Debating between a beretta 92 and 96 Convince me not to go .40

price compared to what you're really getting.
it's literally a meme caliber, you spend more but really is it worth it.

>>35055581
If you're even considering .40, you're beyond salvation.

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>not going with 10mm

>>35055581
It isn't bad. But significant increase in recoil isn't worth added "stopin powah". It (or to be more precise FBI 10mm load) was adopted because it was it was middle ground between 9 fags and .45 fags.

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Only real reason to go for the 96 is if you want to make a lore accurate recreation of Barry Burton's Samurai Edge.

>>35055601
>>35055628
>>35055637

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0

>minute 12

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>>35055653
>scroll over the [Embed] bullshit
>see that fag's mug
nope.jpeg

>>35055581
It's not bad per se. It's just not particularly impressive for the added cost and reduced capacity. You're also decreasing shootability and beating up your gun more.

The 96 is also a particularly poor adaptation to .40, when I shot one it felt particularly flippy and the magazine capacity is 11. Usually it goes from 15 to 13. Beretta half assed it because they knew they were getting some contracts no matter how shoddy the adaptation was.

Anyway if you really want a .40 buy a used trade in USP. Bunch of em being blown out cheap right now. It's originally designed for .40 and a much better gun overall. If you buy a new .40 anything, especially a 96 you're just stupid beyond help.

>>35055686
just fucking watch for one minute starting at 12:20, he's not even in the frame. it's convinced me to go .40

>>35055692
sorry im not into plastic. also the 96 is 13+1

>>35055692
>trade in .40
why do you try to kill OP?

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>>35055686
nah dag.

>>35055696
that man owns a .40 glock.
hope he's okay :^)

>>35055637
.45 is better

>>35055581
>get 96
>get 9mm conversion
Now you have both

You guys are finooks
How are you going to solve problems without a 40?

>>35055581
.40 S&W is a way overrated round. 9mm has more capacity and a better selection to choose for JHP options. If you're gonna go the 40 route, might as well go 10mm like a man instead of Short & Weak shit.

Also, if you just want a large round, get a .45 ACP, it's cheaper and at least you won't look like a faggot.

>>35055704
P229 then. Way better gun.
https://www.recoilgunworks.com/sauer-p229r-good-condition-p-37946.html

450 bucks and they got mags for $20 each.

>>35055754
Well desu senpai .45 isn't any cheaper than .40, It's usually $15-20 a box where equivalent .40 is $13-16 and 9mm is $9-12.

It's also not really any more powerful than .40, although it does put power down differently. Where .45 has more mass, .40 has more velocity and both are roughly on par when using hollow points.

Two other advantages. You can always get .40 if there's a panic buy and since most .40 guns are built on 9mm frames you can often get conversion barrels and shoot both.

t. I have a Glock 23 with night sights and a lone wolf barrel that I bought used for $400. It's not my favorite gun but I have used it a lot and it delivers the goods. Too practical and worthless to sell.

>>35055581
>not to go .40

5 years from now you won't be able to get ammo or it will cost $10/rd

do internet search for phrases like

decline 40 caliber

>>35055581

Here we go again...

.40 is essentially a much more effective bullet, and does a good job mitigating the inherent weakness to handguns.

9mm conversely leans into it's low energy, and says that it's ok to need 15 bullets to stop an attacker, you can mag dump super fast like most of the operators on /k/. Plus it's .02 cents cheaper, so it's a huge savings.

If you think this gone will just be for punching paper, just get the 9mm, so your little sister can shoot it too. If you have any plans on protecting your god given gift of life, or the lives of those you love, you should get the .40

>>35055653

Good try, anon, but these kiddies can't be talked into more power any easier than you can convince them their skinny jeans are effeminate.

Good try though, the .40's robust power is obvious to the fair minded among us

>>35055581
There's not really a functional difference between 9mm, .45, and .40

It's shot placement.

And as much as I can respect that a .40 can ruin cinderblocks faster, as a physician, I also have seen the effects of these weapons on actual people.

Here's what matters: the bullet strikes a vital organ such as the brain or heart or the bullet manages to lacerate a large vessel.

That's what matters if you are trying to kill someone. If you accomplish that, it doesn't matter if you are using a .45 or 9mm because their wound patterns are essentially indistinguishable.

If you want .40, then get a p229 or a glock 22.

>>35058553
>5 years from now you won't be able to get ammo or it will cost $10/rd
KEK. At most it'll bump up 2-3cpr to hover around where 38 special is at. I doubt that honestly since 38 special is brass intensive.

40 will never be a dead cartridge. There's simply too many guns made for it and agencies/departments are still buying up 40s.

Right now it's more produced than 9mm in the US. 9mm is only cheaper because of material and all of the slave labor slavshit coming in.

TLDR, poorsfags gonna poor, 40 S&W will outlive everyone on this forum.

>>35055581
Don't listen to /k/ about handgun calibers.
>22LR is either trash or it's the most deadly, depending on the day
>380 and 9mm couldn't kill a fly
>10mm is good and it never blows up guns
>40 is a useless cartridge because it is a shorter 10mm

.40 S&W is great. It routinely outperforms 9mm in one-shot stops, and it is similar in price. I can get 9mm for $12 a box of 50, and .40 costs $13.25 at the same shop.

>>35055653
>these bags of oranges simulate lungs
What? That doesn't seem right.

>>35058831

>as a physician

Sounds like a wannabe chiropractor taking license with the word Dr.

>>35059310
I've got to say, .40 is looking pretty good right now, esp. with police trade-ins and the like.

>>35060500
If you are a competent shooter, or even a semi-competent shooter, get the 40. I will say though, for a small gun, I do prefer the 9mm, like in a Shield or something. The .40 can be pretty snappy in a tiny package. That being said, in a full size package, I prefer the .40

>>35060405
More like healthcare professionals taking liberties. They don't have doctorates.

>>35060564
Well, it's going to be a while before I move the the US, and a while after that before permanent residency and this becomes relevant, but I'm keeping an eye on things. I'm not super happy about my fiancee being unarmed right now, to tell the truth.

>>35060405
Chiropractors aren't physicians. I'm an MD.

>>35060576
I agree that it's a problem.

>>35055581
the 92 is flawless. just go for it my man

>beretta

It's shit. Get a Glock and stop fagging up your life OP

>>35058831
.40 and .45 punch through bones much more effectively than 9mm

>b-but muh FBI gelslayer rounds

>>35061458
Glock is superior to your spaghetti nigger gun>>35061996

if you get a 96 you can get a 9mm barrel and shoot both rounds. I did that with my .40 90-two, even the stock .40 mags feed flawlessly. i think its more reliable as a 9mm TBQH

>>35062053
Beretta a shit

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I only suggest .40 cal pistols if they can easily be switched to .357 Sig. I bought a P229 in .40 and swapped in the .357 barrel. It's been love ever since. 357 Magnum(ish) power but with 12+1 rounds and easy reloads compared to a revolver. The price of ammo is higher than .40 and 9mm, but I get around it with a nearby ammo manufacturer that sells reloaded .357 Sig for $17 for 50 rounds to me.

But I digress. If a .357 swap isn't easy for the gun, don't bother. 40 doesn't offer anything substantial over 9mm +p.

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>>35055581
(in my opinion) Paul Harrel is the best resource for firearms related knowledge available on the internet. Check him out for info about this question.

https://youtu.be/GKpfOc7iSeo
Who is Paul Harrel and why should you care about his opinion on anything firearms related

https://youtu.be/LTTDgZZZFa0
9mm vs .40
FBI 1986 Miami Dade Shooting: An Analysis.
.40 vs .45
https://youtu.be/uaKiPRcWX90

https://youtu.be/iv8cByaVyNQ
FBI 1986 Miami Dade Shooting: An Analysis.

45. vs 10mm
https://youtu.be/iBkjdutVmFA

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>>35062081
sorry for the drunken mess post. you decipher which caption belongs to which link..

>>35055581
9mm is cheaper/easier to shoot and .40 only offers marginal increases in per round performance.

Being better trained easily trumps that.

OTOH if you're already a proficient shooter there isn't really any good reason not to at least give .40 a try. It may not blow 9mm out of the water but it does have advantages.

>>35061372
Specialty and relevant experience?

>>35055738
This. I>>35055747
snt it just barrel and mags?

>>35062111
just barrel, the .40 mags feed 9mm perfectly. they will hold 16 rounds of 9mm

>>35062080
I carry a G32 in winter months when everyone is wrapped up in parkas and multiple layers. Would not recommend as a first or only gun, its spendy to shoot.

>>35062081
>(in my opinion) Paul Harrel is the best resource for firearms related knowledge available on the internet.
Your opinion is shit, and you should shut the fuck up.

>>35062148
.t james yager fan who doesn't know who paul harrel is

>>35062163
>i ascribe personal beliefs to people over the internet so that their opinions don't count and i "win"!
Typical phagget. Enjoy you shitty pseudoscience and aesthetic if you want, try not to confuse it for reality though.

If youre gonna go .40 in a steel framed pistol go HK USP and stop being a faggot

>>35055754
this guy is right
you don't want to look like a faggot
he might try to blow you in public

>>35062529
you dumb faggot, you've never listened to any of this guys matieral.

you're a basic ass nigger low lvl troll bitch please

>>35062579
I've watched almost every single video on his youttube, excepting some that didn't pique my interest.

But you know, dont let that stop you from continually ascribing beliefs and facts to me so that you can "win".

You phaggets have such homogenous thoughts and actions that some days i seriously wonder if it's just 2-3 dedicated lurkers championing him... Then again idiots all do start to sound the same over time...

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>>35062669
literally the only think I said was

"hey op my personal opinion is that this guy is a great resource, here's x y and z videos related to the question you are asking." and you came along to shit on my sandcastle. don't you have something better to do, tyler?

>>35062736
All i said is that if Paull harrell is, in your opinion, the best source for firearms related information on the internet then your opinion is shit.

Mostly because only some kind of ignorant motherfucker would say that. If you're really so lacking in experience that you believe paul harrell is the best firearms information source on the internet then frankly you should probably refrain from making recommendations.

Just an opinion though bro, don't go shitting on my sandcastle or anything

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>>35062922

>paul harrel
>20 years military
>marine corps 0311
>combat marksmanship instructor
>Navy CRF school (among others)
>won 6 state championships
>western regional pistol championship winner
>national pistol champion
>international champion
>demonstrates extremely high level of shooting competency
>clearly articulates great information about handguns and self defense
yes, he is a good candidate for best gun info on youtube or the internet. you're a faggot

>>35062993
>paul harrell
>20 years military experience in which he did absolutely nothing worth mentioning(by his own admission)
>pretty good at winning marksmanship competitions
>shot people on two different occasions
>teaches people how to shoot
He knows a lot about marksmanship and that's about it. You can find plenty of people with more experience militarily, in firearms history, in terminal ballistics, in tactical training, in legal experience, or even in real world self defense experience.

He literally has aesthetic, a little real world experience, and good marksmanship info. He loves to go out of his depth on other topics though and pretend to be an authority.

You're just like all the rabid fanboys who can't objectively critique somebody they like.

>>35063058
look at how jewish he is, dont trust a word he says

>>35063079
so know im wrong because you've decided im anti-Semitic, huh?

Really busting out some new tricks here deciding what i think and feel to make me be wrong again.

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>>35063058
>He loves to go out of his depth on other topics though and pretend to be an authority.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. He prefaces every video by stating the following:

"These are my opinions based on my own experience education, and source material. Different people have different experience, and therefor different opinions, and source material often does not agree with each other."

The guy has a level of military (and civilian experience rarely available to the public. The guy was involved with more than one self defense shooting http://www.wallowacountychieftain.com/20070619/harrell-freed-of-manslaughter-charges-in-troy-shooting) to boot. The man is active on youtube currently, extremely well spoken and possesses world-class shooting skill. His military accolades are impressive. What stick is up your ass, retard?

You're just being a contrary little niggerfaggot right now. Stop that, that's bad, NO. BAD. STOP THAT. THAT'S BAD.

>>35063118
>He prefaces every video by stating the following:...
Which totally excuses him from using pseudoscience to support his positions in a flashy manner that idiots cant separate from reality?

>The guy has a level of military (and civilian experience rarely available to the public.
absolutely false. There are plenty of people out there actively training and active on online communities with more military and/or civilian experience than paul.

>he shot somebody this one time
Im well aware, that's why i specified that he does have experience to speak from as it broadly relates to what happened to him. plenty of people have more experience in this area too. on the internet and in written form.

>The man is active on youtube currently, extremely well spoken
You miss the part where i said aesthetic?

> possesses world-class shooting skill. His military accolades are impressive.
Only an unrepentent fanboy phaggot would say that about paul. He has won no "world class" competitions im aware of and his military experience is both regular and lackluster as compared to many more experienced individuals.

>What stick is up your ass, retard?
That you're dumb, and more importantly indoctrinating others into your cult of stupid under the guise of helping them.

>You're just being a contrary little niggerfaggot right now.
Now we resume our regularly scheduled broadcast: Anon ascribing thoughts and beliefs to you so that he can feel more secure in his own!

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>>35063206
hey, you're that virgin guy from the other thread last night! I recognize you. You don't actually shoot guns or fuck pussy. Same wall-of-text replies.

Remember when you pretended you were "going to the movies now" and got lit the fuck up by everyone in the thread? TOPKEK M8

Want to know why we call you out on not getting regular pussy? Because you wouldn't act like this if you were fucking pussy on a regular basis. We can see you from a mile away bro. You're a turbo-autist.

>>35062922
>All i said is that if Paull harrell is, in your opinion, the best source for firearms related information on the internet then your opinion is shit.

Notably missing from your argument is an example of what you think a good source for firearms related information and how it compares to somebody like Paul Harrell.

>>35063264
>you're that virgin guy from the other thread last night! I recognize you. You don't actually shoot guns or fuck pussy.
It's like you think if you keep trying to say im this or that it's actually going to eventually make you less wrong or something

>Remember when you pretended...
Literally wasn't even on 4chan last night guy, was hanging with friends watching bama vs flor

the rest of your post doesn't even come close to qualifying as an argument so im not even going to bother.

>>35063298
It helps if youre specific. Do you want better military source, terminal/external ballistics, legal, or self defense? there are people more knowledgeable on just about every subject he speaks on.

>>35063346
>there are people more knowledgeable on just about every subject he speaks on.

You're not even debating the point anymore. Nobody ever made the claim that there is a person that knows everything about everything. That's just a strawman that you propped up for some reason possibly in an effort to not give a counterpoint to the argument that was presented to you.

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>>35063346
Dude we recognize you every thread. You don't even need a tripcode, because your replies are so predictable.

>wall of autistic greentext replies
You are exactly the same virgin from last night's thread. Fucking hilarious, you god damn turbed-autist. You are confounded, "how did they know it was me?" Again I must reveal - you act this way because you don't fuck pussy on a regular bases (or perhaps NEVER HAVE AT ALL.) Stop posting anytime bro. God damn funny as hell. Your jimjims are eternally rustled.

>>35063574
Paul harrell isn't an authoritative source on almost anything. Literally all i did was call out an idiot for thinking he was "the best resource for firearms related knowledge" when he clearly isn't and only somebody who didn't know what they were talking about would claim such.

All that's been presented to me is paul's experiences, of which i am well aware and have rebutted, and a bunch of insults and baseless insinuations about my personal beliefs/experiences.

If anybody lacks an argument it's you.

>>35063620
>thinks im someone im not
>thinks this makes him right
Same logic you've used this whole argument, typical phaggot reasoning at work right there...

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>>35063622
>all i did was call out an idiot for thinking he was "the best resource for firearms related knowledge" when he clearly isn't
>implying implications
>autism
>only somebody who didn't know what they were talking about would claim such.
>turboautism

>>35063633
You're a virgin, and I would even wager a small sum of cash that you are no-guns.

>>35055581
>What's so bad about it?

/k can't shoot it. Its fine if you have experience with guns and proper technique. It penetrates more and expands more reliably while doing so. People will complain about lack of capacity, but what they don't get is that the first 2 are more important than those extra 2 you have in a G17.

>>35055792
>It's usually $15-20 a box where equivalent .40 is $13-16 and 9mm is $9-12.

What year is it? Or are you talking about bulk prices?

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>>35063622
>Paul harrell isn't an authoritative source on almost anything.

what the fuck, nigger? do you know what the topic of this thread is??

>paul harrel teaches shooting the beretta m9 to military personnel for DECADES
>world class shooter, stacks of medals and trophies for shooting the m9
>makes videos on exactly the topic of 9mm vs .40
>somehow isn't relevant
all my what

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I just bought my 92A1 yesterday. Ama

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>>35063756
>Ama
what will you use the cup for?

>>35063778
To drink .40s from as I reload 9mm rounds.

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>>35063797
ok cool. also,

>640x480
why

>>35063643
let's go ahead and examine your argument line for line
>impling implcations
>autism
>turboautism
At what point did you present any kind of actual argument? all im seeing are ad hominems...

>You're a virgin, and I would even wager a small sum of cash that you are no-guns.
I might be a pathetic sack of shit IRL but i own firearms and have had relations with a women so like, still wrong.

>>35063719
Paul harrell does know more about the average individual about marksmanship and i have specified repeatedly that he does. This makes him a good source but not authoritative as there are more accomplished trainers out there(which is your only claim for pauls skill as a teacher). Also, this thread is actually about whether .40 or 9mm is a better choice, as specified in the OP. Most of anons OP was about paul's opinion on various calibers as well.

so like, no, not really.

>>35063622
>If anybody lacks an argument it's you.

For the record, my argument is that Paul's channel is one of the better ones for basic firearms knowledge.

You refute that argument, but have not given what you think is a better example for general firearms knowledge to give us any kind of perspective on where you're opinion is coming from. Instead, you make a baseless presumption that we're trying to make Paul look like some kind of omniscient being whose word is God. You continued to go off on a tangent by making your reply that we should refer to specific subject matter experts instead. True, but again, you are debating a point that was never brought up in the first place in an effort to make yourself seem right and correct by answering a question that nobody asked.

>>35063857
kill yourself virgin faggot

>>35063862
>For the record, my argument is that Paul's channel is one of the better ones for basic firearms knowledge.

no, for the record your argument was "Paul Harrel is the best resource for firearms related knowledge available on the internet"

You're just engaging in what's called moving the goal posts because you got tired of just throwing baseless ad hominems at me as a form of what you consider to be "arguing"

>You refute that argument
true

>but have not given what you think is a better example for general firearms knowledge
Not my job and not an argument. my position was rather clearly stated earlier with "Paul harrell isn't an authoritative source on almost anything" and "you opinion is shit". That's my argument in a nutshell.

>you make a baseless presumption that we're trying to make Paul look like some kind of omniscient being whose word is God
"Paul Harrel is the best resource for firearms related knowledge available on the internet"

maybe quoting you back at yourself will work?

>True, but again, you are debating a point that was never brought up in the first place in an effort to make yourself seem right and correct by answering a question that nobody asked.
Thanks for admitting im right on that atleast. You said, as i've quoted twice before that paul is THE BEST source for firearms info. My point is that you're wrong, that's stupid, and there are many better sources for firearms information but they mostly stick to the things that they actually fucking are experts on unlike paul.

at no point has my argument changed like some other peoples...

>>35063966
You do not fuck pussy on a regular basis

>>35063982
Beautiful argument, i think im done for the night. some of us have work in the morning after all.

>>35064153
Ask me how I know you don't fuck

>>35058831
>There's not really a functional difference between 9mm, .45, and .40

This is only true with top loads. With common/cheap jhp .40 and .45 have more advantage. If you carry a 9 you better be using the good shit.

>>35055581
.40 is the unhealthy medium between 9mm and 45 acp. 9mm is better at fragmentation and you can carry more of it. 45acp has more power and will make .40 look like .38spc (laughable). Pick 9mm or 45 acp. Going in the middle gives you the worst of both worlds.

>>35064881
Thanks for letting us know you don't know shit about guns. .40 is more powerful than .45.

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>>35064897
HAHAHA OH WOW

>>35059316
You clearly dont understand his humor. He does some funny as fuck shit in some of his videos lol

>>35064916
The .40 penetrates deeper in that pic you fucking dolt.

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>>35064916
you may be wondering
>B-B-B-B-BUT THAT CANT BE, THE 45 HAS A MORE CONSISTENT AND DEADLIER PATTERN THAN FOU-
Having more muzzle kinetic power on paper means absolute shit if the projectile is smaller. Your shitty foudy short and weak will not wreak the same havoc of a 45acp because the slug of a 45 is heavier and bigger. This is so simple what do you not understand?

The Beretta 96 is a shitty blunder. You take a successful 9mm pistol that holds an impressive (at the time) 16 rounds and limit it to .40 with a 12 round magazine. It's dumb

>>35064940
that simply is not true. Take a closer look. Just imagine if they used +p, foudy would be on suicide watch. The only reason the FBI adopted that round is because 10mm was too hard on the women

>>35064966
>that simply is not true. Take a closer look.
The 180gr bullet goes deeper than the .45. Thats what I see, how do you not see that?

>Your shitty foudy short and weak will not wreak the same havoc of a 45acp because the slug of a 45 is heavier and bigger.

Yet the evidence you provided says the opposite. Also there are numerous accounts of .45 penetrating worse than 9mm. Its why the US switched to the M9 in the first place.

>This is so simple what do you not understand?


I don't understand how you can ignore evidence.

>The Beretta 96 is a shitty blunder. You take a successful 9mm pistol that holds an impressive (at the time) 16 rounds and limit it to .40 with a 12 round magazine. It's dumb

True, but that isn't .40s fault Beretta can't design a pistol for it.

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>>35065007
>I don't understand bottlenecking
your tyrone bullet stops expanding before the 45 does. Do you know what you're talking about? It stops expanding almost immediately. 45 expands until almost half way, which could cause superior damage. Pay attention
>45 penetrates worse
no it doesnt
>that's why they replaced it with 9mm
no you fucking idiot the 1911 holds 8 rounds, the beretta holds double. You're a fucking mongoloid where do you get your information from?
>>35065007
They tried to take onto a fad that got out of control.

>>35065047
>your tyrone bullet stops expanding before the 45 does.

Yeah, and? What is the 90s when people though expansion mattered? The permanent wound cavity after expansion on the .40 is bigger too.


>It stops expanding almost immediately.

Wait what fucking picture are you looking at.

>no it doesnt

It does though.

>no you fucking idiot the 1911 holds 8 rounds, the beretta holds double. You're a fucking mongoloid where do you get your information from?

The army you fucking idiot. They wanted a 9mm because it penetrated better and at farther distances.

>They tried to take onto a fad that got out of control.

Its not a fad though. It took the FBI over 20 years to change their minds on it after their limpwristed office working police force couldn't handle the recoil of .40.

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>>35065098
>expansion doesn't matter
nigger that is categorically wrong. The bigger the expansion the more damage it causes
>I don't understand what I'm looking at please hold my hand
see the picture and the filename
>anecdotes
prove this. Unless you can tell me that the US army didn't adopt the Beretta m9 because of the magazine size, you're wrong. You're wrong either way though.
>p-penetration
look at the graph AGAIN you mongoloid
>fouty abandoned again :(
It's homeless like the nigger round it is

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>40 anything

Ever noticed how none of the top guys in the training and gun industry carry or use 40? All the agencies and PDs switching away from it? There's a good reason for that.

Don't let all the retards who fell for buying a gun in 40 convince you to join their ranks as a way to justify their purchase.

>>35065098
>he doesn't respond after I nicely graphed evidence that 40 is gay
typical 40 cal faggot, short a weak

>>35065167
>nigger that is categorically wrong. The bigger the expansion the more damage it causes

No, thats not true at all. You are conveniently believing which facts suit you while ignoring the ones that don't. The FBI and everyone else who matters says expansion is irrelevant.

Whats worse is the way you autistically measured the expansion is even more irrelevant. You talk about "stops expanding" while ignoring the fact that the .40 expanded faster and sooner. Than couple that with the fact the expansion difference is minimal. Don't forget that 4 inches of gel represents skin which means that most of the expansion is wasted on breaking skin, for both bullets. Despite all of that the important factor like penetration is won out by .40.

>see the picture and the filename

Mapping it out doesn't prove your point though, so good job sperging for no reason.


>look at the graph AGAIN you mongoloid

Thats not a graph you dumb trailerpark trash neanderthal, and it still proves my point.

>It's homeless like the nigger round it is

Your whitetrash memes don't change the fact that it was only abandonded due to limpwristed fagots at a desk.

>>35066147
I went to bed you dumb fagot

>>35055716
Jesus. He should have stopped after the 1st and realized hus genetics were trash...
or he's just killin it in the .gov handout game.

>>35062080
Just buy .40 +p

If you fags would watch Pual's vids linked above where he demonstrates.40 and .45 smashing through bone a lot better than 9mm (through shoulder to heart type shots) and then demonstrates shooting .40 and .45 with great speed and accuracy, there is. a strong case for those calibers given that the difference in capacity in pooular guns (say g19 vs g23) is negligible

>>35066547
That kid looks Incan as fuck. Like literally should be on a temple wall.

>>35055581
There is nothing wrong with .40. Your taking the memes of crackers who can't even do math over scientific tests.

Go look up ballistics tests yourself. It blows a big hole in things.

>>35055581
the 92 already had issue with cracking frames after extended rounds in 9mm, going .40 will only increase the wear.

>>35055704
If you want metal, then get a 10mm if you're looking for power over a 9mm. Same capacity as a .40, and an actually appreciable increase in effectiveness over 9mm.

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>>35067641

10mm is a meme. Look at the velocity and date chart in this link. The difference is marginal. http://gundata.org/blog/post/10mm-vs-40-summary-and-ballistics/

MUH FBI LOADS! Thats what you'll find in boxed ammo. You might get better performance with a handload but then you gonna risk kabooms.

>>35067902
You can get Buffalo bore or Underwood, but then you have to pay ridiculous prices.

>>35055686
>literal fag calling someone else a fag
Almost as kek as a retard screaming retard at somebody.

ITT: manlets complaining "cannot into proper grip, so how can into sustained recoil???"

>>35063857
Spotted the regressive libTARD. Sperg harder fagget and don't forget your helmet.

>>35055581
i own a 96. its pretty good. only went with a 96 because i live in commiefornia so either way i was only gonna end up with 10 rounds and the dude was selling it for $400 when used 92's run for almost the price of a new one where i live.

>>35055716
Honestly the guys a tard fucker if youve ever seen his wife.
My cousin is the same way althPugh he is workong on a masters degree. From what I can tell he has a helping fetish????

>>35062068
>>35061956

based on what?

>>35055653
Paul is the man

>>35063672
Bulk prices off the top of my head. Imma check SGammo.

9mm
http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-or-wpa/50-round-box-9mm-luger-115-grain-fmj-steel-case-wolf-wpa-polyformance-or-militar
http://www.sgammo.com/product/prvi-partizan/50-round-box-9mm-nato-124-grain-ppu-prvi-partizan-ammo-ppn9
.40 is much cheaper than I thought. Only $1-2 more than 9mm.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/40-cal-ammo/50-round-box-40-cal-sw-180-grain-fmc-flat-point-ammo-magtech-40b
http://www.sgammo.com/product/40-cal-ammo/50-round-box-40-cal-sw-180-grain-fmj-sellier-bellot-brass-case-ammo-sb40b
And .45 is about a dollar more.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/45-auto-acp-ammo/50-round-box-45-auto-230-grain-fmj-sellier-bellot-brass-case-ammo-sb45a

Holy fuck ammo is cheap right now.

>>35063206
What a miserable little human you are. Everything you are saying is pure opinion. You're countering some one with experience by acknowledging than dismissing that experience. Yes, other people have experience. So does he. No one had done everything. Pull your head out of your ass and calm the fuck down you retarded little cunt. And I swear to christ if you say "ascribing thoughts and beliefs" one more time I will skull fuck you. What is that the phrase of the day your special ed class learned yesterday?

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>>35066536
>refusing to read graphs
I bet you'd agree the 40cal is fucking gay if you actually owned a gun you dumb nigger. Kill yourself

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>>35070976
There is no graph you tard. I looked at your picture and that picture makes my fucking point.

Also I own more guns than you most likely.

>>35071028
"there is no graph"
>sees this
>>35064916
>>35064966
>>35065167
You're so fucking dumb. You have to post other people's guns on this shitty Taiwanese nationalist website

>>35072883
Thats my gun, and those things you posted aren't graphs. One is a spread sheet, and the others pictures of test mediums. Thanks for letting us all know you are stupid as fuck.

>>35059262
Or a 35

>>35067902
FBI loads are the cancer killing 10mm. They should have been dropped as soon as .40 took off, or at least relabeled as "Light load", and then pushed the original loadings. If anything, .40 is a meme in the true sense of the word, having become pervasive even though it's negligibly more effective than 9mm.

>>35077759
Are .40 the same as fbi/light 10mm loads?

>>35077795
Yep.

>>35077795
They literally just took away the empty space that resulted from downloading the original load to FBI specs. They then figured out that they could fit it in 9mm frames, which companies already had machinery for.

>>35077858
>>35077886
Interesting. Never knew that.

>>35077759
>having become pervasive even though it's negligibly more effective than 9mm.

Its not negligibly more effective though. It penetrates better expands more reliably, and you don't need to buy a specific ammo for your gun to have it perform well.

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>>35063620
>>35063264
Classic.

>>35055581
.40 is a higher pressure round than 9mm, it generates a more sharp recoil impulse and wears the gun more quickly because of that fact. It is also more vulnerable to catastrophic (as opposed to graceful) failures for that same reason.

Most handguns in .40 were not purpose built for that chambering as as such are overbuilt in some places and underbuilt in others as opposed to their 9mm counterparts which were optimized such that they would not be particularly overbuilt or underbuilt in any single place (see partially supported 40 cal Glock chamber memes).

The .40 is mechanically and practically also a less precise/accurate round because of its internal ballistic characteristics.

The .40 does outperform the 9mm in one shot stops... but only by 2% (95% v. 93%, iirc) and that marginal difference doesn't seem particularly meaningful when one recalls that it's ONE SHOT on target, so all the times somebody got more than one shot on target with a 9 and successfully stopped the threat for that reason got thrown out. We have to remember that the marshal test was a comparison of the efficacy of a single round on target, and that it's not a "if you carry X caliber you have a Y% chance of living through a violent encounter" data table.

>>35080836
samefag here

The .40 does have its place, and it's not ill suited to HD/CCW use, but whether it's actually significantly better than 9mm is not really a question with an easy answer.

sure, the .40 has some marginal advantages like being a natural safe sister to a collection which already has a 10mm and loading dyes, or a slightly higher one shot stop rate but it also has many marginal disadvantages such as weight, less aftermarket support, worse recoil characteristics, lower capacity, etc.

The one real advantage it has over the 9 decisively is that you can convert a .40 caliber pistol to an overbuilt 9mm quite easily, so in states/countries/financial situations where buying more than one pistol is a hassle you get more bang for your buck if you go with a mainstream .40 S&W pistol in much the same way that the new "chassis" systems (ie. sig p320, etc.) offer flexibility in similar situations, just to a lesser degree.

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>>35067641
not according to Evan Marshall.

Quit spouting old memes and make sure your claims are actually based on data.

>>35055581
9mm isnt as expensive so you can spend the same from budget and get more bang for your buck and shooting more means more training and more training will save your life.

>>35055581
I don't care about the pistol caliber debate I'm just going to point out that .40 s&w is more expensive than 9mm.

You can get more practice with cheaper round and shot placement is more important in life or death situation than round velocity or size.

>>35055581
I've carried both the M9 in the army and later the 96 as PMC. I can tell you the gun was never designed for the sharper recoil and thus will wear out quicker. I can also say that for the same reason it tends to develop cracks on the slide. If you're planning on going 3 gun with it or put hundreds of rounds through it a month, it's not worth it. Other than that, it really doesn't make enough difference to matter either way.

Oh god its one of "these" threads again.

1-3 shots in the vital areas will put down anyone, regardless of caliber.
Shot placement > everything else

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>>35055637
Always love the .357 ballistic results, but isn't over penetration a big issue with 10mm and .357?

I want the bullet to go into one guy, expand and stop, not through four guys and then a wall.

>>35080920
No, the distinct advantage of .40 is the fact that it has good speed, and good momentum so it penetrates and expands well even when going through a hard barrier first. This is important because street combat involves having to shoot through cars, bookshelves, the candy aisle, and the lighter case.

>>35080991
9mm goes for 200-220 for brass when .40 can be had for 250-270 for brass. This is for 1,000 rounds. Thats a small difference compared to how much people actually shoot their guns.

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>>35055704
>>35055769
This. I just got my P229 a few days ago in .40 and .357 sig. Both are fantastic in it.

Plastic guns are disgusting.

>>35081261
That's a 30 dollar difference at the 9mm top end .40 s&w low end. $30 isn't negligible and isn't money that couldn't be better spent elswhere. If you have a monthly ammo budget of 1000 rds. $30 ends up being $360. That's half the price of a mid price range pistol. With 9mm you save $360 year. Which reinvested back into ammo is another case of 1000rds or a trijicon or vortex sight you could mount on your pistol.

>>35081261
>>35082354
Also the reason .40s&w vs 9mm vs 45acp debate still rages is that there isn't profoundly strong evidence which round would be more deadly for self defence. From a money perspective which translates to an ease of training perspective which translates to skill, 9mm is best.

>>35082354
>If you have a monthly ammo budget of 1000 rds

Ok just stop, no one shoots this much ammo in a month. Most people will go through that in a year or half a year, so if you want to be taken seriously please don't bring up such a ridiculous premise.

30 dollars aint shit if it gives you a better round, I make that in 2 hours, in an hour and a half if I work over time. 30 dollars over a 6 month period is nothing. If you have 270 dollars to spend on ammo **monthly**, then you really don't what 30 dollars does for you.

>>35082397
We know from police encounters and watching people shoot hard barriers that .40 is better.

>>35082500
This

9mm is alot cheaper

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>>35082500
Not that anon but, I shoot once a week you fucking faggot. Every Tuesday. I drive an hour south to an outdoor range and spend about two hours with my carry pistol. I love shooting.

I buy 1000 rounds of steel case 9mm for $100 or 1000 rounds of top-end 124gr NATO for $200. I buy the NATO because the impulse is much closer to my carry ammo. I shoot 250 rounds per trip, and I shoot some rifle too. Why are you so poor and stupid?? Yes, I spend $200 a month on ammo. How do I do it?

I don't:
>pay for cable TV
>go out to eat a lot
>buy beer or alcohol
>drink at bars

I don't even make that much money and I live comfortably and have a girlfriend. Why do faggots in these threads act like spending a little money on something you are passionate about is impossible or like nobody does it?

>>35084279
>dont buy alcohol
Sounds like a shit life tbqhwyf

>>35084279
Not that anon but, I shoot once a week you fucking faggot

Ok knob gobbler I never said you didn't, but you don't shoot 1k per month. Prove to me otherwise

>I shoot 250 rounds per trip,


>buy beer or alcohol
>drink at bars

So you have no social life? Ok, thats fine that you want to practice protecting your waifu collection, but the rest of us can only afford to shoot like that maybe twice a month because we want to talk to people and socialize.

>Why do faggots in these threads act like spending a little money on something you are passionate about is impossible or like nobody does it?

Because most of /k/ doesn't do this. Welcome to the concept of guilty by association.

>>35055581
.40 is the "I'm a centrist with no actual opinions or convictions" of calibers.

>>35082500
I shot that much last week.

>>35084610
Not true at all, its for people who want more power than .45 at the cost of less capacity of 9mm. A small trade off.

>>35084634
Prove it, show your ammo receipts or at least your stockpile.

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>>35084562
>So you have no social life? Ok, thats fine that you want to practice protecting your waifu collection

You missed the part of my post where I explicitly stated
>I live comfortably and have a girlfriend.

I work in IT and part time at a gun shop. Just because I don't waste my money at bars, or at the movies, or on gay donkey porn subscriptions (don't pretend you don't) doesn't mean I haven't got a social life.

evenings after work:
>cook dinner at home and fuck gf

days off:
>go shooting
>clean funs
>visit friends

Income plays a large part here. Let me explain something to you:

for the guy who makes $30 p/h and doesn't have a verizon plan with a wife and kids on it plus cable TV, a mortgage, car payments etc. $200 isn't a lot of money to spend doing something he greatly enjoys. neets saving their neetbux or working part time for $10 per hour can't imagine having money saved in the bank or extra $$ each paycheck. anyway good on you for shooting regularly, these days probably nobody on /k/ does that I agree

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>>35084721
>more power than a 45

>>35084721
>more power than .45
They're all the same, nigger. 9mm = .40 = .45 ACP in terms of killing ability, which is goose shit

>>35084865
>i repeat things that i read on /4chin because they sound reasonable and middle-ground
hey go watch videos of 9mm vs. .45 when it comes to smashing through pork / beef ribs. you may be interested to know that .40 and .45 do a much better job at smashing through a shoulder and then through ribs and then into a mammal's heart than 9mm. or you might not, who knows. profile shots don't seem very common.

>>35084853
Except its true. Look here http://www.ballistics101.com/40_caliber_sw.php

http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php

>>35055581
theyre both shit. get a glock

>>35084840
>for the guy who makes $30 p/h and doesn't have a verizon plan with a wife and kids on it plus cable TV, a mortgage, car payments etc. $200 isn't a lot of money to spend doing something he greatly enjoys

Yeah, you missed the point where I addressed this here>>35082500
If you have 270 dollars to spend on ammo **monthly**, then you really don't care what 30 dollars does for you.

>>35084865
They aren't though, .40 penetrates the best, and gel blocks aren't whats trying to kill you. Put bones in that gel block and then tell me 9/45 are as strong, especially since they have less energy than .40