Why aren't bottlenecked pistol cartridges more popular?

>>34820402
Because fast, small calibers are niche rounds in today's market. There just isn't much of a demand for them.

>>34820402
The 7.62x25 was a total failure, the Tokarev was hated by soldiers due to it's lack of power. Fast and light works with a rifle round like 5.56, going fast enough and with enough energy to fragment and/or make a massive temporary cavity. With pistol rounds you want more mass to improve penetration and hollow point expansion, and so a bullet at least 9mm in diameter seems to be ideal. This is why .357 Sig is so effective, and the only reason that's not popular is because it's not a big enough improvement over the competition to bother.

>>34820761
Everything is niche until wolf or tulammo makes it.

>>34820811
What I'm seeing says 7.62x25 can have 100 more foot pounds than 9mm.

Seems good for penetration or extending the range.

>>34820863
But they do, even red army standard sells Tok ammo

>>34820811
You're fucking retarded.

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>>34820896
Energy is great, but it's not necessarily a measurement of effectiveness. A super light and fast bullet (say, 20 grains at 3000 FPS) will have plenty of energy, but shoot it at someone and it'll barely penetrate, dumping it's energy into the first few inches of tissue, and failing to pass through barriers like bone. You need mass to punch deep into someone.

>>34820912
Not an argument kid.

>>34820811

Nigga are you high?

>>34820811
source: my ass

>>34820935
I think 7.62x25 will penetrate bone but obviously I've never tested.

>>34820811
This is all false except the part about .357 sig.

>>34820761
More like their market is banned. Full auto and armor piercing. No civilians should be allowed to have them. Even America, land of freedom, agrees that freedom here should step away for safety.

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>>34820935
Not the guy you're replying to but that's like the exact opposite of how it works isn't it? A smaller projectile should retain more energy, since it has a smaller surface area for energy to be transferred. A larger projectile with more surface area for energy transfer would dump all it's kinetic energy and penetrate less.

I get what you're saying and partly agree about wanting a larger diameter bullet but for a different reason. You WANT a bullet to dump its energy, thus creating a wound channel wider than the bullet itself. A smaller projectile would just zip through and not transfer as much force, while a larger one would come to a halt, having dispersed all of it's kinetic energy into your target. It has it's ups and downs, various calibers with assorted energy and penetration values are better at different things which is one of the reasons there's so much controversy.

I'm not calling you a retard or anything, just operating on common-sense logic and a pretty basic understanding of physics. If there's some ballistic math-wizardry that says I'm wrong, so be it, the numbers don't lie.

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>>34820402
Hey I'm a thing, too!

>>34820811
>the Tokarev was hated by soldiers due to it's lack of power.
During WWII soviet soldiers found that .45 ACP Thompson can't penetrate standard winter clothes. In the 90s Russian criminal praised TT as most powerful psitol ever existed. Much more effective then colt or makarov ( last is airsoft tier). TT makes people dead, period.

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>>34820811
>i dont like you as a person

>>34821069
It was just an example to show that energy and effectiveness aren't the same thing. A pretty shitty example, but there you go. You're right, the Tokarev had plenty of penetration but skinny bullets don't make for impressive wounds.

>>34821089
>The opinion of retarded criminals and conscripts matters more than modern scientific testing
The .45 can penetrate thick layers of clothing, it has tons of penetration, and criminals liked the Tokarev in part because it penetrated lots of Soviet era body armour. I don't recall ever saying the round couldn't "make people dead".

>>34821133
45 loses velocity fast so outside of few hundred yards enough thick clothing could absolutely be an issue.

>>34821089
>45 couldn't pen winter clothes.
Maybe if they were frozen stiff at 400yd.

>>34821149
>>34821184
This. Extended ranges and multiple layers of thick clothing, outside layers iced over.

Not what 45 was made for.

>>34821133
>The .45 can penetrate thick layers of clothing
Soviet vatnik it can't. Very tough stuff, proto body armor, later in Korea American found that even their M1 carbines have problems with it.

>>34821082
That's just tokarev for babies though

>>34820935
wow you're dumb, speed kills, and 7.62x25 rapes IIIA plates.
https://youtu.be/Nr6h44Pu4sM?t=6m

>>34820896
>extend range
What's the point. None of your soldiers will never be able to hit a beer can past 15m anyway. Ballisticly, you've got 100m of useful range tho easy

The pistol isn't the problem, it's the people shooting

>>34820863
Russia is b& from importing specifically 7.62x25 for some reason

>>34821050
Not really what I was getting at. Small fast rounds are pretty much obsolete when you can use short barreled rifles, an intermediate rifle round has a more flexible use than say a tokarev or a fn 5.7

>>34821511
That's what the tokarev round was based on noob