Was there a period where black powder metallic cartridges used

>>34842492
A ball wouldn't benefit for anything than being a ball.

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>>34842492
>brass shotgun shells loaded with lead shot
>shot are circular pellets
>therefore ball

sure thing OP

By the time mettalic cartridges came around people had already realized that longer bullets with faster rifling usually flew better. There is information for "gallery loads" for some cartridges that use a ball, probably for reduced recoil. Whether these are historically accurate or not, I don't know.

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>>34842492
There were these things, necked up .303 using a round ball.

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>>34842492
not really, ball was already obsolete before metallic cartridges became common. it was used for parlor gun rounds like flobert and this one though

Wait wait wait
I thought "ball ammo" was another term for FMJ, not musket-style round balls.

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>>34842492
.58 snider

>>34842794
It's both.

>>34842623
>>34842657
>>34842923
Why would they even use ball ammo for parlor guns? How do they reduce recoil?

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Round ball loads were common before the advent of shotgun slugs. The Marbles Game Getter also used shot and round ball .44-40 loads.

Here are examples of the .44-40 and .44 Game Getter ball cartridges.

>>34843950
hey drake, you have any examples of multi-ball cartridges?

I've seen a cartridge board with a cross-sectioned copper, inside primed, 45-70 with multiple (3) .45 caliber balls stacked inside it

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>>34842623
There were round ball loads for the US Krag rifle. Single ball loads were for short-range training and double-ball loads were 'guard cartridges'.

On the left is a standard .30-40 cartridge, center is a single ball training cartridge and right is a double ball guard cartridge.

>>34842492
Yes ball ammo benefits from rifling

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>>34843981
Multi-ball cartridges I have include boxer and benet primed .45-70, .30 Krag (which I posted above), .45 Colt, 6.5mm Carcano, .357 Magnum, .38 Special and .321 Greener.

I took this photo before I came into a Benet primed multi-ball, so I need to update it.

>>34844059
hey did you know that your photos are used on Wikipedia?

>>34842794
Not when the FMJ is pointy, because then it's not a ball.

.223 is FMJ, .45 fmj is also ball. 9mm fmj is also ball.

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>>34844141
Yes, I added them to a number of articles which were lacking photos.

>>34844204
In a military sense, any standard ammunition (i.e.- not tracer, armor piercing, explosive, incendiary, blank, etc) is referred to as 'Ball'.

>>34844259
you have any information regarding semi-smokeless powder?
Also anything about early Russian smokeless cartridges being loaded with BP because of problems manufacturing smokeless powder domestically?

>>34844259
>In a military sense, any standard ammunition (i.e.- not tracer, armor piercing, explosive, incendiary, blank, etc) is referred to as 'Ball'.
I appreciate that, thank you.

>>34844059
Dude, OP here.

That's super helpful. Thanks, /k/omrade!

Here's a question: would a theoretical fictional world with metallic cartridges and (literal) ball ammo need to have precision machining?

>>34844553
To machine firearms, yes. Why wouldn't it?

>>34844553
Cartridges require precision machining to reliably chamber and extract. We could have never discovered rifling, and still be using smoothbore right now and we would still need precision machining for our smoothbore AR platform.

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>>34844331
That was the case with Austrian and Swiss cartridges in the early 1890's. I haven't heard that about the Russian cartridges but the changeover point for Russia was around 1889-1890. The Berdan rifles were the last to use blackpowder charges.

>>34844879
I've read that early x54r cartridges were loaded with BP as a stop-gap measure until they had their smokeless powder plant functioning
https://books.google.com/books?id=7n6Cg9znFrUC&pg=PA357&lpg=PA357&dq=Dmitri+Mendeleev++gun+powder&source=bl&ots=_FSVnxQ64H&sig=EaQrk77ccjG4Whhg2eSq4JVRQz0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jiuoUMn2KOWsyAH4koH4Cg#v=onepage&q=Dmitri%20Mendeleev%20%20gun%20powder&f=false

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>>34842492
Metallic cartridges were invented a lot earlier than you'd think, if you count hunting pieces hand crafted for the insanely wealthy

>>34842492
as i understand it the mini ball came about long before cartridges and by the time cartridges became popular most if not all guns used bell style bullets.

>>34844331
It was early 303 Brit that was blackpowder. The Swiss semi smokeless was a meme based on fucked up translations.
The Austrians used ammonpluver, which is definitely a semi smokeless powder which substituted saltpeter and sulfer for pure ammonium nitrate. It eats brass, thus requiring internally lacquered cases, it is also temperature sensitive, becoming explosive should the cartidges be heated above 90 degrees Fahrenheit, and it requires strong primers or a booster charge of true smokeless to ignite properly.

>>34844594
>>34844611
Well, I'm a fa/tg/uy and I want to justify metallic cartridges that are cheap enough for regular dudes to buy that could be manufactured with limited, or at least human-powered, technology.

Gunsmiths in the 19th century made some pretty complicated shit in the quest for a working 'automatic' firearm, right?

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>>34845595
given that blowback is the simplest automatic system there is the main thing preventing it with early firearm development is case head support, given that most early cartridges were balloon head style stamped cartridges that required a lot of support

also cheap rimmed cartridges can be made via the 'cup-and-washer' style method, pic related

>>34845595
Nothing stopping some nikola tesla of firearms from making a bespoke semi-auto during flintlock times.

Reproducing them cheaply is a completely different story.

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>>34843668
This is why .22lr ball loads fired from a short brass case or a muzzle loader. pic related.
A 5lb bag of #4 buckshot goes a looong way,

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>>34848452
check the date.

>>34842492
Plenty of black powder rifles shot round balls, but they really do better with slower twist rifling (1 in 40" to 60", depending on caliber) than bullets.

>>34845595
The first model of the Maxim gun was blackpowder.

>>34848634
A revolving cannon is not semi auto.