What's all the fuss about the AR? Everyone says it's

>>35012579
>light weight
>accurate
>MASSIVE aftermarket
>COD

Good aftermarket, reliable (Vietnam-era memes plz go), arguably the jack of all trades, easy to use, low recoil, cheap as hell to own and operate.

>>35012579

For a few years a while ago, ending in early 2000's, there was the famed ASSAULT WEAPON BAN which made certain features illegal. When it ended, there was a lot of news about how it would need to be renewed or we would all die. It wasn't renewed. Since then, there has been a lot of (mostly failed) political pressure to ban thse features anyway.

All this has done is keep them in the news, and every company that has anything to do with guns makes an AR15 model or makes parts for them. Even Ruger, now that Bill "Ten Rounder" Ruger is dead.

Prices have plummeted, popularity has exploded. Even people who don't like them bought one out of fear they someday wouldn't be able to.

>>35012625
>Vietnam-era memes
What's funny is that for the majority of the US involvement in Vietnam the M16 was a perfectly reliable combat rifle. The shitty teething issues were relegated to the opening years. Once the XM16E1 was a thing everything had essentially been ironed out, and the M16A1 sealed it.

>>35012603
>>35012625
>light weight
It's not actually that much lighter than other rifles. A stock Colt AR15 is heavier than a stock Winchester featherweight Model 70 in 308.
>accurate
No more so than most other rifles out there.
>aftermarket
If you need aftermarket accessories, then that's a tacit admission that is wasn't very good from the factory.
>recoil
More a function of the cartridge than the rifle.
>>35012644
Sounds like forbidden fruit rather than a genuinely good rifle.

>>35012625
This plus it has a proven track record in military environments and countries like New Zealand are dropping their rifles for AR15s.

>>35012669
this is some severe autism from someone who owns little to no guns

I get secondhand embarrassment reading posts like this

File: NotGoodEnough.png (46KB, 453x485px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 453x485px

>>35012669

File: where's your argument.jpg (260KB, 736x916px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 736x916px

>>35012705

File: really kid.jpg (74KB, 550x550px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 550x550px

>>35012669

File: FFFFFFFF.jpg (119KB, 529x529px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 529x529px

>>35012669
Post your piece, with proof.

Otherwise, GTFO, dumbass.

>>35012579
soft armor piercing even with varmint load .223

>>35012769
5.56x45mm FMJ punches through steel armor

>>35012579
>le shits where it eats meme
While it is a direct impingement firearm, the gas is ejected through the side of the bolt whereas most/all other DI firearms hit the bolt face.

The only time my AR gets reslly dirty is when suppressed and using shitty ammo. My AK gets as dirty with similar ammunition whilst suppressed as well, all the carbon goes through the piston/gas tube.

File: not.png (67KB, 500x365px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 500x365px

>>35012721
>>35012743
>>35012759

>>35012826
T. Noguns

>>35012669
>It's not actually that much lighter than other rifles. A stock Colt AR15 is heavier than a stock Winchester featherweight Model 70 in 308.
No shit a semi-auto is heavier than a bolt action. It's still lighter than similar rifles like AKs and SIG 556s.
>No more so than most other rifles out there.
Getting 1.5 MOA is pretty good
>If you need aftermarket accessories, then that's a tacit admission that is wasn't very good from the factory.
What exactly is the problem here? Customization means you can tailor the rifle to specific roles and needs. There isn't a one size fit all rifle for everyone.
>More a function of the cartridge than the rifle.
Yes the cartridge has light recoil but the way the gas system pushes the recoil straight back which does help

>>35012826

ur mum

The AR is a good all-rounder; it'll do a little bit of everything well. Is it as light as an AR-7? No. Is it as accurate as a T3x? No. Is it as powerful as a FAL? No. But it's at least acceptable at pretty much everything, and is damn good at the things it was designed for. It's right up there with the Mossberg 500 in the "if I could only have one gun..." category. And, these days, it's startlingly cheap.

File: not an argument.jpg (69KB, 598x792px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 598x792px

>>35012850
>>35012862

File: baba kolsa.jpg (35KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 480x480px

>>35012826

File: son-this-is-bait.png (57KB, 625x656px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 625x656px

>>35012826
Get fucked,retard.
Nobody cares what your dumb-ass thinks.

>>35012579
Why do people bitch about DI but not blowback? All my blowback guns are dirty as fuck if I shoot them a lot between cleanings.

>>35012908
>>35012903
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K--kQAmbV1w

File: knocks you out.gif (1MB, 500x278px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 500x278px

>>35012943

File: LhFKSxu.png (547KB, 635x640px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 635x640px

not sure why you guys fall for this shit every time

>>35012954
>>35012961
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVDSuQA-yDw

File: 1449872152634.jpg (94KB, 500x556px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 500x556px

>nert ern erngyermernt

>>35012857
>Getting 1.5 MOA is pretty good
Pretty mediocre actually. Several brands guarantee 1 MOA at a minimum.
>>35012857
>What exactly is the problem here? Customization means you can tailor the rifle to specific roles and needs. There isn't a one size fit all rifle for everyone.
What specific needs do you have other than maybe length of pull if you are a small person? You're not a special snowflake when it comes to shooting.
>>35012857
>Yes the cartridge has light recoil but the way the gas system pushes the recoil straight back which does help
It's more a function of drop at the heel than action.

>>35012669
>says all this about AR's
>probably is a Glock fag
Oh the irony

File: stefan.png (429KB, 399x614px) Image search: [Google]

429KB, 399x614px

>>35013081
>>35013107

>>35013107
Thanks m8

File: IMG_3227.jpg (394KB, 888x1242px) Image search: [Google]

394KB, 888x1242px

>>35013125
I like you

>>35013121
>>35012902
>>35012826
>>35012739
Half of these statements would warrant a response if you knew jack shit about guns. That's the beauty of language. You can say things a myriad of ways. Just because you're ignorant and use your ebin may may to deflect doesn't make you any more clever than that idiot Callum

>>35013176
#1

>>35013176
Woah, is she gonna show me those wound vectors? Sweet.
I'm more into #2 but #3 is breddy gud too.

>>35012579
YOU made the assertion, burden of proof is on YOU. Name an intermediate cartridge rifle with the same features or better for only $480. I'll listen.

>>35012625
>arguably the jack of all trades
*breathes in*
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAH

>>35012811
I have shot 700 rounds of WWB and Tula in one day, without cleaning or lubricating my ar15. Anderson lower, PSA middle level upper, and a PSA bolt carrier/charging handle. If you need more than 700 rounds in one sitting, fuck any rifle, get a LMG

>>35013250
Not an argument.
It can defend and it can take small and medium sized game.

>>35012579
>>35012669
Have either of you shot an AR15? Shooting at 100yards with an AR15 and a red dot is pretty much effortless. It's a pretty accurate lightweight gun with almost no recoil. And now they're cheap ass fuck. Gee I wonder why theyre popular.

>>35013265
SBR ARs are not effective for 200+ meter engagements

18"+ barrel ARs are not viable for room clearing (what's the point if you can't even fit your rifle inside a fucking door)

and 16/14.5" ARs are a shitty compromise between these two

File: 011.jpg (1MB, 1100x1600px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1100x1600px

>>35013305

>>35013300
That's wrong.

>>35013322
what's your AR's barrel length?

>>35013300
You can effectively room clear with 20 inch ars as has been done in many wars. It's not ideal but it still fucking works

>>35013184
Still not an argument. You still haven't explained what's so great about the AR compared to any other rifle. Many of the criteria used to evaluate a rifle are subjective. By those that can be measured objectively, such as weight and accuracy, the AR is not known to perform impressively.
>>35013231
Who said it has to be in an intermediate cartridge? I'm just talking about general purpose rifles. And where did you get the figure of $480? I know there is a plethora of AR brands and knockoffs out there, but I'm just using Colt as an example since they own the right to the name, and their MSRP is 1099.
>>35013265
.223 Rem does too much meat damage for rabbit sized game, and it lacks the sectional density for deer sized game. It's more of a niche cartridge for getting rid of coyotes and foxes without concern for the meat/fur.
>>35013277
I have, actually. It wasn't a bad rifle, but it wasn't exceptional in any way.

>>35013357
Can you name a cheaper semi auto with a decent self defense cartridge

>>35013334
a fully collapsed stock 16" barrel AR is 32.5 inches, that's 82 cm, which almost as wide as a fucking door

you cannot effectively slice the pie with that.

The real reason for its popularity is prior service members.
When you sleep with one for a couple years and you can field strip it and reassemble blindfolded in 90 seconds- it makes sense to get the civilian version later.
Its just beyond comfortable.
Sure there better weapons.
There's lighter weapons.
There's more accurate weapons.
There's more reliable weapons .
But there's not a more common weapon.
When the shtf, there will be military convoys loaded with 5.56.
I can pull 7 full mags from the dead paratrooper stuck in a tree.
300blk or 30/30 or .243 will be relegated to being used as clubs because you can't find ammo.
AR's are legos. All the parts fit together. If I'm not happy with some aspect of the one I bought, I can easily swap a new part from dozens of manufacturers.
If something fails, spare components will be easily available.
I guarantee I'll find a new firing pin after a major event for an AR before my neighbor finds one for his 30.06 Remington.

>>35013035
>Pretty mediocre actually. Several brands guarantee 1 MOA at a minimum.
When it comes to competing with other semi-autos with intermediate yeah it's pretty good.
>What specific needs do you have other than maybe length of pull if you are a small person?
Do you want a long range shooter? There are bipods and optics for the AR15. Do you like finger grooves on your grip? You can get one. Do you like no finger grooves on the grip? You can get one. Do you want a home defense rifle? There are barrel lengths and appropriate hand guards you can buy. Sounds like you are solipsistic as fuck if you can't think of things other people would need.
>You're not a special snowflake when it comes to shooting
Neither are you.
>It's more a function of drop at the heel than action.
It's still an inherent part of the design. Also explain to me how DI isn't part of the AR15s action

>>35012603
>>light weight
>>accurate
wrong

>>35013364
You don't have to "slice the pie" in urban ops, that's slow and beta. Speed, aggression and violence of action are necessary for urban ops.

>>35013360
Cheaper is hard to define for a rifle that is made in hundreds of configurations by dozens of brands. Whose AR are we talking about? Colt's? Ruger's? Remington's? Smith and Wesson's? Wilson Combat's?
>>35013368
A fair point.
>>35013399
>Also explain to me how DI isn't part of the AR15s action
I never said that it wasn't.
>>35013399
>Neither are you.
And? Your point is?

>>35013421
Dr. Disrespect is dat u?

>>35013357
Keep moving the goalpost. Go ahead. I said I'd listen and you refuse to name anything. S&W M&P sport 2 is $480 and a great AR-15. Using Colt as a standard and their MSRP or anyone's MSRP is laughable. I'm starting to think you're either mentally retarded or just a disrespectful child. Nice thread bro.

>>35013457
I don't know who that is. I'm just speaking from my experience of using 20in ARs in urban ops

>>35013503
Popular twitch streamer whose motto is violence, speed, momentum. Just a bad joke I guess.

>>35013357
>weight

The AR is one of the lightest autoloading centerfire service rifles (The M14, AK-47, FAL, and G3 are all heavier), and it is a more durable weapon than some of its main competitors in its weight class (The AK-74 and G36 come to mind).

>accuracy

Even a rack grade $400 AR is 2 MOA at minimum if it isn't defective, and that same rack grade AR can easily be made sub-MOA by changing the handguard and putting a better barrel on. Most of the rifles mentioned in the previous point (M14, AK-47, FAL, G3, and AK-74) are typically 2 MOA at BEST, and none of them, except maybe a heavily modded G3, are capable of reaching sub-MOA accuracy. The G36 has good mechanical accuracy, but poor practical accuracy.

Since you think that the AR does not perform impressively with respect to weight and accuracy, I am interested in hearing what you think a better autoloading centerfire service rifle is.

>>35013441
>I never said that it wasn't
So then you acknowledge that the AR has a function to mitigate recoil? That means we are done here
>And? Your point is?
You are obviously projecting your own personal expectations onto the rifle and thinking that is an objective assessment. It's particularly telling that you can't see why customization and a large aftermarket are good things.

>>35012669
>hurr gun bad ef ppl sell parts
You have to be 18 to post here

>>35013470
>Keep moving the goalpost. Go ahead
I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm just rejecting the goalposts you arbitrarily set.
>>35013470
>S&W M&P sport 2 is $480 and a great AR-15.
The MSRP from the website is 739. I know MSRP is usually higher than retail, which is higher than what you'll get online, but 480 sounds pretty low. I would assume they're unusually low because they're overstock because a Republican won the recent election.
>>35013470
>Using Colt as a standard and their MSRP or anyone's MSRP is laughable
I had to pick one brand out of dozens, so I just used Colt because they own the rights to the name. If you don't like using MSRP as a benchmark, name a better benchmark.
>>35013543
>service rifles
We're not talking about service rifles. We're talking about civilian rifles.
>>35013549
>So then you acknowledge that the AR has a function to mitigate recoil?
Semi automatic actions do mitigate recoil, but I don't know of any reason to belive the AR would be better at it than some other action, not that you really need to mitigate recoil in a 223 Rem.
>>35013549
>You are obviously projecting your own personal expectations onto the rifle and thinking that is an objective assessment
What personal expectations? Be specific.
>>35013549
>It's particularly telling that you can't see why customization and a large aftermarket are good things.
I think customization is mostly a waste of time and money. If you can't make a stock gun work for you, then it's not a good design. The only exception I will make to that is triggers, nearly every gun on the market today has a trigger that is too heavy for my liking, and I know experienced shooters who likewise prefer the light break of a Timney or Jewell.
>>35013562
Not an argument.

>>35013613
>If you don't like using MSRP as a benchmark, name a better benchmark.

How about actual steet prices? Using a price indexer like .deals tells you what the real world prices of a weapon are.

>We're not talking about service rifles. We're talking about civilian rifles.

Okay. Name a non-bespoke autoloading centerfire rifle you know of that is lighter and has better accuracy than an AR. Include a link to the best street price you can find for it if you want.

None of those anons but God I love it when people post 'not an argument'. It's like the new 'u mad?'. A baseless statement with the assumption that people even want to argue, or that your opinions have any merit to them in the first place.

>say some opinions
>'youre retarded'
>not an argument
do you get it?

>>35013683
He won't because he can't.

Coming into this thread I could already tell this guy had formulated his opinion right off the bat.

Wasting your time trying to convince someone that pretends to not have their mind made up.

>>35012874
how far can a t3x shoot accurately to?

>>35013329
16

>>35013613
>Semi automatic actions do mitigate recoil, but I don't know of any reason to belive the AR would be better at it than some other action,
The gas tube keeps the recoil in line with the bore which makes for a softer shooter.
>not that you really need to mitigate recoil in a 223 Rem.
"Need". You're starting to sound like an anti-gun and a solipsist. You don't know what other people need. For example, light recoil can make a difference for people doing three gun or using a rifle for self defense.
>What personal expectations? Be specific.
You just posted your personal expectations below. You don't think customization is a good thing for a rifle which is not the case for many people.
On a side note, you seem to think all AR15s are off the shelf when you can build one cheaper than off the shelf with whatever you want. Not to mention all the "OEM ARs" that manufacturers sell these days.
>>35013683
>Okay. Name a non-bespoke autoloading centerfire rifle you know of that is lighter and has better accuracy than an AR. Include a link to the best street price you can find for it if you want.
Fucking this.

>>35013796
what is your definition of 'aurractely'. People have hit coyotes at 900yards with them. And I'm sure the same has been said about ARs.

Almost every firearm is going to be more accurate than the shooter.

>>35013814
could it be considered a precision rifle? does it shoot more accurately than an AR at long distances? 600+

>>35012579
You don't want an answer, you want your opinion validated like an utter faggot.

>>35013823
I dont....
I just told you
>Almost every firearm is going to be more accurate than the shooter.

Do you have any experience with precision shooting? Are you shooting from a rest? Standing? Are you taking more than one shot?

These are not simple questions. An AR will also shoot 600+yards.

I cannot say whether one is more accurate than the other but purely by lack of moving parts the tikka is; probably.

>>35012579
>Held one in the gun shop the other day
>The fucking upper receiver wobbled on the lower
>Significantly, to the point there was a noticable gap where debris could get into the action
>"Sealed system"

I'm so glad I never feel for the AR meme.

>>35012669
you're retarded. get off /k/ and plz stop posting here

>>35013683
>How about actual steet prices?
Those vary widely from place to place, and are therefore not a usable benchmark.
>>35013683
>Okay. Name a non-bespoke autoloading centerfire rifle you know of that is lighter and has better accuracy than an AR. Include a link to the best street price you can find for it if you want.
Why does it have to be autoloading?
>>35013726
>A baseless statement with the assumption that people even want to argue,
If people don't want to argue, then they shouldn't be in this thread in the first place. Posting insults at someone you disagree with is no better than spamming.
>or that your opinions have any merit to them in the first place.
The merit of an opinion is determined by the arguments supporting or refuting it, not the approval or disapproval of anonymous posters on an anime forum.
>>35013810
>The gas tube keeps the recoil in line with the bore which makes for a softer shooter.
The direction of recoil is determined by the direction of the moving object which causes it. The moving object which causes recoil is the bullet/gas leaving the barrel. The gas tube has no effect on the direction of gas/bullet leaving the barrel.
>>35013810
>"Need". You're starting to sound like an anti-gun and a solipsist. You don't know what other people need. For example, light recoil can make a difference for people doing three gun or using a rifle for self defense.
It's 223. The recoil is already very light. Also, I never said anything should be illegal, so your insinuation than I am "anti-gun" is baseless.
>>35013810
>You don't think customization is a good thing for a rifle
You're right. I don't think aftermarket customization is a good thing for a rifle. It's mostly just an excuse for owners to tinker with their weapons, which is not a bad thing in itself, but not something a rifle should be designed for.
>>35013859
>>35013982
Not an argument.

>>35014296
>Why does it have to be autoloading?
Because autoloaders have been the standard for decades.
>The moving object which causes recoil is the bullet/gas leaving the barrel.
t. can't into physics enough to understand how less moving mass moving only rearward is a good thing
>I don't think aftermarket customization is a good thing for a rifle.
What the fuck.
>not something a rifle should be designed for
It wasn't. The aftermarket is a side effect of being a proper design that allows easy replacement of ANY part should they break.

>>35014296
>Those vary widely from place to place, and are therefore not a usable benchmark.

An indexer like .deals tells you what the actual prices being charged by an online retailer in the United States are as of this very moment. They do not "vary widely from place to place" unless you live in Hawaii or Alaska and potentially have to deal with extra shipping charges. It is actually the best possible benchmark for determining the real world price of a firearm.

>Why does it have to be autoloading?

Are you unable to name one? I will justify my reasons for asking that you name a non-bespoke autoloading centerfire rifle that is lighter and has better accuracy when you actually do so.

It's simply the best semi automatic rifle you can buy for the money in the US

If you believe there is better, I suggest you post it and state your reason why

Otherwise you got no argument my man.

>>35014420
>Because autoloaders have been the standard for decades.
What standard? Says who?
>>35014420
>t. can't into physics enough to understand how less moving mass moving only rearward is a good thing
If more mass is moving rearward, then physics would say that would pull the gun forward. Equal and OPPOSITE reaction.
>>35014420
>What the fuck.
Your incredulity is not an argument.
>>35014420
>It wasn't. The aftermarket is a side effect of being a proper design that allows easy replacement of ANY part should they break.
Fair enough, but still should not be a consideration when choosing a rifle.
>>35014442
>Are you unable to name one? I will justify my reasons for asking that you name a non-bespoke autoloading centerfire rifle that is lighter and has better accuracy when you actually do so.
That would be out of the order of things.
>>35014470
Why does it have to be semi automatic?

>>35014525
>What standard? Says who?
Self loading rifles are used for the majority of sport shooting in the US. They are also the hands down best option for self defense with a rifle, as well as being the most purchased type of rifle.
>If more mass is moving rearward, then physics would say that would pull the gun forward.
That's not a good thing.
>Your incredulity is not an argument.
That wasn't meant to be an argument. I'm dumbfounded how anyone could ever think more, cheaper options for parts is a bad thing.
>still should not be a consideration when choosing a rifle
Why not? If you consider that we are in a time where basically every well made autoloading rifle is basically the same performance wise, why would you not take into account price, weight and aftermarket?

>>35014578
>Self loading rifles are used for the majority of sport shooting in the US.
Are they? Says who?
>>35014578
>That's not a good thing.
Don't move the goalposts. You said a little while ago that the AR's action would mitigate recoil. If anything, direction impingement would have more recoil.
>>35014578
>That wasn't meant to be an argument. I'm dumbfounded how anyone could ever think more, cheaper options for parts is a bad thing.
I never said it was a bad thing. It's just not a necessary thing. I have a rifle that has all its original parts except for an aftermarket trigger. It has been my constant companion since I bought it. It was so well designed that it never needed replacement parts.
>>35014578
>Why not? If you consider that we are in a time where basically every well made autoloading rifle is basically the same performance wise, why would you not take into account price, weight and aftermarket?
Price and weight are valid considerations. Aftermarket accessories are just Barbie for adults.

>>35013329
I've got a 12.5, I'd not feel like I didn't have enough gun until 300+, but I've also got a case of 64 grain TBBC as my "Isis paratrooper invasion stash", so it's not like I'm limiting myself to just 55 grain fmj.

>>35013250
Have you ever heard the actual saying?

>Jack of all trades, master of none.

You don't want an answer, you want your opinion validated like an utter faggot. [2]

>>35012669
>More a function of the cartridge than the rifle.
No it isn't it's a result of the buffer tube system and straight blowback design.

>>35014688
>Are they? Says who?
See any major sport shooting even.
>Don't move the goalposts. You said a little while ago that the AR's action would mitigate recoil. If anything, direction impingement would have more recoil.
That wasn't me. More mass slamming forward will disrupt your sight picture more.
>I never said it was a bad thing.
>>I don't think aftermarket customization is a good thing for a rifle.
>Aftermarket accessories are just Barbie for adults.
But how is it not a plus? Parts are still cheaper and more plentiful because of it.

>>35014792
Still not an argument.
>>35014809
Friend, you can't believe everything advertisers tell you. No action can change physics. The 223 Rem has a light bullet and a light powder charge. Less mass means less momentum. Conservation of momentum means less recoil momentum.
>>35014826
>See any major sport shooting even.
I have friends who shoot competitively with bolt actions. Semi-autos do not have a monopoly on sport shooting by any means.
>>35014826
>That wasn't me. More mass slamming forward will disrupt your sight picture more.
Nobody who shoots piston rifles can even notice the action of the piston inside. They just feel the recoil of the shot itself.
>>35014826
>But how is it not a plus? Parts are still cheaper and more plentiful because of it.
Why are you so fixated on the thought of having to buy spare parts?

>>35013911
>I held an AR once
>Watch me draw on that experience to be a fucking idiot on the internet

>>35013121
this guy hasn't actually made an argument himself

>>35014881
lmao this guy sounds like a fudd. Are ya mad that we aren't using granddads scattergun, pappy?

>>35013364
what kind of narrow ass doors do you have

File: barclay3.jpg (95KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 1440x1080px

>>35012669
this is bait... right?

>>35014906
Not an argument.
>>35015037
Sure I have. A have made a connected series of statements intended to prove the proposition that the AR15--while not a bad rifle by any means--is not exceptionally good, certainly not enough so to justify the mania both for and against them.
>>35015054
No, I'm not mad at anyone for what rifle they own.
>>35015088
No, it isn't.

>>35014525
>It's simply the best semi automatic rifle you can buy for the money in the US
>Why does it have to be semi automatic?
because this isn't 1895 anymore, people want semi-autos

you ask why it's popular and then you question what people want. stop being so purposefully obtuse.

File: non argument.jpg (28KB, 567x565px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 567x565px

>>35015108
Some people want semi auto, but I see no reason to insist on it. There's nothing wrong with a good bolt or lever.
>It's the current year
See picture.

>>35015156
Are you seriously so disconnected that you don't realize that semi auto is vastly more popular than bolt or levers? Holy fuck. What a goddamned troll.

>>35015156
>WHY DON'T PEOPLE EXCLUSIVELY WANT BOLT OR LEVER ACTIONS LIKE MEEEEEE??

we're reaching autism levels that shouldn't even be possible

>>35015156
You have yet to name a semi auto center fire rifle in an intermediate calibre that is lighter, cheaper, and more accurate than an AR. If you cannot, you have to concede that it does in fact excel in that field: delivering decently accurate semi automatic fire in a lightweight, durable package

Also fuck you for drawing me into this thread, I took the bait. And no, that's not an argument, I'm just saying that you sound like a colossal faggot

File: zdjecie.php.jpg (75KB, 500x300px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 500x300px

>>35015156
>Using Molyneux to support your stupid bullshit opinion.
Get lynched you idiot.

>>35012579
It's an excellent varmint rifle in the right configuration.
It's even a decent DMR at 700m with heavier bullets.

Just because you use it to magdump at your shitty 25 yard range doesn't mean it can't outshoot you.

>>35015156
Lever actions are an obsolete design. They do not do anything better than either bolt actions or semi-autos.

The only meaningful advantage that a bolt action design has over a modern semi-auto of quality manufacture is that they can handle extremely supercharged calibers like .338 Lapua that a semi-auto cannot. In exchange for this, they are far less capable than an semi-auto in every real world situation that is not a safari or extreme long distance precision shooting.

>but muh accuracy

A properly made semi-automatic rifle like the M110 is as accurate as the best bolt actions.

>>35015156
>There's nothing wrong with a good bolt or lever.
Not an argument
>See picture.
Not an argument

>Post reasons why other people like AR15s
>"I don't like those reasons!"
That's not an argument

>>35013406
maybe if you had some muscle on those bones you wouldnt shake from picking anything over a few pounds up. That would fix the weight and accuracy that only you seem to be having.

>>35015386
>They do not do anything better than either bolt actions or semi-autos.
Levers are faster than bolts. That's a fact.

>>35015176
I realize it's popular, but it's not a must have.
>>35015266
Strawman. I never said manual actions should be preferred to the exclusion of autos. I merely said that bolts and levers were not out of the question.
>>35015341
Mini 14 is commensurate in price, weight, and accuracy, and I'm no shill for the Mini 14.
>>35015361
What's wrong with Molyneux?
>>35015373
>with heavier bullets
Even fairly heavy .224 inch bullets have mediocre sectional density.
>>35015386
>Lever actions are an obsolete design. They do not do anything better than either bolt actions or semi-autos.
Non sequitur. Levers are quite serviceable, irrespective of paper ballistics.
>>35015386
>The only meaningful advantage that a bolt action design has over a modern semi-auto of quality manufacture
Bolts can save weight and cost when using standard length cartridges.
>>35015835
It's not an argument by itself, but it is part of the argument that semi automatic fire isn't absolutely necessary.
>>35016016
I asked for reasons why the AR is objectively good, not preferences. "I prefer this gun" is literally muh feels.
>>35016138
Not really.

File: everythingonit.jpg (1MB, 3264x1592px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3264x1592px

Anyone want to post AR's with me?

File: jam.jpg (559KB, 935x709px) Image search: [Google]

559KB, 935x709px

ARs are ONLY popular because they are the rifle the US military uses.

If it was some French rifle from the 60's or something, it would forever be an obscure unpopular rifle that nobody but a serious collector would ever bother with.
There's really nothing great or amazing about the rifle itself that would give it any additional popularity.

>>35012579
Well we have lots of varmits here. They will steal your car radio and vcr if you take your eyes off them for a minute

>>35013406
>not lightweight
holy shit man you are such a fucking pussy dude

>>35013536
You're just misunderstanding where he comes up with the things he says. These are terms used to describe room clearing. You'll also see these streamers talk about defilades. Do some research online about these terms and see where they come from. You'll learn things your friends probably don't know.

File: 1488063401608.gif (993KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

993KB, 250x250px

>>35012579
It's the only cheap rifle to elevate to a .308 and actually perform with it or the only rifle that has been improved the most historically, besides the Polish AK. If you are familiar with the rifle then it is surprisingly simple to handle despite all the misconceptions of true and downright false disadvantages of the rifle's features.

>Takes a soldier 1 month to train.
Must be the stupidest man alive for that to happen.

File: 1500997024333.jpg (23KB, 283x350px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 283x350px

ITT:

>Why do people like ARs?

>Because they're the best and cheapest semi auto intermediate cartridge guns out there

>But what about guns that aren't semi auto or intermediate cartridge?

File: 1504041421623.png (68KB, 781x236px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 781x236px

>>35012579

File: IMG_20170829_123327.jpg (18KB, 252x252px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 252x252px

>>35012669

>>35016590
This. The military has provided free advertising for the gun industry.
>>35017362
Yes. And? You still haven't said why a rifle has to be semi auto and in an intermediate cartridge.

File: 1500944272323.jpg (37KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 600x600px

>35013613
You dont deserve to get an argument from me, either youre a faggot or b8. Enjoy the (You)s

>>35014688

>Aftermarket accessories are just Barbie for adults

not an argument :^)

>>35013421
AHAHAH get a load of this guy

if somebody has his muzzle pointed at the door YOU WILL get shot A LOT if you try to practice your "haha high speed low drag i'm such a tacticool operator xD who cares about checkign corners" shit

File: IMG_0148.jpg (45KB, 351x604px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 351x604px

>>35012603
>>COD

File: IMG_0153.jpg (52KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 1024x576px

>>35012669
>mfw reading this dumb ass fucking shit on his keyboard

>>35012579
lol stand in front of my 556 and let's see you bleed out, would that make you a varmint?

>>35012579
>throwing up on itself
The bolt-carrier is the piston you retard, it vents out the ejection port.

>>35012669
I'm taking the bait.

>It's not actually that much lighter than other rifles. A stock Colt AR15 is heavier than a stock Winchester featherweight Model 70 in 308.
There's a lot of variance in the weight of AR15s, you can build them light if you want to, people think quad-rails are mandatory but they really aren't.

>accurate
>No more so than most other rifles out there.
Yes, actually, if you understood firearms, mechanics and physics, you'd see what makes for it's great inherent accuracy

>If you need aftermarket accessories, then that's a tacit admission that is wasn't very good from the factory.
Aftermarket is for personal taste, you can do perfectly fine with an out of the box old Colt SP1.

>More a function of the cartridge than the rifle.
Wrong, it's both, again you fail to understand the physics and mechanics firearms.

>>35016376
>sectional density
Kill yourself.

>>35016590
>stupidly expensive
Hello Mr. Noguns.

>>35012603
>COD
I fucking wish. ARs get no fucking love from video games unless it's some Vietnam MUH M16 bullshit

>>35013911
Mine closes very tight and has no wobble. Not all ARs are of the same quality just like every other gun.

>>35013364
You can absolutely slice the pie with a 20" barrel. Stay out of the doorway you numpty. Its not a good place to be.

>>35016376
>Mini 14 is commensurate in price, weight, and accuracy
It costs more than several perfectly solid AR offerings, weigh nearly as much as a full-length pencil barrel build, and isn't as accurate, all while also not being as reliable and with less aftermarket. Do you have any fucking idea what you're talking about

File: IMG_1433.png (35KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 625x626px

>>35012669
You're fucking retarded

>>35022330
You can't fully pie the door's corners, not even with a 14.5"

that's why SBRs & SMGs were created.

why do you think most SWAT teams use the MP5?

File: 1421621422156.gif (818KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

818KB, 500x281px

>>35012669

>>35013441
>Cheaper is hard to define for a rifle that is made in hundreds of configurations by dozens of brands.
Good job dude, you just explained why it's so popular.

>>350231
You can't usually pie the extreme corners anyway, regardless of the length of your weapon.

The only way to see those corners is to put yourself inside the doorway and peak round. If that is your tactic then i guess an MP5 would be better.

>>35023293
it's why i think machine pistols and extremely small SMGs (hell maybe even handguns too) are the greatest in close quarters combat, it helps you pie corners as much as possible

most people don't have the reaction speed of a potato, if someone sits in the far corner of the room and has his barrel pointed down the door, he'd mag dump as soon as he sees someone fitting his gun inside a door (and fitting your gun inside a door is something that necessarily happens if your gun is too long) and that results in you being dead

in other words
having medium firepower and being able to use it to it's full extent is better than having lots of firepower and not being able to fully utilize it

>>35013406
>not lightweight
Maybe a handgun is more up your alley then. It can even fit in your purse when your arms get tired.

>>35012625
>jack of all trades
What is Kalashnikov

>>35023340
Not an argument

>>35017545
Not an argument

>>35012644
>even people who dont like them bought them for fear of not being able to have them one day
Right fucking here for you. I HATE ARs and I still bought one just in case. I never use it, would rather use my AKs for anything. Maybe one day it'll be handy but who knows.

>>35023454
Not an argument

>>35023471
delicious bait

File: BZeDeq1IUAAZ2Lk (1).jpg (17KB, 649x463px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 649x463px

>>35013441
>>35013357
>>35013035
>>35012669
The sheer lack of common sense, self awareness, and basic knowledge you have exhibited in these few posts is nothing short of astounding. I want to think it's just trolling, but the only person who could create so through an example of utter ignorance and inconsistency is someone who genuinely thinks they are have an informed view on a subject while actually possessing anything but.

File: b9.jpg (22KB, 651x575px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 651x575px

>guaranteed replies

>>35012579
You build one because you can always get parts and ammo. In a SHTF situation, you can nab more parts and ammo off dead soldiers and other AR owners.

Frankly, I find the overall design appalling.
> inb4 bait
Is just an opinion, I'm still building one anyway.

File: 1500845867665.jpg (29KB, 497x604px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 497x604px

>>35013421
>>35013503
You're a fucking retard

>>35019176
Replied to the wrong post?

>>35012579
Bans and shitty import laws make it near impossible/ very expensive to buy rifles by other countries leaving the American manufacturers without any competition and with an immense market.

>>35023605
this, ar-15s would be a load less popular if people had the ability to buy imports at reasonable prices.

>>35023605
Not to mention the myraid of patents that could be infringed upon by leaving the AR design space. Just because you can't buy some foreign army gear, doesn't mean the mfgrs. didn't file every conceivable patent here covering their tech.

Regulatory capture is a bitch.

>>35023340
Might be best to stay out of the doorway altogether. Clear as much as you can from the outside, then just commit to entering the room and immediately drive to those uncleared corners. Especially in a centre fed room, where some cunt will shoot you from the corner you have your back to.

>>35023471
Fuck off cunt your right but maybe this is more of a discussion not an argument

>>35023493
Shitposting "not an argument" is even less of one

>>35023641
>Clear as much as you can from the outside, then just commit to entering the room and immediately drive to those uncleared corners


Depends on the layout of the room unknowns windows etc friendo

over penetration will get you killed gud

>>35023511
Not an argument

>>35023641
>Might be best to stay out of the doorway altogether. Clear as much as you can from the outside, then just commit to entering the room and immediately drive to those uncleared corners. Especially in a centre fed room, where some cunt will shoot you from the corner you have your back to.
there's still a big fat chance that you'll get shot if:
#1 whoever inside has his gun aimed down the door and ready to shoot
#2 room is really wide and no matter how hard you clear from the outside you still wouldn't see the guys inside if they are dug in the far corners of the room.

>>35023724
Yes, but there is nothing short of throwing a grenade in that will jelp if you are solo. This is why entry teams dump in as fast as possible and alternate corners.

>>35013306
Source?

>>35024879
unlike rifle & mags a grenade/flash isn't always available

>This is why entry teams dump in as fast as possible and alternate corners
Like i said, if you rush in a room like some kind of wannabe high speed low drag 2fast4u LARPerator this'll happen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQvDn9MEtNo
notice how the first SWAT member to get in gets his ass riddled with .308

>>35016569
Retro looks cool.

>>35025107
Welcome to room clearing. How would you have gone in? Slice the pie and see who decides to shoot faster, the guy who cant shoot hostages, or the guy who knows you're coming through that door? There are no good options but leveling the building.

>>35025295
pick the shortest gun available
get someone with you (optional but infinitely helpful)
slice the pie as effectively as possible
doubletap motherfuckers in the head (this one is tricky and relies on your superior reaction speed)

but if we're talking about hostages, then your only choice is to sit down and find a solution that does not involve your team kicking down doors , because just by kicking down the front door no matter how stealthy you can be the hostage takers WILL notice you before you reach their room and RIP in peace poor hostages

>>35025295
>Slice the pie and see who decides to shoot faster
isn't that like literally every CQB engagement ever?

File: 1502855218499.png (753KB, 1280x738px) Image search: [Google]

753KB, 1280x738px

>>35012669
>A stock Colt AR15 is heavier than a stock Winchester featherweight Model 70 in 308

>>35012579
it's popular because the military uses it and the 300lb larpers want to look devgru

same with the sig 320, no one gave a shit about it till the army picked it and everyone ran out and bought one

File: 04741454-05A2-4FCB-8339-B0CD7520AF40-11891-000009C24419AF4E.png (57KB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 320x180px

>>35015156
Real life isn't counter strike
bolt guns don't magically do more damage
>Firepower does correlate with volume of fire
>auto loaders allow you to keep your shooting grip/eyes on target

I feel ridiculous having to point this out

>>35016376
>mini 14
>accuracy

It's known for shooting itself out of alignment because of its draconian war time gas system
Gas yourself for imagining it's more accurate because it looks more "rifley"

>>35026090
>draconian war time gas system
do you know what draconian means?

File: 6cb.jpg (24KB, 489x629px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 489x629px

>>35012669

File: OpEVtAL.png (6KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 225x225px

>>35012669
What the hell am I reading?

>>35012625
>reliable
Are ya ready kids? Lets go through the list of things that make ARs malfunction! (but its totally not the gun's fault! Right?) Here we gooooo!
>Over gassed
>under gassed
>not put together just right
>shitty parts kit
>not from a factory
>wrong/cheap magazines
>wrong/cheap ammo
>getting virtually anything inside the gun (like a bee or something)
Despite this laundry list of things, people still defend the reliability of ARs to this day! Can you think of any other things to add to the list?

>>35026102
Do you know what a joke is?
Yes I know it should refer to laws tryhard

File: IMG_2286.jpg (43KB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 540x540px

>>35026153
>he doesn't watch forgotten weapons/inrange
Hey did you know everything on that list applies to every firearm ever?

>>35026153
You realize those all apply to literally any semiauto firearm in existence, right.

File: I just thing boomsticks are cool man whats so wrong about that.gif (240KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

240KB, 320x320px

>>35026153
really scraping the bottom of the barrel with your arguments now, aren't you OP

>>35026638
Not an argument

>>35026153
Not an argument

>>35026046
Not an argument

>>35025812
Not an argument

>>35026712
Not an argument

File: 1487896727913.png (387KB, 598x369px) Image search: [Google]

387KB, 598x369px

>>35025392
>doubletap motherfuckers in the head
Go back to playing Rainbow Six buddy.

>>35026852
Not an argument

>>35026852
jokes on you all you need is one headshot in that game

>>35026852
Not an argument

>>35012579
someone make one of these memeballs but for the AK, where it's like the mechanical concept is the equivalent of fingering yourself.
alternatively where it's the mechanical equivalent of fingering your mouth to throw up

shit I dont know man Im drunk

>>35025392
This. Kicking in doors should be an EXTREME scenario where there's something priceless that could be destroyed.

surround the house and call them on a speaker and tell them to come out. 2 minutes later start pumping the house with CS gas.


If you kick in my door I don't care what you yell, you're getting bullets through the wall at you.

>>35013911
>one example of usage of such, that may or may not have ever happened
>all ARs are bad

Hello 'tardo, let me introduce ya to the concept: fallacy of incomplete evidence. Otherwise known as... da da da, cherry picking.

>>35015100
>not an argument
Doesn't nullify his statement either. That was a cherry picking fallacy and he called it out as such.

Have a (You).

>>35012826
Saying not an argument doesn't make it not an argument. The one on the bottom called into question whether you have extended experience with the gun, such as owning it.

>>35027387
That's an argument.

>>35012579
OK we all have seen in this thread proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the AR-15 family of rifles is the God King of all time in the intermediate cartridge game.


So who makes the best ARs is now the question.

I'd say Diemanco aka Colt Canada makes a pretty fucking good service rifle

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as direct impingement, is in fact the Stoner gas system, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, true expanding gas system. The Stoner gas system is not an direct impingement system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning gas operated system made useful by the bolt carrier expansion chamber, bolt and gas rings comprising a full gas system as defined by CIP/SAAMI.
Many firearm users run a modified version of the Stoner gas system, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of the true expanding gas system which is widely used today is often called “direct impingement”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the true expanding gas system system, developed by Eugene Stoner. There really is a direct impingement, and other guns are using it, but it is just a part of the system those guns use.
The gas system: the part in the system that allocates the rifle's gas to the bolt carrier group. The gas system is an essential part of a firearm, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete firearm design. Direct impingement is normally used in combination with direct action on the gas key: the whole Stoner gas system is basically the expansion chamber with direct impingement added, or the true expanding gas system. All the so-called “direct impingement” firearms are really combinations of the true expanding gas system.

>>35028574
Spoilers: you do. Build your own, get exactly what you want on it.

>>35026852
theoretically it works.

>>35028584
i love you

>>35012669

Holy shit look at that reply count. I want in on this.

>lightweight..

Well you're wrong, this goes into the aftermarket/build your own area. You can make them as heavy or light as you like, down to nearly 3lbs with a 16 inch barrel in an automatic gun for less than a grand.

>accuracy

Again, as accurate as you're willing to pay, it's very accurate for an automatic. I have a nicer chrome lined barrel (chrome lined are the worse for accuracy but last a lot more rounds) in a 16 inch gun and I get MOA groups using fucking 20 cent a round Tula which is fucking great.

>aftermarket

You're a dumb funds who's never built or tailored a gun to his taste.

>recoil

Yes and no, automatic guns will normally have lighter recoil than manual action guns.

>>35012579

AR10 is 308 and can be had in other similar length cartridges, ar15 is 5.56 and can be had in other similar rounds. Converting them doesn't require a gunsmith. It's an all around good design for a lot of purposes, hunting and defense.

>>35023454
what is accuracy?

>>35028846
>>35028901
Not an argument

>>35029455

Lol. Saged troll

>>35012788
M193 out of a 20" barrel screams through AR500 like its nothing.

>>35025403
Yes, that was my point.No matter what you do if the guy inside knows youre coming the first guy is almost certainly dead no matterhow you go in, so aggression gives him the best chance of surviving.