So whats the deal with the 556 round? I know this has been argued

>>35095457

5.56 killing people is a myth. everyone shot and "killed" by the round is hiding in your basement.

>>35095457

Go look it up on youtube you massive retard.

I knew an ex marine that said he shot an enemy at around 200 yards and when they got to the body they founded that the round entered the guys shoulder and blew a hole in his boot on the way out.

>>35095457
You're a literal retard if you believe that any military would adopt a round meant to wound. That's from a magazine published decades ago, and Fudds are dumb, hence it still being passed around.

Think how fucking many people 5.56 has killed. Seriously, just think on it. Not just the US, but how many NATO countries have been killing with it for longer than you've been alive? And then think 'gee, wonder why the Russians dropped the 7.62x39 and instead tried to copy the 5.56 with the 5.45?'

It's a light round that moves incredibly fast and shoots very flat. Is it as powerful as a 308? No, of course not, but it doesn't have to be, humans are medium game animals and 5.56 is plenty of kill, while being light as fuck so you can carry far, far more of it.

>>35095582
Basically

556 was adopted when soldiers were expected to engage at relatively close range. The military is looking to go back to 762 in Afghanistan because of longer range engagements and advances in body armor. Most SHTF scenarios would not involve engaging armored targets at long range. So go with 556 unless you're primarily concerned about sniping cops and soldiers under some totalitarian regime.

>>35095902
Even then, normal 556 will go through soft body armour that cops wear like butter

>>35095457
there are better rounds for different things, but it's versatile. it shoots flat, it can subsonic or AP decently, it's much lighter per round than 762 (jogging 5 miles with all that extra ammo blows), and it's insanely readily available.
SHTF buy a variety of ammo. hollow points+fmjs will probably do. god forbid you run into unfriendly people with plate armor on, you'll probably die if you do (:

PS as far as people not dying shot placement is king. 22lr is a fantastic assassination weapon. if you can hit the head and they aren't wearing a helmet it's perfect.

>>35095457

Take it shooting in a junk yard. Shoot old refrigerators and stoves and couches.

That's what I did. I then decided wasn't good enough and got out of 556 altogether.

BUT maybe its fine for you. I was shooting 55 grain that day and a lot of rounds disentigrated passing through targets I felt it should have made it through. Maybe that does mean better wounds. Maybe 62 grain steel core is leaps and bounds better. Didn't have any to test.

But for me. 308s the way to go. Firing through a wall or a car door is something I want to do without worrying my bullets turned into fragments .

a round designed to be rapidly fired at close range is being used for engagements at hundreds of meters with single or 3 round action
there was nothing wrong whatsoever with 7.62 single action and machinegun fire. worst american military industrial fuck up in our history.

>>35095912
because cops usually wear pistol round body armor???
I mean, cops don't encounter rifles a lot, when suspects with rifles are reported, you get SWAT or up equipped cops with ceramic plate armor.

Why does everyone on /k/ act as though the only ammo available in .223/5.56 is M855/M193. Buy a modern barrier-blind load such as the FBI spec 5.56 or .223 64 gr speed gold dots. Not a single person in this thread has mentioned this possibility so far. Why do I keep coming on /k/? Why do I keep doing this to myself? This page should be part of the sticky:
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#mozTocId394444

>>35095582
the only decent point you have here is that a 5.56 is half as light as a 7.62. which doesn't matter for our military since 90% of it's infantry are mechanized. which leaves the real reason 5.56 is popular, it is cheaper than the poorly trained average NATO soldiers life is worth in case it came too war in the late 20th century

>>35095457
shot fucking placement, you idiot. A .50 BMG hitting a determined and trained fucker's pinky isn't going to do much vs. a 9mm hitting them in the pinky, don't you fucking think?
Shit, a single fucking punch to the chest at the right fucking time have killed people.
A .22lr has brought down a fucking grizzly bear.
Some fucker shot a few times in the gut isn't going to kill them immediately.

Are you 11? Holy fuck I am so triggered and mad.

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> 308

"Muh range"
>implying you even have the skill to engage targets at 300-1000 yards, Lol
"Muh barrier blind"
>Implying you will be able to see through walls like fucking terminator, more likely you just accidently kill some kid hiding in a random building while missing your range shots
"Muh stopping power"
>implying you are buying hunting loads that don't work well in barrier blind conditions, your bulk pack FMJ will mostly ice pick on a human and cause same damage as most energy is passed through and transferred into the backstop
"Muh armor penetration"
> most available loadings are not even close to powerful enough to pierce level IV, if you really feel that taking down level IV armor is important swaging m2 into a .300 win mag is your lightest working round, probably need to go .338 lapua for reliable results on angle shots and distance shots.

Don't think I'm just shitting on .308 though

>5.56
"Muh carry capacity"
>implying you fatasses can even walk 10 miles in gym shorts,
"Muh recoil"
>the difference between aimed slow fire semiautomatic shots is negligible, only in automatic firing is the recoil enough to effect performance and none of the tards here can afford an m16 lower, much less an ar 10 automatic lower anyway.
"Muh weight"
> most ar 15's weight 6-8 pounds, most new SR 10 weight 7.8-8.8. If than extra pound matters to you the your a weakling.

>>35096295
Lol 90% is mechanized...apparently 240s and .50s don't exist...try carrying the same amount of 7.62 and 5.56 any sizeable distance and get back to me.

>>35096292
>half the pics dont
>expects people to read some bullshit thats on a website from 1995

Also people dont use those special sauce rounds cause they're usually pretty expensive and most people that can afford to shoot $1200 worth of ammo in a weekend aren't gonna be on /k/.

>muh shot placement!
>I saw a T-Rex taken down by a .22lr!
>Just shoot them in da eye!
>Just train more!

So I expect all you deadly sniper mother fucker fuckers only own 22lr? Because you're all so good with your shot placement, anything else would just be a waste of money.

For everyone else who can't curve bullets we're going to look for the best round with the best to ballistics to get the job done.

5.56 stopping power was something I often questioned myself before I got an AR.
Based on what I have seen 5.56 is plenty enough to take down anything the size of a big white tail deer and under which is about where humans are at.
Ive shot quite a few Foxes, coyotes, rabbits and deer with my AR and I've only ever seen 5.56 fail on rabbits where it didn't have enough time to work it's magic.
For all of you /k/unts worry about stopping power.....just remember, it's still a hunk of metal passing through the body at a few thousand feet per second, sound like fun?

>>35096295
Nato soldiers are literally worth millions per unit. Training equipment, nourishment, logistics, transport.

>>35096295
Literally retarded, and the proof is in the first sentence you wrote, dumb-dumb.

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>>35095457

Like any caliber, it depends on the ammunition you use for the job. A 5.56X45 M193 out of a 16 inch barrel to any part of the body inside of 50 yards (where it's almost guaranteed to fragment) is going to do massive damage. The nicer hunting hollow points will also be devastating, people take deer with them in a single shot all of the time.

What would be bad to use are something like Tula 223 fmj or, unless you're shooting through vehicles, 5.56X45 M855 (it has a chance to fragment but it's a smaller fragment too).

Pic related is 5.56X45, close range, most likely M193.

>gets btfo
>>35096381
>>35096425
>>35096499
>samefags to save face
must suck being cramped up in that pyops trailer all day

>>35095457
It's good enough and you can carry a lot of it. That's literally it.

>designed to wound
Fuddlore

>>35096370
I know you are just fishing for (You)s , but what is okay to buy then friend

.300 Blackout?

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>>35096630

I also want to point out, the "ice pick" wounds everyone bitches about is normally when using M855 that failed to fragment. The slower they go, the less likely they will fragment after about 200 yards with even a 20" barrel it doesn't happen anymore.

Why is this acceptable? 5.56 was accepted so a soldier can carry more ammunition and have an easier controlled weapon. Most fire fights were, at the time, inside of 100 yards. If someone is within 100 yards of you, they have a good chance of hitting you unless you drop them immediately so damage at that distance is important. If they are further than 200 yards, they have a very slim chance of hitting you while gurgling blood from their "lol .22 wound" so let them bleed it out if you get more ammo; it's less important.

Pic is M193 fragmenting at different velocities

>>35095582
this

>>35096215

If the rounds disintegrated passing through things that means all the energy was dumped in that distance and not wasted by passing through. That's literally why militaries like using fragmenting rounds, it does more damage. Steel core gives some of the fragmenting up but not all of it.

If the round fragments out the other side of a door it's still probably going fast enough to be lethal. It depends on the thickness of course though.

>>35095457
556 is extremely effective, 9 times out of 10 someone calling to replace it is either shilling a rifle/cartridge or a fudd

>>35096295
>I have no idea what a soldiers load is

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>>35095570
>When the maximum range for overpenetration is just right.

>>35096666
>Why is this acceptable

Because 556 was designed using several countries combat experience in WW2/Korea on what soldiers needed to win firefights.

>>35095570
I knew an ex Seal Team Six operator who told me he shot a guy from 300 yards, clean headshot.
When they examined the body they found the round traveled downward and exited through the asshole. Shit everywhere.
Then we became range buddies and he let me fuck his daughter.
5.56 is a precision round.

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35096631(you)
>People tell you you're full of shit
>S-s-same fag! No way could I be wrong and people disagree with me.

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>>35095457
Most rounds coming from a rifle are far more deadly than pistol rounds fired out from pistols.

For example 9mm out of a pistol is about as deadly as .22magnum out of rifle. Even a lighter, slower round like .22hornet would still be very lethal to humans up to 200yards.

.223 was designed to easily kill up to 300-400yards

>>35096666
Nice quads

>>35096729
If only you had any reading comprehension experience from WW2/Korea.

>>35096664

If you want a serious answer I have the following and have done long hunts with all listed here were my results
>Be me
>own hunting land
>take the following guns on hunts of medium game
>AR10, Remington core lokt: the rifle itself is porky but I have a 15x variable that makes it even worse. Total loaded weight approx 11.5lb. In field standing shots suck, prone shot at 150 ice picks game even with hunting load. Must track blood trail and the quarry still needed a killshot even though I got vitals shot.

>AR15, .300 B/O 110 grain Barnes. Rifle medium weight. Standing shots easy. Take four game animals DRT. Wound heavily expanded nice blood pool.

>AR15 pencil build, poly lower and titanium BCG total rifle weight sub 5lb. Load 50 grain hollowpoint. Feels like a feather. Shoot game, looks healthier than before I shot it. Shoot again, it then licks wound and keeps eating. I threw rifle down and charge with knife. Get gored.

you be the judge

5.56 neets have no problems carrying around an extra 100lb of human body fat but ask them to carry an extra 4lb for a more effective weapon system and they all start crying out

MUH CARRY CAPACITY

>>35097217
Considering I've filled my freezer for the last 2 years with Michigan white tail dropped by an 18 inch barrel ar15 (antlerless season coming up again), I'm going to go with the VERY safe bet that you're either a noguns or a shit shot.

>>35097304

>LOW WEIGHT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE OF THE AR

it's impressive how many ARfags are in line with this

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>>35095489
You think I havent done this retardedly easy task?
Why the fuck do you think im here and asking now you fucking moron?

Hint - because youtube shows its weak as shit

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>>35096292
First off, every body acts like the FMJ crap is the only thing available because IT PRACTICALLY FUCKING IS. I go to the gun show every month looking for bulk soft point, but NEVER ONCE in a fucking decade has anyone had that.

Yes, sure, you can go to dicks or some shit and go out of your way to find it, but youre going to be paying almost double for this ammo, and still, almost anywhere you go its going to be 99% FMJ shit. Fucking hate that m193 garbage.

Whereas kt seems like every other ammo type I see SHITLOADS of ammo variety. 556 seems to be the LEAST varied of all cartridges.

>>35096655

shoots super flat, so within the effective range of say, 450m it rises like 4 inches above axis and drops 4 inches blow axis so you don't have to bother adjusting elevation to hit what you're aiming at. That's a pretty significant benefit.

Also the more rounds you can put downrange the better, since your enemy is hiding and you can't actually see him, just guess where he is, most of the time. 1 shot 1 kill is a myth for people who have never been outside long enough to play hide and go seek.

>>35097505

In all earnest I don't hunt with my 5.56, what load are you using for it I might try it this season

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>>35096215
762 for extreme pentration
556 for accuracy and possible fragmentation.

When thenround doesnt go through, that means it dumped all of its energy upon hitting the target.

Considering 556 is traveling A SHITLOAD faster than most 762 will, you are dumpong considerably more energy into your target. This is what makes a 556 particularly lethal, especially if the bullet "explodes" or fragments inside your organ cavity.

>>35096932
Speaking of reading comprehension, that was supplemental information.

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>>35096666
This image has been passed around for A WHILE.
im aware of the chart, but what concers me is that SOMETIMES, this round will fail to fragment alltogether.

Everybody who has an ar is always relying on their round to fragment. THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.
the round sometimes does not always reliably fragment, which is the 556 most damaging aspect.

How often does this round not do what its supposed to do?
I would bet money much more than you think it would. This is what scares me.

>>35097677
If your round has enough velocity it WILL fragment, period.

When using an SBR, which will supply inherently less velocity, projectiles with very low frag speeds and high weights must be used. 77 grain OTM is incredibly effective, and can be used in any 5.56

>>35097585
Softpoint/hollowpoint 556 is easy to obtain, stop going to places that sell only bulk plinker ammo.

If 556 was designed to wound, explain why all those kids at Sandy Hook died?

Checkmate atheists

>>35097677
You are talking about ball ammo that needs to tumble to fragment.

>>35097677
>What is yawing
>What is dumping shit loads more energy than a handgun round
>What is heavy gr OTM ammo
>What is barrier blind loads
>What is M855A1
>What is every operator faggot on the planet knowing more about the round than you and almost exclusively relying on it.

>>35097850
>What is the military switching to .300 b/o for sbr
>what is 5.56 does not fragment sub 2400fps

>>35097850
Stop asking what that stuff is and google it.

>>35097786
False flag terror bruh

>>35097625
64gr power point is solid, and only had 1 make it to the tree line (that's a big thing, if there is any brush between you, don't shoot. 556 is a great medium game round, but terrible if anything is in the way, still pros outweigh cons).

Tried 60gr Nosler partition last year and was happy.

>>35097217
So much bullshit

>>35097911
Neither of these are true.

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>>35097850

> barrier blind 5.56

>>35097947
The first two are 100% accurate, the last is false I don't hunt with 5.56 I'm not an inhumane piece of shit>>35097971

>>35097985
Cool story brah.

>>35097548
He has never hiked around with 22lbs of armour/mags on his chest, 40lbs of backpack and 5lbs of battle belt. it adds up. The old dumb saying "hurrr just lift more" is stupid.

>>35098098

No but prioritizing weight is, I mean if weight and carry capacity was the only concern and all bullets were equal the .22lr would be king

>>35098118
Which is why every soldier needs a .338 GPMG.

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>>35098176
I DON'T EVEN GO THE THE BATHROOM WITHOUT IT THIS LOADED WITH APIT

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ITT: literal retards who haven't heard of
>modern fragmenting loads
>fleet yaw issues for military ball rounds
>barrier blind loads
>the fact that all bullets fail to perform sometimes

>>35095457
The thing about those people getting shot 5,6, even 7 times is in my experience, US Army Combat Medic, they were all on some sort of drug. Whether that be a shot of adrenaline or straight up heroine in their system. That was about the only times I've seen people take that many rounds of 5.56, all of these men were past 200 meters. Anything closer the 5.56 round tore through those fucks like no ones business. I felt safe carrying my M4 and M9 in Iraq because of what I've seen first hand.

>soldier loads are ~120 pounds
>what's another 5 pounds of ammo for no functional benefit

"basically no difference in terminal preformance" lol

>5.56 GEL TEST
https://youtu.be/Bs6voS3gk2Q?t=106
>.308 GEL TEST
https://youtu.be/qAkSs1GZErI?t=132

Lets get real here, the main reason why our armed services use 5.56 is because they don't really need their rifles for killing shit. our ground troops now are basically bait to be ambushed, and when they start getting their asses kicked because they are out gunned, out maneuvered fat bodies all they need is to get on the radio and call in air support, of which the U.S has total supremacy. the VAST majority of enemy causalities are caused by precision guided air to ground munitions from manned and unmanned aircraft.

but please tell me how an m4 in 5.56 with a 14.5 inch barrel is totally going to take out that PKM firing 7.62x54R when it starts the ambush at 1500-1800 meters.

>>35098483

the 5.56 at 1800 meters has approx 40 ft/lb(about 1/6 of a .22lr) of energy and 4248 inches(354 FEET) of drop lol

.308 still rocking strong at 300 foot/lb at that range

the

5.56 seems scarily effective for the weight and size of it

heard about it 'ice picking' and going straight through without causing some of the massive wounds it usually does, I still think those end up likely being mortal wounds even if it doesn't stop them outright.

>>35098483
15-1800m, even if you got a competition shooter and set that gun up on a tripod I doubt anyone is going to hit much of anything at that distance let alone with a rifle that would have that much recoil. Even if you had it sighted in perfectly, and had a really good understanding of the bullets trajectory about how it's going to arc and drop if someone is shooting at you at that range you might as well break out an MRE and have a snack because your more likely to run into the bullet moving around than sitting still.

the Five Five Sacks fags are circling the wagons boys they've already touched on Muh carry capacity, muh barrier blind and muh "basically the same" terminal performance

don't forget to engage them at 1000m with your FAL, you can just stand out in the open and if a 556 hits you at that distance it will just bounce of your t-shirt like a BB pellet

>>35098483
>ambush at 1.5k/1.8k
IDK, If you get pinned down by a sniper with a 762, yeah you better flank it or set up camp.
But if jihady jhon is shooting you with a PaK, youll be fine.

>>35098483
>overmatch fallacy

A PKM isn't pinning you down at 1500m+.

>>35095457
What handguard is that?

>>35098590
>heard about it 'ice picking' and going straight through without causing some of the massive wounds it usually does, I still think those end up likely being mortal wounds even if it doesn't stop them outright.

Yeah, a stab wound of any diameter right through you is really fucking dangerous. Penetration depth is by far the most important metric of terminal ballistics. You don't hunt large, dangerous game that will rip you to btis if it doesn't die fats enough with birdshot, glazer, or even HP, you use solid brass slugs. But a long, thin line through the gel doesn't look as impressive in photographs, so there you have it. And sure, a lot of times the enemy won't just drop when shot. Just like .30 carbine was stopped by heavy winter clothing in Korea. Turns out that soldiers aren't big on accepting that they missed.

>>35098729
308 fags denying 300 winmag supremacy. Pick up a man's weapon.

>>35098929
.300 win mag fags denying the supremacy of .338 win mag lol

>>35095457
>using dickmod
of course its a shite gun

>>35098483
Can a 5.56 apologist please watch these and help me understand how they are both "basically the same >>35098483

I want to believe again

>>35097654
wtf is that thing? it looks like a carryhandle got buttfucked by a rail

>>35097914
Gee, you think I didnt do that already?
Fuckin faggot how retarded are you?

>>35096389
>buy a bunch of special snowflake ammo
>shoot enough to confirm it works well in your gun and matches up with your practice ammo
>save that ammo for home defense/shtf and shoot cheap practice ammo at the range
>>35097585
you do realise you can order ammo online correct?
>youre going to be paying almost double for this ammo
see the top half of this post

>>35098846
It's dickmod. Why would you want it?

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>>35098295
Finally, a medic who actually talks.

How would you compir wounds of 556 to 7.62x39? (If you have seen both)
Also curious on your take of a 308 wound

>>35095457
Both are true, It passes through malnourished goat herders, it could also pack more punch for armor like a 6.5mm+

These aren't fresh opinions and this doesn't need to be talked about again.

There IS NOT and NEVER will be an end all round, we have been having an arms race since the dawn of humans civilization...

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>>35099280
No one will reply to you because you make too much sense. PSA sells 64 gr gold dots for $10/20 (50 cpr). Buy three boxes and you'll have two mags of barrier-blind .223 that's been extensively tested and has very good terminal performance. I don't know why people act as though this shit is unobtanium when you can spend 15 minutes online looking up 5.56/.223 loads that meet the 12-18" requirement through a variety of barriers with consistent expansion and just order one of them that's in stock somewhere. You don't need to buy 1,000 rounds of it for your HD gun.

But I'm sure this post will be ignored and everyone will keep talking about "energy dump."

>>35099152
Start with gel tests of non gimmick ammo.

>>35099356
>64 gr gold dots
How do those compare to the 64 grain offering from Nosler? Have any tests been done?

>>35099369
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#mozTocId394444

This is the link I posted above that people didn't read and were bitching that it was old info. Yes, it's old, and no, I can't find an updated version. This info is still good info though and is from a reputable source. This is the nosler 60 gr:
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/223%20Barrier%20Rounds.htm

>>35099282
What's wrong with keymod? Sure, its not as universal as picatinny, but its better than the proprietary crap like M-lok and whatever H&K forces upon us.

>>35099369
>>35099396
And the 64 gr nosler:
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/MOLON/Nosler%20Defense%20223%2064gr%20BSB.html

>>35099398
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/03/31/ussocom-selects-m-lok-for-weapon-programs/

>>35099398
MLOK was chosen by Socom (in unironically skewed testing to favor MLOK) and has largely won the marketing battle due to Magpul's reach.

People arguing about this retarded shit is why I haven't come to /k/ in a month. MUH F35 .45AARP 5.56 WOONDING ARG AKG AK BREADS DAILY

Fucking shit board

.22
.223

Hickok 45 had a video showing subsonic .223 having less impact than a .22 lr

The main attribute of .223 is that it is light and it is fast

The round gets down range in a hurry and has plenty of powder behind it

>>35095457

>I know this has been argued over hundreds of times before, but I'm bored so lets all start the same tired old argument again shall we?

But

>>35099357

556Speed gold dot
https://youtu.be/KYZ7sYAD_sM

.308
https://youtu.be/qAkSs1GZErI?t=132

Yeah 5.56 still looks super weak, but that .308 looks so nasty it could DRT from a gutshot

>>35099488
That Gold Dot video is a DRT wound from a gutshot.

>>35095457
Considering the only way to even try to stop bleeding from even a .17 HMR gunshot wound is using a tourniquet, .223 is probably good enough to kill people, yeah.

>>35099398
I'm just memeing. Dickmod is lighter but looks like crap. Keymod looks better and is apparently stronger.

62 grain XM855 Lake Fucking City .223 Green Tip Steel Core Penetrator

The gold fucking standard of AR ammunition

Take your Slav shit le trash can man wolf turd elsewhere peasant

ITT

Poorfags and mil spec fags desperately try to justify the varmint round despite overwhelming evidence it's inferior

>>35099577
>overwhelming evidence
>nothing actually mentioned

>>35099488
>looks super weak
>penetrated 18.5" with an expanded diameter more than double its original size

Wut

>implying m193 doesnt blow m2 ball ammo out of the water
If we're playing the historic milspec ammo only game then 5.56 winds handily. The only thing 7.62 does better is retain energy at extreme range(typically a non factor) and offer superior intermediate barrier performance.

5.56 has superior close to medium range wounding while weighing less, allowing for greater capacity, and recoiling less

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to the people in here that think .308 is completely superior in every aspect, why not just step it up to .338 instead of tiny .308?
>weight doesnt matter so thats not an issue
>vastly more muzzle energy
>higher ballistic coefficient
>better terminal effects
>can defeat more forms of armor

>>35099769

Main reason why is simple, .308 is streaching the limits of what a human can handle and what an automatic action can reliably handle, sure there are .338 lap AR style weapons but most of them are huge and require long barrels to really get the advantage of all that extra powder. The .308 is the most powerful thing a man can handle, it's the 15lb sledge hammer of the gun world.

Sure you can tell me that with your 1lb hand hammer you can bust the door down, but when I take my sledge and blast open the door in a single swing while you are tapping on the handle with your puny mini hammer don't make me laugh by saying "it's basically the same Thing" or "yeah but I'm less tired because you've been carrying that big hammer all day just for that one cool moment"
accept the fact your a weakfag hang your head in shame and accept my dominance

>>35099911
Except in this scenario you are hammering nails.

5.56 is for men who are confident in their dick size, .308 is for those who aren't. It's really that simple.

>>35099911
>it's the 15lb sledge hammer
you know that bigger sledges exist, and so do battering rams and shit, and people use those easily? what youve told us here is that youre a limp wristed panty waist regardless of your (admittedly correct) views on rounds' calibers and gun actions

>>35099911
>Main reason why is simple, .308 is streaching the limits of what a human can handle and what an automatic action can reliably handle, sure there are .338 lap AR style weapons but most of them are huge and require long barrels to really get the advantage of all that extra powder. The .308 is the most powerful thing a man can handle, it's the 15lb sledge hammer of the gun world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXEK7rcqO-Y
just admit you're a dyel/bad shooter. The old man in this video is shooting .50bmg too not .338. Maybe if you werent such a skeleton you could lift a .338 ar
>BUT MUH RECOIL
get a heavier gun
>MUH WEIGHT
weight doesnt matter

>>35099911
>.308 is streaching the limits of what a human can handle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nOkO8Sh2xs
another old dude but this time hes firing a 76mm mortar from the shoulder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBntnnCFvOk
skip to 22 seconds on this one

>>35100007
Dammit man, you are making me really want a .338 semi

>>35099911
>Im a thinly wristed fagot
Thats what the post reads.

Fuck it, room clearing with a m107 .50

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>>35095457
WHY DO PEOPLE NOT KNOW ABOUT 30AR

ITS LITERALLY JUST A WIDER 223 THAT HAS THE SAME BALLISTICS AS 308!!!

ITS THE FUCKING FUTURE DICKHEADS

>>35096370
>.300 win mag is your lightest
not 300 winchester short magnum..

Its like you guys dont know that wider rounds have more efficient powder burns..

5.56 is more powerful than .44 magnum and obviously far longer range

I think .44 magnum is enough to kill a human, considering it's nearly twice as powerful as 10mm auto.

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>>35099398
Fuck you, and fuck your keymod.

Ugliest garbage ever, that cant be universally used by most accessories. Why these retards had to go off and design their own special snowflake rail system that looks like a barren kohls shelf is beyond me. You have to be fuckin retarded to use that

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>>35099478
This time around, I actually got some legitimate info, unlike every other thread that just turned to shit flinging. And AGAIN IF YOU CANT FUCKING READ

>I want fresh opinions

Faggot.

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>>35100700
30AR IS THE BEST ROUND

POWER OF 308

WEIGHT OF 223

>>35100681
shut up dumb faggot, there is literally nothing wrong with Keymod and it's inherently stronger

If you shoot a dude in a vital spot he's going to die

I don't understand the purpose in arguing the minutia of ballistics for civilians

It's very unlikely you are going to be encountering someone at range

It's very unlikely you're going to encounter someone in armor

You have 30 rounds on tap, whether it's 5.56 or 7.62 won't make any difference.

>>35100592
>10 round magazinea
>5moa

No thanks. I'll stick to .30-06.

>>35100592
>30RAR
Supersonic 300blk is better suited for the AR platform.
Less recoil
No loss in magazine capacity.

If you want a DMR AR then 6.5 and 6mm is better than 30RAR.

30RAR is made for people who absolutely wants an AR15 but also have to comply with special hunting regulations.

>>35096295
gas yourself kike

>>35100822
BULLSHIT MOTHER FUCKER

30AR MIGHT NOT BE OPTIMAL IF YOU RUN A STOCK AR BUT WITH A FEW MODS IT COULD LITERALLY BE THE BEST ROUND EVER

NEW MAGAZINE DESIGN AND NECK THE CARTRIDGE DOWN TO 6.5 AND IT WOULD OBJECTIVELY BE THE BEST ROUND EVER DESIGNED

>>35100822
ALSO IF YOU WANTED A 223 REPLACEMENT THEN TAKE THE DIMENSIONS OF 30AR AND SHRINK THEM

223 WASTES CARTRIDGE LENGTH BECAUSE POWDER BURNS IN A SPHERICAL MANNER SO WIDER CARTRIDGES ARE MORE EFFECIENT

A PDW ROUND WOULD BE THE SAME WIDTH AS 30AR BUT SHORTER AND THEN IT WOULD BE EVEN FUCKING LIGHTER THAN 223.

ALSO POLYMER AND ALUMINUM SHELLS NEED TO BE A THING AND IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR GRANDADS PLAStIC BUT SOMETHING LIKE TEFLON WITH GOOD THERMAL PROPERTIES

THE AR IS MATURE TECHNOLOGY BUT WE CANT STILL SHAVE OFF A FEW MORE OUNCES ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO AMMO

>>35100799
This. A pistol caliber carbine or pistol with a brace loaded with gold dots or HSTs would actually be pretty ideal for 99% of people who just want a good HD gun; they have less recoil and muzzle blast than rifles, are much more maneuverable indoors in pistol/brace format, and are cheaper to practice with. The likelihood of someone coming into your house wearing armor is extremely slim. The military has switched to SBRs because they defeat soft armor and because the military has to infil/exfil and might have to engage targets out to a few hundred meters. For something that will be used exclusively indoors, a pistol caliber carbine is pretty ideal.

>>35100852
>>35100888
EVEN WITH CRUISE CONTROL YOU HAVE TO STEER, ANON.

>>35100900
>implying
I'm still right. Ammunition should be wider and there is no excuse for carrying around excess powder and brass.

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>>35100898

>>35096666
>>35096370
>>35098483
5.56/M16 were adopted because it proved to be better in every fire power aspect under 300 yards than 7.62/M14.
1. Hit probability of single shot.
2. Aimed fire rate.
3. Damage to soft target.
5.56 hit more, hit faster, hit harder than 7.62. Period.
Hit probability was tested through multiply field experiments where groups of soldiers engaged tactically relevant target setups on firing ranges.

>but 7.62 does more damage
Yes and no. Testing was done via shooting soap blocks. Tumbling 5.56 did more damage to them than later pr non tumbling 7.62 . You ma argue that this apples vs oranges and kinetic energy transfer doesn't counts because reasons and proper 7.62, like hollow point beats 5.56 of same construction. But:
1. This was the state of terminal ballistics knowledge of that time.
2. US army used M80 and 5.56 prototypes were better.

>>35100980
Those tests were done without optics

>>35099911
Found the weakling faggot with no chin

>>35095912
...at 50 yards

how about 600yds?

>>35099911
Great troll, tons of butt rape generated.

>>35102177
That's the whole deal, 556 is done at 600 yards,

>>35102181

10$ that guy don't even own a .308 lol

>>35100970

The absolute state of 5.56 faggotry, first .308 is overpowered and now 5.56 is over powered, if you dare question it they suggest you go buy a flak 88 or home defense while they start neckingbearding .22lr for the apocalypse.

If we let them run things they would be issuing ruger 10/22 for standard issue infantry.

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>>35098272
feels good, man

I've said it before I'll say it a thousand times

>Muh carry capacity
>Muh recoil
>Muh barrier blind
>Muh same terminal performance

What apologist won't tell you is the real reason for their loyalty is they bought an AR 15 all ready but are to cheap to retool, they then must justify their purchase. Or they are .mil spec fags who just gotta be positive about their fucking varmint load

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For some, an AR-15 is all the money they can justify spending, it's "good enough". It's not to heavy, it's easy and comfortable, not to inconvenient. If your weapon system is an afterthought that's fine, if you want a weapon for killing then you know what to do.

Which is why CAG/SAS/DEVGRU who have SCARs in their inventory carry them on every single mission. Oh wait...

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>be me
>smaller framed guy who's only sport is rec shooting
>Switch from 5.56 to .308 AR10
>scary physical transformation
>should have stayed 5.56, look at my gross arms now

>>35102286
With most rifle calibers, even getting shot in the leg can be fatal do to massive hemorrhaging and often causes shock.

9mm and 22LR is a completely different animal. With pistol calibers, you have hit the brain, central nervous system or the heart to stop someone in their tracks.

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I've seen you 308 faggots at meet ups. Each one a Manlet who can't shoot. You're either skinny fat, or too fat to CC, no exceptions.

>>35103662
Well damn, if the guys with .308 at your LARP meet ups are not sexy enough for you to want to fuck then damn I guess we all must convert to 5.56 fags so we too can sex the hot guys.

>>35102332
Speaking of justifying purchases, we are discussing military use of 556 vs 762 and not your bench rifle.

>>35098483
Holy fuck are you not in the Military or use firearms daily in your employment.

>Ambush with MG at over a 1KM with Irons
OK so Jihad Joe looking thru PKM, RPD weapons sights on rusted and rickety as fuck bipods if they even have one at camo targets thru desert mirage while jacked on their local daily drug of the day.

Either one of two things happen
1.You are Kennedy and take that magic bullet.
2.That wild burst misses you all find cover get sand in your short shorts or if you went commando comanche all over your dick balls and ass. Then if you had a team doing over watch with long rifles they engage if possible or call in arty or air support(even a fly by scares them shitless) all else fails you pop smoke disengage and retreat.

>>35105517
force on force at range without air support, 7.62 company kicks 5.56 companies ass.

yeah if your just bait just walk around through the gunfire and hide out and wait for the airstrike.

if you are a civilian prepping for the apocalypse get .308 because there is no airstrike coming to bail you out.

if you are the U.S mil just give the grunts BB guns so that they can carry more batteries to keep the radios juiced so where they start getting their asses kicked again the airstrike can still get called in

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>>35103662

i'm 6ft, fit, and i shoot my FAL every weekend

come get some bby

>>35106840
>force on force at range
There is no such mission.

>>35106920

there is in SHTF or foreign invasion

>>35106860
Post pics and I'll judge if your boipucci is worthy, manlet.

>>35106944
There is assault.
There is defense
Shooting at range is not a military mission.

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Old news, but still relevant:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/04/11/gign-adopts-cz-806-bren-2-7-62x39/

>The decision to adopt the Bren 2 was the result of a process that began in 2015 after the Paris attacks in January that year. Faced with terrorists equipped with bullet-proof vests, French gendarmerie and police intervention units found that 9 mm weapons had little efficiency in such situations and that 5.56 mm ammo lacked the necessary stopping power.

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>>35100681
>Look like a barren khols shelf

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>>35100760
The way people spaz about this makes me feel like we're getting set up for the .40 S&W of the rifle world.

>>35107007
well its a good thing our military only will ever fight in third world shit holes they've invaded with total air superiority,

however if you are a civilian selecting a weapon for SHTF counting on airstrikes for anything outside of 800m might be a bad idea depending on where you live. particularly the Midwest.

>>35107069
7.62x39 has less 'stopping power' than SCHV rounds like 556 and 545, there is a reason the Russian army has phased it out of front line service.

>>35107814
>selecting only one weapon for SHTF

>>35107814
You know what, fine you do you.
You are beyond being a retard, get the bigger and heviest shit you can lug around cus "muh stopin powah".
Dont just think about ranges of 800m, what about 3k's? or maybe 5k's? what if you have to take out an enemy 120mm mortar at 6k's?
GEEEEEE better get a bigger bullet there son.

>>35107814
LARP'ing on idea that you will be an elite sniper in a SHTF scenario is a great way to fuck yourself. And there are better options than .308 if you are actually serious about setting yourself up that way.

>>35107881
Out of 8'' barrel with bullets of simsalr conuatrion 7.62x39 >556.

>there is a reason the Russian army has phased it out of front line service.
Because 7.62x39 can't into automatic fire but concept that main mode of fire is burst is incomprehensible for teh West so they can't udnstad Russains.

>>35107890
Well 120mm mortar is bigger bullet so...

>>35107905
I am sure 7.62x39 performs better out of an 8" barrel than something like M855 which was designed for 20" barrels, but compared to modern heavy hollow points not so much.

>Because 7.62x39 can't into automatic fire

Idiot.

All these fuckers arguing about 5.56 and .308, ignoring the fact that, soon, 6.5CM is going to be the king of fighting rifle calibers.

Face it, boys. If civilians are managing to reliably hit 6 inch groups at 1000 meters, the round they're using is worth looking into. All that cartridge needs now are projectiles that do what needs to be done downrange, and that's poke big fuckin holes in human bodies. Larger caliber weapons? Fuck em. We'll just make longer, heavier 6.5mm and wider casings. No, not longer. Wider. Even .50bmg will someday be replaced by a 6.5mm variant, likely projectiles resembling pencils and casings that resemble old-fashioned gas cans. The future is now, old man.

>>35107905
Lay down the beer for a minute there chief.

>>35108097
And you, lay down the crack for a minute there chief.

>>35108097
Creedmore is not a 'fighting rifle' cartridge, but it's an excellent DMR cartridge.

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>>35108097
>Military procurement obtaining the best possible caliber for service members

Sure buddy.

idea.
>fuck basic bitch gunpowder
>invent new powder that makes a gnarly fuckin pressure
>like 150'000psi
>use all steel core rounds
>have a beefed up super 5.56 with 180 grain longboi projectiles going the same or higher speed but with retarded higher energy

seriously, if the issue is velocity×weight, which it is, make better propellant. we made nukes and plastic explosives. we can make shit that could push 9mm to 2300fps or .30-06 to 4500fps. tanks are already shooting 5700fps, for fuck's sake.

>>35108128
>>35108148
>honest responses
>to that

>>35096631
No seriously, just the money required to keep people in Iraqi was thousands of dollars per man per week. Compared to that, an effective weapon is nothing.

>>35102177
Arguably a non-issue because of how AK-47s were basically useless at 600yards.

sage thread

>>35108096
Pro tip: just having fun switch doesn't make gun effective with automatic fire.

>>35108544
Pro tip: 7.62x39 isn't x51 or x54r.

>>35108576
This is the problem with West they don't comprehend how automatic fire works.
>what is AK-47 automatic fire dispersion?
>how much is needed?
These questions puts Westerner into stupor.

>>35107890
>>35107894

not a LARP-ing sniper, but if you only have ONE weapon, you want one that actually preforms well against barriers and preforms well at 300-800 yards, 5.56 starts really sucking at 300 and becomes super weak at 500+, by 800m its totally worthless. the .308 gives you options. Sure, its heavier but in a semi automatic package its effective at all ranges(from CQB-1000yards) and since you are a civilian with no fire support its your only recourse to hostile actions.

if you are trying to save a few pounds, your only weapon system might not be the best place to do that.

as for a larger caliber, if there is a larger caliber that feeds from a 25 round mag and weights less than 10lb in a semiautomatic system i would consider it, but right now .308 is cost effective, still fairly light and very effective at most realistic ranges with plenty of options for weapons. PSA sells a .308 AR for around $500.

to those who say they will never encounter a situation in SHTF where they must engage targets at 500-800+ all i can say if your only weapon is a 16 inch AR you better hope so.

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>>35108695
Barrett M107A1 CQ

its got close quarters right in the name

>>35108678
You are half correct, AK's are not capable of accurate full auto fire.

>>35108695
You are not performing well against barriers at 800 yards with .308

>>35108695
Something you are conveniently forgetting is that your average gun owner does not have the skills to take advantage of a rifle that shoots to 800 or 1000 yards anyway. Most outdoor ranges only go out to 100-200 yards, and shooting accurately and consistently at extreme distances like 800 yards requires that you have consistent practice, a data book for your rifle + ammo, and a quality high magnification optic (good ones probably cost more than your typical /k/ommando's entire arsenal). The only kinds of people who MIGHT actually be able to fulfill all of these preconditions are avid hunters from the midwest/states with BLM land--you know, the "fudds" that /k/ always shits on?

>>35108811
>you know, the "fudds" that /k/ always shits on?

Don't use words if you don't know what they mean.

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>>35108811

don't get me started on fudds.

>>35096723
underated post

i lol'd

>>35108695
You know what tard?
Yeah sure get the remy XM2010 and make sure to ONLY USE "MK 248 MOD 1 .300 Winchester Magnum".
Go larp and make a new world record of longest larper killed.

>>35109451
DON'T GET BUTT HURT JUST BECAUSE NOBODY YOUR UNIT EVER EVEN KILLED ANYONE WITH THEIR M4 PELLET RIFLES

>>35096215
>Take it shooting in a junk yard. Shoot old refrigerators and stoves and couches.

https://youtu.be/j0RYfmLiOQ4

>Ted Gundy
>top shot in his company
>tons of hands on combat xp
>old dude can ring the target at 300 yards with a 1903 a4
wich btw none of you larpers probably would
>gets XM2010
>range finder
>wind measurement
>extensive performance recording on that particular rifle
>and the spotter of 2 times international sniper champion on his side
>first shot almost misses the target
Thats a 1000 yard / 914 meters shot.

Now tell me larpers
>>35109748
>>35108811
>>35108695
>>35108097
How the fuck, how in the fuck are you better than this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVdqxkHd2RQ

>>35109917
I mean he did things you larpers can only dream of.
He was in:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Remagen
>Cologne plains, crossed the rhine river
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ruhr
And then got wounded
And yet here we are with larpers saying.
HUUURRRRRRR i need powerful bullet to engage enemies at 1k and more.

>>35099398
MLOK is stronger, lighter, and makes for more repeatable attachment.

It also isn't really proprietary, the only licensing requirement is that you put the MLOK logo on your part in a visible location.

5.56x45 relies almost entirely on velocity for sounding effectiveness. M193 out of a 20"+ barrel will not only produce one shot, center mass kills out to 300 yards, it will defeat all levels of steel plate based body armor up to ~150 yards IIRC. Unfortunately, the DoD is staffed by nepotistic retards and they decided short (14.5-18") barrels would be a great way to "improve" their rifle platform. This obviously neutered velocity (sub-3,000 fps means the bullet won't work as intended) and led to the "5.56 is worthless" meme being picked up by a whole new generation of soldiers. To make matters worse, the DoD was forced to develop the M855 round because no existing lead and copper round could meet their bare minimum penetration requirements at normal ranges (300m) so they had to add a steel penetrator. Now people think "green tip" M855 is an AP round while it can't actually penetrate steel plate armor that the "light and weak" M193 could.

"High speed, low drag" thinking is what ruined the AR platform.

>>35110471
dunning kruger

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>>35110471


>>35110471

>>35102328
This might be my new favorite reaction image

Lol 5.56

>>35110471
>2017
>doesn't know about M855A1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4ODh1g4eM

>>35110471
Ugh, soldiers have been bitching about the effectiveness of 5.56 since Vietnam. Interesting that the Rangers in Black Hawk Down were complaining about 5.56 when they were using 20" m16s.

Also, many of the bullets we have today have been optimized for SBRs like The black hills 70 gr tsx. It's not like bullet technology has stayed the same for over 50 years.