Why aren't electronic triggers a thing? All you would

>>34908152
>battery dies
>gun becomes awkwardly shaped club.

>>34908152
i think some very high end rifles do, but they died out. There was some remington 700 version with an electric trigger and electric priming system. I cant remember what it was called though

>>34908152
Remington Model 700 EtronX

>>34908162
>accidently trip
>gun discharges without even needing to fall because of "lightest" trigger

>>34908162
>solar power that shit
>power doesn't matter in any reasonable way anymore

if it works for optics it can work for triggers

>>34908164
I remember now. Check out this Forgotten Weapons vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qP6Q9ZEsEo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPWuyP5AwTk

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they were a thing.

an expensive, poorly implemented, poorly marketed, and overall poor attempt at a thing.

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Because gun owners are irrationally afraid of anything electronic and don't know how any of it works.

>>34908194
theres no point really to having an electric trigger. a good aftermarket hair trigger will get the job done

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2 Primary reasons: one practical, one legal.

Electronics at the moment simply aren't going to have any real benefit that could possibly offset the massive trade offs with reliability and durability over a pure mechanical solution.

Now there have been experiments both in the civlian market and military world but in general technology has to take a massive leap forward to use electronics in existing firing mechanisms or there has to be some technology requiring electronics that counter-balances those trade offs.

The other part is the legal issue. In the US at least the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch has declared all fly-by-wire and in general most electronic triggers defacto illegal machine guns. Only way to avoid this issue is to use a solenoid or similar setup which knee caps any aspiring inventor or hobbyist lacking an FFL07 with a Type 2 SOT to go with it.

>>34908194
This is also a major factor, and the "smart gun" bullshit over the last few years has amplified the situation. At this point magnetically-stabilized super-heat helium (Plasma rifles) or Railguns would have to come into existence in a man portable configuration.

>/k/ 2050
>300 post debates over the merits of rubber dome and mechanical Cherry Blue triggers
>l33t operators pop out their triggers and replace them with IBM Model M switches
>suddenly fudd shows up with an antique Geissele and waxed poetic about the good old days

Guys I have seen the future

>>34908152
Electronic switches wear just like any other mechanical mechanism, it would still need a lot of maintenance and precision design to function consistently over the trigger's lifetime

>>34908205
This. For normal, non gimmicky shooting purposes it's not needed. Now something like a 3 ring .22 revolver that holds 20+ rounds it may make sense to allow it to shoot incredibly fast with no moving action other than the cylinder.

>>34908194
I work in jets and I've seen $9,000 dollar switches fail out of the box brand new.

>>34908152

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh0Z6ooZ-v0

because the guvmint can disable your weapon with their radio waves.

>>34908215
>ATF's Firearms Technology Branch has declared all fly-by-wire and in general most electronic triggers defacto illegal machine guns
This is complete bullshit and even the ATF says it's bullshit. There were several designs sold in the past and are still some being sold. Market factors have led to electronic triggers never seeing much popularity.

>>34908258
should've gotten them from foxconn

>>34908278
I'd probably only ever own a bullpup with one.

Figure if I'm going to meme, I'm going full meme.

>Having a bullpup with a better trigger than literally any AR

There's absolutely a market for it, but it'll have to be done by a ammunition manufacture to ever gain traction.

>>34908165
Not comparable. I'm talking about electronically operated strikers though getting rid of the primer is the next logical step.

>>34908168
>Using gun in dense forest, inside a building, or at night.
>lol no bullets 4 u

>hold on guys, I gotta charge my gun!

>>34908152
>Solenoid
Motherfucking magnet to the outside. Gun either disabled or enabled.

>>34908409
could make for the safest holster EVAR

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>>34908425
Ayy, didn't think of it like that.

>>34908220
I've hit the keys on my keyboard more times than a thousand average shooters would shoot in a lifetime and they still work. Implemented correctly, reliability would not be an issue.

>>34908409

>Be enemy
>develop magnetic chaff canon
>By 'chaff canon' I mean a 40mm filled with bucky balls
>Fire into enemy formation
>Half the enemy guns won't fire
>other half going off on full auto while soldiers panic
>Win battle because of mass unintentional friendly fire

>>34908162
If an aim point sight can stay on for 20 years full power a small trigger that uses a miniscule power burst could probably last 50

>>34908517
10 tops and that's assuming they only neurotically click it when the rifle is disassembled or the chamber is empty and that it's never dropped.

>>34908258
Consumers don't always purchase the lowest bidder like our companies do, aerospacebro

>>34908152
>simple solenoid
>simple
>solenoid
"I will use a tiny coil gun to fire my chemical gun"
said no one, ever

>>34908517
There's a big difference between a tiny LED and having to slam a firing pin over and over into rounds hard enough to make them go boom

>>34908617

You have no idea how an electronic trigger works, do you?

>>34908517
real life example, this trigger uses a 9V.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/19/electronic-arms-1022-bullpup-electric-trigger/

>Based on the voltage and discharge rate of the battery they estimate you should be able to get around 10,000 shots from a quality battery.

>>34908152
FOPA

One benefit which wouldn't currently apply to civilians is almost arbitrary burst and full automatic fire settings, just have a microcontroller signal the trigger mechanism however you choose.

>>34908457
As stated before, your fat finger pressing a key switch and a firing pin igniting a round are very different stresses. See >>34908617

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>>34908617
>>34908852
Do you guys even understand how guns work? Triggers don't cock the firing pin or push it forward, they simply release whatever mechanism is used to hold the firing pin and spring in the cocked position. The firing pin is pushed into the primer by a spring, it has nothing to do with the trigger.

>>34908464
Eh-welp! That's the thread, folks! Hope you all had a good time. I know I did. Goodnight!

>>34908167
>Wandering about with your safety off
>Dropping your weapon

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of how their weapons function could repair their weapon with current, mechanical designs (and spare parts, of course). However, what if a circuit board snaps, if a solenoid breaks, if a soldered connections cracks, a wire chafes and shorts? Are you an electronics technician or an electrician?

>>34908852
>>34908922
You two are dumb as rocks. The switch/trigger completes a circuit which activates the solenoid, driving a firing pin into the primer remotely.

This has nothing to do with cocking the weapon. The solenoid would remove hammers and springs entirely from fire control group.

>>34908966
Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of electronics could repair that as well
>switch, battery, and solenoid
There shouldn't be any PCB.

>>34908358
>Using gun in dense forest, inside a building, or at night.

How does my Citizen Eco-Drive watch continue to work for weeks shut up in a drawer, Anon?

>>34908990

You still compare a fucking tiny LED to a solenoid power consumption?.

Tesla is screaming on his tomb.

>>34908990
>The switch/trigger completes a circuit which activates the solenoid, driving a firing pin into the primer remotely.

Why the actual fuck would you do that when you could attach the solenoid to the spring catch? Using a solenoid in place of the spring is stupid as shit.

>>34908165
Etron means shit in French, kek, coincidence? You decide...

>>34909180
>he thinks this survives the muhreen test of serviceability

Being a gun owner doesnt imply you know the underlying mechanics of the piece. The fact that smart gun development has been a shitshow is astonishing given the maturity of the technology.

I guess same applies to electronic triggers. Plus there is the aspect of if it aint broke, dont fix it.

>>34908215
>The other part is the legal issue. In the US at least the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch has declared all fly-by-wire and in general most electronic triggers defacto illegal machine guns.

Post ATF letter or GTFO.

>>34908464
>40mm fired into formation
>biggest problem is effects on small arms

This seems suspect

>>34909219
this faggot isn't lying, except "étron" means more "a turd" or "a specifiic lump of shit" rather than "shit" (the abstract material in general, as opposed to a lump of it).

>>34909200
Because your watch doesn't have an actuator that has to apply enough force to drop the hammer and/or cock it back in case of double action

>>34909200
because it's powered by your homo radiation

>>34908990
Why wouldnt you just replace/actuate the sear with a solenoid?

>>34909268

In my head I meant firing like an airburst over their heads.

But sure, why not both? Magnetic shrapnel!

>>34909299
Chuckled

>>34908152
Reliability, I'm guessing.

>>34909213
>I have never heard of transistors/FETs, the post

>>34908409
The only thing required to prevent this is a soft iron sheet, which reroutes the magnetic field around the solenoid. These are standard in sensors and other technical stuff, require zero maintenance. The only problem is rust, which is why you would need to encase them in epoxy resin or something. A standard process for automotive electronics.

>>34908284
Why does the ATF say it's bullshit? They prohibit firearms easily converted to full auto.
The only example I've seen was a bolt action remington. This avoids the issue because the user has to manually cycle the rifle. But a semi-automatic with an electronic trigger could easily be converted to full auto.

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Sokenouds are not the only actuators. How about a firing system like this:
The trigger is mechanical to give good tactile feedback and can be adjusted to the person using it. Instead of releasing the bolt directly, it has a sensor of some kind, maybe even optical to have zero mechanical influence. As a trigger pull is detected, the 'high' voltage circuitry is fired up to power a piecoelectric stack actuator, which drops the sear and allows the bolt to go forward. It only needs to drop the sear for some milliseconds, hence the power circuitry is only active and consuming power in this phase. Logic can be directly powered by a small battery or be enabled by the sensor. Picture is a PZT cristal. No magnetic effects at all, just electrostatic.

>>34908152
I've actually seen one at a bench-rest competition before. The owner said it was a 1.8oz trigger and it used two 9v batteries to move an extremely light firing pin. The only spring on the entire rig was for the extractor.

>>34908152

>rip out trigger switch
>get old controller with turbo switch
>wire to gun
>hide turbo button so it's only a machine gun when atf isn't looking

The one advantage over a mechanical system is the reason the atf will never let it happen.

>>34909499
The ATF only cares about one trigger pull equalling one shot, they don't give a fuck how the trigger works as long as it's only semi. They have published multiple opinion letters to this effect and absolutely zero that say electronic triggers are banned.

>>34908215
You're retarded. There are plenty of .22 LR target pistols with electronic triggers.

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>>34910605
>wire 4 turbo buttons into your rifle

electronics are easy to fry. I mean a drop of water gets into the circuit, could ruin the entire circuit. Water gets into mechanical system? Nothing happens. Will need to clean and dry it later, but nothing immediate happens.

>>34908162

a crank can solve that problem

>>34908152
>All you would need is a simple solenoid
That could get damaged to shit, wet, overheat, snap, fry, etc.

>and switch to deliver the lightest, crispest trigger anyone could want
>*drops gun*
>Guh, I BLEW MUH DICK OFF
We don't need a Sig. Also, lightest doesn't mean best.

>immune to dirt and debris
Cause sand, water, mud, oil, liquid, some other shit, literal shit, and other material can't get trapped in either the button or in the gun

>eliminates the need for precision machining and complex linkages
The machines do it fast and cheap. Bubbah does it all the time.

>frees up design constraints
By creating even bigger ones.

>and could make bullpups actually good
You can get good bullpup triggers without doing the electro fail.

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>>34908168
>>34913630
>gun gets violently smacked against something dense, like a kebab's head
>battery is now leaking black goo/fuming/combusting

What do?

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I was thinking of using electric ignition for a muzzle loading flintlock. A small switch attached to a 9v with wires running to the flash pan. If that's not enough to ignite the powder then using Christmas tree lights, each bulb could be overloaded to burn out the filament and ignite the powder. So you just slot in a bulb/filament like you would a primer.

Just a little thought I had.

>>34913713
actually anon, it's nota "real" gun, but paintball guns do just fine with very precise electronic triggers, that can get dropped, thrown , wet, sandy, basically anything can happen to them and they're fine.
But you're FUCKED when they run out of batteries mid-fight.

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>>34908218
As a mechanical keyboard autist oh god please

>>34913792

a crank and a capacitor

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ITT: the same fudds who dismissed electro optics due to muh reliability

>>34908167

Require a two button press, where the second button is within the trigger.

Basically copy the glock trigger safety design
Simple.

Button

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but what if there's a magnet on the bolt and coil on the frame so it charges the battery whenever it's shot

>>34913929
Congrats, you're now sitting in the middle of a firefight with a crank and a capacitor because you broke your battery. But now you got five insurgents rushing your position, now what?

>>34914021
ITT: People can't figure out the difference between an attachment and an integral part of the gun.

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>>34914170
Check out that settlement that needs our help, of course

>>34914169
Better idea. Piezoelectric wafers in the stock so it recharges with recoil and walking around with it.

>>34914187
And the recoil spring uses regenerative braking!

Nigga we might get a net positive energy at this rate

>>34914170

git gud is what I do

if russians could defend themselves with sticky bolt actions then you can probably defend yourself with a quick crank

>>34908152
They kinda are a thing on tracking point guns, but that does something a bit more useful for hitting the target than just changing how the trigger feels.

>>34914185

I first saw the idea of a crank powered lasergun in Futurama.

>>34914197
The military humored the idea before, but power output is too low unless we are talking a electronic trigger.

Shit, if you could work out power consumption and put in an NO pressure switch on the hand gaurd, you could run a PEQ system through it too,

>>34909444
How would they set off a primer?

>>34909213
>>34908990
What about using a spark to set off special primers?

>>34910624
Wrong. They prohibit open bolt semiautos with mechanisms that are easily converted to full auto.

>>34914185
You settlement got ass raped by super mutants. The Minutemen lost to a giant shrimp.

>>34914208
A Mosin doesn't need a crank and a capacitor.

>>34914394
That would require market acceptance of an entirely new cartridge and that's not happening.

>>34908330
why is it not comparable? It's an "electronic trigger", no?

Also
>what is digitrigger

>>34908233
How's the cylinder gonna move.

>>34914170
Be like Fry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tNJeS6O6ds

Nothing can beat the reliability of a time-tested machine

>>34908162
>battery

Peizoelectric trigger - pressing the trigger creates charge that releases the hammer that strikes the firing pin and sets off the primer that swallowed the old lady who ate a bullet.

Paintball guns have electronic triggers. When I was big into that they had lots of problems. Switches would break, wire would break, batteries would die. In a firearm application I imagine the recoil would damage the electronics. Electronics are sensitive to the elements and require shielding which further complicates things.

Electronic triggers on firearms offer zero advantages.

>>34914779
That's probably only on higher end models, so your trigger doesn't have to have the really long pull it takes to actuate the valve, and feels more like an actual gun trigger. I've used one that didn't have any electronics.

Why don't they just use the excess gas to spin a windmill to generate electricity to power the electric modor to cycle the gun and also charge your lasers an sheeiit.

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>>34908152

>>34914829

Not a bad idea actually - most guns vent excess gas without extracting work from the vented gas.

You could make a powersuit that is powered by shooting.

>>34908181
No that's for electronically primed ammo you fucking mongoloid. We are talking the trigger mechanism alone.
>1st grade reading comprehension/10

>>34908152
Ignore the fudds. IDK why we don't have them but we damn well should.

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>>34914758
The piezoelectric generator (or more likely a dynamo or actuator) would require a fair bit of force to operate than you would want. One of the advantages of an electronic trigger is a much lighter weight and that negates it.

>>34914829
Why not replace the main spring on a semi-auto with a strong magnet at the end of a piston and have a coil behind it? Basically a reverse solenoid. Gun fires and gas pressure forces piston back. The magnet generates a current in the coil as it moves, which generates an opposing magnetic force against the piston, slowing, then reversing it. The power is used to charge a capacitor, and when the piston reaches the end of its cycle the circuit switches the now charged cap out for a resistor to limit the current. You'd probably want a weak spring in there, but you could harvest power for other things.

I'm a little hesitant, though. The capacitor would discharge slowly over time, and magnets have a tendency to degrade when they get hot. But I wonder if it would be possible.

Shitty 10000 hours of MS Paint drawing related.

I seem to remember TrackingPoint released a trigger group that integrated some cool image processing stuff that let you mark a target through their scope, then pull the trigger. The sear wouldn't drop until you were on target with the trigger pulled. Got to try a demo at SXSW a few years back and it was neat, though not sure how practical it would be. Probably not at all, but it's an interesting concept.

>>34908258
>He doesn't know that certified aerospace parts are ridiculously over priced.

>>34914821
You're a paintball fudd.

Since the early 2000s any gun worth a shit has an electronic trigger with an 80g or less pull weight.

Could you make an electronic trigger feel roughly similar to a real firearm? I'm sure someone could. But why would you? All it does is solve zero problems and instead introduces a shit load of new issues.

>>34915403
Sounds perfect for the firearms industry

>>34915422
No, like you have no idea how stupid maintenance and parts are for aircraft with an airworthiness certificate.

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>>34908152
Electronic triggers have been a thing for decades. They're mainly used in competition target pistols today, but lately several options for the AR15 have been hitting the market.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/10/foghorn/coming-soon-electronic-ar-15-trigger/

>>34911108
Start naming them.

>>34915562
The post above yours.

>>34914021
Shit nigger. I bet you ignore the concept "back-up" sights huh. Let me know when they invent a "back-up" trigger and then we can talk.

>>34915604
For the hell of it I started thinking about how to create a backup for an electronic trigger and I've come to the conclusion it wouldn't be pretty. Primary point of failure would probably be either the power source or the transducer (assuming it fired standard ammunition). Power source would be easy enough to have a backup for; just stick a generator behind the trigger and allow for a mode with a heavier pull that would translate the excess to electricity instead of just actuating a switch.

But whatever you use as a transducer (the thing that converts electricity to mechanical energy) would be a bitch to have a backup for. You would essentially have to have an entire backup action in parallel.

>>34915777

see>>34915078

>>34908152
>>34908152
Susceptable to:
> impact damage
>EMP
>shorting
>water/corosion
>Required Depot level armorer to repair/replace.

Electrical ignition systems are used in many autocannons (20mm, 25mm, 30mm etc.) but it's hard to beat a good steel/aluminum trigger group for an infantry weapon.

>Tough
>Easily replaced in the field (assuming you packed or can obtain spares)
>Easily repaired by company armorer
>cheap
>solid state technology that is immune to EMP.

>>34908168
>>34908358
>>34913792
Piezio-electric ignition trigger, similar to the ignition button on any gas grill. No battery or solar power required.

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>>34915604
>>34915777

Could just have a small peice of string in a hidden chamber inside the gun, main trigger breaks, open compartment, pull string for bang.

Think of it as the rifleman's tampon.

>>34916000
Like I said, a bitch to design. The auto cannon has the bonus that it's built around a large motor to feed it, so essentially you're plugging into that. Wouldn't work well with an infantry rifle.

>>34916014
Most electronics are a lot less susceptible to EMP than you would expect. Generally power systems and microprocessors would be most impacted. Electric firing mechanisms could be made to resist the pulse pretty easily.

Oak Ridge actually put out a pretty good report on EMP a few years back and it's publicly accessible. Interesting read. And your other points are perfectly valid.

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>>34908167
So SIG will be using electric triggers from now on?

>>34916029
string on a gun? But that's a machine gun

>>34908922
>that image
Lol

>>34916024
Oh yeah those grill starters are so light and crisp

>>34916235
Don't put a backup trigger on your gun or the ATF will come shoot your pupper

>>34914347
Electrical resistance generates heat. A capacitor dumps voltage into an electrode with a ton of resistance that gets hot and pops a primer.

How did you think electronically fired guns work(ed)...?

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>>34908162
>>34908167
>>34908181
>>34908220
>>34908258

>These same people complain about the lack of innovation in firearms today

>>34916845
Generally, like in the case of electrically fired naval guns and aircraft cannon, the round is fired by a motor driving an action that hits the primer on a round with a firing pin. Electronic ignition is usually much slower than chemical in most cases, so there would be a delay between pulling the trigger and firing. There are ways around it, but they tend to be expensive and increase complexity.

>>34917059
Electrically fired guns are typically fired by a bridgewire style primer. There is no moving firing pin so they have less locktime.

>>34908152
>>34908330
>>34908990
There is literally no reason to do electronic triggers without electronic ignition. With a electronic trigger, you already cannot fire without a battery. You already have the primary disadvantage of electronic ignition and are giving up its advantages for no reason.

With electronic ignition you get basically non-existant locktime, non-thermally sensitive primers and overall safer cartridges, no motion or harmonics from the mechanics. You also get to keep the perfectly consistent trigger pulls and totally free trigger group placement.

You its also significantly more complicated - a firing pin has to move for one, while electronic ignition can be as simple as closing a circuit.

>>34908233
At that point make a pepper box with electronic ignition. You gain nothing from the trigger and are still limited by the cylinder. Pointless