So......why was the Luftwaffe unable to prevent the Dunkirk

2,739 Hurricane and Spitfire sorties

big guys made them didn't fly so good

>>34912676
Weather played a big role. Stuka sorties were scrubbed on at least two of the days because of bad weather.

>>34912676
Brits were allowed to retreat due to Fuhrer's orders. He tried many times to sign peace or even alliance with brits. Germans were good at tactical scale, but stategy was fucked up by some wannabe-painter from Austria :)

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>>34912676
because it's hard to kill 400,000 soldiers or sink 861 vessels (they did sink 243 though) within 8 days with (not even uncontested) air power alone.

>>34912676
They feared the Anglo warrior.

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>>34913005
>Fw200 Condor

>>34912864
Kek

>>34912676
British and French fighters had total air superiority, Germany had overextended its supply lines dramatically (thanks, Rommel) to the point where stukas and 109s could have gotten there, but getting back would have been dicey under all but the absolute best conditions, and combat manuevers were completely out of the question.

Germany couldn't get air cover over the beaches for the same reason the retreating allies had made it there in the first place: Germany had no fuel, no airfields, and too little manpower in France, not to mention that the German high command were extremely concerned with the possibility of French partisan action and thus chose to keep troops with the supply train and infrastructure whenever possible.

>>34915581
>Germany had overextended its supply lines dramatically (thanks, Rommel)
Rommel was a division commander who had nothing to do with managing German air force's supply lines.

>>34912914
For once the Fuhrer isn't (purely) to blame. Von Ruhnstedt and von Kluge were terrified of the salient being cut off by forces from the South a lá Arras and suggested the halt order to Hitler. It was fully supported by the OKW and Goering was promising Hitler he'd be able to completely destroy the pocket from the air.

Because airpower alone cannot stop a ground force from moving, anon.

>>34915581
>total air superiority

Wrong.

>>34915581
Everything you said is absolutely fucking bullshit and very wrong, please go away.

>>34912864
I kekled

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>>34912864
Kek

>>34912676
there was only like 1/10 of the luftwaffe within range. When they did fly they did well, but often they were grounded due to weather

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L1ifGA7zsE

You also don't destroy a ground force with an air force - you use your air force to support your ground troops as they destroy the ground force. The Germans could have done this, but they didn't. It was another of Hitlers epic fails.

>>34915581
None of this is correct.

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Hitler's Bright Ideas thread?

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I feel like this could be a new meme

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>>34917650

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>>34917696

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>>34917707

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>>34917721

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>>34917724

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>>34912864
why does he wear the mask?

>>34912676

goering wanted the luftwaffe to have the honor of finishing the job but it was stupod they should have used ground forces

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>>34917748
Taking requests if anyone has a good idea for this

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>>34917770

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>>34917796

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>>34917828

>>34917796
this was a good idea though, he just didn't cancel enough experimental shit.
If the Nazi's hadn't blown their budget on batshit insane gadgetry, they would've stood a much better chance at winning.
>>34917770
Rommel was the guy who outran his supply lines, Hitler didn't have anything to do with that.

Weather. Also you can blame Okb for removing Rundstedt from command causing a 48 hour delay on the panzer divisions moving in. Had he stayed in command they would have all been captured and there would have been peace in the west I imagine.

>>34917856
>Weapon is shown to be great
>Bah cancel it, lets focus on crazy shit like the V2

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>>34917841

>>34917897
he should've cancelled ALL of the experimental programs.

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>>34917901
Here is the template

>>34917908
Probably right. But why cancel a really great assault rifle? They could have had the whole army with them in 1943

>>34917897
MP43's CONCEPT was good, but the weapon itself was garbage.

>>34917637
This never happened

>>34917650
Moscow had only symbolic value.

>>34917707
Jet fighter bombers work fine

>>34917721
Planned and suggested by the General staff.

>>34917748
Planned and suggested by the General staff

>>34917770
Rommel is over rated and never had a chance.

>>34917828
He usually listened to his generals, he just picked some generals over others.

>>34917901
Göring was a politician he didn't do the strategic planning for the luftwaffe he had people for that.

>>34917909
I think the problem with your meme is that it isn't "hitler's bad ideas" it's "Ayyy lmao german generals justifying their own failures by blaming everything on Hitler"

>>34917933
Hitler plz.

>>34917933
Show your flag

>>34912864
He done kirked his head!

>>34917724
Germans had an Anti-Comintern treaty with Japan and Italy. Fun thing is when japs have attacked Mongolia and were causing mess on the eastern soviet borders, germans haven't supported them.

>>34912676
Because their sorry race-traitors lives were spared by the germans. Something called honor, that scums like you who rejoice about terror bombing civilians just because your jewish masters ask for it can't understand...


>>34917637
>>34917650
>>34917696
>>34917707
>>34917721
>>34917724
>>34917748
Educate yourself or stop this unfunny forced meme you idiotic piece of shit

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>>34918240
>Because their sorry race-traitors lives were spared by the germans. Something called honor
>Educate yourself
Boy...

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>>34918270
>Boy...
Best argument ever my turd, I give up!

>>34918290
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_war_crimes?wprov=sfla1

Not to say there weren't good people in the Wehrmacht, but the command and Hitler certainly didn't know anything even remotely resembling honor.

>inb4 (((Wikipedia)))

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>>34918307
>Wikijewdia
Try again, maybe a CNN or Vice video will work

>"didn't know anything even remotely resembling honor"
Sure m8... a miracle country BASED on ancient virtues of germanic honor, fighting a war it tried to avoid until the end, outnumbered 140 to 1 in land area by the British, Soviet, French and American empires, outnumbered thousands to one in natural resources, and hopelessly outnumbered in population... knew nothing about honor.
The mercenaries, drafted by force and terrorists sure taught those bastard evil nazis about honor when they bombed Dresden for the fun or raped all the german women and girls with negroes or let the communists make a living hell from more than half of Europe

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>>34918353
>Try again, maybe a CNN or Vice video will work
Wikipedia has its flaws, though not remotely comparable to these shit sites

>a miracle country BASED on ancient virtues of germanic honor
t. no idea about German history

>fighting a war it tried to avoid until the end
that's why they decided to invade Czechoslovakia, Poland, Danemark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, the USSR, Tunisia and Lybia?

that's why they declared war on the two largest economies in the world?

and no, the Nazis knew nothing about honor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS

>when they bombed Dresden
evil, but the Nazis did the same in
Guernica, Warsaw, Wielun, Rotterdam, London, Coventry etc etc

You are extremely delusional, typical for a Naziboo.

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>>34918515

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>>34917933
>Moscow had only symbolic value.

Here's a source showing that your statement is completely false, how'd you like to respond?

>>34918551
This is a map. Not an argument.

>>34918576
If you can't read the map then you're not worth talking to

>>34917885
>blame Okb for removing Rundstedt from command causing a 48 hour delay on the panzer divisions moving in
What is Okb? Oberkommando der .... ?
And Rundstedt was not removed from command during BoF.

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>>34918515
Last time I answer because you're wasting my time:

First, do you think your videos of war in Poland will make me cry? I could post pics of what the poles were doing to german civilians (including women and babies) -before- germany invaded them, but it's a blue board, so Google it yourself.

Your list of countries the germans invaded shows that you really have no clue... I said they tried to avoid the war (which is undeniable), but when those other countries declared war to them or were preparing to invade them (in the case of USSR), were they supposed to do nothing about it?

Again, about the bombings, you are such a blatant ignorant or a bad lier...
You cannot compare their bombings of military objectives like in Poland to the massive terror bombings of civilians like in Germany and even France, Dresden being the perfect exemple of how allies were evil pieces of shit (firebombing multiple times a city with no military objective at all at the very end of the war). Just remember that their strategy in Dresden (waiting for the firemen and ambulances to come before bombing again, again and again, is the favorite strategy of muslim terrorists targeting civilians nowadays...
London is a good exemple against you too, because Hitler tried to negotiate to stop the english terror bombings for so long before resignating to bomb London reluctantly.

Again, I am not even reading your bullshit wikijew link, I got those kind of lies at school already.

You are extremely brainwashed (didn't even know things you can learn in 5 minutes on the internet, outside of Wikishitia)
>>34918551
So the only military value a city has is its railway system? With millions of slaves ready to die on whatever impossible construction site is asked (look at the Stalin White Sea Canal)?...
>muh Hitler knew nothing about war and wanted to take Stalingrad just because he didn't like Stalin
>I know everything about WW2 because Wikipedia and school, and basically Hitler was stupid

>>34918582
You can't formulate your own arguments you need to spend more time in special ed. If they even have such things in your savage country.

>>34917933
>This never happened
what is dunkirk. Wehrmacht could have smashed and annihilated the British and French forces, but Hitler decided to prevent them from doing so.

>Moscow had only symbolic value.
Many Russians at the time believed if Moscow fell they were all doomed. Stalingrad had only symbolic value.

>Jet fighter bombers work fine
The Me-626 would have made a fantastic fighter if Hitler hadn't demanded it was used as a bomber (when a bomber wasn't needed, but a great fighter was)

>Planned and suggested by the General staff.
*Hitler

>Rommel is over rated and never had a chance.
I disagree. With enough supplies and good support, he would have done extremely well in north Africa.

>He usually listened to his generals, he just picked some generals over others.
After France he did whatever the hell he wanted.

>Göring was a politician
and a morphine addict

>"Ayyy lmao german generals justifying their own failures by blaming everything on Hitler
His generals were pretty good, its his micromanaging of them and his retarded strategies that caused severed problems.

>>34918240
>race-traitors
>Educate yourself
the irony is amusing.

>>34917750
>Wore the mask
>Crashed all planes with no survivors
>Got caught in the end as part of his plan
Bravo Nolan

>>34918816
>what is dunkirk. Wehrmacht could have smashed and annihilated the British and French forces, but Hitler decided to prevent them from doing so.

They were fighting the entire time, and taking Paris and the rest of france was a higher priority.

>Many Russians at the time believed if Moscow fell they were all doomed
"Some people say" only belongs on wikipedia anno 2006.

>The Me-626 would have made a fantastic fighter if Hitler hadn't demanded it was used as a bomber (when a bomber wasn't needed, but a great fighter was)
It was an early jet, it was by no means fantastic like every other early jet. There is no problem in the idea of jet fighter-bombers.

>I disagree. With enough supplies and good support, he would have done extremely well in north Africa.
Wish thinking.

>After France he did whatever the hell he wanted.
German General's memoirs is a bad source for world war 2. They were just white washing themselves blaming everything on Hitler. This is not the reality.

>His generals were pretty good, its his micromanaging of them and his retarded strategies that caused severed problems.

Yeah that is the myth that former wehrmacht officers like you to believe. And gullible people love to believe it too.

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>>34918240
>getting super triggered over memes
>muh 6 trillion wasn't even mentioned

Unless of course you are pretending to sperg out as a form of reverse trolling, in which case congrats, you got me.

>>34918515
>>34918353
Stfu Faglord niggers, Vice makes quality content

>>34918551

Moscow also had about 30 factories in it that were producing goods and supplies for the Soviet war industry-factories that had not yet been relocated, and two massive blast furnaces that had industrial output greater than any single blast furnace in Germany until 1942. It had four large airfields that would be able to recover and launch Germany's heaviest aircraft, and had Russia's largest rail hub.

Moscow was always a strategic target.

>>34915701

Don't forget that about 50% of German armor was needing repair and they had outpaced their supply lines. The Germans simply couldn't push anymore.

>>34917933
out-fucking-played

>>34917933
>Moscow had only symbolic value.

It was only the center for a crucial rail head and the Soviet bureaucracy, much of which couldn't be moved. So you take Moscow and you end up crippling Soviet rail transportation and severely disrupting their ability to coordinate whats left of their country. Yeah, totally symbolic. Stalingrad literally just had the leaders name, and a tank factory.

>Jet fighter bombers work fine
Was the last thing they needed considering they were in desperate need for more fighters. That and the arado was flown almost exclusively as a photo reconnaissance aircraft.

>>34918743

Show me reliable sources about atrocities being commited in Danzig. I always hear this and never see proof.

Also, the Czechs were not going to invade, nor the Yugos, more the Poles, and the Russians were supplying oil and grain (on credit, because the Germans had no hard currency) until Germany fucking INVADED THEM. The USSR had no plans to invade Europe and this has been proven. You don't provide vital war materials on credit to someone you want to kill.

Also, the Germans committed a lot of atrocities. The grand irony is that the sparkly clean reputation of the Wehrmacht and Rommel was created by the *Allies* no less, that way they could justify rearming the Germans in preparation for a war with the Soviets. I would also love to see your proof of the Allies specifically timing their bombing to kill emergency workers. Something tells me that is total bullshit.

>>34918743
Honor? the only time they fought a real army they got buttfucked... You must be american to be this ignorant

>>34920367
Taking Moscow would not have caused the Soviet Union to capitulate, nor would it have somehow turned the tide of the war in favor of Germany. The fixation on Stalingrad was stupid, but the assertion of people like Manstein that taking Moscow would have changed the overall outcome of Barbarossa is laughable.

See: Napoleon's Russia campaign

>>34920419

There were a lot of blunders in the push into Russia.

The original plan for Barbarossa was to force capitulation in 16 weeks. Extremely distressed German logisticians rolled the general staff that their supply lines could only support offensive operations for 13 weeks. The general staff came back with plans to do it in 12, with some generals commenting about how they could be in Moscow by 9 weeks.

Surprise, the logisticians were right and the supply lines totally collapsed. What made things worse is that Germany, for some inexplicable reason, trusted a third of their front to fucking Hungarians and Romanians who happened to be worse at war in every conceivable way while refusing to draft from the large numbers of willing Ukranians.

>>34920387
>The USSR had no plans to invade Europe and this has been proven.
Haha your post is all bullshit,but this stands out the most

Their whole army and battle tactics were fucking built on attacking, look at their tanks at the time - perfectly suitable for cities, agile combat in good infrastructure , not retreating defensive warfare they experienced

Read a fucking book you autists, I'd recommend some by Suvorov, he's one of the MANY that acknowledge my point that they WOULD invade 3d reich first

fucking idiots ITT, I swear

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>>34920412
the Stormfag is obviously wrong but the Battle of France and Operation Barbarossa were a thing...

>>34920419
It would have utterly crippled their ability to fight and would have likely left most of their industry isolated. >>34920245 did a great job outlining the industrial features of Moscow. That and should they have lost Moscow they would lose the rail head that connects much of their industry (the Lenningrad and Moscow rail heads were vital to the Soviets), this would have caused a drastic decrease in their industrial capacity. Also, to no one's surprise, Russia had changed since Napoleon.

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>>34920487
>Haha your post is all bullshit
not an argument, provide a credible source

also if Hitler wanted to avoid a war why didn't he prepare for a defensive war against the USSR?

>>34920505
Yeah well try reading the whole post maybe?

Fucking dumbass

Where did I state Hitler would want to avoid a war vs USSR? Of course he needed that oil and resources, as well as attack from USSR was inevitable

>>34920487

Proofs? Like I said, giving vital war materials on credit to someone you want to invade doesn't seem intelligent. So either the Russians were not planning to invade or they were totally retarded.

Do me a favor, since you feel like tossing around names, read some shit by David Glantz. He's probably the most objective and well read westerners when it comes to Red Army history and operations during WWII.

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>>34920522
>Where did I state Hitler would want to avoid a war vs USSR?
I thought you were this >>34918743 guy since you responded to a reply to this post... anyway

>The works by Suvorov remain a matter of debate among historians. While most agree that Stalin made extensive preparations for an upcoming war and exploited the military conflict in Europe to his advantage, the assertions that Stalin planned to attack Nazi Germany in the summer of 1941, and that Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler, are disputed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov#Historical_works_about_World_War_II

no evidence.

>>34920543
Why should I trust the opinion of a bloody westerner when I have a damn ex-GRU operative with perfect knowledge besides other people stating the painfully obvious fact of Soviets planning to attack, which you so dearly decide to dismiss?

I mean it's common sense, do you think Soviets would pass up the chance to invade a nation that's balls deep in a war, whilst getting major support from other allies?

>>34920569
Oh man, your evidence to oppose the fact that it's true is some bullshit sentence on WIKIPEDIA of all places?

Do you not see how hilarious it looks? And historians can debate fuck all, it's what they do, but they sure as hell cannot disavow the way soviet military was built up around the years they planned the attack, why they were so obliterated by a sudden attack

>>34920579

Yes. Especially considering that there were literally no plans ever discovered of a potential attack. If there was a plan it wasn't even in the actual planning stages. There is absolutely no proof to suggest that.

Also, I don't give a shit what your ex-commie says, Glantz has done more research into this topic than anyone else, and his views align very well with what I have read.

If it is painfully obvious I want proof. I want actual evidence.

>>34920579
>I have a damn ex-GRU operative

How is that at all relevant to anything regarding the history of the second world war?

>>34920499

Short overview of factories still located in Moscow before the end of the battle of Moscow:
>Moscow Metallic cartridge works, production of all metallic cartridges up to 37mm, incl. 57mm AT gun rounds
>Workers and Pesants Red Tractor Factory(s) producing gears, transmissions and wheels for tanks BT, T-26, and limited T-34
>Moscow Locomotive Plant, producing rail cars and locomotives, later producing tanks JS
>Mechanical institutes producing DP, PPSh, and Mosin M91/30 rifles and machine guns and their smaller associated sub-contracting facility
> Dubna aircraft works produced aircraft of all sorts for the VVS, most crew and workers evacuated east but large and specialized machines still in place
>Artillery plants producing rockets and shells
>Moscow Metal works, producing steel, Iron and Aluminium
>Moscow Energy facilities provided power to sorrounding areas, as well as had fabrication facilities for military lighting-search lights especially.

>>34918678
>What is Okb? Oberkommando der .... ?
probably supposed to mean OkH

>>34920598
There was a lot of armies obliterated by sudden german attack in WW2. I guess they all were planning invasion, so all these german invasions was pure self-defense. Allright

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>>34920787
the Dutch were obviously going to attack...

>>34918816
>The Me-626 would have made a fantastic fighter

It's short engine life meant that the Me-626 wasn't going to be good for anything other than interceptor roles. Even then the preferred tactic by the end of the war was speed in, shotgun a bomber formation with unguided rockets, then blast away back to base.

Hitler secretly hoped that if he spared the English soldiers at Dunkirk, they would be more willing to peace out of the war.

Plus, it is well known that Hitler thought the British people were upstanding and he took no pleasure in killing them.

>>34921156
Interceptors is exactly what they needed.
Also formations with R4M racks wreaked fuggin havoc when they went out. Did way better than when they had to rely on their MK108s.

>>34918743
>but muh Dresden
What is being delusional?

>>34921255
Even if the entire Me-626 production numbers was nothing but R4M racked interceptors it still wouldn't have mattered due to the shitty engines, terrible air command and control abilities, and low numbers.

>>34918816
>>34921156
>Me-626

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>>34921449
the problem wasn't the aircraft anyway, Bf 109 and Fw 190 were fine, the real problem was lack of fuel and experienced pilots.

>>34921492
In the 262's case, the problem was also the aircraft. Everyone forgets that the Gloster Meteor was deployed 3 months later and was a far superior aircraft.

>>34920623
>GRU
>Soviet Military Intelligence
>not relevant to the planning of a European invasion
Not sure if potato, or just incompetent.

>>34915581
This is as wrong as it gets...

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Who would win?

Germany's air defences and largest cities
Or
Some Rhodie with a thing for fire

>>34921519
Meteor was slower although more reliable. It wasn't far superior, if anything it was inferior.