If stealth isn't a meme then why did the Air force go for

>>35112025
F-23 also had larger payload.

It had hand made tiles or some shit so it wouldn't melt it's own ass off.

man that was a gorgeous plane.

>>35112025
Don't worry. China will make your dreams come true.

>>35112025
>he doesn't know about the fighter mafia

Air jousting is where it's at, OP. BVR is for people who care about winning "real" wars, not the only war - the budget war.

>>35112454
Name an actual war between countries that actually matter that was won with BVR air combat.

because all 10 yf-23s digested their pilots and made kamikaze runs at the flight control tower, now lets never speak of this again

>>35112479
Gulf War

Because stealth is a meme sold to know nothing generals in the Pentagon by military contractors that needed a new "feature" to sell so they could charge astronomical development and manufacturing costs for new planes.

Need to keep that MIC churning one way or another.

File: 1311685267489.png (95KB, 273x288px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 273x288px

>>35112560
>country that matters
>Iraq at any point in history.

>>35112025
Because Northrop didn't have a great "actually getting it to mass production" record at the time.

>>35112600
>F-22
>mass production run
Anon, I...

>>35112619
>at the time
They cancelled the F-22 orders in the early 2000's. The ATF competition took place in the 90's.

>>35112086
YF-23 had a smaller payload wtf
EMD wasn't a proposal until validation, at which point Northrop would have already lost to the YF-22.

Why couldn't the USAF just have bought both F-22s and F-23s?

>>35113639
>imblying the F-23s weren't secretly purchased as stealthy F-111 & F-117 replacement

>>35112479
That air battle we had against Libyan fighter jets with out F-14's.

>>35113670
Our*

>>35112025
They wanted to keep at least two aircraft producers in business. If they had gone with Boeing that would have been it for military aircraft contractors other than Boeing.

>>35112025

>Lower RCS

Partially true the F-22 has better frontal aspect stealth which is more beneficial over all.

>Faster

It had a higher supercruise by around .15-.2 mach and had faster acceleration, but both aircraft were limited to mach 2 because of skin heating.

>Longer range

Truth due to more efficient cruising

>Superior BVR

Here I'm not sure, they were both going to use the same radar correct? How is the 23 superior here?

There were plenty of other concerns with the YF-23 at the time and with Northrop as a whole.

The B2 program had cost overruns that make the F-35 program look like a joke, and the structure of the YF-23's weapons bay would have led to excessive wearing issues and much higher projected maintenance costs.

These issues combined with Lockheed showing up to impress with a very aggressive testing schedule for the 22, and the first YF-23 test flight in front of the brass being cancelled due to the avionics going crazy all led to the decision that as made.

Honestly I wish both aircraft had been produced, and with some more work the 23 would probably be a better fighter to have today, but it's no surprise to me that the YF-22 was chosen based on the data available at the time.

>>35112590
It mattered enough for 3 of your dumbass presidents to attack it. Dumbass.

>>35112025
if murica isnt all about lobbyism why they didnt choose the clearly superior in every way airbus a330 as their new tanker and instead remade the whole process literally rigging the competition giving it to boeing?

really lets me fire up my neurons

>>35112584
This.

>>35112025
Northrop had just fucked up the B-2 program and they were partnered with McDonnell who had just fucked up the A-12 program. They could have shown up to the competition with flying robot Jesus and they would have lost

>>35113760
It's also important to note that lockheeds previous offering, the F-117 ended up being ahead of schedule and under budget.

There's no question the YF-23 offered the advantages we needed more than the advantages offered by YF-22, long-term.
However, the YF-23 was both more expensive and more ambitious. And it could easily have turned into an even bigger boondoggle than the F-22 was post-Cold War. We have only 187 Raptors today, but we'd probably have even fewer F-23s, possibly substantially fewer had we chosen it. If it ran into problems, it's conceivable the program may have been cancelled in its entirety once the wall fell.

>>35113699
That might actually have been a major factor in the decision.

>>35115168
Anon, the A330 never had a chance to win, it was just there to give the illusion of a real tender instead of handing the contract directly to Boeing. But someone in the Pentagon fucked up and used the real data instead of the made up one.

>>35112025
The projected FA-XX is going to be a very stealthy, large payload, long range plane. The only thing it will likely not have in common with the F-23 is top speed and maneuvrability, which are considered less important nowadays.
Going by program demands it's going to be a very stealthy missile truck.

>>35115217
this anon is correct

>>35115285
i remember that shitshows since 2003 when they discovered that boeing went all retard and just created data out of the blue sky
the joint chiefs found out btfo them rerun the process and somehow boeing was AGAIN on it and they protest that airbus won resulting on a new process to beging that literally photographed 767 as the only competitior

File: Sodor.png (234KB, 500x400px) Image search: [Google]

234KB, 500x400px

>>35112584
>>35115200
>people actually believe this

It is my hope that the Black Widow II is one day reborn as the first US space capable fighter or something. That airframe is too damn sexy to just disappear into history.