More details on Russia's new Ratnik-3 future soldier co

>>34999173
Get rid of the fucking helmet and you're good. Ain't nobody going to be wearing that fucking thing in prolonged combat.

>>34999173
>More details on Russia's new Ratnik-3 future soldier concept.
who fucking care about this concept?

they are still trying toi finished the Ratnik-2

>>34999188
I assume it will have some sort of cooling system, and the increased protection would be worth sacrificing visibility

>>34999195
>who cares about the future that shit aint real lol
it's interesting and important you stupid nigger

>>34999173
They won't respond with anything because it will be vaporware just like everything else Russia announces these days.

>>34999205
>interesting and important
it just a fucking concept

stop jerking about this, this is worse than Poland PT-01 tank

>>34999173
Russia is still using titanium and aluminum oxide for their plates, rofl. Meanwhile US 4th or 5th tier units have boron carbide ESAPIs, 1st tier are using silicon carbide composites or flexible III+ vests and half a dozen HUD prototypes have been around since the 00s.

The US will respond by laughing at their shitty lab prototypes that, if they even work, will never be fielded in line units.

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I forgot to add they're claiming it will enter service in 15- 20 years.

>>34999212
>hurr durr concepts are dumb the present is more important
kys dumbass

>>34999205
>I assume it will have some sort of cooling system
Like that would make up for having to have a fucking full-helmet on everywhere. At least make the ballistic mask shit detachable, or nobody will be wearing those goddamn things voluntarily.
>and the increased protection would be worth sacrificing visibility
No.

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>>34999225
>wearing those goddamn things voluntarily
This is the Russian military we're talking about here. I don't think the individual soldier will have much say in the matter.

>>34999173
>shit that will never ever be produced, let alone go further than the early development stage

Vatniks don't even have any idea of how they could technologically develop 90% of that shit. They just make prop and claim some bull. That's what third worlders do. Very much like africans building helicpoters and autonomous robots, but it's actually just an unmoving prop and there was absoluetely 0% research on technological development.

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>>34999224
>kys dumbass
they show a working exoskeleton in the forum, and nobody talking about it
this thing was fielded in Syria

and what to fuck is this >>34999190 just ball bearing and steel bar

>I forgot to add they're claiming it will enter service in 15- 20 years

like never

>>34999235
You shouldn't write it off so easily. The vatniks have historically had some very decent scientists, definitely not 3rd world tier.

>>34999256
Sure, but a few decent researchers doesn't translate into the masses of engineers and technicians needed to actually build out lots of stuff.

Look at Slav planes: they're constantly turning out tiny batches of the latest to keep their scientists busy, but nothing every hits mass production where it matters. The only thing they get out of it is propaganda.

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So have they decided to adopt the AK12 yet?

>>34999256
Russia has traditionally been pretty notorious for puffery. Plus their R&D just has never been the same after the fall the USSR. Too much brain drain and too little money to go around.

>>34999275
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4492427
it is still being consider

>>34999270
I think this has more to do with the effect of the economic sanctions, rather than an inherent lack of capability. They've had to delay a shit ton of stuff. I think we'd be seeing a whole lot more T-14 and Su-57 if they hadn't been sanctioned.

>>34999289
I have a feeling that they might decide to wait for a true next gen rifle.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/25/chukavin-sniper-rifle-svch-kalashnikov-concern/

>>34999318
Being affected by sanctions in the first place is a sign of lacking capability. If you're dependent on e.g. Western manufactured thermal sight parts (as Russia was until very recently), sanctions will hurt you directly instead of merely slowing GDP growth.

>>34999173
this is good

i am happy usa's probably got some cool tech they are hording now they will release it can't wait for tiny robot mechs you can ride into to battle I will get ti pilot and provide supporting cover and do other cool shit in


also the russians are planing on showing off there next gen plane

it has lasers it can go into space

what is usa going to show will probably be cooler

>>34999252
>exo skeleton
>skeleton

2spoky4me comrade

lol

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>>34999346
SR72 that may or may not already exist

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>active camo, the armor changes color based on it's background

But it doesn't do any of that. What's your point? If I create a paper mache flying saucer and list off performance attributes that include lightspeed travel and the ability to fuck OP's fat mom, is that newsworthy?

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>>34999371
it's not unthinkable

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>>34999275
The AK12 is a prime example of how Russia works. At first it was a pretty much completely new rifle, they announced it widely, included it in every gun show to show how big their dick is. And then you've got the actual, mass production thing, which is nothing more than a regular AK74M with extremely minor changes (that had already been invented by American accessory companies).

100 more things to break

After 3 combat deployments I am a firm believer that the ideal soldier carriers a rifle, a chest rig with 5-15 magazines depending on mission, an IFAK, a camelbak, and that's it. Wear basketball shorts and a hat.

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>>34999394
>And then you've got the actual, mass production thing
they dropped the AK-12 because the competitor finish state test before them. the AK-12 was still being developed in 2015. Kalashnikov only had the AK-400 to push for a state test

so they remaned AK-400 to AK-12

>>34999173
>Russia
>ever affording their meme Vatnik kit
Don't pick either, just get off my board.

>>34999399
>ideal soldier
The ideal soldier isn't in the special forces, which if anything like this is actually made and put in use, would mean your average soldier would never see this in their lifetime.

>>34999205
Protection is rarely worth visibility

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>How will the US respond?
They wont? There have been many of these "future warrior" concepts done all around. They're just hype and vaporware. I'll be expecting another Kremlin sponsored CGI film, but that's the extent of these things ever actually being used.

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>ctrl f
>no cheek weld
kek

>>34999822
New stock designs and optic mounts have made it possible to get a sight picture with full face helmets. And it's not like the Russians ever cared about cheek weld.

>>34999829
I haven't seen anything that looks comfy to shoot as far as full facial coverage and funs go.

>>34999256
>The vatniks have historically had some very decent scientists, definitely not 3rd world tier.

And most of those were killed or fled the country when communism took over. Culturally, Russia is only barely starting to recover from the intellectual suicide-pill they took in 1917.

Holy shit is this halo ODST?

>armor battery runs out
>camo index is now 0%

>>34999822
I can't even look at this picture without cracking up harder every time.

>>34999379
I'm annoyed at this company for being so cheeky about this-they're a big player in camo and seem to be capable of impressive things,but we have zero footage of this so called invisibility tech years after they said it was a working prototype.

>>34999173
>vatnik-3
like pottery

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>>34999884
There is no doubt that Halo has had an impact on the aesthetics of military design. It's a fucking cultural icon.

>>34999252
Maybe those ball bearing steel bar things are rudimentary spring loaded pistons to transfer carry weight into the exoskeleton than the wearer.

>>34999829
>new

Taking a folding stock and flipping it over to make a U shape for use with helmets has been around for a while anon.

>>34999173
>How will the US respond?

By doing nothing because the sanctions are killing Russia already.

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>>34999883

Looks like they ripped off hasbro

Helmet looks like a gi joe steel brigade. Body armor looks like a rise of cobra neo viper.

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>>34999173
The Vatnik-3 is about as real as the Indian armored suit concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJpGRaZfaP8

>>34999173
Well if you pair a tracking point gun with a google glass you've got on underneath a gas mask youve got pretty much the same thing.

>>34999173
>future soldier

the people who come out with this stuff are basically just sci-fi nerds.

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>>34999917
>He wants videos of invisibility
But anon if you can see them you don't realize they're invisible and if you can't you don't see them in the video.

>>34999173
>>HUD aiming system with automatic ballistic calculation
That would be rad as hell but I don't know how practical it would be implement
Is there actually some prototype of it or is it just an idea so far?

>>34999252 more info?

>>35000483
The US has something similar with ENVG III.

http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/envg-iii-fwsi-integrated-night-vision-targeting-solution

>>35000497
google russian sappers in syria

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>>34999173

>>34999173
Lets be perfectly honest here. They won't be able to afford their own system. If they make it they'll probably only have a handful of suits and they won't work near as well as advertised.

>>35000727
Plus our special forces just wants to dress like Navy SEALs. So when Navy SEALs get their own exoskeletons, then i think FSB and GRU will buy some Chinese copies.

>>35000467
what game?

>>35000567
haha holy shit

>>34999173
>weapon system appears to a OICWS type assault rifle with guided grenade launcher, ammo appears to be cased telescopic
It just won't die, will it?

>>35000366
this reminds me of trojan suit troy hursby made

>>34999173
I'll believe it when I see it. Russians will still primarily use AK-74s with their T-72s covered in Kontakt in 50 years.

>>34999318
Don't forget to thank the frackers.

>>35000933
Having a bullet and an HE option in a single weapon is just too useful.

>>34999173
ratnik rhymes with vatnik

>>35001945
no it's fucking shit

>>35001956
Theon, is not this a time for your lessons?

>>35001945
But the added weight makes it unacceptable.

its pretty neat-o but its going to be expensive as fuck no infantry will get to use it

>>34999863

It's about the comfort of not having your face blown off

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>>35000438
Simply showing a picture of what a gun cam sees that takes up the full monocular is so 10 years ago. Image fusion is the future, see pic related. Anon here has a link to more info: >>35000538. It may seem like a small advancement, but it will really make all the difference in the world.

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>>34999822
>Russians
>cheek weld

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>>35002200
>radio
>ECM
>SIGINT guided arty strikes
Why burgers can't into radio discipline and peer conflict?

>>35002235
Because we dominate the spectrum, anon. And we use encrypted digital burst-transmission down to the lowest level.

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>>35002200
By the way, for the US TALOS program they want the capabilities of the ENVG to be usable with your normal vision (rather than just overlaying thermal over normal night vision), and the ENVG offers some impressive options such as outlining heat sources such as people. How would you like to be able to spot someone through foliage in the middle of the day like you can with a thermal camera, but without giving up the detail that your normal vision provides.

>>35002235
>ECM
>SIGINT guided arty strikes
>against short range radio protocols with similar power to Bluetooth and designed to be resistant to jamming
Good luck targeting something like that with artillery, and good luck jamming it without making yourself a massive target.

>>35002260
>Because we dominate the spectrum
Against Iraqis?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/russias-superior-new-weapons/2016/08/05/e86334ec-08c5-11e6-bdcb-0133da18418d_story.html

>>34999173
Laugh

>>35002122
Sure, but so far the consensus among warfighters is fuck full facial coverage in an actual firefight.

50 kopecks deposited into your account

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>>35002326

the US already has plenty of mockups to show off as well

quick thoughts
>active camo
would be cool if it actually works
>built in gas mask
Sounds awful, nobody will wear this all the time
>electronic brain stimulation
why
>HUD
that helmet is not nearly large enough to fit any existing or even near-future HUD except maybe a super low res monochrome. It will absolutely be a beneficial feature in the future but optics of today are not good/small enough
>shoot around corners
everyone has been trying for ages and it always sucks
>control various UAVs and send/receive data from command center and other soldiers
> OICWS type assault rifle with guided grenade launcher
now this we might actually see something productive from

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>>35002361

>>34999173
What is it about people that causes them to take Russian paperware claims at face value?

half this stuff is still in the lab phase in the USA. Russia won't have it for another 20 years.

>>35002367
>>electronic brain stimulation
>why
It helps you remember your training

>>35002384
>Russia won't have it for another 20 years.
That's literally their timeline for adoption.

>>35002397
The only acceptable use of brain stimulation is convincing your troops that they're witnessing the rape of Nanking every time they physically look upon the enemy. That their enemy has the form of a demon and eats children for fun.

Using brain stimulation for anything other than rallying your troops to bring about the maximum amount of chaos and violence upon the enemy force is a martial sin.

We Ghost Rekonski, now, bratan.

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>>35002427

>>35002397
>>35002427
It's blatant buzzwording for no purpose. It impresses the idiots who take Slavs seriously, I guess.

What brain electrostim actually fucking does is reduce learning times during specifically tailored training by about 30%. That's great if you're a fighter pilot or military hacker in training, but it's got nothing to do with grunts on the front lines during wartime.

>>35002278
Ooh fuck that pic looks neat.
...what is it?

>>34999205
>increased protection would be worth sacrificing visibility

Thinks taking a hit instead of avoiding it entirely is a good thing.

laughingbitches.jpeg

I'm calling it, that this never goes beyond some advanced field testing/limited operational deployment with some key Spec Ops units.

>>35002485
thermal fusion NOD

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>>35002326
Which is why basically all SWAT equivalents in other countries where criminals using rifles are uncommon opt to use ballistics face shields if they can afford them? Only reason soldiers wouldn't use a helmet with ballistic protection over the front currently is weight and the level of ballistic protection that they companies actually offer (current options don't offer protection against rifle ammunition). There are already solutions to the first issue that have been demonstrated, such as the method of transferring the weight of the helmet to the soldiers shoulders used in Revision's Kinetic Operator Suit demo (see pic related).

>>35002367
>that helmet is not nearly large enough to fit any existing or even near-future HUD except maybe a super low res monochrome. It will absolutely be a beneficial feature in the future but optics of today are not good/small enough
Resolution isn't much of an issue if you're not using cameras instead of a look through HUD (which is what everything is moving to today). Example:
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/oasys-thermal-imaging-and-aiming#red

>>35002427
>soldiers should be motivated by anger and hatred
Protip: those emotions make you more likely to fuck up.

>>35002485
It's literally the subject of that post and the post he's replying to, in addition to being in the name of the images in both posts, you fucktard.

>>35002514
>Which is why basically all SWAT equivalents in other countries where criminals using rifles are uncommon opt to use ballistics face shields if they can afford them? Only reason soldiers wouldn't use a helmet with ballistic protection over the front currently is weight and the level of ballistic protection that they companies actually offer (current options don't offer protection against rifle ammunition)......

B-but Rainbow Six stated that the operatives ditched the lexan because it warped their sight picture.

>>34999173
>they actually named it ratnik

why?

>>35002620
It means warrior in Russian. Russian language is like the opposite of English, most words that sound badass in English have somewhat funny pronunciation in Russian.

>>35002620
>ratnik=warfighter

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>>35002514
kek, GSG-9 wears facial coverage and chain mail, does that mean chain mail is the next advancement in policing or warfighting?

no, ya fuckin dingus. who woulda thunk that in nations where getting stabbed is the most likely scenario of conflict in the line of duty, it makes sense to use something that provides facial coverage, or hell, CHAIN MAIL for another layer of protection against blades.

meanwhile, my original point still stands that warfighters unanimously disregard full facial ballistic anything when it comes to actual shoot outs

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>>35002798
>warfighters unanimously disregard full facial ballistic anything when it comes to actual shoot outs
They simply don't have such option. Mail will help against blade, American face armor will not help against bullet so this is same to the no armor from protection point of view.

>>34999173
How are they going to afford this new toy?

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>>35002798
>kek, GSG-9 wears facial coverage and chain mail, does that mean chain mail is the next advancement in policing or warfighting?
Nice reading comprehension. If you would have read the entirety of those 2 sentences of my post, you would see I already addressed that. If weight and the existence of affordable similar auxiliary protection rated to protect against the threats soldiers actually face weren't issues, then they would be using it. Pic related and similar systems have seen use with exposed turret gunners for this exact reason. If/when an army adopts a powered exoskeleton in the near future, weight will cease to be a significant issue for those soldiers and they will more than likely be equipped with similar armor.

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>>35002514
>Resolution isn't much of an issue if you're not using cameras instead of a look through HUD
It is for aiming though. Consider if it's supposed to replace a red dot, it'll need to be accurate to maybe 200yd. Can the dot be displayed small enough and move in minute-enough amounts to aim? Will the point of aim be distinct? I made a quick low-res example. Black how a low-res display might show a dot while the red is the actual point of aim. This is a guess - I don't know how good the image actually is. If it's high enough DPI to show a 5 MOA dot with like 20 pixels it's probably good enough.

>>35000567
>Powerarmor rape
Cyka

>>35002871
>They simply don't have such option
right, and it has nothing to do with muh grapes

the cost and other issues like weight, visibility, comfort, functionality in a firefight, associated with developing a full face helmet capable of stopping rifle rounds consistently aren't worth it when you consider the number of troops we've lost to getting shot in the face.

>>35002911
I read your post, and I responded appropriately to your random implication that because SWAT teams from other nations use full face gear, I am wrong in saying warfighters unanimously oppose any existing form of full facial coverage in a firefight. You were the retard here m8

also, you're delusional if you think powered exoskeletons are going to be of any use for personal mobility of line infantry, let alone in combat.

>all grunts wear 100+ lb of bullshit and are on the edge of being immobile
>exoskeletons enabling troops to carry an extra 700lb of bullshit means troops are gonna be carrying an extra 700 lb of bullshit, again to the point of immobility
this is how reality would actually work
>weight will cease to be an issue for soldiers
t. eric nylund

>>35002916
>Consider if it's supposed to replace a red dot, it'll need to be accurate to maybe 200yd.
No, it doesn't. There's nothing keeping you from using the system in place of a red dot at close ranges and for rough aiming at longer ranges while keeping a scope on the rifle for precise longer range engagements (which is how it will most likely work if adopted in the near future). You'd also want it to be usable far past 200 yards if you wanted soldiers to be able to depend on it as their only sighting system other than BUIS.

>>35003024
>I am wrong in saying warfighters unanimously oppose any existing form of full facial coverage in a firefight. You were the retard here m8
Again with the poor reading comprehension. There's really no point in me going on if you aren't going to actually read my posts.

>>34999173
Sounds good and all but Russia's economy is in the drain and it's not going up what with all the corruption, Saudi and Venezuelan oil and anti Russian sentiment in the us and europe.

Their infrastructure really needs to be updated, they need to start truly exploring the resources in the Arctic and Siberia and they need to boost the morale of their nation greatly and encourage breeding of high iq whites with subsidies vs the shitskins that have infested Russia.
Urbanization is also key.
and for fucks sake update your ugly cars and ugly soviet era rotting buildings.
This is part of morale.

This probably won't happen but if Russia wanted to it could become a super power.
Focus on genetic engineering to better your population as well.

>>35000467
>>35000838
Underrail, hella good game. I didn't finish it for some reason though, forgot why.

>>34999222
Seems like titanium is more expensive than silicon carbide.
Don't see why they couldn't have silicon carbide. Silicon is one of the most abundant elements on the planet and carbon is easy to get as well.

>>35002326
>Sure, but so far the consensus among warfighters is fuck full facial coverage in an actual firefight.

your first sentence in response was this >>35002514
>Which is why basically all SWAT equivalents in other countries where criminals using rifles are uncommon opt to use ballistic face shields if they can afford them?

If you weren't actually asking a question or making a nonsensical response to my post, it sure as fuck sounds to me like you were implying the US combat vets were wrong about not using full facial coverage in a firefight.

>>35003176
Sintering ceramics is hard. It takes good technology, and Russia has shit technology. What Russia does have is lots of titanium ore.

>>35003231
Why? Doesn't seem like ceramic armor is difficult to produce.
Titanium is a rare element that needs to be dug out from mines and then refined. That is much more expensive than silicon and carbon.
It's just a different manufacturing process for the two.
No reason they wouldn't be able to do it.

We're not talking about carbon nanotube armor over a hexagonal patter of tungsten carbide followed by a reactive explosive ceramic covering.

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>>35003193
>>Which is why basically all SWAT equivalents in other countries where criminals using rifles are uncommon opt to use ballistic face shields if they can afford them?
>If you weren't actually asking a question or making a nonsensical response to my post, it sure as fuck sounds to me like you were implying the US combat vets were wrong about not using full facial coverage in a firefight.
Are you seriously this retarded?

>>35002474
>>35002427
>>35002397
>hack helmets
>make the russkis ahegao on the spot
>instant win

>>35003231
>Doesn't seem like ceramic armor is difficult to produce

Of course it doesn't seem difficult, if you don't have a fucking clue about the subject!

Russia is still using aluminum oxide FFS. The rest of the world moved past that in the 90s.

>>35003347
>>make the russkis ahegao on the spot
While displaying gay porn on their HUDs.

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>>35003326
I'm literally a cryptologist and I can't decipher your posts.

why are you even bringing up swat teams in other nations who don't face criminals armed with guns as often as the US does in response to my post about WARFIGHTERS not having positive things to say about full facial coverage in a firefight?

please, riddle it to me or some shit some more because you're making no sense if you actually intended to reply to my first post

literally what the fuck were you ever implying with your first sentence involving SWAT?

>>35003360
Ok why is it difficult? Explain the process.
I'm sure Russia makes their own light bulbs and do you have any idea how fucking complex it is to make a light bulb? Specifically the tungsten filament?

>>34999917
>Implying this isn't a Govt black project now
>Showing the public the refined stealth suit
Lol

>>35003024
>can't have full face helmet capable of stopping rifle rounds
>we choose to not wear helmet full face helmet capable of stopping rifle rounds because reasons
Pick one.

>>35003430
>>35003470
I never said either of the two things you just posted, queer

find me a combat tested and troop reviewed full facial helmet system, rated for full power rounds from a rifle, that isn't suffering in one of the aspects I mentioned in my earlier post. those being:
>cost and other issues like weight, visibility, comfort, functionality in a firefight

>>35003410
I'm not going to waste time explaining something outside my field to an idiot, sorry. Google a few textbooks. Think temp differentials affecting the growth rate of grains, like tempering a metal.

You right now:
>gocarts are an industrial process
>airplanes are an industrial process
>do you have any idea how hard making a gocart is? planes gotta be cake!

>>35003031
That sounds like a good way to do it. Funny thought, the HUD could be used with a magnifier like a regular red dot. The HUD could even change reticle when the line of sight is through the magnifier.

>You'd also want it to be usable far past 200 yards if you wanted soldiers to be able to depend on it as their only sighting system other than BUIS.
What I mean is they just need to match existing red dot clarity and dot size. 4 and 5 MOA dots are only effective out to a certain range. But combined with magnified optics like you said would be fine. Then you could get away with even larger dots.

>>35003494
>find me full facial helmet system rated for full power rounds from a rifle
Fixed. No such thing. Also no plasma rifles in the 40 watt range.

>>34999186
holy fuck this thing isn't even close to being ready the actuation isn't even powered, or controlled. this is fucking north korea tier built out of rubber and aluminum.

>>35003538
Seems like you're the moron here if you're incapable of exploring it.
Are you fucking serious? Tungsten filaments and ceramics are at least related.
Do gocarts have her turbines? Radar? Hydraulic mechanisms for steering? Hundreds of safety mechanisms? Pressurized vessels? Advanced telecommunications equipment and software?
I know how tungsten filaments are made and how microprocessors are made. Both very complex. And Russia does both.
Are you seriously going to tell me making a micro processor is easier than some fucking ceramic armor? Are you that retarded?
People like you should be forced to wear a badge on their arm that says "IMBECILE" in bold neon green lettering.

>>35003569
>holy fuck this thing isn't even close to being ready the actuation isn't even powered, or controlled.
They don't need to. Russian passive exo has better performance than inferior western powerd exos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=700hj-K4AZs

>>35003569
Russia is a LARPer state with nukes. That's literally a cosplay outfit! No powered actuators, lots of little rubber triangles and hexes (presumably representing flexible rifle armor like Stealth Armor or Hexar), and a random helmet-mounted light for the lulz.

They couldn't even steal the Revision suit like China did.

I bet none of the vatniks can name a real reason why exoskeletons are an important force multiplier.

>>35003569
it's a mockup, it literally doesn't do anything.

>>35003670
Better carrying capacity. Able to lift heavier objects to clear paths. More endurance/longer range to a soldier running at x speed. Theoretically faster short burst movements. Heavier weapons able to be fielded that otherwise wouldn't be possible with a normal human. More strength in a smaller package vs some 6'5 meat head.

>>35003650
At that point its a series of braces.

>>35003693
Of course, it's Russian.

The American Revision, and last year's TALOS, were both fully functional displays.

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>>35003669
>hexes (presumably representing flexible rifle armor like Stealth Armor or Hexar)
No. It is new fashionable design of ceramic multi-hit plates. Flexibility is done via articulated overlapping plates similar to the Japanese :^) plate armors.

>>34999173

M855A1 is becoming the standard round for all riflemen.

>>35003650
>the fox and the grapes

Americans tested the HULC in active and passive versions in the mid 00s. Koreans have been using passive exoskeletons for years in routine industry and Americans started using them last year.

>>35003709
tantalizingly close.

>>35003569
> electricity is the only way to solve problems

>>35003768
>Electrical heating is for soft NATO troops!
>Superior Russian housing needs no electricity!

>>35003729
This really isn't innovative.
It's the same concept behind dragon skin armor.
Have a lot of smaller pieces of armor and link them up. Similar capability to a flat piece of armor much greater movement.

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> Ratnik-3 squad assaulting local commercial center: 2017 Colorized photograph

>tfw you realize Russians are still using break bulk logistics instead of pallets

Turn the third world dial to 11 comrades!

>>35003494
>other issues like weight, visibility, comfort, functionality in a firefight
Existing options may not provide protection against rifle rounds, but they do prove that operators prefer the extra coverage when it's available and protects against the threats they're up against. All that leaves is the engineering problem of providing protection against rifle rounds in a similar package, which is already working being worked on (see the Enhanced Combat Helmet that already offers some level of rifle protection while not being overweight and the helmet support system already mentioned here: >>35002514 that significantly reduces the problem of helmet weight and would allow for heavier helmets than those that are currently issued). Soldiers' opinions on the usability of a piece of gear that isn't even currently made with the intent of being used in scenarios faced by soldiers are irrelevant. What matters are the opinions of people who's use case ballistic face shields are currently currently made for, so we can know whether it's worth the time/money investment to engineer ballistic face shields/full face helmets for use by soldiers.

>>35003551
>That sounds like a good way to do it.
That's how the US military is already doing it with the FWS mentioned here: >>35002200. It actually isn't meant as a replacement for the Aimpoint or any other optic, but rather as a replacement for the lasers that are commonly used by soldiers equipped with NODs that doesn't potentially give away your position or leave you trying to identify your laser vs everyone else's.

>>35003724
>and last year's TALOS
??? The TALOS prototype for field testing isn't due until next year.

>>35003853
>The TALOS prototype for field testing isn't due until next year.

The test version isn't due. The working prototype was still shown off behind closed doors, tho' IIRC there are some stills of the frame online.

>>35003882
>tho' IIRC there are some stills of the frame online.
How about you post them then. Otherwise there's no reason to believe you aren't talking out of your ass.

>>34999205
they aren't going to have the money to actually develop anything
they need some wars or something to help their industry

>>34999252
What >>35000067
says, puts part of the weight of body armor, helmet other gear onto the hips and down to the ground through suspension links. Removing the static weight strain is useful for someone standing for long periods. Just don't ask him to run uphill very far.

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ITS LIKE IM IN THE EARLY 2000s AGAIN

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>>35003894
>me: brings juicy OC rumors from the MIC
>you: stale memes about shrapnel protection

Don't hate, appreciate.

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>>35003938
Here's the CGI'd plastic model from two trade shows before, so you can get an idea of the contrast.

Wow

>it's literally nothing

xD

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>>35003938
>this obvious mockup with a massive impractical chest piece, no groin protection, and fake wear is totally what the TALOS program is going to produce
The final product is going to look much closer to pic related with a bit more coverage like what's pictured here: >>35002911 and a different helmet than whatever video game monstrosity that thing was based off of.

>>35003938
implying TALOS isn't going to be a steaming pile isn't shit too.

why the fuck are we building exos again

>>34999822
Supposedly if you have a camera based gunsight like they claim, you wouldn't need a cheekweld, firing from the hip might even be better due to increased stability.

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>>34999173

>>35004027
Because the end result is going to much closer to what I said here: >>35004000 than some over the top Fallout tier shit.

>>35004000
>he doesn't know they are two different programs

And that's why I rarely visit /k/.

>>35004085
which begs the question why do we need it at all? its literally a crutch, and a boondoggle rolled into one.

>>35003780
this fucker gets it.

>>35004103
What are you even going on about?

>>35004108
>which begs the question why do we need it at all? its literally a crutch, and a boondoggle rolled into one.
The original purpose of the TALOS program was to offer an uparmor option for soldiers tasked with doing close quarters work and building clearing. The advantages should be obvious if you have done any reading about the TALOS program.

>>35004165
>The advantages should be obvious
they arn't. obviously. enlighten us.

>>35004194
Why the fuck are you even on here if you can't figure this shit out yourself. Pop quiz, the soldiers you're up against in an urban environment are now equipped with the level of coverage depicted here: >>35002911 with all of those plates offering XSAPI levels of protection (able to withstand at least 2 hits from M993 tungsten carbide core AP 7.62x51mm) while being able to move as they do in current year unencumbered by the extra weight of that armor. How do you successfully engage them with a gun that wouldn't be considered beyond impractical if you were to use it in current year against soldiers not equipped with that level of protection in that environment? Keep in mind they are still going to use cover like any other soldier would and aren't just going to stand there and let you shoot them repeatedly like a video game.

>>35000567
Kek

>>35004358
it might able to stop a fucking .300 h&h but if it ain't cost effective why bother.

also what happens when shot three of m993 hits it? does it just pop off so the soldier can be dragged to safty? last time I checked most guns are capable these days of firing more than two bullets.
in a city fight you dont need heavier weapons you need better intelligence.
you dont need more penetration if there are civs around and if their arnt civilians around then just use cheap arty to level the block.

the point remains its a waste of time and money.

the crass demands of war make these and expensive toy at best, and a cumbersome hinderance. these will have no place on the battle field they are going to be a glorified construction equipment when fielded. a way to sell shit jobs to grunts.

these have no place in combined arms, that isn't filled already and more cheaply.

>>35004358
conjecture: the post

I liked it when you crisscrossed timelines

>>35004749
>it might able to stop a fucking .300 h&h but if it ain't cost effective why bother.
The cost of losing a soldier is ridiculous with all the benefits given to their family. There's a reason it's considered cost effective to use a plane to drop a JDAM rather than risk soldiers now days. Also, keep in mind that this isn't meant for general issue.

>also what happens when shot three of m993 hits it?
You better hope those hits were close together on the same plate, otherwise the plate could quite possibly still stop them. Also, good luck placing 3+ shots close together on someone outside of room clearing situations without them moving at all. Furthermore, needing to expose yourself to fire 3+ shots into one person who isn't a static paper target with a battle rifle in order to take them down significantly increase the chances of you getting shot.

>does it just pop off so the soldier can be dragged to safty?
More than likely, considering existing body armor is already designed to do so.

>you dont need more penetration if there are civs around and if their arnt civilians around then just use cheap arty to level the block.
If you need to resort to using artillery or crew served weapons because your guns aren't effective against enemy soldiers, then you have already lost.

>>35004815
What's wrong? I simply posted an example given two of the commonly listed goals for the TALOS program, a powered exoskeleton legs to take the weight off the soldier/make them more mobile and 60% coverage with XSAPI level protection.

>>35005025
Uh what? M993/m995 will easily pierce level iv ceramics.
Even more. And m855a1 proved you can load 556 very hot.
M995 Is a 55 grain projectile that's shorter than m193.
You can probably get 3550 fps from it from a 20 barrel using the m855a1 loading.
No modern armor will stop that.
Maybe half inch ar500 level 3+ can or level 3 + and a level 4 plate.
Point is nothing soldiers actually wear can stop a fast tungsten carbide core bullet.

>>35003938
straight outa fucking destiny

>>35005236
>Uh what? M993/m995 will easily pierce level iv ceramics.
Ever heard of XSAPI? NIJ IV isn't the highest rating body armor can have.

>M855A1 loaded slightly hotter from a 20" barrel will penetrate an NIJ IV plate
No.

>>35003401
SWAT teams don't have to worry about weight and endurance, therefore they choose better protection every time even if it slightly decreases and distorts their field of vision. Muh wurrfighters prefer not to have heavy helmets because their neck has to bear it and get crippled from the long, indeterminate hours spent in the field.

The point he is trying to get across is that you are mistaken on the primary reason on why they don't currently want super heavy helmets. If the wurrfighters don't have to worry about the endurance problem they would be more likely to choose the heavier face protection, especially if it also acts as a cooling system and a gas mask AND a HUD with friendly ID tags all in one.

>>35005236
Why not go buy some commercial ceramics yourself and start shooting them with your precious AR-15?

And if you do happen to penetrate them, try stacking two of them back to back and see what happens. Then think about why that's important. Then also consider what your options might be if you happen to need to shoot someone nearly covered from head to toe in it.

>>34999173
>How will the US respond?
By the time that thing sees mass production the USA is gonna be producing freaking Space Marines. The Russians simply don't have the capability of keeping more than a few of those things for display purposes.

>>35004749
>also what happens when shot three of m993 hits it?
How are you going to shoot them accurately three times with M993 on the exact same spot?
How are you going to do this when they are suppressing you with their own rifles, except theirs will still be able to easily maim you with a single hit to any of your huge unarmored spots?
How are you going to suppress them and prevent them from doing the above, when they are not afraid to get plinked by your rifle a few times?

>>35005254
Unfortunately that's a downside because I hate the conspicuous lack of midriff armor in D2 Titan sets. They have more metal on their legs than they have on their tummies.

>Implying Putin won't just take the money budgeted for this project from the Russian government and pocket it for him and his buddies.

>>35005518
>How are you going to suppress them and prevent them from doing the above, when they are not afraid to get plinked by your rifle a few times?
They would probably still be worried considering they aren't literal walking tanks and are still vulnerable. The better question is how are they going to be able to afford suppressing fire when they need to load their guns with tungsten carbide core full power rifle ammunition, which costs a couple dollars per round for the armies that buy it.

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>muh 5.56 is the pinnacle of small arms calibers
Battle rifles are the future, faggots. Get used to it.

>>35005610
my magic 8 ball says no. battle rifles like exos will be given under only a small set of circumstances.

>>35005567
When you don't have anything but your flesh to protect your face, you will definitely try your best to not introduce it to bullets, which can hamper efforts to shoot accurately. Expensive ammunition can still be a threat to someone wearing a heavy helmet, but now it is much easier to train (aka brainwash) these people to focus on getting a good shot, take their time aiming, and to trust in their armor to keep them alive if only for the first hit. It helps that all the extra armor does actually protect them, of course.

>>35005518
nothing will bring down the cost of ap ammo faster than the fielding of infantry armor again. the reason ap is almost unheard of is infantry armor has seen a steady decline since the 1600s. hitting harder faster is less effective than hitting slower softer with armor.

>>35005610
Level IV can stop AP .30-06 and armor is still improving. Upgrading to rifle cartridges will improve nothing.

>inb4 somebody mentions some bargain-bin improperly-manufactured steel armor as if the mil uses that

>>35005710
As mentioned earlier in the thread, XSAPI plates exist and are designed to stop M993 tungsten carbide core 7.62x51mm AP ammunition rather than the steel core .30-06 M2 AP that NIJ IV/ESAPI plates are designed to stop.

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>>35005710
>Upgrading to rifle cartridges will improve nothing
o rly

What is XM1158 ADVAP? What if we take this bullet concept and scale it down to a, super fast, flat shooting, and hard hitting 6.5 caliber?

This is the future.

>>35001892
2017
American armed forces still using M4A1 (shorter barrel M16) and Abrams tanks.

>>35005953
Both of those have aged far better than their Russian counterparts.

>>34999173
are you telling me octo camo exists for real now?

>>34999379
Has that thing ever been shown off in person. It's probably just a green sheet and some video editing

>>34999173
Back to the topic of this Russian design, I don't think the rifle can really be called an OICW. This is less of a smart grenade launcher with a rifle attached and more of a traditional (if belt-fed) bullpup rifle that has a stubby grenade launcher underslung. Not overly ambitious.

>>35001881
Didn't he go bankrupt because nobody wanted it?

>>34999270

>nothing hits mass production

Because there's no reason to have them? You are acting like its WW3 and they need to keep pressuring the West in an arms race yet the truth is that T-90s and Su-27s with the modern trimmings are still a massive threat to any invading force, let alone a nuclear arsenal.

Russia's always had decent engineers and scientists. They were the forerunners of ALOT of tech for years until the 80s when Reagan basically tripled all military spending to cover the catch up.

Russia's just on the same standard tech curve they've always been on and they are on a shoestring budget. As long as their shit works for their local proximity and gets them sales to foreign nations then they don't care since they proved with Crimea and Georgia that it's all saber rattling as long as there's no threat to a larger community like the EU.

>>34999173
>>active camo, the armor changes color based on it's background
>>built in gas mask that activates when needed
>>electronic brain stimulation(yes this is actually a thing and Navy SEALs are starting to use it in training)
>>HUD aiming system with automatic ballistic calculation
>>ability to shoot around corners
>>helmet's computer system will allow soldier to control various UAVs and send/receive data from command center and other soldiers
>>weapon system appears to a OICWS type assault rifle with guided grenade launcher, ammo appears to be cased telescopic

They can't afford to give such equipment to every infantryman.

They can't even afford to put a GPS unit in every vehicle.

The U.S. has nothing to worry about.

>>35002338
So is that what those py things I get selling ugly DOTA hats are called?

bet you 20 bucks my hot loaded 10mm won't give a fuck about your XSAPI bullshit

>>35003670
>>35003709
Lift heavy objects back down the logistics chain so all the stuff you need to conduct any military operation from disaster relief to peer war can get to you a little faster and a little cheaper. They will be useful at the tip of the spear as well, but logistics are where they will truly shine.

what makes people think that just because some technology might come along that allows soldiers to carry more weight, that the people in charge of them are going to have a sudden change in heart and let them keep any extra mobility said technology offers rather than just load them up with however much they can hold

>>35006267
Because even old exoskeleton prototypes like the HULC can carry hundreds of pounds of gear without issue. You would need to give a man a ridiculous amount of gear and mount a Christmas tree on his head before the weight would become a problem.

Ergo; the age old problem of overloading the poor man's knees can't happen again simply because the jump in carrying capacity far exceeds your ability to even think about what you could carry to fill it all up.

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>>35006306
>You would need to give a man a ridiculous amount of gear and mount a Christmas tree on his head before the weight would become a problem.

>>35006248
why not use a fork lift? it already exist, its parts are everywhere, it lifts more longer, and it doesn't take specialized staff to service?

unless you need to move a bunch of boxes on a dirt runway only short enough for a small craft in which case why do you have an exo at every dirt airport? and isn't that expensive as fuck?

>>35006343
Forklifts have limits due to their size, shape and (lack of) fine precision, and often struggle with nonstandard sized objects. An exoskeleton would provide a nice mid ground between one and an augmented worker, and would also help the forklift be more useful by loading stuff onto pallets more easily. Also if you have a safety violation with a forklift, the federal government will hold it agisnt you in future bids for work for quite some time.

T. HAZMAT Technician who works around forklifts regularly

>>35006522
>their size
Ever seen a stand up model?

>shape
???

>and (lack of) fine precision
How fine of precision do you really need for moving large, heavy objects?

>often struggle with nonstandard sized objects
Then get a clamp and clamp the shit out of them.

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>tfw night/k/ reads like a halo book
when does school start?

>>35006600
>muh wheels and elevators are better than any puny man
>limbs are for the weak!
>except when we need them to tie stuff to the lift

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>>34999173
>>34999186
>>34999190
>>34999224
>it's literally just rubber with a hex pattern (because hexes are sci-fi), coupled with aluminum struts, a prop gun and a bike helmet

When has Russia become such a parody of itself?
I get what they're doing, and it will work to impress the domestic audience and some gullible idiots abroad, but at this rate what exactly does distinguish Russia from jokes like India or Iran doing the same thing?

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>>35006671
It's a mock up for a concept that's 15-20 years away, dumbass.

We have stupid mock ups too.

>>35006684
Except there's nothing stupid about going full UNSC.

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better question: why hasn't the US airborne changed their motto to "Feet First Into Hell"?

>>35006671
Russia wants to be America in 1988, America wants to be America in 1978. Or 1998 or 1788 or something.

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>>35006691
this is true

>>35006696
Because that's space corps motto.

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>>35006696
This just happens to be the new armor for paratroopers.

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>>35006630
Some of the Halo books were good though.

>tfw read Fall of Reach 5 or 6 times in high school

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>>35006734
Reach was my go to book to read in class because fuck being a good student.

>tfw we will never get a halo movie showing a team of spartans jumping out of a burning pelican and freefalling a few kilometers to earth

>>34999173
What was Ratnik 2?

I want to see Ratinik 1 and 2 compared with 3.

>>35006684

The difference is our mockups are a minor publicity stunt among all the RnD focused on things that have actual uses and a future.
Meanwhile in Russia meme "future" projects get the limelight because their actual long term projects are being held up by lack of money and increasing difficulties in sourcing advanced components they're unable to produce (of which there are disturbingly many for a supposed world power).

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>>35006798
>What was Ratnik 2?
The Wicked Wall.

>>35006806
>RnD
It's R&D you dipshit.

>>35006815

It's RTD, burger.

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The original was better and more realistic desu.

>>35006825
>Russia has rounded smooth lines
>America has straight and flat blocks
This is how it should be.

>>34999173
Why the fuck are my fellow Americans putting down and always talking shit about the newest Russian military hardware.

You folks butthurt because Putin called Obongo a nigger, and that cunt-whore-bitch Hillary didnt win?

T-14 Armata, PAKFA T-50/Su57, AK-12, Ratnik are all pretty damn cool.

Better than any other gay shit from faggy ass Western/North/South Europe. East Europe is best Europe after all the were civilized by the Yellow Man.

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>>34999173
RATNIK-VATNIK?

>>35006823
>It's RTD, burger.

You're a moran. It's R2D2

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>>34999173
RUSSIA CAN INTO HALO!

>>34999173
I don't think something like this is a good idea for the US. That's an awful lot of expensive equipment to throw some cheap Mexican or Appalachian retard in. You can have 2-3 soldiers for that price range, and it won't be as big a loss if they die.

>>35006825
lol which goober marketing rep put the mag pouches on the pecs?

>>35003853
>Enhanced Combat Helmet that already offers some level of rifle protection
Nah, it is more of wishfull thinking. UHMWPE is very vulnerable to wide range of rifle threats and behind armor trauma says "you are dead"
http://www.medsci.org/v11p0409.htm

>>35007302
>In the tests reported here, the helmet used is the US Marine Corps' Lightweight Combat Helmet (LWH), manufactured by GentexCorp and made of a para-aramid material.

PE is vulnerable to steel core, but it stops most rifle rounds otherwise.

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Thanks Russia

>>35006847
>my fellow Americans
This is why /k/ needs flags

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>>35005025

I'm with you on room clearing, as long as we act like Mary Sues about muh collateral damage we will have door kickers and protecting them helps. However, your remark of "once your small arms don't defeat their armor you have lost why try artillery you have just lost" reminded me of pic related.

>>34999235
YOU TAKE THAT BACK APOSTLE SAFO IS LEGEND!

>>34999173
looks like a human sized pl-01 rofl

>>35007853
>Commercial
>Reality
You're paying $3 for a burger assembled by teenagers. What the fuck were people expecting, Gordon Ramsey 5 star restaurant quality?

>>34999371
It'd be the first thing that wanted to fuck his fat mom.

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>>35008434
fixed for you

>>35008082
>However, your remark of "once your small arms don't defeat their armor you have lost why try artillery you have just lost" reminded me of pic related.
How does stating that it will be near impossible for an army to win a battle if they need to use crew served weapons or larger because their rifles are ineffective against basic soldiers remind you of a fake quote?

>>35003839
I have no idea what you're taking about. Shipping goods?

>>34999173
Neat suit, but what I'm really interested in is the stock on the gun. Shit looks mad comfy.

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>>35007694
>2017
>not using at least steel tip ammo
Are you muh 7.62 NATO ball fag?

Also PE has humongous back face deformation and this is disaster for helmets. Only helmets in existence that protects against rifle rounds fair and square are Russian made Bsh-1 and Vulkan-5.

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>>34999173

>>34999252
This is a mannequin.

>>34999173
How many times does Russia plan to go broke anyway?

>>35009779
There is a good chance this year that their cash reserves will run out.

>>35009048

Wasn't this thing talked about back in like 2002?

>>35008434
>Gordon Ramsay
>5*
kek

>>34999409
That pic is an aek 971

>>34999173
Kek more like vatnik-3, I wonder if it comes with a stanced lada and a bag of sunflower seeds

>>35009927
Yes, it's very old and Russians just started copying it now. This shows how outdated Russia is.

>>35006807
kek <-
kek

God future war is gunna be so Gay

>>35010270
In the future, everyone will need to shoot each other 10 times on average to even have a chance of puncturing something important.

The Japanese were right all along; the true path of battle is to fire on full auto all the time all day long.

>>35009998
that thing is the AK-12 compertior for Ratnik

AEK-971 or A-545 was excepted for service in 2013

>>35005365
You mean nonexistent plates that ae only in the experimental stage and that still won't stop a 3550 fps plus tungsten carbide core bullet?

>>35005567
According to the dod itself m995 is like 40 cents a round.
Also can we talk about the fucking bullshit of this round being banned for civilians?
Fuck the ATF and fuck that Ap ammo ban that was only meant to deprive us of surplus ammo and rifle ap ammo not just pistol ap ammo.

>>35010361
civilians don't need AP ammo

>>35010522
Fuck off.
SHALL
NOT
BE
INFRINGED
and bootlickers think this since mainly government forces wear body armor.

>>35010342
Try plates that the US military has had in their inventory for over a decade. Only reason they aren't issued is because that level of protection isn't needed and they weigh more.

>>35010361
Bullshit, M855A1 costs ~$1 a round. There's no way a fucking tungsten carbide core is going to be cheaper.

>>35010748
Yeah that's what it costs for you, not the military.

>>35010798
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/556mm_ammo.html
>Cartridge, 5.56mm, Armor Piercing (AP), M995
>Unit cost: $1.44 (Fiscal Year 2005).
What's your source?

>>35010867
That site also says the government pays 38 cents per round for M855.

That's bullshit.

>>35010917
>That's bullshit.
Do you have any sources or anything else to say otherwise?

>>35010953
Never mind I was looking at the "lead free" version of M855.

It says it was type classified in 1982 but the description sounds an awful lot like M855A1. I thought M855A1 was supposed to be like brand new, is this some sort of Cold War fuckery where they disguised it as an environmentally friendly training round?

>The M855 "lead free" ball cartridge has a bullet with a conical steel insert and a tungsten composite core in a copper alloy jacket. The intended use is to maintain environmentally "clean" ranges.

The cartridge is identified by a green bullet tip.

Type Classification Date: 1982.
Unit cost: $0.38 (Fiscal Year 2005).

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>>35010361
>>35010748
M995 is about $1.59 in 2011
M855A1 is $0.34 in 2017 (price really fell down when mass production started)

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>>35011061

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>>35011061
>The cartridge is identified by a green bullet tip.
M855A1 doesn't have a green tip, the core is actually exposed.

>>35011097
>M855A1 is $0.34 in 2017 (price really fell down when mass production started)
Damn, that's impressive.

>>35011167
Earlier versions had a light green tip.

http://usarmorment.com/pdf/M855A1.pdf

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>>34999173
lel at the extreme vatnik butthurt in this thread as they lie to themselves that this technology represents the *actual* future of military tech

>>35000366

Holy hell, that's hilarious.

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>>35010101
You aren't that stupid, are you anon?

>>35010867
Perhaps I was wrong but there is no reason why it couldn't cost 40 cents a round.
Ammo manufacturing isn't exactly hard and the price of the uneaten carbide core in terms of weight would be less than ten cents. The brass, powder and primer are around that cost.
The main cost would be manufacture and I'd say that would be 20 cents.
If it wee in mass production that's what it would cost. Probably even less.

And if the rest of the world, including dumb fuck USA, actually started to seriously mine their rare earth metals(tungsten included of course) the price of tungsten would be greatly reduced further lowering the price.

>>35006696
Because airborne will never make a combat jump in MCO again.

>>35006630
what's going on in this pick

>>35013253
left spartan was killed by plasma fire and right spartan is mad

>>35010917
your right its bs. its 37c