then how this or that weapon interacts with it all. And perhaps even more importantly psychological conditioning so you'll actually be in a state to try and make use of all the rest when it's time.

As for manuals the various Japanese schools never seem to have been big on writing down things the way some European masters were. What manuals or similar texts exist are written more for those already well versed in the art, to help them remember perhaps rather than teach anything new, and sometimes intentionally written to be as indecipherable as possible to the uninitiated. This would be due both to a desire for secrecy, but also because trying to learn from a written text instead of an actual teacher is inefficient at best, making such a text limited in usefulness, and the effort of writing it of questionable worth.

While attitudes regarding secrecy at least may have softened a bit today, I know of no existing koryu that has the kanabo as part of its curriculum.

>>35152590
Nothing specific that I've heard of, but between Mair's staff and halberd sections and Marozzo's assorted polearms you could probably get somewhere.

>>35152635
>not a sword, but a 2 1/2ft serrated blade
Yet your picture looks very much like a decidedly un-serrated sword.

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"boar spear" type spears. Ones small enough to use one handed and with the little wings that keep the victim away and can be used to hook shields.

>>35152635
Not true at all, Spartans used phalanx warfare just like all the other Greek states. Perhaps before their battle with the Argives ( when the phalanx was invented ) they used medium length leaf swords, but that would have been the MO across Greece, not just in Sparta. Also Sparta was so successful in war not because they were superior, but often because they outnumbered their enemies by 3-1

>>35152997
I didn't know sarissas were takedown weapons. Thanks Anon.

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>>35154040
Those would be winged spears. Better than trying to kill a boar through plain old buggery, but not a type specifically mean for it (though a specific ones were), most were probably intended for long pig instead. The boar spear as a specific style will tend towards a proportionally somewhat wider blade with a strengthening midrib, and instead of the "wings"/lugs it has a more or less flexible toggle instead, be it a cross-piece that can rotate around like here, or even a bone piece on a short leather strap as will be the case next.

It feels like there's been an unlikely amount of people around calling winged spears boar spears as of late. Some popular piece of fiction of youtube guru who claimed such recently? Yet another sin Cold Steel will have to answer for?

>>35154056
For much of their glory days it also seems they were the only ones who bothered with any form of regular military training as well, so their success may reflect more on the rest than on the spartans. Then again, their most famous success was for their cream of the crop to fail holding the most defensible position in all of Greece and getting butchered to the man in the process, so trying logic here may be waltzing on thin ice.

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While not an "ancient" weapon. I love longswords

I hope that one day I'll have the disposable income to buy something from Peter Johnsson

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As for ancient, I'm never really one for favourites, but a neat one that seems to fly under the radar for most is the Mindelheim-type swords.

>>35154262
>It feels like there's been an unlikely amount of people around calling winged spears boar spears as of late. Some popular piece of fiction of youtube guru who claimed such recently? Yet another sin Cold Steel will have to answer for?
I actually thought it was the other way around with the names. I apologize for the hypercorrection.

>>35152478
>"claymore" used to mean the one handed basket hilted sword though, claymore as a two hander is a victorian definition. Sword and targe or even smallsword are much more scottish than a two hander btw.

So wrong really. Both the backsword style and two handed Scottish swords (and their Irish mercenary variants) have been labelled as claymore over the centuries. The recent fad of American teenagers strapping padding to themselves hitting each other with mass produced reproductions has lead to an over emphasis on the two handed sword, which even at the time of its use in Scotland was effectively obsolete. You can pretty much ignore anything on the internet that features the words Zweihänder or claymore (note the e) as teens desperate to own some sort of weapon are drawn to mass produced replicas of two handed swords like flies to shit and having a confirmation bias about their purchase proceed to spout shit regurgitated from whatever motivated them to but their toy about them on any corner of the internet. Nearly all of it is egregiously incorrect

>>35152648
Those cheap sog tomahawks are fun.

>>35152996
The Wallace collection is a good place to look at real swords. Sadly it has been used as a resource by reproduction manufacturers so avoid anything representing itself as an antique that resembles anything in the Wallace collection.

>>35153744
>context that you're using claymore it's essentially just a sword toward the large end of longswords often with specific hilt hardware.

There is a distinct identifiable line of swords that the word claymore has been applied to that have characteristics other than being just big two handed swords and there are further identifying features that segregate the Scottish ad Irish versions if you research them properly. I sadly do not post any information on the internet about the topic as I do not want to encourage the replica sword markets designers or its misguided consumers to rape another part of European arms heritage.

>>35152574
>a fucking hatchet

The funniest thing about the two handed sword obsessives is that they believe that the swords had a major military impact or were in use for very long. The most often touted myth is that their role was to charge pike lines to break them up. This may have occurred in a vry short phase in Germany however their main use in actuality was never combat with armed opponents. As a point of note the modern reproductions are by and large junk for teens in padded suits to slap each other with in a ritual dance called hema and have little or no bearing on the historical artefact or its use.

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>>35152326
>that tiny left arm

>>35155146
http://www.encasedinsteel.co.uk/2015/02/06/what-is-a-claymore/

Both have been labelled claymore, that much is true, but the two-hander that saw some use by the scottish was called claymore in the 19th century, long after the broadsword had replace it and long after both became obsolete.

I really don't get why you felt the need to reference teenager and large two-hander by the way. And I don't know what's wrong in my sentence when you aren't saying much more than what I have...

>>35155251
Hopefully you posting in a malaysian engraving forum know much more than them and everybody. Hopefully you also know not to disclose anything that might give you credit and only shitpost people, much safer for everyone!

>>35155459
>I really don't get why you felt the need to reference teenager and large two-hander by the way. And I don't know what's wrong in my sentence when you aren't saying much more than what I have...

Probably just the fake and gay guy trying to mix up his game a bit. He's got a very special relationship with reality. If you've missed him, see >>35073188

>>35153963
> What manuals or similar texts etc
It's not like European sources are any different with regards to this. HEMAfags extrapolated an entire martial art out of essentially smoke.

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>>35155569
Compared to the Japanese we seem to have a reasonable selection of master who for one reason or another felt that the art should be penned down as well as was possible. Some for advertisement or to sell books, Fiore appears to have considered the written manuscript a necessary complement to practical studies, and Mair fearing the art would die out and thus aiming his work pretty much directly at today's HEMA circuit.

This material obviously doesn't replace a living lineage, but systematic and scientifically-minded study of it should most definitely allow for a far better (and if it goes on in general ever-improving) approximation than anything we could ever hope for otherwise.

>>35155459
>Both have been labelled claymore, that much is true, but the two-hander that saw some use by the scottish was called claymore in the 19th century, long after the broadsword had replace it and long after both became obsolete.


Wrong. Sorry. I refer you to the publication "sixteenth century swords in Ireland", jounal o the royal society of antiquaries in Ireland volume LXXVII (1948) or the 'journal of the arms and armor society' volume two 1956.

The internet has provided a toxic layer of misinformation and the spread of it. The etymology of the word claymore lies in Scots Irish Gaelic yes, claíomh meaning sword
Mor meaning large. It was term applied since the 18th century or a large sword including particular varieties and forms of two handed swords. There exist distinct Irish and Scottish varieties of both and are most often associated with mercenaries preying on civilian populations. They were already as I say effectively obsolete and no rival to either the backsword or rapier/transitional small sword. Bows are universally depicted as being carried by those who utilised them. However their purpose was broadly speaking not combat with armed opposition although that may have occurred. I'll leave you to figure out what two handed swords were mainly used for. Try not to use the internet as a resource.

>>35155641
>applied since the 18th century

Sorry typo 16th

>>35155569
It's almost like historical instructions are impossible to decipher for whatever reasons. Texts referenced in period sources and methods of known historical fencing instructors aren't exactly smoke.
What you're doing now...

>>35155659
>It's almost like historical instructions are impossible to decipher for whatever reasons. Texts referenced in period sources and methods of known historical fencing instructors aren't exactly smoke. What you're doing now...


Such texts were almost certainly not used by the illiterate mercenaries who used two handed swords in the 16th century and are almost certainly in the case of two handed swords near fantasy words for court sports based on Arthurian obsessions. Literacy was not a widespread phenomenon and such texts had (with some rare exceptions) an extraordinarily narrow distribution or readership Two handed swords were NEVER the choice of those who were highly trained swordmen who choose backswords and then rapiers.

>>35155524
>Probably just the fake and gay guy trying to mix up his game a bit. He's got a very special relationship with reality. If you've missed him, see

Does actual knowledge upset you?

Hands up who knows what two handed swords were actually broadly referred to as or what they were actually used for?

Hint
Not charging pike lines or generally combat with armed opponents (it did happen but that was NOT there primary purpose)

hint two
Not claymore (outside celtic speaking areas) and not zweihander outside Germanic speaking areas

Who knows what they were called and what they were used for?

>>35155735
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFW6yUlgGdI

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I did always like the look of the Guan Dao.

>>35153118
you missed the joke.

I didn't mean a stickFIGHTING manual. I meant a manual for the stick itself. Like something that comes in the box with the thing.

>>35155696
I wasn't speaking specifically about two-handed swords and some of the texts authors were teachings in salles and in courts so yeah, their instructions were used to fence, sometimes to the death.
You could argue that many period fencing treatises were made by not-so-knowledgeable people, but we know that it's not the case of several of them that were acknowledged in their times and are important in today's practices (Fabris for instance).

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>>35155735
Throughout history there existed a number of different two handers, with different names (and sometimes different names applied to much the same sword in different regions, or the same name being applied to different swords for various reasons). The answer here will most likely depend on what exactly you consider a two handed sword as well. Odds are they weren't all made for the same, single reason either. But to mention one thing they, or at least some of them, seems to have been good at around the European rennaisance, it'd be keeping superior numbers at bay.

“If a man is compelled to defend his life, and to ensure that he is able to secure his person without having regard for anyone else. For this purpose, [the montante] is good, or for clearing space [in a crowd]."

Díaz de Viedma, Luis, Metodo de enseñanza [sic] demaestros en la ciencia filosofica de la verdaderadestreza matematica de la [sic] armas, Barcelona, 1639.

"since [the montante] can deal with all [weapons], even if they are double [weapons], with which one can oppose two or three at a time"

Pérez de Mendoza y Quijada, Miguel, Resumen de la verdadera destreza de las armas en treinta y ocho asserciones, Madrid, 1675.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zjzmddilmhz/Figueiredo_Montante.pdf

"But because one may with it (as a galleon among many galleys) resist many Swords, or other weapons: Therefore in the wars, it is used to be place near unto the Ensign or Ancient, for the defense thereof, because, being of itself able to contend with many, it may the better safeguard the same. And it is accustomed to be carried in the City, aswell by night as by day, when it so chances that a few are constrained to withstand a great many."

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Giacomo_di_Grassi

>Not claymore (outside celtic speaking areas)
The other way around, claymore is the thoroughly English word, created out of old Scottish claidheamh mor.

[link spamblocked]

>>35155896

No one has answered. Here are the correct answers

The answer is slaughterswords and they were mainly utilized against unarmed mobs by processional bodyguards. This lead to their being occasionally utilized by the same bodyguards in the ceremonial role of protection of standards or banners. Their use in germany as a perverse method of field punishment by forced suicide charge wielding them points more to the dark humor and horror of the time than their broad function. Any people who became landless and were forced to join mercenary companies to live needed some harsh demonstration of discipline, vital to pike warfare.

Your choice being elevation by several pikes as a method of death or taking teh option of running straight as the enemy to near certain death. The fact that you are the lowest of the low at that juncture but have been given a weapon that was primarily for crowd control by bodyguards.

The Arthurian obsessions of the period were reflected in many ways and games/sports involving two handed swords featured. Such manuals also included methods to exhibit pointless tricks for flair to impress the audience.
Again, highly trained swordmen who were equipping to face armed opponents did not utilize them. With the advent of firearms you see a more effective crowd control option and they become obsolete.

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>>35155912
And for the link, google Mac's picturetrail, then click "The Word 'Claymore' by Claude Blair" in the bottom left. Or see pic and go manual.

>>35155937
>I refer you to the publication "sixteenth century swords in Ireland", jounal o the royal society of antiquaries in Ireland volume LXXVII (1948) or the 'journal of the arms and armor society' volume two 1956.

>>35155912
>of old Scottish claidheamh mor

Old Scottish as you call it and irish gaelic are the same language, te Irish having effectively colonized scotland . Please just try and learn and stop reading the same dire crap reedited and spread endlessly. Yes academia is a wasteland these days but it was not always so.

>>35155641
Well that's nice but I don't intend to go to Ireland or spend some dosh to be proven wrong but I'll gladly imagine that the book you are refering to does, even though it's more than half a century old. I'll even more gladly let you quote the damn thing or answer your own question, frankly I don't give a damn about being your answering pet or the usage of the two-handed sword in the XVIth century...

>sixteenth century swords in Ireland
Get with time, even academics use the internet.

>>35155735
Probably executions or some gay shit.

if you want to fill your brain with falsehoods then learning via google is the way to go about it. I hasten to point out that aaron schwartzs obsession with the copyrighting industry's profiteering from academic texts was very insightful and he was an admirable individual. It is what has lead to the internet being full of crap.

>>35155917
Aaand sources kind lord?

>>35156013
>Probably executions or some gay shit.

Crowd control against unarmed uppity mobs basically.

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>>35156031

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>>35156039
Or even quite well armed mobs it seems.

"Therefore in the wars, it is used to be place near unto the Ensign or Ancient, for the defense thereof, because, being of itself able to contend with many, it may the better safeguard the same."

>>35152478
>not superior nagimaki
Pleb

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Khopesh. Ancient Egyptian axe-turned-sword and A E S T E T I C as fuck!

>>35156031
I am summarizing a plethora of reading and sources. e.g

CE whitelaw "scottish weapons"
scottish history and life J.Paton

1597 inventory of opponents weapons by Scots in defeat of chitchester "sloughe swords" to open and find you page and publication references of what I am stating would take hours as there are very many.Why are you so resistant to truth and learning?

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>>35155190
>I sadly do not post any information on the internet about the topic
That's a copout if I've ever seen it. Unless you can give me something to go on, even so much as books to check out, this pretty much amounts to "nuh-uh."

>>35156031
"with their slaughter-swords"

1569 act to attain shane o'neil statutes at large

>>35156170
>>I sadly do not post any information on the internet about the topic
>That's a copout if I've ever seen it. Unless you can give me something to go on, even so much as books to check out, this pretty much amounts to "nuh-uh."


>>35156196
>"with their slaughter-swords"
>1569 act to attain shane o'neil statutes at large

>>35156160
>CE whitelaw "scottish weapons"
>scottish history and life J.Paton
>1597 inventory of opponents weapons by Scots in defeat of chitchester "sloughe swords"
>>35155956
>I refer you to the publication "sixteenth century swords in Ireland", jounal o the royal society of antiquaries in Ireland volume LXXVII (1948) or the 'journal of the arms and armor society' volume two 1956.

>>35156073
>Or even quite well armed mobs it seems.
>"Therefore in the wars, it is used to be place near unto the Ensign or Ancient, for the defense thereof, because, being of itself able to contend with many, it may the better safeguard the same."


The duck foot pistol is a similar function weapon as is modern teargas canister.

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>>35156196
He's probably German. Schlachterschwert (I may have gotten some letter wrong) can more or less translate as either slaughter sword or battle sword depending on your mood. Turn sup in Swedish as "slagsvärd", which won't translate to anything but battle sword, and which correlates quite well to what we in English could call a warsword, ie the early greatswords. The later, larger greatswords being simply "tvåhandssvärd", two handed swords there, which I would suspect would be the case in German too (zweihandsschwert) but I can't guarantee it.

>>35156254
Hes an Irish Lord in rebellion. Quite famous.

>>35156254
It is an English man referring to him in basically an arrest warrant

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>>35156203
>"with their slaughter-swords"

Right off the bat I feel like you saw a (you) and didn't bother to see which string it was attached to. We're not talking about use and while I suppose it wouldn't be accurate to say we aren't discussing nomenclature this string is mostly about the features that would differentiate a claymore from a particularly large longsword. Are any of those sources particularly good for that?

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Zhongyuan Iron Dagger Axe.

The best weapon of ancient age

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Don't know much about swords and the like, but I've always enjoyed the Spatha, because it seems like a mid-length single handed sword is pretty general purpose.

I might be talking out of my ass though.

>>35156076
Well maybe I would If I'd practice it but I don't, also it's nagamaki (unless it's negimaki?).
The typical nagamaki's grip is a bit too wide for my taste anyway.

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Kanabos are perfect for drunkard, lecherous oni retainers.

>>35148943
the gun

>>35152432
Yeah, but they're rare. Most were made automatic sadly for normies to use around town.

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>>35156863
pic related

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>>35156122
>its just a fancy kukuri

>>35156431
I saw the toys in your picture and QED don't really have anything to talk about with you. Fake history, fake products, fake people, faking knowledge.

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>>35156938
>I can't post proof because I don't like the pictures you're posting
Not very convincing, I'm starting to think that >>35155524 is correct.

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>>35156863
>And now my lord this is my last technique
>Just carry a gun and shoot the fucker

>>35152997
Imagine being one of the guys that had to ride a horse at full speed at a phalanx of these

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I like axes and big knives.
>Why?
Because those are the only "Ancient" weapons i have experience with aside from a brief lesson on sword with a professional LARPer.

on the upside its the same weapons of the last few generations of men who came before me.