Is shooting a 9mm Philips head at someone a fucking meme? Does

>>34937147
May help against vampires if round nose FMJ doesnt do it

>unproven meme rounds

Stick with Gold Dots and HST that actually have good track records in LE use. Spend that saved time on shit that actually matters
>instilling a warrior mindset
>dry practicing good reps
>shooting drills with a shot timer and keeping track of your performance
>learning your local and state laws
>being aware of your surroundings

wa la, more helpful and productive over ballistic masturbation

>>34937147
Well if anything it's an FMJ hauling ass. Like to see some ballistics out of a rifle

>>34937147
Yes.

>>34937147
it's in my lcp in my pocket right now, good penetration in .380

>>34937147
They are made for stuck screws. You shoot the screw head so you dont strip it. Shoot once maybe twice and the screw comes right out. Hold the gun upside-down for reverse thread screws.

>>34937242
>wa la

>>34937242
I carry in New Jersey and hollow points are banned. These memes are the next best thing.

>>34937399
>Hold the gun upside-down for reverse thread screws
hahahahaha that got me

>>34937147
there's two types of phillips bullets: penetrate and defense

the bullets made to penetrate have been proven again and again to offer increased penetration to other bullets, and are really good in smaller guns where penetration might be an issue

The defense bullets are shaped like the penetrate bullets, but the phillips head on the bullet is thinner.

I don't know this performs, but just letting you know the other brand by the same company is pretty good.

>>34937147
They are proof that ballistic gel is not a reliable medium for designing bullets.

Shit, their whole selling point is the "temporary cavity is huge in ballistic gel". Think about that for a second. It has been shown time and time again that any projectile going under 2000fps does not create enough hydro-static shock for the temporary cavity to cause any damage of physiological significance on surrounding tissues, but those temporary cavities sure look nifty and non-temporary in gel blocks.

>>34937523
>the bullets made to penetrate have been proven again and again to offer increased penetration to other bullets
That's because they are solid copper and deform far less. They don't penetrate any better than any other solid copper round.

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>>34937463
when will this meme die?

>>34937469
Expanding FMJ, motherfucker

I can't comment on that round, but why not just get some HST? Either way I don't understand the stupid argument that is always posted on here "will X work against baddies" fuck you dude do you want to get shot by ANYTHING? I didn't think so. Now how would you like to get shot by one of the best performing hollow points on the market? (HST) You don't? Okay what about this Phillips head round? No? Oh, understandable because they are all going to FUCK YOU UP!!

Would I buy this bullshit? No, I'll stick to my HST. If you want to get creative and carry this bullshit go for it but I'll stick to the tried and true, no thanks.

I don't understand why some people are so eager to replace a hollow points with some new design, well I do know, money...

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>>34939020
hollow points have changed quite a lot over the decades, from being unused to having unreliable expansion to achieving very good ballistics. it all required experimentation and iterative improvement. so now we have lots of different successful variants. it also means HST, while top shelf, is not the best performing in all categories.
>they are all going to FUCK YOU UP!!
then let people vote for the future with their wallets and jello tests. there was a time when 9mm hollow point was a meme too.

>>34937147
I for one think its a neat round to use as an FMJ. Looking for the 10mm versions, no clue if the 115gr Defense versin will punch through lv IIIA vests tho.

>>34939970
10mm will REKT level IIIA.

>>34937469
>I carry in New Jersey and hollow points are banned. These memes are the next best thing.

Soft-point then?

>>34937147
Totally ineffective against Torx enemies.

>>34937242
*voilà

>>34937147
Robertson square head master race
philips a shit

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>>34945014
i have those loaded in my .32

>>34937147

This design has been around since the 80s.

It's proven and actually really good.

The guy who invented it went bankrupt trying to make it succeed and then bad shit happened to him

>>34937147
They are less of a meme than hollow points because the Lehigh rounds actually work.

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>>34937242
spbp

Did a gun show this weekend, the amount of stupid shit I hear about defensive ammo is going to drive me blind with rage one day.
>Tell someone all you carry is speer gold dot both in your AR and CC guns
>Explain the benefits of carrying a round tested in thousands of actual LE and defensive shootings instead of just a lab
>Have to listen to 20 minutes of "But X just hit the market anon and this guy on youtube shot a pork shoulder wrapped in a jacket in front of some drywall, gold dot is just dated it doesn't even have a polymer tip

>>34945711
I love people who advocate carrying frangible ammunition that only penetrates 4" because "muh energy dump" even though energy transfer isn't a wounding mechanism. Dr. Gary Roberts' stuff should be part of the sticky so people who have no fucking idea how bullets actually work (e.g. everyone who is completely unaware that 5.56 and .223 rounds other than M855 and M193 exist for defensive/duty use or the people who think shooting a water jug is an accurate measure of a round's effectiveness) will stop spouting their bullshit on here.

>>34937242
As this thread grows, everyone will ignore this post arguing over meme rounds that claim to work based off of "energy transfer" and other bullshit that has nothing to do with expanded diameter and penetration depth through a variety of barriers, which are literally the only two things that matter when considering defensive ammo.

>>34937242
>instilling a warrior mindset
Ouch. I'm embarrassed for you

>>34945876
Energy dump in the form of (maybe) a few degrees of heat in the surrounding tissue.

>>34938736
Thats stuff is shit, you are better off carrying ball ammo.

>>34942639
In an Auto?

>>34937147
Absolute and total meme round. Wound diameter of FMJ and penetration of a JHP.

Only use is if expanding rounds are illegal where you live.

>>34937147
I probably at least kinda works.

Same principle as how flat nosed bullets produce bigger wounds than FMJ. The flutes redirect compressed tissue which tears a larger wound cavity. Questions how well it works at lower velocities. Considering FN works at just about any bullet velocity it seems likely that they'd work even with handguns

>>34946156
>Wound diameter of FMJ

False, and JHP has FMJ wound channels after 4-6 inches anyway.

> and penetration of a JHP.

They actually penetrate more, which many people like cause it makes them good for game defense and giganiggas.

>>34937147
Meme

>>34937242
good advice

>>34938386
What the fuck is somebody who understands BG testing artifacts doing on my K? you mean temporary cavity isn't representative of real wound channels?!?!?!

>>34945224
(you)

>>34945826
>facklerfag spotted

>>34946051
>thinks energy dump has anything to do with thermal energy

>>34946203
>False, and JHP has FMJ wound channels after 4-6 inches anyway.
Let me guess, you don't understand how ballistics gelatin results work, do you? also, JHP doesnt produce the same wound diameter or volume as fmj, mostly due to it being significantly bigger.

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>>34945826
Dr. Roberts' is seriously the zen master of duty/defense ammo. Great methodology, great knowledge. And as to the frangible rounds and "tip shedding" rounds and jacket shedding rounds...I just can't anymore. Shit, I even had a guy tell me Saturday that a 40 grain varmint .223 round was the ultimate home defense round for the AR-15 because reasons.

>>34945876
I have this conversation with a family member CONSTANTLY (mall ninja, washed out of the corps).

>Anon, you need to use this under-pressured, "barrier safe" round because [insert over penetration and family and neighbors and dog etc]
>Anon you can't carry at my house because you use that scary ammo
>Proceeds to get shit faced drunk and let his 7 year old shoot .22LR at a bucket of sand in front of his 6 ft cinderblock back wall, 30 feet from his rear neighbor

>>34946270
>significantly bigger.

Its is maybe 10-20% bigger at most at max expansion. Which only happens right after 4 inches. You do know that the first 4 inches of gel represents skin right? So most of your expansion is wasted on skin and not flesh or organs.

Sounds like you don't know how gelatin works.

>>34946343
>Its is maybe 10-20% bigger at most at max expansion
No. And FWIW max expansion =/= max recovered expansion =/= recovered diameter, which is what people in the know will actually record. Max recovered expansion is what people record when they only think they know what they're doing.

>Which only happens right after 4 inches.
Nope. Neck for most quality modern bullets is .5-2". Nice try though.

>You do know that the first 4 inches of gel represents skin right
Not really. Also the whole "skin equates roughly to 3-4" of BG" thing is more in reference to the back skins tendency to hold in projectiles.

>So most of your expansion is wasted on skin and not flesh or organs
That isn't how that works.You don't "waste expansion" by expanding in the skin before penetrating underlying tissue because expanding in that first tissue means that the hole in the underlying tissue would be bigger than it otherwise would have been.

>Sounds like you don't know how gelatin works.
Clearly.

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>>34945961
Indeed, one should definitely not be mentally prepared... especially when it comes to personal safety.

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>>34946543
>Go to range while I was in Colorado like 10 years ago, head into the little check in trailer
>Range fudd appears to lay out the rules
>Tells me no rapid fire, no double or triple taps, no draw, no bringing the pistol back towards my chest and punching out, no one handed shooting except in "english style", and (I love this one) no human shaped targets
>Say okay, and ask where people can go to practice defensive/combat type shooting
>He gets loud and tells me "Nobody here does that fake army bullshit. You're not in SWAT.", goes on to explain that if punching paper in slow fire is good enough for police qualification, it's more than enough for "regular people".
>mfw

>>34946260
So when something slows down due to friction, no energy is lost as heat?

And something slowing down faster, due to increased friction (itself due to expansion), doesn't lose more energy as heat?

>>34946543
>>34946932
Hit reply before I was done, meant to say that to a LOT of people, metal prep and actual force on force type training is a completely foreign concept. I'd say 80% of people who get a CCL/CHL etc literally buy a gun, get the license, punch paper a few times a year in a calm, well lit setting and think to themselves "Well, that's it, I can hit a man sized target at 7 yards like 8/10 times. I'm ready for anything."

>>34946993

And tactical instructos get fired from a podunk 2-man PD, got to iraq as a contractor, and shit the bed on route irish. All the tactical warrior masturbation in the world isnt going to make you a warrior.

Training and muscle memory cannot be made up in meditation and tough guy posturing and pumping yourself up to face an aggressor will only set you up for failure when Omar shoots up your mall just as you reach the door and all you do is push through, walk to your car, and drive away AS YOU SHOULD!

>>34946523
>And FWIW max expansion =/= max recovered expansion =/= recovered diameter,

No shit i never suggested otherwise.

>Nope. Neck for most quality modern bullets is .5-2". Nice try though.

Thats even worse then. You need max expansion at about 6-8 inches for it to actually mean anything which is why anyone in the know doesn't regard expansion at all.

>Not really. Also the whole "skin equates roughly to 3-4" of BG" thing is more in reference to the back skins tendency to hold in projectiles.

No, its in reference to 4 inches of gel equating skin. Thats why they calibrate with a BB. if it goes past 3.5 inches, the gel doesn't meet calibration.

>You don't "waste expansion" by expanding in the skin before penetrating underlying tissue because expanding in that first tissue means that the hole in the underlying tissue would be bigger than it otherwise would have been.

Except you do, because by the time the bullet gets to anything important its peeled all the way back and isn't making that big of a hole.

>Clearly.

Yes this comment of yours has made it quite clear.

>>34945224
I hate you, but you're right.

>>34947349
>doesn't even know how much bigger the average expanded JHP is than fmj
>"by the time the bullet gets to anything important its peeled all the way back and isn't making that big of a hole."
>"its in reference to 4 inches of gel equating skin. Thats why they calibrate with a BB. if it goes past 3.5 inches, the gel doesn't meet calibration."
Wow, id bother to argue against you but you seem to be doing a swell job of that on your own.

So, like, did you here these ideas from some sort of "professional" or come up with them on your own?

>>34947594
A professional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk