How can you suppress fire if you have to change magazines

You don't, and the marines are stupid for going with the IAR and not even outfitting 40+ round mags like other nations do.

fire extinguishers

>>35107536
I mean, if there were multiple guns per squad then you could alternate, one shoots one reloads, but a single gun per squad is quite retarded.

>>35107536
By firing in small bursts instead of holding down the trigger? Honestly though they should be supplied at least 60 round magazines.

>>35107536
One guy with 30 rounds can't do much.
10 guys with 30 rounds however can get a lot more accomplished.

this question is pretty spasticated, if you want to even consider suppression you move in a section or squad meaning a group of 9 guys can alternate/burst fire

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>>35107574
The other lads in the outfit's got guns to, guv

Just because there isnt a bullet whizzing past you every second doesnt mean you want to start sticking out your head, since you know, there are still people shooting at you.

>>35107804
but if you don't use most of your magazine you wont get any xp for the suppression!

>>35107804
This. Deliberate fire is one round every 6 seconds, rapid fire is one round every 2 seconds. In deliberate fire you can also alternate with your battle buddy, because one round whizzing over your head will keep you pinned as well as two rounds, and you arent gunna be bobbing up and down like a jack in the box anyway. And while one guy laying down fire isnt massively suppressive, a section or weapons team laying down fire very much is. Hence fire and manouver.

>>35107778
>reading comprehension

>>35107536
>How can you suppress fire if you have to change magazines every thirty rounds?
Full auto isn't necessary for suppressive fire.

>>35107590
but how is that any different than the m4's they already have, that already do that?

>>35107536

Theoretically suppressing fire is to keep the enemy pinned so you can flank them from the sides.

I honestly call BS as LMGs cause the majority of kills in infantry engagements. Meaning that while the suppress-flank maneuver *MAY* be sound, the MG winds up killing more people due to the high volume of fire anyways. Reducing the volume of fire by swapping an M249 out for an IAR is retarded.

Not that it matters in the least though, becuse the IAR was just an excuse to ditch them m16 and replace it with an HK 416. The Marines are still using m249s anyways.

>>35108022
>retarded nigger

>>35107554
Makes me want an AUG. Them 42s are hawt.

>>35107564
Ken

>>35107578
Then why not just keep the 3 round burst?

>>35108153
yeah but who cares about the M249, the M240 is where it's at

>>35108191
M240 is so fucking heavy

>>35107590
>entire squad suppressing
>nobody moving while the squad's suppressing
Do you not understand the purpose of suppressive fire?

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>>35107536
Not understanding how the marine corp meanders(naval pun) around bullshit weapons procurement to get what they want without the bullshit.
>m27 is slated to be the new service rifle for all marines(inf)
But why a piston?
>longevity
Same reason why the French threw out there famas's for a new service rifle altogether, because the camas rifles were so old and shitty it was more economic to just scrap them. Piston ARs don't give increase reliability over di ARs. But they do increase there life of service. Something that the marines need due to there abismal budget.

>>35108214
keep the locals in place until an A-10 arrives?
>>35108207
Every review I've read of the M240 went something like this:
>god damn this thing is an uncomfortable, ugly, heavy, son of a bitch and I hated carrying it every single second of my miserable foot slogging existance
>until the action started and it was worth every pound and more 10/10 I love this gun

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I can tell that you guys, unlike me, have never served.

>be inna muhreens
>have M16A2 3 round burst
>never use it
They just want piston guns

>>35108207
>the M240L weighs less than the standard M249

>>35108191
We had weapons platoon folded into our line platoons in Iraq. Some of them wanted to patrol with a 240 but weren't allowed too. They all got stuck with a 249, the 240's we're mounted.

As for OP's question, I think it's fucking stupid as well. But considering modern war, maybe it's just considered not necessary. They were still training ww2 tactics back in SOI in 2007, and today probably.

And to the fagazoids who say no different than just an m4, it would still go full auto, which an m16A4 or m4 wouldn't.

>>35108255
So, if the only thing they wanted was full auto, spend the $50 to replace the FCG of their M4's with the M4A1 FCG and now you have full auto.

Or hell, just buy M4A1's if they wanted "new" rifles. Even with the SOCOM barrel profile they're still a full pound lighter than the M27.

>>35108247
>Hi I'm a retarded bitch, please come fuck my face

Unless 22 pounds weighs less 17 in your universe. Or 7.62 weighs less than 5.56. the uninitiated never count ammo weight.

>>35108266
Well considering m4's tend to FTF on burst, they probably want something that's more dependable for full auto.

>>35108266
Pistons for longevity. The marine corp doesn't have the money to upkeep shit. Having a piston system increases the lifespan of the rifles allowing them to do there job for many deployments. The m4s are already hand me downs from the army. Dropping in full auto sears doesn't make them any less old and shitty.

>>35108268
The standard M249 weighs 19.3lbs unloaded without optic. The M249 Para (17lb) or PIP (16.5lb) or SPW (13lb) weigh less, which is why I specifically specified standard. Yes, the wiki page lists the weight for the Para in the specs chart on the right.

The M240L weighs 18.8lbs unloaded without optic.

Nice try, thanks for playing.

>technically a scaled-up M249 and not a derivative of the M240, the Mk48 weighs 18.5lbs unloaded without optic

>>35108279
That's due to the burst mechanism being retarded and the gov't metrics for counting stoppages being even more retarded, and is not something the full auto group does.

>>35108281
>pistons for longevity
But that's just flat out untrue.

>>35108268
>the uninitiated never count ammo weight
Doesn't really matter, you will be carrying too much ammo regardless of which caliber you're carrying.
>oh 5.56 weighs less than 7.62?
>Guess you can carry more then!
>b-but I'm already carrying 1000 rounds...
>Too bad, MOAR AMMO!

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>>35107536
>>35107554
>>35107578
>>35108153
>>35108222
Would it be viable to given the M27 a belt fed conversion?

>>35108335
Exactly as viable as giving an M4 a belt fed conversion, as the conversion changes literally everything differentiating the two rifles.

>>35108335
Might as well just develop a more durable rpk style drum mag that actually works

>>35108299
Nope. You're wrong. M240l weighs 22.3 lbs. Regular 27 pounds.

(It's on Wikipedia, which apparently you can't use)

>>35108222
>ARs don't give increase reliability over di ARs. But they do increase there life of service. Something that the marines need due to there abismal budget.
This is 100% bullshit
ARs already have a crazy long service life. Do you have sources to back that up?

>>35108357
I carried a 240L for 5 years. We would weigh them regularly because it was funny.

Even with optic none of ours weighed over 20lbs.

Interestingly, there was about a 1lb variance between the 5 M240L's we had in inventory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydA5Y86crsw

>ITT

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>>35108332
>Said the guy who never carried it

>>35108378
>Interestingly, there was about a 1lb variance between the 5 M240L's we had in inventory.
Wait really? Where could that weight come from? Did the weight ever vary or increase?

>>35108378
I was a SAW Gunner for 1 tour. How'd you have it for 5? Damn I thought the Marines we're bad at promotions.

Also, what did you weigh them on a bathroom scale?

ITT: no mention of the USMC adopting magpul D60's

>>35108419
Still in evaluation

>>35108406
Differences come from machining, metal density, stuff like that. 2 cars of the same model could have dozens of lbs of weight difference.

>>35108419
D60 in gucci marine brown when

>>35107838
This.

Semi auto is for suppresion. Burst and full giggle are for killing things.

You only suppress with full auto at extreme ranges. Because you are being outraged and you just need a beat zone to either move up or retreat.

>>35108281
>The m4s are already hand me downs from the army

The handmedown myth is persistent.

>>35108419
Standard load for saw gunner
>200rnd in weapon
>extra 2 200rnd carried
>additional carried in ruck or ammo bearer if needed
>600rnds for basic kit
>600/60=10 mags instead of 3 200rnd boxes.
Not trying to say that you are retarded but would this be viable? To carry ten of these throughout your gear and also more because you know. You will always have to carry moar. So where talking like 15+ mags.

>>35108244
Correction, the marines want 'their' rifle, not a rifle they share with the army.

>>35107536


>muh chrome moly vanadium barrell

The marines were a mistake.

>>35107536
Jesus fuck why
M249s are fine with proper maintenance and functional not old ass parts, but the army and marines are too dumb for that.

M240B is where it's at. Yes, it's heavier. Yes, the ammo is heavier. But it's the highest casualty producing small arm in the military. The new shit won't have the same range, rate of fire, ammo capacity, etc, as the M240B.

Remeber, it's based on the FN MAG, which is also kickass.

If the technology existed, I would replace my dick with an M240B. Because that's how great it is.

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WW1 learned us stuff.

>>35108531
>killing everything you fuck
might as well have AIDS desu

>>35108494
>M27
>SAW

Not saying you are retarded but...

>>35108488
I got a m16a4 from the infantry with in my army division. They got m4a1 new. For that division deployment to Iraq.

I know, because of the paint markings on the buttock and worn appearance of the weapon.

Still nicer than the ancient m16a2 I had.

>>35108558
>He directly responded to a post about a a d60 magazine which fires 5.56
>240's aren't that caliber

Not saying you're a double nigger without reading comprehension... But..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad5NjlE0BsQ

The Taliban found themselves able to SuRuPress US forces with AK's and Mosin bolt actions.
Accurate fire is accurate.........Accurate fire will into suppression

>>35108414
>enlist
>get to first unit, get stuck with 240
>immediately deploy
>deploy again
>now SPC at 2.5 years
>deploy again
>now SGT at 3.5 years, but no SL slots because we keep getting fucking deployed so everyone is constantly under stop-movement order
>my squad has a fucking SSG as SL and senior SGTs as TL's
>deploy again, reup mid-tour
>finally pick up SSG in primary zone almost exactly at 5 years, get SL slot and can ditch the 240
2004-2009 was a hell of a stretch

We weighed them on the official weigh-in balance beam scale in the company area, which we calibrated and used the official check-weight on each time. I won't GUARANTEE it was 100% accurate, but it's the best I could do short of breaking the law to go get it weighed on a postal scale that's independently certified.

>>35108406
No, each MG always weighed the same, just that none of them weighed exactly the same.

I would guess differences in machining or density of the plastics used in the furniture.

>>35108494
You can link belts while one is being fired.

M249s can be mounted to trucks or tripods.

M249 ammo comes linked. Drops right into boxes or bags. No time spent loading magazines.

>>35108580
>thread is about M27's
>post about D60's for M27's

One of us lacks reading comprehension, and it's the guy calling an M240 a SAW.

Why don't they make guns that use 9mm for suppression so you can have loads of rounds?

>>35108598
>No, each MG always weighed the same, just that none of them weighed exactly the same.
jesus I fucked that all up.
>each MG always weighed the same it had previously
>no 2 MG's weighed the same as each other
So MG 1 weighed like 18.8lb, MG 2 weighed like 19lb, MG 3 weighed like 18.6lb, etc.

>>35108617
Because standard NATO 124gr 9x19 weighs more per round than standard NATO 62gr 5.56x45.

>>35108613
Yeah, I had a slight lapse when typing that out. The point of the post was 3 drums vs 10 - 15 mags for a 600 round load out. As in SAW vs. m27 .

Same round, different load outs.

>>35108613
I never mentioned the 240 in my post. I was referring to the 249 with 200rnd belts. Which is a bit old school but I used it to form the basis of comparison for the d60s if you were gonna actually use them in an AR role

>>35108617
>weight of US, WAA-headstamped NATO 124gr 9x19: 194.3gr
>weight of US, LC-headstamped M855 5.56x45: 178.1gr
I literally just weighed them.

>>35108691
My dick
>69 ounces
Yeah I'm a horse, so what? Fight me faggot.

>>35108335
Why even bother then when M249/M240Bs already exist?
Unless the IAR just costs less to make, but the belt-fed conversion costs money and replaces almost everything, so that doubles the cost.
There's zero reason for the IAR to exist in my opinion.

>>35108613
But. . . The M240 is a SAW, you dingus.

>>35108617
Because 9mm has terrible range and doesn't make a loud enough sound to make you keep shitting yourself.
Supression exists to make you too scared to look. 9mm can handle the "I don't want to die" part when close enough, but sounding like an asthmatic weedeater isn't very intimidating.

>>35108471
just no. FA is not practical or feasible outside of the prone other than suppression. confirmed never served

>>35108766
the m240 isn't a saw you call of duty playing fuck

>>35108766
>The M240 is a SAW
[citation needed]

>people arguing about machine gun weights when they've never even held one
Alright, tell me how to hold an M240 to shoot it standing or crouching.

>>35108826
I stopped playing CoD after BO1, but hey I'm just a guy on the Internet who couldn't join the military because I fell off a cliff as a kid and lost half my hearing.

>>35108827
I have no citation, so i'm wrong, least I could admit it.
If it isn't a SAW, what is it then? An MMG?

>>35108868
If you know so little then why do you feel you can speak freely and authoritatively on the subject? You know nothing.

>>35108022
The IAR has a heavy barrel and is generally more reliable so it works for sustained fire. It also has better accuracy and reach.

>>35108885
I can speak freely because I have the right to free speech.
and calling someone a dingus isn't speaking authoritatively.
I know enough about guns and how they work, but why isn't the M240 a SAW? It can still be carried, so I made the assumption is was classed as such.
No need to get so buttmad my dude.

>>35108868
yeah an mmg, the 240 is a crew served weapon that's pretty much only ever used from the prone

the 249 is an individual weapon and forms the majority of a squad's firepower while also being useful for clearing rooms and shit because it's light enough to carry and use like a rifle/carbine

>>35108904
Please explain to me how you can shoot a 240 standing up or crouching. It's designed to only be fired from a bipod or tripod.
>inb4 manlet
I'm 6'2", I've fired a 249 one handed.

Friendly reminder that the marines are going to replace both their M4's and M249's with M27's, and have already ordered enough to do so.

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>>35107536
That's why you need 40 and 75 rounds.

>>35108938
>when you forget your tangent isnt a ladder sight

Minus much accuracy

>>35108847
>how to hold an M240
first do a year or so of general strength and endurance training
then, get shot at, piss your pants, and spray wildly to make them piss their pants while you're diving for prone behind the nearest molehill

>>35108938
Why are RPKs so. Fucking. Sexy.

>>35108910
Thanks, most people get pretty passive-aggressive if you say one little thing wrong. Makes a lot of sense though. Doesn't the M240 have box-mags in case it needs to be made mobile though? I've seen it in action by a lone dude on Funker's YouTube channel.

>>35108932
Standing, I'd presume feet spaced apart with one behind the other, knees slightly bent, having enough upper-body to hold the weapon, and torso slightly leaning forward to compensate for recoil unless you're firing from the hip. If firing from the hip you need to have the stock under your arm and held tight against your side. Firing in bursts would help with recoil control as well since it kicks a lot.

>>35108986
>>35108971
Where do you put your left hand?

>>35108932
I watched a go-pro video of soldiers in afganistan firing from the hip
he grabbed the M240 by the strap and kind of generally sprayed a little bit while finding cover to make everybody piss their pants
>>35108974
it's like an AK's older, sexier, brother
>>35109002
I'm looking for the video right now

>>35108766
>Why even bother then when M249/M240Bs already exist?

Because both weigh roughly 17 and 27.6 pounds respectively, as opposed to 7.5 lbs?

>>35109002
he grabs the fucking bipod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdj0lBklvM

>>35109002
Bottom of the barrel shroud, of if you have short rams, underneath where the carry handle is mounted. Preferably controlling the belt over your forearm.

>>35109006
How much does the IAR weigh after a belt-fed conversion?

>>35109002
There was a machine Gunner in my old company that was well known for clearing rooms with a 240. A stalky mother fucker.

As far as I know he used the bi pods as a pistol grip. This was shouldering it also, not hipfire like other anon is talking about.

>>35108986
nah man they're just too unwieldy, front-heavy and long.

Look up videos of people shoulder firing 240s and tell me if they're shooting with any kind of accuracy or that it'd be practical to clear rooms like that

240s are great but they're right where they belong, weapons squad

>>35108552
>implying it would be firing 100% of the the time

>>35109064
Not accurate firing, but it's made for suppression unless you're firing at hordes of floppies.
It's a heavy weapon, and wouldn't be ideal for patrols because you'll need an ammo-bitch, but it'll still fuck shit up and can be foot-mobile when SHTF.

>>35109033
Good question, the Ares Shrike weighs 7.5 lbs in of itself, with it being based on the M16 weighing roughly 7.18 lbs. The IAR weighs 7.9 lbs so maybe roughly 8.22 lbs? I dunno, I haven't done a conversion with the two.

>>35109089
I don't think you know what weapons squad is

>>35109042
was this man stitched together from the remains of several cows
>>35109089
>ammo-bitch
typically those are called "spotters" right?

>>35107574
There are multiple guns per squad you fucking dumb cocksucking faggot. There is usually one per fireteam. There are three fire teams per squad so there are three IARs in each squad.

>>35109109
actually they're usually literally called ammo bitches.
A gun team theoretically consists of a gunner, Assistant Gunner who is usually the gun team leader (AG), and an Ammo Bearer (AB), usually called an ammo bitch. In practice though ABs don't exist, they're a role new guns are thrown into temporarily while the platoon figures out what to do with them (this happened to me)

>>35109109
Nah, he was just stalky. Turbo manlet lyke Stallone in Rambo. Like other anon said it isn't practical for clearing rooms. He just did it because he could. That's why I said he was well known for doing it, because it really shouldn't be done. Plus he was the squad leader of machine gunners, and later platoon Sgt of weapons platoon. So it wasn't like he was a pfc or a Lance, he basically didn't have anyone to tell him "hey don't do that".

>>35109109
Typically. Or ammo-bearer, but ammo-bitch a nick-name my buddies and I use for one.

>>35109102
I'd think more around 10-12lbs. Needs a heavier barrel to handle the high volume of fire and the heat that comes with it, the upper has to be swapped out, not sure if the lower has to be swapped as well though.

>>35109105
Educate me. From what I know, it's a squad of automatic rifleman, AT, and ammo-bearers.

>>35109109
No, that's for snipers. There's another for machine gunners I think. I'd just call'em ammo jockeys.

>>35109162
weapons squad consists of gun teams, AT, and attached mortars but they don't function as a squad, they get broken up into individual teams that are interspersed with the other squads in the platoon in the marching order.

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>>35109162
Hey, I'm just basing the weigh off of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_Shrike_5.56

Of course 7.5 lbs probably means unloaded or at best with 30 round mags. Also, I thought the barrel on the M27 was sufficiently thicc for high volumes of fire, maybe not?

>>35108795
M249 can be shoulder fired in controlled bursts. You just need to practice and not be a wimp. Though using the bi pod or mounted will produce better results.

M16/m4 burst or fa is completely viable while standing.

>>35109215
Makes sense, so basically a team of team-operated weaponsmen and their assistants/ammo-bitches?

>>35109233
Yeah, would obviously weigh less without the ammo. And no, I believe a stock M27 has a barrel taht isn't so thicc since it has time to cool while you reload mag after mag since it had to use 30rnd/60rnd mags instead of belts. It definitely doesn't seem to me made to fire continuously.

>>35108349
So I'm guess that's a no.

>>35108351
Something like the D60s or this? Maybe the army should design their own. Please pardon any edgy music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-EdgVJUaxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqCI4GR4bbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqCI4GR4bbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqCI4GR4bbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyM47zUZKLw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y0w3M_F158

>>35109308
That's kind of disappointing for something that the muhreenz insists on dumping 3k a rifle for.

>>35109308
yep so on patrol, 1st squad might have SNOT, a gun team and the platoon sergeant, 2nd squad might have AT and a gun team plus the weapons squad leader, and 3rd squad mortars and a gun team.

So if the platoon takes contact from the front, 1st squad will be able to return fire with two SAWs and a 240. Team leaders will coordinate fire between the SAWs and other members of the team. Squad leaders will coordinate fire between the fireteams and the gun team and communicate with the other squads. A squad leader will sometimes carry a mag of tracers for this purpose. The platoon sergeant will decide how the platoon as a whole reacts, and the weapons squad leader (who is the second most senior NCO, usually) will help with this.

There are other members/attachments as well like medic, EOD, Canine, CST, RTO and PL but let's not get into that

>>35107536
>What is m249/lmg?

>>35107536
>what is slow fire?
>what is grazing fire?
>what is aimed fire at an enemy under cover?

>>35107574
>>35107536
>>35107554
My theory is that the marines wanted a light automatic rifle, kinda like the M4, but only got cleared for a SAW program.

>>35108372
>Do you have sources to back that up?
60 years of DI weapon service and everyone including Chesty Puller bitching about how a weapon that shits where it eats is a terrible fucking idea and the weapons sucked up until about 10 years ago? And most of them are STILL inferior to piston driven weapons.

>>35109958
You mean the ones getting replaced by M27?

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>>35108281
>The marine corp doesn't have money to upkeep shit

The few the proud
American's finest
Hooyah

t. Armybro who actually got logistics

>>35110014
You mean 60 years of still having parts of original M16a1 in service?
Fuck off your just a clueless DI hater still buying memes from the 1960s

>>35110069
PARTS being the operative word kid.

>>35108214
Its pretty simple, half are moving while others are suppressing, over reloads your buddies have you covered. LMG's (normally on the flanks) prevent any awkward moments of everyone reloading.
With 8 rifles there's no point going automatic, especially with the LMG's.
You can easily suppress an enemy and move at the same time unless they have ridiculous numbers on you. But if that's the case you're fucked anyhow.

>>35108596
I daresay if theyre able to get accurate fire off then clearly theyre not being suppressed

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>It's yet another episode of "Marines desperately attempt to aquire new and unique equipment in order to continue the illusion that they are a meaningful branch of the military"

>>35109369
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A41W7OBcRfQ

>>35110014
Oh look its a piston AR shill who still parrots the lies about DI.

>>35107536
shoot something near them that'll make noise like a car door, wall or trash can

>>35111593
And so countries the episodes of normie an his attempts to fit in

>>35107536
the whole thing is just because government profile barrels are retarded

>>35107536
>How can you suppress fire if you have to change magazines every thirty rounds?
Just another episode of "I've never been on a march and under attack" brought to you by /k/

I always thought the real point of the IAR was actually a bait and switch to replace a portion of their M16s without having to deal with the fuckery of an inter-branch weapons competition, or just following the Army's lead and adopting M4s more widely.

>>35110045
>"""""""""""replaced"""""""""""

>>35112494
That's because that's exactly what they're doing.

They actually have more M249's in service now than when they claimed they wanted to replace it, and have vastly expanded its role.

They're also buying mk46's and mk48's for Raiders and MARSOC because they're too special-snowflake for SPW's and 240L's.

>>35109983
That's actually not a bad theory anon.

>>35108332
The ammo is carried by multiple people.

>>35112549
They bought more M27's than M4 and M249 combined.

>>35108022
The answer to your question is the SOCOM profile m4 barrel.