>news >woman shoots abusive husband >several times >with

Because shot placement matters and so does shooting until the threat is no longer a threat.
Also adrenaline is one hell of a drug

>>35007889
It made the abusive husband leave. So it worked

is there anything i can do to make my 22 out of a rifle more powerful?

can i infuse them with hiv or cancer? can i make them small bombs that literally explode when they penetrate skin

>>35007974
get a bigger magazine.

>>35008124
cant i only got clips

>>35007889
what kind of ammo...was it filled with 22 shorts for killing mice or did It have CCI stingers or Velocitors?

>>35007889
where I live guns are controlled

I learnt through a friend who works at a hospital that someone was shot 36 times with a .22 and died before arrival

I saw a picture and it looked like someone shot them with no 4 buck

>>35007889
The only 22 I'd ever want to use to shoot someone is a full auto American 180. Maybe a full auto 10/22 with a reliable drum mag or something. Seriously, the round is pathetic. Have none of you just looked at it in comparison to anything else? It's a tiny bullet with a tiny amount of powder behind it.

>>35007974
Smear the rounds in shit, you'll infect everything you hit and can even send them into septic shock. As long as you don't mind breathing some of it in of course.

>>35008174
I imagine a .22 pistol in a full-auto would be more effective than any other handgun. Penetration is enough to hit organs and the recoil would be manageable enough to keep all your shots in the chest. A full-auto PMR-30 could put 30 holes in you in like 3 seconds.

>>35008317
22 mag is a bit better than 22lr at least. I would prefer something else but I definitely wouldn't feel under gunned with one like I would with 22lr.

>>35007889
>be woman
>get mad at husband
>shoot him dead in his sleep
>tell cops he was "abusive"
>get away with it because patriarchy

why do women have a legal license to kill?

>>35008360
Pussy pass? Women get away with a ton of shit men get thrown against the wall for. How it's always been.

>>35008360
what the fuck are you saying
women go for jail for that all the time

>>35008132
Get a bigger clipazine

>>35008360
Yeah, it's impossible that there has ever been a case of a husband abusing his wife in all of history. Everything you read is a lie, they're out to get you!

>>35008337
.22wmr has enough bite to not glance off the skull, so it's good enough for "in a pinch." Still not a good round of choice, but once you get it through the skull you have a dice roll for a possible one-shot-stop.

>>35007974
>can i make them small bombs that literally explode when they penetrate skin
Yep, but it's not going to be easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXaaybiRiYY

>>35008317
And a .44 mag can remove your heart in a single shot. Also, recoil isn't undcontrollable garbage like it is in vidya, you just pull down a little

>>35008164
>Implying news articles literally ever go that deep into detail.

>>35008604
Are you implying that every single time a woman kills her husband, its justified?
If a woman kills her husband for """"abuse"""" does his living will hold up?

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>>35008755
>Are you implying that every single time a woman kills her husband, its justified?
Are you dumb, my man? How do you manage to pull retarded shit like this out of your ass?

>>35008639
>shitting out fuddlore on 4chan

>>35007889
22 is better than nothing OP

>>35008174
>>35008317
>>35008337


Out of a pistol you're getting ~850fps with the right ammunition, you'd want short in length 40 grain fmj or LRN and you're still only looking at ~10 inches then subtract the 2-4 inches standard to account for sternum through gel but that's still not including ribs. 22 mag would work but rim fire = problems in automatic, 25 auto might, 32 auto would be swell.

Pic related is 60 grain out of a pistol, momentum doesn't account for the penetration lost during a tumble and with the longer 60 grain rounds you lose even more.

>>35008639

And real life isn't a dirty harry fantasy

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>>35009306

Forgot pic

>>35007889
He strolled off, didn't he?

>>35009306
>>35008639
Except it overpenetrates by being a .44 caliber bullet at over 1500ftlbs? and expands to ~.75" before you even consider the cavitation?

I didn't mean it would disintegrate it, and I certainly didn't mean it would "remove" as in surgically remove it.

It won't be functioning after a shot from a .44 magnum. It has the muzzle energy of a 5.56 round, but with twice the bullet diameter before expansion.

>>35009497
>>35008972

>>35009306
>>35008972
https://youtu.be/-iSs7dJpY5I?t=21
It works on poor baby deers, it'll work on you.

People don't die because you're poking holes in them, if you honestly think "30 22 rounds in 3 seconds" is scarier than 1 .44 magnum shot through the heart then you're retarded.

And I didn't say 30 rounds of .22lr through your body wasn't fucking terrifying, either, but it's not a death sentence.

>>35007889
The round isn't the problem, the woman is.

Chain only as strong as the weakest link and all that.

>>35009582
Gun only as strong as weakest bullet

>>35009593
Well, that's true for automatics. any failure to cycle will probably kill you realistically

ask Bobby Kennedy

>>35008360
It's basically the female compensation for being literally inferior to men in almost every other way imaginable. That and frilly dresses.

>>35009497
>>35009566

We're speaking practicality not exclusively damage. You have to make a hit to kill before penetration matters, I'd argue you'd kill more often with 30 rounds of 22 in 3 seconds over as many as you can get off with the 44 mag in the same amount of time on a moving target especially while being shot at. If your mag goes dry before they go down you might be screwed though.

>>35010067
You're screwed when they shoot you once. You don't get to spray bullets, then heal up after you kill them IRL.

>>35007974
i hear good things about cci segmented hollowpoint

>>35008317
That's why cops liked the aforementioned American 180. It gave them the option to kill a dangerous suspect with a minimal chance of over penetration or other collateral damage. I don't care who you are, 270-ish .22 short mag rounds delivered in a couple of seconds is going to put you right down.

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>>35008174

>>35007893
fpbp

Another good one is BTK

>Ties up woman and man in their house
>while tying up the man a fight breaks out
>shoots him point blank in the fucking head
>He collapses but gets back up when BTK begins strangling his wife
>another fight ensues, shoots the man 3 more times in the chest and makes his escape when the man keeps pummeling
>these are the only 2 known survivors of BTK
>In BTK's confession tapes he noted that he regretted not bringing his "magnum" (a .44 caliber Smith & Wesson model 29) that he usually brought on what he referred to as "hunts"

if i shoot you serveral times in your hand would you be able to walk away?

>>35010505
Man took four to the chest, two in the back , 4 in the buttocks, 1 in the leg

>>35010463
Oh it's this guy again.

>2k17
>actually posting OSS studies
ha-hahaha-ha.

>buh buh muh newspaper clippings
>muh sample size of 150
turn in your 9mms for .22s their just as good and way softer recoiling

>>35010503
Jesus... what a badass. I bet his wife fucked his brains out after that.

>>35007893
>shooting until the threat is no longer a threat.
If you need more than one shot, your shot placement or you caliber sucks.

>>35007889
Shoot yourself with this pathetic round then

>>35010558
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K--kQAmbV1w

You wouldn't shoot yourself with a CB cap, either.

>>35010552
I mean yea, who can't hit a moving thumb sized or quickly darting index card sized target 10/10 times under stress! that's what it takes for an almost guaranteed immediate stop

Or do you not realize how long bleeding takes to definitely incapacitate somebody?

>>35010552
>I have no idea how resialint the human body is, the post

Reminder that baboon martin had his heart blown out the back of his ribcage and was still sitting up and talking for nearly a minute

>>35010571
The only way to IMMEDIETLY stop a threat is to sever the brain stem, and that's about the size of a small lemon

>>35010067
>30 rounds of 22 in 3 seconds
>30 rounds in 3 seconds
>10 rounds per second
>600 rounds per minute
That's only possible with full auto, which is illegal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50N5lQoAFw

>>35010067
>as many as you can get off with the 44 mag in the same amount of time on a moving target especially while being shot at

Skip to 1:35 sceonds. 44 magnum is not impossilbe to shoot well. It just takes some getting used to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4FESGjiH3s

>>35010615
And btw, if you are taking that shot from the front, you AIM for the teeth. From the side you aim behind the ear and about an inch down. From the rear you AIM where the hairline starts

>>35010355
Yes you do. It's one of many reasons hospitals exist. Especially when a single gunshot wound generally has a less than 20% chance of being lethal. If you dont believe me look up the LA watch repairman who was shot in the neck in a robbery, killed the assailants, got stitched up and went to work the next day.

>>35010615
any part of the spinal cord north of the brachial plexus will do it, thats the thumb width(aprx) target. north of that is the "no response zone" which i've heard described as being about 3x5". Theres a little bit of lower brain transitional space between the two that's between the two in size iirc.

Either way a very difficult shot to make under pressure. Thoracic triangle/upper chest is much easier to hit reliably.

>>35010505
Yes. Your hand will be fucked but if you stop the bleeding you'll be fine if you get it cleaned and stitched.

>>35010571
>Or do you not realize how long bleeding takes to definitely incapacitate somebody?
Not that long if you hit him in the center of the chest.
>>35010603
Citation needed.
>>35010615
That's true, but a heart shot with a major caliber bullet causes pretty fast death.
>>35010634
>taking that shot from the front, you AIM for the teeth
I've heard the nose.

>>35010634
>>35010634
Brain stem is north of the foramen magnum. below that is upper spinal cord. shooting through the teeth will typically sever the spinal cord and not brainstem if it's at the same height as the gun and their head is not tilted up. dead either way but the academic difference is there.

Brain stem is more in line with the nose area.

>>35010690
>Not that long if you hit him in the center of the chest.
Unconsciousness from a severed ascending aorta can take ~4s not accounting for oxygen already in the brain.

>>35010733
>Unconsciousness from a severed ascending aorta can take ~4s not accounting for oxygen already in the brain.
Citation needed.

>>35010763
Dr. Ken Newgard IWBA journal 1992.

“A 70 kg male has a cardiac output of around 5.5 liters per minute. His blood volume is about 4200 cc. Assuming that his cardiac output can double under stress, his aortic blood flow can reach 11 Liters per minute. If this male had his thoracic aorta totally severed, it would take him 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his total blood volume. This is the minimum amount of time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. A marginally trained person can fire at a rate of two shots per second. In 4.6 seconds there could easily be 9 shots of return fire before the assailant’s activity is neutralized. Note this analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perusing the brain that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.”

>>35010640
>a single gunshot wound
With what?

Y'know what? I'm done talking to a noguns.

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>>35010617

I was going to call you a retard for not reading the reply chain but then I saw how many posts I first responded to. I should have been more clear that I was taking the anon's idea of a full auto 30 round 22 being a great self defense weapon if it was legal.

I've seen his videos before and he's a seasoned shooter but he's still barely on his second shot (even though he's aiming at a new target which you would have to portion your burst for) before the magazine would be dumped and they're also not moving or shooting back. A bad hit in the leg with a 44 mag would be awful but they can still shoot, more rounds in a small bullet pointed at center mass in the same amount of time would have a greater chance of stopping them.

>>35010355

I don't get what you're trying to say other than make sure you shoot first and in the vitals which ends the gun fight with both 44 mag or a 30 round dump of 22.

>>35010552

Troll but I can't help replying, people who genuinely speak like you are always the worst shots

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>>35010817
Handguns in general.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1997/02/24/knives-00006/
There are more sources cited in the post. This was literally the first result on the first page of google.

>>35010817

>with what?

A lot of handgun caliber things. Also you're speaking to a number of anons and I it's making a confusing read and reply process.

>>35010815
Fair enough.
>>35010852
>Troll but I can't help replying, people who genuinely speak like you are always the worst shots
Not an argument.

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>>35010925
>>35010817

Forgot image

>>35010942
It gives percentage of one shot stops. It doesn't give the time those one shot stops took. If a man bleeds out in 20 minutes after being shot once, that's a one shot stop.

Voltron weapons bird

>>35010911
Did you read your own source? it's literally a page about debunking that notion.

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>>35007889
This thread has convinced me to buy a LifeCard

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>>35010960

Yes, I'm trying to say you can't just rely on one shot of 44 magnum to do the job, especially instantly, every time

>>35011014
>seriously referencing marshall & sannow even if it's to argue against stopping power
gross

>>35011059

If x amount of real people were shot by a caliber and there was a y amount of people didn't have some type of stop effect it doesn't matter what sort of inconsistency in shot placement, angle, or distance the round was fired from, there were real life variables involved proving that "I'll just shoot him once in the chest with this 44 mag and he'll die right there" isn't a realistic assertion. You won't be able to hit vitals every time let alone score a hit and most would want more ammunition and faster follow up shots for this reason.

>>35011150
The problem with using real shootings is they're committed by real people who tend to have real preferences and differences. They simply don't account for all the variables involved enough to actually tell you which rounds are more lethal on a per round basis.

your average shooting doesn't exactly involve one dude shooting another dude exactly in the aorta one time and then seeing what happens.

Also marshall & sannow in particular were known for applying mathematical formulae in an attempt to account for this, from which their actual OSS numbers are derived(iirc). Taking the total amount of shots from all the shootings and dividing that by the number of total fatalities isn't exactly informative. Pretty sure their database has been questioned before too...

In general that "study" has lots of issues even when ignoring the validity of that general study type.

couple years ago a woman near me shot a home intruder 5 times in the head and neck with a .357.

intruder managed to walk out of the house, get in his car, and crash into a tree across the street. then survived long enough for the police and paramedics to get him to a hospital. where he continued to live.

>>35011284
>>35011284
some theoretical real world examples of how studies like that can be flawed:

>shootings involving .45/.40 users are more likely to have better training than 9mm users because the 9mm is more common with thugs while .45/.40 is more common with fudds/police. The increased training of the police and ease of shooting the 9mm may off set this effect to some degree.
>the "chest" is a pretty large area even when limited to the thoracic cavity. A shot clipping the lung(10m to bleed out) is treated the same as one to the aorta(.4s to bleed out)
>a shooting with two well placed 9mm rounds that results in death is treated the same as a shooting with 1 well placed and 1 poorly placed .44 round resulting in death.
>people are more likely to not need/seek medical treatment for smaller rounds like .22, shootings with fatalities are more likely to make the news/internet than ones without any.

>>35011284

Of course, Im aware of what it doesnt take into account, I don't take these raw numbers as the bible to judge all rounds by, I'm arguing a very simple point I'm sure you agree with me on: You can't expect that you'll hit vitals every time let alone hit the person, and if you don't, assuming these are real homicides, 44 mag may not have an instant stop effect.

I'm not saying 44 magnum isn't more deadly than any of the common automatic calibers or 22. It is however popular opinion that firing more small rounds (within reason) on target in the same amount of time help your odds for a reason

>>35011471
why yes that's true, the single point i was arguing is that you shouldn't use craptastic studies of dubious merit to support your point. can't be getting lazy just because you happen to be right, that'll just give idiots more room to wiggle around in.

Of course sometimes there is something to be said about speaking to people from within their own idiom when they won't accept anything else.

Frankly your opinion would probably stand better without being associated with such things to most people.

>>35011388
Bet it was a D/A only and she could barely keep the shit pointed while yanking the trigger. Idk why people keep advising these guns for women. They are strong enough to rack slides they just don't know how to correctly.

>>35011432
.40 is extremely popular with niggers.
>people are likely to not seek medical treatment for .22 wounds
Get a load of this dipshit.

>>35011575
If you think .40 was as popular with thugs in the 90s as it was with the police, or that .40 was more popular with crims than 9mm then lol.

>>35009306
>>35009325
You gotta set up a rifle for those Aguila SSS rounds, they keyhole real bad out of guns designed for lighter .22 bullets.

>>35008632
>not renting a shitty Chinese Makarov clone in .22 loaded with lead azide explosives when you're on the run in Chiba
Never gonna make it

>>35011596
>was
Find that word in my post

>>35011662
I was clearly and specifically speaking in reference to the marshall & sannow "study".

Guess when their data comes from, friendo?

>>35011686
>marshall & sannow
>study
>data
Choose one

>>35011764
Honestly a pretty succinct summary of what i had to say...

>>35011505

What do you suggest? I haven't found much better and I find myself dealing with this shit over and over, I'd love more sources. I held onto it basically so I can explain to 45 fags that the thing doesn't fucking insta-kill every time you hit the person center mass. I hadnt heard of them making up shootings before or calling 2 shots of 9mm a one-shot stop though by the way.

Related, if they are real, would agree that with sample sizes in the hundreds a <~20% difference most likely shows a more deadly round? I ask because fmj versus jhp if that helps.

>>35011816
I would suggest using your time more constructively than arguing with 45 fags. They'll be dead soon anyway.

>>35011619

Fuck, I didn't realize that. I started writing up formulas a while back to figure gel penetration with fmj and various diameters/lengths for another but gave up for a bit. That was one of the examples I was using and it might have been giving me problems Thank you anon, I might start back on it. So far, I can get rounds of similar proportions within 20% most of the time

>>35007889
aside from him being arbitrarily labelled as abusive to justify being shot, he left so it worked . 22 out of a rifle will fuck someone up out of a short barrel handgun not so much unless a good shot or lucky

Am I allowed shoot my abusive wife now?

>>35011816
>>35011816
If youre looking for sources for the whole 9mm vs .45 debate i can give you a couple. Problem is i've been around this argument enough to realize that both the pro .45 and 9mm arguments are flawed so don't consider these gospel or anything.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/Abstract.aspx?id=253695

(paper specifically on the subject)

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2045.htm

(non professional opinion but pretty good imo)

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

(professional opinion)

There's also a opinion piece written by an FBI agent ("Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU) that's pretty relevent.

for jhp vs fmj i usually work from establishing the validity of the 12-18" penetration standard, to comparing the wound volumes of jhp vs fmj when limited to that penetration. It's also worth pointing out that RN bullets tend to make smaller wounds than FN designs of the same size. Similarly worth mentioning is the increased likelihood of deflection with FMJ.

Many FMJ proponents will argue that it offers better penetration. Thing is that RN does better, and even JHP can do better under many circumstances(sheet metal, AG) than FMJ due to it actually being bonded and staying in one piece without expanding. IIRC DocGKR went over it in one of his posts, but which one escapes me.

Be careful getting to emotionally or intellectually invested in any one side of an argument. The more I read up on ballistics the surer i am that not everything is as simple as the most respected current sources would frequently claim.

>>35011862

Terminal ballistics are an obsession for me, Im more interested in the subject than comparing any guns beyond whether theyre practical for a purpose. My guns are mostly glock tier mainstream and those that aren't I get for their caliber.

>>35011980
.577 Tranter is king

>>35012029
Harryballs derps em all!

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>>35011980

>>35011956
.25 is better out of a pistol barrel as it was intended.

>>35012024
Fair enough.

.22lr is very unlikely to stop the attacker in a short time without taking several shots.

Why take the risk when you live in a country with far better options?
M-muh shot placement is less important with powerful rounds

>>35011980

Reading it now and screenshotted the post for again later, thank you anon, you seem well enough versed that this will be good. Since you didn't mention it, I want to share that FN also will often penetrate significantly deeper than fmj because it's much less likely to tumble which might be relevant to someone looking for 380 pistol.

>>35012168
>FN also will often penetrate significantly deeper than fmj because it's much less likely to tumble

exactly correct. One of the two reasons hunters have preferred FN bullets for over a century now. elmer kieth is particularly famous for his work on FN hunting rounds, if you want to read more about them in general.

>>35010815
The human body is surprisingly durable.

>>35010997

Why bother?

>Heavier
>Bulkier
>Single shot

As compared to the NAA .22 mini revolver. I have one as my absolute minimum EDC. I'm not going to be getting in any shootouts with it, but it's better than a knife.

>>35010514
we're always open to more quantitative data if you have any

>>35012287

Funny, you say that as if a lack of better data excuses using bad data for drawing conclusions.

OSS studies are useful if you want to know generalities of how a semi random hodge podge of real world shootings played out subdivided by caliber.

If instead you want to understand which round is a better choice for SD when controlling for the variable circumstances which plague such OSS studies then you should look elsewhere.

>>35010690
all depends on the hombre
https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

>>35012387
Holy shit. 14 hits with a .45 including lung and head shots and the nigger made it to the hospital alive.

>>35007974
use 22 magnum

>>35013247
different dimensions than a .22lr, not recommended.

>>35008170
Where i live guns are controlled also. I control mine.

>>35008174
You should see what a 22lr does to a 160 pound deer. One to the forehead and drops like a rock. Get some real world experience someday.

>>35010540
I bet he went to the hospital

>>35012271
Bro, I kind of want to grab one of those with the folding grip. Should I? I want something I can throw in and minimally armed in a relatively non-permissive environment.

Or should I just pocket carry an lcp and be boring?

>>35007889
link

>>35013926
J E T F I R E
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