https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/ two_dead_several_injured_in_turku_k

>>34912029
>Why aren't cops trained equally well in the United States?

Because fuck you, thats why.

>>34912054
+1

Also, in america we ALL can carry guns. Almost anywhere besides federal buildings/ports and boarder... which are patrolled by a AR base weapon.

>>34912093
And could you apprehend someone within three minutes of an attack? Can you shoot someone in their legs reliably under stress?

>>34912162
in 'murica the suspect would be gunned down in seconds & then the "good guy with a gun" would end up gunned down by the first cops to arrive, the proverbial dancing on the graves (who did what and why, how this particular tragedy was *clearly the fault of who ever the person doing the rambling happens to disagree with that day etc.) would start before the coroner has even seen the bodies.

>>34912162
>shooting people in the legs
this is against doctrine, and for good reason. firearms are not less than lethal devices, we have those, they're called tasers. if you're using a firearm it means you're just trying to put the person down as fast as possible.

additionally, if you hit the pulmonary artery in the leg, they will bleed out very, very quickly, mostly negating your supposed "less than lethal" method.

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>>34912029

>>34912394
In Finland it is the doctrine. Police is supposed to use the minimum force necessary to apprehend a suspect. At every step of escalated situation the goal is to defuse the situation. No, you aren't supposed to "take down the crook" as fast as possible, you are supposed to apprehend the suspect.

And yes, hitting an artery is a possibility and that's why every shot is counted and every time a police officer fires a shot the state prosecutor will investigate the matter.

>>34912466
>you're supposed to use the minimum force necessary
>so draw a lethal weapon and shoot the suspect to non-lethally disable him
you know how retarded that sounds?

>>34912479
If the suspect does not heed your orders and seems to be violent, yes, you draw a lethal weapon and try to disable the threat. Even in this situation the police first shouted at the man and after assessment fired a shot disabling him.

>>34912466
See, if you want to use minimum force, why use a handgun? The usage of a handgun, to me, says that you've already thrown the idea of "minimum force" away, because handguns are lethal weapons used to kill. Tasers aren't some revolutionary newfangled idea, they've been around for a long time now.

>>34912501
You can kill a man with a baton if you want to. Each weapon the officer carries can be used in different ways. Using a handgun to wound is appropriate in some stages of escalation, but in some cases firing warning shots or just brandishing it to reinforce your commands can be justifiable.

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>>34912529
But, get this, why not issue tasers, and sidestep the whole risk?

>>34912550
>But, get this, why not issue tasers, and sidestep the whole risk?
Finnish cops *do* carry tasers (not every single one, usually one person in each two-cop patrol)

>>34912479
>you spot a car with a broke tail light (or was it just "driving while black", can't remember...)
>once you get them to pull over you approach the car with your gun drawn because you were shown that video about a random redneck going ballistic the second he was pulled over & opening fire at thecop
>ask the black driver for his ID, he tells you he has a CCW license while at teh same time complying with your order to show you his ID
>tell him to stop going for his gun before emptying the whole magazine in him, then starting to cry how you told him not to go for the gun
>when the case goes to court judge finds nothing wrong with your actions
you know how retarded *that* sounds?

>>34912029
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-stabbing-idUSKCN1AZ0A6

There was a stabbing in a remote part of Russia in the last 24 hours along with the Finland one. Almost like a trend.

>>34912529
>Using a handgun to wound is appropriate in some stages of escalation

In the US, lethal weapons always count as lethal force, so "shooting to wound" carries the same obligations as "shooting to kill." Using lethal force when not under a significant threat to life or limb is illegal.

American Police follow the exact same policy when it comes to using appropriate levels of force, except warning shots/shots in the leg obviously. Officers are trained to match a weapon with a weapon. Bad guy has a bat/knife/gun, then the officer would pull his firearm. Not go step by step on the use of force scale until one works. That's how you end up with dead cops.

Also, once you pull a firearm that's lethal force. If the bad guy doesn't stop being a dumbass after he sees a firearm and doesn't follow commands then yeah he doesn't care about his own life.. so why should the officer risk his life for someone like that?

>>34912719
>In the US, lethal weapons always count as lethal force, so "shooting to wound" carries the same obligations as "shooting to kill." Using lethal force when not under a significant threat to life or limb is illegal.
yet all Finnish cops combined fire less shots at suspects in a year than LAPD cops fire in a day, what does that say about the American cops' trigger-happiness?

>>34912771
That American cops police ghettos instead of the occasional drunken professor living with their mom.

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>>34912627
Then why did they shoot this knife armed man? Doesn't seem like minimum force to me.

>>34912771
Americans are retarded and like to shoot each other, more news at 11

>>34912029
>bachelor's degree in policing

Hahaha, why not just call it a Master's if they're making up stupid bullshit?

>>34912745
>so why should the officer risk his life for someone like that?
Because the police officer is a public servant. They have a duty to try to preserve all life, even if the suspect is a moron. The officer always risks their life when they are confronted with violence, but they must rise above the morons and criminals and bring them justice. Which in civilized western countries means trial, not summary execution.

>>34912831
>public servant
sorry anon, the "law enforcement officer" is only bound by his duty to cover his own ass

>>34912801
not sure, maybe this patrol didn't have a taser, maybe they did & used it but the suspect had too thick clothing, then again considering how quickly things escalated it's likely that the suspect in fact charged at the cops (otherwise the cops would issue verbal commands until backup arrives & if necessary chase after the suspect & tackle them if they try to escape), you don't start extending your baton or fumbling around with a taser at that point.

>>34912831
Not in America! Self defense is, by definition, not summary execution; and officers have the same rights as ordinary citizens to defend themselves despite being in more dangerous situations.

>>34912812
They have the option to study further 120 credit points (or about two years) if they want to hold any senior ranks in the force. Being an officer is not a job for dumbasses.

If we are accurate, the Police University College is a polytechnic school, which does grant academic degrees, but focuses more on the practical side of education and all graduates have to write a thesis.

>>34912886
Seems to me like those Finnish police were just out for blood. "That's right your honor, he charged right at me!"

>>34912812
>Hahaha, why not just call it a Master's if they're making up stupid bullshit?
you can't go straight for a master's degree in Finnish tertiary schools

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Few pics from the habbenings.

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>>34912394
he was shodded ride in his benis :DDD

>>34913204
what rifle is that? It looks like G36C with a non-standard stock but all Finnish police's G36Cs should be in Helsinki police department's special unit's (aka. "Beagle Boys") inventory, I haven't heard of more having been bought to distribute to other police departments...

>>34912897
>>34912867
Sounds like americans are bunch of pussies who cant hold their fire

>>34913204
how are naughty brgrs finns?

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Benis

>>34914400

Is that a victim or the attacker? if that is the attacker, that seems pretty high up for a leg shot.

>>34914549
Brown = attacker

>>34913891
>>34914460
>>34913204

I have never seen finnish police with equipment like that.

Usuall when they come prepared for a firefight, they're carrying some shitty, ancient MP5's.

First time i see one carrying a rifle and wearing vest with fucking pauldrons and a plate carrier.

>>34914460
Are the mag pouches on his chest rig empty?

>>34912394
Except, you know, European Police actually uses this doctrine(shoot to incapacitate/immobilize, not to kill) pretty reliably.

>>34914665
I have seen them with those ancient MP5s and black versions of the FDF's M05 ballistic vest, first time seeing an olive drab plate carrier and a rifle

ITT: Americans being unable to accept that 'shoot to kill' is not the only succesful doctrine for Police.

>>34912466
Not surprising, this kinda of though-process is really common in no-guns societies.

>>34914748
Do you expect to congratulated for your barbarism? It's a shitty, illegal thing to do and Americans are above it.

>>34912771
Well, two things, Finland doesn't have ghettos infested with savages and the state of California has probably 5 times more cops than Finland.

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>>34912029
Finns are still a bunch of tattle tailing cucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b54FmJ4nezM

Commercial that promotes ratting your parents out to the police if they post something rude on social media like "hate speech" or slander.

Also I have heard from defense force conscripts that the kids love to tell on each other to their superiors instead of working their problems out by themselves. There is no "snitches get stitches" culture in Finland, and Finns also love to brag about how they let police into their apartment without a warrant for noise complaints and how Finns are such good people that they dont mind having police look through their stuff. And cyber intelligence gathering is supported as well and I cant tell you how many Finns have said "muh nothing to hid" when the topic of the NSA or Snowden comes up.

Lastly although Finland has the most gun per capita all the fags in Helsinki think that carrying weapons is evil and the laws are stupidly retarded when it comes to self defense. The government literally tells people that it's illegal to defend yourself and women are taught to let assaulters just rape them. Pepper spray is forbidden except for Immigrant taxi drivers, they can carry pepper spray and have sprayed women in the face with it.

>>34914776
...irony is dead.

>>34912831
>but they must rise above the morons and criminals and bring them justice
no really, being tard-wranglers isn't police requirement and the courts are responsible for bringing them justice

>>34914682
The pauldrons are too small

>>34914748
That has only worked great so far because your Union has experienced an unprecedented wave of civility from its population during the post WWII decades. Which sadly is about to end since you promptly ruined it all by importing millions of third-worlders from the most savages countries on Earth.

>>34914825
...yeah and you have more problems with your own people than we do with completely foreign people....so....not seeing your point.

>>34914796
well at least owning pepper spray without a permit is no longer illegal (you still can't get them here without a permit, but technically if you manage to obtain one it's legal to own)

>>34914856
>...yeah and you have more problems with your own people than we do with completely foreign people
for now, enjoy while it lasts, it won't last long

>>34914803
and who brings them *to* the court to receive that justice? Pretty sure the post you quote was meant to say "bringing them *to* justice", at least it makes far more sence that way.

>>34914876
yeah, only lasted for 60 years.

Fuck off, armchair warrior and maybe consider getting your news from other sources than Breitbart, Infowars and /pol/.

>>34914860
That's nice to hear!

>>34914860
>>34914890
In all seriousness i give Finland ten years before it's america tier. Economy problems and social problems feed on eachother.

>>34914890
There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting news from Breitbart since pretty much all their headlines can be source to mainstream sources. You don't need to get buttblasted just because their political agenda is laser-focused on exposing the greatest civilization of Earth's history committing cultural suicide through white-man's guilt, intersectional feminism and batshit insane immigration policies. There won't be anyone left to laugh though once it happens.

>>34914960
>Superior Finnish Police apprehends a terrorist ALIVE within minutes
>Finnish bystanders chase a knife-fielding asshole

Yeah. We are cucked. Here, we understand the distinction between "waddafuck"-falseflag sites and reputable news sources. Breitbart ain't one

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>>34912029
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGBko4WdFzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUjAArcqaQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KSJXiul8kc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwSZm_S_8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Zv0adocSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqz4FYGRRbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETU4GVTvC4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TgFz3qmE9U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_dbVCQ4T8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2b5otNJJU8

>>34915341
well plenty of people seem to be buying the garbage MV-Lehti is pushing at them, even after they are told it's owned by a Russian businessman & they have ties to the rebels in Dumbass & rest of Eastern Ukraine

>>34915421
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGBko4WdFzg
Do Americans not know CPR?
That is taught in high-school here.

>>34915341
Only iltasanomat and cnn desu.

this is a terrible thread and OP

spurdo posting is better than this garbage.

>>34912466
>In Finland it is the doctrine.
Why do people just go on the internet and lie?

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I can actually buy Scandis aiming for limbs for two reasons: they probably average one police shooting a year and the suspect never shoots back.

Kudos on your criminals, and I hope you keep it that way, but that shit would get you killed here.

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Just posting a few images of finnish cops.

>>34912029
Because the lefties would protest "militarizing" our police.

>>34912394
>Pulmonary artery
>Leg

You might want to get that checked out.

>>34914748
citation needed

>>34914796

Do you understand that this shit is pushed by the leftists in office because people generally stick to themselves? It's the usual leftist agenda, but instead of the media pushing it as usual it comes from positions of power. IMHO, as a Finn, this is one of the greatest problems in our society. Everyone usually just minds their own business and submits quite willingly to authority, maybe because we have always been pushed around by more powerful entities (Empire of Sweden, Russia/USSR) in the past and non-compliance was met with harsh punishments.

But I'd like to point out that tattle-tailing in Finland is considered despicable and childish - especially among men. The FDF encourages people to sort things out among themselves and use peer superiors as mediators when necessary.

Also, especially young Finns are very IT-concious and things like OSINT forces most to watch their back online rather carefully. We know we are under cyber surveillance from both the east and the west, but we feign disinterest especially towards NSA because there is very little that we can do about it.

I somewhat agree with you about Finnish self-defense laws, but you make it sound like it's some sort of rapey dystopia where immigrants have more rights than indigenous Finns.

Conclusion: you probably hang around fags.

>>34915555
It's taught in high schools in America too.

>>34914796
>snitches get stiches
White trash

>>34913930
Decent. Good range of hot sauce. My vegetarian friend rates their Vege burgers highly too. Personally I prefer Friends & Brgrs. And they've now got one in Copenhagen which keeps me happy (moved from Helsinki last summer).

>shoot some retard with a knife vs magdump on some shithead with a gun
Europeans are so fucking sheltered its not even funny, only a European would talk about something they know so little about and act as if they were a fucking expert.

Because America is fucking huge

I'm not American, I know that. Anybody who isn't a complete moron knows that. It's just not possible to send every police officer through full schooling like that because there's millions of officers and only so many teachers. This isn't even a "lol Americans have to pay for blah blah blah and their schooling sucks" thing, it's the fact that there isn't enough teachers or even classes available to do this.

This doesn't happen up in Canada either, rcmp get their own training and they're sent off to somewhere in the country to go eat tim's and run your brother over while fucking with a phone in their car

>>34916551
Yep, that is basically the case.

>>34918536
They also have the worlds largest economy. And Id assume the US spends mor per policeman then the Scandi nations does.

>>34918536
Teachers are people.
As the amount of people increases so should teachers.
If scaling really is a problem divide the country into regions small enough that each can individually achieve the effect.

>>34917228
you would happen to have any pictures from the raid gear from the 60/70's?

Furhats and m/45s were cool as fuck

>>34912029
It was basically luck. The patrol was near the place when it happened. I can guarantee that response times are not normally that fast. I live here.

>>34912029
Anyone in a significantly developed law enforcement agency in the U.S. needs a degree to climb the leadership ladder these days.
Of course the standards are all over the place, but America is fucking huge so that's a bit difficult.

>>34918605
Finnish police didn't have anything similar to SWAT until after the mess in Munich so there was no raid gear in 60s

>>34912372
>in seconds

KEK

>>34914960
That's the most pathetic thing I've ever read.

>>34918675
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpb-mtjN9q8

Seconds HAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>34918605
not exactly 60s/70s but kek

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>>34912029
Good point, lobby for more police funding and for that funding to do towards education for our law enforcement.

>>34918536
Teachers? We don't give a damn about teachers in America just a bunch of fags complaining about teachers, that's fagmerica

>>34918675
>>34918728
what are you implying, that with all of the people who CCW on a daily basis an assailant like the kebab in Turku wouldn't be immediately gunned down by someone as soon as the suspect starts stabbing people?

>>34918052

That's mostly a nigger and spic thing.

>>34916551
>they probably average one police shooting a year
Between 2003-2013 Finnish police used their guns total 385 times
(includes just taking it out, threatening to use it, etc.), shot 122 times and killed 7 perps.
>suspect never shoots back
Rare but happens time to time, maybe once or twice a year.

>>34914796
Only thing that is true here is the illegal defense thing. Stop pushing your retarded "Europe is cucked xd" meme are legitimate you absolute retard. The whole tattle tailing thing isn't true in social culture, only in published media. How about you try actually taking an in depth look into the country from other sources than Stormfront articles about Finland.

t. Finn

>>34919248
So roughly 12 shootings a year, with 1 in 10 being fatal. I'm going to guess population density plays a big factor in those very low numbers. Any idea what percentage of those shootings were limb vs center-of-mass?

Also, does your federal government require documentation from local police forces on a fatal police shooting? This is something sorely lacking at either the federal or state level in the US, and I wish we'd fix it for statistics/analytics purposes alone.

>>34919308
>So roughly 12 shootings a year
12 shots fired a year

>>34919316
Sorry, when I said 12 shootings, I meant 12 police shootings, not criminal shootings. Or do you mean Finish police sometimes fire a warning shot into the asphalt?

>>34914609
but but but
two brown people helped the wounded and got wounded themselves
or maybe only one I can only remember that Hussain guy from Sweden
but yes brown people helped :((

>>34914789
>Well, two things, Finland doesn't have ghettos infested with savages and the state of California has probably 5 times more cops than Finland.

we aren't comapring the whole Cali to Finland, just LA, some statistics for comparison:

LA has a population of 3.9 million, Finland has a population of 5.3 million

LAPD had 10 000 sworn officers in 2015, Finnish Police has some 7 500 officers

so, LAPD has 33% more cops than all of Finland, has 1.4 million people less, and since Finnish cops seem to average some 12 shots fired a year & LAPD probably fires that many shots over a lunch break, something is definitely wrong...

>>34919338
>Sorry, when I said 12 shootings, I meant 12 police shootings
and I meant that in the 10 year period mentioned above the "shot 122 times" means 122 individual shots, not 122 cases where a gun was fired.

>>34919360
You just compared an entire nation of 340,000 square km to a city with 80% of the population shoved into 1200 square kilometers. What's the first logical conclusion you can draw from those numbers alone?

>>34919360
LAPD had to deal with more murders last year than the entire European Union.

>>34919308
Almost all are shot at limbs as the aim is to incapacitate not kill, it's only when they get surprised in close quarters or such situations that center-of-mass hits happen.

>m going to guess population density plays a big factor in those very low numbers
If you want to compare US to Finland try looking for statistics from Minnesota as the population size, density and ethnic diversity are nearly equal

>Also, does your federal government require documentation from local police forces on a fatal police shooting?
There is always an automatic investigation on use of force and each bullet fired needs to have had a justified reason for it.

>>34919404
A quick google shows Minnesota has averaged 7 fatal police shootings per year since '95. Their police also report an average of 10 police fatalities and 300 ambushes on officers a year, and I'm guessing Finland has nowhere near that.

> Automatic investigation
We have those here, but a big concern is they are neatly always done internally or by the local DA's office, which is an obvious conflict of interest.

>>34919397
are you saying LA cops are involved in shootings on daily basis because people can't handle the population of 4 million people & population density of 3,275.32/km2 in one city? Tokyo with their 9.2 million inhabitants & 6220/km2 density doesn't see shootings every day, and there most certainly is no shortage of armed criminals in Tokyo.

>>34919452
>and there most certainly is no shortage of armed criminals in Tokyo.

Yes there is. Armed criminals are infinitely rare in Japan, to the point where other criminals will discourage them from firearm ownership because it basically means death penalty. And Tokyo has a population of 36 million.

>>34918605
Finnish police officer in SF department Karhu had these in 70s
>Suomikonepistooli
>White helmet
>Lead played vests

>>34919452
Tokyo also has a very homogenous population and a nice Gini coefficient to match.

Obviously, your example shows that population density cannot account for the crime rate alone. But rural areas do not exhibit anywhere near the same crime rates as cities in the US, so pop. density is playing a factor.

You can run bivariate analysis on murder rates by state statistics in the US. Of all the various aggregates you look at, median income, state populations, non-violent crime rates, etc, only one shows a moderately strong correllation, low Gini coefficient.

This combined with our cities crime rates leads me to suspect that shoving large numbers of people with very diverse income levels into a small area leads to high violent crime. Hell, it could even just be poor people shoved into a small area, but the statistics for individual cities isn't there. Hence why I wish we collected those at the state or federal level.

>>34919470
>Armed criminals are infinitely rare in Japan
"armed" as in "owns gun(s) but doesn't necessarily carry on regular basis"

>And Tokyo has a population of 36 million.
I am talking about the city itself, not the whole metropolitan area.

>>34919508
If you genuinely believe criminals are armed or even have access to weapons in Tokyo then you need to lay off the animes.

>>34919514
The plural is anime you dolt

>>34914748
Finland is a homogeneous Nordic nation with extremely low violent crime rate. I bet this will start to change with the influx of migrants and attacks such as this one becoming more common.

>>34919547
If not, Finland needs to package up their integration strategy and sell seminars on the international market.

>>34919514
gun smuggling does happen in Japan, they might not have gangs with enough guns to arm a small nation, but that doesn't mean the Yakuza are unarmed.

>>34916445
It's a common practice in Finland for police to shoot a knife wielding suspects in the legs.

Easier to patch up and a lower chance of inflicting fatal wounds. They are there to stop and apprehend the suspect, not go and "neutralize" the threat.

U.S. police are poorly trained compared to their euro counterparts.

>>34919600
>Easier to patch up and a lower chance of inflicting fatal wounds.
Much easier to end up with a pass through and a ricochet as well, finn-bro. Ameriboos point is that if your shooting rate was as high as the US, your procedures would likely have to change, if only because your ambush rate would jump.

> U.S. police are poorly trained compared to their euro counterparts.
Having not worked in either country as a LEO, I have no data to dispute that.

>>34912719
Yet they often fire the tazer, decide that it wasn't enough and escalate to lethal force and pump seven rounds into the suspect.

Then they put cuffs on the dude and let him bleed out on the side of the street. Now, that's barbaric. And then you get people defending these outdated practices who go:

>"Oh but they deserved it, they committed a crime!"
>"I don't care, he should have followed orders!"

It's like the officers don't care about anything but their own safety.

>>34919648
>And then you get people defending these outdated practices who go:
>>"Oh but they deserved it, they committed a crime!"
>>"I don't care, he should have followed orders!"
>It's like the officers don't care about anything but their own safety.

Yeah, pretty much. We're working on it. That being said, if the attacker in Finland had been killed after attacking civilians and charging police with a knife, would Finland have prosecuted or otherwise disciplined the officer?

>>34919714
Probably not. There was actually a fatal shooting when a dude tried stabbing someone near a highway and the police had to put him down. For the most part if the law enforcement has good reason to shoot someone then they won't get penalized if they just acted in a reasonable manner.

>>34919626

Finfaggot is full of shit.

As an American cop I can tell you that 90% of agencies want you to have at least a 2 year degree, many want a 4 year degree. That is before the academy.

Now, once you pass your CPI and MMPI psych evals (a total of about 1400 questions), your PT test, your interview, your polygraph, and your background check, and assuming that you scored well enough on your written exam to warrant a spot in the academy (because agencies will often have magnitudes more applicants than slots) you are ready for the actual academy.

What comes next is 4-8 (depending on the agency) months of grueling bullshit and memorizing laws, escalation of force routines, hand to hand combat, marksmanship training, lots and lots of PT, more written exams, more memorization. If you are tough enough to survive the hell that is the academy you are ready for your FTO, where you will spend 6 months riding bitch with a corporal while he grades you on everything from your driving, personal interactions, arrests, radio traffic, to your fucking uniform and how much stubble you have. Hope that you are either good at your job or you have a lenient FTO because his final report will either get you a job or blackball you from that agency (and likely most other agencies in the area or state).

Assuming you've completed all if these above steps: congratulations, you have become a police officer! And in only 3-5 years of constant training and work! Now feel free to go do a totally thankless job while being shot at, stabbed, beaten, bludgeoned, hit by a car, having piss, shit, and AIDS blood tossed on you, working impossibly long shifts for 8 days at a time while making dick for pay, all the while having every member of the public fucking SHIT on you for any potential fuckups (real or imagined) while having the audacity to call you a useless, untrained, fat fucking pig.

>>34919867

Also, to further understand why I don't use my gun for less lethal shit: I have mace, a taser, and a baton I can all use for less lethal engagements, I am also trained in BJJ, so that is 4 less lethal methods to take down an opponent. I have one lethal option on me, which is my gun. Why the FUCK would I use my only lethal option in a less lethal capacity when I have 4 options for that? If I am using a gun that means I want or need lethal force and of I am deploying lethal force it will he fucking LETHAL. I will shoot you until you are dead.

This isn't Europe where only one in a thousand reasonable white folks have guns. These are the ghettos of America where every thug hoodrat has a problem solver stuffed in their waistband.

>>34919877
Purely out of interest what about other less than lethal stuff like beanbags and tear gas and so on?

>>34919867
>>34919877
Tell us how you really feel though, anon. Don't hold back.

Thanks for the on-the-job perspective.

>>34919867
So you have 4-8 months police training?

Here in germany its 36 months.

>>34919877
>if my less lethal options aren't enough I MUST try to kill the suspect
I think I may have misunderstood you

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>>34919920

It shows!

>>34919892

Depends on the agency. Most of the time situations develop too quickly to be able to go to your car, pull out a shotgun, load beanbag rounds, and pop someone. Most of the stuff like pepperballs, beanbags, and grenades all require special certifications and is used by the SWAT or Tactical team.

>>34919902

Oh amigo, we haven't even begun.

>>34919920

Can you read? 2 year degree plus on average 6 month academies plus another 6 month FTO. That is 4 years of education before being on your own, minimum.

>>34919947

Holy shit, I'm retarded and also tired, 3 years.

>>34919920
>>34919947
Does Germany count the 2 or 4 year degree in criminal justice towards overall training? Or is it 2-4 year degree plus 3 years academy?

>>34919902

Also, just today, literally less than 4 hours ago I had a dude toss a cup of piss mixed with shit on me. Fucking all over me, dude. Do you have any idea how hard it is to remain calm in that situation? That's the bullshit you deal with out on the streets. It isn't some happy funtime where you get to play billy badass in a cruiser all day like people want to pretend.

>>34919947
>2 year degree plus on average 6 month academies plus another 6 month FTO.
A 2 year degree in what?

>>34919947
>2 year degree
different anon, this means what, does, for example, 2 years of studying classic Greek literature count? Because unless that 2 year degree is police related it means jack-shit.

>>34919985
>>34919992

My degree is in Criminology.

The big 3 are Criminal Justice (how to be a cop), Criminology (how criminals think and how to analyze them), or Criminal Psychology (how to mentally break down and understand criminals).

Most agencies want "field related" degrees which generally means one of these three, the first 2 are the most common with Criminal Psychology being mainly for dudes that want to be negotiators and shit.

>>34912831
>They have a duty to try to preserve all life, even if the suspect is a moron.
DC vs Heller would like a word with you

>>34919973
The 36 months is for basic patroling troopers.

Higher ups have to study.

Do normal street cops have a 2 year degree in criminal justice in the usa? Why would they do such "low" work when they can have much better stuff with it?

>>34919992
To be fair if you spent two years reading classics I think they'd be quite impressed. That's not an easy task.

>>34912831

Fuck you, I'm going home at the end of my shift, whatever that entails.

>>34913589
Probably a tricked out Rk.62 due to the receiver profile

>>34920010

Yes, I'd say 90% of American beat cops have a degree. The answer to why we do it even though we have fucktons of training and could easily do private security for over twice what we make is easy: we legitimately love what we do and want to make a difference. That's why I do it. All I ever wanted to do, since I was a little kid, was to help people, you know? I get to do that every day of my life. It's both the most brutal and dehumanizing thing I've ever done and the most rewarding job in the world. I make peanuts but I'd never give it up.

>>34912029
The intersection of the thin blue line and rampantly safety minded policing.

Police logic:

1. all people are threats
2. all threats must be assumed to be of the most grievous variety.
3. officer safety is number one concern, after all everybody else is a threat(read: not a real person)

If police expect an active shooter/killer situation they'll cordon off the area and surround it while waiting for backup. Then they'll wait for swat. Then swat will try to negotiate. then if that doesn't work they'll probably breach when they start thinking the guys just executing hostages, unless he made some sort of nebulous and off the cuff claim of having the place "wired to blow". Then they'll just wait some more for a bomb squad.

It's funny because that kind of reaction is way overly cautious considering your average active shooter/killer situation. The vast majority have no armor, no quality training, and are literally too dumb to make a bomb in the first place. In fact it's arguable that your average active shooter poses less of a threat in a lethal force encounter than your average armed felon.

The armed felon is looking to fight it out with the police and die if necessary to stay out of jail.

The active shooter is looking to murder as many unarmed people as possible and then die(typically by suicide). Most do very poorly in firefights and they are known to immediately commit suicide when confronted by police instead of fighting.

this guy has a good write up on the subject:

http://www.forcescience.org/fsnews/97.html

>>34920010
LEO-anon and his co-workers can correct me if I'm wrong, but a 2 year degree in criminal justice isn't very applicable outside of law enforcement. You might swing a counseling job or something related with a 4 year degree in criminal justice, but all the people I know in that coursework intended to go police.

Also, not sure how it is in Germany, but corporate competition both domestic and foreign here is rough enough that 4 year degrees don't grant you access to "high" work either. Plenty of guys with 4 year degrees in Comp Sci are pushing data into Excel spreadsheets in the hopes that they get a shot at DBA, etc.

>>34920004
what does a case about constitutionality of a gun control law have to do with cops' duty to preserve all life?

>>34920062
>Comp sci
What about 5y masters of engineering?

>>34920062

If I walked right now I could take a PMC job, corporate security, or high profile bodyguard position and make 6 figures, easy. There is a rather large oil company that has offered me a significant amount of money to work one of their refineries.

A lot of washouts from academies go do this shit and make more than us, because SURPRISE! The private sector is always easier and always pays better.

>>34920044
>average active shooter/killer situation
Some guy running drugs for the last 4 years may have repeatedly ambushed his competition with a shitty .25acp and put 6 people in the ground. Meanwhile, Officer John shows up, with his range practice and force-on-force role play, and also has to assess the situation in real time while also adhering by escalation-of-force rules.

If Officer John doesn't treat his suspect with the caution and respect his threat level requires, then Officer John's widow collects his life insurance policy.

>>34920017
>Probably a tricked out Rk.62 due to the receiver profile
no it isn't, Rk 62 doesn't have a carry handle/picatinny rail extending from middle of receiver almost to the muzzle, plus the spare magazine is obvously not a 7.62x39mm AK magazine, that's quite clearly a 5.56x45mm NATO -rifle's magazine.

>>34920085
Dude, why? Put your decade of service in and take that 6-figure salary. If not for you, for your family.

If you feel that guilty, offer training to civilians so they have a much brighter view of the problems law enforcement faces.

>>34920090

To be fair if I got capped today my family would get a half million dollars. I'm literally worth more dead than alive.

>>34920017
>/k/
>can't tell the difference between G36 and 7.62 AK variant
get out

>>34920062
Well only around of 13% of german population have a university/higher education degree.

Its because we have a very high standart of vocational training.

I had to train 42 months before I was able to work as an industrial mechanic. Just a normal job. (Without the training and the "diploma" you are not allowed to work as a mechanic). Now, I get an additional 24 months of more advanced training to be an mechanical engineering technician. Never visited a collage.

>>34920084
Qualifies you for Chief French Fry Engineer at your local Scottish-themed restaurant.

>>34912501
Stop spouting memes you've heard on the internet like they apply to real life.

>See, if you want to use minimum force, why use a handgun
Youre conflating minimum force with minimum reasonable force in a situation. By using a handgun in the least lethal way(someone might even call it idk, a less lethal weapon at that point) You allow yourself the ability to transition to lethal force much more quickly than if you were using a dedicated less lethal weapon while still decreasing the chance that the suspect will die.

>The usage of a handgun, to me, says that you've already thrown the idea of "minimum force" away
Probs just because youre stupid.

>Tasers aren't some revolutionary newfangled idea
No, they're pretty old and they have several drawbacks. Specifically they are quite unreliable at stopping people and can also sometimes cause serious injury or death.

EX.

>man approaches LEO with knife in plain view
>LEO draws and gives orders
>if there is sufficient distance and the LEO feels comfortable with the prospect he shoots the individual in the leg
>guy stops and were good. guy keeps coming and you just keep shooting but aim COM.
>if he dies from the leg shot it's NBD because lethal force was already allowed given the situation.
On the other hand using a taser(particularly at closer distances) would expose the officer to a much higher chance of officer injury/death if less lethal means fail to stop the suspect.

real world example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVe7bx_CaSU&nohtml5=False

>>34912685
You forgot the part where he was ordered to stop going for the gun repeatedly while *Gasp!* still going for a gun.

>>34912719
>Using lethal force when not under a significant threat to life or limb is illegal.
Which is why using a handgun in a less lethal manner is typically perfectly fine if lethal force was called for in the first place. well, and you can prove that it was. Prosecutors gonna prosecute if they think they can.

>>34920098

One of my side jobs is CCW classes.

Also, I don't have a family, really. I have 2 brothers, a sister, and parents. My brothers are in high school and I happen to patrol our hometown so I get to keep my eye on them which is kinda cool, and I get to give them rides around in the cruiser. Fiancé left me because, again, surprise, working 12 hour night shifts 8 days in a row is fucking shit for everything that isn't drinking. Also empathy burnout. Empathy fatigue is really bad.

Let me run you through an actual conversation that I had with my ex, who was a part time barista at a Starbucks

>hey honey, how was your day?
>it was terrible
>oh? I'm sorry
>it's okay, I accidentally spilled this guy's coffee and be was super pissed and yelled at me for like 20 minutes in front of the whole store, and we were like super busy and it was just so shitty
>I'm sorry baby
>it's okay, how was your day?
>was alright I guess, worked a fatality car crash, dude wrapped his car around a pole doing 60, wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Looked like someone smeared raspberry jam all over the fucking road.
>oh... I'm so sorry...
>why?
>because you had to see that..
>what? Happens all the time
>you don't care that someone died?
>not really, I didn't know him
>Jesus, are you heartless?

Such is the life of a first responder. Now imagine how it went after I killed someone and you see why so many cops are single.

>>34920200
> you don't care that someone died?
> not really, I didn't know him

Jokes on her. Most guys have shitty empathy to begin with.

>>34920069
It's the context of that case. DC vs Heller states that it's not the main duty of the police to protect/defend you or the people around them, thus eliminating the perception of "duty to preserve all life" according to that judge. Their main job is to enforce the law, but that won't stop them from protecting civillians on the site both as a moral/expected responsibility and also due to the backlash from society regardless if they did well or not

>>34920165

As a cop, you're fucking retarded. If I am using lethal force I will use it until they are dead. Like I said, I've have lots of less lethal options and one lethal one.

As someone who has (unfortunately) had to kill someone in the line of duty, you cannot sit here and armchair quarterback this shit. You aren't there, you don't feel that adrenaline, you don't have the thoughts that I do. There is you, there is your partner, and there is this jackass with a rap sheet longer than the bible who has a weapon and is standing between you two and going home. Not only that but if I don't drop this guy now and he kills me, who else is he going to kill? Just me? Just my partner? Everyone watching?

>>34920165
>You forgot the part where he was ordered to stop going for the gun repeatedly while *Gasp!* still going for a gun.
complying with order to show ID while the cop is yelling at him to not go for his gun, the cop didn't tell him to stop moving, he specifically told him to not go for the gun, there's a difference.

>>34920227

She has a degree in fine arts and his now pregnant with a shaved head and unemployed. You tell me who gets the last laugh.

>>34920242
so civilians are a secondary concern to the cops making sure they themselves survive so they can enforce the law?

Do I have to say what this sounds like?

>>34920357
I mean, depends on the circumstances, if the asshole draws on the cop and starts shooting at him or charges him with a knife, then yeah he can fuck himself, he's bottom of the barrel. If the cop just gets trigger happy, then there's an issue.

>>34920357

The ruling was designed to set a legal precedent that you cannot hold cops accountable for being unable to save someone, because that is fucked up to legally punish someone for that.

Most cops put innocents above themselves. If we didn't we wouldn't do the job.

>>34920246
>If I am using lethal force I will use it until they are dead.

This. You make the decision to use lethal force and then you use lethal force. There is never a scenario where you decide to use lethal force, think about it and then not use it.

The decision happens in a split second, and the act of drawing, aiming and firing is entirely reflex. Due to adrenaline and stress levels, you literally have no capacity to reflect on or take in new information.

>>34920246
>If I am using lethal force I will use it until they are dead
Which is kinda the problem here. if a guy has a melee weapon and is approaching you in a fashion that doesn't put you in immediate danger then shooting to wound is totally viable.

Were not talking about sancho ambushing you as your clearing a crack house. We're talking about sancho walking up to you on the street with a knife in his had repeatedly shouting for you to shoot him, or shouting that he's going to kill you.

> you cannot sit here and armchair quarterback this shit. You aren't there
Clearly only the people involved in a situation could possibly have the ability to criticize their own choices. Sounds like the foundation of a reasonable and logical society to me. You suggest it's impossible to armchair quaterback a situation, then broadly apply platitudes to lethal force encounters, suggesting that they all call for a maximum amount of possible force regardless of the specific situation.

Your logical shortcomings, tongue in cheek racism, and inability to apply the standards you use for others to yourself truly make you the epitome of american style policing. thanks.

>>34912466
>>In Finland it is the doctrine.

source

>>34920452
>We're talking about sancho walking up to you on the street with a knife in his had

well gee I sure hope he doesn't stab me before I can get my gun out, I really hope this guy screaming at me in the street with a weapon out doesn't actually intend to hurt me so I can slowly aim and fire at a target that won't reliably stop him

I also hope he doesn't run and stab another innocent person, or take one hostage, because your leg shot at 10 yards on a 2 inch target missed because you were a dipshit

>>34920452

>racist
I bet I'm a bigot and a homophobe, too, right?

This is exactly the shit in talking about. Some faggot with no experience or education on the matter attempting to tell someone who has a total of 5 years of education and 4 years on the force to do this job specifically that I am not only shit at my job, but that I am a bad person.

I have nothing more to say except that you are the reason why cops hate talking to civilians.

>>34920491
so in your opinion the fact that someone is approaching you with a knife in their hand is good enough reason to shoot to kill because they *might* be planning on using the knife to kill you? If they were pallning to kill you wouldn't they be shouting something other than "shoot me!"?

>>34918246
http://friendsandbrgrs.com/en/
I got hungry.

>>34920541
*planning to kill you

>>34920541

In my opinion I am willing to kill someone who is aggravated, armed, disobeying direct orders, and is an obvious threat to me or the people around us.

Also, in most cases a taser would be used here because you always deploy less lethal under lethal cover, so if someone hits him with a taser and he doesn't go down and tries to stab me, someone else can drop him. I have literally seen this happen more than once. Your idea that somehow everyone with a knife gets shot and killed is silly.

I should also bring up that if I shoot someone and they are down and obviously no longer a threat, I will attempt to keep them alive by using my IFAK, because it is also a requirement to be EMT-B certified to be a cop.

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>>34920541
>someone approaching you brandishing a knife
>this is not threatening or dangerous at all
anyone else smell fish?

>>34920491
>>34920491
>well gee I sure hope he doesn't stab me before I can get my gun out
not even a relevant point

>I really hope this guy screaming at me in the street with a weapon out doesn't actually intend to hurt me
Ok

>so I can slowly aim and fire at a target
Would you not normally aim? The thighs/pelvic region are a larger target than the thoracic triangle is anyways... Acceptable accuracy for SD is broadly accepted as being open fist sized groups, if you can't manage that then your just bad.

>I also hope he doesn't run
That'd be pretty great desu

>stab another innocent person, or take one hostage, because your leg shot at 10 yards on a 2 inch target missed

Problems with statement:

1. hollywood tier plus not my problem if he runs off and attacks someone else.

2. Who the fuck has a thigh , let alone pelvic region that's a 2 inch target?

3. assuming the other persons argument if defacto invalid because writing that youre right makes you more right, right?

>>34920501
>mentally masturbates about how if he ever began to employ lethal force, regardless of what happens he's going to kill the individual.
>describes his archetypal enemy as a "thug" with a rap sheet a mile long who live in the ghetto and carries a "problem solver"
>totally not an AAVE slang term

You might as well stop trying to be coy and start calling them urban youths.

>>34920600

Listen, idiot. I am a cop. I patrol a poor area. These are the people I see every day. This isn't some abstraction or mental masturbation, this is literally what people like me go through to protect pussies like you so you can shit on people like me for doing our jobs.

Whether it's Jamal, Tyrone, Jose, Jorge, Cletus, or Jimbob, they all have rap sheets and they all are packing. This is my reality. Once you get shot at a couple times maybe you will understand.

Also the poor area I patrol is like 70% white so most of them are redneck meth addicts packing old ass fuddgats and Ruger P89s. Stop implying shit because you literally know nothing about what you're saying.

>>34920600
>>34920644

Also, another thing, read my other posts, I already have had to kill someone, so this isn't masturbation.

The reality is killing people sucks, and I have to live every day for the rest of my life knowing that I was the direct cause of someone else dying. That was someone's son, brother, uncle. It's fucking sad and I pray, with my entire being, that you never have to experience that pain, and I find it disgusting that you would ever imply that I enjoy killing people, because that couldn't be further from the truth.

>>34920644
>Whether it's Jamal, Tyrone, Jose, Jorge, Cletus, or Jimbob, they all have rap sheets and they all are packing. This is my reality
hmmmm, 4/6 "ethnic" names, or roughly 67%

>the poor area I patrol is like 70% white so most of them are redneck meth addicts packing old ass fuddgats and Ruger P89s
Wait but i thought your reality was darkies with gats poppin em at you? not white people with gats? if it's white people then why are you so fixated on this "reality" of dangerous armed darkies?

>this is literally what people like me go through to protect pussies like you so you can shit on people like me
Well, frankly between your semi closeted racism, consistent attempts to escalate this conversation, want to escalate situations IRL, and general holier than thou attitude im thinking that the boys in blue would be better off if you just resigned along with the rest of your toxic kind. Youre either a bad apple or part of the bunch that's been spoiled by them, can't wait for the day you make headlines for shooting a black guy who "was totally reaching for his waist".

>>34920703

You're a troll, you have to be. There is literally no other option.

>ethnic
>toxic
>racist
>bad apple

Yeah. Kudos. Gotta give you props, amigo, you kept the charade going for a hot minute.

>>34920589
you have said several times that when you pull your gun on a suspect you will kill the suspect, make up your damn mind will you?

>>34920716
>>34920716
you're not entirely wrong, the moment you said you were a cop i knew you would be an easy mark.

They're almost always so used to being able to intimidate or virtue signal they're way through discussions by virtue of their office that it makes getting them all huffy and puffy over the internet child's play.

Really gets the old noggin joggin as to how you handle situations that annoy you in real life too.

>>34920748
whoops, they're --> their.

>>34920740

Literally didn't say that.

Lethal force is distinctly different than lethal cover. That being said it's not like it matters since you're just trying to be a memetastic trollmaster.

>>34920748

Nah amigo, not upset, I just want people to legitimately understand the bullshit that we go through. Not to mention that today was exceptionally shit. I mean, I literally had a dude throw piss and shit on me. Piss. And. Shit.

How was your day?

>>34920595
never said it wasn't threatening or dangerous, I was trying to make sure I had understood him correctly, to me his repeated statements that when he draws a gun on a suspect he's going to kill that suspect sounds like he'd go from verbal commands straight to "kill with extreme prejudice" without batting an eye, in contrast a Finnish cop would issue verbal comamnds, draw the gun, issue more commands, then shoot to wound and only if that doesn't work shoot to kill.

>>34920760
>>34920748
>Autistic Anon
and not even the smart kind

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I'd like to add to the discussion the fact that (almost all) finnish police officers have done 6-12 months conscription.

>>34920806

And a lot of US cops have done 4 years of active duty with combat tours.

>>34920780
IDK man, according to the anons in this thread something like that would result in you magically being stabbed before you can draw, the suspect teleporting back to 10yds, you missing a shot at his 2" thighs, and then him running away and taking hostages or teleporting to your house and murdering your family.

No way you could like, just decide after going for your gun to pop a shot at his thigh/pelvis before mag dumping on his chest. That's movie shit.

>>34920773
>Literally didn't say that.
I have been replying to you under the assumption that you are the cop who said:
>If I am using a gun that means I want or need lethal force and of I am deploying lethal force it will he fucking LETHAL. I will shoot you until you are dead.

if that's not you I apologise, it's nearly impossible to keep track of how many cops with similar POV are commenting here so I have been going by "does this guy sound like the same guy who said X?"

>>34920816

You are trolling or don't understand escalation of force. Either way I'm too tired to explain it again. You use less lethal under lethal cover. Isn't hard to understand.

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>>34920811
But do you have police reindeer?

>>34920826

I said that, but lethal cover is not lethal force. What is hard to understand about that?

>>34920828
And then if the less lethal fails or isn't available you mag dump on their chest instead of trying to shoot in the legs or pelvic region regardless of circumstance because "muh liebilities"

Because real life isn't like in the movies and the fact that other people have done that very thing successfully, even in a habitual fashion, should have no influence on your world view at all.

>>34920871

Listen stupid, if I need to kill someone I use my gun. If I don't want to kill them I use something that's not my gun. I'm not retarded enough to try and use a gun as a beanbag shotgun.

>>34920852
>>If I am using a gun that means I want or need lethal force and of I am deploying lethal force it will he fucking LETHAL. I will shoot you until you are dead.
you denied having said that when you draw your gun on a suspect you will kill the suspect, then you immediately admit to having said that & spout some shit about "lethal cover"? I don't even know what "lethal cover" is, left alone have commented on it, why bring it up?

>>34920892
>If I don't want to kill them I use something that's not my gun.
so if/when your less lethal means prove inadequate & backup is still minutes away, then what? Draw your gun & shoot to kill?

All the Americans who think that using a firearm is always lethal force, you have outdated information. Warning shots are allowed. And once you accept that a gun may be used in a less than lethal fashion, there's nothing preventing the use of wounding shots.

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/28/520826667/police-warning-shots-may-be-in-for-a-comeback

What you can argue is whether shots to extremities are an effective technique and whether they should be employed, but given that euro cops have had success with them, I think it at least deserves a proper discussion. Can you really claim that there is absolutely no chance that a wounding shot can be effective while not presenting a danger to thr public?

>>34920943
>shoot to kill
Nobody (well, nearly nobody) does this, anon. You shoot to stop the threat. Dying is an unfortunate side effect.

>>34921019
>Nobody (well, nearly nobody) does this, anon. You shoot to stop the threat. Dying is an unfortunate side effect.
I quote:
>If I am using a gun that means I want or need lethal force and of I am deploying lethal force it will he fucking LETHAL. I will shoot you until you are dead.

>>34921041
And I'm telling you he's being hyperbolic. If the suspect is down, he's not going to execute him by shooting him in the back of the head.

>>34921041
>it's another episode of /k/, edgy internet opinions vs rational judgement vol CXVII

>>34921091
ahh, different anon, carry on then

>>34921112
we are only at volume 117? I am disappoint

>>34920999
This. Euro cops have better education and better training than 99% of US cops and /k/ommandos, so I'd rather trust them than someone on 4chan.

ITT:
>anons regurgitate outdated shoot to kill philosophy that was only ever a thing due to civil liability
>try to repeatedly construct bizarre arguments to "show" you how shooting to wound is extremely dangerous to do
>pretend to be police officers to justify their opinions
>completely ignore the fact that shooting to wound is used habitually over seas and occasionally in the US already, with acceptable results and in the exact situations the thread is about

Oh man, it's another thread full of LARPers who only know how to repeat tactical brand tactical platitudes they heard from their favorite youtube personality, what a surprise

>>34920999

> Warning shots
Cool if it works out.

>Can you really claim that there is absolutely no chance that a wounding shot can be effective while not presenting a danger to the public?

If you've got the time to focus on breathing, keep your heart rate down, and take an aimed shot, you can probably pull it off, assuming the target isn't moving quickly. This all sounds very best-case-scenario, but no, I can't claim there is no chance that it wouldn't be effective.

If it's an ambush scenario where you're sucking down so much adrenaline that your pupils are fully dilated, you aren't going to even be able to make the front sight post on your pistol. Point shooting and leg shots don't mix.

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>>34918741
pahoin_pidella

>>34921285
>>If it's an ambush scenario
>the thread started with a link to a case that couldn't be much farther from an ambush scenario
>literally only the "shoot to kill" -faction is talking about ambush scenarios
>someone clearly asks a question about scenario similar to the one in OP
>yet another "shoot to kill" -advocate starts explaining an ambush scenario

>>34921285
But that's the thing, just because you have an option to use a leg shot doesn't mean you always have to go to it. Similarly, just because you have OC spray doesn't mean you have to always spray them before you whack them with a baton. Yes, sometimes magdumping to center mass is the right tool for the job, but at the times when it isn't, a shot to an extremity just might be, and the technique deserves to be there for those situations. Right tool for the job, anon. Not every problem is a nail, and you don't just have a hammer.

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>>34921910
knock knock anon

>>34921956
This

>>34914789
>Finland doesn't have ghettos
theyre beginning to form in east/north helsinki

>>34919600
Why are you "patching up" some shitskin terrorist
Put him in the grave and save some money.

>>34922614
Because:
1) It's not the job of law enforcement to be the judge, jury, or executioner. Their job is to apprehend suspects so they can be judged in a fair and speedy trial.
2) By getting him alive, they stand to gain intelligence from questioning him.

>>34918839
>>34918052
Its none autistic faggot thing. If you have a problem with someone you should first try to resolve it with them before getting some bigger entity to intervene. And everyone knows there are a bunch of laws that are not ethical. People write laws not gods so they are imperfect.

>>34920806
>intti larp fest prepares people for real world policing

>>34922666
More or less this. I didn't bother with my conscription, and after seeing what kind of incompetent trash as shooters most people who've done their stint in the FDF are, I'm pretty sure I made the right call there.

>>34922636
> It's not the job of law enforcement to be the judge, jury, or executioner.
Stupid comment, it's a fucking murderer caught red handed
>2) By getting him alive, they stand to gain intelligence from questioning him.
He's a muslim, we all know the whole story, you don't need any "intelligence" or to question him.

>>34922683
>Stupid comment, it's a fucking murderer caught red handed
And how exactly does that change anything?
>He's a muslim, we all know the whole story, you don't need any "intelligence" or to question him.
That's retarded.

>>34922683
>>34922614

This is why US lost in Vietnam

>>34922711
IDK what this has to do with us not nuking north vietnam into a bunch of glass-paddys to make an example to all the other SEA countries, anon

>>34922696
>And how exactly does that change anything?
He is not a Finn, he is a foreign terrorist
He has no rights, he is not entitled to anything, he has killed Finns, he deserves immediate death.

>That's retarded.
Whats retarded? What intelligence could POSSIBLY be gained by some muslim telling us the obvious, that he killed infidels due to his religion?

>>34921956
> Someone clearly asks a question about scenario similar to the one in OP
> Agree with them in this case, explain that it's not universally applicable
> People still pissy

There is no pleasing you people. If I tell you the Finns should be the model for Baltimore, will you go away?

>>34922746
I actually went and wrote a proper response, but you know what? I'm not even going to bother to submit it. You're retarded, and stop shitting up the thread.

>>34922748
The issue is not that you disagree, it's that you throw about strawmen and red herrings and then throw a hissy fit when people call you out on it.

It doesn't have to be universally applicable. Nobody ever made the claim that it is universally applicable. You on the other hand seem to be making the claim that since it can't work in one situation, it can't work in any situation, which is absolutely bonkers.

>>34922812
>You're retarded
The only retard here is you, who think a foreigners rights & privileges are more important than your own nation
Thats the problem with the west, retards who view treason as a noble thing.

>>34922018
>Right tool for the job, anon.
I agree, just get all that as best you can in writing for the department. Otherwise, lawyers are going to tell you that a leg shot was required in 100% of the cases.

>>34922812
> it can't work in any situation, which is absolutely bonkers.

Agreed. Sorry I wasn't clear.

>>34922845
Fair enough then, we seem to agree.

>>34922870
>MFW he actually agrees with you instead of Muh inteds to be lethals and I'VE ACTUALLY HAD TO SHOOT PEOPLE

wow man, maybe i really should stop being such an autistic asshole about things