I live in a country where your first gun has to be a .22 pistol

In all honesty, if you practice shot placement, .22lr out of a rifle is just about the perfect human/varmint cartridge within 200 yards.

>>35038788
That's what I think, also the velocity out of a rifle barrel interests me more than the concealability of a pistol.

And since suppressors and extended mags are not regulated, it makes more sense to me.
I also like the takedown feature as I walk to my shooting range and live in a large city so I could carry it inconspicuously in a backpack on my way and back.

>>35038772
What country requires 22 first?

>>35038772
>How viable does it sound for lack of better options in the foreseeable future?

Better than nothing. Where you from? You can get get cans and mags but not big bollets, not sure if thats awesome or shitty.

In which country do you live?

>not choosing the INTEGRALLY SUPPRESSED 10/22 takedown

>>35038817
Finland. It is my understanding that you could apply for a larger caliber to start but the permit would be declined unless you have a great reason (hunting caliber or idpa and even then it might fail)

Plus two years shooting range experience if you want a pistol, none for rifles.

>>35038832
It's for the first gun, after that its all calibers are available!

>>35038850
Isn't it bitch to clean for regular range use?

>>35038859
You are wrong. First gun is not required to be 22lr and it's not even a policy to do so. But you do need a valid reason for obtaining a license and that's either hunting or sport.

If you already have a hunting permission you can easily get a shotgun (single shot, semi or pump) or a bolt-lock rifle in any calibers. For semi automatic rifles you need to have a history of sport shooting (SRA, IPSC). So for a rifle in your pic you need to join a reservist club first and then go to the police after few practices with a rental gun first.

>>35038772
.22s should get MUCH more love.

Chechens pioneered them for urban sniping. They are quiet which makes them hard to localize, and they are lethal enough plus wounded take up enemy resources.

They hold a shitload of ammo and they are light.

I have a better question for /k/ tards:

You can only have a .22 LR weapon so what's the best urban warfare 22?

>>35038877
The ruger one and the gem tech one are mono core, so no. The other ones are all probably mono core as well but not sure.

This is interesting:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-525017.html

"I’ve gained a new respect for the 22LR and its efficiency. The 22 rounds is very underrated. It many ways, it is much more powerful then I anticipated.

From a tactical viewpoint, it was also very interesting that despite the atrocious conditions, basic ballistic information and field craft (wind cycle, shooting in the wind, etc…) make it possible to shoot effectively that round at medium distances.

300 yards can be a VERY doable and an effective shooting distance in normal conditions. We did it in terrible conditions.

Although I probably won’t do further tests, I can imagine that round penetrating layers of clothing and be effective at much longer distances then 300 yards –maybe 500 yards and beyond.

But now I consider proven that within 300 yards it can be accurate and extremely lethal!

Hope this help others to gain more respect as well for the small 22LR and thus make sure we all practice safe shooting, even if it looks like a tiny little round!"

>>35038896
I'm a foreigner (white ;) ) so no reserve for me. Also inferior city dweller so no hunting either. I have access to a pistol range where pcc are aloud and this is the information I received from them and after asking the local police department.

>>35038896
Also I have two years of documented shooting and 4 on total.

>>35038932

I doubt you'll get a semi rifle as a first gun. And if you do, tell me where you live and I'll move there in a heartbeat!

If you can't hunt or join the reservists then your only choice is to join some SAL (Finnish gun sports association) clubs which have Practical shooting teams. With them you are not required to have accomplished military service. Check out if your town has any clubs available:

https://ipscfin.sporttisaitti.com/

>>35038772
It's not ideal, but it's far from worthless.
As said, .22LR from a rifle barrel actually has pretty respectable velocity and penetration, considering how light recoil is and how quiet it can be with a silencer.

>>35038805
Then it's a relatively versatile weapon.
Using some hot and reliable ammo like CCI Stingers or MiniMags, and good magazines like Ruger BX25 or Butler Creek Steel Lips, you have something to be reckoned with.

5rds of .22LR from a rifle barrel, in one's chest, in a moment, that's not a nice feeling, that's no joke, you can actually defend yourself rather decently with that.

If you want more versatility, once you're past the starting point of rimfire, consider a shotgun of some sort, they can be very versatile, your choice of ammo and chokes can radically alter it's suitability for various tasks.

File: 1490134931060.jpg (2MB, 2448x3264px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2448x3264px

I'm not worried about jihadi stabbers as the Finnish police is very competent and reacts fast, and shooting a terrorist is a great way to ruin your life in Northern Europe.
But I have seen "flash riots" where 30-50 Somali youth walk down a neighborhood and start shit with the locals. And with what bleeds in from Sweden, it's just a matter of time before the local darkies get the balls to start claiming entire neighborhoods. Fortunately I live in a fancy area near embassies so I'm pretty far from the ghetto, but my all white upper class neighborhood is a juicy target in a crazy scenario so I daydream about armed answer to an angry mob.

Fantasy time! What would be your go-to rifle for crowd suppression? I'd go with a scoped, drum fed rifle for maximum dakka from the rooftops.

>>35038984
Thank you for the info!

No semi-auto, even rimfire? No one told me that, crap.

That kinda throws my plan in the water.

>>35039053
Unfortunately in Finland the caliber is not an issue, the action is. Semiautomatic it the most dangerous thing ever invented (according to Finnish officials) so they are most difficult to get. Only exception is the shotgun but with them you also have limit the magazine to max 3 shells...

Practical/IPSC is fun and you'll get access to semi-autos, pistols and all the best funs you can get in this country. Downside is it requires you to join some club. Easiest way to get a firearm in here is to start hunting, but then you are pretty much limited to bolt/lever action rifles nowadays. In past you were able to get semi auto rifles for hunting also.

>>35038877
No, the Ruger one is designed to be very easy to disassemble and clean.

>>35038788
>200 yards
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>35039009
>What would be your go-to rifle for crowd suppression?

One that can toss a bullet trap rifle grenade at least 90 meters. It's easy to make bullet trap grenade adapters which themselves are inert. I've done it and it's legal in the USA. (An explosive payload is illegal unless proper paperwork is complied with, but in social collapse it's your call to save your life or not.)

I won't publish specs because if you have the savvy to make them you'll need to machine test units and fire them to ensure your bullet trap works and the tube doesn't burst. Mine worked but there was some bulging when I fired the same part more than once for testing. I gave it up after learning how to do it since I have other hobbies, but you can figure it out by studying existing bullet trap systems, WWII US "grenade adapters, then combining the two designs.

Rifles don't suppress crowds well. Fire and chems and smoke and explosives are what you'd need, and you'll go to jail forever in the EU or US for using them.

Fougasse would get it done, but the best way to avoid crowds of enemies is to live in a defensible rural location. Piss on cities, cities are deathtraps for whites. You'd be trapped between cannibal shitskins and your government who love them.

The velocity from a long pistol's barrel isn't much worse than a rifle's with .22s; they are loaded with pistol powder.

SV-99s are a thing.

File: Areare+you+trying+to+say+with+that+screencap+that+you+re+_55c1e3c7ae442026900055bef369e103.jpg (22KB, 326x294px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 326x294px

>>35039009
>Trusting your life to the police
It's moments like this that the gulf between the Yurp-een way of thinking and Burger really shines. Your protection is your personal responsibility. Just hoping the state will take care of you isn't viable. You're hoping another SERIES of human beings in a chain won't fuck up, will be fast enough, and won't have any qualms about risking their life for yours. The only completely reliable person to protect you in a shit scenario is you.

File: 1499302664544.jpg (92KB, 720x576px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 720x576px

>>35039088
I tried joining the hunting group where my family's mökki is located but their answer was "lolnope, you don't own enough land to be a valuable addition to the group". And the fuckers dare to complain that they can't find enough young men interested in hunting!

Ipsc sounds great but costly too, it's a bit off-putting, I don't know where to start. Any tips?

>>35038772
Some anon did the math a month or two back when a summer lamp kid kept arguing his 22 was perfectly good for URBAN OPERATIN. It won't so much as crack a rib at 100 yards. Plus, your soul wounding mechanism is the tiny hole it pokes. It's not 223 where yawning and fragmenting are reliable for wounding within typical engagement distances.

File: police no duty to protect.jpg (61KB, 638x479px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 638x479px

>>35039128
True everywhere, but doubly true for us burgers.

>>35039140
Well yeah, it costs a lot, but in here there is no way to shoot cheaply. It is systematically intended to be difficult and costly so people would not do it.

If you just go to a range and rent a pistol every time it will also cost a lot in a long run and you still don't have a gun of your own. You have a history of shooting so you can always ask for a AAK letter (ampuma-ase kouluttaja) from your range and just apply for a permit of a .22 pistol or that Ruger in your pic. It's a 50-50 chance, some stations will give you the permit for you obviously shoot and have someone to vouch for it, but some stations still demand an official sport ("SAL official") just because they hate us and "shooting in a range" is not a sport in here.

>>35039331
Of course they make it difficult and costly. How else would they properly subjugate you?

>>35039140
You can also just do the test for hunting permit. It does not require you to join any hunting groups. When applying for weapon permits you just say you hunt alone and on government land (up north).

File: 1474446107313.jpg (90KB, 817x434px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 817x434px

>>35039128
Dude, read my post again! The main reason I HAVE to trust the cops is that using self defense would guarantee your life is ruined. Even cops are scrutinized for shooting a mass murderer. A civilian would end in jail.

I'd love to say fuck you gubmint I'll take care of myself and cc around town, but I can't and if I did and used the gun, I'd get raped by the law.

So I must trust the cops and they happen to be professional, competent and fairly uncorrupt where I live. Could be worse!

>>35038772
it'd work for a bug out gun. but as for a bug in or a securing the hood type deal, you might wanna look for something that makes em more deader more faster. sks imo. rugged. (relatively) cheap. big boollet. cheap ammo.

>>35039375
Calm down, skippy, I'm talking about the state of things, not YOU, where it is assumed that self preservation isn't a human right. I'm saying the government and cultural belief is nonsense, and self defense is as inherent a right as free speech. The problem is European nations don't even give that to their citizenry. It's fucked. Notice the 'concerned' picture.

>>35038772
I want to be shot with a .22 as much as i do any other caliber. Better than nothing.

I heard in the Bosnia wars 20 or so years back sharp shooters would use .22 and aim exclusively for eyes and throats.

I would be completely ok with a .22. preferably mag fed semi auto. But I wouldn't feel under-armed

>>35038788
I shoot .22LR at 200 yards. With hyper velocity ammo, the rounds drop about 2 feet. With standard velocity rounds, they are dropping about 14 feet. To consider the .22LR a 200 yard gun is really pushing it, especially with a 10/22. You better start buying a ton of Velocitors or Aguila Interceptors

File: 1499838044267.jpg (58KB, 564x564px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 564x564px

>>35039497
In that context I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I also would like to point out to most burgerbros that us euros are not all nanny state advocates and individual rights and freedom is a sentiment a lot of us share. Prepping and autocracy is for example widespread in France where the hippy and altermondialists opened the way for a lot of self sustained communities, including conservative and far right ones. People don't trust the government, especially thanks to the EU clusterfuck.
But post war boomers thought that the best way to avoid fascist dictatorships domination was to empower the government. Go figure. We are now living under bureaucrats who consider individuals undeserving of ownership, privacy and freedom. What a lovely picture.

>>35039660
Bingo as far as I was saying. That's where the concern for my personal liberty minded Yurp-friendos comes from. Honestly, I'm hoping for a pendulum swing in the not too distant future where EU fuckery finally pushes more states to leave the Merkel-sphere and reinvest in self rule and the agency of individualism and personal rights.

Or, come gay marry some burgers and enjoy lots of cheap land and plentiful guns.

>>35038772
It ain't an AR, but your viability will be much better with it than without.

File: 1211_saqueos_gente_armada_g10.jpg_1853027552.jpg (46KB, 728x500px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 728x500px

>>35038772
>Let's say a shtf race war riot happens, would you consider pic related sufficient for bugging in and secure the street/neighborhood?

It definitely it is, mine has been doing great during three riots/civil unrest days.

>>35039699
I'm already married to a Finn, thank god she shares my views on freedom and guns.
>We would have totally given birth in the USA for an anchor baby since illegals do it all the time but our son's health would've been jeopardized, after spending a month in Texas I was already seeing us move there. Turns out the free healthcare saved my kid and I'm glad we gave up a US passport if it meant keeping my little guy alive.

File: 1500433821500.jpg (66KB, 600x469px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 600x469px

>>35039761
Now to get a gun into his hands and feeling the freedoms

>>35038772
.22lr is perfect for SHTF and survival situations. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The only other viable option is a pump action shotgun, but having a suppressed 22 is pretty damn good.

I'd choose the following in order of priority for SHTF/survival.

1) Ruger 10/22
2) Mossberg 590a1
3) Some type of AR/AK variant

File: 1503372884486.jpg (109KB, 782x538px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 782x538px

>>35039830
I hope he will grow up in a better society than this, and I'd rather fight this fight so he doesn't have to.

>>35039876
He won't.

>>35039886
Not with that mindset, he won't. Bitch.

>>35039876
Merkel may be on the way out and recent elections are hopefully. Hopefully Europe turns around before the immigrant ghettos swallow it whole and Burgerland becomes the literal last stand for western civilization.

>>35039155
Yes I trust an anon who did a thought experiment over real field tests.
Fuck off retard.

>>35038772
.22 rifle is infinitely better then a pistol. Its not great but it can still kill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw

The issues your gonna have is,
>Shit range, your mostly worthless at ranges past 200 m
>Shit wounding ballistics
>Poor Penetration, a 22lr might not even punch through a stack of loaded pmags at 200m let alone hit vitals

Pros,
> You can carry fuck tons of ammo
>Close range you can just dump a hail of bullets

File: 1497900362017.gif (80KB, 720x480px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 720x480px

>>35040031
>t. 22 owning underageb& faggot.

Sure thing guy who gets upset over people talking about threads that happened over summer.

File: IMG_20170830_181835.jpg (45KB, 500x539px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 500x539px

>>35039106
From a box of CCI mini mags

>>35040478
Not that shitposter but do you really think it would be effective at taking someone down at that range?

File: 1502126561118.jpg (44KB, 719x719px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 719x719px

>>35040478
Range=/=EFFECTIVE range

File: AT5UPrY.jpg (123KB, 695x704px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 695x704px

>>35040478
Are all 22fags this stupid?

>>35038932
> Also inferior city dweller so no hunting either
Acquire a car; complete the hunter´s course, pay the hunter´s card yearly fee; petition for a shotgun license with reference to your keen interest in hunting, and finish it off with claiming "hunting on state-owned land" on your license application.

Landowners don´t have exclusive access to hunting in this country, buddy.

>>35040460
Nice proof that I'm wrong guy.

>>35039009
>I'm not worried about jihadi stabbers as the Finnish police is very competent and reacts fast
Their response time ranges from ten minutes in urban areas to half an hour or more in the countryside. Trusting your life on the constant close proximity of on-duty police officers is a dumb move.

>>35041248
This, I wouldn't fucking trust on that with the station in my neighborhood and a response time of 3 minutes, those minutes are very long in an emergency.

>>35039375
>The main reason I HAVE to trust the cops is that using self defense would guarantee your life is ruined.
Being dead is a worse outcome than a few measly years in jail.
>I'd love to say fuck you gubmint I'll take care of myself and cc around town, but I can't and if I did and used the gun, I'd get raped by the law.
You´d likely only be convicted of weapons charges (ampuma-ase rikos) if were to perceive the person you shot as a lethal danger. The problem isn´t the law, but rather your lack of interest in risking probation or a few months in prison in exchange for a remarkable increase in the security of your person.

>>35039637
2 vs 14? That's not a typo?

>>35039761
>claims to hold "freedom and guns" in high regard
>movies to an over-regulated welfare state
Why didn´t you stay in Texas after purchasing your spawn health insurance?

File: charger.png (419KB, 640x368px) Image search: [Google]

419KB, 640x368px

Ruger Charger.

>cheap
>simple
>reliable
>lightweight
>manuverable indoors
>could fit in a bug out bag
>enough after-market parts to customize it
>high ammo capacity
>good for small game
>.22lr can be lethal despite popular belief
>comes with a bipod to stabilize (relatively) longer shots
>top rail mount included
>fun as fuck

>>35038788
More like a 75 yd rifle.

>>35038913
Israelis use them for sniping/riot control.

>>35041452
Under the pretenses that it's less than lethal, also not at far distances.

>>35039875
I wouldnt use it for street sweeping but itll definitely change the mind of anyone breaking in with ill intent.

>>35038772
The largest moose ever taken in Alaska was a native woman taking shots from her cabin while the moose was crossing a river.

She may have taken 100 shots, I don't know, but what does it matter if the end result was a dead moose? Certainly situationally very capable.

>>35041297
Not a typo. At extreme distance, the ammo type makes an extreme difference. If you intend on shooting .22LR at 200 yards, try out a few different velocities and you will see what I mean.

>>35041827
I'd sure as fuck turn and run if someone was shooting .22 caliber at me.

>>35041849
That's not really the greatest example, and also consider that there's at least one recorded instance of some native up in Alaska having popped a big ol' angry grizzly in desperation, with her single .22 caliber shot. And it doesn't actually say anything beyond 'Sometimes you can be lucky."

A salvo of .22LR from a 10/22 (let's say six shots in one moment) does a lot of hurt and is easy to do, the target might just die on the spot.
Now compare six shots from a .22LR revolver, say an LCR, it'll hurt like shit, and it can be done fast, but your muzzle velocity is dramatically lower and none of your shots will penetrate as deep.
The guy you shot is in trouble, he can really die from this, but often it'll take it's time, it's a serious but slow bleeding. He might very well kill you in a rage and then die in an alley or a hospital waiting room an hour or so from now.

A .22LR pistol beats nothing, but it's a shaky proposition, a .22LR rifle beats the hell out of nothing, and you realistically have some decent chances.

>>35041950
>muzzle velocity is dramatically lower
Comparing a snubnose to a rifle, yeah.
But a longer pistol, like a 6" barrel, the velocity loss compared to a rifle barrel isn't too bad.
Diminishing returns and all that.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

>>35038772
So you don't live in Australia then.

>>35041244
Wrong about... what? You didn't claim a 22lr could break a human rib at 100 yards did you? If you did, look up the foot pounds of the round at 100 yards and compare it to the necessary impact force to break ribs, the auto industry has the data. I'll wait. Burden of proof, you nigger.

>>35038772
Id rather have a .22lr rifle like that with a red dot or low mag scope for the situation you described than most any handgun.

Faster followup shots, better accuracy, longer effective range, and higher capacity are gonna outweigh the benefits of marginal increases in lethality. Should do the trick fine, just avoid expanding/fragmenting ammunition or getting into any close range engagements.

>>35042345
>just avoid expanding/fragmenting ammunition
This, .22LR doesn't have enough mass and/or velocity for this to be a worthwhile venture for self-defense, just get the hottest ball ammo you can find, focus on maximizing your penetration.

>>35041950
I once read a story of a man who was shot in the chest at about 5 feet with a .22 short revolver, it went through his esophagus hit his spine and paralyzed him from the chest down. .22 is not a toy.

>>35042219
It's on you idiot.
You talked about some random anon.
I have a real field test.
Fuck off. Admit you didn't know what .22 can do and shut up

>>35042776
And I once read a story about a guy who stuck a matchbox car up his ass and ruptured his colon and died. Matchbox is not a sextoy.

Seriously though, 'no shit' award for you. A gun is not a toy? I don't think anyone here is signing up to get shot with 22 at any range. There are some people making claims that the likelihood of lethality may vary significantly with factors/choices.

A gun is not a toy? Sage wisdom on /k/

>>35042890
Im just simply reiterating the dangerousness of even a tiny caliber firearm...

>>35038859
lel enjoy semi-autos being prohibited you mongolian cuck
in anticipation of this, get a bolt or lever action .22

>>35038817
Germany if youre local range want this
Same here, I take the rifle

To be honest, I've never been a big fan of semiauto .22s. The reason why many of them are finiscky about ammo is that .22 really doesn't quite have enough oomph to reliably cycle semiautomatic actions. I mean, you can make it pretty much work most of the time, especially if you buy top-shelf ammo, but it's less reliable than I like. Frankly, the next time I buy a .22 rifle, I'm going to make it a Henry lever-action carbine.

>>35038772
Nothing can demoralize an enemy force like a daily headshot from a suppressed .22lr
Albuquerque has/had a suppressed match 10/22 as a sniper rifle, Israeli snipers had their 10/22s (to shoot Palestinians below the waist) taken away when it became too obvious they were intentionally aiming for the femoral artery.
Add in feeding yourself on small game, and .22 is a viable round in any situation as long as shot placement is there.
There's at least one video on YouTube with folks dropping wild hogs with .22lr. My favorite shows a .22lr tracer going into a hog's ear. Drops him like a bad habit.

>>35038772
>>35041432
100 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Z5azEPWk

File: DodgeCharger2.jpg (111KB, 600x548px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 600x548px

>>35041428
Hell yes.

>>35042890
Holy shit stop having an autism attack

>>35038772
You'll need to practice with the .22 to make good use of anything heavier. Just get the .22 and quit your bitching.

>>35042872
Thanks for admitting I'm right. Go give your dad back the 22 he leant you, and buy a real gun when you're old enough. Until then, rule 2 faggot, no underage.

>>35044678
What

>>35044681
He thinks he's badass.

.22 pistol for stripping and disposing of "Nazi" guards.

>>35038772
I grew up shooting a 22 semi auto ( put 50,000+ rounds through that gun over 15 years as a kid shooting it.. back when bricks were 10 bucks a pop ). I own currently anything from a Red Ryder, to an AW. In a REAL SHTF situation, I would no shit grab my 10/22. I can carry ( literally ) 1,000 rounds of ammo in my bag, no problem. It's quiet. I can accurately hit stuff with it at 100 yards. Sure, might not take them down on the first shot. But, when you're shot, you panic. You panic, your reason thought process goes out the window. I come in, take you out.

SHTF situations will obviously vary. If I knew I was only going to be out for a day or so, I'd take my AE. Urban? I'd go for my SCAR or AR, probably the SCAR.

>but you won't have time to choose

They are all within 10 feet of me right now. Each with 20+ loaded mags. This isn't even including the 10+ handguns in here also.

>>35046358
Id grab a .22 with a box or three and keep it inna car but im not shooting at anyone whos trying to kill me with anything less than a 9mm if i have a choice.

>>35046358
You would also be very surprised to know at range a .22 to the forearm wouldnt hurt as bad as you might think. It would definitely hurt but dont bank on it disabling the desert storm infantry vet who wants your water.

>>35046358
Theyre just gonna get you while your asleep like the wild indians did to the cavalry inna plains.